Classic Macintosh Fonts

[John D]

I have recently converted all of the old resource fork Macintosh fonts &
typefaces (ranging from the 1983 pre-release twiggy with
Cream/Gacha/System (early Chicago), etc. to OS 9/Rhapsody/OS X stuff)
into OS X-ready datafork bitmaps. Cloning this repo to ~/Library/Fonts
will give the user access to every typeface that Apple has shipped
and/or used in branding on all of their devices. Remove Charcoal_10.11
folder if you do not want your OS X 10.11 system font to turn into charcoal.

https://github.com/JohnDDuncanIII/ClassicMacintoshFonts

Any vintage Mac aficionados notice anything I'm missing (other than
stuff from the newton; I do not know how to extract fbit/sbits from the
newton rom)?

[Lewis]

In message <nb8h4l$am8$1...@dont-email.me>

John D <dunca...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have recently converted all of the old resource fork Macintosh fonts &
> typefaces (ranging from the 1983 pre-release twiggy with
> Cream/Gacha/System (early Chicago), etc. to OS 9/Rhapsody/OS X stuff)
> into OS X-ready datafork bitmaps. Cloning this repo to ~/Library/Fonts
> will give the user access to every typeface that Apple has shipped
> and/or used in branding on all of their devices. Remove Charcoal_10.11
> folder if you do not want your OS X 10.11 system font to turn into charcoal.

> https://github.com/JohnDDuncanIII/ClassicMacintoshFonts

Excellent!


--
>You are forgetting something: the Nazgul are immune to non-magical weapons.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

[D Finnigan]

John D wrote:
> I have recently converted all of the old resource fork Macintosh fonts &
> typefaces (ranging from the 1983 pre-release twiggy with
> Cream/Gacha/System (early Chicago), etc. to OS 9/Rhapsody/OS X stuff)
> into OS X-ready datafork bitmaps. Cloning this repo to ~/Library/Fonts
> will give the user access to every typeface that Apple has shipped
> and/or used in branding on all of their devices. Remove Charcoal_10.11
> folder if you do not want your OS X 10.11 system font to turn into
> charcoal.
>
> https://github.com/JohnDDuncanIII/ClassicMacintoshFonts

Nice work.

I know you know this, but for others, here is the source of the Twiggy
bitmap fonts:
http://macgui.com/news/article.php?t=413
At home with the Twiggy Mac - Mac GUI

--
]DF$
The Marina IP stack for Apple II--
http://marina.a2hq.com/

[Karsten Kruse]

Am 03.03.2016 um 06:15 schrieb John D:

> I have recently converted all of the old resource fork Macintosh fonts &
> typefaces (ranging from the 1983 pre-release twiggy with
> Cream/Gacha/System (early Chicago), etc. to OS 9/Rhapsody/OS X stuff)
> into OS X-ready datafork bitmaps.

Awesome work!

[David Kennedy]

Good Stuff!

--
David Kennedy

http://www.anindianinexile.com

[John D]

Thank you. I'd once again like to thank you for your work, as I would
never have completed this project without you.

- John D.

[André G. Isaak]

In article <nc5i6i$s6c$1...@dont-email.me>, John D <dunca...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Piggybacking]

I notice that this package includes the font 'Swan Song' and a second
version of Chicago which it attributes to System 0.97.

I've encountered these fonts on several 0.97 images floating around the
web, but never on any images from an official apple source (e.g.
Developer CDs etc.).

I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about the pedigree of these
fonts. My own suspicion is that they may have been a GUI hack which
someone performed, but which has managed to establish itself as one of
the very few versions of 0.97 which can still be found online. This is
supported by the fact that these faces have deficient character sets
compared to the other included fonts.

Note that the 'Chicago' font on such systems also contains a 10-pt
version of Chicago which is actually Chicago 12 pt, suggesting that
someone replaced the system font but preserved the old one by changing
its resource ID.

Any info would be appreciated since this is something I've long wondered
about.

Andre

--
To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail service.

[John D]

I cannot provide any evidence (other than circumstantial) of those two
being fakes or not, but I would not be surprised if they were in fact
GUI hacks. The image I removed them from was highly buggy. It was a
french System 0.97 disc (I think). It took hours of work to even get
them extracted. SwanSong was the only typeface that did not immediately
work when trying to import the modified resource fork file into
FontForge; I had to do some extra hacking to get it working at all (the
difference can be seen between the original [Originals/System 0.85
Fonts] and the modified [Originals/CairoSplices/Swan Song] versions that
I could import into fontforge).

I also noticed that 10-pt version of Chicago (which is actually the
standard 12-pt). I really have no idea. The design of both typefaces
seem similar to other work Susan Kare has done, but without contacting
her/Andy Hertzfeld I really don't know if we can have any resolution.

