HP200LX Battery Life?
Tony Stevenson
I am contemplating buying a 200LX (because it fits in a pocket and a
Newton doesn't) but am concerned about battery life. I won't be using a
modem but would likely have a 2Mb PCMCIA Flash Card loaded.
Any feedback on how useful the diary and wordprocessing functions would
be useful too.
Thanks.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tony Stevenson - InfoTrek Pty Ltd - Sydney, Australia to...@jolt.mpx.com.au
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all
others because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)
Ted Geist
: I am contemplating buying a 200LX (because it fits in a pocket and a
: Newton doesn't) but am concerned about battery life. I won't be using a
: modem but would likely have a 2Mb PCMCIA Flash Card loaded.
I haven't heard anyone complain about 100/200LX battery life unless they've
got a high-speed pcmcia modem - those things seem to really draw the power.
I have a 100LX & was getting 4+ weeks on each set of alkaline batteries. I
now use Ni-Cd's & recharge once a week - no problems.
: Any feedback on how useful the diary and wordprocessing functions would
: be useful too.
The appointment book application (diary) is great unless you have lots of
overdue todo's or repeating appointments. It can get slow in those cases.
I've learned to clean things up regularly & find it works fine. This app.
is the one I use the most BTW - it's quite powerful & flexible.
I don't consider the memo app. a 'wordprocessor' because of its limited
functionality & the size of the keyboard. I think it's fine for creating
short files but I don't try to write reports or anything w/ it. Others due
however. If you think you'll be wanting to do lots of typing on it I
recommend demo'ing one before you buy.
Hope that helps.
Ted Geist
Dan Buckler
>Sorry if this is an FAQ but I am new around this board.
>I am contemplating buying a 200LX (because it fits in a pocket and a
>Newton doesn't) but am concerned about battery life. I won't be using a
>modem but would likely have a 2Mb PCMCIA Flash Card loaded.
I don't have a 200lx, but HP assures me that only the software has changed
so I expect that the battery life will be the same as my 100lx-2mb:
My machine has a 20mb Epson Flash PCMCIA card
My usage ranges from constant to 5-6 times daily
nicad (millenium brand) - 1 week
alkaline - 2-3 weeks
lithium - 9-12 weeks
>Any feedback on how useful the diary and wordprocessing functions would
>be useful too.
>Thanks.
>--
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Tony Stevenson - InfoTrek Pty Ltd - Sydney, Australia to...@jolt.mpx.com.au
>"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all
>others because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Buckler voice: (408) 426-3436
Buckler Software Consulting email: buc...@netcom.com
Santa Cruz, California fax: (408) 458-3645
Daniel Senie
Newton for my particular application due to size and weight. It simply will
not fit in my pocket.
The Psion 3a appears to be a very slick, and capable little machine. As an
organizer and such it appears well matched to my application. The only thing
that stops me from buying one is that I'd like to take a close look at
the HP 200LX. I have not yet found a store in my area (West of Boston)
that has one on display.
The HP has the ability to run DOS programs, which could be convenient since
I have had more than my share of experience developing for the DOS/Windows
arena, and could certainly generate the DOS apps I want for certain ancillary
functions.
On the Psion, would someone who has programmed on it comment on the ability
to interact with the serial link from programming? I am looking to do program
controlled character I/O, not file transfers, for one thing I'd like to do.
What data rates can the Psion's RS232 interface run at?
On the HP, I have seen reports of slowness of the appointment manager with
many events and alarms set. The primary application I have for a palmtop
is appointment scheduling and alarms. I need something that I carry with me
to beep when I need to be going and doing something else. I also want to keep
a large rolodex of names, etc. (200 or so records) with me. How do the built-in
apps. interact with other programs? Does one shift out of the "canned apps"
mode to get to run DOS apps? Is this a problem?
Finally, I use HEX calculators all day. I own at least 4 HP-16C programmer's
calculators (I bought a bunch of extras when EduCalc was closing out their
stock). I use these because they are absolutely the perfect HEX calculator.
I have heard that the HP 200LX has a hexcalc built in, and wonder about its
capabilities. Could someone who has used it comment?
In general with the HP, does it handle being an RPN calculator? I've used
HP calculators for too long to go back to algebraics. Does the Psion 3a
have an RPN calculator? RPN hex calculator?
Any and all information, ideas, etc. are welcomed.
Thanks!
Dan Senie
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Senie Internet: d...@proteon.com
Proteon, Inc.
