RESULT: comp.sys.next.hardware reorganization fails
Ian Jackson
comp.sys.next.hardware reorganisation
This is the report of the vote result regarding the proposal to split
comp.sys.next.hardware into three unmoderated groups,
comp.sys.next.hardware.i386, .m68k and .misc.
Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group
---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------
152 60 : Yes No : No : comp.sys.next.hardware.i386
152 59 : Yes No : No : comp.sys.next.hardware.m68k
148 60 : Yes No : No : comp.sys.next.hardware.misc
214 valid ballots were received and counted in the totals above.
Each new group requires at least twice as many yes as no votes and at
least 100 more yes than no votes; accordingly none of the proposed new
groups will be created and comp.sys.next.hardware will remain.
The proposal may not be raised again for at least 6 months.
CHARTERS
========
comp.sys.next.hardware.i386 Computers running NeXTSTEP for Intel Processors
This group is intended for discussion of hardware topics relating to
NeXTstep running on Intel x86 series processors. Appropriate topics
include (but are of course not limited to) the various vendors of NeXTstep
compatible Intel x86 systems, ISA/EISA/VLB/PCI cards and drivers for such
systems and the DriverKit.
comp.sys.next.hardware.m68k Computers running NeXTSTEP for NeXT Computers
This group is intended for discussion of hardware topics relating to
NeXTstep running on Motorola 680x0 series processors. Currently this
includes all hardware questions relating to turbo and non-turbo NeXTcube
and NeXTstations systems as well as NeXTdimension systems.
comp.sys.next.hardware.misc Peripherals and miscellaneous Hardware
(renamed from comp.sys.next.hardware)
NeXTstep related hardware questions which belong in none or all of the
existing processor specific groups belong in comp.sys.next.hardware.misc.
Appropriate topics include the discussion of SCSI devices, modems and
printers as related to NeXTstep, any topic relating to NeXTstep on new
processors for which no processor specific group has yet been created, and
many more.
If this group is created it will replace comp.sys.next.hardware, which will
therefore be removed approximately three months later.
Crossposts between any of these three groups are discouraged. A subject
appropriate for one of the processor specific newsgroups is by definition
inappropriate for the .misc group, and a question which could go to both of
them generally belongs in neither but only in the .misc group.
RATIONALE
=========
As NeXTSTEP has started to support multiple hardware architectures, the
articles in comp.sys.next.hardware are clearly split right now. They are
unrelated, but happen to be in the same newsgroup; things are going to be
even worse when new hardware architectures are supported.
This split will help to make reading hardware articles easier, as related
articles will be grouped together. People only interested in one hardware
architecture don't have to dig through all articles in order to find those
they are interested in.
The following naming rule for hardware groups has been applied, so that
users of NeXTSTEP computers know at once which hardware newsgroup to use:
comp.sys.next.hardware.`/usr/bin/arch` (this is the same as the MACH cpu
type -- see man 3 arch). This is not ideal, but it is predictable.
Fancier names could be chosen, but again, people would have to ask for the
correct name of his newsgroup, and this discussion would start again and
again with every new hardware architecture.
CONTACT INFORMATION
===================
This vote is being handled by Ian Jackson as a neutral third party. Please
direct all voting and procedural questions and reports of problems to him at
i...@white.dogwood.com. NOTE! Please send *votes* to iwj-...@white.dogwood.com
^^^^
Please direct all questions regarding the proposed new group to either one
of the proposers, Stephan Trebels <tre...@theo-phys.gwdg.de> or
Carl Edman <ced...@cedman.remote.Princeton.EDU>.
