MP3 on Psion NOW!
David
machines? Forget the obvious "Psion isn't making them anymore.."
because that's just not an answer - loads of other shareware software
is being developed still.
SO here's my argument for it: I don't know about you, but I am one of
those people who used to listen to transistor radios. The speaker on
my Netbook is no worse than a transistor radio speaker (which was
sufficient for MILLIONS of people) so why be anal about the sound
quality? wouldn;t it be brilliant to have REAL PLAYER for Psion too?
Imagine listening to internet radio on the move through the machine.
so: a) I would pay for this
b) It should be easy to write the software (at least to work on
Netbook/S7)
c) I'd also like it if I could convert sounds recorded on the
netbook to other foramts, e.g: MP3 or WAV!
someone let me know if this already exists... I've been scouriung the
web for any mention, but apart from SoundTrans (which seems to have
disappeared, or at anyrate is not available from CNET downloads) there
is nothing.
(BTW, anyone with a copy of SoundTrans, if you could email it to me
I'd be mucho grateful.)
David.
Kingdoms
I too would love to be able to play MP3 tracks from my Psion, but I don't
think it would be worth it at the quality (12bit). All my MP3's (about 6Gb
of them) are 16bit high(ish) quality. I'd have to resample my entire
collection, then squeeze what I wanted to listen to either over serial and
PsiWin (please God - no!) or use a USB CF reader. Given that you can pick up
a 32mb player for under £100 these days there really doesn't seem like much
point...
I know that sometimes it's good to try things just for the hell of it, but
after all that hassle why don't you just convert your MP3s to Psion audio
files?
--
Best regards,
James Marshall
________________________________________
Petition for Psion S7 and NetBook Ethernet:
http://www.digitalkingdoms.com/s7ether/
"David" <da...@theligger.com> wrote in message
news:ade04082.01121...@posting.google.com...
Walter
sound.
Perhaps MP3 written in Java work on Netbook ?
I search a player for .MOD in Java for Netbook ...
"Kingdoms" <anti...@digitalkingdoms.com> a écrit dans le message news:
9v2r5t$l3h$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
Darren Prescott
> machines? Forget the obvious "Psion isn't making them anymore.."
> because that's just not an answer - loads of other shareware software
> is being developed still.
less space than a 128kbps MP3 - MP3 is over-the-top due to the poor speaker
of the Psion. All you need is a mono, 22kHz (or even 11kHz) stream.
You'd be better off asking for an easy MP3->Psion format converter IMO......
Ben
news:3c14f94a$0$201$626a...@news.free.fr...
> The MP3 is not necessery for the quality, but for a real compression of
> sound.
>
> Perhaps MP3 written in Java work on Netbook ?
> I search a player for .MOD in Java for Netbook ...
I don't know how powerful a netbook is, but I very much doubt it's powerful
enough to decode MP3s (real time) using JAVA, it would at least have to be
compiled, and probably written in something pretty low level, like C, by
somebody with a good knowledge of algorithms and the destination
architecture.
Ben
--
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a string...
Alasdair Manson
>(BTW, anyone with a copy of SoundTrans, if you could email it to me
>I'd be mucho grateful.)
you can get it here:
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-2673082-100-2651434.html
see you
ali
Mark Rowan
It has a StrongARM clocked at ~190MHz. My 233MHz SA RiscPC can decode in
at least 2x realtime (I'm playing one right now, desktop is smooth as
ever).
eQ R&D have ported a player to RISC OS for the 36MHz ARM710 too, as used
in the original RiscPC 700 and the Revo (actually that's an ARM710T...)
I see no reason the Netbook shouldn't manage it! Please enlighten me if
I'm wrong though :-)
Cheers,
Mark
--
Iron Law of Distribution: Them that has, gets.
Cheers, | tam...@ukgateway.net - http://www.tamias.ukgateway.net
Mark Rowan.| ZFC-A (S) - ICQ 30759398 - Tamias on IRC (#csn.ml.kids)
------------' DialUp + Pluto, Acorn RiscPC 233(T) + 5x86, 80+1MB, RO4.02
ADFS 2GB, Cumana SCSI 1.2GB, APDL ideA 8GB, DeskFM, Atomwide Fast Serial
Ben
news:4ae6dbd1...@ukgateway.net...
> In article <3J7R7.34229$ez6.4...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>,
>
> It has a StrongARM clocked at ~190MHz. My 233MHz SA RiscPC can decode in
> at least 2x realtime (I'm playing one right now, desktop is smooth as
> ever).
>
> eQ R&D have ported a player to RISC OS for the 36MHz ARM710 too, as used
> in the original RiscPC 700 and the Revo (actually that's an ARM710T...)
