Mako/Revo Battery Problem ... Possible Solution
Richard
It has been more than a month since I used the "Freezer Method" to restore
my Mako battery. It was a new unit that wasn't charged properly at first
use. It exhibited the 80% charge symptoms. I put it in the freezer overnight
and checked on the rapid charging time (red light ON) numerous times. The
light went out after about 4hrs. In the morning after getting a full charge
for the first time, I left it on all day. About 9 hrs later it discharged to
0%. I charged it normally (24hrs). The red light went out at about 85% and
trickle charged the rest of the time. The unit has worked perfectly since.
I have done this now to two other used units that were also exhibiting the
80% symptoms. They are now working properly.
Some posters were aghast at my freezing the unit. Well, the method seems to
work for me.
Some observations:
1. I believe the cold inhibits the thermistor circuit from shutting off the
rapid charge prematurely. The Mako/Revo exhibiting the 80% battery symptom
NEVER receives the proper FULL charge. In the freezer, it does.
2. You could probably just use the fridge compartment and maybe avoid the
frost. But I would make sure that the battery receives a good couple hours
on fast charging cycle (Red Light ON) before switching to trickle charge.
3. These units are usually only one or two years old. The NiMH batteries
should last a lot longer. 1000 recharge cycles is normal. I believe most
users would benefit from trying this method before reverting to replacing
the batteries.
4. Always recharge the unit when it gets to 20-40% charge. And then try and
charge it overnight until the battery charging icon stops moving. Or at
least stops moving for 10-15 seconds.
5. Always charge the unit directly from the AC Adaptor. I never charge it
from it docking cradle cable.
HTH
Richard
Paul
Just curious - why do you specify not using the docking cradle cable
and connecting the charger directly?
Paul
Bob G
>my Mako battery. It was a new unit that wasn't charged properly at first
>use. It exhibited the 80% charge symptoms. I put it in the freezer overnight
>and checked on the rapid charging time (red light ON) numerous times. The
>light went out after about 4hrs. In the morning after getting a full charge
>for the first time, I left it on all day. About 9 hrs later it discharged to
>0%. I charged it normally (24hrs). The red light went out at about 85% and
>trickle charged the rest of the time. The unit has worked perfectly since.
>
>I have done this now to two other used units that were also exhibiting the
>80% symptoms. They are now working properly.
>
>Some posters were aghast at my freezing the unit. Well, the method seems to
>work for me.
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------
I'm grateful for your efforts and for sharing your rather unique method with us
I tried it but unfortunately it didn't work for me
As I've stated before, though, there is something dreadfully wrong with a
gadget that requires such heroic efforts to get it to function - it should
never have been released by Psion as it stands
If you're going to put rechargeable batteries in a gadget you must make them
easily ACCESSIBLE, it being obvious that they will eventually go bad and need
replacement
To do otherwise is unpardonable
When the Revo was released I remember the battery replacement question came up
immediately and Psion's answer was that they would be replaced for a "nominal"
charge. Well, the price is $99 and I don't consider that nominal
Someone should start a class action suit and force Psion to service the
batteries for perhaps $20 or offer refunds to dissatisfied customers!
Bob G
Mike Dyer
Trouble is if you use the docking cradle you may get an intermittent
connection that may result in overcharging. If you plug the adaptor
directly into the Revo this cannot happen.
There is definately a trend that posters who run their Revos' down to
around 30% before recharging and then charging them overnight with a
direct connection to the adaptor do not get premature battery problems.
Regards,
Mike Dyer.
Chris
> There is definately a trend that posters who run their Revos' down to
> around 30% before recharging and then charging them overnight with a
> direct connection to the adaptor do not get premature battery problems.
Certainly I have found that not charing until I reach 30-ish percent
seems to prevent the Revo having problems.
But I never found it necessary to charge overnight, since it only
takes maybe an hour (two at most) to full charge it. Indeed, charging
overnight may be a *bad* idea, since the charging circuit may fail to
stop fast charging...
