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You Know What's Bullshit!? - iTunes

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victor davis

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Jan 19, 2015, 9:19:32 PM1/19/15
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You Know What's Bullshit!? - iTunes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ZqfvgUOWU

Ant

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Jan 20, 2015, 2:16:43 AM1/20/15
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On 1/19/2015 6:19 PM, victor davis wrote:
> You Know What's Bullshit!? - iTunes
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ZqfvgUOWU

Weird, I never saw this episode before.
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victor davis

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Jan 20, 2015, 1:37:11 PM1/20/15
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On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 23:16:41 -0800, Ant wrote:

>> You Know What's Bullshit!? - iTunes
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ZqfvgUOWU
>
> Weird, I never saw this episode before.

It's a pretty good episode which whose logic you can't argue
much with, as everything he says is right on the bullseye.

Even though he's only explaining why it's best to avoid updating
iTunes, his advice applies just as well to most Apple software.

victor davis

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Jan 20, 2015, 1:43:19 PM1/20/15
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On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 18:37:05 +0000, victor davis wrote:

> It's a pretty good episode which whose logic you can't argue
> much with, as everything he says is right on the bullseye.

Direct quote: "iTunes is turning into a monstor"

For example, deauthorizing bullshit, update lost functionality
bullshit, update haunting message bullshit, & update causing
genius/ping/etc bootup bullshit.

Direct quote: "Stop updating iTunes!"




John McWilliams

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Jan 20, 2015, 2:39:31 PM1/20/15
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How nice of you to agree with yourself.

What a crock.


Your Name

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Jan 20, 2015, 2:50:42 PM1/20/15
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In article <m9m78h$1cp$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
And yet it's still about 50quintabazillion times better than any of the
utter garbage Microsloth produces from its toilet cleaner quality
"prgramming" divions.

nospam

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Jan 20, 2015, 3:54:10 PM1/20/15
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In article <m9m78h$1cp$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
<v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote:

> >> You Know What's Bullshit!? - iTunes
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ZqfvgUOWU
> >
> > Weird, I never saw this episode before.
>
> It's a pretty good episode which whose logic you can't argue
> much with, as everything he says is right on the bullseye.

actually none of it is even close.

itunes doesn't ask about updates if autoupdate is disabled, ping has
been history for a while and the reason why cd burning was removed from
the main panel is because fewer people burn discs (especially since
there aren't built-in optical drives anymore), exactly as he says.

he just wants to rant and make an idiot out of himself.

nospam

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Jan 20, 2015, 3:54:11 PM1/20/15
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In article <m9m7k3$1cp$2...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
<v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote:

>
> > It's a pretty good episode which whose logic you can't argue
> > much with, as everything he says is right on the bullseye.
>
> Direct quote: "iTunes is turning into a monstor"

did he misspell it?

> For example, deauthorizing bullshit,

what bullshit is that? deauthorizing is easy, including systems that
the user no longer has. there really isn't a better way to do it than
how it's done now. do you have a better suggestion on how to
deauthorize a system the user no longer owns without making it trivial
to pirate?

> update lost functionality bullshit,

the cd burning wasn't lost.

as he said, it's not used as much, so its no longer in the main window.

> update haunting message bullshit,

that's easily disabled and he didn't do it.

> & update causing
> genius/ping/etc bootup bullshit.

there isn't any bootup bullshit and ping has been gone for a *while*.

> Direct quote: "Stop updating iTunes!"

what he should have said is "i should learn how to use this app and
configure it to do what i want."

he could have disabled the functionality he did not want in less time
than it took to make that idiotic video.

Alan Browne

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Jan 20, 2015, 7:54:09 PM1/20/15
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On 2015.01.19 21:19 , victor davis wrote:
> You Know What's Bullshit!? - iTunes
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ZqfvgUOWU

Other than itunes becoming grotesque and complex morass, which is true,
most of his gripes are BS.

Obsessing over the burn CD button being gone. Really?

Not really understanding the Authorize/De-authorize mechanism? Really?

--
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determined by what remains after your
bad habits are subtracted from your good ones."
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News

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Jan 20, 2015, 9:06:22 PM1/20/15
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On 1/20/2015 7:54 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2015.01.19 21:19 , victor davis wrote:
>> You Know What's Bullshit!? - iTunes
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ZqfvgUOWU
>
> Other than itunes becoming grotesque and complex morass, which is true,
> most of his gripes are BS.
>
> Obsessing over the burn CD button being gone. Really?
>
> Not really understanding the Authorize/De-authorize mechanism? Really?
>


"It just works"

Differently every friggin time.

victor davis

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Jan 21, 2015, 12:54:14 AM1/21/15
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On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 15:54:10 -0500, nospam wrote:

> what bullshit is that? deauthorizing is easy, including systems that
> the user no longer has. there really isn't a better way to do it than
> how it's done now. do you have a better suggestion on how to
> deauthorize a system the user no longer owns without making it trivial
> to pirate?

Did you listen to the video?
It's from the cinema massacre guy, who is well respected.
His points are all valid.
Why should you even have to deauthorize?
Only an Apple brainwhashed peson would think that's sane.

And, from a company founded by an ackknowledged pirate himself
(Steve Jobs originally sold telephone tone generators to scam AT&T).

victor davis

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Jan 21, 2015, 12:56:44 AM1/21/15
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 08:50:45 +1300, Your Name wrote:

> And yet it's still about 50quintabazillion times better than any of the
> utter garbage Microsloth produces from its toilet cleaner quality
> "prgramming" divions.

You've got to be off your rocker if you think iTunes
has a sane use model.

It's a monstor of crap.
You don't even know any better.

Try Groove some day.
You'll never use iTunes shit again.

victor davis

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Jan 21, 2015, 12:58:22 AM1/21/15
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On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 19:54:08 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:

> Not really understanding the Authorize/De-authorize mechanism? Really?

Why should you even have to deauthorize?
Only an Apple brainwashed person would even THINK that way.
At leaset you agree that itunes is grotisque.

Your Name

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Jan 21, 2015, 1:07:32 AM1/21/15
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In article <m9neu2$u1l$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
It has virtually nothing to do with Apple or Steve Jobs. The DRM system
was at the insistence of the industries creating the content.

It's not just them either. Adobe used to have a similar system when
installing / using their applications. To stop people using one
licensed copy on multiple computers, you had one authorised install and
if you wanted to use the software on another computer, then you had to
first deauthorise the first one ... which, as we discovered, was a pain
in the backside when the first computer had been stolen.

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 21, 2015, 1:07:33 AM1/21/15
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In article <m9neu2$u1l$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
<v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote:

> Why should you even have to deauthorize?

Because if you sell or give away the computer, you don't want that
computer attached to your iTunes account any more.

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 21, 2015, 1:09:54 AM1/21/15
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In article <m9nf5s$u1l$3...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
<v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote:

> > Not really understanding the Authorize/De-authorize mechanism? Really?
>
> Why should you even have to deauthorize?
> Only an Apple brainwashed person would even THINK that way.

Please tell us, in your own words, why you should never have to
de-authorize?

> At leaset you agree that itunes is grotisque.

Learn how to spell and/or proofread your work.

Your Name

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Jan 21, 2015, 1:10:32 AM1/21/15
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In article <m9nf2p$u1l$2...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
And Microsloth's garbage is still 50quintabazillion times worse than
anything Apple has ever made. Any issues with iYunes on a Windoze PC
are almost all down to Microsloth's complete inability to properly
program a computer and the disasterous mess of non-standards and weird
hardware.

nospam

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Jan 21, 2015, 1:11:55 AM1/21/15
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In article <m9neu2$u1l$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
<v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote:

> > what bullshit is that? deauthorizing is easy, including systems that
> > the user no longer has. there really isn't a better way to do it than
> > how it's done now. do you have a better suggestion on how to
> > deauthorize a system the user no longer owns without making it trivial
> > to pirate?
>
> Did you listen to the video?

unfortunately not only did i listen to it, but i had the misfortune of
watching it.

> It's from the cinema massacre guy, who is well respected.

someone who lies is not respected.

> His points are all valid.

none of them are.

the valid point is that he's an idiot who doesn't know how to use
itunes.

auto-update is easily disabled, deauthorization is easy, bitching bout
the cd burn icon going away is absurd, ping has been dead for quite a
while and the genius stuff can be turned off.

itunes isn't perfect (nothing is), but he didn't talk about what's
really wrong with it.

