dogfight / flight
stephen redinger
Since we have Indies for our engineers, there is
dog-fight time every thursday after 6pm.
As our name says we are working at an institute
of the University of Stuttgart, the
Institute of Airplane Construction. Many of us have
pilot licences, and they say, that flight is one of the
best flight simulators on desktops.
BUT especially in the dogfight mode it lacks some
essential functions which makes it difficult to perform
a real dogfight:
1. Radar:
=========
The radar of a fighter aircraft doesn't scan 360 degrees round
but more or less 120 degrees (+-60) right/left and up/down. It
provides the distance and the hight of the other aircraft(s).
It can't look at the backside of the aircraft and so the pilot
can't see, if there is an enemy behind - but there is an
radar detector, which detects incoming foreign radar signals from
behind. The radar screen also displays the range of the own
weapons (more #3).
2. Groups:
==========
There should be the possibility to form groups. Now it's almost
impossible to make two groups. There is no sign on the radar
wether the airplane infront is enemy or friend.
3. Weapons:
===========
The rockets should be replaced by AAMRAM (middle ranged
anti aircraft missles, guided by own radar). But for a while
the AAMRAM gets information from the aircraft's radar. So the radar
keeps locked on to the target.
When a Sidewinder (AIM-9) is fired, it doesn't need the
guidance of the airplane's radar anymore, because it's guided
by an infra-red detector. A sidewinder has only a short range (4-6 miles).
The radar musn't be locked on to the target.
The canon has only a range of some hundred yards, and doesn't need
a radar at all - now you can't fire the canon, when the radar is locked.
4. Breaks:
==========
Where are the breaks of the wheels? Every aircraft has breaks, they
are activated by stepping on both pedals of the rudder-fin at the same time.
5. Few fuel:
============
All the aircrafts have few fuel on board. In our case many of the
dogfights last between 5 and 10 minutes, and in many cases one has to abort
the fight, because of zero gas. Then he's knocked down by the other, when
he is refuelling. In the dogfight mode the aircrafts should have fuel for
half an hour with 50% boost.
6. Russian airplanes:
=====================
The flight performance, the weapons and all the other
things of some russian aircrafts are well known in the
west, since the german reunification, when germany gained
some MIG-29s. You should include the MIG-29 and Su-27.
I hope you'll include our proposals into the next version
of flight/dog-fight.
Regards,
/*************************************************************************
Stephen Redinger
Sys. Man. UNIX
Institut f"ur Flugzeugbau
Univerist"at Stuttgart
Germany
email: redi...@indy2.luftfahrt.uni-stuttgart.de
*************************************************************************/
Peter Jackson
redi...@indy2.luftfahrt.uni-stuttgart.de writes of the need for additional
features in `dogfight', including:
> 1. Radar:
> 2. Groups:
> 3. Weapons:
> 4. Breaks:
> 5. Few fuel:
> 6. Russian airplanes:
...I never cease to wonder why SGI have never increased the capability of
this simulator - I realise that they are are predominately a h/w rather
than a s/w house but `dogfight' is potentially a very good demonstrator
for the hardware. It has not fundamentally changed over the last N years.
It is possible to purchase the source for dogfight from SGI .... Perhaps
Herr Redinger should code up and resell an advanced version!
--
Peter Jackson
Lyndon Nerenberg
>...I never cease to wonder why SGI have never increased the capability of
>this simulator - I realise that they are are predominately a h/w rather
>than a s/w house but `dogfight' is potentially a very good demonstrator
>for the hardware. It has not fundamentally changed over the last N years.
What's *really* missing is support for stereo goggles on the Indy! I know,
fixed in 6.0, right? :-)
--lyndon
Rob Mace
In article <2jnliq$18...@info2.rus.uni-stuttgart.de>, redi...@indy2.luftfahrt.uni-stuttgart.de writes:
> Hi SGI-folks!
>
> Since we have Indies for our engineers, there is
> dog-fight time every thursday after 6pm.
> As our name says we are working at an institute
> of the University of Stuttgart, the
> Institute of Airplane Construction. Many of us have
> pilot licences, and they say, that flight is one of the
> best flight simulators on desktops.
> BUT especially in the dogfight mode it lacks some
> essential functions which makes it difficult to perform
> a real dogfight:
If you mean realistic, then I agree. But a realistic simulation does not
always make for the best game. It would be realistic if I started blacking
out the screen when you have been pulling too many Gs for too long. Or
redded it out for too many negative Gs. But I think it would detract from
dog's playability as a game.
> 1. Radar:
> =========
> The radar of a fighter aircraft doesn't scan 360 degrees round
> but more or less 120 degrees (+-60) right/left and up/down. It
> ...