--
Chris Handley
To reply privately by email, please remove the anti-spam stuff
starting my address, and put the @ where the AT is in my address.
Richard
"Bob G" <bobja...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030225000957...@mb-fb.aol.com...
Bob,
I totally agree with you about EASY ACCESS for batteries. This would have
solved the majority of problems with the Revo. In fact, why did they even
put RECHARGEABLE batteries in it in the first place? They had always used
STANDARD batteries in their successful Series 3 and 5. Why change?
But I still think alot of Revo batteries have been changed out (or Revos
thrown out!) that didn't need to be. On one of the used Makos, I had to do
the "freezer fix" twice. The first time didn't seem to completely fix the
problem to my 100% satisfaction. Back in the freezer it went. This time it
took the "fix".
HTH
Richard
tommyj
<snip>
>
> If you're going to put rechargeable batteries in a gadget you must make them
> easily ACCESSIBLE, it being obvious that they will eventually go bad and need
> replacement
>
> To do otherwise is unpardonable
>
> When the Revo was released I remember the battery replacement question came up
> immediately and Psion's answer was that they would be replaced for a "nominal"
> charge. Well, the price is $99 and I don't consider that nominal
>
> Someone should start a class action suit and force Psion to service the
> batteries for perhaps $20 or offer refunds to dissatisfied customers!
>
I'm not an engineer so after replacing the batteries in my Mako, I'm not
sure if Psion could have easly put a "hatch" on the revo that would have
easily allowed you to replace the battery pack or not.
I do believe that even though the battery pack in a Revo is made up of 2
AAA NiMh batteries, Psion would not want to allow you to pop in any old
NiMh because charging characteristics do differ between them and that
could cause problems.
If the above is true then they would need to sell a user installable
pre-made battery "pack". They might have had to make the Revo bigger to
accomplish this. The battery pack they use now wasn't intended to be
handled by typical users. It's two batteries held together by solder and
a stiff wired glued to the outside. The whole thing is surrounded by
thin shrinkwrap. The connector is small and at least in my Mako was
glued to its mate by a drop of something similar to silicon caulk.
So why rechargeables at all? NiMh batteries do better than akalines for
applications like this. Also, removing the batteries means losing all
your data unless you have a backup battery which takes up more room and
would also have to be user replaceable.
My old Apple MessagePad 2000/2100 had the best of both worlds. It had a
removeable NiMh battery pack that could be substituted with a battery
"cage" that would hold 4 AA batteries. Of course the reason this was
possible with the 2000 is that it was much bigger than a Revo. Much
larger in fact that a lot of people would want to carry around.
There's a price to pay for something that's as powerfull, yet as small
as the Revo. Maybe they could have made the batteries easy to replace
without making the Revo much bigger, - I don't know for sure. What I do
know is that there are lots of rechargeable devices out there and many
of them don't exhibit the same kinds of problems.
>
>
>
>
> Bob G
Richard R.
one or two, to do it myself as well.
Richard
"tommyj" <tommyj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3E5B927F...@yahoo.com...
tommyj
I took the original (minus the shrink wrap) to a battery specialty store
with the intention of just getting the batteries and making another pack
myself. They said they could do it for me for $10 USD. If I had to do it
again I might just do it myself.
They said they could finish in 1 day and it took 3. When I got it back
they had cut the wires that lead to the power connector too short.
Rather than having them spend another 3 days redoing it, I removed the
connecter and spliced in some longer wires myself. If you do have
somebody else make one up for you, make sure they know that the leads
for the connector can't be any shorter and not much longer (or they
won't fit) than they are on the original.
Jacques Clouseau
> Bob G wrote:
>
> So why rechargeables at all? NiMh batteries do better than akalines for
> applications like this.
Yes, well, my Psion 3a has always worked just fine with replaceable
alkalines -- for a month at a time. And my Handspring Visor runs for a
long time on two AAA alkaline batteries, which are easily changed.
