You Know What's Bullshit!? - iTunes

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victor davis

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Jan 19, 2015, 9:19:32 PM1/19/15
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You Know What's Bullshit!? - iTunes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ZqfvgUOWU

Ant

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Jan 20, 2015, 2:16:43 AM1/20/15
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On 1/19/2015 6:19 PM, victor davis wrote:
> You Know What's Bullshit!? - iTunes
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ZqfvgUOWU

Weird, I never saw this episode before.
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victor davis

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Jan 20, 2015, 1:37:11 PM1/20/15
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On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 23:16:41 -0800, Ant wrote:

>> You Know What's Bullshit!? - iTunes
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ZqfvgUOWU
>
> Weird, I never saw this episode before.

It's a pretty good episode which whose logic you can't argue
much with, as everything he says is right on the bullseye.

Even though he's only explaining why it's best to avoid updating
iTunes, his advice applies just as well to most Apple software.

victor davis

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Jan 20, 2015, 1:43:19 PM1/20/15
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On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 18:37:05 +0000, victor davis wrote:

> It's a pretty good episode which whose logic you can't argue
> much with, as everything he says is right on the bullseye.

Direct quote: "iTunes is turning into a monstor"

For example, deauthorizing bullshit, update lost functionality
bullshit, update haunting message bullshit, & update causing
genius/ping/etc bootup bullshit.

Direct quote: "Stop updating iTunes!"




John McWilliams

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Jan 20, 2015, 2:39:31 PM1/20/15
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How nice of you to agree with yourself.

What a crock.


Your Name

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Jan 20, 2015, 2:50:42 PM1/20/15
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In article <m9m78h$1cp$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
And yet it's still about 50quintabazillion times better than any of the
utter garbage Microsloth produces from its toilet cleaner quality
"prgramming" divions.

nospam

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Jan 20, 2015, 3:54:10 PM1/20/15
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In article <m9m78h$1cp$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
<v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote:

> >> You Know What's Bullshit!? - iTunes
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ZqfvgUOWU
> >
> > Weird, I never saw this episode before.
>
> It's a pretty good episode which whose logic you can't argue
> much with, as everything he says is right on the bullseye.

actually none of it is even close.

itunes doesn't ask about updates if autoupdate is disabled, ping has
been history for a while and the reason why cd burning was removed from
the main panel is because fewer people burn discs (especially since
there aren't built-in optical drives anymore), exactly as he says.

he just wants to rant and make an idiot out of himself.

nospam

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Jan 20, 2015, 3:54:11 PM1/20/15
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In article <m9m7k3$1cp$2...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
<v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote:

>
> > It's a pretty good episode which whose logic you can't argue
> > much with, as everything he says is right on the bullseye.
>
> Direct quote: "iTunes is turning into a monstor"

did he misspell it?

> For example, deauthorizing bullshit,

what bullshit is that? deauthorizing is easy, including systems that
the user no longer has. there really isn't a better way to do it than
how it's done now. do you have a better suggestion on how to
deauthorize a system the user no longer owns without making it trivial
to pirate?

> update lost functionality bullshit,

the cd burning wasn't lost.

as he said, it's not used as much, so its no longer in the main window.

> update haunting message bullshit,

that's easily disabled and he didn't do it.

> & update causing
> genius/ping/etc bootup bullshit.

there isn't any bootup bullshit and ping has been gone for a *while*.

> Direct quote: "Stop updating iTunes!"

what he should have said is "i should learn how to use this app and
configure it to do what i want."

he could have disabled the functionality he did not want in less time
than it took to make that idiotic video.

Alan Browne

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Jan 20, 2015, 7:54:09 PM1/20/15
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On 2015.01.19 21:19 , victor davis wrote:
> You Know What's Bullshit!? - iTunes
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ZqfvgUOWU

Other than itunes becoming grotesque and complex morass, which is true,
most of his gripes are BS.

Obsessing over the burn CD button being gone. Really?

Not really understanding the Authorize/De-authorize mechanism? Really?

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News

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Jan 20, 2015, 9:06:22 PM1/20/15
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On 1/20/2015 7:54 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2015.01.19 21:19 , victor davis wrote:
>> You Know What's Bullshit!? - iTunes
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ZqfvgUOWU
>
> Other than itunes becoming grotesque and complex morass, which is true,
> most of his gripes are BS.
>
> Obsessing over the burn CD button being gone. Really?
>
> Not really understanding the Authorize/De-authorize mechanism? Really?
>


"It just works"

Differently every friggin time.

victor davis

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Jan 21, 2015, 12:54:14 AM1/21/15
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On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 15:54:10 -0500, nospam wrote:

> what bullshit is that? deauthorizing is easy, including systems that
> the user no longer has. there really isn't a better way to do it than
> how it's done now. do you have a better suggestion on how to
> deauthorize a system the user no longer owns without making it trivial
> to pirate?