LIST OF VOTERS
==============
The following ballots were received and counted in the totals above:
comp.sys.next.hardware.misc -----+
comp.sys.next.hardware.m68k ----+|
comp.sys.next.hardware.i386 ---+||
|||
A.L...@research.ptt.nl (Arnaud Leene) YYY
a...@fml.tuwien.ac.at (Andreas Haleger) YYY
al19...@academ01.mty.itesm.mx (Eugenio Sanchez) Y--
altsys!lorin_...@uunet.UU.NET (Lorin Rivers) NNN
am...@data.uchicago.edu (Amish Dave) NNN
ande...@doit.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) YYY
au...@cs.albany.edu (James Ault) YYY
ba...@saturn.dpic.bc.ca (Bob Bajwa) YYY
bbec...@carrock.hw.stratus.com (Bob Beckwith) NNN
b...@bbs.dsnet.com (Robert Mc Daniel) NNN
bc...@hesta2.hesta.com (Bill Chin) NNN
birc...@pilot.njin.net (Shag Aristotelis) YYY
bis...@loretta.la.ca.us (Bisbey) NNN
b...@herbison.com (B.J. Herbison) YYY
bob...@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Bob Cook) YYY
br...@bibliotech.com (Bob Brown) ---
ca...@mv.us.adobe.com (Perry A. Caro) NNN
c...@mpl.UCSD.EDU (Carl Lowenstein) YYY
ced...@Princeton.EDU (Carl Edman) YYY
ch...@chestnut.chem.upenn.edu (Chin Hsiang Wu) YYY
Christia...@nice.usergroup.ethz.ch (Christian Limpach) YYY
chri...@nazgul.st.hmc.edu (Christopher Douty) YYY
c...@cs.tu-berlin.de (Christian Kelling) YYY
clai...@express.ctron.com (Christian Longshore Claiborn) NNN
cla...@tallawe.lahn.de (Claus Schneeberger) YYY
col...@kaiwan.com (Ed Collins) YYY
coo...@gershwin.mills.edu (Jessica Mosher) YYY
cr...@bnr.ca (Christopher Rath) YYY
craw...@nesteggs.com (Michael E. Crawford) YYY
crou...@flidh102.delcoelect.com (Kenneth P. Crouch, Jr.) NNN
csal...@mae.carleton.ca (Chris Saldanha) YYY
ctfi...@lochnext.lerc.nasa.gov (Charles Finlay) YYY
cu...@vaw.ethz.ch (Bernard CUCHE) YY-
D.J.Walk...@micromuse.co.uk (D.J.Walker-Morgan) YYY
d9be...@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell) YYY
d...@az.stratus.com (Dan Danz) YYY
dar...@research.canon.oz.au (Darrin Smart) YYY
dau...@cs.tamu.edu (Walter C. Daugherity) YYY
da...@colossus.pfm-mainz.de (David Andel) YYY
da...@worg.questor.org (David Lau) YYY
dbr...@gonzo.cs.uoguelph.ca (Dave Bruce) YYY
deck...@skynet.bevc.blacksburg.va.us (Rick Deckard) YYY
dev...@snowhite.cis.uoguelph.ca (David Evans) YYY
d...@fnbc.com (Dan Crimmins) YYY
dle...@fnma.COM (David Lewis) NNN
d...@woodstock.abbott.com (Donald L. Ritchey) NNN
dm...@rincewind.mech.virginia.edu (Dave Meyer) YYY
dra...@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Rebecca Drayer) YYY
DUK...@a1.tcc.corning.com (Michael A. Duke) YYY
e...@joker.fdn.org (Erik Dasque) YYY
elit...@proxima.com (Eric A. Litman) YYY
engs...@src.honeywell.com (Eric D. Engstrom) NNN
e...@cs.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott) NNN
er...@whyanext.com (Eric Schwartz) YYY
eric_...@il.us.swissbank.com (Eric Brown) YYY
eric_we...@its.com (Eric Wespestad) YYY
Erik_...@ensuing.com (erik kraft) NNN
ern...@cco.caltech.edu (Ernest N. Prabhakar) YYY
esp...@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry) YYY