508-898-2800 Packet Radio: N1...@KA1SRD.MA
Marc Clarke
: In general with the HP, does it handle being an RPN calculator?
Yes. You can switch the calculator between algebraic and RPN modes.
David Shepherd
: Over the weekend I looked at a Newton and a Psion 3a. I have ruled out the
: Newton for my particular application due to size and weight. It simply will
: not fit in my pocket.
You need the "Newton Suit" as launched in the April 1st issue of the UK
Mac User magazine ... "Just like normal suits but with bigger pockets
and much more expensive".
--
David Shepherd, INMOS ltd, 1000 Aztec West, Almondsbury, Bristol BS12 4SQ
email: d...@inmos.co.uk
tel: +44 (0)454 611 638
[n.b. this message from account at SRF/PACT - please email to inmos.co.uk]
Roger Deschner
>The Psion 3a appears to be a very slick, and capable little machine. As an
>organizer and such it appears well matched to my application. The only thing
>that stops me from buying one is that I'd like to take a close look at
>the HP 200LX. I have not yet found a store in my area (West of Boston)
>that has one on display.
For me, the deciding factor was programmability. Many of these other
palmtops have only limited programmability. I am a hopelessly incurable
fiddler; I won't own something I can't futz with. In this area, the
HP200LX wins hands down, especially since you just create, buy, or
otherwise acquire MS/DOS software to run on it.
>Does one shift out of the "canned apps"
>mode to get to run DOS apps? Is this a problem?
Well, yes and no. It depends on memory. You can create a DOS shell out of
the canned applicaiton suite, but your memory will be limited and your
mileage will vary depending on how much your applicaiton needs. It is
*EXACTLY* like doing a DOS shell out of any other application, with the
same caveats, problems, limitations. Or you can quit the Applicaiton
manager and get the whole 640K.
>Finally, I use HEX calculators all day. I own at least 4 HP-16C programmer's
>calculators (I bought a bunch of extras when EduCalc was closing out their
>stock). I use these because they are absolutely the perfect HEX calculator.
>I have heard that the HP 200LX has a hexcalc built in, and wonder about its
>capabilities. Could someone who has used it comment?
I own a HP16C as well, and I regret not buying another when HP stopped
making them. The HP32S they said replaced it, just does not measure up.
The hex calculator in the HP200LX is undocumented, but it works great,
once you install it into the Application Manager as per the standard
procedure. It is a big step up from the HP32S. It is RPN *only*. :-) :-)
:-) It is a rough emulation of a HP16C, except that the program in the
200LX uses a 32-bit 2's compliment word, while the HP16C is all over the
place and I have suspected that it uses a 56 bit word, but I've never
bothered figuring it out. I once figured out how to set a 32-bit 2's
compliment word on the HP16C, but I could not figure out how to save that
setting permanently. Therefore, I actually regard the word structure of
200LX software to be superior to the 16, since the computers I deal with
all use 32 bit 2's compliment words.
(If you need to ask what 2's compliment is, you probably don't need a hex
calculator!)
>In general with the HP, does it handle being an RPN calculator? I've used
>HP calculators for too long to go back to algebraics. Does the Psion 3a
>have an RPN calculator? RPN hex calculator?
>
As a fellow RPN person, once I found the setting, I have never undone it,
since RPN is, of course, how ALL calculators should work. The HP200LX
calculator works great in RPN mode, but I have no way of comparing it
with backwards (i.e. algebraic) mode because I refuse to ever use it.
Beware that RPN vs. Algebraic is one of those religious arguments with
zealots on both sides, just like the other food-fights we are familiar
with like Macintosh vs IBM/Intel/MS, Unix vs anything-but-Unix, my editor
vs your editor, and so on. So don't tread too heavily on this issue,
although of course, RPN is the right way.
(Another reason to get a 200LX - I can indulge all my religious
preferences, such as MY editor (KEDIT), MY comm program (MS-Kermit),
and all the other preferences, beliefs, glitches, and nervous ticks I
have added to MY computing environment over the years. You can do
likewise.)
Roger Deschner University of Illinois at Chicago R.Des...@uic.edu
Frank Wales
>[...] It is a rough emulation of a HP16C, except that the program in the
>200LX uses a 32-bit 2's compliment word, while the HP16C is all over the
>place and I have suspected that it uses a 56 bit word, but I've never
>bothered figuring it out. I once figured out how to set a 32-bit 2's
>compliment word on the HP16C, but I could not figure out how to save that
>setting permanently. Therefore, I actually regard the word structure of
>200LX software to be superior to the 16, since the computers I deal with
>all use 32 bit 2's compliment words.