>
> I see no reason the Netbook shouldn't manage it! Please enlighten me if
> I'm wrong though :-)
I've never seen one, so I didn't know how powerful. My guess, with the spec
you give is yes the netbook can do it.
As for the Revo, certainly not with Java.
David
The listing for the program is there, but the actual download has been
removed. Try clicking on the download now link - it just goes to a
page saying the file has been removed.
Ali, if you have the program I'd be very grateful if you could email
it to me.
Thanks,
David.
David
send it elsewhere, and it is also useful if you want to import stuff.
But other than that, I agree. I'd be very happy with an MP3-> Psion
sound format converter.
As for the Real Player, I think that would be very popular for obvious
reasons.
basically all I want to do is a) be able to record stuff using my
psion record program and then email the recordings as attachments in
some universally recognised format so that someone without a psion can
hear them
and b) be able to listen to audio downloaded from the web, internet
radio, or other such feeds, through my Netbook. for which Real Player
on EPOC, of course, would be ideal. This is not quliaty listening,
its merely functional - and very useful - which is exactly what the
psion to me is all about.
David
going too, n'est pas? Afterall, networking is a very popular desire of
many Psion users (Yand, yes, I have signed your petition!).
This is another sounding (pardon the punn) on a related issue (sorry
for being lame and not coming up with a more original subject line...
but I thought it would worked once so why not a second time?)
I have answered the points you made in another posting elsewhere in
this group, but just incase it's got lost or something...
I don't want MP3 for MP3's sake. I want it coz it's a convenient
format to get audio in and out of the Psion. That's all. What I
basically want is some format I will be able to email sound
attachments to anyone - rather than the psion format which only other
psion users will be able to hear - without having to return to my PC
to convert them (this is a MOBILE machine afterall). Second, I don't
htink it's too much to ask to have an implementation of Real Player on
the Psion - I know that Nokia are coming out with an MPEG player or
something similar for their 9210 communicator (EPOC-based) so why not
the Netbook? It's easily capable, there's no denying it.
So I concede maybe saying MP3 brought too many connotations of "music"
and this was not my intention, maybe I should've said wav? I don't
know. It's just that nearly everyone has an MP3 player, if you can
name me a different file format that would do the trick I'd be equally
happy with it.
And I'd be even happier if you set up a website petition/survey to see
how many other people werde interested.... ;-)
Best,
David.
"Kingdoms" <anti...@digitalkingdoms.com> wrote in message news:<9v2r5t$l3h$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>...
Phil Dixon
will email it to you (better than just sending it & ending up with 200
copies @247k eh?)
da...@theligger.com (David) wrote in message >
OTSER
> Why is there such a fascination with MP3?
Because it's an established sound standard, whereas the Psion's sound format
is proprietary.
> Psion's own sound format takes less space than a 128kbps MP3
Not all MP3s are encoded at 128 kbps -- some are only 11 kbps, such as speeches
and similar. People sometimes mistakenly assume that MP3s are only used for
music, which is not the case.
Kingdoms
> going too, n'est pas? Afterall, networking is a very popular desire of
> many Psion users (Yand, yes, I have signed your petition!).
>
> This is another sounding (pardon the punn) on a related issue (sorry
> for being lame and not coming up with a more original subject line...
> but I thought it would worked once so why not a second time?)
Sorry David - I didn't mean it as a criticism! It's always good to get a
discussion going ...
> So I concede maybe saying MP3 brought too many connotations of "music"
> and this was not my intention, maybe I should've said wav? I don't
> know.
I totally agree. My only problem is that I *would* want music, along with
headphone output. Unfortunately Psion have never fully explored multimedia
possibilities with their hardware.
I have a friend who owns an iPaq, and I've got to say that I'm impressed. It
uses a StrongARM chip, got a screen with thousands of colours and got a
headphone out. The chip spec and memory specs are similar to the netBook, as
was the price (at that time). I know that you WinCE is looked down upon (I'm
not a fan myself), but as far as hardware functionality go the iPaq is a
*fantastic* unit. Oh yes - you can network it as well!
Of course, the iPaq isn't an option if you want good text input as Psion
machines have keyboards (and the S7/netBook keyboard is fabulous). All I'm
saying is that Compaq produced a great unit, with similar specs to a
netBook, at a similar price.
I don't particularly want a phone with an MP3 player built in, but it's
something that I'd definately want in my next PDA/mobile computing purchase.
I know that Psion aren't making consumer hardware anymore, so MP3 support is
unlikely to come from there...
What I'm really wanting is that Ericsson unit from tomb raider - the one
with the Pocket PC form factor that uses EPOC? Finally - a phone/pda that
doesn't look like a cell phone circa 1988!
Walter
But i have no gui to use it.