Felix...@nice.usergroup.ethz.ch (Felix Rauch) YYY
fl1...@rrz.de (Ralf Weber) YYY
fo...@midway.uchicago.edu (Eric Fortune) NNN
fs...@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (Sean P. Ryan) NNN
g...@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance Alistair Drosehn) YYY
ger...@kurt.in-berlin.de (Gerald Erdmann) YYY
ger...@rna.indiv.nluug.nl (Gerben Wierda) YYY
gf...@psych.ualberta.ca (Gary Finley) YYY
g...@acpub.duke.edu (Gregory G. Woodbury) YYY
g...@atlantic.mps.ohio-state.edu (Gil Rivlis) YYY
gil...@crih.fdn.org (Gildas NOEL) YYY
GOL...@HUHEPL.HARVARD.EDU (Mitchell Golden) YYY
gorn...@mv.us.adobe.com (Graham Orndorff) NNN
gr...@fpl91.berkeley.edu (Greg C. Foliente) YYY
Greg_A...@afs.com (Gregory H. Anderson) NNN
gre...@research.canon.oz.au (Graham Stoney) YY-
gs...@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Greg Shaw) YNY
h...@red-eft.la.ca.us (Harris Boldt Edelman) NNN
HD0022%ALBNYVM...@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU (Chip Dunham) NNN
he...@paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl (Henk Peek) YYY
he...@trilithon.com (Henry McGilton) NNN
hir...@vnus.bc.ca (Hiroshi Takahashi) NNN
ho...@darmstadt.gmd.de (Holger Hoffstaette) YYY
h...@CS.Stanford.EDU (Scott Roy) NNN
hu...@ear.mit.edu (Hugh Secker-Walker) YYY
hu...@uni-paderborn.de (Holger Uhr) YYY
infi...@CMU.EDU (Charles W. Swiger) YYY
ing...@i-pi.com (Kenneth Ingham) YYY
i...@cam-orl.co.uk (Ian Jackson) ---
iz...@pinoko.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa) YYY
j-w...@nwu.edu (Jerry S. Weiss) NNN
Jack_...@math.earlham.edu (Jack A.Rabah) YYY
jaco...@cae.wisc.edu (Erik Jacobsen) NNN
ja...@clipper.ens.fr (jalon) YYY
j...@wam.umd.edu (Jonathan D. Loo) YYY
jer...@mrk.com (Jerald Dawson) NNN
j...@acsu.buffalo.edu (Tomas Henriques) YYY
jhei...@alleg.EDU (Jason Heideloff) YYY
Jim_Bro...@radical.com (Jim Brownfield) NNN
jjfe...@relief.com (John Feiler) YYY
j...@decoy.uoregon.edu (Joe St Sauver) YYY
jo...@wpa.com (John Bartley) YYY
joshua...@swissbank.com (Josh Simon) YYY
j...@avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov (J. Porter Clark) NNN
j...@minivan.vetmed.wsu.edu (Jay P. Weidner) YYY
j...@phcs.com (James E. Quick) YYY
j...@globalvillag.com (John R. MacWilliamson) NNN
j...@euler.hnv.icem.de (Juergen Sell) YYY
jul...@bongo.tele.com (Julian Macassey) NNN
jy...@woodstock.abbott.com (Joseph Yoon) YYY
ka...@pencom.com (Kari Karhi) YYY
Karl_...@ensuing.com (Karl Kraft) NNN
keck...@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Karl Ecklund) YYY
kel...@kiwi.ATMOS.ColoState.Edu (Kelley Wittmeyer) YYY
kess...@crpht.lu (Georges Kesseler) YYY
kynug.org!ne...@ms.uky.edu (Neil Greene) YYY
L1...@ZFN.UNI-BREMEN.DE (Martin Schr"oder) YYY
lag...@netcom.com (Lagarde) NNN
la...@tal.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Harald Lauer) YYY
l...@label.TAU.AC.IL (Larry Blume) YYY
l...@ine.philips.nl (Leo de Wit) YYY
lev...@oclc.org (gene levine) YYY
lin...@lonesome.com (Mark Linimon) YYY
ma...@adec23.pa.dec.com (Mark G Salyzyn) NYY