> Why should you even have to deauthorize?

because the music and movie industry imposes drm and a limit to how
many systems can be concurrently authorized. go bitch at them for
forcing it upon apple and users.

apple historically has opposed drm and copy protection, but they didn't
have a choice to launch the music store and video store.

the music industry has since realized that online sales was actually a
good thing so they no longer require drm, but the movie industry still
does.

the way itunes implements drm affects very few people because most
people know to deauthorize a system when replacing it but for those who
forget, there's a way to do it without having the actual system.

> Only an Apple brainwhashed peson would think that's sane.

only an apple hater would say that.

> And, from a company founded by an ackknowledged pirate himself
> (Steve Jobs originally sold telephone tone generators to scam AT&T).

what does that have to do with anything?

john james

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Jan 21, 2015, 1:23:37 AM1/21/15
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"Your Name" <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote in message
news:210120151910401203%Your...@YourISP.com...
Bullshit. The user interface is completely fucked and completely counter
intuitive.

> and the disasterous mess of non-standards and weird hardware.

Nothing weird about USB hardware.

Message has been deleted

Ant

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Jan 21, 2015, 3:01:59 AM1/21/15
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>>> You Know What's Bullshit!? - iTunes
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ZqfvgUOWU
>>
>> Weird, I never saw this episode before.
>
> It's a pretty good episode which whose logic you can't argue
> much with, as everything he says is right on the bullseye.
>
> Even though he's only explaining why it's best to avoid updating
> iTunes, his advice applies just as well to most Apple software.

I do agree with him. :(
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Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

victor davis

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Jan 21, 2015, 6:59:20 AM1/21/15
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 19:10:40 +1300, Your Name wrote:

> And Microsloth's garbage is still 50quintabazillion times worse

What does Microsoft even have to do with this conversation?

victor davis

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Jan 21, 2015, 7:05:56 AM1/21/15
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On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 23:07:32 -0700, Michelle Steiner wrote:

> Because if you sell or give away the computer, you don't want that
> computer attached to your iTunes account any more.

If you sell or give away your computer, you've already formatted
your hard drives.

victor davis

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Jan 21, 2015, 7:09:36 AM1/21/15
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On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 23:09:53 -0700, Michelle Steiner wrote:

> Please tell us, in your own words, why you should never have to
> de-authorize?

Simple.
Don't install iTunes and you won't ever have to put up with
that bullshit.

I use Sharepod for ipods, and it does everything I need it to
do plus way more that itunes can't do except initialize the ipod.

I use Groove for ipads and it does, for me, all that I want,
so I don't ever have to use itunes.

On my desktop, I don't have itunes on it and with sharepod
and the basic drivers, I can do everything I need.

All without that grotesq bullshit that is itunes!

nospam

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Jan 21, 2015, 8:47:07 AM1/21/15
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In article <m9o4mv$jb2$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
<v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote:

> > Because if you sell or give away the computer, you don't want that
> > computer attached to your iTunes account any more.
>
> If you sell or give away your computer, you've already formatted
> your hard drives.

so what?

you obviously don't understand itunes any more than the idiot who made
the video.

nospam

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Jan 21, 2015, 8:47:08 AM1/21/15
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In article <m9o4ts$jb2$2...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
<v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote:

> > Please tell us, in your own words, why you should never have to
> > de-authorize?
>
> Simple.
> Don't install iTunes and you won't ever have to put up with
> that bullshit.

if you don't buy music from the itunes store then it won't be an issue.
you probably pirate all your music.

> I use Sharepod for ipods, and it does everything I need it to
> do

then your needs are very simple and itunes is well over your head. you
obviously don't even know what itunes can do.

> plus way more that itunes can't do except initialize the ipod.

it can't do a whole lot more than that.

Jolly Roger

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Jan 21, 2015, 10:59:19 AM1/21/15
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For music playing only? Groove doesn't seem to support synchronizing
content and settings from my iOS devices to my computers, nor backing up
my iOS devices, nor any of the other things iTunes does. That's a no-go
for me. iTunes certainly isn't simple or top-notch; but it does get many
things done better than any other solution out there. Personally, I'd
like to see Apple break iTunes up into multiple apps/services so that
individually they would be more manageable and perhaps less dependant on
each other (i.e. less buggy). Barring that, I use it because it does
things I need done that cannot be done elsewhere.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Jolly Roger

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Jan 21, 2015, 11:02:06 AM1/21/15
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On 2015-01-21, john james <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
> "Your Name" <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote in message
> news:210120151910401203%Your...@YourISP.com...
>>
>> And Microsloth's garbage is still 50quintabazillion times worse than
>> anything Apple has ever made. Any issues with iYunes on a Windoze PC
>> are almost all down to Microsloth's complete inability to properly
>> program a computer
>
> Bullshit. The user interface is completely fucked and completely counter
> intuitive.

I don't find it counter-intuitive at all. I open iTunes and click the
Music icon if I want to purchase music, organize my own music, listen to
iTunes Radio, or manage my playlists. If I want to do something with
applications, I instead click the Apps icon, where I can purchase apps,
manage apps I already have, and so on. If I want to manage my iOS
devices, I click the device icon. It's all pretty well laid out for me.

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 21, 2015, 12:49:33 PM1/21/15
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In article <m9o4mv$jb2$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
Immaterial.

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 21, 2015, 12:51:26 PM1/21/15
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In article <m9o4ts$jb2$2...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
<v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 23:09:53 -0700, Michelle Steiner wrote:
>
> > Please tell us, in your own words, why you should never have to
> > de-authorize?
>
> Simple.
> Don't install iTunes and you won't ever have to put up with
> that bullshit.

Answer the question.

> All without that grotesq bullshit that is itunes!

Your bigotry is showing.

john james

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Jan 21, 2015, 4:23:29 PM1/21/15
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"Jolly Roger" <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:cia0rt...@mid.individual.net...
> On 2015-01-21, john james <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> "Your Name" <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>> news:210120151910401203%Your...@YourISP.com...
>>>
>>> And Microsloth's garbage is still 50quintabazillion times worse than
>>> anything Apple has ever made. Any issues with iYunes on a Windoze PC
>>> are almost all down to Microsloth's complete inability to properly
>>> program a computer
>>
>> Bullshit. The user interface is completely fucked and completely counter
>> intuitive.
>
> I don't find it counter-intuitive at all. I open iTunes and click the
> Music icon if I want to purchase music, organize my own music,
> listen to iTunes Radio, or manage my playlists.

Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.

Or a movie etc that isn't supported by the iDevice.

> If I want to do something with applications,
> I instead click the Apps icon, where I can purchase
> apps, manage apps I already have, and so on.

I do all that on the iDevice itself.

> If I want to manage my iOS devices, I click the device icon.

> It's all pretty well laid out for me.

Not when you just want to be able to just play a video
file which the iDevice doesn’t support the format of.

nospam

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Jan 21, 2015, 4:25:59 PM1/21/15
to
In article <ciajme...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> > I don't find it counter-intuitive at all. I open iTunes and click the
> > Music icon if I want to purchase music, organize my own music,
> > listen to iTunes Radio, or manage my playlists.
>
> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
> than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
> iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.

that's piracy.

the other person can get their own copy (through legitimate channels)
and add it themselves.

> Or a movie etc that isn't supported by the iDevice.

that's easy.

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 21, 2015, 6:18:51 PM1/21/15
to
In article <ciajme...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
> than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
> iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.

No problem.

> Or a movie etc that isn't supported by the iDevice.

That has nothing to do with iTunes.

> > It's all pretty well laid out for me.
>
> Not when you just want to be able to just play a video
> file which the iDevice doesn¹t support the format of.

That has nothing to do with iTunes.

john james

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Jan 21, 2015, 9:31:07 PM1/21/15
to


"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:210120151625587971%nos...@nospam.invalid...
> In article <ciajme...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> > I don't find it counter-intuitive at all. I open iTunes and click the
>> > Music icon if I want to purchase music, organize my own music,
>> > listen to iTunes Radio, or manage my playlists.
>>
>> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
>> than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
>> iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.

> that's piracy.

Not when you paid for it when you bought the CD etc.

> the other person can get their own copy (through
> legitimate channels) and add it themselves.

No reason why they should have to if
I choose to give what I paid for to them.

>> Or a movie etc that isn't supported by the iDevice.

> that's easy.

The UI makes it harder to do than it should be.

john james

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Jan 21, 2015, 9:43:15 PM1/21/15
to


"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:210120151618508779%mich...@michelle.org...
> In article <ciajme...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
>> than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
>> iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.
>
> No problem.

