N4000 or N4000B?
David Herren
I've got a 25MHz cube running two-headed but I'm hoping to pick up a turb=
o cube motherboard. I have heard that there are two versions. ADB and non=
-adb. I don't have any particular preference since I'm completely happy w=
ith my existing keyboard and mouse
(I've moved the mac off my desk anyway so sharing the keyboard is no long=
er an issue...).
I'd like to keep my N4000 monitor--it's very sharp and clear. Are any of =
the turbo cube motherboards compatible with this monitor and my existing =
keyboard/mouse? Nextanswers wasn't very clear on this. My assumption is t=
hat I should specifically be looking
for a non-adb version of the turbo motherboard but I'd like some confirma=
tion from the experts.
-- =
David D. Herren www.cet.middlebury.edu/herren
Assoc. Dir. for Tech. & Instruction her...@flannet.middlebury.edu
Center for Educational Technology voice: (802)443-5746
Middlebury College, Middlebury, VT 05753 fax: (802)443-2053
bes...@cs.wisc.edu
her...@flannet.middlebury.edu (David Herren) wrote:
>I'd like to keep my N4000 monitor--it's very sharp and clear. Are any of =
>the turbo cube motherboards compatible with this monitor and my existing =
>keyboard/mouse?
A non-ADB (Turbo or non-Turbo) NeXTcube or mono NeXTstationcan run either a
N4000 or N4000A. An ADB (Turbo only) requires a N4000B. Technically a
soundbox can be hardware hacked to be either ADB or non I expect you could in
principle hack a monitor to do the same, but its not something I'd recommend.
non-ADB system <-> N4000 or N4000A
ADB system <-> N4000B
- Gareth
---
Gareth Bestor bes...@cs.wisc.edu
Computer Sciences Department http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~bestor
University of Wisconsin-Madison
David Evans
In article <msg141208.thr...@flannet.middlebury.edu>,
David Herren <her...@flannet.middlebury.edu> wrote:
>
>I'd like to keep my N4000 monitor--it's very sharp and clear. Are any of =
>the turbo cube motherboards compatible with this monitor and my existing =
>keyboard/mouse?
Yes, just plug it in. ADB boards like non-ADB monitors/sound boxes/keyboards
just fine.
--
David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfe...@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/
University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer
Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual
David Evans
In article <5vl3ah$ijk$1...@news.doit.wisc.edu>, <bes...@cs.wisc.edu> wrote:
>
>A non-ADB (Turbo or non-Turbo) NeXTcube or mono NeXTstationcan run either a
>N4000 or N4000A. An ADB (Turbo only) requires a N4000B.
Are you sure about this? Not all Turbo machines shipped with ADB and I
thought that they just used the normal non-ADB hardware.
bes...@cs.wisc.edu
In article <EGM18...@novice.uwaterloo.ca>, you wrote:
>In article <5vl3ah$ijk$1...@news.doit.wisc.edu>, <bes...@cs.wisc.edu> wrote:
>>
>>A non-ADB (Turbo or non-Turbo) NeXTcube or mono NeXTstationcan run either a
>>N4000 or N4000A. An ADB (Turbo only) requires a N4000B.
>
> Are you sure about this? Not all Turbo machines shipped with ADB and I
>thought that they just used the normal non-ADB hardware.
Yes, some Turbo machines are ADB and others non-ADB. What I meant was if you have ADB then you
must have a Turbo machine because ADB requires the accelerated 25/33 MHz Turbo motherboard
design, ROM v74 or greater and an ADB monitor/soundbox cable, and ADB keyboard/mouse. You can't
get an ADB system with a non-Turbo motherboard (note: some 25MHz motherboards are Turbo). And
yes, non-ADB Turbo systems use the normal non-ADB hardware.
The physical wiring/pinout is different between ADB and non-ADB systems so you even need the
right monitor cable to get it to work - I know this because I've tried using a non-ADB cable on
my ADB Turbo Color and you can power on/off but the mouse and keyboard don't work. As far as I
can deduce the hardware on all Turbo motherboards is able to handle ADB and non-ADB and the
difference is handled by the ROM, hence why you can upgrade a non-ADB to an ADB w/o replacing
the motherboard. However, the physical wiring and pinouts are different so you need to either
have the right monitor/soundbox or hack them, which apparantly can be done. You need the ADB
mouse and keyboard too to send the correct signals.