"Ben" <b_popeDE...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message news:
phbR7.36069$ez6.5...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Eric Lindsay's spam trap
>SO here's my argument for it: I don't know about you, but I am one of
>those people who used to listen to transistor radios. The speaker on
>my Netbook is no worse than a transistor radio speaker (which was
>sufficient for MILLIONS of people) so why be anal about the sound
>quality?
While a netBook (and maybe even a Series 7) might have the CPU
horsepower to do MP3, it is very unlikely that the Series 5mx
does. That is why MP3 players usually contain a dedicated DSP
chip. That is the way the "MP3 player" is done on the Sony Clie
and on the Palm add-on. I think they also took advantage of the
added hardware to include a stereo amplifier. This avoids a lot
of the sound quality problems of the available speaker, since you
can add stereo headphone connectors also.
So really, for best results, you are talking a hardware add-on
that simply uses the display and buttons for pick list.
Assuming you go for a software only solution, the mono channel
and poor speaker means that MP3 is almost totally wasted. You
don't need stereo, and you don't need lots of bits in the
samples.
So, really, what you are tralking about is a set of Windows
programs that will convert MP3 to Psion. And a player for the
Psion. I have no interest in music, but check this out.
Five Play
FivePlay Mobile Music Sound Player freeware by Steve Beadle. V1.2
fiveplay.SIS May 2000. Lets you play selected multiple sound
files in a sequence. It's a bit like an MP3 player.
steve_...@iee.org
http://www.biblet.freeserve.co.uk
For the PC converter tool try the program from Psion at
www.psion.com/downloads/pc/misc/wvewavbmpconvutils.zip
You would need to use WinAmp or something to do MP3 to Wav
conversions first.
Another possibility is ABC music files. You can find a bit of a
list of sound and music related tools on my web site at
http://www.ericlindsay.com/epoc/sisound5.htm
Good luck, and please report how you go.
--
Eric Lindsay http://www.ericlindsay.com/guff
Airlie Beach Qld Australia - Great Barrier Reef entry
Psion & Epoc site http://www.ericlindsay.com/epoc
Rolf Brunsting
<< Why doesn't anyone develop an MP3 player for the Psion series of
machines? >>
Quite simple, the Psions don't come with a connector to plug in
headphones. Playing music is thus limited to the occasions when you don'
t run the risk of pestering others (with your choice of music). It also
means you can't enjoy the advantages MP3 has over Psion's own sound
format. As you'll need something better than the speaker of the Series
5 or 7 to hear the difference.
<< Forget the obvious "Psion isn't making them anymore.." because that'
s just not an answer >>
It's the answer you don't want to hear. The MP3 player will be launched
on a market that's already shrinking right at this moment and will no
longer be there in two years time. The person or company developing the
player has to get the associated costs back in a very short period
which inevitably means a high price. You may be willing to pay for an
MP3 player but the question is whether you're really willing to pay the
price the developer has to charge.
<< I am one of those people who used to listen to transistor radios.
The speaker on
my Netbook is no worse than a transistor radio speaker (which was
sufficient for MILLIONS of people) >>
Which WAS sufficient. You already indicate that you USED TO listen to a
transistor radio, meaning it's no longer sufficient today. To expect
that this is suddenly changed by the introduction of an MP3 player for
the Psions is rather silly.
--
Kind Regards,
Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands
Kingdoms
addition to the insurmountable hardware issues).
EPOC itself is meant for smaller devices. The netBook and the S7 don't get
as much out of the operating system as they might, because the features are
geared toward handhelds and phones. Nokia are taking the leading role in the
development of EPOC, and Psion are pulling out. The netBook and S7 are
really a halfway-house between a PDA and a notebook. The future of EPOC will
be in smart phones, some of which will support MP3 playback, but this will
also be supported by their hardware.
Psion are now only interested in the corporate/business markets, and
unfortunately they seem to think that this excludes the requirement for
multimedia. =(
Mr. Ketamine [1s2 2s2 2p6 3s2 3p6...]
do you know that a modest speaker drains at least 1000mA compared with around 300mA (Revo plus that I own..) in that of the Psion
speaker?
--
Calvin Y.K. Chong -
Free software developer n' Kernel player
Debian Linux - http://www.debian.org/ - Join our world domination camp!
Debian Chinese - http://www.debian.org/intl/zh/ - You are chinese? help us!
My Diary (Chinese) - http://lamer.uhome.net/ - heh...
"David" <da...@theligger.com> wrote in message news:ade04082.01121...@posting.google.com...
Eero Augustin
"Mr. Ketamine [1s2 2s2 2p6 3s2 3p6...]" <ev...@linuxhall.org> wrote :
> do you know that a modest speaker drains at least 1000mA compared with
> around 300mA (Revo plus that I own..) in that of the Psion
> speaker?