Didn't say it was a problem, I said iTunes is very
counter intuitive when you need to do that.

>> Or a movie etc that isn't supported by the iDevice.
>
> That has nothing to do with iTunes.

It has everything to do with how iTunes
does that very counter intuitively.

>> > It's all pretty well laid out for me.
>>
>> Not when you just want to be able to just play a video
>> file which the iDevice doesn¹t support the format of.
>
> That has nothing to do with iTunes.

It has everything to do with how iTunes
does that very counter intuitively.


BobbyK

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Jan 21, 2015, 9:56:02 PM1/21/15
to
On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 13:43:10 +1100, "john james" <jj9...@nospam.com>
wrote:
counter intuitively counter intuitively
counter intuitively counter intuitively
counter intuitively counter intuitively
counter intuitively counter intuitively
counter intuitively counter intuitively
counter intuitively counter intuitively
counter intuitively counter intuitively

Just don't use iTunes and quit your bitching.

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 21, 2015, 10:08:29 PM1/21/15
to
In article <cib5n9...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> >> > I don't find it counter-intuitive at all. I open iTunes and click the
> >> > Music icon if I want to purchase music, organize my own music,
> >> > listen to iTunes Radio, or manage my playlists.
> >>
> >> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
> >> than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
> >> iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.
>
> > that's piracy.
>
> Not when you paid for it when you bought the CD etc.

Unless you get rid of it on your own devices, it is piracy.

> > the other person can get their own copy (through
> > legitimate channels) and add it themselves.
>
> No reason why they should have to if
> I choose to give what I paid for to them.

If you truly give it to them, and not just make a copy for them, that
is OK, but if you make a copy for them while keeping the original (or a
copy) for yourself, it's piracy. Just as if you burned it on a CD for
them or (in the days of yore) made a tape recording of it for them.

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 21, 2015, 10:11:52 PM1/21/15
to
In article <cib6e1...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> >> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
> >> than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
> >> iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.
> >
> > No problem.
>
> Didn't say it was a problem, I said iTunes is very
> counter intuitive when you need to do that.

If it is counter intuitive, it is a problem. But it is not
counterintuitive.

> >> Or a movie etc that isn't supported by the iDevice.
> >
> > That has nothing to do with iTunes.
>
> It has everything to do with how iTunes
> does that very counter intuitively.

Why in the world would you put a movie onto an iDevice if that movie
isn't supported by the iDevice?

> >> > It's all pretty well laid out for me.
> >>
> >> Not when you just want to be able to just play a video
> >> file which the iDevice doesn¹t support the format of.
> >
> > That has nothing to do with iTunes.
>
> It has everything to do with how iTunes
> does that very counter intuitively.

Why in the world would you put a video onto an iDevice if that video
isn't supported by the iDevice?

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 21, 2015, 10:13:02 PM1/21/15
to
In article <gep0cah88pavul65q...@4ax.com>, BobbyK
The problem is that he thinks that "intuitively" means "the way I want
to do it", or "the way I'm used to doing it with other software".

nospam

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Jan 21, 2015, 11:14:30 PM1/21/15
to
In article <cib5n9...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> >> > I don't find it counter-intuitive at all. I open iTunes and click the
> >> > Music icon if I want to purchase music, organize my own music,
> >> > listen to iTunes Radio, or manage my playlists.
> >>
> >> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
> >> than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
> >> iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.
>
> > that's piracy.
>
> Not when you paid for it when you bought the CD etc.

only if you're giving the cd to the other person and destroying any
digital copies you may have.

if not, it's piracy.

> > the other person can get their own copy (through
> > legitimate channels) and add it themselves.
>
> No reason why they should have to if
> I choose to give what I paid for to them.

you can give them the cd. what you can't do is give it to them and keep
a copy for yourself, which is almost certainly what you're doing.

> >> Or a movie etc that isn't supported by the iDevice.
>
> > that's easy.
>
> The UI makes it harder to do than it should be.

no it doesn't.

john james

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Jan 21, 2015, 11:15:54 PM1/21/15
to


"BobbyK" <bkn...@Conramp.net> wrote in message
news:gep0cah88pavul65q...@4ax.com...
There is no viable alternative with movies particularly
which are too slow to move any other way.



john james

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Jan 21, 2015, 11:18:38 PM1/21/15
to


"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:210120152008285485%mich...@michelle.org...
> In article <cib5n9...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> >> > I don't find it counter-intuitive at all. I open iTunes and click
>> >> > the
>> >> > Music icon if I want to purchase music, organize my own music,
>> >> > listen to iTunes Radio, or manage my playlists.
>> >>
>> >> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
>> >> than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
>> >> iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.
>>
>> > that's piracy.
>>
>> Not when you paid for it when you bought the CD etc.

> Unless you get rid of it on your own devices, it is piracy.

And when you do that, it isn't, just like when you give
someone a book you have already read or a CD or DVD
that you no longer use. Or if you sell it to them either.

>> > the other person can get their own copy (through
>> > legitimate channels) and add it themselves.
>>
>> No reason why they should have to if
>> I choose to give what I paid for to them.
>
> If you truly give it to them, and not just make a copy for them, that
> is OK, but if you make a copy for them while keeping the original (or a
> copy) for yourself, it's piracy.

Duh. You were the only one who brought up piracy.

> Just as if you burned it on a CD for
> them or (in the days of yore) made a tape recording of it for them.

Duh.

john james

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Jan 21, 2015, 11:22:05 PM1/21/15
to


"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:210120152011517650%mich...@michelle.org...
> In article <cib6e1...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> >> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
>> >> than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
>> >> iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.
>> >
>> > No problem.
>>
>> Didn't say it was a problem, I said iTunes is very
>> counter intuitive when you need to do that.
>
> If it is counter intuitive, it is a problem.

It just means you have to look up how to do that
instead of just doing that. Not a problem at all.

> But it is not counterintuitive.

It is when you do it differently to how you do it with
something that was bought from the iTunes store.

>> >> Or a movie etc that isn't supported by the iDevice.
>> >
>> > That has nothing to do with iTunes.
>>
>> It has everything to do with how iTunes
>> does that very counter intuitively.
>
> Why in the world would you put a movie onto an iDevice if that movie
> isn't supported by the iDevice?

Because that is how you got it and you want to
watch it on your iDevice because that is all you
have to watch it on.

>> >> > It's all pretty well laid out for me.
>> >>
>> >> Not when you just want to be able to just play a video
>> >> file which the iDevice doesn¹t support the format of.
>> >
>> > That has nothing to do with iTunes.
>>
>> It has everything to do with how iTunes
>> does that very counter intuitively.
>
> Why in the world would you put a video onto an iDevice if that video
> isn't supported by the iDevice?

Because that is how you got it and you want to
watch it on your iDevice because that is all you
have to watch it on.


john james

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Jan 21, 2015, 11:23:32 PM1/21/15
to


"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:210120152013011856%mich...@michelle.org...
I know that intuitively means how iTunes does
other stuff like a movie that it can play natively.

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 21, 2015, 11:51:40 PM1/21/15
to
In article <cibc79...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> > Why in the world would you put a movie onto an iDevice if that
> > movie isn't supported by the iDevice?
>
> Because that is how you got it and you want to watch it on your
> iDevice because that is all you have to watch it on.

If you got it on the iDevice, you don't need iTunes to move it to the
iDevice, and if the iDevice doesn't support it, you can't watch it on
the iDevice. You are not making any sense.

Michelle Steiner

unread,
Jan 21, 2015, 11:54:42 PM1/21/15
to
In article <cibca2...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> I know that intuitively means how iTunes does
> other stuff like a movie that it can play natively.

Do you know what you're talking about? You are not making any sense.

john james

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 12:13:38 AM1/22/15
to


"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:210120152151396951%mich...@michelle.org...
> In article <cibc79...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> > Why in the world would you put a movie onto an iDevice if that
>> > movie isn't supported by the iDevice?
>>
>> Because that is how you got it and you want to watch it on your
>> iDevice because that is all you have to watch it on.

> If you got it on the iDevice,

I didn't.

> you don't need iTunes to move it to the iDevice,

Duh.

> and if the iDevice doesn't support
> it, you can't watch it on the iDevice.

You can actually, just use another media player like VLC.

> You are not making any sense.