ma...@cs.odu.edu (Mark Imbriaco) NNN
ma...@xexos.com (Mark Chamberlain) YYY
Mark_...@wma.wma.com (Mark Dadgar) YYY
mar...@trefoil.demon.co.uk (Martin Higham) NNN
ma...@drefla.mese.com (Matt Brandt) YYY
Matthias....@RUS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE (Matthias Boehringer) YYY
matt...@macnet.wsi.physik.tu-muenchen.de (Matthias Rosenberger) YYY
mat...@peruvian.cs.utah.edu (Mark Atwood) YYY
mbr...@ceco.ceco.com (Michael Brier) YYY
m...@sv001.TorreyPinesCA.NCR.COM (Michael Cox) NNN
mike.q...@phant.boise.id.us (Mike Quinlan) YYY
Mike_...@NeXT.COM (Mike Perka) NNN
milo!pcl...@ucdavis.edu (Pete Clark) YYY
mi...@uwlax.edu (Milo Velimirovic) YYY
mit...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Varun Mitroo) NNN
mlap...@cse.utoledo.edu (Mark LaPlante) NNN
m...@RedBrick.COM (Maxime Taksar) NNN
mnbo...@pizza.franken.de (Martin Bokaemper) YYY
moel...@michi.bota.uni-bonn.de (Michael Moellney, Bonn, Germany) YYY
moksha!bliss!moksha!m...@bikini.cis.ufl.edu (Michael Branton) YYY
m...@marsu.tynet.sub.org (Markus Wenzel) YYY
m...@its.com (Michael S. Barthelemy) YYN
msta...@oba.UCSD.EDU (Mark Stankus) YYY
mug...@alumni.caltech.edu (Asim Mughal) NNN
nat...@laplace.csb.yale.edu (Nathan Janette) NNN
ne...@iis.ee.ethz.ch (Matthias Neeracher) NNN
nev...@ucs.orst.edu (Bryon Nevis) NNN
other!bi...@uunet.UU.NET (Bill Tschumy) YYY
pat...@sdd.hp.com (Patrick Chase) YYY
paul_...@looking-glass.com (Paul A. Girone) YYY
ph...@its.com (Phil Zakhour) NNN
phi...@res.enst.fr (Philip Prindeville) YYY
plut...@porter.geo.brown.edu (Available in mail header) NN-
pm...@darth.byu.edu (Paul M. Cardon) YYY
ponc...@epita.fr (PONCHY Cedric) YYY
qu...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Michael Quinn) YYY
ra...@rooter.muc.de (Ralf Bornat) YYN
rat...@ctron.com (Christian A. Ratliff) YYY
ra...@lclark.edu (Raven Winter) NNN
r...@mayo.EDU (Ray Ghanbari) NNN
rcs...@interaccess.com (Robert C. Stiff) YYY
re...@rkt.in-berlin.de (Rene Kulschewski) YYY
reu...@the-tech.mit.edu (Reuven Lerner) YYY
r...@bio1.bst.rochester.edu (Richard Raubertas) NNN
r...@raven.tuwien.ac.at (Robert F. Tobler) YYY
r...@oclc.org (Robin Hermance-Moore) YYY
ri...@bcm.tmc.edu (Richard Miller) NNN
rin...@cs.rochester.edu (Eric K. Ringger) YYY
rolfhh!rolf (Rolf Woehrmann) YYY
rsc...@netcom.com (Charles Dvorak) YYY
rus...@alpha3.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Russell Schulz) YYY
sang...@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) NNN
sceard!pentode!remlap!b...@UCSD.EDU (Bob Palmer) NNN
sch...@wburg.hanse.de (Andre Schmidt) YYY
sen...@mail.auburn.edu (Bill Seng) YYY
sil...@cantina.lanl.gov (Dick Silbar) YYY
sma...@turing.toronto.edu (Marc Moorcroft) NNN
so...@amdew.llnl.gov (Erik Sowa) YYY
sow...@slow.inslab.uky.edu (John Soward) YYY
sro...@tad.eds.com (Steve Rogers) NNN
stai...@bga.com (Dwight Brown) NNN
sta...@stat.ufl.edu (charles d. kincaid) YYY
st...@cosy.sbg.ac.at (Peter Steiner) YYY
tcol...@cisco.com (Tracy Collins) YYY
tm...@vnet.IBM.COM (Tony Maas) YYY
