MIDI Recorder/Player

[J.B. Wood]

Hello, all. Has anyone on the ng designed and/or built a stand alone
MIDI recorder/player using a Raspberry Pi?. Standalone MIDI
player/recorder (with elementary editing functions) boxes were available
in the `80's from Brother, Yamaha and Roland but were ostensibly
supplanted by software running on PCs (with a MIDI interface) and later
I-Pads and Smart phones. You can still find the old boxes on flea bay
but the storage medium is floppy disk rather then flash drive and/or SD
card.

I've got an old Technics digital piano (model SX-PX6) with MIDI ports
but no built-in capability to record, store, and play. I don't need a
full-blown DAW package, just something to record and play, IOW live MIDI
without subsequent editing. Organ manufacturers like Allen make exactly
the kind of box I have in mind but at a price. A UK company,
http://www.sdmidicontroller.com also offers exactly what I'm after but I
think one could be constructed much less expensively. The advantages of
a dedicated processor box should be in its size and fast
(non-noticeable) boot-up time. (I keep waiting for such a project in
Nuts & Volts Mag). Your comment is most certainly appreciated. Sincerely,
--
J. B. Wood e-mail: arl_1...@hotmail.com

[Mike Fleming]

In article <nm62t2$jd9$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, "J.B. Wood"

<arl_1...@hotmail.com> writes:

> Hello, all. Has anyone on the ng designed and/or built a stand alone
> MIDI recorder/player using a Raspberry Pi?.

Not me, but you might want to investigate Rosegarden.

--
Mike Fleming

[Robert Riches]

On 2016-07-14, Roger Bell_West <roger+cs...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:

> On 2016-07-13, J.B. Wood wrote:
>>Hello, all. Has anyone on the ng designed and/or built a stand alone
>>MIDI recorder/player using a Raspberry Pi?.
>

> Easiest approach is surely a USB-MIDI interface, as long as Linux
> drivers are available for it.

Rats, I can't find the packaging. Perhaps I threw it out in a
fit of housecleaning. Several years ago, I bought a USB-MIDI
interface at a guitar store, and it worked perfectly. Based
on that huge :-) statistical sample, odds would seem to be at
least not hideously bad that Linux would drive a given model.

HTH

--
Robert Riches
spamt...@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

[J.B. Wood]

On 07/13/2016 08:01 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> 5-pin DIN for In and Out? Trickiest thing will be setting up the
> communications -- standard 5-pin MIDI is 8N1 at some odd 31.25kbps. Not
> many UARTs include that clock rate (While the Atari ST had built in MIDI
> ports, the Amiga serial port was designed to support MIDI speeds so only an
> adapter from RS-232 to MIDI was required)
>

Hello, and it isn't a problem at least for a laptop via a USB port. I
can presently use MIDI sequencing software on either Linux or PC
platforms and record or play to the digital piano via an M-Audio
MIDISPORT USB-to-MIDI interface. MIDISPORT support is already available
in many Linux distros but for Windows 7 you have to download and install
the driver. The simplest way on Linux to play a MIDI file is via
"aplaymidi", albeit one MIDI file at a time (i.e. no playlist) and with
no pause feature.

Newer musical instruments provide for MIDI-over-USB so maybe that would
address the issue you raised. The "SD MiDi Controller" box from that UK
company I previously mentioned has DIN MIDI In/Out. It's available in
kit form and there are numerous photos of the circuit board and
components but I can't tell what kind of processor (Raspberry Pi?) is
being employed and no schematic appears to be available. Sincerely,

[Pete]

[Hi JB... Glad to see you took our advice to check this group (:-)]

In article <slrnnoe15j.3...@one.localnet>,

Robert Riches <spamt...@jacob21819.net> wrote:
>On 2016-07-14, Roger Bell_West <roger+cs...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:
>> On 2016-07-13, J.B. Wood wrote:
>>>Hello, all. Has anyone on the ng designed and/or built a stand alone
>>>MIDI recorder/player using a Raspberry Pi?.
>>
>> Easiest approach is surely a USB-MIDI interface, as long as Linux
>> drivers are available for it.
>
>Rats, I can't find the packaging. Perhaps I threw it out in a
>fit of housecleaning. Several years ago, I bought a USB-MIDI
>interface at a guitar store, and it worked perfectly. Based
>on that huge :-) statistical sample, odds would seem to be at
>least not hideously bad that Linux would drive a given model.
>

Any "Standard Compliant" USB-MIDI should work in any Linux.
(As I remember Yamaha is notorious for not being compliant,
but e.g. any current M-Audio device should be fine.)