The HP-16C supports word sizes from 1 to 64 bits, with unsigned, 1's and
2's complement arithmetic modes. I haven't yet found any other calculator
that can match its flexibility, especially given that it is programmable,
but I also haven't found too many needs for it (I could count on the
fingers of about 1.4 hands the number of times its programmability has
come in handy during the last decade or so, for an indispensibility rating
of around 0.8 EMUPYs*). Despite that, I still carry one in the nylon thingy
that stands in for a briefcase, and mine are not for sale.
FYI, it does use a 56-bit word internally.
ObOnTopicComment: Buy the 200LX, it's better than the Psion 3a.
*) EMUPY == Essential Moments of Usefulness Per Year.
--
Frank Wales, ArcGlade Services Ltd, Kingston, UK [fr...@arcglade.demon.co.uk]
Daniel Senie
>>
>>The Psion 3a appears to be a very slick, and capable little machine. As an
>>organizer and such it appears well matched to my application. The only thing
>>that stops me from buying one is that I'd like to take a close look at
>>the HP 200LX. I have not yet found a store in my area (West of Boston)
>>that has one on display.
>
>For me, the deciding factor was programmability. Many of these other
>palmtops have only limited programmability. I am a hopelessly incurable
>fiddler; I won't own something I can't futz with. In this area, the
>HP200LX wins hands down, especially since you just create, buy, or
>otherwise acquire MS/DOS software to run on it.
Actually, the Psion 3a has a variety of programmability options, from C code
to an interpretive language. Of course all of my DOS/Windows development tools
WILL target the HP, but not the Psion.
>
>>Does one shift out of the "canned apps"
>>mode to get to run DOS apps? Is this a problem?
>
>Well, yes and no. It depends on memory. You can create a DOS shell out of
>the canned applicaiton suite, but your memory will be limited and your
>mileage will vary depending on how much your applicaiton needs. It is
>*EXACTLY* like doing a DOS shell out of any other application, with the
>same caveats, problems, limitations. Or you can quit the Applicaiton
>manager and get the whole 640K.
OK, a few questions, then. I spent an hour in Service Merchandise playing
with an HP 200LX (they only carry the 1MB version) and could NOT find a way
to "quit the Application Manager". I did find that I could reboot the machine
and stay outside of the app. mgr. that way, but I don't think this is a very
clean way to do things. What is the proper method?
The amount of memory available when shelling out to DOS was about 64K. I guess
my big complaint is that the canned applications and such could have been
treated as special cases and swapped out better at the point where a DOS prompt
was desired.
What I REALLY would want (and perhaps this works, somehow) is to be able to
assign an icon to my various DOS programs, and be able to launch them from
the Application Manager. The programs would still need most of the 640K space,
to be usable, though.
How does one create App-Mgr compliant programs (EXM's?) and do they get
more than a tiny morsel of memory?
>
>>Finally, I use HEX calculators all day. I own at least 4 HP-16C programmer's
>>calculators (I bought a bunch of extras when EduCalc was closing out their
>>stock). I use these because they are absolutely the perfect HEX calculator.
>>I have heard that the HP 200LX has a hexcalc built in, and wonder about its
>>capabilities. Could someone who has used it comment?
>
>I own a HP16C as well, and I regret not buying another when HP stopped
>making them. The HP32S they said replaced it, just does not measure up.
>The hex calculator in the HP200LX is undocumented, but it works great,
>once you install it into the Application Manager as per the standard
>procedure. It is a big step up from the HP32S. It is RPN *only*. :-) :-)
>:-) It is a rough emulation of a HP16C, except that the program in the
>200LX uses a 32-bit 2's compliment word, while the HP16C is all over the
>place and I have suspected that it uses a 56 bit word, but I've never
>bothered figuring it out. I once figured out how to set a 32-bit 2's
>compliment word on the HP16C, but I could not figure out how to save that
>setting permanently. Therefore, I actually regard the word structure of
>200LX software to be superior to the 16, since the computers I deal with
>all use 32 bit 2's compliment words.
On the HP16C, get into DECIMAL binary mode, enter the number of bits
you want in the word into the display, then use Fn wsize (gold over STO
key). That sets your word size as needed. Set the complement
separately with the gold labels over the 1, 2, and 3 keys. I got my
first HP16C back in 1984 or so. Does the hexcalc on the 200LX handle
shifts, rotates, 16 bit word lengths, unsigned and 2's comp., etc.? I
use all these features daily on the 16C. I am starting to think that
I should ignore calculators as part of the palmtop decision, and just
keep one of the 16Cs with me as well. I'm not sure I will be happy
with anything less. HP should really reconsider dropping this calculator!
