GMHS / SMTP questions
RaganK
post.
Greetings:
These questions may only be answered by someone from Novell (Julie?). But
any info from anyone is appreciated.
We're getting ready to do some more testing with GMHS on a NetWare 3.11
and
4.02 or 4.1 servers. We tried implementing GMHS (2.0b) with the SMTP
module
(1.0b) last fall on three 1000-user 3.11 servers. Although the GMHS
software did OK, the SMTP module bombed BIG time. It couldn't handle the
heavy SMTP traffic going in and out (about 4000 - 5000 messages per day).
It especially choked when trying to send to unknown SMTP hosts. As I
recall,
practically all local GMHS traffic came to a standstill until the SMTP
outbound
queue was finished processing messages. We even set up two SMTP modules
on different servers (one inbound, one outbound). The result: About 1200
messages backed up for over two days. Not acceptable to our customer!
In any event, we stayed with MHS 1.5 and a third party SMTP gateway
because
at least it was stable. We then made improvements on that backend. Now,
we're looking at trying GMHS again as possible replacement solution. I
would like to go to NetWare 4.02 or 4.1 on our mail servers (3 - 1000
user), so I have some questions:
Is GMHS fully implemented now with NDS in NetWare 4.1? If not, will it
be?
Is GMHS 2.0d the latest version and does that only work with 4.02 in
bindery
emulation mode? What's the future of GMHS with Novell? Will it be
supported
2 - 3 years down the road?
Also, when is the SMTP module 2.0 going to be released? Will this
integrate with the NetWare 4.1 MHS Services? If not, why not?
Please respond by e-mail, if possible. Thanks much.
Kimbal Ragan
(rag...@istc.wpafb.af.mil)
88 CG/SCST
Wright-Patterson AFB, OH
F. Peter Cruikshank
>From: rag...@aol.com (RaganK)
>Subject: GMHS / SMTP questions
>Date: 31 Jan 1995 12:36:40 -0500
OK, let me take a stab at your questions. Next to Julie, we have probably had
the most experience.
>These questions may only be answered by someone from
Novell (Julie?). But>any info from anyone is appreciated.
>STUFF DELETED
>Is GMHS fully implemented now with NDS in NetWare 4.1? If not, will it
>be?
Depends what you mean by fully implemented. Yes you can run GMHS on top of
NetWare v4.01, v4.02, or v4.1. However, MHS essentially goes away under v4.1.
You now have NetWare 4 Messaging Services. In reality, you no longer have a
separate database for GMHS -- NetWare 4 Messaging Services uses the NDS as its
database. You one (1) line to the User's object (detailed information) to
tell NDS which file server is the mail server (for that user) and you are
rolling. There is a new Admin utility for Messaging which will extract the
data, etc. What eMail frontend are you using? Some of the MHS vendors are
working on writing directly to the NDS rather than using an extract file.
These products will be extremely integrated with Novell making
synchronization, etc. very clean and highly optimized. I have taken DaVinci
v3.0 and run it on top of NetWare 4 Messaging -- worked without a hitch. I
still have to run an extract (at least at this time) -- but I don't have to
worry about GMHS sychronization. You can run GMHS on one of your NetWare 4.1
servers to connect to other GMHS (NetWare v4.02 and NetWare v3.x) servers.
There is not a SMTP gateway for NetWare 4 Messaging today -- but I understand
this should be shipping in February.
>Is GMHS 2.0d the latest version and does that only work with 4.02 in
>bindery emulation mode?
GMHS 2.0d is the current version and works with both NetWare v4.01, v4.02,
v4.1, and v3.x. They solved many of the sychronization problems that were
found in 2.0b and 2.0c.
>What's the future of GMHS with Novell? Will it be supported
>2 - 3 years down the road?
From everything I have been told -- YES. However, you will see a convergence
of MHS and GroupWise. You will have a variety of frontends (e.g. GroupWise,
SMF-71, and others) that will all use the same Backend engine.
>Also, when is the SMTP module 2.0 going to be released?
I think this is in Beta right now.
>Will this integrate with the NetWare 4.1 MHS Services? If not, why not?
I think you will see a different product for NetWare 4.1 Messaging Services,
but works similar to the old SMTP (e.g. convert SMF-71 to SMTP).
Julie Dickinson
>we're looking at trying GMHS again as possible replacement solution. I
>would like to go to NetWare 4.02 or 4.1 on our mail servers (3 - 1000
>user), so I have some questions:
>
>Is GMHS fully implemented now with NDS in NetWare 4.1?
No.
>If not, will it be?
My guess is no. The reason is that NetWare 4.1 has its own MHS solution
included with it - MHS Services for NetWare 4.1. MHS Services is strongly
integrated with NDS.
>Is GMHS 2.0d the latest version and does that only work with 4.02 in
>bindery emulation mode?
Yes and yes.
>What's the future of GMHS with Novell? Will it be supported
>2 - 3 years down the road?
You'd have to ask Marketing what their plans are. They don't tell me
a whole heck of a lot....
>Also, when is the SMTP module 2.0 going to be released?
There is a new version of SMTP for Global MHS currently under development.