Wrong.

john james

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Jan 22, 2015, 12:16:17 AM1/22/15
to


"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:210120152154417852%mich...@michelle.org...
> In article <cibca2...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> I know that intuitively means how iTunes does
>> other stuff like a movie that it can play natively.
>
> Do you know what you're talking about?

Yes.

> You are not making any sense.

If you want to move a movie to your iDevice that
iOS does not support the format of, you do that
very differently to how you move a movie whose
format is supported by iOS. That is very counter
intuitive indeed.

john james

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Jan 22, 2015, 12:24:05 AM1/22/15
to


"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:210120152314298596%nos...@nospam.invalid...
> In article <cib5n9...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> >> > I don't find it counter-intuitive at all. I open iTunes and click
>> >> > the
>> >> > Music icon if I want to purchase music, organize my own music,
>> >> > listen to iTunes Radio, or manage my playlists.
>> >>
>> >> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
>> >> than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
>> >> iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.
>>
>> > that's piracy.
>>
>> Not when you paid for it when you bought the CD etc.
>
> only if you're giving the cd to the other person

You don't have to do that, just never use it again.

> and destroying any digital copies you may have.

You don't have to do that either, just never use them again.

> if not, it's piracy.

Wrong if the other copies are just in your
backups and you never use them again.

>> > the other person can get their own copy (through
>> > legitimate channels) and add it themselves.
>>
>> No reason why they should have to if
>> I choose to give what I paid for to them.
>
> you can give them the cd.

You don't have to do that, you can just put what
you want to give them on their iDevice and that
is a much better approach if they don't know how
to get it from the CD to their iDevice or they don't
even have a CD player that can be used to get it
onto their iDevice or even have a CD player at all.

Yes, with music, you can move it to their iDevice
other ways like by using dropbox or something
similar to that or even by emailing it to them,
but that isn't viable with movies and other video
content.

> what you can't do is give it to them
> and keep a copy for yourself,

That is wrong if that copy is just in your backup
and you never use it again because you have lost
interest in it or decided that you didn't like it.

> which is almost certainly what you're doing.

Wrong. I have lots of music that I will never play again.

I hardly ever watch movies or TV series more than once either.

>> >> Or a movie etc that isn't supported by the iDevice.
>>
>> > that's easy.
>>
>> The UI makes it harder to do than it should be.
>
> no it doesn't.

Of course it does when you can't do that the same
way that you move movies that are in a format that
the iDevice does support.

Michelle Steiner

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 12:28:05 AM1/22/15
to
In article <cibf7v...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> >> > Why in the world would you put a movie onto an iDevice if that
> >> > movie isn't supported by the iDevice?
> >>
> >> Because that is how you got it and you want to watch it on your
> >> iDevice because that is all you have to watch it on.
>
> > If you got it on the iDevice,
>
> I didn't.

If the iDevice is all you have to watch it on, you must have got it on
the iDevice; otherwise, you can watch it on the device you got it on.

> > you don't need iTunes to move it to the iDevice,
>
> Duh.
>
> > and if the iDevice doesn't support
> > it, you can't watch it on the iDevice.
>
> You can actually, just use another media player like VLC.

Ah, so the iDevice does support it, contrary to your saying that it
doesn't support it.

> > You are not making any sense.
>
> Wrong.

I just showed that I'm right.

Michelle Steiner

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 12:36:42 AM1/22/15
to
In article <cibfcv...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> If you want to move a movie to your iDevice that
> iOS does not support the format of,

First you say that the iDevice doesn't support it, and now you say that
iOS doesn't support it. Both statements are wrong because you can play
it on an iDevice that uses iOS.

> you do that very differently to how you move a movie whose format is
> supported by iOS. That is very counter intuitive indeed.

But as you just showed, the movie is supported by iOS because you can
view it with VLC which runs on iOS.

Thing is that you are trying to use iTunes to do something that it's
not designed to do. That doesn't make iTunes counterintuitive.

But continue to believe what you want to believe, and whine about
things to your heart's content.

john james

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 12:48:31 AM1/22/15
to


"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:210120152228048061%mich...@michelle.org...
> In article <cibf7v...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> >> > Why in the world would you put a movie onto an iDevice if that
>> >> > movie isn't supported by the iDevice?
>> >>
>> >> Because that is how you got it and you want to watch it on your
>> >> iDevice because that is all you have to watch it on.
>>
>> > If you got it on the iDevice,
>>
>> I didn't.

> If the iDevice is all you have to watch it on,
> you must have got it on the iDevice;

No, it came from the PVR.

> otherwise, you can watch it on the device you got it on.

Not when its not your PVR and the iDevice
is the only thing you can watch it on.

>> > you don't need iTunes to move it to the iDevice,
>>
>> Duh.
>>
>> > and if the iDevice doesn't support
>> > it, you can't watch it on the iDevice.
>>
>> You can actually, just use another media player like VLC.

> Ah, so the iDevice does support it,

No it does not. You need another media player to play it.

> contrary to your saying that it doesn't support it.

It doesn't support it if you have to
add another media player to play it.

>> > You are not making any sense.
>>
>> Wrong.
>
> I just showed that I'm right.

No you did not.

And even if you were, you have to use iTunes very
differently to move the movie to the iDevice when
the iDevice doesn't support that format natively,
and that is very counter intuitive, as I said.

john james

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 12:50:33 AM1/22/15
to


"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:210120152236419079%mich...@michelle.org...
> In article <cibfcv...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> If you want to move a movie to your iDevice that
>> iOS does not support the format of,

> First you say that the iDevice doesn't support it,
> and now you say that iOS doesn't support it.

That is saying the same thing in different words because iDevices use iOS.

> Both statements are wrong

No they are not.

> because you can play it on an iDevice that uses iOS.

Not without adding a different media player.

And even when you do that, the way you move the movie
to the iDevice is done very differently for the two different
movie formats and that is very counter intuitive.

>> you do that very differently to how you move a movie whose format is
>> supported by iOS. That is very counter intuitive indeed.
>
> But as you just showed, the movie is supported by iOS

No it is not, it is supported by the different media player, not by iOS.

> because you can view it with VLC which runs on iOS.

It's irrelevant what it runs on, it can't be played on the
iDevice until you add VLC.

> Thing is that you are trying to use iTunes
> to do something that it's not designed to do.

It is in fact designed to allow you to move files that will
be played on the iDevice by an app that can play them.

> That doesn't make iTunes counterintuitive.

It does when you move the files to the iDevice
completely differently when it can play them natively.

> But continue to believe what you want to believe,

I continue to know what I know I know thanks.

> and whine about things to your heart's content.

I didn't even whine about anything, just pointed out
that iTunes does some stuff very counter intuitively.

Deny that all you like, changes nothing.

victor davis

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 2:17:27 AM1/22/15
to
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 21:51:39 -0700, Michelle Steiner wrote:

> If you got it on the iDevice, you don't need iTunes to move it to the
> iDevice, and if the iDevice doesn't support it, you can't watch it on
> the iDevice. You are not making any sense.

You're so brainwashed by Apple that you think there is only one way,
the Apple way, to do this.

I do it all the time and I don't have to deal with any itunes bullshit.

victor davis

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 2:18:19 AM1/22/15
to
On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 15:15:48 +1100, john james wrote:

> There is no viable alternative with movies particularly
> which are too slow to move any other way.

What is wrong with VLC?

victor davis

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 2:20:00 AM1/22/15
to
On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 16:16:12 +1100, john james wrote:

> If you want to move a movie to your iDevice that
> iOS does not support the format of, you do that
> very differently to how you move a movie whose
> format is supported by iOS. That is very counter
> intuitive indeed.

What I do to move any movie, no matter what format it is in,
is just connect the iDevice to the desktop and copy the
movie over.

It's that intuitive. It just works.

Of course, I don't have itunes installed and never will.

victor davis

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Jan 22, 2015, 2:21:59 AM1/22/15
to
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 23:14:29 -0500, nospam wrote:

> if not, it's piracy.

Don't forget, Steve Jobs got his start wth piracy.

victor davis

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 2:23:46 AM1/22/15
to
On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 15:18:33 +1100, john james wrote:

> Duh. You were the only one who brought up piracy.

If I get what they're saying, is that the itunes bullshit is all
there to prevent piracy.

Said in real terms, itunes, in order to inhibit piracy, implements
a bullshit user model.