Speaker uses mA?? I thought they run on watts =)
Seriously, a speaker's size doesn't affect the power consumption (nor sound
quality, for that matter) if the impedance stays the same. Amplifiers are a
different story.
Eero
Mr. Ketamine [1s2 2s2 2p6 3s2 3p6...]
> > around 300mA (Revo plus that I own..) in that of the Psion
> > speaker?
>
> Speaker uses mA?? I thought they run on watts =)
I hope that I don't need to mention P=VI... and for all these pda usually we
use 'mA' as a measure of power, much more easier to detect (for a circuit)
than 'W'...
> Seriously, a speaker's size doesn't affect the power consumption (nor sound
> quality, for that matter) if the impedance stays the same. Amplifiers are a
> different story.
no, it's not true, speaker's size does matter, since you can't really get small sound
from a big speaker (that is the problem of range).
--
Calvin Y.K. Chong -
Free software developer n' Kernel player
Debian Linux - http://www.debian.org/ - Join our world domination camp!
Debian Chinese - http://www.debian.org/intl/zh/ - You are chinese? help us!
My Diary (Chinese) - http://lamer.uhome.net/ - heh...
"Eero Augustin" <eero.a...@augustinimports.fi> wrote in message news:9v7m0h$lea$1...@ousrvr3.oulu.fi...
>
> "Mr. Ketamine [1s2 2s2 2p6 3s2 3p6...]" <ev...@linuxhall.org> wrote :
>
>
>
> Eero
>
>
Eric Lindsay's spam trap
<anti...@digitalkingdoms.com> wrote:
>Of course, the iPaq isn't an option if you want good text input as Psion
>machines have keyboards (and the S7/netBook keyboard is fabulous). All I'm
>saying is that Compaq produced a great unit, with similar specs to a
>netBook, at a similar price.
Um, well, no, not really.
In particular, you have a relatively small LCD display with 240
x 320 pixels vs a 640 x 480 pixel display. This does horrible
things to your component costs, which means you have to save
money elsewhere.
There are also great advantages in sticking with standard size
LCD displays, as manufacturers only make them in certain sizes
(unless you are in a position to order by the millions). Anyone
using a quarter VGA display is in a fairly sweet spot for getting
displays.
Second item is that if you want a daylight readable display, you
have to give up backlighting, as used on the Psion. You need the
frontlighting the iPAQ uses. However as far as I know, you can't
successfully frontlight large displays (I've heard six inches is
the absolute limit).
Mike Coon
news:9v7m0h$lea$1...@ousrvr3.oulu.fi...
>
sound
> quality, for that matter) if the impedance stays the same. Amplifiers are
a
> different story.
But size seriously influences efficiency and hence the watts per bang, as it
were...
Mike.
--
If reply address = care5free, decrement 5 to 4
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.306 / Virus Database: 166 - Release Date: 04/12/01
Eero Augustin
"Mike Coon" <mjcoon@@care5free.net> wrote :
> But size seriously influences efficiency and hence the watts per
> bang, as it were...
Perhaps this is the case with most PDA-sized speakers, but please, please
don't make a generalization out of "bigger = louder" with speakers in
general. It's like saying that bigger speakers are always better..
Eero
David
I just found out that there IS a RealPlayer for Symbian (YEAH!) But
unfortunately it has only been developed to work on the Nokia 9210
communicator. It doesn't work on the Psion - I checked.
Surely it can't be that difficult to modify the program to work on
Psions too, (anybody at Real listenning???) BTW, any smart alecs want
to show how 'in-touch' they are by pointing out how "there's no
market" etc.. don't bother, I know we psion users are a small group.
But that shouldn't stop us from trying to keep the machine alive - who
knows maybe Real will agree to release the source to some enthusiastic
psion developers to port it for Psion use... now I'm REALly dreaming.
David.
da...@theligger.com (David) wrote in message news:<ade04082.01121...@posting.google.com>...
Hognoxious
> Ben <b_popeDE...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > "Walter" <wal...@free.fr> wrote in message
> > news:3c14f94a$0$201$626a...@news.free.fr...
> > > The MP3 is not necessery for the quality, but for a real compression
> > > of sound.
> > >
> > > Perhaps MP3 written in Java work on Netbook ? I search a player for
> > > .MOD in Java for Netbook ...>
> > I don't know how powerful a netbook is, but I very much doubt it's
> > powerful enough to decode MP3s (real time) using JAVA, it would at
> > least have to be compiled, and probably written in something pretty low
> > level, like C, by somebody with a good knowledge of algorithms and the
> > destination architecture.