Just for total verification, I did a quickie experiment:
connected my Axiom to my Pi through a powered hub (not
sure whether the Pi would have enough oomph for a direct
plug in), and ran aseqdump. Displayed incoming events
a treat!

However. To do the test, I had to unplug my (text) keyboard.
Trying to get both K/B and MIDI working at once through
the bub was more of a headache. One or the other seemed
to be inert. With a *lot* of unplugging and replugging
into the hub, I finally got both, but it was a struggle.
I assume bad connectors (not a hub I've used for a while)
but I can't be sure.

-- Pete --

[Pete]

In article <upkdobl8m3bpbfgt1...@4ax.com>,
Dennis Lee Bieber <wlf...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 14:56:35 -0400, "J.B. Wood" <arl_1...@hotmail.com>
>declaimed the following:

>
>
>>I've got an old Technics digital piano (model SX-PX6) with MIDI ports
>

> 5-pin DIN for In and Out? Trickiest thing will be setting up the
>communications -- standard 5-pin MIDI is 8N1 at some odd 31.25kbps. Not
>many UARTs include that clock rate (While the Atari ST had built in MIDI
>ports, the Amiga serial port was designed to support MIDI speeds so only an
>adapter from RS-232 to MIDI was required)

Huh. That could be a problem for DIN connections. In the old days
I did just that -- made an opto-isolated serial port box that gave
me fine MIDI on the Amiga, and it never struck me that the 31.5 Kbps
was non-standard. If that's not available on the Pi. it makes things
a little hard. USB may be the only reasonable way.

-- Pete --

[Pete]

In article <nm9gnl$1brb$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,

Well, I did some digging, and it seems to be perfectly possible to
set the Pi to 31.25kbps [sorry for the typo above.] See for example:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=19908&start=25

Maybe I'd better dig out my old Amiga MIDI box and see if I can
adapt it!

-- Pete --

[alister]

it will probably be using either a 1488/1489 chip pair or a MAX232 to
perform the necessary rs232 to TTL level shifting
removing these chips (& linking the input to output pins) should be all
that is needed.



--
[I plan] to see, hear, touch, and destroy everything in my path,
including beets, rutabagas, and most random vegetables, but excluding
yams,
as I am absolutely terrified of yams...
Actually, I think my fear of yams began in my early youth, when
many
of my young comrades pelted me with same for singing songs of far-off
lands
and deep blue seas in a language closely resembling that of the common
sow.
My psychosis was further impressed into my soul as I reached adolescence,
when, while skipping through a field of yams, light-heartedly tossing
flowers
into the stratosphere, a great yam-picking machine tore through the
fields,
pursuing me to the edge of the great plantation, where I escaped by diving
into a great ditch filled with a mixture of water and pig manure, which
may
explain my tendency to scream, "Here come the Martians! Hide the eggs!"
every
time I have pork. But I digress. The fact remains that I cannot
rationally
deal with yams, and pigs are terrible conversationalists.

[Pete]

In article <n81iz.895505$jB.2...@fx34.am4>,

alister <aliste...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 07:24:08 +0000, Pete wrote:
>
>> Well, I did some digging, and it seems to be perfectly possible to set
>> the Pi to 31.25kbps [sorry for the typo above.] See for example:
>>
>> https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=19908&start=25
>>
>> Maybe I'd better dig out my old Amiga MIDI box and see if I can adapt
>> it!
>>
>> -- Pete --
>
>it will probably be using either a 1488/1489 chip pair or a MAX232 to
>perform the necessary rs232 to TTL level shifting
>removing these chips (& linking the input to output pins) should be all
>that is needed.
>

...chip?... necessary?...rs232 to TTL?... Ha! Not on my workbench! (:-)(:-)
Had a 6N138 optoisolator and a couple of 2N3708 transistors. Worked
perfectly.

Remember that MIDI itself is a 5mA current loop. It doesn't really
care about voltages (as long as you're careful not to apply them in
a wrong place!). And the Amiga RS232 UART seemed quite happy to run
with +5..0V rather than the specified ~+/-5V or so. So with suitable
dropping resistors I could run everything from the +12 supplied by
the RS232 connector.

I pulled the schematic from my files, and it looks as if it should
just need a new set of resistors to work from the 3 and 5V supplies
in the Pi.