Nobody else implements that bullshit user model, so, everything
else is just intuitive. They just work.

john james

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Jan 22, 2015, 3:39:27 AM1/22/15
to


"victor davis" <v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote in message
news:m9q87o$avc$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
The main problem with it is that it isn't always available in the app store.

john james

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Jan 22, 2015, 3:41:31 AM1/22/15
to


"victor davis" <v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote in message
news:m9q8at$avc$2...@speranza.aioe.org...
> On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 16:16:12 +1100, john james wrote:
>
>> If you want to move a movie to your iDevice that
>> iOS does not support the format of, you do that
>> very differently to how you move a movie whose
>> format is supported by iOS. That is very counter
>> intuitive indeed.

> What I do to move any movie, no matter what format it is in, is
> just connect the iDevice to the desktop and copy the movie over.

Doesn’t work with iTunes.

> It's that intuitive. It just works.

Not with iTunes.

> Of course, I don't have itunes installed and never will.

We were discussing whether iTunes is counter intuitive in some areas.


john james

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Jan 22, 2015, 3:44:52 AM1/22/15
to


"victor davis" <v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote in message
news:m9q8hv$avc$4...@speranza.aioe.org...
> On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 15:18:33 +1100, john james wrote:
>
>> Duh. You were the only one who brought up piracy.
>
> If I get what they're saying, is that the itunes bullshit is all
> there to prevent piracy.

No, they aren't saying that.

iTunes does in fact allow you to put pirated material on your iDevice.

> Said in real terms, itunes, in order to inhibit piracy, implements
> a bullshit user model.

It doesn’t inhibit piracy at all.

> Nobody else implements that bullshit user model,

Neither does iTunes.

> so, everything else is just intuitive. They just work.

There are plenty of other counter intuitive apps.

iTunes just happens to be one of the worst in that regard.

Jolly Roger

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 11:59:30 AM1/22/15
to
He hasn't made much sense from the start. He's trolling.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 22, 2015, 12:34:06 PM1/22/15
to
In article <cibfri...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> >> >> > I don't find it counter-intuitive at all. I open iTunes and
> >> >> > click the Music icon if I want to purchase music, organize my
> >> >> > own music, listen to iTunes Radio, or manage my playlists.
> >> >>
> >> >> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other than the
> >> >> iTunes store and just add it to someone else's iDevice because
> >> >> they want it on their iDevice.
> >>
> >> > that's piracy.
> >>
> >> Not when you paid for it when you bought the CD etc.
> >
> > only if you're giving the cd to the other person
>
> You don't have to do that, just never use it again.
>
> > and destroying any digital copies you may have.
>
> You don't have to do that either, just never use them again.
>
> > if not, it's piracy.
>
> Wrong if the other copies are just in your backups and you never use
> them again.

Wrong. It is a matter of possession, not intent to use or not use.
You have the potential to use it again or to give a copy to another
person; so long as you have that potential, it's piracy.

Michelle Steiner

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 12:44:31 PM1/22/15
to
In article <cibh9c...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> >> >> > Why in the world would you put a movie onto an iDevice if that
> >> >> > movie isn't supported by the iDevice?
> >> >>
> >> >> Because that is how you got it and you want to watch it on your
> >> >> iDevice because that is all you have to watch it on.
> >>
> >> > If you got it on the iDevice,
> >>
> >> I didn't.
>
> > If the iDevice is all you have to watch it on,
> > you must have got it on the iDevice;
>
> No, it came from the PVR.
>
> > otherwise, you can watch it on the device you got it on.
>
> Not when its not your PVR and the iDevice
> is the only thing you can watch it on.

PVR? Personal Video Recorder? If you have one of those, it's
connected to your TV set, so you can watch the movie on that TV set.

Furthermore, how do you move the file from the PVR to the iDevice?

> >> > and if the iDevice doesn't support
> >> > it, you can't watch it on the iDevice.
> >>
> >> You can actually, just use another media player like VLC.
>
> > Ah, so the iDevice does support it,
>
> No it does not. You need another media player to play it.

That media player is on the iDevice; therefore, the iDevice supports it.

> > contrary to your saying that it doesn't support it.
>
> It doesn't support it if you have to
> add another media player to play it.

The *device* supports it, regardless of what software you use on that
device.

Michelle Steiner

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 12:47:56 PM1/22/15
to
In article <cibhd6...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> >> If you want to move a movie to your iDevice that
> >> iOS does not support the format of,
>
> > First you say that the iDevice doesn't support it,
> > and now you say that iOS doesn't support it.
>
> That is saying the same thing in different words because iDevices use iOS.
>
> > Both statements are wrong
>
> No they are not.
>
> > because you can play it on an iDevice that uses iOS.
>
> Not without adding a different media player.

Big deal! If you are playing it on an iDevice running iOS, then the
iDevice and iOS supports it.

It may be that the Video app doesn't support the file, but that doesn't
mean that the device and OS don't support it.

Thanks for proving that either you don't know what you are talking
about or that you are a troll. Or both.

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 22, 2015, 12:52:01 PM1/22/15
to
In article <m9q8hv$avc$4...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
<v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 15:18:33 +1100, john james wrote:
>
> > Duh. You were the only one who brought up piracy.
>
> If I get what they're saying, is that the itunes bullshit is all
> there to prevent piracy.

You don't get it, trollboi.

Michelle Steiner

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 12:52:45 PM1/22/15
to
In article <cicojh...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
<jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2015-01-22, Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> > In article <cibc79...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> ><jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >
> >> > Why in the world would you put a movie onto an iDevice if that
> >> > movie isn't supported by the iDevice?
> >>
> >> Because that is how you got it and you want to watch it on your
> >> iDevice because that is all you have to watch it on.
> >
> > If you got it on the iDevice, you don't need iTunes to move it to the
> > iDevice, and if the iDevice doesn't support it, you can't watch it on
> > the iDevice. You are not making any sense.
>
> He hasn't made much sense from the start. He's trolling.

And the more he says, the less sense he makes.

john james

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 3:50:03 PM1/22/15
to


"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:220120151034042345%mich...@michelle.org...
> In article <cibfri...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> >> >> > I don't find it counter-intuitive at all. I open iTunes and
>> >> >> > click the Music icon if I want to purchase music, organize my
>> >> >> > own music, listen to iTunes Radio, or manage my playlists.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other than the
>> >> >> iTunes store and just add it to someone else's iDevice because
>> >> >> they want it on their iDevice.
>> >>
>> >> > that's piracy.
>> >>
>> >> Not when you paid for it when you bought the CD etc.
>> >
>> > only if you're giving the cd to the other person
>>
>> You don't have to do that, just never use it again.
>>
>> > and destroying any digital copies you may have.
>>
>> You don't have to do that either, just never use them again.
>>
>> > if not, it's piracy.
>>
>> Wrong if the other copies are just in your backups and you never use
>> them again.

> Wrong.

Nope.

> It is a matter of possession, not intent to use or not use.

It isn't that black and white, that varies with the jurisdiction.

> You have the potential to use it again or to give a copy to
> another person; so long as you have that potential, it's piracy.

Wrong.

john james

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 3:58:41 PM1/22/15
to


"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:220120151044289794%mich...@michelle.org...
> In article <cibh9c...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> >> >> > Why in the world would you put a movie onto an iDevice if that
>> >> >> > movie isn't supported by the iDevice?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Because that is how you got it and you want to watch it on your
>> >> >> iDevice because that is all you have to watch it on.
>> >>
>> >> > If you got it on the iDevice,
>> >>
>> >> I didn't.
>>
>> > If the iDevice is all you have to watch it on,
>> > you must have got it on the iDevice;
>>
>> No, it came from the PVR.
>>
>> > otherwise, you can watch it on the device you got it on.
>>
>> Not when its not your PVR and the iDevice
>> is the only thing you can watch it on.
>
> PVR? Personal Video Recorder?

Yes.

> If you have one of those, it's connected to your TV set,

Mine isn't.

> so you can watch the movie on that TV set.

Not when you are given what you recorded to someone else.

> Furthermore, how do you move the file from the PVR to the iDevice?

My desktop PC is the PVR so you move it to
the iDevice in exactly the same way you move
any other large file on the PC, using iTunes.

>> >> > and if the iDevice doesn't support
>> >> > it, you can't watch it on the iDevice.
>> >>
>> >> You can actually, just use another media player like VLC.
>>
>> > Ah, so the iDevice does support it,
>>
>> No it does not. You need another media player to play it.
>
> That media player is on the iDevice; therefore, the iDevice supports it.

But the iDevice does not support that format without
adding another media player.

>> > contrary to your saying that it doesn't support it.
>>
>> It doesn't support it if you have to
>> add another media player to play it.
>
> The *device* supports it,

Not without the media player it doesn't.