>>In general with the HP, does it handle being an RPN calculator? I've used
>>HP calculators for too long to go back to algebraics. Does the Psion 3a
>>have an RPN calculator? RPN hex calculator?
>>
>
>(Another reason to get a 200LX - I can indulge all my religious
>preferences, such as MY editor (KEDIT), MY comm program (MS-Kermit),
>and all the other preferences, beliefs, glitches, and nervous ticks I
>have added to MY computing environment over the years. You can do
>likewise.)
I guess my remaining concern is that to run MY editor (brief) or other
DOS apps, I'll be exiting the app manager a lot. The BIG concern I have
with this is over the ALARM function. First and foremost I am buying a
palmtop to keep myself ontime for appointments and meetings. If the
appointment manager and alarms only function when the app mgr is running,
and I have to exit the app mgr to run any of my other programs, then
the HP 200 LX will not be for me. Comments?
Dan
Andrew Gryc
: OK, a few questions, then. I spent an hour in Service Merchandise playing
: with an HP 200LX (they only carry the 1MB version) and could NOT find a way
: to "quit the Application Manager". I did find that I could reboot the machine
: and stay outside of the app. mgr. that way, but I don't think this is a very
: clean way to do things. What is the proper method?
Go into the Application Manager (More key). Menu, Application,
Terminate All. That's the "clean" way of exiting the System Manager.
: The amount of memory available when shelling out to DOS was about 64K. I guess
: my big complaint is that the canned applications and such could have been
: treated as special cases and swapped out better at the point where a DOS prompt
: was desired.
The default is 64K (actually 96K minus overhead) so that if you just shell
to DOS to run built-in DOS commands you don't hog a lot of conventional
memory. This is settable in the Setup application--my setting is 256K
which is adequate for the things I do.
: What I REALLY would want (and perhaps this works, somehow) is to be able to
: assign an icon to my various DOS programs, and be able to launch them from
: the Application Manager. The programs would still need most of the 640K space,
: to be usable, though.
You can do this. You can assign the amount of memory you want for that
particular program, but leave the default DOS box size set to something
else. You can also set up the application to use the remaining amount
of conventional memory, whatever that is. Do this by putting a vertical
bar followed by the amount (in K bytes) of memory you want to reserve
for that program.
: How does one create App-Mgr compliant programs (EXM's?) and do they get
: more than a tiny morsel of memory?
You need the ISV kit to create EXM applications--talk to Paul Swadener
at paul_s...@hp6400.desk.hp.com. An EXM is a small model application
for convience (64K data, 64K code), but you can allocate dynamic memory
to fill remaining memory if you want to.
: On the HP16C, get into DECIMAL binary mode, enter the number of bits
: you want in the word into the display, then use Fn wsize (gold over STO
: key). That sets your word size as needed. Set the complement
: separately with the gold labels over the 1, 2, and 3 keys. I got my
: first HP16C back in 1984 or so. Does the hexcalc on the 200LX handle
: shifts, rotates, 16 bit word lengths, unsigned and 2's comp., etc.? I
: use all these features daily on the 16C. I am starting to think that
: I should ignore calculators as part of the palmtop decision, and just
: keep one of the 16Cs with me as well. I'm not sure I will be happy
: with anything less. HP should really reconsider dropping this calculator!
Hexcalc on the 200LX handles shift, not rotate. The word size is fixed
at 32 bits, and it treats hex,bin,oct as unsigned, and decimal as signed.
Only 2's compliment is supported. However, I wrote it, so if you want
the source code for it, I'd be happy to send it to you and you can hack
it up however you want. (I believe it comes in the ISV kit anyway,
which you'd need to make an EXM out of it.)
: I guess my remaining concern is that to run MY editor (brief) or other
: DOS apps, I'll be exiting the app manager a lot. The BIG concern I have
: with this is over the ALARM function. First and foremost I am buying a
: palmtop to keep myself ontime for appointments and meetings. If the
: appointment manager and alarms only function when the app mgr is running,
: and I have to exit the app mgr to run any of my other programs, then
: the HP 200 LX will not be for me. Comments?
It depends. If you assumed you can't run your editor because you
were under the impression the DOS box is too small, that size is settable.