Did you listen to the video?
It's from the cinema massacre guy, who is well respected.
His points are all valid.
Why should you even have to deauthorize?
Only an Apple brainwhashed peson would think that's sane.

And, from a company founded by an ackknowledged pirate himself
(Steve Jobs originally sold telephone tone generators to scam AT&T).

victor davis

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Jan 21, 2015, 12:56:44 AM1/21/15
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 08:50:45 +1300, Your Name wrote:

> And yet it's still about 50quintabazillion times better than any of the
> utter garbage Microsloth produces from its toilet cleaner quality
> "prgramming" divions.

You've got to be off your rocker if you think iTunes
has a sane use model.

It's a monstor of crap.
You don't even know any better.

Try Groove some day.
You'll never use iTunes shit again.

victor davis

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Jan 21, 2015, 12:58:22 AM1/21/15
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On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 19:54:08 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:

> Not really understanding the Authorize/De-authorize mechanism? Really?

Why should you even have to deauthorize?
Only an Apple brainwashed person would even THINK that way.
At leaset you agree that itunes is grotisque.

Your Name

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Jan 21, 2015, 1:07:32 AM1/21/15
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In article <m9neu2$u1l$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
It has virtually nothing to do with Apple or Steve Jobs. The DRM system
was at the insistence of the industries creating the content.

It's not just them either. Adobe used to have a similar system when
installing / using their applications. To stop people using one
licensed copy on multiple computers, you had one authorised install and
if you wanted to use the software on another computer, then you had to
first deauthorise the first one ... which, as we discovered, was a pain
in the backside when the first computer had been stolen.

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 21, 2015, 1:07:33 AM1/21/15
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In article <m9neu2$u1l$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
<v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote:

> Why should you even have to deauthorize?

Because if you sell or give away the computer, you don't want that
computer attached to your iTunes account any more.

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 21, 2015, 1:09:54 AM1/21/15
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In article <m9nf5s$u1l$3...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
<v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote:

> > Not really understanding the Authorize/De-authorize mechanism? Really?
>
> Why should you even have to deauthorize?
> Only an Apple brainwashed person would even THINK that way.

Please tell us, in your own words, why you should never have to
de-authorize?

> At leaset you agree that itunes is grotisque.

Learn how to spell and/or proofread your work.

Your Name

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Jan 21, 2015, 1:10:32 AM1/21/15
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In article <m9nf2p$u1l$2...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
And Microsloth's garbage is still 50quintabazillion times worse than
anything Apple has ever made. Any issues with iYunes on a Windoze PC
are almost all down to Microsloth's complete inability to properly
program a computer and the disasterous mess of non-standards and weird
hardware.

nospam

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Jan 21, 2015, 1:11:55 AM1/21/15
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In article <m9neu2$u1l$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
<v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote:

> > what bullshit is that? deauthorizing is easy, including systems that
> > the user no longer has. there really isn't a better way to do it than
> > how it's done now. do you have a better suggestion on how to
> > deauthorize a system the user no longer owns without making it trivial
> > to pirate?
>
> Did you listen to the video?

unfortunately not only did i listen to it, but i had the misfortune of
watching it.

> It's from the cinema massacre guy, who is well respected.

someone who lies is not respected.

> His points are all valid.

none of them are.

the valid point is that he's an idiot who doesn't know how to use
itunes.

auto-update is easily disabled, deauthorization is easy, bitching bout
the cd burn icon going away is absurd, ping has been dead for quite a
while and the genius stuff can be turned off.

itunes isn't perfect (nothing is), but he didn't talk about what's
really wrong with it.

> Why should you even have to deauthorize?

because the music and movie industry imposes drm and a limit to how
many systems can be concurrently authorized. go bitch at them for
forcing it upon apple and users.

apple historically has opposed drm and copy protection, but they didn't
have a choice to launch the music store and video store.

the music industry has since realized that online sales was actually a
good thing so they no longer require drm, but the movie industry still
does.

the way itunes implements drm affects very few people because most
people know to deauthorize a system when replacing it but for those who
forget, there's a way to do it without having the actual system.

> Only an Apple brainwhashed peson would think that's sane.

only an apple hater would say that.

> And, from a company founded by an ackknowledged pirate himself
> (Steve Jobs originally sold telephone tone generators to scam AT&T).

what does that have to do with anything?

john james

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Jan 21, 2015, 1:23:37 AM1/21/15
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"Your Name" <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote in message
news:210120151910401203%Your...@YourISP.com...
Bullshit. The user interface is completely fucked and completely counter
intuitive.

> and the disasterous mess of non-standards and weird hardware.

Nothing weird about USB hardware.