-- Pete --

[Pete]

In article <nmbhli$cui$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Pete <neve...@GOODEVEca.net> wrote:
>In article <n81iz.895505$jB.2...@fx34.am4>,
>alister <aliste...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 07:24:08 +0000, Pete wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I did some digging, and it seems to be perfectly possible to set
>>> the Pi to 31.25kbps [sorry for the typo above.] See for example:
>>>
>>> https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=19908&start=25
>>>
>>> Maybe I'd better dig out my old Amiga MIDI box and see if I can adapt
>>> it!
>

>I pulled the schematic from my files, and it looks as if it should
>just need a new set of resistors to work from the 3 and 5V supplies
>in the Pi.
>

Uhh. Nope. I forgot that RS232 levels are sort of the inverse of TTL.
A positive voltage is "zero". I can just take the inverter out of the
MIDI IN side, but the output will need an extra inverter (or a non-
inverting amp) to get things right.

-- Pete --

[gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339]

"Hils" <hi...@saynotospam.net> wrote in message
news:nmd2kb$3ks$1...@gioia.aioe.org...

> On 14/07/16 04:19, Robert Riches wrote:
>> On 2016-07-14, Roger Bell_West <roger+cs...@nospam.firedrake.org>
>> wrote:
>>> On 2016-07-13, J.B. Wood wrote:
>>>> Hello, all. Has anyone on the ng designed and/or built a stand alone
>>>> MIDI recorder/player using a Raspberry Pi?.
>>>
>>> Easiest approach is surely a USB-MIDI interface, as long as Linux
>>> drivers are available for it.
>>
>> Rats, I can't find the packaging. Perhaps I threw it out in a
>> fit of housecleaning. Several years ago, I bought a USB-MIDI
>> interface at a guitar store, and it worked perfectly. Based
>> on that huge :-) statistical sample, odds would seem to be at
>> least not hideously bad that Linux would drive a given model.
>

> Same here with a basic USB-MIDI interface.
>
> The Scarlett 2i4, both its MIDI interface and its (very nice) audio
> interface, is plug-and-play with Debian. I haven't tried it with a Pi but
> I'd be surprised if it didn't work (though the Pi would probably struggle
> with duplex audio).

RU coming back to uk.radio.amateur to help raise the tone?

[Brian Reay]

On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 22:35:09 +0100, gareth G4SDW GQRP #3339 wrote:



> RU coming back to uk.radio.amateur to help raise the tone?

If you want to raise the tone of uk.radio.amateur why don't you stop
posting there ?

[Jim Diamond]

On 2016-07-14 at 23:01 ADT, Pete <neve...@GoodeveCa.net> wrote:
>
> [Hi JB... Glad to see you took our advice to check this group (:-)]
>
> In article <slrnnoe15j.3...@one.localnet>,
> Robert Riches <spamt...@jacob21819.net> wrote:

>>Rats, I can't find the packaging. Perhaps I threw it out in a
>>fit of housecleaning. Several years ago, I bought a USB-MIDI
>>interface at a guitar store, and it worked perfectly. Based
>>on that huge :-) statistical sample, odds would seem to be at
>>least not hideously bad that Linux would drive a given model.

> Any "Standard Compliant" USB-MIDI should work in any Linux.
> (As I remember Yamaha is notorious for not being compliant,
> but e.g. any current M-Audio device should be fine.)

Funny you should say that. A few years ago the Yamaha and Edirol
USB-MIDI interfaces worked without a hitch on Linux, but the M-Audio
ones needed firmware downloaded to them to work. And, at the time,
getting one's hands on the firmware and convincing Linux to download
the firmware to the device when you plugged it in was more trouble
than it is worth.

I've also bought some dirt-cheap interfaces from places like
www.dx.com. Happily, all of the ones I bought seem to work fine.

Cheers.

Jim

[Pete]

In article <slrnnp4v6e.4c...@jdiamond-nb2.acadiau.ca>,

Jim Diamond <Jim.D...@deletethis.AcadiaU.ca> wrote:
>On 2016-07-14 at 23:01 ADT, Pete <neve...@GoodeveCa.net> wrote:
>
>> Any "Standard Compliant" USB-MIDI should work in any Linux.
>> (As I remember Yamaha is notorious for not being compliant,
>> but e.g. any current M-Audio device should be fine.)
>
>Funny you should say that. A few years ago the Yamaha and Edirol
>USB-MIDI interfaces worked without a hitch on Linux, but the M-Audio
>ones needed firmware downloaded to them to work.

Yeah. Earlier M-Audio ("MidiMan") stuff was definitely *non*-compliant!
Yamaha probably worked because Clemens Ladisch wrote the drivers to
suit. A few years back I complained on comp.music.midi about Yamaha
being non-standard, and got an extensive reply back from Clemens,
detailing all the idiosyncracies of the various manufacturers.
He did say, though, that "Yamaha devices are _easy_". Apparently just
the descriptors are non standard. Edirol was Roland -- who *wrote*
the standard -- so they ought to work!