It will be released when it's ready, ie when it looks robust and stable,
no serious bugs, major features work, beta sites all love it, etc. At
this time, I can't make any guesses about a release date.
>Will this integrate with the NetWare 4.1 MHS Services?
No, this will be an update/new version of SMTP for Global MHS.
>If not, why not?
Engineering hasn't yet made an SMTP for MHS Services. I believe that's
high on their priority list, but I haven't heard any proposed schedules
from Marketing recently.
julie (julie dickinson, jdic...@novell.com
Greengw
horribly confused this "messaging strategy" really is. We have been
waiting for all of the pieces to fall into place, and particularly were
waiting on 4.1 because we were told (by Novell) some time ago that this is
when Global MHS (or whatever it's called this week) would finally be
integrated with NDS. So, now I understand that the so called "MHS" that
ships with 4.1 isn't really GMHS (or whatever it's called this week) but
is in fact completely separate and completely unable to integrate with
anything outside a single 4.1 NDS Tree. So, let me get this straight: if
I only want to send mail to myself I can use 4.1 ; if I want to send mail
to anyone else I need to use 4.02, NGM (or whatever it's called this
week), and the SMTP Protocol module. BUT, the shipping SMTP Protocol
module is seriously broken and there is no sign on the horizon of the
fixed version, SO... I guess we stick with MHS 1.5 and continue waiting
for some kind of coherent messaging solution from Novell. Hmmm, maybe
it's time to start looking at a different mail transport...
Gerry Green
gre...@aol.com or gre...@ase.wpafb.af.mil
Julie Dickinson
<snip>
>So, now I understand that the so called "MHS" that
>ships with 4.1 isn't really GMHS (or whatever it's called this week) but
>is in fact completely separate and completely unable to integrate with
>anything outside a single 4.1 NDS Tree.
Yes. And that restriction of "single 4.1 NDS tree" is a NetWare 4.1
restriction, not an MHS Services restriction.
>So, let me get this straight: if
>I only want to send mail to myself I can use 4.1 ; if I want to send mail
>to anyone else I need to use 4.02, NGM (or whatever it's called this
>week), and the SMTP Protocol module.
Yes. You could use 3.11/3.12 instead of 4.02 for your Global MHS if you
wanted.
>BUT, the shipping SMTP Protocol
>module is seriously broken and there is no sign on the horizon of the
>fixed version, SO...
I, personally and professionally, don't agree with the "seriously broken"
part. There are some bugs in the shipping version. MHS Engineering is
actively working on the next version which has most (all?) of them fixed.
And I, personally and professionally, never state possible dates when
an unreleased product might be released - that's the privilege of
Marketing.
julie (julie dickinson, jdic...@novell.com)
Greengw
somewhat at the mercy of your marketing department. However, we have
really had it with Novell's messaging solutions. Several years ago we
bought in to GMHS or NGM or Global MHS, because it was supposed to be THE
future -- we've owned three 1000 user copies of this product since version
1.0. A year or so ago we were told that the whole thing would finally
come together when 4.1 shipped, and now apparently, we have to wait yet
another year until something called CMS ships. This is infuriating to us
and to our customer -- we had other options for mail transports but chose
Novell, and now we're sorry.
We've been waiting to install GMHS because the SMTP portion is very
important to us, but unfortunately the existing version can't handle the
traffic loads generated on our system. We generate between 4 and 5
thousand messages in and out every day -- when we tried to install global
MHS and the SMTP Protocol Module we were backed up by several hundred
messages within less than an hour. If I remember right it wouldn't
translate inbound mail from RFC822 to SMF format until all outbound mail
had been sent. We even setup a second configuration with two SMTP
protocol modules (one in and one out), however, the inbound host insisted
on trying to send back the error messages even though it was configured to
only receive.
Before we even got to the point of turning it on we ran into a bug with
the directory synchronization between the three GMHS Hosts -- our script
files installed approximately 1000 users on each of three hosts at the
same time. One of the three servers started refusing mail from the other
two (unknown SMF Format) before the directory synchronization could
complete and after a number of attempts at fixing this our only option was
to reinstall GMHS. Eventually we setup the three hosts without directory
synchronization since this seemed to be broken. This was the third time
in as many weeks that one of the GMHS installations had become corrupt to
the point that we had to reinstall GMHS on all three. Reinstalling GMHS
seemed to be quicker than removing directory synchronization, reinstalling
just the corrupt server, and then reinstalling directory synchronization.
I'm not sure how YOU define "seriously broken", but this whole experience
was bad enough for us that after a couple of days we pulled the whole mess
off and reinstalled MHS 1.5.
Gerry Green
Stephen Whitehouse
4.1 and MHS Services (which only talks to 4.1 systems in a single
tree) has put everyone's mind at ease with their messaging
direction <G>.
Gerry, seems pretty apparent that your messaging problems will be
solved as soon as everyone else converts to NetWare 4.1, falls
under the same NDS tree architecture, and throws out the need to
talk to anyone who does not use 4.1 <s>.
Hmmm, does this pose a problem with anyone?
Steve W.