Message has been deleted

Ant

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Jan 21, 2015, 3:01:59 AM1/21/15
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>>> You Know What's Bullshit!? - iTunes
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ZqfvgUOWU
>>
>> Weird, I never saw this episode before.
>
> It's a pretty good episode which whose logic you can't argue
> much with, as everything he says is right on the bullseye.
>
> Even though he's only explaining why it's best to avoid updating
> iTunes, his advice applies just as well to most Apple software.

I do agree with him. :(
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Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

victor davis

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Jan 21, 2015, 6:59:20 AM1/21/15
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 19:10:40 +1300, Your Name wrote:

> And Microsloth's garbage is still 50quintabazillion times worse

What does Microsoft even have to do with this conversation?

victor davis

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Jan 21, 2015, 7:05:56 AM1/21/15
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On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 23:07:32 -0700, Michelle Steiner wrote:

> Because if you sell or give away the computer, you don't want that
> computer attached to your iTunes account any more.

If you sell or give away your computer, you've already formatted
your hard drives.

victor davis

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Jan 21, 2015, 7:09:36 AM1/21/15
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On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 23:09:53 -0700, Michelle Steiner wrote:

> Please tell us, in your own words, why you should never have to
> de-authorize?

Simple.
Don't install iTunes and you won't ever have to put up with
that bullshit.

I use Sharepod for ipods, and it does everything I need it to
do plus way more that itunes can't do except initialize the ipod.

I use Groove for ipads and it does, for me, all that I want,
so I don't ever have to use itunes.

On my desktop, I don't have itunes on it and with sharepod
and the basic drivers, I can do everything I need.

All without that grotesq bullshit that is itunes!

nospam

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Jan 21, 2015, 8:47:07 AM1/21/15
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In article <m9o4mv$jb2$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
<v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote:

> > Because if you sell or give away the computer, you don't want that
> > computer attached to your iTunes account any more.
>
> If you sell or give away your computer, you've already formatted
> your hard drives.

so what?

you obviously don't understand itunes any more than the idiot who made
the video.

nospam

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Jan 21, 2015, 8:47:08 AM1/21/15
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In article <m9o4ts$jb2$2...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
<v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote:

> > Please tell us, in your own words, why you should never have to
> > de-authorize?
>
> Simple.
> Don't install iTunes and you won't ever have to put up with
> that bullshit.

if you don't buy music from the itunes store then it won't be an issue.
you probably pirate all your music.

> I use Sharepod for ipods, and it does everything I need it to
> do

then your needs are very simple and itunes is well over your head. you
obviously don't even know what itunes can do.

> plus way more that itunes can't do except initialize the ipod.

it can't do a whole lot more than that.

Jolly Roger

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Jan 21, 2015, 10:59:19 AM1/21/15
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For music playing only? Groove doesn't seem to support synchronizing
content and settings from my iOS devices to my computers, nor backing up
my iOS devices, nor any of the other things iTunes does. That's a no-go
for me. iTunes certainly isn't simple or top-notch; but it does get many
things done better than any other solution out there. Personally, I'd
like to see Apple break iTunes up into multiple apps/services so that
individually they would be more manageable and perhaps less dependant on
each other (i.e. less buggy). Barring that, I use it because it does
things I need done that cannot be done elsewhere.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Jolly Roger

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Jan 21, 2015, 11:02:06 AM1/21/15
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On 2015-01-21, john james <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
> "Your Name" <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote in message
> news:210120151910401203%Your...@YourISP.com...
>>
>> And Microsloth's garbage is still 50quintabazillion times worse than
>> anything Apple has ever made. Any issues with iYunes on a Windoze PC
>> are almost all down to Microsloth's complete inability to properly
>> program a computer
>
> Bullshit. The user interface is completely fucked and completely counter
> intuitive.

I don't find it counter-intuitive at all. I open iTunes and click the
Music icon if I want to purchase music, organize my own music, listen to
iTunes Radio, or manage my playlists. If I want to do something with
applications, I instead click the Apps icon, where I can purchase apps,
manage apps I already have, and so on. If I want to manage my iOS
devices, I click the device icon. It's all pretty well laid out for me.

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 21, 2015, 12:49:33 PM1/21/15
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In article <m9o4mv$jb2$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
Immaterial.

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 21, 2015, 12:51:26 PM1/21/15
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In article <m9o4ts$jb2$2...@speranza.aioe.org>, victor davis
<v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 23:09:53 -0700, Michelle Steiner wrote:
>
> > Please tell us, in your own words, why you should never have to
> > de-authorize?
>
> Simple.
> Don't install iTunes and you won't ever have to put up with
> that bullshit.

Answer the question.

> All without that grotesq bullshit that is itunes!