You probably *can* run your editor in a DOS box under the system
manager, in which case you *will* get alarms.
If you do need to quit the System Manager altogether, you're right--
you won't get alarms. On my machine however, dropping to a DOS box from
the Filer (which automatically gives you all remaining memory), I've
got 357K free. This could be optimized somewhat, but I'm pretty happy
with the setup I've got.
--Andy Gryc (an...@cv.hp.com)
Ted Geist
: OK, a few questions, then. I spent an hour in Service Merchandise playing
: with an HP 200LX (they only carry the 1MB version) and could NOT find a way
: to "quit the Application Manager". I did find that I could reboot the machine
: and stay outside of the app. mgr. that way, but I don't think this is a very
: clean way to do things. What is the proper method?
From within the application mgr. enter: menu, application, terminate all.
: What I REALLY would want (and perhaps this works, somehow) is to be able to
: assign an icon to my various DOS programs, and be able to launch them from
: the Application Manager. The programs would still need most of the 640K space,
: to be usable, though.
You _can_ launch DOS programs from within the app. mgr. as you described.
The memory you're wanting to give them sounds like an issue though.
Hope this helps.
Ted Geist
Albert Nurick
: (Another reason to get a 200LX - I can indulge all my religious
: preferences, such as MY editor (KEDIT), MY comm program (MS-Kermit),
: and all the other preferences, beliefs, glitches, and nervous ticks I
: have added to MY computing environment over the years. You can do
: likewise.)
This (IMO) is a strong point for the 100/200LX for the computer user. It
lets you do things *your* way. In my case, that means running PathMinder
and Agenda in addition to the nifty built-in apps.
Other PDAs force you into proprietary solutions... not necessarily bad, but
different.
--
| Albert Nurick | "In case of doubt, decide in favor of |
| alb...@bga.com | what is correct." |
| http://www.realtime.net/~albert | -- Karl Kraus |
Albert Nurick
: Daniel Senie (d...@proteon.com) wrote:
: : OK, a few questions, then. I spent an hour in Service Merchandise playing
: : with an HP 200LX (they only carry the 1MB version) and could NOT find a way
: : to "quit the Application Manager". I did find that I could reboot the machine
: : and stay outside of the app. mgr. that way, but I don't think this is a very
: : clean way to do things. What is the proper method?
: Go into the Application Manager (More key). Menu, Application,
: Terminate All. That's the "clean" way of exiting the System Manager.
And if it's something you do frequently (as I do), it's a perfect
application for a system macro. On my 100LX, Fn-F10 does
{More}{Menu}at{F10}
This takes you out from anywhere in the system. The only problem is a
single beep if you're already in the application manager.
Daniel T Senie
>Roger Deschner (U52...@uicvm.uic.edu) wrote:
>: (Another reason to get a 200LX - I can indulge all my religious
>: preferences, such as MY editor (KEDIT), MY comm program (MS-Kermit),
>: and all the other preferences, beliefs, glitches, and nervous ticks I
>: have added to MY computing environment over the years. You can do
>: likewise.)
>
>This (IMO) is a strong point for the 100/200LX for the computer user. It
>lets you do things *your* way. In my case, that means running PathMinder
>and Agenda in addition to the nifty built-in apps.
Do your alarms for the appointment APP still go off when you've exited out
to run an application that needs the full machine as a 640K DOS machine?
If not, then having this ability to exit out to apps will mean that I miss
appointments...
>
>Other PDAs force you into proprietary solutions... not necessarily bad, but
>different.
Proprietary, or simply embedded. DOS, after all, is Microsoft's thing. If
someone else provides an environment and you can program to it, then things
are workable. Sure, I'd like to run my DOS programs, but not at the expense of
missing meetings.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Senie Internet: d...@world.std.com
Daniel Senie Consulting n1...@world.std.com
508-779-0439 Compuserve: 74176,1347
Albert Nurick
: In article <33b587$7...@giga.bga.com>, Albert Nurick <alb...@bga.com> wrote:
: >Roger Deschner (U52...@uicvm.uic.edu) wrote:
: >: (Another reason to get a 200LX - I can indulge all my religious
: >: preferences, such as MY editor (KEDIT), MY comm program (MS-Kermit),
: >: and all the other preferences, beliefs, glitches, and nervous ticks I
: >: have added to MY computing environment over the years. You can do
: >: likewise.)