>
> It has a StrongARM clocked at ~190MHz. My 233MHz SA RiscPC can decode in
> at least 2x realtime (I'm playing one right now, desktop is smooth as
> ever).
You can't just compare clock speeds; does one have a floating point
processor, for example. Somewhere in the symbian dev book (if memory
serves me well) it mentions that the 5 doesn't, and advises using
integers. Don't know about the notBook.
Kingdoms
>
> In particular, you have a relatively small LCD display with 240
> x 320 pixels vs a 640 x 480 pixel display. This does horrible
> things to your component costs, which means you have to save
> money elsewhere.
The S7 uses an STN screen - these were used in older laptops and are
actually cheaper to produce, or at least they were. I guess that it all
comes down to Psion using proprietry parts again.
I concede that the screen size is a factor, but do you really want to lug
around something resembling a sub-notebook just to play a little audio?
> Second item is that if you want a daylight readable display, you
> have to give up backlighting, as used on the Psion. You need the
> frontlighting the iPAQ uses. However as far as I know, you can't
> successfully frontlight large displays (I've heard six inches is
> the absolute limit).
That's an interesting point, and of course absolutely true. But STN screens
have always been poorer displays that TFT. The only good thing I've ever
heard said about an STN screen is that the person sitting next to you on the
train can't snoop at what you're doing (because of the way that STN loses
focus as you move to the side) ...
--
Best regards,
James Marshall
________________________________________
Petition for Psion S7 and NetBook Ethernet:
http://www.digitalkingdoms.com/s7ether/
"Eric Lindsay's spam trap" <spam...@ericlindsay.com> wrote in message
news:3c16dd38...@news.bigpond.com...
> On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:53:09 -0000, "Kingdoms"
> <anti...@digitalkingdoms.com> wrote:
>
> >Of course, the iPaq isn't an option if you want good text input as Psion
> >machines have keyboards (and the S7/netBook keyboard is fabulous). All
I'm
> >saying is that Compaq produced a great unit, with similar specs to a
> >netBook, at a similar price.
>
>
> There are also great advantages in sticking with standard size
> LCD displays, as manufacturers only make them in certain sizes
> (unless you are in a position to order by the millions). Anyone
> using a quarter VGA display is in a fairly sweet spot for getting
> displays.
>
>
Eric Lindsay's spam trap
<anti...@digitalkingdoms.com> wrote:
>The S7 uses an STN screen - these were used in older laptops and are
>actually cheaper to produce, or at least they were. I guess that it all
>comes down to Psion using proprietry parts again.
Psion production runs for the S7 will not be large enough for a
proprietary part. I bet they just bought in a standard display
size. With 4 times the pixels of a 1/4VGA, I believe they would
still be paying far more for their STN than for a 1/4VGA TFT. If
the notebook computers of a few years ago are a good indicator,
you paid about a 30%-50% premium.
Indeed, It would be interesting to see what the price is of any
TFT full VGA display?
>I concede that the screen size is a factor, but do you really want to lug
>around something resembling a sub-notebook just to play a little audio?
Well, I don't care at all about audio. I basically wanted a
really nice keyboard and a better display than my Series 5. I'd
like an even better display, and would be willing to pay a
premium to get it. Don't know how much of a premium however -
after all, I bought a Series 7, not a netBook, and that is
basically a price driven decision.
I still think the easiest solution for MP3 is to buy a separate
one (maybe something that also includes other sound things, like
a multiband radio).
>> Second item is that if you want a daylight readable display, you
>> have to give up backlighting, as used on the Psion. You need the
>> frontlighting the iPAQ uses. However as far as I know, you can't
>> successfully frontlight large displays (I've heard six inches is
>> the absolute limit).
>
>That's an interesting point, and of course absolutely true. But STN screens
>have always been poorer displays that TFT. The only good thing I've ever
>heard said about an STN screen is that the person sitting next to you on the
>train can't snoop at what you're doing (because of the way that STN loses
>focus as you move to the side) ...
No disputing that. I'd have prefered a TFT, for shaded daylight
use where the S7 has problems. Full daylight use would need
displays that probably don't exist, like OLED. However there is
no LCD I know of that can compete with tropical daylight. It
even washes out my CRT in this room at some times of day. If I
didn't like the view so much I'd close the drapes. I'd really
like to think I could use my Psion out on the balcony, but none
of them cope out there (about two minutes to totally blacken a
Psion 5 display).
R. Spanjaard
news:3c1afe90...@news.bigpond.com...
> No disputing that. I'd have prefered a TFT, for shaded daylight
> use where the S7 has problems. Full daylight use would need
> displays that probably don't exist, like OLED. However there is
What about the mentioned reflective screen from the IPaq and Palm (etc.)
devices? They actually get *better* with more light.