Your bigotry is showing.

john james

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Jan 21, 2015, 4:23:29 PM1/21/15
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"Jolly Roger" <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:cia0rt...@mid.individual.net...
> On 2015-01-21, john james <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> "Your Name" <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote in message
>> news:210120151910401203%Your...@YourISP.com...
>>>
>>> And Microsloth's garbage is still 50quintabazillion times worse than
>>> anything Apple has ever made. Any issues with iYunes on a Windoze PC
>>> are almost all down to Microsloth's complete inability to properly
>>> program a computer
>>
>> Bullshit. The user interface is completely fucked and completely counter
>> intuitive.
>
> I don't find it counter-intuitive at all. I open iTunes and click the
> Music icon if I want to purchase music, organize my own music,
> listen to iTunes Radio, or manage my playlists.

Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.

Or a movie etc that isn't supported by the iDevice.

> If I want to do something with applications,
> I instead click the Apps icon, where I can purchase
> apps, manage apps I already have, and so on.

I do all that on the iDevice itself.

> If I want to manage my iOS devices, I click the device icon.

> It's all pretty well laid out for me.

Not when you just want to be able to just play a video
file which the iDevice doesn’t support the format of.

nospam

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Jan 21, 2015, 4:25:59 PM1/21/15
to
In article <ciajme...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> > I don't find it counter-intuitive at all. I open iTunes and click the
> > Music icon if I want to purchase music, organize my own music,
> > listen to iTunes Radio, or manage my playlists.
>
> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
> than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
> iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.

that's piracy.

the other person can get their own copy (through legitimate channels)
and add it themselves.

> Or a movie etc that isn't supported by the iDevice.

that's easy.

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 21, 2015, 6:18:51 PM1/21/15
to
In article <ciajme...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
> than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
> iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.

No problem.

> Or a movie etc that isn't supported by the iDevice.

That has nothing to do with iTunes.

> > It's all pretty well laid out for me.
>
> Not when you just want to be able to just play a video
> file which the iDevice doesn¹t support the format of.

That has nothing to do with iTunes.

john james

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Jan 21, 2015, 9:31:07 PM1/21/15
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"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:210120151625587971%nos...@nospam.invalid...
> In article <ciajme...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> > I don't find it counter-intuitive at all. I open iTunes and click the
>> > Music icon if I want to purchase music, organize my own music,
>> > listen to iTunes Radio, or manage my playlists.
>>
>> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
>> than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
>> iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.

> that's piracy.

Not when you paid for it when you bought the CD etc.

> the other person can get their own copy (through
> legitimate channels) and add it themselves.

No reason why they should have to if
I choose to give what I paid for to them.

>> Or a movie etc that isn't supported by the iDevice.

> that's easy.

The UI makes it harder to do than it should be.

john james

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Jan 21, 2015, 9:43:15 PM1/21/15
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"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:210120151618508779%mich...@michelle.org...
> In article <ciajme...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
>> than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
>> iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.
>
> No problem.

Didn't say it was a problem, I said iTunes is very
counter intuitive when you need to do that.

>> Or a movie etc that isn't supported by the iDevice.
>
> That has nothing to do with iTunes.

It has everything to do with how iTunes
does that very counter intuitively.

>> > It's all pretty well laid out for me.
>>
>> Not when you just want to be able to just play a video
>> file which the iDevice doesn¹t support the format of.
>
> That has nothing to do with iTunes.

It has everything to do with how iTunes
does that very counter intuitively.


BobbyK

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Jan 21, 2015, 9:56:02 PM1/21/15
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On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 13:43:10 +1100, "john james" <jj9...@nospam.com>
wrote:
counter intuitively counter intuitively
counter intuitively counter intuitively
counter intuitively counter intuitively
counter intuitively counter intuitively
counter intuitively counter intuitively
counter intuitively counter intuitively
counter intuitively counter intuitively

Just don't use iTunes and quit your bitching.

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 21, 2015, 10:08:29 PM1/21/15
to
In article <cib5n9...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> >> > I don't find it counter-intuitive at all. I open iTunes and click the
> >> > Music icon if I want to purchase music, organize my own music,
> >> > listen to iTunes Radio, or manage my playlists.
> >>
> >> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
> >> than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
> >> iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.
>
> > that's piracy.
>
> Not when you paid for it when you bought the CD etc.

Unless you get rid of it on your own devices, it is piracy.

> > the other person can get their own copy (through
> > legitimate channels) and add it themselves.
>
> No reason why they should have to if
> I choose to give what I paid for to them.

If you truly give it to them, and not just make a copy for them, that
is OK, but if you make a copy for them while keeping the original (or a
copy) for yourself, it's piracy. Just as if you burned it on a CD for
them or (in the days of yore) made a tape recording of it for them.

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 21, 2015, 10:11:52 PM1/21/15
to
In article <cib6e1...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> >> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
> >> than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
> >> iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.
> >
> > No problem.
>
> Didn't say it was a problem, I said iTunes is very
> counter intuitive when you need to do that.

If it is counter intuitive, it is a problem. But it is not
counterintuitive.