: >
: >This (IMO) is a strong point for the 100/200LX for the computer user. It
: >lets you do things *your* way. In my case, that means running PathMinder
: >and Agenda in addition to the nifty built-in apps.
: Do your alarms for the appointment APP still go off when you've exited out
: to run an application that needs the full machine as a 640K DOS machine?
: If not, then having this ability to exit out to apps will mean that I miss
: appointments...
Depends on the application. Many run under the system manager, but some
programs demand a huge amount of RAM, and thus require a shutdown, which
will inhibit the built-in alarms. For me, only Agenda requires this.
I'm tempted to write a small TSR that looks at the appointment book and
beeps at the next alarm... perhaps when time permits.
: >
: >Other PDAs force you into proprietary solutions... not necessarily bad, but
: >different.
: Proprietary, or simply embedded. DOS, after all, is Microsoft's thing.
Right. It's also the OS used on more computers than any other, and with the
largest base of available software. I'd estimate the software base for the
100LX to be 1000x bigger than for the most popular non-DOS PDA.
: If someone else provides an environment and you can program to it,
then things are workable.
*If* you're a programmer, and if you have the time to invest. I was quite
pleased to be able to run Agenda after spending only 10 minutes installing
it on the 100LX.
: Sure, I'd like to run my DOS programs, but not at the expense of
: missing meetings.
Good point. That's why I shut down Agenda when I'm not using it, and
restart the PIM software. :-) You're not forced to use DOS programs, but
it's a nice option. I also love the ability to read electronic texts; I DL
lots of text files from the 'net, and read them on the 100LX.
Mario Camou
[...Stuff deleted...]
Hexcalc on the 200LX handles shift, not rotate. The word size is fixed
at 32 bits, and it treats hex,bin,oct as unsigned, and decimal as signed.
Only 2's compliment is supported. However, I wrote it, so if you want
the source code for it, I'd be happy to send it to you and you can hack
it up however you want. (I believe it comes in the ISV kit anyway,
which you'd need to make an EXM out of it.)
[...Stuff deleted...]
--Andy Gryc (an...@cv.hp.com)
Is hexcalc available on the 100LX? If not, is there a way to get it?
Thanx,
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mario Camou | MS-DOS is a bug
EDS Mexico Client-Server Technical Support | MS-Windows is a bug with a GUI
mario...@eng.eds.com | Linux: the best debugger
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My opinions are only mine, mine, MINE!
Paul Ducklin
>2's complement arithmetic modes. I haven't yet found any other calculator
>that can match its flexibility, especially given that it is programmable,
>but I also haven't found too many needs for it (I could count on the
>fingers of about 1.4 hands the number of times its programmability has
>come in handy during the last decade or so, for an indispensibility rating
Here's something which has been worrying me since the HP-16C wordsize
entered discussion a few days ago: what happens if you set the word-
size to 1? 'Cos then you can't set it back to 2 in order to set it to
3, in order to set it to...you get the picture. Not ever having had
a manual since it was issued to me by my employer many years ago...I
decided to risk it! You can indeed set the wordsize to 1, which limits,
as it should, your entry of numbers to 0 and 1. Apart from going back
into float mode and then back again into binary, it turns out they must
have thought of this! Entering a wordsize of 0 actually selects 64 :-)
ObUsefulUseFor16CProgammingCapability: great when you are doing, say,
a hard disc data recovery of a DOS drive, and you want to hack about
with physical-to-logical translations, cluster-number-toTrackHeadSector
conversions, that kind of thing. Also kewel for quick-'n-dirty things
like unravelling some of the trivial XOR encryptions that many viruses
use on their messages...
Now, if the 16C could be used to post News, then it would be *the* palmtop :-)
Paul
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\ Paul Ducklin du...@nuustak.csir.co.za /
/ CSIR Computer Virus Lab + Box 395 + Pretoria + 0001 S Africa \
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Daniel T Senie
Paul Ducklin <du...@nuustak.csir.co.za> wrote:
>>The HP-16C supports word sizes from 1 to 64 bits, with unsigned, 1's and
>>2's complement arithmetic modes. I haven't yet found any other calculator
>>that can match its flexibility, especially given that it is programmable,
>>but I also haven't found too many needs for it (I could count on the
>>fingers of about 1.4 hands the number of times its programmability has
>>come in handy during the last decade or so, for an indispensibility rating
>
>Here's something which has been worrying me since the HP-16C wordsize
>entered discussion a few days ago: what happens if you set the word-
>size to 1? 'Cos then you can't set it back to 2 in order to set it to
>3, in order to set it to...you get the picture. Not ever having had
>a manual since it was issued to me by my employer many years ago...I
>decided to risk it! You can indeed set the wordsize to 1, which limits,
>as it should, your entry of numbers to 0 and 1. Apart from going back
>into float mode and then back again into binary, it turns out they must
>have thought of this! Entering a wordsize of 0 actually selects 64 :-)
Ah, I just tried this. The way back is to go to floating point mode
(aka normal calculator mode with gold-FLOAT-2) then enter 32 (or whatever
number of bits) gold-WSIZE. That gets you out of a most useless 1 bit mode!