> no LCD I know of that can compete with tropical daylight. It
> even washes out my CRT in this room at some times of day. If I
> didn't like the view so much I'd close the drapes. I'd really
> like to think I could use my Psion out on the balcony, but none
> of them cope out there (about two minutes to totally blacken a
> Psion 5 display).
I don't know how those new screens react to heat. The S5-display is
over-sensitive. I placed it next to my notebook once, and the air coming
from the fan totally blacked out the screen. My m505 (reflective,
frontlight) doesn't have that problem.
--
Regards,
Robert
Eric Lindsay's spam trap
<rev...@ln.tenkciuqTAdraajnaps.r> wrote:
>What about the mentioned reflective screen from the IPaq and Palm (etc.)
>devices? They actually get *better* with more light.
Yes, full reflective displays do better with more light (within
limits) however for darker situations, it means they have to be
front lit instead of back lit. As I mentioned in another post,
you can get away with front lighting with a 1/4 VGA display (that
is how the iPAQ does it), but not with larger displays (my Psion
7 is full VGA and had to be backlit, hence not good in bright
light). All these design choices require tradeoffs, which will
not go away until you use a different technology, which was why I
mentioned OLED (which will then have doubtless have a cost
tradeoff).
Erik Sandblom
anti...@digitalkingdoms.com den 12-12-01 11.23:
> EPOC itself is meant for smaller devices.
Battery-powered devices, not necessarily small ones. The GUI is most suited
to a Psion 5, but you can put another GUI on Epoc. Size is irrelevant.
> The netBook and the S7 don't get
> as much out of the operating system as they might, because the features are
> geared toward handhelds and phones.
What else would they get if they didn't run Epoc? If it were Windows there
would be more choice for applications, but that's not a design issue with
Epoc.
> Nokia are taking the leading role in the
> development of EPOC, and Psion are pulling out. The netBook and S7 are
> really a halfway-house between a PDA and a notebook. The future of EPOC will
> be in smart phones, some of which will support MP3 playback, but this will
> also be supported by their hardware.
What do you mean by "the future will be in smartphones"? It's perhaps true
that most money will be made there, but that doesn't mean that Epoc/Symbian
will be endowed with phone features which renders it inoperative on other
machines.
> Psion are now only interested in the corporate/business markets
But they have said they are interested in selling intellectual property.
> , and
> unfortunately they seem to think that this excludes the requirement for
> multimedia. =(
That seems to be true, but the rising popularity of digital film and music
may give birth to new uses for multimedia, and so they might be included on
future Psions.
--
my site is EriksRailNews.com
for those who don't believe, no explanation is possible
for those who do, no explanation is necessary
Kingdoms
>
> Battery-powered devices, not necessarily small ones. The GUI is most
suited
> to a Psion 5, but you can put another GUI on Epoc. Size is irrelevant.
Sorry Erik - you seem to misunderstand me. You can also put an alternative
GUI on MS Windows, but the operating system is fundamentally the same. I
know that Nokia is already planning EPOC devices that don't use the same GUI
as existing Psion devices.
> > The netBook and the S7 don't get
> > as much out of the operating system as they might, because the features
are
> > geared toward handhelds and phones.
>
> What else would they get if they didn't run Epoc? If it were Windows there
> would be more choice for applications, but that's not a design issue with
> Epoc.
>
If you want to run a server you use a Linux/Unix/BSD variant (or if you're
brave Win NT/2000/XP). If you want a home OS you use Win 95/98/Me or Mac OS
(Linux if you're a techie). All operating systems have ideal functions which
they were built for.
So far pretty much all EPOC32 apps have worked across machines because they
have all had similar hardware (and similar functions). The netBook and S7
represent a considerable departure in the hardware running EPOC, as they are
large(r) than previous devices. I don't know about you, but I *definately*
can't fit mine in my pocket - not even wearing combat pants! With a machine
of this size and cost it would be nice to have more functionality than a
5MX.
I know we got a nice keyboard, and a larger colour screen, but what extra
features have we got in the EPOC operating system? None. Zip. Zilch. Zero.
If you want full Infrared support you still need a third party app.
Ethernet? MP3? Palmtop video playback? No....
Don't get me wrong - I love EPOC as a handheld OS, but it isn't really
showing features that are available elsewhere.
> What do you mean by "the future will be in smartphones"? It's perhaps true
> that most money will be made there, but that doesn't mean that Epoc/Symbia
n
> will be endowed with phone features which renders it inoperative on other
> machines.
>
In my (perhaps limited) experience development is driven by commercial
interest. If Nokia are fronting EPOC and their main interest lies, for
example, in broadband via carriers (for which they will get paid) they might
just be a little slow to support other wireless features, like 802.11b
networking.