> >> Or a movie etc that isn't supported by the iDevice.
> >
> > That has nothing to do with iTunes.
>
> It has everything to do with how iTunes
> does that very counter intuitively.

Why in the world would you put a movie onto an iDevice if that movie
isn't supported by the iDevice?

> >> > It's all pretty well laid out for me.
> >>
> >> Not when you just want to be able to just play a video
> >> file which the iDevice doesn¹t support the format of.
> >
> > That has nothing to do with iTunes.
>
> It has everything to do with how iTunes
> does that very counter intuitively.

Why in the world would you put a video onto an iDevice if that video
isn't supported by the iDevice?

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 21, 2015, 10:13:02 PM1/21/15
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In article <gep0cah88pavul65q...@4ax.com>, BobbyK
The problem is that he thinks that "intuitively" means "the way I want
to do it", or "the way I'm used to doing it with other software".

nospam

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Jan 21, 2015, 11:14:30 PM1/21/15
to
In article <cib5n9...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> >> > I don't find it counter-intuitive at all. I open iTunes and click the
> >> > Music icon if I want to purchase music, organize my own music,
> >> > listen to iTunes Radio, or manage my playlists.
> >>
> >> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
> >> than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
> >> iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.
>
> > that's piracy.
>
> Not when you paid for it when you bought the CD etc.

only if you're giving the cd to the other person and destroying any
digital copies you may have.

if not, it's piracy.

> > the other person can get their own copy (through
> > legitimate channels) and add it themselves.
>
> No reason why they should have to if
> I choose to give what I paid for to them.

you can give them the cd. what you can't do is give it to them and keep
a copy for yourself, which is almost certainly what you're doing.

> >> Or a movie etc that isn't supported by the iDevice.
>
> > that's easy.
>
> The UI makes it harder to do than it should be.

no it doesn't.

john james

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Jan 21, 2015, 11:15:54 PM1/21/15
to


"BobbyK" <bkn...@Conramp.net> wrote in message
news:gep0cah88pavul65q...@4ax.com...
There is no viable alternative with movies particularly
which are too slow to move any other way.



john james

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Jan 21, 2015, 11:18:38 PM1/21/15
to


"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:210120152008285485%mich...@michelle.org...
> In article <cib5n9...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> >> > I don't find it counter-intuitive at all. I open iTunes and click
>> >> > the
>> >> > Music icon if I want to purchase music, organize my own music,
>> >> > listen to iTunes Radio, or manage my playlists.
>> >>
>> >> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
>> >> than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
>> >> iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.
>>
>> > that's piracy.
>>
>> Not when you paid for it when you bought the CD etc.

> Unless you get rid of it on your own devices, it is piracy.

And when you do that, it isn't, just like when you give
someone a book you have already read or a CD or DVD
that you no longer use. Or if you sell it to them either.

>> > the other person can get their own copy (through
>> > legitimate channels) and add it themselves.
>>
>> No reason why they should have to if
>> I choose to give what I paid for to them.
>
> If you truly give it to them, and not just make a copy for them, that
> is OK, but if you make a copy for them while keeping the original (or a
> copy) for yourself, it's piracy.

Duh. You were the only one who brought up piracy.

> Just as if you burned it on a CD for
> them or (in the days of yore) made a tape recording of it for them.

Duh.

john james

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Jan 21, 2015, 11:22:05 PM1/21/15
to


"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:210120152011517650%mich...@michelle.org...
> In article <cib6e1...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> >> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
>> >> than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
>> >> iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.
>> >
>> > No problem.
>>
>> Didn't say it was a problem, I said iTunes is very
>> counter intuitive when you need to do that.
>
> If it is counter intuitive, it is a problem.

It just means you have to look up how to do that
instead of just doing that. Not a problem at all.

> But it is not counterintuitive.

It is when you do it differently to how you do it with
something that was bought from the iTunes store.

>> >> Or a movie etc that isn't supported by the iDevice.
>> >
>> > That has nothing to do with iTunes.
>>
>> It has everything to do with how iTunes
>> does that very counter intuitively.
>
> Why in the world would you put a movie onto an iDevice if that movie
> isn't supported by the iDevice?

Because that is how you got it and you want to
watch it on your iDevice because that is all you
have to watch it on.

>> >> > It's all pretty well laid out for me.
>> >>
>> >> Not when you just want to be able to just play a video
>> >> file which the iDevice doesn¹t support the format of.
>> >
>> > That has nothing to do with iTunes.
>>
>> It has everything to do with how iTunes
>> does that very counter intuitively.
>
> Why in the world would you put a video onto an iDevice if that video
> isn't supported by the iDevice?

Because that is how you got it and you want to
watch it on your iDevice because that is all you
have to watch it on.


john james

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Jan 21, 2015, 11:23:32 PM1/21/15
to


"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:210120152013011856%mich...@michelle.org...
I know that intuitively means how iTunes does
other stuff like a movie that it can play natively.