Or use the zero trick you found... I'll have to remember that one...
>
>ObUsefulUseFor16CProgammingCapability: great when you are doing, say,
>a hard disc data recovery of a DOS drive, and you want to hack about
>with physical-to-logical translations, cluster-number-toTrackHeadSector
>conversions, that kind of thing. Also kewel for quick-'n-dirty things
>like unravelling some of the trivial XOR encryptions that many viruses
>use on their messages...
>
>Now, if the 16C could be used to post News, then it would be *the* palmtop :-)
>
>Paul
Dan
Scott Johnson
In article <Cv40x...@world.std.com> d...@world.std.com (Daniel T Senie) writes:
dts> In article <33is9m...@nuustak.csir.co.za>,
dts> Paul Ducklin <du...@nuustak.csir.co.za> wrote:
>> Apart from going back
>> into float mode and then back again into binary, it turns out they must
>> have thought of this! Entering a wordsize of 0 actually selects 64 :-)
dts> Ah, I just tried this. The way back is to go to floating point mode
dts> (aka normal calculator mode with gold-FLOAT-2) then enter 32 (or whatever
dts> number of bits) gold-WSIZE. That gets you out of a most useless 1 bit mode!
dts> Or use the zero trick you found... I'll have to remember that one...
That is what the manual says to do to get out of wordsize 1... use
wordsize 0... whaddya want to bet that they found that one out pretty
late in the design cycle???
--
--srj Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy
o_O and good with ketchup. --Unknown
=( ) = -----------------------------------------------------------
U Ack! Scott Johnson 3Com Corporation s...@3com.com 408-764-6248
David Hamachek
own apps. This is OK if you have the time AND if you do not have
to exchange files with anyone else. Dealing with a lot of different
file formats when you're writing your own apps is a pain. With the 200LX,
you just run the DOS program that created the file or find a translator
someone else already wrote.
Daniel T Senie
This is something of a misconception. The DOS programs which run on a PC
are of the variety which support CGA and are simple DOS programs. This is
no longer the common item people are developing. I carefully considered
this point when comparing the 3a and the 200lx. I sure have the tools to
generate apps for the 200LX, but that's not why I wanted to get a palmtop.
I do want the ABILITY to gnerate apps, IF NEEDED, but the built-in apps
and freeware/shareware need to be good.
For the Psion 3a there is quite an array of software available of the
freeware and shareware variety, a fair number of commercial packages,
and plenty of programming capability built in. If I'm going to write my
own stuff, I've got a choice of OPL, which is sort of BASIC-like, and quick to
work in, or I can use a C compiler and write code which executes as pure
binary. Seems to be OK to me.
In the end I felt it was pretty much a draw on the programming front, and
went on to compare other features. I wanted to be able to type comfortably
(in a relative sense) and found that the keyboard in the 3a was better for
me.
Albert Nurick
: This is something of a misconception. The DOS programs which run on a PC
: are of the variety which support CGA and are simple DOS programs. This is
: no longer the common item people are developing.
There are thousands and thousands of applications which run on the
100/200LX. The current Windows stuff won't, but often the older DOS
software that's perfect has become inexpensive.
: For the Psion 3a there is quite an array of software available of the
: freeware and shareware variety, a fair number of commercial packages,
: and plenty of programming capability built in. If I'm going to write my
: own stuff, I've got a choice of OPL, which is sort of BASIC-like, and quick to
: work in, or I can use a C compiler and write code which executes as pure
: binary. Seems to be OK to me.
Like anything else, it comes down to personal preference. If the
application you need exists for the Psion, you're in luck. If not, perhaps
the 100/200LX is better.
: In the end I felt it was pretty much a draw on the programming front, and
: went on to compare other features.
Really? If you don't like the 2 or 3 Psion tools, you're out of luck.
There are literally hundreds of choices for the 100LX developer.