> regardless of what software you use on that device.

If you don't have a media player that supports
that format, the device doesn't support that format.

john james

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 4:02:25 PM1/22/15
to


"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:220120151047552167%mich...@michelle.org...
> In article <cibhd6...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> >> If you want to move a movie to your iDevice that
>> >> iOS does not support the format of,
>>
>> > First you say that the iDevice doesn't support it,
>> > and now you say that iOS doesn't support it.
>>
>> That is saying the same thing in different words because iDevices use
>> iOS.
>>
>> > Both statements are wrong
>>
>> No they are not.
>>
>> > because you can play it on an iDevice that uses iOS.
>>
>> Not without adding a different media player.

> Big deal! If you are playing it on an iDevice running iOS, then the
> iDevice and iOS supports it.

And if you don't add another media player,
neither the iDevice nor iOS supports that format.

> It may be that the Video app doesn't support the file, but
> that doesn't mean that the device and OS don't support it.

The device and the OS clearly don't support that format
if they can't play it.

> Thanks for proving that either you don't know what
> you are talking about or that you are a troll. Or both.

No thanks for proving that you never have the
balls to admit that you are just plain wrong.

Michelle Steiner

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 8:44:51 PM1/22/15
to
In article <cid6jv...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> > That media player is on the iDevice; therefore, the iDevice supports it.
>
> But the iDevice does not support that format without
> adding another media player.

Big deal.

> > Furthermore, how do you move the file from the PVR to the iDevice?
>
> My desktop PC is the PVR so you move it to
> the iDevice in exactly the same way you move
> any other large file on the PC, using iTunes.

It would help if you would use the commonly accepted definitions of
terms. A PVR (AKA DVR) is a stand-alone device that receives video to
and is connected a display, usually a TV set; unless the computer is
used in that manner, it is not referred to as a PVR.

But since you have the video on the computer, you can watch it there,
so your saying that you can watch it only on the iDevice is incorrect.

> >> > Ah, so the iDevice does support it,
> >>
> >> No it does not. You need another media player to play it.
> >
> > That media player is on the iDevice; therefore, the iDevice
> > supports it.
>
> But the iDevice does not support that format without adding another
> media player.

Wrong; the iDevice supports it. The Video app doesn't support it.
Learn the difference between hardware, operating system, and
application software in order to possibly stop making a fool of
yourself.

> If you don't have a media player that supports
> that format, the device doesn't support that format.

You can keep repeating that nonsense forever, but that doesn't make it
true.

Michelle Steiner

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 8:46:42 PM1/22/15
to
In article <cid6qv...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> > Thanks for proving that either you don't know what
> > you are talking about or that you are a troll. Or both.
>
> No thanks for proving that you never have the
> balls to admit that you are just plain wrong.

Unlike you, I admit it when I'm wrong. And unlike you, I know what the
fuck I'm talking about.

john james

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 9:00:47 PM1/22/15
to


"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:220120151844491518%mich...@michelle.org...
> In article <cid6jv...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> > That media player is on the iDevice; therefore, the iDevice supports
>> > it.
>>
>> But the iDevice does not support that format without
>> adding another media player.
>
> Big deal.

No one said anything about a big deal except you.

What was clearly being discussed was whether how
you move the files to the device is quite different when
the device can't play the file natively and needs another
media player to play it and that that is counter intuitive.

>> > Furthermore, how do you move the file from the PVR to the iDevice?
>>
>> My desktop PC is the PVR so you move it to
>> the iDevice in exactly the same way you move
>> any other large file on the PC, using iTunes.

> It would help if you would use the commonly accepted definitions of terms.

That is the commonly accepted definition of that term.

> A PVR (AKA DVR) is a stand-alone device that receives
> video to and is connected a display, usually a TV set;

That is just one type of PVR. And there is no AKA
DVR involved either, plenty of the stand alone
PVRs have no DVR involved at all, just a hard drive.

One of mine just has a USB that you can plug
anything you like into.

> unless the computer is used in that
> manner, it is not referred to as a PVR.

Wrong.

> But since you have the video on the computer, you can watch it there,

But the person who wants it on their iDevice can not,
because all they have to watch it on is their iDevice.

> so your saying that you can watch it only on the iDevice is incorrect.

No, the iDevice is all they have to watch it on.

My TV is not theirs and I don't even watch
what the PVR records on my TV anyway.

>> >> > Ah, so the iDevice does support it,
>> >>
>> >> No it does not. You need another media player to play it.
>> >
>> > That media player is on the iDevice; therefore, the iDevice
>> > supports it.
>>
>> But the iDevice does not support that format without adding another
>> media player.
>
> Wrong; the iDevice supports it.

No it does not. iTunes won't even move it to the
iDevice because it doesn't recognise it as a video.

> The Video app doesn't support it.

Neither does iTunes, it has no idea what it is.

> Learn the difference between hardware, operating
> system, and application software in order to
> possibly stop making a fool of yourself.

You're the only one making a very spectacular fool
of yourself on every single nit you attempted to pick.

>> If you don't have a media player that supports
>> that format, the device doesn't support that format.

> You can keep repeating that nonsense forever, but that doesn't make it
> true.

True in spades of your shit.

john james

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 9:09:41 PM1/22/15
to


"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:220120151846418235%mich...@michelle.org...
> In article <cid6qv...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> > Thanks for proving that either you don't know what
>> > you are talking about or that you are a troll. Or both.
>>
>> No thanks for proving that you never have the
>> balls to admit that you are just plain wrong.
>
> Unlike you, I admit it when I'm wrong.

Everyone can see for themselves that you
have never done anything of the sort.

The most you ever do is delete your stupidity
from the quoting and attack on something else
and hope no one notices what a spectacular
fool you have made of yourself, yet again.

> And unlike you, I know what the fuck I'm talking about.

You clearly don't with PVRs, iTunes or anything else either.

victor davis

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 10:46:54 PM1/22/15
to
On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 10:52:00 -0700, Michelle Steiner wrote:

> You don't get it, trollboi.

You are the one who said the rediculous itunes use model
is their to prevent piracy. Not me.

Jolly Roger

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 10:54:51 PM1/22/15
to
My god, idiot, learn the language, for your own sake. What is it about
trolls and rednecks that so many of them can't even spell the simplest
of words or form coherent sentences?
Message has been deleted

victor davis

unread,
Jan 23, 2015, 12:23:45 AM1/23/15
to
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 10:51:25 -0700, Michelle Steiner wrote:

> Answer the question.

Google bloatware and itunes shows up every time.
Here are the first ten hits.

1. iTunes is Bloatware
http://macmost.com/itunes-is-bloatware.html

2. The unofficial guide to installing iTunes 10 without bloatware
http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-unofficial-guide-to-installing-itunes-10-without-bloatware/

3. Install iTunes 10 Minus The Bloatware (PC)
http://consumerist.com/2010/09/13/install-itunes-10-without-all-the-bloatware/

4. itunes bloatware removal
http://roosterteeth.com/forum/viewTopic.php?id=2218081

5. Step-by-Step Guide to Installing iTunes Without Extra Bloatware
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/28727/how-to-install-itunes-without-extra-bloat/

6. Install iTunes 10 Without the Extra Bloatware
http://lifehacker.com/5635089/install-itunes-10-without-the-extra-bloatware

7. How can I run iTunes without installing Bonjour in Windows 7?
http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/143474/how-can-i-run-itunes-without-installing-bonjour-in-windows-7

8. iTunes Bloatware - and its antidote
http://www.broadstuff.com/archives/2297-iTunes-Bloatware-and-its-antidote.html

9. Apple Support HOW TO: Install Itunes without Quicktime/Bonjour - Windows 7
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2742874

10. Install iTunes Without Quicktime And Bonjour
http://www.ghacks.net/2009/04/04/install-itunes-without-quicktime-and-bonjour/


victor davis

unread,
Jan 23, 2015, 12:29:06 AM1/23/15
to
On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 05:23:41 +0000, victor davis wrote:

> 2. The unofficial guide to installing iTunes 10 without bloatware
> http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-unofficial-guide-to-installing-
itunes-10-without-bloatware/

Summary:iTunes 10 might be brand new, but little has changed in
Cupertino. Apple still gives Windows users a single installer that
clutters your hard disk with a bunch of unnecessary components, some of
which can be harmful to your system's security and reliability. I show
you how to take control of the iTunes 10 installer so you get exactly
what you want and nothing more.