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 21, 2015, 11:51:40 PM1/21/15
to
In article <cibc79...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> > Why in the world would you put a movie onto an iDevice if that
> > movie isn't supported by the iDevice?
>
> Because that is how you got it and you want to watch it on your
> iDevice because that is all you have to watch it on.

If you got it on the iDevice, you don't need iTunes to move it to the
iDevice, and if the iDevice doesn't support it, you can't watch it on
the iDevice. You are not making any sense.

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 21, 2015, 11:54:42 PM1/21/15
to
In article <cibca2...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> I know that intuitively means how iTunes does
> other stuff like a movie that it can play natively.

Do you know what you're talking about? You are not making any sense.

john james

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 12:13:38 AM1/22/15
to


"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:210120152151396951%mich...@michelle.org...
> In article <cibc79...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> > Why in the world would you put a movie onto an iDevice if that
>> > movie isn't supported by the iDevice?
>>
>> Because that is how you got it and you want to watch it on your
>> iDevice because that is all you have to watch it on.

> If you got it on the iDevice,

I didn't.

> you don't need iTunes to move it to the iDevice,

Duh.

> and if the iDevice doesn't support
> it, you can't watch it on the iDevice.

You can actually, just use another media player like VLC.

> You are not making any sense.

Wrong.

john james

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Jan 22, 2015, 12:16:17 AM1/22/15
to


"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:210120152154417852%mich...@michelle.org...
> In article <cibca2...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> I know that intuitively means how iTunes does
>> other stuff like a movie that it can play natively.
>
> Do you know what you're talking about?

Yes.

> You are not making any sense.

If you want to move a movie to your iDevice that
iOS does not support the format of, you do that
very differently to how you move a movie whose
format is supported by iOS. That is very counter
intuitive indeed.

john james

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Jan 22, 2015, 12:24:05 AM1/22/15
to


"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:210120152314298596%nos...@nospam.invalid...
> In article <cib5n9...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> >> > I don't find it counter-intuitive at all. I open iTunes and click
>> >> > the
>> >> > Music icon if I want to purchase music, organize my own music,
>> >> > listen to iTunes Radio, or manage my playlists.
>> >>
>> >> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other
>> >> than the iTunes store and just add it to someone else's
>> >> iDevice because they want it on their iDevice.
>>
>> > that's piracy.
>>
>> Not when you paid for it when you bought the CD etc.
>
> only if you're giving the cd to the other person

You don't have to do that, just never use it again.

> and destroying any digital copies you may have.

You don't have to do that either, just never use them again.

> if not, it's piracy.

Wrong if the other copies are just in your
backups and you never use them again.

>> > the other person can get their own copy (through
>> > legitimate channels) and add it themselves.
>>
>> No reason why they should have to if
>> I choose to give what I paid for to them.
>
> you can give them the cd.

You don't have to do that, you can just put what
you want to give them on their iDevice and that
is a much better approach if they don't know how
to get it from the CD to their iDevice or they don't
even have a CD player that can be used to get it
onto their iDevice or even have a CD player at all.

Yes, with music, you can move it to their iDevice
other ways like by using dropbox or something
similar to that or even by emailing it to them,
but that isn't viable with movies and other video
content.

> what you can't do is give it to them
> and keep a copy for yourself,

That is wrong if that copy is just in your backup
and you never use it again because you have lost
interest in it or decided that you didn't like it.

> which is almost certainly what you're doing.

Wrong. I have lots of music that I will never play again.

I hardly ever watch movies or TV series more than once either.

>> >> Or a movie etc that isn't supported by the iDevice.
>>
>> > that's easy.
>>
>> The UI makes it harder to do than it should be.
>
> no it doesn't.

Of course it does when you can't do that the same
way that you move movies that are in a format that
the iDevice does support.

Michelle Steiner

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 12:28:05 AM1/22/15
to
In article <cibf7v...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> >> > Why in the world would you put a movie onto an iDevice if that
> >> > movie isn't supported by the iDevice?
> >>
> >> Because that is how you got it and you want to watch it on your
> >> iDevice because that is all you have to watch it on.
>
> > If you got it on the iDevice,
>
> I didn't.

If the iDevice is all you have to watch it on, you must have got it on
the iDevice; otherwise, you can watch it on the device you got it on.

> > you don't need iTunes to move it to the iDevice,
>
> Duh.
>
> > and if the iDevice doesn't support
> > it, you can't watch it on the iDevice.
>
> You can actually, just use another media player like VLC.

Ah, so the iDevice does support it, contrary to your saying that it
doesn't support it.

> > You are not making any sense.
>
> Wrong.

I just showed that I'm right.

Michelle Steiner

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 12:36:42 AM1/22/15
to
In article <cibfcv...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> If you want to move a movie to your iDevice that
> iOS does not support the format of,

First you say that the iDevice doesn't support it, and now you say that
iOS doesn't support it. Both statements are wrong because you can play
it on an iDevice that uses iOS.