EPOC will split into various different versions, each optimised for
different hardware requirements. I know that currently there are 3 reference
models, but this will grow as hardware vendors get in on the act. The
applications that run on one version of EPOC will not necessarily run on
them all.
I love the fact that there are so many optimists who read this ng, but I'm
sorry to say that when I come to replace my S7 it'll be with one of these:
http://www.fujitsupc.com/www/products_notebooks.shtml?products/notebooks/p_s
eries
I'll probably have an EPOC phone though ... having said that, I think that
everyone will by then!
Erik Sandblom
anti...@digitalkingdoms.com den 17-12-01 20.33:
>>> EPOC itself is meant for smaller devices.
>>
>> Battery-powered devices, not necessarily small ones. The GUI is most
> suited
>> to a Psion 5, but you can put another GUI on Epoc. Size is irrelevant.
>
> Sorry Erik - you seem to misunderstand me.
I think you should mention whether you mean Epoc the OS, or the applications
that come with it.
> I know we got a nice keyboard, and a larger colour screen, but what extra
> features have we got in the EPOC operating system? None. Zip. Zilch. Zero.
> If you want full Infrared support you still need a third party app.
> Ethernet? MP3? Palmtop video playback? No...
And? Are you interested in my wishlist?
It includes built-in ethernet, bluetooth, full IR, and an address book with
categories, so you can have one category for business and personal, or
categories based on what kind of customer etc. The Nokia has categories, so
maybe there will be one on a future Psion-like device. And I also want more
memory, but that is available now through D&G Upgrades.
>> What do you mean by "the future will be in smartphones"? It's perhaps true
>> that most money will be made there, but that doesn't mean that Epoc/Symbia
> n
>> will be endowed with phone features which renders it inoperative on other
>> machines.
>
> In my (perhaps limited) experience development is driven by commercial
> interest. If Nokia are fronting EPOC and their main interest lies, for
> example, in broadband via carriers (for which they will get paid
Will they?
> ) they might
> just be a little slow to support other wireless features, like 802.11b
> networking.
Thus no change ;-)
> EPOC will split into various different versions, each optimised for
> different hardware requirements. I know that currently there are 3 reference
> models, but this will grow as hardware vendors get in on the act. The
> applications that run on one version of EPOC will not necessarily run on
> them all.
All Symbian devices share the fact that they need to economise on power, and
that they need to communicate with other devices. That all versions of Epoc
won't be interoperable won't be significant since you don't buy the OS, you
buy the machine. Unfortunately the Nokia is very incompatible with ER5
devices because it is Unicode, but that's partly a marketing decision and
can't really be blamed on anyone, certainly not on differing requirements.
The Nokia requires unicode just as much or as little as any Psion.
> I love the fact that there are so many optimists who read this ng, but I'm
> sorry to say that when I come to replace my S7 it'll be with one of these:
> http://www.fujitsupc.com/www/products_notebooks.shtml?products/notebooks/p_s
> eries
To each his own. Perhaps the optimism comes from being happy with the
devices we have now, rather than continually looking round the corner for
something different.
I don't consider myself an optimist when it comes to Psion. That there is no
straight upgrade path for Psioneers now does not mean that there won't be,
esp since we're in the middle of a market downturn. That's just a matter of
fact to me, not an expression of hope.
Kingdoms
> devices we have now, rather than continually looking round the corner for
> something different.
Generally I too am happy with current offerings. It's just that my interest
lies in mobile computing rather than mobile telephony. I'd rather have a
computer with telephonic capibilities than a phone with media capabilities.
However I posted this message with reference to a thread that expressed a
desire for greater functionality.
If there is an EPOC device that can fulfill my future requirements (and I
hope there will be) I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. I love Psion hardware,
but I don't believe that my next machine will be coming from that corner!
> I don't consider myself an optimist when it comes to Psion. That there is
no
> straight upgrade path for Psioneers now does not mean that there won't be,
> esp since we're in the middle of a market downturn. That's just a matter
of
> fact to me, not an expression of hope.
My comment about optimism wasn't intended as an insult! I've found the
people who frequent the comp.sys.psion* newsgroups to be some of the most
friendly and helpful of any newsgroup I've ever read. Also, I believe these
newsgroups are one of the reasons that EPOC will succeed. Whether EPOC will
change along with my/our requirements is yet to be seen.
I know that if I ceased to use/own an EPOC handheld I'd miss this ng...
Erik Sandblom
anti...@digitalkingdoms.com den 17-12-01 23.54:
>> I don't consider myself an optimist when it comes to Psion. That there is
> no
>> straight upgrade path for Psioneers now does not mean that there won't be,
>> esp since we're in the middle of a market downturn. That's just a matter
> of
>> fact to me, not an expression of hope.