-- Pete --

[Big Bad Bob]

On 07/13/16 11:56, J.B. Wood so wittily quipped:

I investigated this a while back with Fluidsynth and a USB interface,
but (unfortunately) Fluidsynth requires too many floating point
operations and chokes in the performance (it won't even do simple MIDI
files without effects, for example). Maybe the latest/fastest RPi will
work? I only have a model 1 'B' and a model 2 to experiment with.

[J.B. Wood]

On 08/18/2016 11:37 AM, Big Bad Bob wrote:

> I investigated this a while back with Fluidsynth and a USB interface,
> but (unfortunately) Fluidsynth requires too many floating point
> operations and chokes in the performance (it won't even do simple MIDI
> files without effects, for example). Maybe the latest/fastest RPi will
> work? I only have a model 1 'B' and a model 2 to experiment with.
>

Hello, and when you refer to Fluidsynth are you talking about something
other than a soundfont? What I was talking about in my OP was a
standalone Raspberry Pi based simple MIDI sequencer (recorder/player)
where the MIDI stream is being rendered by a digital piano not a
soundfont+soundcard in a computer. Timidity++ is a nice MIDI file
player (no record capability) but AFAIK it interfaces directly with a
soundfont and cannot output a MIDI stream to the input port of, say, a
USB-to-MIDI interface (e.g. an M-Audio MIDISPORT). My interest here is
solo piano and the best IMO "one program that does it all" is the
PC-based freeware "MidiPiano" that can construct and play MIDI file
playlists, display a piano keyboard with the notes being played and can
redirect its MIDI output to the port of a MIDI interface as well as use
an internal soundfont. It can also accept input from a MIDI interface.
A decent digital audio workstation (DAW) package can do all these things
but goes well beyond just the record/play real time capabilities I'm
after. Sincerely,

[Big Bad Bob]

On 08/18/16 09:30, J.B. Wood so wittily quipped:

oh, ok. you want a direct MIDI player from MIDI file to MIDI output
port, and MIDI recorder to a MIDI file then...

saw THIS list, might help:
http://linux-sound.org/midi.html

this one looks promising if you want a GUI:
http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/

[J.B. Wood]

On 09/01/2016 01:43 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:

> oh, ok. you want a direct MIDI player from MIDI file to MIDI output
> port, and MIDI recorder to a MIDI file then...
>
> saw THIS list, might help:
> http://linux-sound.org/midi.html
>
> this one looks promising if you want a GUI:
> http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/
>

Hello, and thank you for pointing out those URLs. Again, these Linux
apps are designed to run on PCs. They might also work OK on a r-pi but
you'd probably still have to hook up a display/monitor of appropriate
screen size. As I stated in a previous post my ideal would be an r-pi
based device with the functionality and footprint of the "SD MiDi
Controller" seen at www.sdmidicontroller.com but at much less cost.

[Martin Gregorie]

On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 06:30:50 -0400, J.B. Wood wrote:


> They might also work OK on a r-pi but
> you'd probably still have to hook up a display/monitor of appropriate
> screen size.
>

Two points:

- you can run GUI programs on a headless RPI by enabling X11 forwarding
on it provided that you logged in the the RPi from a system that is
running a graphical X.11 server

- Adafruit sell 2.8" and 3.5" touch-sensitive TFT colour displays.
Last time I looked they are round about £35. Rapid Electronics,
http://www.rapidonline.com/ are Adafruit agents in the UK.

One of these may do what you want.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[J.B. Wood]

On 09/02/2016 07:00 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:

> - you can run GUI programs on a headless RPI by enabling X11 forwarding
> on it provided that you logged in the the RPi from a system that is
> running a graphical X.11 server
>
> - Adafruit sell 2.8" and 3.5" touch-sensitive TFT colour displays.
> Last time I looked they are round about £35. Rapid Electronics,
> http://www.rapidonline.com/ are Adafruit agents in the UK.
>
> One of these may do what you want.
>
>

Hello, and those solutions diverge from my objective. I want to
construct a small (something you could throw into a backpack),
fast-booting, stand-alone, wall wart/battery powered box. It doesn't
require a display of anything more than, say, a 2-line LCD display of
about 25 characters/line to indicate the name of the MIDI file being
played/recorded. Sincerely,

[alister]

you may need to investigate to see if there are any midi library's you
can use to roll you own (python or perl should be good for this).
the pi gpio is easily capable of driving a 2x16 display


--
The kernel license has expired

[Martin Gregorie]

On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 08:18:46 -0400, J.B. Wood wrote:

> Hello, and those solutions diverge from my objective. I want to
> construct a small (something you could throw into a backpack),
> fast-booting, stand-alone, wall wart/battery powered box. It doesn't
> require a display of anything more than, say, a 2-line LCD display of
> about 25 characters/line to indicate the name of the MIDI file being
> played/recorded. Sincerely,
>

Take a look at the Adafruit displays before dismissing them entirely.
They are uncased and designed to mount on an RPi: the result is the same
shape as any of the RPis except the Pi zero and around twice the
thickness: if fitted to a Pi zero the result will be about the size of
the display and maybe 5-9mm thicker. In either case it should be easy
enough to find a suitable plastic or metal box to enclose it. Run that
lot off a Li-ion battery boxed with a USB power outlet, aka a 'portable
phone charger'.