The only thing that makes me question whether this is a "hack" or not is
the fact that someone has one of the /original/ Macintosh 128k's, and
his machine has both of these fonts installed on disk (which makes me
question about the whole tampered-with hypothesis). I doubt this GUI
hack made it's way into France as well as the US.

http://facstaff.cbu.edu/~cyelving/Mac128.html

[André G. Isaak]

In article <nchr1b$mvn$1...@dont-email.me>, John D <dunca...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> André G. Isaak wrote:

<snippage>

Actually, here I tend to disagree -- the first thing which made me
suspicious of these two fonts when I first encountered them is the fact
that they (to my eye) don't appear nearly as well-designed as the other
Kare faces.

Unfortunately, I haven't had much luck in finding images of 0.97. All
copies I've managed to find online appear to stem from only three
original sources -- one being the french disk you mentioned, another
being a british version which has the two included fonts, but which also
has various system icons customized suggesting it's been modified
(unless the british system shipped with different icons), and a third
french version which doesn't contain either swan song or the modified
chicago.

While we're on the subject of ancient fonts, another one which I've
tried, unsuccessfully to get more information on is the Boston font
which is included on some Icelandic systems on the old developer CDs,
but which I've never found on any non-icelandic system disks. You
wouldn't happen to know anything about that one?

[D Finnigan]

John D wrote:
>
> I cannot provide any evidence (other than circumstantial) of those two
> being fakes or not, but I would not be surprised if they were in fact
> GUI hacks.
>

> ...

>
> The only thing that makes me question whether this is a "hack" or not is
> the fact that someone has one of the /original/ Macintosh 128k's, and
> his machine has both of these fonts installed on disk (which makes me
> question about the whole tampered-with hypothesis). I doubt this GUI
> hack made it's way into France as well as the US.
>
> http://facstaff.cbu.edu/~cyelving/Mac128.html
>

My opinion from when I first saw it several years ago is that it's a fake.
Someone saw the pre-release screenshots printed in a magazine (I've seen
them too; can't recall which magazine) and decided to recreate that system.

[John D]

Interesting. I have not heard anything about the 'Boston' font on any
Icelandic system disks. Do you have any screenshots or links to debug
images? I would love to further investigate that one..

FYI: I have been in contact with Helge Horch
(http://web.archive.org/web/20060901175940/http://home.netsurf.de/helge.horch/squeak/cream.html),
who provided some original 'PaloAlto' (Cream/Creamy) files (not from the
Macintosh, though). I have reason to believe that the 'Cream'
smalltalk-80 font was re-named to PaloAlto on some old (pre 0.85) German
system disks. This seems to back-up Rebecca G. Bettencourt's conjecture
that the 'Cream' font was also known as 'PaloAlto' at some point..

[John D]

Interesting. I remember seeing the 'Cream' and early 'Chicago' typefaces
being used in Andy Hertzfeld's interface mock ups
(http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Busy_Being_Born,_Part_2.txt),
but I'm not sure if I've seen those that you are describing.

Cream and that early version of Chicago (named System) were both found
on that extracted (official) Twiggy resource fork font file that you
provided on MacGUI...

[Andre G. Isaak]

In article <ncljhs$nqv$1...@dont-email.me>, John D <dunca...@gmail.com>
wrote:

The System font from Twiggy isn't the same as the modified Chicago found
on 0.97 images. The former is a somewhat blockier version of the
Macintosh Chicago whereas the latter is a bold script face.

[Andre G. Isaak]

In article <ncljcb$nbo$1...@dont-email.me>, John D <dunca...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Interesting. I have not heard anything about the 'Boston' font on any
> Icelandic system disks. Do you have any screenshots or links to debug
> images? I would love to further investigate that one..

I'll contact you directly about this since this isn't a binary group.

> FYI: I have been in contact with Helge Horch
> (http://web.archive.org/web/20060901175940/http://home.netsurf.de/helge.horch/
> squeak/cream.html),
> who provided some original 'PaloAlto' (Cream/Creamy) files (not from the
> Macintosh, though). I have reason to believe that the 'Cream'
> smalltalk-80 font was re-named to PaloAlto on some old (pre 0.85) German
> system disks. This seems to back-up Rebecca G. Bettencourt's conjecture
> that the 'Cream' font was also known as 'PaloAlto' at some point..

I also was under the impression that Cream and Palo Alto were the same
font, though I can't confirm which name was the original.

[John D]

Ah yes. There is also a different version of that 'Blockier' Chicago
(similar to the version found on the Twiggy) on the Sony pre-release
6.9/7.0 disks, but I cannot figure out how to extract it..

[John D]

Does anyone know how to extract the files out of the 'SonyTest
7.0.image' file? It is readable/runnable by the MinivMac 128k emulator,
but not convertable/extractable from within OS X.. (unar/Disk Utility
are not helpful)

[Andre G. Isaak]

In article <ncmhk4$37t$1...@dont-email.me>, John D <dunca...@gmail.com>

I've never actually seen the sony pre-release.