Here's the details from the NeXT FAQ:
>5.36 How to convert a Turbo system to use ADB?
>
> If ADB equipment are used with older NeXT systems they won't work
> properly. Here are the ADB requirements:
>
> * A Turbo computer.
> * CPU eprom version 74.
> * New revision computer to soundbox/monitor cable.
>
> The part number is molded at both ends of the connector:
>
> Cable NEW OLD (Non ADB)
> NeXTcube 4534 150
> NeXTstation 4535 1532
> NeXTstation color 4536 2286
>
> * New revision monitor which uses a vertical scan rate of 72hz
> instead of 68hz, except on NeXTdimension systems color monitor
> stays 68hz.
>
> Monitor NEW (72hz) OLD (68hz)
> 17" mono ACX (N4000b) AAA (N4000a \& N4000)
> 17" color ADF (N4006) ABG (N4001)
> 21" color ADB (N4005a) ABH (N4005)
>
> * ADB soundbox for color systems. S/N prefix ADD instead of ABN.
As far as I can tell the 68/72Hz scan rate requirement is bogus, at least for color systems.
I've run a older 68Hz MegaPixel on a ADB Turbo Color and a newer 72MHz MegaPixel on a non-ADB
Turbo Color. NeXT monitors are _supposed_ to be fixed frequency so I have no idea why this works
but nobody has been able to give me an explanation.
- Gareth
PS - I'm not privy to NeXT's hardware design - this is all just what I've been able to deduce.
Perhaps someone who does can inscribe the truth in stone. [calling Mike P...] :-)
spam...@ruin.the.internet.channelu.com
In <EGLuM...@novice.uwaterloo.ca> David Evans wrote:
> In article <msg141208.thr...@flannet.middlebury.edu>,
> David Herren <her...@flannet.middlebury.edu> wrote:
> >
> >I'd like to keep my N4000 monitor--it's very sharp and clear. Are any of =
> >the turbo cube motherboards compatible with this monitor and my existing =
> >keyboard/mouse?
>
> Yes, just plug it in. ADB boards like non-ADB monitors/sound
boxes/keyboards
> just fine.
>
I can vouch for this. I currently have a ADB-Turbo Dimension running two
headed
with a N4000 monitor (non-ADB) and a NON-ADB keyboard and mouse. Cable is
a 150.00. As to the monitor frequencies it appears both the monitors I have
are N4005a's.
And for a strange data point I have used the N4005A on a Indigo 2 Extreme @
60Hz
with no problem.. (I did have to adjust the size but it sync'd fine @
60Hz). 72Hz would
not sync AFAIK so go figure, perhaps I'll try again.
Randy Rencsok
rencsok (at) channelu (dot) com or even better
spammers (a@) channelu (dot) com and if anyone gets bounced messages try
here
rencsok (a@) argus (dot] cem (dot] msu (dot] edu
Izumi Ohzawa
>As far as I can tell the 68/72Hz scan rate requirement is bogus,
>at least for color systems. I've run a older 68Hz MegaPixel on a
>ADB Turbo Color and a newer 72MHz MegaPixel on a non-ADB Turbo
>Color. NeXT monitors are _supposed_ to be fixed frequency so I have
>no idea why this works but nobody has been able to give me an
>explanation.
Nothing magical here.
With the spatial resolution (# of pixels) unchanged, the frame rate
change from 68Hz to 72 represents only a 6 % increase on each of
the V (frame) and H (line) scan rates. That's still within the
definition of "fixed." Most fixed frequency monitors can tolerate
that degree of variability (more if you can get to internal trim
pots).
On the other hand, multi-sync monitors must adapt to scan rate changes
often in excess of 2 - 3 times (that's 100-200 %).
bes...@cs.wisc.edu
In article <5vpla5$2...@news9.noc.netcom.net>, you wrote:
>I can vouch for this. I currently have a ADB-Turbo Dimension running two
>headed
>with a N4000 monitor (non-ADB) and a NON-ADB keyboard and mouse. Cable is
>a 150.00.
