My favorite newsgroup is now online ! Asking for help building my own cable ...

[Peter Dassow]

That's really good, my favorite newsgroup is now online...

Now I am able to ask details about my Apple II card for my Color
Classic: I am still looking for instructions how to make my own disk
drive cable (e.g. with bare floppy drives like an FD-55A from TEAC) ....
any hints welcome.

Regards
Peter

[David Schmidt]

On 5/2/2013 2:41 PM, Peter Dassow wrote:
> Now I am able to ask details about my Apple II card for my
> Color Classic:

This question would have been perfectly reasonable in c.s.a2, but ok...

> I am still looking for instructions how to make my own disk
> drive cable (e.g. with bare floppy drives like an FD-55A from TEAC) ....
> any hints welcome.

You don't mean the Y-cable, do you? See question C4:
http://www.vintagemacworld.com/lc_card_faq.html#C

As for bare drive-ness - you're not going to go from a Disk II drive
interface directly to the TEAC's FDC interface. They aren't compatible
on that level. There's one offering that makes the high-density 3.5"
drive compatible by putting a microcontroller in between, making the
drive behave exactly like a Disk II:
http://www.bootzero.com/HDDD_A2_v1.2/HDDD_A2v1.2.html
but I suspect that's not exactly what you're after, either.

[Peter Dassow]

On 02.05.2013 20:55, David Schmidt wrote:
> On 5/2/2013 2:41 PM, Peter Dassow wrote:
> > Now I am able to ask details about my Apple II card for my
> > Color Classic:
>
> This question would have been perfectly reasonable in c.s.a2, but ok...

Not really, because it's Mac specific.

>> I am still looking for instructions how to make my own disk
>> drive cable (e.g. with bare floppy drives like an FD-55A from TEAC) ....
>> any hints welcome.
>
> You don't mean the Y-cable, do you? See question C4:
> http://www.vintagemacworld.com/lc_card_faq.html#C

Yes, I know this URL. There is no "only one disk drive-cable"...

> As for bare drive-ness - you're not going to go from a Disk II drive
> interface directly to the TEAC's FDC interface. They aren't compatible
> on that level. There's one offering that makes the high-density 3.5"
> drive compatible by putting a microcontroller in between, making the
> drive behave exactly like a Disk II:
> http://www.bootzero.com/HDDD_A2_v1.2/HDDD_A2v1.2.html
> but I suspect that's not exactly what you're after, either.

Huh ? That's totally new for me.
I had an Apple IIE for years, and I was able to connect always disk
drives directly to the controller card.
I suspected that the Apple II Card had already a disk controller inside,
so you just confused me now.

[David Schmidt]

On 5/3/2013 2:07 AM, Peter Dassow wrote:
> On 02.05.2013 20:55, David Schmidt wrote:
>> On 5/2/2013 2:41 PM, Peter Dassow wrote:
>> > Now I am able to ask details about my Apple II card for my
>> > Color Classic:
>>
>> This question would have been perfectly reasonable in c.s.a2, but ok...
>
> Not really, because it's Mac specific.

The IIe card? Not really. Well, ok, it plugs into an LC slot. ;-)

>> As for bare drive-ness - you're not going to go from a Disk II drive
>> interface directly to the TEAC's FDC interface. They aren't compatible
>> on that level. There's one offering that makes the high-density 3.5"
>> drive compatible by putting a microcontroller in between, making the
>> drive behave exactly like a Disk II:
>> http://www.bootzero.com/HDDD_A2_v1.2/HDDD_A2v1.2.html
>> but I suspect that's not exactly what you're after, either.
>
> Huh ? That's totally new for me.
> I had an Apple IIE for years, and I was able to connect always disk
> drives directly to the controller card.
> I suspected that the Apple II Card had already a disk controller inside,

The IIe card does have an integrated controller, the same standard as
every other Disk II controller ever produced. There's nothing different
about it... except the signals are coming out of that monster Y-cable.

> so you just confused me now.