Think of the radar as info broadcast from a controlling aircraft
or ground controller.
> 2. Groups:
> ==========
> There should be the possibility to form groups. Now it's almost
> impossible to make two groups. There is no sign on the radar
> wether the airplane infront is enemy or friend.
To be accurate, I am not sure what IFF capabilities there are in
current fighters. I know they are equipped with IFF transmitters
but also understand that they may be shot off during combat to
avoid them being used as a targeting system. I know some radars
can identify aircraft by counting turbine blades. I do not know
how much this type of thing is in use yet.
So if realism is what you want I am not sure that increasing IFF
capability is the way to go.
> 3. Weapons:
> ===========
> The rockets should be replaced by AAMRAM (middle ranged
> anti aircraft missles, guided by own radar). But for a while
> the AAMRAM gets information from the aircraft's radar. So the radar
> ...
Yes, I know all about how the weapon systems are not that real. But
to be realistic would involve a lot more then the weapon systems. It
would also involve counter measures.
This is an area that really concerns me about keeping the gaming aspects
of dog fun. Personally I like to dogfight with canons only. The most
fun I have had is in big games where everyone has agreed to use canons
only. I have thought a lot about adding more realistic weapons but am
concerned about what it would do to game play.
What I have decided to do is multiple arenas of play. The idea is that
you would select a place to dogfight and that place would determine
what rules were used. For example one world would be like the current,
one would allow cannons only, one would have realistic weapon systems,
etc. There would also be limits to what planes could be used where.
Probably I would allow customization so that you can mix and match what
you want locally.
> 4. Breaks:
> ==========
> Where are the breaks of the wheels? Every aircraft has breaks, they
> are activated by stepping on both pedals of the rudder-fin at the same time.
Breaks could probably be added. The limit here is key board keys in
convenient locations. I would probably fix it so that most planes do
not have thrust reversers at the same time.
> 5. Few fuel:
> ============
> All the aircrafts have few fuel on board. In our case many of the
> dogfights last between 5 and 10 minutes, and in many cases one has to abort
> the fight, because of zero gas. Then he's knocked down by the other, when
> he is refuelling. In the dogfight mode the aircrafts should have fuel for
> half an hour with 50% boost.
I believe that when the original author set the fuel consumption rates he
set them based linearly off of fuel consumption rates for 100% after burners.
I believe that the fuel consumption is about right for full afterburner
power settings. But for full dry power the rates are wrong because they
are just computed linearly. I may look into this at some point. If anyone
has some good data about jet fuel consumption along the power curve I would
be happy to see it.
> 6. Russian airplanes:
> =====================
> The flight performance, the weapons and all the other
> things of some russian aircrafts are well known in the
> west, since the german reunification, when germany gained
> some MIG-29s. You should include the MIG-29 and Su-27.
Geometric models. That is my biggest limiter to adding new planes. And
even when I have gotten a decent starting point model like I did for the
f18 it takes tons of time to get it converted, fix all the wholes, and add
the extra bits like lights, missiles, movable control surfaces, and landing
gear.
If you have a good MIG-29 or Su-27 geometric model around a thousand
polygons I would be happy to add it into flight.
> I hope you'll include our proposals into the next version
> of flight/dog-fight.
Flight/dog is not my main job. It is mostly a spare time project for me.
Where as I am always glad to hear feed back, I can't promise anything.
However, you will be seeing a few changes in the version that will be
coming with Irix 5.2. I have combined the two versions of flight that
had diverged between high end and low end graphics. Flight now decides
how to draw based on the graphics version that it is running on. In doing
this I have combined in a number of features that were in only one version
or the other. The radar program is also back for those of you that can
remember back to the 3000 days. I hope you enjoy it.
Rob Mace
Ron Cole/DCOM
I have extended dog/flight to incorporate WWI thru Star wars.
Any interest. I can e-mail some source code for a price(cheap).
It might need some changes for some of the newer machines.
RNC
Richard Lefebvre
How about putting more control on the mouse. At least cannon fire
maybe. My idea of configuration would be:
Alt-left-mouse-button : Cannon
Alt-middle-mouse-button: Sidewinder
Alt-right-mouse-button : rocket
Shift-left-mouse-button : increase flaps
Shift-middle-mouse-button: increase thrust
Shift-right-mouse-button : increase spoilers
Ctrl-left-mouse-button : decrease flaps
Ctrl-middle-mouse-button: decrease thrust
Ctrl-right-mouse-button : decrease spoilers
and leave the rudder control to normal mouse buttons.
Or make them user configurable. Me, I allways have to
look where the keys are, and being shutdown ;-) because
of that.
Rick