Besides, using a graphical display may let you try a wider range of music
playing/streaming programs.

[Rob Morley]

On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 13:01:03 -0000 (UTC)
Martin Gregorie <mar...@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:

> Besides, using a graphical display may let you try a wider range of
> music playing/streaming programs.

That's not part of the spec.

[jack...@gmail.com]

Il giorno venerdì 2 settembre 2016 13:00:03 UTC+2, Martin Gregorie ha scritto:
> On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 06:30:50 -0400, J.B. Wood wrote:
>
>
> > They might also work OK on a r-pi but
> > you'd probably still have to hook up a display/monitor of appropriate
> > screen size.
> >
> Two points:
>
> - you can run GUI programs on a headless RPI by enabling X11 forwarding
> on it provided that you logged in the the RPi from a system that is
> running a graphical X.11 server

easier would be to installa vncserver on the rpi, and connect to it using a remote desktop application.

Bye Jack

[alister]

Actually no it isn't (assuming you are connecting from another Linux box)
X11 forwarding is normally enabled out of the box :-)


--
Alexander Viro wrote:
> Al, -><- close to setting up a Linux Kernel Hall of Shame - one with
names of
> wankers (both individual and coprorat ones) responsible, their code and
> commentary on said code...

Please, please, please, I'm begging you, please do this. It's the only
way
people learn quickly. Being nice is great, but nothing works faster than
a cold shower of public humiliation :-)

- Larry McVoy on linux-kernel

[druck]

Much better quality and faster than VNC is RDP, which means you can also
access the RPI's desktop from PC's using the remote desktop client.

Install x11vnc (as it uses the current logged in session rather than
creating a new session like some other VNC clients), then install XRDP.
You need to set both to start as daemons if you want to be able to log
in straight after booting up, rather than having to open an ssh shell
and start them first.

---druck

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Mon, 5 Sep 2016 17:39:42 +0100
druck <ne...@druck.org.uk> wrote:

> On 05/09/2016 08:06, jack...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Il giorno venerdì 2 settembre 2016 13:00:03 UTC+2, Martin Gregorie ha
> > scritto:
> >> - you can run GUI programs on a headless RPI by enabling X11 forwarding
> >> on it provided that you logged in the the RPi from a system that is
> >> running a graphical X.11 server
> >
> > easier would be to installa vncserver on the rpi, and connect to it
> > using a remote desktop application.
>
> Much better quality and faster than VNC is RDP, which means you can also
> access the RPI's desktop from PC's using the remote desktop client.

But why add all the layers when you're already using a network
based display system, ssh -X rpi.whatever and run anything you like in its
own window to have the display traffic in an encrypted tunnel or just use
xhost to allow direct access to the X server from the Pi. This approach
worked fine 25 years ago or so using 10Mbps shared coax networks - it works
even better today using gigabit switched networks.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

[colone...@yahoo.com]

On Fri, 2 Sep 2016, Rob Morley wrote:

>
> That's not part of the spec.
>

The ``spec'' being it should look a lot like a walkman? A raspberry pi
with a half-dozen buttons sticking out of the case and a 24 charactor lcd
that uses impressivly little power with a play, rec, stop button and a way
(button or wheel) to select the file and maybe midi channel?

Using timidty with parameters that works on 2ghz P4 systems over usb
the lactency was unuseable for me (I am not a keyboardist. A good one
could live with it (pipe organs can have the pipes up to 30 feet* or more
from the keyboard => 30ms or more latency for the sound to get to the
player.) Recording with a constand latancy would be OK but I don't trust
it to be jitter-free.

I was using a GUI on either pidora or rasbian so it might have been better
from a bare console, though I was also thinking of using an arduino to
gather and timestamp the midi messages. With the messages time-stamped
they can leasurly be sent to the pi or other host.

Don't remember if I plugged ccrma satellite in this discussion:

https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~eberdahl/Satellite/

Ron

*sample size 1, Velda Rose United Methodist Church in Mesa AZ :-)