Sorry about that. Maybe we're not understanding what your goals are -
and how they differ from your IIe?

[Peter Dassow]

On 03.05.2013 14:01, David Schmidt wrote:

>>> As for bare drive-ness - you're not going to go from a Disk II drive
>>> interface directly to the TEAC's FDC interface. They aren't compatible
>>> on that level. There's one offering that makes the high-density 3.5"
>>> drive compatible by putting a microcontroller in between, making the
>>> drive behave exactly like a Disk II:
>>> http://www.bootzero.com/HDDD_A2_v1.2/HDDD_A2v1.2.html
>>> but I suspect that's not exactly what you're after, either.
>>
>> Huh ? That's totally new for me.
>> I had an Apple IIE for years, and I was able to connect always disk
>> drives directly to the controller card.
>> I suspected that the Apple II Card had already a disk controller inside,
>
> The IIe card does have an integrated controller, the same standard as
> every other Disk II controller ever produced. There's nothing different
> about it... except the signals are coming out of that monster Y-cable.
>
>> so you just confused me now.
>
> Sorry about that. Maybe we're not understanding what your goals are -
> and how they differ from your IIe?

*You* wrote (see above) that I can't connect (with an appropriate cable)
my Apple II card directly to a floppy disk drive, and I wrote back that
this is unusual if a disk controller is build in.
My goal is to connect a spare floppy disk (I already wrote it will be a
TEAC FD55A) directly to that build in controller.
That days I had a real Apple II, this can be done just by
soldering/wiring the appropriate signal from the disk drive to the
pins/a connector from the controller itself.
The TEAC disk drives signals are 100% compatible to these old full
height Apple II disk drives.
I guess you was a bit confused, not me.

Regards
Peter

[David Schmidt]

On 5/3/2013 2:26 PM, Peter Dassow wrote:
> My goal is to connect a spare floppy disk (I already wrote it will be a
> TEAC FD55A) directly to that build in controller.
> That days I had a real Apple II, this can be done just by
> soldering/wiring the appropriate signal from the disk drive to the
> pins/a connector from the controller itself.

You have the pinout from Lewis' post, so it sounds like you're good to
go. The cable will be precisely the same for the IIe card (connecting
to the other end of the Y-cable) as it was for your IIe. If you got it
to work before - then you can get it to work again.

[Peter Dassow]

On 03.05.2013 20:31, David Schmidt wrote:
> On 5/3/2013 2:26 PM, Peter Dassow wrote:
>> My goal is to connect a spare floppy disk (I already wrote it will be a
>> TEAC FD55A) directly to that build in controller.

>> That days I had a real Apple II, this was done just by

>> soldering/wiring the appropriate signal from the disk drive to the
>> pins/a connector from the controller itself.
>
> You have the pinout from Lewis' post, so it sounds like you're good to
> go. The cable will be precisely the same for the IIe card (connecting
> to the other end of the Y-cable) as it was for your IIe. If you got it
> to work before - then you can get it to work again.

Unfortunately there is no description for each pin.
So making an own cable, one end for the 26-pin connector of the Apple II
card, other end for the floppy drive (34pin floppy connector) is not
possible if you just have a couple of numbers ( like here
http://www.vintagemacworld.com/lc_card_faq.html#C ) described.
I need the description of each pin of the 26-pin connector...

[David Schmidt]

As you learned from a similar post you created on c.s.a2 - the Disk II
signals are not at all compatible with the (essentially Shugart) FDC
standard, so it's irrelevant. I remain confused about what exactly you

[Peter Dassow]

On 05.05.2013 14:13, David Schmidt wrote:

> As you learned from a similar post you created on c.s.a2 - the Disk II
> signals are not at all compatible with the (essentially Shugart) FDC
> standard, so it's irrelevant. I remain confused about what exactly you
> were connecting when you said:
> "I had an Apple IIE for years, and I was able to connect always disk
> drives directly to the controller card."