So NiMh don't always "work better than alkalines for applications like
this." Especially if you want to be able to work away from a charger for
long periods of time.
And I prefer to have the freedom to be able to choose what kind of
batteries I'll use in the device.
--
Jacques Clouseau
tommyj
> In article <3E5B927F...@yahoo.com>, tommyj...@yahoo.com says...
>
>>Bob G wrote:
>>
>
>
>>So why rechargeables at all? NiMh batteries do better than akalines for
>>applications like this.
>
>
> Yes, well, my Psion 3a has always worked just fine with replaceable
> alkalines -- for a month at a time. And my Handspring Visor runs for a
> long time on two AAA alkaline batteries, which are easily changed.
>
Not sure which Visor you're talking about, but my wife has a Visor
Deluxe which has a smaller screen than the Revo and a much slower
processor so it doesn't have the same power requirements.
The 3a has a what? An 8 Mhz processor?
> So NiMh don't always "work better than alkalines for applications like
> this." Especially if you want to be able to work away from a charger for
> long periods of time.
By "applications like this" I was referring a PDA having the power
requirements of a Revo, which the 3a and the typical Visor do not.
If you want to be away from a charger for long periods of time then a
Revo is not for you. It is not hard however to make a little gizmo
that'll let you charge a Revo from a set of 4 AA batteries (of your
choosing).
Personally, the way I used my Revo (Mako), it'll last anywhere for 2 to
5 days without charging. The only time I'd be away from a power source
longer than that is if I'm somewhere where the Revo isn't much use to me
anyway.
>
> And I prefer to have the freedom to be able to choose what kind of
> batteries I'll use in the device.
>
That's fine, but in my experience NiMh out lasts alkalines in the same
device unless it's sitting on shelf for long periods of time. So even
when I have a choice of alkalines or NiMh (like in my digital camera), I
use NiMh.
Replaceable batteries are great in my camera, it doesn't loose the
pictures if I take the batteries out, and it's not really feasible to
have the camera plugged in while using it, so on-board charging isn't a
real plus anyway.
A lot of it boils down to how you use the device. Psion made several
models to suit the needs of different people. The Revo was just one of
the models. Just because it doesn't meet everyone's needs does not mean
it was a flawed design.
I now have a Sony Clie. It also has a non-replaceable battery. It can
last as little as a few hours or several days depending on how you use
it. It's been 4 days since I charged it and the batteries are still
above 50 percent. It helps that 2 of those days were on the weekend ;-)
There are times when I'm jealous of the battery life on my wife's Visor,
but it's capabilities are so limited compared to the Clie. Then there
was that time I wanted to sync her Visor at 2:00 am and I was getting
warning messages about the low battery and hoping to God they had enough
left in them to complete a synchronization because we didn't have any
spare AAA's around.
Karl Heinrichs
news:VwM6a.7535$os6.4...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Can you tell us where you got the battery pack? I for one would like to
buy
> one or two, to do it myself as well.
>
> Richard
>
Try http://www.batteriepack.de/e_bilder.htm or
http://www.top-geschenk.de/Psion/main.htm (in German, but with pics)
Regards
Paul
I understand why you said that now. I thought maybe you knew of some
problem associated with the cable itself.
I solve the problem by leaving the charger switched off unless I want
to re-charge.
Paul
Richard R.
was actually talking about the in-built NIMH battery pack (inside the Revo).
I wanted to by a new pack to install it myself.
Richard
"Karl Heinrichs" <karl...@yahoo.de> wrote in message
news:b3gdnm$16po4s$1...@ID-150412.news.dfncis.de...
Eric Lindsay's spam trap
<tommyj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>There's a price to pay for something that's as powerfull, yet as small
>as the Revo. Maybe they could have made the batteries easy to replace
>without making the Revo much bigger, - I don't know for sure. What I do
>know is that there are lots of rechargeable devices out there and many
>of them don't exhibit the same kinds of problems.
