Could cloining be coming back?
The Goldbergs
After reading about the iMac, I had some ideas about how cloning could
be coming back. Some intersting observations: The iMac's architecture
is derived from CHRP. CHRP does exist, with one problem: the MacOS
still requires Mac ROMs. So while anyone can make a PPC machine, it
can't run the MacOS.
The thing is, however, that MacOS 8 and higher DOES have CHRP support
(from what I've read on the net). It's a good thing it does, because the
iMac only has OpenFirmware ROM (no Mac toolbox). This means that the
MacOS will officially support the use of the sw ROM image that can be
installed. MacOSX/Rhapsody doesn't even use a ROM image as it doesn't
use Mac ROMs. Also, the iMac doesn't contain the ADB port, which is the
only one that Apple owns. In conclusion...
...Mac cloning may be revived! The main problem with cloning as it used
to be is that cloners had to get ROMs, ADB, and the motherboard from
Apple with the license. All clones had to be inspected by Apple to
ensure that its parts were being used exactly as they should. The whole
process turned out to be very unprofitable for Apple, and on top of it
the clones were simply eating away at Apple's own market share instead
of expanding the Mac market. So the alleged plan is to make Macs
popular again, with new users joining the flock. Then with the rapidly
expanding market, they could start licensing the MacOS/X/Rhapsody, and
ONLY have to license the sw. With more choice, even more people will
buy Macs/Mac compatibles. Microsoft's (and soon, Intel's) legal
troubles will make people look at the alternatives more as well. Power
users will be frustrated by the delays in Merced and look to G4s.
Consumers are always frustrated with how hard it is to use Windoze and
they'll also take another look.
On top of all that, who knows what other surprises Apple has coming down
the pike?
Just my 2 cents.
Rafi Goldberg
William R. Cousert
I thought the PCI standard allowed for only four slots? Is there a new
standard? If so, how many slots can you have?
Peter Bjørn Perlsø wrote in message <357aa...@d2o101.telia.com>...
>1) Mac OS X will be able to boot of a open firm-ware.
>2) Future Macs will not have proprietary ROM's
>3) Apple is negotiating with an undisclosed 3rd party to build a megatower
>with 6 PCI slots for them.
>
>So cloning is not a closed chapter.
>
>
>+-----------------------------------------+
>I A computer without Windows I
>I is like a fish without a bicycle I
>+-----------------------------------------+
>
Paul McGrane
In article <e2Fpubk...@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net>, "William R.
Cousert" <lcgra...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> I thought the PCI standard allowed for only four slots? Is there a new
> standard? If so, how many slots can you have?
>
It's not like this is new, there have been macs out with 6 PCI slots for 3
years already! I do remember that at least one cloner's 6 slot system was
really two sets of 3 underneath. Not sure about how Apple's were set up.
...Paul McGrane
Kurt Glaesemann
In article <e2Fpubk...@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net>, "William R.
Cousert" <lcgra...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> I thought the PCI standard allowed for only four slots? Is there a new
> standard? If so, how many slots can you have?
There are some RS/6000's with several dozen PCI slots.
--
Kurt Glaesemann (real e-mail has no double @)
Physical Chemistry Graduate Student
Iowa State University of Science and Technology
m rassbach
The Goldbergs wrote:
> In conclusion...
>
> ...Mac cloning may be revived!
Interesting analysis but:
1) MacOS is a niche market machine. Any cloner would have to be happy with
a %age of 4% of the overall market.
2) Any cloner would have to be content with the Apple stranglehold on
MacOS. This is a stanglehold dedicated to selling Apple branded hardware.
3) Cloners would have to be comfortable being a 'business partner' with
Apple.
Given how the last batch of Apple partners have been treated (Newton
VARS/OpenDOC/Apple VARS who were axed) how many will follow in
UMAX/Motorola/PowerComputing's footsteps?
Technology is one thing, but the politics are another. Politics are why it
won't happen.
Rick
m rassbach <ma...@milestonerdl.com> wrote:
It will intersting to see what happens when the MacROM-less-open
firmware Macs are shipped. The iMac is supposed to be MacROM-less and
OpenFirmware. CHRP may revive as a platform for Be, Amiga and (gasp) the
Mac.
--
*** To reply via email remove nospam from my return address. ***
Scott Hess
In article <e2Fpubk...@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net>,
"William R. Cousert" <lcgra...@email.msn.com> writes:
I thought the PCI standard allowed for only four slots? Is there a
new standard? If so, how many slots can you have?
As I understnad it, PCI allows for 10 "loads". I think the PCI
controller is a load, and the built-in chipset (EIDE, PCI-ISA bridge,
etc) is generally a load. Each slot takes two loads, thus you
generally get four slots. Other on-board should only require one
load, so you could put SCSI and ethernet on-board with one load
apiece.
Very well designed PC motherboards sometimes can manage another slot.
The cheaper boards can't do this reliably, though.
Also, you can use PCI bridges to add slots. Essentially the bridge
sits between two seperate PCI busses. And, of course, there's no
reason you couldn't have two seperate busses built-in.
Later,
--
scott hess <sc...@doubleu.com> (408) 739-8858 http://www.doubleu.com/
<Favorite unused computer book title: The Compleat Demystified Idiots
Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
Robert Cassidy
In article <PMaeteici-070...@cc962257-a.vron1.nj.home.com>,
PMae...@NOSPAMaol.com (Paul McGrane) wrote:
> It's not like this is new, there have been macs out with 6 PCI slots for 3
> years already! I do remember that at least one cloner's 6 slot system was
> really two sets of 3 underneath. Not sure about how Apple's were set up.
All Apple and clone Macintosh 6 slot systems are dual busses with a bridge
chip.
-Bob Cassidy
Scott Hess
In article <3579649C...@concentric.net>,
The Goldbergs <kal...@concentric.net> writes:
After reading about the iMac, I had some ideas about how cloning
could be coming back. Some intersting observations: The iMac's
architecture is derived from CHRP. CHRP does exist, with one
problem: the MacOS still requires Mac ROMs. So while anyone can
make a PPC machine, it can't run the MacOS.
My speculation, back before Apple killed cloning entirely, was that
they wouldn't come out with a MacOS with full CHRP support - instead,
they'd just put CHRP support in Rhapsody, which is a much simpler
problem to solve. The advantage of this is that they would then have
a set of captive advertisers - the cloners would all have to push
Rhapsody, and _hard_, to make a good go of it.
This idea was so simple, so obvious, that I figured there was NO WAY
it wasn't what was happening. Apple proved me wrong, sigh.
On top of all that, who knows what other surprises Apple has coming
down the pike?
Which will be the main reason they won't find many takers if they ever
open up to cloning again. Fool me twice, I'm the fool...