One of the most popular posts I wrote in 2008 was a set of step-by-step
instructions to help you do what Apple doesn't want you to do with iTunes
for Windows (see Slimming down the bloated iTunes installer). Now that
iTunes 10 has been released, it's apparent that nothing has changed in
Cupertino. Apple still gives its customers a monolithic iTunes setup
program with absolutely no options to pick and choose based on your
specific needs.

Why is that important? When you run the iTunes setup program, it unpacks
six Windows Installer packages and a master setup program, which then
installs nearly 300MB of program and support files, a kernel-mode CD/DVD-
burning driver, multiple system services, and a bunch of browser plugins.
It configures two "helper" programs to start automatically every time you
start your PC, giving you no easy way to disable them. It installs a
network service that many iTunes users don't need and that has been
associated with security and reliability issues.

And you wonder why I dislike iTunes with a passion that burns like the
fire of a thousand suns?

That's where this post comes in. It contains detailed, up-to-date
instructions for cracking open that gigantic iTunes installer and
installing just the pieces you want and need. I've also updated my advice
for individual scenarios so that you can make intelligent choices instead
of simply settling for Apple's defaults.

john james

unread,
Jan 23, 2015, 12:29:35 AM1/23/15
to


"Lewis" <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote in message
news:slrnmc3lc5....@kreme.eternal-september.org...
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? john james <jj9...@nospam.com> was all,
> like:
>
>
>> "Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
>> news:220120151846418235%mich...@michelle.org...
>>> In article <cid6qv...@mid.individual.net>, john james
>>> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> > Thanks for proving that either you don't know what
>>>> > you are talking about or that you are a troll. Or both.
>>>>
>>>> No thanks for proving that you never have the
>>>> balls to admit that you are just plain wrong.
>>>
>>> Unlike you, I admit it when I'm wrong.
>
>> Everyone can see for themselves that you
>> have never done anything of the sort.
>
>> The most you ever do is delete your stupidity
>> from the quoting and attack on something else
>> and hope no one notices what a spectacular
>> fool you have made of yourself, yet again.

> I think you're confusing Michelle with nospam.

He is even worse in that regard.

> That doesn't sound like her at all.

She just did that with her stupid claim about piracy which
in fact is nothing even remotely like piracy and she didn’t
have the balls to admit that she got that completely wrong.

She was completely wrong about whether the individual
with the iDevice can watch what was recorded by the PVR
using the TV she pig ignorantly claimed is attached to all
PVRs. Not only isn't there any TV attached to my PVR, it
isn't possible to watch what is recorded by the PVR on
the TV because I haven't bothered to connect up the TV
to the PVR even tho I have the hardware to do that.

And she never did manage to work out that the iDevice
is someone else's iDevice and that the owner of the
iDevice wants to watch what I had downloaded for
him from the net for him because he does not have
any net access at all and he wants to watch what
I downloaded for him on his iDevice at his home
and not at my place. And the last thing I want to
do is have him watch it at my place given the
shit he is interested in watching anyway.

And that isn't piracy either, our free to air channels
have the most popular stuff available for viewing
on the net for a few weeks after it is broadcast.

She never did have the balls to admit she was wrong
on that either.

>>> And unlike you, I know what the fuck I'm talking about.

>> You clearly don't with PVRs, iTunes or anything else either.

> You're the dumbass misusing PVR.

Wrong. A personal computer used to record free
to air TV is just as much a PVR as a stand alone
PVR that can play what it records on your TV.

> FTR, a PVR is the UK term for a DVR.

Wrong again. It isn't just a UK term.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_video_recorder

> It is a stand alone unit that connects to your TV and to a
> cable/sat box (or is integrated with it) and records streams.

That is just ONE form of PVR.


victor davis

unread,
Jan 23, 2015, 12:31:40 AM1/23/15
to
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 08:47:07 -0500, nospam wrote:

> then your needs are very simple and itunes is well over your head. you
> obviously don't even know what itunes can do.

I do every thing that I need to do without itunes.

Tell me what you can do with itunes that I can't do with out it!

victor davis

unread,
Jan 23, 2015, 12:43:40 AM1/23/15
to
On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 16:29:25 +1100, john james wrote:

> She just did that with her stupid claim about piracy which in fact is
> nothing even remotely like piracy and she didn’t have the balls to admit
> that she got that completely wrong.

Michelle isn't the one to worry about since she knows nothing.
Give her credit for pushing for this news group but that is about it.

It's nospam who actually knows somthing but he is already far too
brainwashed by Apple to think strait.

As for the rest, Jolly Roger doesn't offer any thing but useless venom.
Ant is the rare openminded person who can think for himself.
Your Name is some times balanced but mostly an Apple bigot.
BobbyK just tells you to go back to Africa if you don't like Apple.
Lewis is too foul mouthed to take seriously. Must be a young kid.
John McWilliams might have a personality but its hard to tell.
Alan Browne is open minded, like Ant, but does not post much.
News is some times OK but just as much an Apple bigot as Your Name.

You and I are the only ones both open minded and smart enough
to know bloatware when we see it.

Lucky I get every thing done I need to get done by just using
the right tools instead of itunes garbage.

Michelle Steiner

unread,
Jan 23, 2015, 1:04:12 AM1/23/15
to
In article <cie4ht...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> > That doesn't sound like her at all.
>
> She just did that with her stupid claim about piracy which
> in fact is nothing even remotely like piracy and she didnšt
> have the balls to admit that she got that completely wrong.

As a woman, it is true that I have no balls.

But I am spot on about piracy, but as a pirate, you are too loathe to
admit that you are one, coward that you are.

> And she never did manage to work out that the iDevice
> is someone else's iDevice and that the owner of the
> iDevice wants to watch what I had downloaded for
> him from the net for him because he does not have
> any net access at all and he wants to watch what
> I downloaded for him on his iDevice at his home
> and not at my place.

True, I didn't work that out because it is contrary to the bullshit
you've been posting, trollboi. Oh, and thanks for yet again showing us
that you are a pirate.

The bottom line is that you are a low-life, lying, pirate, fucking
troll. So just fuck off and leave us adults in peace, dipshit.

Michelle Steiner

unread,
Jan 23, 2015, 1:05:17 AM1/23/15
to
In article <m9sn27$6uv$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
<v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote:

> You and I are the only ones both open minded and smart enough
> to know bloatware when we see it.

You are so full of yourself that the shit is coming out of your
eyeballs and ears.

john james

unread,
Jan 23, 2015, 1:13:18 AM1/23/15
to


"victor davis" <v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote in message
news:m9sn27$6uv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 16:29:25 +1100, john james wrote:
>
>> She just did that with her stupid claim about piracy which in fact is
>> nothing even remotely like piracy and she didn’t have the balls to admit
>> that she got that completely wrong.
>
> Michelle isn't the one to worry about since she knows nothing.

I don’t worry about her at all, just point out where she is wrong.

> Give her credit for pushing for this news group but that is about it.

That would have happened anyway.

She mindlessly insists that the way Apple does something
is always the best way to do it. That is true in some ways,
particularly with the sandboxing but she is just plain
wrong on that in plenty of areas.

> It's nospam who actually knows somthing

Not always, and he never has the balls to admit when
he is wrong either, tho he does usually have enough
of a clue to shut up when eventually he does realise
that he is wrong.

> but he is already far too brainwashed by Apple to think strait.

He does think pretty straight most of the time, but
certainly does just toe the party line most of the time.

Not with iTunes tho.

> As for the rest, Jolly Roger doesn't offer any thing but useless venom.

True.

> Ant is the rare openminded person who can think for himself.

Quite a few of the other can do that too.

> Your Name is some times balanced but mostly an Apple bigot.

But is clearly just a troll since he doesn’t even have any sort of mobile
phone.

> BobbyK just tells you to go back to Africa if you don't like Apple.

And mindlessly nit picks and gets the nits wrong too.

> Lewis is too foul mouthed to take seriously. Must be a young kid.

No he's not.

> John McWilliams might have a personality but its hard to tell.

True.

> Alan Browne is open minded, like Ant, but does not post much.

True.

> News is some times OK but just as much an Apple bigot as Your Name.

> You and I are the only ones both open minded and
> smart enough to know bloatware when we see it.

I don’t see iTunes as bloatware so much as just very poorly
done and with an utterly obscene and counter intuitive user
interface, particularly with the less commonly done stuff.

> Lucky I get every thing done I need to get done by
> just using the right tools instead of itunes garbage.