I have rarely owned a device that had rechargeable batteries that
didn't give battery problems within a two year period. This
ranges from AA rechargeables through cell phones and laptop
computers to trucks and motorhomes. I have a little bunch of
five laptop computers over the past decade (not all mine from
new) that all ended up with dead batteries. This applies to
NiCd, NiMH, Li-Ion, and lead-acid.
Least trouble so far have been AA rechargeables, and my Psion 7
and my Ericsson SH888, but both have decreased capacity compared
to when new.
I will never buy any expensive (over say $50) device with
non-replaceable, rechargeable batteries. That was why I never
bought a Revo, and don't support them on my Epoc site.
--
Eric Lindsay http://www.ericlindsay.com/guff
Airlie Beach Qld Australia - Great Barrier Reef entry
Psion & Epoc site http://www.ericlindsay.com/epoc
Richard R.
construction. The original battery was still going strong when it finally
died. The battery lasted 8 years!!! That was about the only quality part of
the whole vehicle.
Richard
"Eric Lindsay's spam trap" <spam...@ericlindsay.com> wrote in message
news:3e5c442b...@news.bigpond.com...
tommyj
> On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:57:51 -0600, tommyj
> <tommyj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>There's a price to pay for something that's as powerfull, yet as small
>>as the Revo. Maybe they could have made the batteries easy to replace
>>without making the Revo much bigger, - I don't know for sure. What I do
>>know is that there are lots of rechargeable devices out there and many
>>of them don't exhibit the same kinds of problems.
>
>
> I have rarely owned a device that had rechargeable batteries that
> didn't give battery problems within a two year period. This
> ranges from AA rechargeables through cell phones and laptop
> computers to trucks and motorhomes. I have a little bunch of
> five laptop computers over the past decade (not all mine from
> new) that all ended up with dead batteries. This applies to
> NiCd, NiMH, Li-Ion, and lead-acid.
>
Really? I have lots of rechargeable items, including portable phones,
PDA's, etc. I had a Newton MessagePad for 4 years and while I'm sure
the battery life had shortened over time, it wasn't noticable. Like you,
I've had batteries die prematurely too, but not so often that I consider
it normal.
Batteries do have a limited life and lose capacity over time. I don't
dispute that.
The problems I was refering to with the Revo is that the charging
circuitry is easily confused, making it appear as though the
batteries have prematurely worn out even though they are fine. I've not
experienced this with other devices, and it seemed to happen out of the
blue. One week, the Revo worked fine, the next it started shutting off
when supposedly it still had a 70% charge. This had nothing to do with
the batteries not being replaceable. The batteries themselves were fine.
I had 2 problems actually. One was the typical confused charging
circuitry problem, the other was a loose connector (which maybe led to
the first problem). Since I had the revo apart anyway, I decided to
replace the batteries.
> Least trouble so far have been AA rechargeables, and my Psion 7
> and my Ericsson SH888, but both have decreased capacity compared
> to when new.
>
> I will never buy any expensive (over say $50) device with
> non-replaceable, rechargeable batteries. That was why I never
> bought a Revo, and don't support them on my Epoc site.
>
That's your choice of course. I knew when I bought my Revo (Mako
actually) that I'd probably only keep it for a couple of years. I also
did enough research ahead of time that I knew about the charging issues
and that I could replace the batteries if I really wanted to.
A 5 or 5mx was too big and too expensive. A series 3 didn't have the
same capabilities. What other options were there?
Bob G
>actually) that I'd probably only keep it for a couple of years. I also
>did enough research ahead of time that I knew about the charging issues
>and that I could replace the batteries if I really wanted to.
>
>A 5 or 5mx was too big and too expensive. A series 3 didn't have the
>same capabilities. What other options were there
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
You probably paid $99 for your Mako and I guess it's OK to dispose of it after
two years' use, that comes to about $4 a month, a bargain
But do remember that the Revo was meant to sell for $399, four times as much as
you paid
I don't know how many units sold for that price, I bet it was in the thousands
Also, as you state, you did your research and were able to replace the
batteries on your own
But how many $399-a-Revo consumers are like you?