I guess you never owned an Apple IIE.
I had not an original Apple II Disk Drive, instead some 3rd party,
"plain" disk drives with just flat cables. So I am 100% sure that Disk
Drives for an Apple IIE (or asian compatibles which were build a lot of)
must not be "special". I was not sure about the Drives with beige/grey
plastic cases with the 19pin connectors.
Please do not answer me again, because it wasn't helpful yet.

[Kevin Dady]

Peter Dassow wrote:
> I guess you never owned an Apple IIE.
> I had not an original Apple II Disk Drive, instead some 3rd party,
> "plain" disk drives with just flat cables. So I am 100% sure that Disk
> Drives for an Apple IIE (or asian compatibles which were build a lot of)
> must not be "special". I was not sure about the Drives with beige/grey
> plastic cases with the 19pin connectors.
> Please do not answer me again, because it wasn't helpful yet.
>

I dont see what owning a IIe has to do with anything, yes there were third
pary drives, no your not going to take a random MFM drive off the shelf,
make a magic cable and plug it into an apple disk controller and have it
work, heck they dont even work with the Macintosh.

Those third party drives, IF they are as you vaguely describe them from
memory would require either special control cards, or extra logic onboard
the drive itself for translation, which is not an easy task even today, I
doubt some knockoff is going to make a more expensive product and sell it
for less.

the thing is your interfacing to a IWM controller so you need to have a
compatible drive, doesnt matter if its apple or other

[Peter Dassow]

On 05.05.2013 20:12, Kevin Dady wrote:

>
> I dont see what owning a IIe has to do with anything, yes there were third
> pary drives, no your not going to take a random MFM drive off the shelf,
> make a magic cable and plug it into an apple disk controller and have it
> work, heck they dont even work with the Macintosh.

It was never my goal to connect a 5.25" drive to a normal Macintosh
(without the Apple IIe card). Silly.

>
> Those third party drives, IF they are as you vaguely describe them from
> memory would require either special control cards, or extra logic onboard
> the drive itself for translation, which is not an easy task even today, I
> doubt some knockoff is going to make a more expensive product and sell it
> for less.
>
> the thing is your interfacing to a IWM controller so you need to have a
> compatible drive, doesnt matter if its apple or other
>

What a miracle, even 19pin adapter exists, see
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321087044489
But you want not to believe I guess...

[David Schmidt]

That's not what you asked for... that will only adapt the 20-pin header
of a Disk II interface card to a 19-pin cable, suitable for plugging in
a (wait for it) Apple II Disk II drive with a 19-pin cable.

[Kevin Dady]

omg, you asked to hook a FD-55A a MFM drive to a apple II card, I dont care
what apple adaper you found its not going to work with a FD-55A my miricale
of wire, what you show is for APPLE DRIVES

[Don Bruder]

In article <5186abca$0$6629$9b4e...@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>,

That item doesn't do anything even close to what you're hoping for.

The drive you say you want to hook up is *TOTALLY* incompatible with a
Disk II drive, physically, electronically, and logically - *ABSOLUTELY
NOTHING* about them is compatible other than the fact that they both use
5.25" floppies.

It's not enough to just run wires from the right pins on the drive to
the right pins on the controller. (You can't - signals that the FD55
absolutely must have to operate at all simply don't exist on a Disk II
controller. Similarly, the FD55 has signals that the Disk II controller
doesn't have any idea what to do with)

Hell, I'm not even going to TRY to go into all the rest of the "why you
can't do what you're trying to do" factors involved. Look around a bit -
Notice how many (ZERO!) adapters there are/were on the market for what
you're trying to do? There's a reason - many of them, actually - why no
such thing was ever developed: It isn't practical. Not even for a group
of people notorious for hacking together all kinds of nifty things to
hang on an Apple II.

Give up. Break down and hunt up an actual Disk II (or compatible) drive
to attach to your rig. They're out there. Trying to build a cable to let
you hang an FD55 on a Disk II controller is about as doable as teaching
a fish to sing opera.

--
If the door is baroque don't be Haydn. Come around Bach and jiggle the Handel.