How do you know you have an ADB motherboard then? Is your ROM v74? Have you
tried ADB stuff on it too? [honest questions there]
I guess it depends on what ROM you have. Perhaps the v74 ROMs are smart
enough to detect the difference in the incoming signal and can handle both
ADB and non-ADB, but older ROMs are not. Of course, to hang non-ADB stuff off
anything is going to require the non-ADB 150.00 monitor cable since the
wiring to the monitor/soundbox is different. But I'm 99.9% certain you can't
do the opposite; that is hang ADB stuff off and non-ADB motherboard, nor mix
and match your monitor/soundbox/keyboard/mouse.
Thanks for making me aware of this though!
- Gareth
spam...@ruin.the.internet.channelu.com
In <5vqc2u$b3a$1...@news.doit.wisc.edu> bes...@cs.wisc.edu wrote:
> In article <5vpla5$2...@news9.noc.netcom.net>, you wrote:
> >I can vouch for this. I currently have a ADB-Turbo Dimension running two
> >headed
> >with a N4000 monitor (non-ADB) and a NON-ADB keyboard and mouse. Cable
is
> >a 150.00.
>
> How do you know you have an ADB motherboard then? Is your ROM v74? Have you
> tried ADB stuff on it too? [honest questions there]
Yes AND yes.
> I guess it depends on what ROM you have. Perhaps the v74 ROMs are smart
> enough to detect the difference in the incoming signal and can handle both
> ADB and non-ADB, but older ROMs are not. Of course, to hang non-ADB stuff
off
> anything is going to require the non-ADB 150.00 monitor cable since the
> wiring to the monitor/soundbox is different. But I'm 99.9% certain you
can't
> do the opposite; that is hang ADB stuff off and non-ADB motherboard, nor
mix
> and match your monitor/soundbox/keyboard/mouse.
I havn't even tried the ADB monitor cable I could if you really want to know.
As to hanging ADB on a non-ADB system I'm pretty sure it just would not
work since I think you'd need the ADB bootstrap code in the v74. Perhaps
Mike P will comment as I'm not completely sure of this.. I probably should
check the pinouts on the cables just to be sure..
> Thanks for making me aware of this though!
No problem. Something else for the FAQ.
Randy
rencsok (at) channelu (d0t) com (or if this fails - send origional w/
accompying errors to)
rencsok (At) argus (d0t) cem (d0t) msu (d0t) edu
spammers works and is preferred BTW
Mike Paquette
Let's see if I can get this all right.
To do ADB, you'll need
1) A CPU board with the Turbo chipset.
The Turbo chipset includes the ADB transceiver. Most Turbo
systems are 33 MHz 68040 boxes. There are a few hundred
systems with the Turbo chipset that run at 25 MHz.
2) A v74 or later ROM
This is the first production ROM that contains the code that
probes for the presence of the ADB keyboard. (I've run across
a few machines in the field that do ADB with v73 ROMs, but
these were pre-production 'science experiment' ROMs, complete
with bugs.)
3) A new cable.
The ADB bus uses a previously unused pin on the cable between
the Sound Box or monochrome monitor and the CPU board. The
newer cable adds a conductor on the previously unused pin. The
newer cables will also work with non-ADB equipment.
Cable ADB Old Non-ADB
NeXTcube 4534 150
NeXTstation 4535 1532
NeXTstation color 4536 2286
4) ADB sound card
You'll need an ADB sound card in your Sound Box or monochrome
monitor. These can be identified by the ADB jack (4 pins +
locator) used for the keyboard connector, and by serial number
prefix. Sound boxes manufactured with the ADB sound card are
series ADD. Monochrome monitors with the ADB sound card are
series ACX (going by the one sample I found!)
When using ADB peripherals with the NeXTStation Turbo Color, the
monitor vertical refresh rate is set to 72 Hz rather than 68 Hz. NeXT
switched monitor models when the ADB keyboard was introduced, and used
the keyboard type as a cue for what monitor was connected. When used
with a 68 Hz refresh 17 inch display, the only visible effect is a
slight distortion of the top 1/2 inch of the display. (Assuming the
hardware was OK before, of course!)