t...@cfc.com (Todd M. Swan) NYY
t...@basil.icce.rug.nl (Tom R.Hageman) YYY
tom_...@vnet.IBM.COM (Tom Gall) YYY
tp...@oce.orst.edu (Tim F. Pugh) NNN
tre...@desdemona.theo-phys.gwdg.de (Stephan Trebels) YYY
tres...@GVSU.EDU (Jeff Trestrail) YYY
tse...@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Thomas Engel) YYY
tsi...@netcom.com (Terry Sikes) YYY
u...@zoodle.RoBIN.de (Ulrich Grepel) YYY
un...@mecasoft.ch (Stefano Unternaehrer) YYY
utata!grisu (Gernot A. Pohl) YYY
vamp...@litnext1.epfl.ch (vamparys) YYY
vdem...@bou.shl.com (Vince DeMarco) NNN
ves...@heartlab.rri.uwo.ca (Ivan Vesely) YYY
wald...@ife.ee.ethz.ch (Marcel Waldvogel) YYY
way...@bnr.ca (Wayne MacLaurin) YYY
wil...@CSlab.tuwien.ac.at (Alexander Wilkie) YYN
Willia...@its.com (William Swats) YYY
wj...@libra.arch.umich.edu (Wassim Jabi) NNN
wmo...@erasure-sl.cc.emory.edu (William Morse) YYY
wo...@dannug.dk (Michael Hallin) YYY
w...@BioStr.Washington.EDU (Bill Barker) YYY
ya...@alaska.et.byu.edu (Don Yacktman) YYY
Yada...@Gallif.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee) YYY
yo...@cis.uni-muenchen.de (Marc Guenther) YYY
zmon...@MIT.EDU (Eric Hermanson) NNN
The following people sent invalid ballots, which were rejected. They
were sent a NAK containing a request to submit a valid ballot, but did
not do so:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
birc...@pilot.njin.net
! No name; Illegal char in name.
dema...@rerf.or.jp
! Invalid vote (not yes/no/abstain) x3; XXXXX for name.
j...@nas.nasa.gov
! No name; Illegal char in name.
ra...@reswi.en.open.de
! No name; Illegal char in name.
re...@midway.uchicago.edu (Sendhil Revuluri)
! Empty line before stop/end.
--
Ian Jackson acting on behalf of the Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
vote taker for the comp.sys.next.hardware reorganisation
Marc Guenther
i...@white.dogwood.com (Ian Jackson) writes:
> RESULT
> comp.sys.next.hardware reorganisation
>
> Each new group requires at least twice as many yes as no votes and at
> least 100 more yes than no votes; accordingly none of the proposed new
> groups will be created and comp.sys.next.hardware will remain.
> The proposal may not be raised again for at least 6 months.
Great !! really great !!
So I still have to wade through all the intel postings, that i dont
have the slightest interest in, just to find the few, that are still
related with black hardware.
Oh come on !! This is NONSENSE !!! Can any of the people the voted NO,
please tell me a SINGLE reason why they did it ?? Or can they give
me a program, that automatically removes all intel related postings
and only leaves black ones ?
Since the existence of Nextstep FIP, and all these postings "I have a
XXX motherboard, and a YYY (controller|soundcard|whatever) and Im
using interrupt 4711h and the ROM begins at $AFFE" I wanted the splitup
of the newsgroup. As I read about the vote taking, i thought, great, at
last they do it, no one with a sane mind would vote against it. Nut
it seemed, Im wrong.
This really makes me ANGRY !!!