>
> My comment about optimism wasn't intended as an insult!
Oh. I'm a bit annoyed by all the "don't hold your breath" posts. Sorry to go
at you.
Martin Nisshagen
"David" <da...@theligger.com> wrote in message
news:ade04082.01121...@posting.google.com...
: Why doesn't anyone develop an MP3 player for the Psion series of
: machines? Forget the obvious "Psion isn't making them anymore.."
: because that's just not an answer - loads of other shareware software
: is being developed still.
I hope you don't miss this new post about it:
news:3c1e7510$0$10214$ba62...@news.skynet.be
Best regards,
m a r t i n | n
--
Martin Nisshagen
mart...@msn.com
http://communities.msn.com/wxp
Mark Rowan
<hognoxio...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Mark Rowan <tam...@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
> news:<4ae6dbd1...@ukgateway.net>...
[Snip]
> > It has a StrongARM clocked at ~190MHz. My 233MHz SA RiscPC can decode
> > in at least 2x realtime (I'm playing one right now, desktop is smooth
> > as ever).
> You can't just compare clock speeds; does one have a floating point
> processor, for example. Somewhere in the symbian dev book (if memory
> serves me well) it mentions that the 5 doesn't, and advises using
> integers. Don't know about the notBook.
AFAIK they're almost identical: NB/S7 is SA1100 @ 190MHz, RiscPC is SA110
(slight difference) @ 202/233MHz
The RiscPC's SA110 certainly doesn't have FP (unfortunately!) so if the
NB/S7 *does* then that's even more of a bonus for it!
Cheers, Mark
--
... Don't worry, I'm fluent in weirdo...
Cheers, | tam...@ukgateway.net - http://www.tamias.ukgateway.net
Mark Rowan.| ZFC-A (S) - ICQ 30759398 - Tamias on IRC (#csn.ml.kids)
------------' DialUp + Pluto, Acorn RiscPC 233(T) + 5x86, 80+1MB, RO4.02
ADFS 2GB, Cumana SCSI 1.2GB, APDL ideA 8GB, DeskFM, Atomwide Fast Serial
Jaimie Vandenbergh
<mart...@msn.com> wrote:
>[ mailed and posted ]
>
>"David" <da...@theligger.com> wrote in message
>news:ade04082.01121...@posting.google.com...
>: Why doesn't anyone develop an MP3 player for the Psion series of
>: machines? Forget the obvious "Psion isn't making them anymore.."
>: because that's just not an answer - loads of other shareware software
>: is being developed still.
>
>I hope you don't miss this new post about it:
>news:3c1e7510$0$10214$ba62...@news.skynet.be
"Sorry, this site has exceeded it's allocated data transfer" and has
been downed by Geocities. Shows there's some interest, mind!
Cheers - Jaimie
--
"And I hope my Sam's behaved hisself and given satisfaction?"
"Perfect satisfaction, Mr. Gamgee," said Frodo.
Kodiak
someone else has said this, but there is an MP3 player out now for the
Psion. Can't remember the web site, but I have a copy of it at home,
so if you want it, email me at kod...@theministryofdefence.com for it.
Rolf Brunsting
<< Surely it can't be that difficult to modify the program to work on
Psions too ... >>
The player for the Nokia 9210 runs on EPOC Release 6 while the Psions
use Releases 5 and 3. Moving the player to the Psions might thus not be
as easy as you think. It could be using EPOC services introduced with
Release 6. It's also possible the player uses the sound codec a mobile
phone's equipped with.
<< BTW, any smart alecs want to show how 'in-touch' they are by
pointing out how "there's no
market" etc.. don't bother, I know we psion users are a small group.
But that shouldn't stop us from trying to keep the machine alive ... >>
When you want to send a petition to RealNetworks it's best to have a
very good think about the issues that could have influenced the company
not to release a RealPlayer for EPOC earlier. As you'll have to address
these issues, including the potential market, in the petition in order
to make RealNetworks change it's mind. Let's face it, the enthusiasm
for Psion products doesn't pay the rent. RealNetworks has to be
approached in such a way that they see a RealPlayer for EPOC Release 5/
3 contributing to the wages the company pays to its employees and to
the dividend it pays out to those who've invested in the company.
The "don't bother" indicates that you're only interested in a
RealPlayer for EPOC Release 5/3 but not in what it takes to turn the
idea into reality. Which is fine, as we're not all entrepreneurs.
However, better not dismiss those who have thought about the market
issues of a RealPlayer as "smart alecs". As they're the people better
equipped to approach RealNetworks in a constructive manner.
Anatoli Arkhipenko
http://www.geocities.com/alexander_zavorine/epoc/mp3.htm