My point is that Psion should never have released a product they knew would die
as soon as its batteries did
They said they would replace batteries for a nominal fee, but right now that's
$99 plus
They haven't made new battery packs available to the public, much less
published instructions as to how to replace them
In fact, you can't talk to a living soul at Psion, all you can do is get an RMA
to send your machine in for repair
No wonder thy've alienated their customers
Bob G
tommyj
>>I knew when I bought my Revo (Mako
>>actually) that I'd probably only keep it for a couple of years. I also
>>did enough research ahead of time that I knew about the charging issues
>>and that I could replace the batteries if I really wanted to.
>>
>>A 5 or 5mx was too big and too expensive. A series 3 didn't have the
>>same capabilities. What other options were there
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------
> You probably paid $99 for your Mako and I guess it's OK to dispose of it after
> two years' use, that comes to about $4 a month, a bargain
Actually I paid $89. I never intended to "dispose" of it. I intended to
sell it.
>
> But do remember that the Revo was meant to sell for $399, four times as much as
> you paid
>
> I don't know how many units sold for that price, I bet it was in the thousands
>
> Also, as you state, you did your research and were able to replace the
> batteries on your own
>
> But how many $399-a-Revo consumers are like you?
Probably not that many. How many Revo batteries are actually dead after
2 years as oppossed to just appearing to be bad because of a confused
charging system? That's the issue I have with the Revo, not the fact
that it uses a non-replaceable battery.
What is the actual average life of the batteries? I don't know. Let's
say 4 years. The NiMH battery pack in my Newton was still going strong
after 4 years. If someone had $399 to spend on a Revo, what are they
going to do 4 years later when the battery dies, even if it only cost
$40 to replace? Would they replace the battery or say, "hmmm, this thing
is getting pretty out-dated, maybe I'll get something new".
How many people who spent $399 on a Revo would actually keep it that
long before getting something else?
>
> My point is that Psion should never have released a product they knew would die
> as soon as its batteries did
>
> They said they would replace batteries for a nominal fee, but right now that's
> $99 plus
What would you consider nominal?
Lo...@replyto.header
>I have a little bunch of five laptop computers over the past decade
>(not all mine from new) that all ended up with dead batteries.
>This applies to NiCd, NiMH, Li-Ion, and lead-acid.
Hmm. A lead-acid battery Revo. Could affect the portability, though...
;)
--
____________________________________________________
~~ Paul Gilham ~~
____________________________________________________
James Annan
> UPDATE
>
> It has been more than a month since I used the "Freezer Method" to restore
> my Mako battery. It was a new unit that wasn't charged properly at first
> use. It exhibited the 80% charge symptoms. I put it in the freezer overnight
> and checked on the rapid charging time (red light ON) numerous times. The
> light went out after about 4hrs. In the morning after getting a full charge
> for the first time, I left it on all day. About 9 hrs later it discharged to
> 0%. I charged it normally (24hrs). The red light went out at about 85% and
> trickle charged the rest of the time. The unit has worked perfectly since.
FWIW I have just done this on two machines:
1. Revo, I've used this for a few years but recently it started
shutting off at 25% or so and I though it was worth trying to get the
capacity up again. After the freezer charge, it ran down to <10%, but
then when recharging the indicator jumped to >84% and switched to
trickle almost immediately. Obviously teh battery gauge was misreading
badly at that point. I will give it a very long time on trickle charge
to get it to a 'true' 100% and see how it behaves over the next few
charges.
2. Mako, almost unused, bought 2nd hand and the seller insists it was
working fine but I found it was shutting off at about 80%-40% (I
bought this as a replacement for the revo which has a damaged but
still usable screen). This seems to have been a success, after the
first freezer charge it went to <10% and seems to have charged up fine
subsequently.
So it seems to have worked in one out of 2 cases, so far. It has
certainly made a difference to the Mako, but it's too early to say if
it's a long term fix.
James