I only use it when moving large files to an iDevice which
are too slow to do using dropbox or something like that.

victor davis

unread,
Jan 23, 2015, 1:37:02 AM1/23/15
to
On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 23:05:16 -0700, Michelle Steiner wrote:

> You are so full of yourself that the shit is coming out of
> your eyeballs and ears.

It's strange how upset you get when you ask the question
and I provide proof from google that itunes is synomonous
with bloatware and your only response is insults.

Says a lot about you.
I give you facts.
You give back only insults.

victor davis

unread,
Jan 23, 2015, 1:39:14 AM1/23/15
to
On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 17:13:08 +1100, john james wrote:

> She mindlessly insists that the way Apple does something is always the
> best way to do it. That is true in some ways,
> particularly with the sandboxing but she is just plain wrong on that in
> plenty of areas.

The problem with Michelle is she only has Apple devices.

She doesn't have Windows. She doesn't have Android. She doesn't have
Linux. All she knows is what Apple tells her. Like a mushroom.

Its nospam who knows the most and who isnt saying anything because
he knows we are right.

The rest dont count except for the very few like Ant and Alan Browne
who arent saying much.

victor davis

unread,
Jan 23, 2015, 1:40:29 AM1/23/15
to
On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 17:13:08 +1100, john james wrote:


> He does think pretty straight most of the time, but certainly does just
> toe the party line most of the time.

Oh he KNOWS the truth. He will toe the partyline every time and
he will repeat it thinking that by doing so he wins since he has
the last word.

But he KNOWs the truth. Unlike most of the rest.

Michelle Steiner

unread,
Jan 23, 2015, 1:42:20 AM1/23/15
to
In article <cie73r...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> She mindlessly insists that the way Apple does something
> is always the best way to do it.

Bullshit!

victor davis

unread,
Jan 23, 2015, 1:42:51 AM1/23/15
to
On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 17:13:08 +1100, john james wrote:

> I don’t see iTunes as bloatware so much as just very poorly done and
> with an utterly obscene and counter intuitive user interface,
> particularly with the less commonly done stuff.

I mostly see itunes as useless ware.
There is nothing I need to do that I cant do without itunes.
And I can do way more than what itunes can do.

The only thing itunes can do that nospam will tout is syncronize
but I dont want to syncronize so I dont need and dont want that
feature.

There is nothing I cant do that itunes can do that I need to do.

Michelle Steiner

unread,
Jan 23, 2015, 1:43:18 AM1/23/15
to
In article <m9sq6b$6uv$2...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
<v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote:

> > You are so full of yourself that the shit is coming out of
> > your eyeballs and ears.
>
> It's strange how upset you get when you ask the question
> and I provide proof from google that itunes is synomonous
> with bloatware and your only response is insults.

You give opinions, which is all you've ever given.

victor davis

unread,
Jan 23, 2015, 1:44:56 AM1/23/15
to
On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 23:04:11 -0700, Michelle Steiner wrote:

> But I am spot on about piracy, but as a pirate, you are too loathe to
> admit that you are one, coward that you are.

Hey. Just like Steve Jobs was a pirate. I am a pirate.
I take any content from any where and put it on my idevice.
I take any idevice from any where and put its content on another idevice.

What? What is that you say? Speak up. Oh. I'm sorry.
You cant do that?

Oh. You must be using itunes.

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 23, 2015, 1:45:11 AM1/23/15
to
In article <m9sqaf$6uv$3...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
<v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote:

> > She mindlessly insists that the way Apple does something is always the
> > best way to do it. That is true in some ways,
> > particularly with the sandboxing but she is just plain wrong on that in
> > plenty of areas.
>
> The problem with Michelle is she only has Apple devices.

That's not a problem.

> She doesn't have Windows. She doesn't have Android. She doesn't have
> Linux. All she knows is what Apple tells her. Like a mushroom.

Wrong, just because I don't have any of those other systems doesn't
mean that I swallow everything that Apple tells me. I also don't
swallow the crap that you Apple haters shove at me.

victor davis

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Jan 23, 2015, 1:48:19 AM1/23/15
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On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 23:43:17 -0700, Michelle Steiner wrote:

> You give opinions, which is all you've ever given.

Is it MY opinion that typing "bloatware" in google gets me
over ten articles on itunes bloatware in the first pass?

Itunes is synomonous with bloatware.
That is a fact.

It is not MY fact. I dont even use itunes.
I tried it but was disgusted and after digging through all
the msi files after unpacking with winrar I realzed on my own
that it is utter crapware.

I can do EVERY THING I need to do with out itunes that you
think you can do with iTunes and I dont need to install
nothing.

And I am not even smart like nospam! If with my 95 IQ I can
beat itunes hands down that should tell you what itunes is.

victor davis

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Jan 23, 2015, 1:49:12 AM1/23/15
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On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 23:42:19 -0700, Michelle Steiner wrote:

> Bullshit!

Is that you rodspeed faking michelles account?

victor davis

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Jan 23, 2015, 1:52:55 AM1/23/15
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On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 23:45:10 -0700, Michelle Steiner wrote:

> Wrong, just because I don't have any of those other systems doesn't mean
> that I swallow everything that Apple tells me. I also don't swallow the
> crap that you Apple haters shove at me.

You dont even realize itunes dont get you nothing.

That is because you dranked the jimjones punch too long ago to understand
there is a real world out there out side of itunes that just works.

I am not even smart and I dont need nothing to do every thing I need to
do with out itunes which is way more than you can do with itunes.

Baker Charles

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Jan 23, 2015, 1:56:28 AM1/23/15
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On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 05:29:03 +0000, victor davis wrote:

> And you wonder why I dislike iTunes with a passion that burns like the
> fire of a thousand suns?

Wow. Just wow.

john james

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Jan 23, 2015, 2:15:07 AM1/23/15
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"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:220120152304115247%mich...@michelle.org...
> In article <cie4ht...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> > That doesn't sound like her at all.
>>
>> She just did that with her stupid claim about piracy which
>> in fact is nothing even remotely like piracy and she didnšt
>> have the balls to admit that she got that completely wrong.
>
> As a woman, it is true that I have no balls.

> But I am spot on about piracy,

There is no piracy whatever involved.

> but as a pirate, you are too loathe to admit that you are one,

Nothing to admit. Recording something off air of a
free to air TV broadcast on my PVR and transferring
that to someone else's iDevice is perfectly legal.

So is downloading something that the free to air TV
channel chooses to make available on their web site
for a few weeks after it has been broadcast for
someone who has no net access and got me to do
that for them.

> coward that you are.

>> And she never did manage to work out that the iDevice
>> is someone else's iDevice and that the owner of the
>> iDevice wants to watch what I had downloaded for
>> him from the net for him because he does not have
>> any net access at all and he wants to watch what
>> I downloaded for him on his iDevice at his home
>> and not at my place.

> True, I didn't work that out because it is contrary
> to the bullshit you've been posting, trollboi.

Everyone can see that you are lying, again.

> Oh, and thanks for yet again showing us that you are a pirate.

Nothing illegal about doing that.

> The bottom line is that you are a low-life, lying, pirate, fucking troll.

You have just proven to the world that you don't have a clue, again.

> So just fuck off and leave us adults in peace, dipshit.

Demand denied.

john james

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Jan 23, 2015, 2:29:06 AM1/23/15
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"victor davis" <v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote in message
news:m9sqaf$6uv$3...@speranza.aioe.org...
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 17:13:08 +1100, john james wrote:
>
>> She mindlessly insists that the way Apple does something is always
>> the best way to do it. That is true in some ways, particularly with the
>> sandboxing but she is just plain wrong on that in plenty of areas.

> The problem with Michelle is she only has Apple devices.

Her real problem is that she is too stupid to realise that
she doesn’t have a clue about non Apple devices.

> She doesn't have Windows. She doesn't have Android. She
> doesn't have Linux. All she knows is what Apple tells her.

Not what Apple tells her so much as what she sees about Apple devices.

> Like a mushroom.

Indeed.

And whatever she claims, she never does admit when she
is wrong even on the most basic stuff like what is piracy.

> Its nospam who knows the most

Of those two, sure.

> and who isnt saying anything because he knows we are right.

Yes, he does have enough of a clue to shut up when proven wrong.

Michelle can't even manage that.

john james

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Jan 23, 2015, 2:30:57 AM1/23/15
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"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:220120152342192552%mich...@michelle.org...
Then you won't have any trouble listing where you have
said that Apple does it worse than someone else.

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