Daniel T Senie
>d...@world.std.com (Daniel T Senie (d...@world.std.com)) wrote:
>: This is something of a misconception. The DOS programs which run on a PC
>: are of the variety which support CGA and are simple DOS programs. This is
>: no longer the common item people are developing.
>
>There are thousands and thousands of applications which run on the
>100/200LX. The current Windows stuff won't, but often the older DOS
>software that's perfect has become inexpensive.
Right. I've developed LOADS of software for DOS machines. I have not done
so for several years, because the market is not there. I do write some
Windows stuff, and all the applications I use are Windows-based.
I could have pulled out some of my old DOS-based software and used it if
I had gotten an HP. Ultimately I decided I had very little interest in
pulling out any of this software. I had replaced it all with newer apps
for a reason! I like the newer stuff.
>
>: For the Psion 3a there is quite an array of software available of the
>: freeware and shareware variety, a fair number of commercial packages,
>: and plenty of programming capability built in. If I'm going to write my
>: own stuff, I've got a choice of OPL, which is sort of BASIC-like, and quick to
>: work in, or I can use a C compiler and write code which executes as pure
>: binary. Seems to be OK to me.
>
>Like anything else, it comes down to personal preference. If the
>application you need exists for the Psion, you're in luck. If not, perhaps
>the 100/200LX is better.
If the application exists for the 100/200 you're in luck, if not
perhaps the 3a is better. Depends on your application and what you want.
>
>: In the end I felt it was pretty much a draw on the programming front, and
>: went on to compare other features.
>
>Really? If you don't like the 2 or 3 Psion tools, you're out of luck.
>There are literally hundreds of choices for the 100LX developer.
So, there are hundreds of choices for creating EXM files which run under
the organizer? If I'm going to have apps on the palmtop, I like the concept
of having them work in the style of the palmtop. I feel the same way with
Windows. Sure you CAN run DOS programs under Windows, but running Windows
applications affords you a set of apps in which all the apps have the same
interface styles.
Different folks will have different constraints on what they are willing
to accept. I did not need to buy yet-another DOS machine. If it ran Windows
apps, then there'd have been a reason to reconsider...
Albert Nurick
: >There are thousands and thousands of applications which run on the
: >100/200LX. The current Windows stuff won't, but often the older DOS
: >software that's perfect has become inexpensive.
: Right. I've developed LOADS of software for DOS machines. I have not done
: so for several years, because the market is not there. I do write some
: Windows stuff, and all the applications I use are Windows-based.
Me too, in general. The only DOS app I use frequently is Lotus Agenda.
: I could have pulled out some of my old DOS-based software and used it if
: I had gotten an HP. Ultimately I decided I had very little interest in
: pulling out any of this software. I had replaced it all with newer apps
: for a reason! I like the newer stuff.
Good point. But in many cases, the old stuff is quite useful; typically
*much* more useful than what's built into a palmtop for certain
applications.
I'd prefer a palmtop that will run my WinApps, but that's a while off.
: >Like anything else, it comes down to personal preference. If the
: >application you need exists for the Psion, you're in luck. If not, perhaps
: >the 100/200LX is better.
: If the application exists for the 100/200 you're in luck, if not
: perhaps the 3a is better. Depends on your application and what you want.
Considering the amount of software that runs on the 3a, and the amount of
software that runs on the 100/200LX, I would probably be underestimating if
I said you'd have a 5,000x better chance of finding it for the 100/200LX.
: >Really? If you don't like the 2 or 3 Psion tools, you're out of luck.
: >There are literally hundreds of choices for the 100LX developer.
: So, there are hundreds of choices for creating EXM files which run under
: the organizer?
Nope. But .EXEs run fine under the system manager, if they're not too big.
Good examples I have on my machine are VR (vertical reader for text files)
and blackjack, both available via FTP from eddie.mit.edu.
: If I'm going to have apps on the palmtop, I like the concept
: of having them work in the style of the palmtop.
Certainly a nice thing, but I'd rather have the functionality in a different
"style" than not at all.
: I feel the same way with
: Windows. Sure you CAN run DOS programs under Windows, but running Windows
: applications affords you a set of apps in which all the apps have the same
: interface styles.
Again, if possible. I find the functionality of a program like Lotus Agenda
to far outweigh any annoyances of its interface, but YMMV.
: Different folks will have different constraints on what they are willing
: to accept. I did not need to buy yet-another DOS machine. If it ran Windows
: apps, then there'd have been a reason to reconsider...
Exactly. Sounds like the 3a is right for you.