> you do that very differently to how you move a movie whose format is
> supported by iOS. That is very counter intuitive indeed.

But as you just showed, the movie is supported by iOS because you can
view it with VLC which runs on iOS.

Thing is that you are trying to use iTunes to do something that it's
not designed to do. That doesn't make iTunes counterintuitive.

But continue to believe what you want to believe, and whine about
things to your heart's content.

john james

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 12:48:31 AM1/22/15
to


"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:210120152228048061%mich...@michelle.org...
> In article <cibf7v...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> >> > Why in the world would you put a movie onto an iDevice if that
>> >> > movie isn't supported by the iDevice?
>> >>
>> >> Because that is how you got it and you want to watch it on your
>> >> iDevice because that is all you have to watch it on.
>>
>> > If you got it on the iDevice,
>>
>> I didn't.

> If the iDevice is all you have to watch it on,
> you must have got it on the iDevice;

No, it came from the PVR.

> otherwise, you can watch it on the device you got it on.

Not when its not your PVR and the iDevice
is the only thing you can watch it on.

>> > you don't need iTunes to move it to the iDevice,
>>
>> Duh.
>>
>> > and if the iDevice doesn't support
>> > it, you can't watch it on the iDevice.
>>
>> You can actually, just use another media player like VLC.

> Ah, so the iDevice does support it,

No it does not. You need another media player to play it.

> contrary to your saying that it doesn't support it.

It doesn't support it if you have to
add another media player to play it.

>> > You are not making any sense.
>>
>> Wrong.
>
> I just showed that I'm right.

No you did not.

And even if you were, you have to use iTunes very
differently to move the movie to the iDevice when
the iDevice doesn't support that format natively,
and that is very counter intuitive, as I said.

john james

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 12:50:33 AM1/22/15
to


"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:210120152236419079%mich...@michelle.org...
> In article <cibfcv...@mid.individual.net>, john james
> <jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> If you want to move a movie to your iDevice that
>> iOS does not support the format of,

> First you say that the iDevice doesn't support it,
> and now you say that iOS doesn't support it.

That is saying the same thing in different words because iDevices use iOS.

> Both statements are wrong

No they are not.

> because you can play it on an iDevice that uses iOS.

Not without adding a different media player.

And even when you do that, the way you move the movie
to the iDevice is done very differently for the two different
movie formats and that is very counter intuitive.

>> you do that very differently to how you move a movie whose format is
>> supported by iOS. That is very counter intuitive indeed.
>
> But as you just showed, the movie is supported by iOS

No it is not, it is supported by the different media player, not by iOS.

> because you can view it with VLC which runs on iOS.

It's irrelevant what it runs on, it can't be played on the
iDevice until you add VLC.

> Thing is that you are trying to use iTunes
> to do something that it's not designed to do.

It is in fact designed to allow you to move files that will
be played on the iDevice by an app that can play them.

> That doesn't make iTunes counterintuitive.

It does when you move the files to the iDevice
completely differently when it can play them natively.

> But continue to believe what you want to believe,

I continue to know what I know I know thanks.

> and whine about things to your heart's content.

I didn't even whine about anything, just pointed out
that iTunes does some stuff very counter intuitively.

Deny that all you like, changes nothing.

victor davis

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 2:17:27 AM1/22/15
to
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 21:51:39 -0700, Michelle Steiner wrote:

> If you got it on the iDevice, you don't need iTunes to move it to the
> iDevice, and if the iDevice doesn't support it, you can't watch it on
> the iDevice. You are not making any sense.

You're so brainwashed by Apple that you think there is only one way,
the Apple way, to do this.

I do it all the time and I don't have to deal with any itunes bullshit.

victor davis

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 2:18:19 AM1/22/15
to
On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 15:15:48 +1100, john james wrote:

> There is no viable alternative with movies particularly
> which are too slow to move any other way.

What is wrong with VLC?

victor davis

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 2:20:00 AM1/22/15
to
On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 16:16:12 +1100, john james wrote:

> If you want to move a movie to your iDevice that
> iOS does not support the format of, you do that
> very differently to how you move a movie whose
> format is supported by iOS. That is very counter
> intuitive indeed.

What I do to move any movie, no matter what format it is in,
is just connect the iDevice to the desktop and copy the
movie over.

It's that intuitive. It just works.

Of course, I don't have itunes installed and never will.

victor davis

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Jan 22, 2015, 2:21:59 AM1/22/15
to
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 23:14:29 -0500, nospam wrote:

> if not, it's piracy.

Don't forget, Steve Jobs got his start wth piracy.

victor davis

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 2:23:46 AM1/22/15
to
On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 15:18:33 +1100, john james wrote:

> Duh. You were the only one who brought up piracy.