No thanx,
--
Marc Guenther
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Centrum fuer Informations | Wagmuellerstr. 23 | Phone: +49 89 211 0670
und Sprachverarbeitung | 80538 M"unchen | Fax: +49 89 211 0674
University of Munich | Germany | yo...@cis.uni-muenchen.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edman
In article <comp.sys.next.har...@uunet.uu.net>
i...@white.dogwood.com (Ian Jackson) writes:
> RESULT
> comp.sys.next.hardware reorganisation
>
> Each new group requires at least twice as many yes as no votes and at
> least 100 more yes than no votes; accordingly none of the proposed new
> groups will be created and comp.sys.next.hardware will remain.
> The proposal may not be raised again for at least 6 months.
Great !! really great !!
So I still have to wade through all the intel postings, that i dont
have the slightest interest in, just to find the few, that are still
related with black hardware.
Oh come on !! This is NONSENSE !!! Can any of the people the voted NO,
please tell me a SINGLE reason why they did it ?? Or can they give
me a program, that automatically removes all intel related postings
and only leaves black ones ?
I completely agree with you -- as you can imagine us proposers were
also rather disappointed with some of the NO voters. But on to the
positive side: We were within 70 votes of getting just as many YES
votes as soc.sexuality.zoophilia.
Carl Edman
Jerry Weiss
Marc Guenther <yo...@cis.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:
>In article <comp.sys.next.har...@uunet.uu.net>
>i...@white.dogwood.com (Ian Jackson) writes:
>> RESULT
>> comp.sys.next.hardware reorganisation
>>
>
>Great !! really great !!
>
>So I still have to wade through all the intel postings, that i dont
>have the slightest interest in, just to find the few, that are still
>related with black hardware.
>Oh come on !! This is NONSENSE !!! Can any of the people the voted NO,
>please tell me a SINGLE reason why they did it ?? Or can they give
>me a program, that automatically removes all intel related postings
>and only leaves black ones ?
>
>Since the existence of Nextstep FIP, and all these postings "I have a
>XXX motherboard, and a YYY (controller|soundcard|whatever) and Im
>using interrupt 4711h and the ROM begins at $AFFE" I wanted the splitup
>of the newsgroup. As I read about the vote taking, i thought, great, at
>last they do it, no one with a sane mind would vote against it. Nut
>it seemed, Im wrong.
>
>This really makes me ANGRY !!!
As one of those with an "insane" mind and speaking purely for myself,
I'm sorry you are so angry. Perhaps your news reader has a kill file
in which you can include key phrases like "intel" or "FIP" to shield you
from this domain.
My own humble view of the matters is that while I am not opposed to the
division in principle I feel it is somewhat premature. While some matters
are clear cut Intel or Black issues, some things are not. Those that are
not of interest to you can easily be filtered out with the appropriate
reader. When the other hardware ports become more of a reality perhaps
then there will be enough experience and clarity of purpose on the net to make
the division of the hardware domain more useful.
--
Jerry S. Weiss
j-w...@nwu.edu
Dept. Medicine, Northwestern Univ. Medical School, Chicago, Illinois
%SYSTEM-S-PHALOKTARG, Phasers Locked on Target, Ready to Fire
Karl Kraft
writes:
> >
> > least 100 more yes than no votes; accordingly none of the proposed new
> > groups will be created and comp.sys.next.hardware will remain.
> > The proposal may not be raised again for at least 6 months.
>
> Great !! really great !!
>
> Oh come on !! This is NONSENSE !!! Can any of the people the voted NO,
> please tell me a SINGLE reason why they did it ?? Or can they give
> me a program, that automatically removes all intel related postings
> and only leaves black ones ?
>
The vote did not fail because a majority voted no, it failed because the amount of yes vs no
votes was not significant, or to put it another way...... not enough people voted yes.
That's democracy in action.
As for why the no votes, look at the discussion during the RFD and CFV.
--
_______________
Karl Kraft
I don't speak for trapac, and they don't speak for me.
Karl_...@trapac.com
--
_______________
Karl Kraft
I don't speak for trapac, and they don't speak for me.
Karl_...@trapac.com