If I get what they're saying, is that the itunes bullshit is all
there to prevent piracy.

Said in real terms, itunes, in order to inhibit piracy, implements
a bullshit user model.

Nobody else implements that bullshit user model, so, everything
else is just intuitive. They just work.

john james

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Jan 22, 2015, 3:39:27 AM1/22/15
to


"victor davis" <v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote in message
news:m9q87o$avc$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
The main problem with it is that it isn't always available in the app store.

john james

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Jan 22, 2015, 3:41:31 AM1/22/15
to


"victor davis" <v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote in message
news:m9q8at$avc$2...@speranza.aioe.org...
> On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 16:16:12 +1100, john james wrote:
>
>> If you want to move a movie to your iDevice that
>> iOS does not support the format of, you do that
>> very differently to how you move a movie whose
>> format is supported by iOS. That is very counter
>> intuitive indeed.

> What I do to move any movie, no matter what format it is in, is
> just connect the iDevice to the desktop and copy the movie over.

Doesn’t work with iTunes.

> It's that intuitive. It just works.

Not with iTunes.

> Of course, I don't have itunes installed and never will.

We were discussing whether iTunes is counter intuitive in some areas.


john james

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Jan 22, 2015, 3:44:52 AM1/22/15
to


"victor davis" <v...@this.is.not.real.com> wrote in message
news:m9q8hv$avc$4...@speranza.aioe.org...
> On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 15:18:33 +1100, john james wrote:
>
>> Duh. You were the only one who brought up piracy.
>
> If I get what they're saying, is that the itunes bullshit is all
> there to prevent piracy.

No, they aren't saying that.

iTunes does in fact allow you to put pirated material on your iDevice.

> Said in real terms, itunes, in order to inhibit piracy, implements
> a bullshit user model.

It doesn’t inhibit piracy at all.

> Nobody else implements that bullshit user model,

Neither does iTunes.

> so, everything else is just intuitive. They just work.

There are plenty of other counter intuitive apps.

iTunes just happens to be one of the worst in that regard.

Jolly Roger

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Jan 22, 2015, 11:59:30 AM1/22/15
to
He hasn't made much sense from the start. He's trolling.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Michelle Steiner

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Jan 22, 2015, 12:34:06 PM1/22/15
to
In article <cibfri...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> >> >> > I don't find it counter-intuitive at all. I open iTunes and
> >> >> > click the Music icon if I want to purchase music, organize my
> >> >> > own music, listen to iTunes Radio, or manage my playlists.
> >> >>
> >> >> Now try taking a track you got from somewhere other than the
> >> >> iTunes store and just add it to someone else's iDevice because
> >> >> they want it on their iDevice.
> >>
> >> > that's piracy.
> >>
> >> Not when you paid for it when you bought the CD etc.
> >
> > only if you're giving the cd to the other person
>
> You don't have to do that, just never use it again.
>
> > and destroying any digital copies you may have.
>
> You don't have to do that either, just never use them again.
>
> > if not, it's piracy.
>
> Wrong if the other copies are just in your backups and you never use
> them again.

Wrong. It is a matter of possession, not intent to use or not use.
You have the potential to use it again or to give a copy to another
person; so long as you have that potential, it's piracy.

Michelle Steiner

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 12:44:31 PM1/22/15
to
In article <cibh9c...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> >> >> > Why in the world would you put a movie onto an iDevice if that
> >> >> > movie isn't supported by the iDevice?
> >> >>
> >> >> Because that is how you got it and you want to watch it on your
> >> >> iDevice because that is all you have to watch it on.
> >>
> >> > If you got it on the iDevice,
> >>
> >> I didn't.
>
> > If the iDevice is all you have to watch it on,
> > you must have got it on the iDevice;
>
> No, it came from the PVR.
>
> > otherwise, you can watch it on the device you got it on.
>
> Not when its not your PVR and the iDevice
> is the only thing you can watch it on.

PVR? Personal Video Recorder? If you have one of those, it's
connected to your TV set, so you can watch the movie on that TV set.

Furthermore, how do you move the file from the PVR to the iDevice?

> >> > and if the iDevice doesn't support
> >> > it, you can't watch it on the iDevice.
> >>
> >> You can actually, just use another media player like VLC.
>
> > Ah, so the iDevice does support it,
>
> No it does not. You need another media player to play it.

That media player is on the iDevice; therefore, the iDevice supports it.

> > contrary to your saying that it doesn't support it.
>
> It doesn't support it if you have to
> add another media player to play it.

The *device* supports it, regardless of what software you use on that
device.

Michelle Steiner

unread,
Jan 22, 2015, 12:47:56 PM1/22/15
to
In article <cibhd6...@mid.individual.net>, john james
<jj9...@nospam.com> wrote:

> >> If you want to move a movie to your iDevice that
> >> iOS does not