If you can't find it in the system file, though, it's quite possible
that what you're actually seeing is the chicago bitmap stored in ROM.
System 7-9 would use that if for whatever reason it couldn't find a
chicago font on the startup disk. IIRC until TrueType was introduced the
ROM-based versions of the required system fonts were always used, so if
you modified the versions on disk you wouldn't see the results unless
you added an appropriate ROv# (ROM override) resource.

Since TrueType was an optional install with system 6.0.7/8 and didn't
become standard until system 7, perhaps the prerelease was still acting
like system 6.x

André

[D Finnigan]

John D wrote:
> D Finnigan wrote:
>> John D wrote:
>>>
>>> I cannot provide any evidence (other than circumstantial) of those two
>>> being fakes or not, but I would not be surprised if they were in fact
>>> GUI hacks.
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> The only thing that makes me question whether this is a "hack" or not is
>>> the fact that someone has one of the /original/ Macintosh 128k's, and
>>> his machine has both of these fonts installed on disk (which makes me
>>> question about the whole tampered-with hypothesis). I doubt this GUI
>>> hack made it's way into France as well as the US.
>>>
>>> http://facstaff.cbu.edu/~cyelving/Mac128.html
>>>
>>
>> My opinion from when I first saw it several years ago is that it's a
>> fake.
>> Someone saw the pre-release screenshots printed in a magazine (I've seen
>> them too; can't recall which magazine) and decided to recreate that
>> system.
>>
> Interesting. I remember seeing the 'Cream' and early 'Chicago' typefaces
> being used in Andy Hertzfeld's interface mock ups
> (http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Busy_Being_Born,_Part_2.txt),
>

Yeah, this screenshot looks like what I was thinking of:
http://www.folklore.org/images/Macintosh/pattern_menu.jpg

[D Finnigan]

I have those two disk images but I haven't done anything more than just run
them in an emulator to click around.

A piece of the puzzle for extracting resources is to know that the resource
file format changed in September 1983. I've documented the changes here:
http://macgui.com/forums/software-sector/twiggy-mac-prototypes/t.1823_3/#209111

This means that you must write your own tools to read the resource fork and
interpret the data there, because I'm not aware of any resource editor
(e.g., ResEdit or REdit) that works with pre-release Macintosh resource
forks.

[John D]

Andre G. Isaak wrote:
> it's quite possible
> that what you're actually seeing is the chicago bitmap stored in ROM.

That's what I thought at first, but these files are all stored in the
resource fork of the System File (just like on the Twiggy image). The
Sony pre-release that I am referring to can be found on both the Mac-GUI
archive and WinWorldPC.

I just don't know how to actually extract the files on the .image file
itself (I have usually just been using sitpack and export-fl). Any ideas?

FYI: I have taken a screenshot of the difference between the Sony
'System,' Twiggy 'System' (early Chicago), and actual Chicago:
http://i.imgur.com/Y6wtQQI.png

The 'System' font on the Sony 7.0 pre-release looks like it contains
elements of both the release version of Chicago and the earlier Twiggy
version.

[D Finnigan]

Andre G. Isaak wrote:
>
> I've never actually seen the sony pre-release.

It's on macintosh garden.org
Search for SonyTest.

>
> If you can't find it in the system file, though, it's quite possible
> that what you're actually seeing is the chicago bitmap stored in ROM.
> System 7-9 would use that if for whatever reason it couldn't find a
> chicago font on the startup disk. IIRC until TrueType was introduced the
> ROM-based versions of the required system fonts were always used, so if
> you modified the versions on disk you wouldn't see the results unless
> you added an appropriate ROv# (ROM override) resource.
>

I don't think too many fonts were in ROM, if any. I seem to recall reading
something about Geneva 9 pt, but moreover, there is no type displayed on
screen until the Welcome to Macintosh dialog and we know that comes from the
System File so already quite a lot of the disk-based OS has been loaded into
RAM at that point.

[Andre G. Isaak]

In article <ncms1f$eni$1...@dont-email.me>, John D <dunca...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Ahh, my mistake. I saw 6.9/7.0 and thought this was a System 7
pre-release -- I've downloaded the images and will see if I can figure
something out.

Andre

[Andre G. Isaak]

In article <dog_cow-1...@macgui.com>,

That doesn't seem to be the case here (at least not on the versions
found on WinWorld -- I didn't look at the ones on MacGUI). I had no
problems extracting them using ResEdit and have mailed copies to John D.

[John D]

Fantastic! You are a life-saver!

- John D.

[Andre G. Isaak]

Thanks for drawing my attention to these sony test disks.

I'm confused about a few things though. Both sony disks use the
finalized resource fork format, so they were clearly released after the
Twiggy disks, but the finder versions make no sense:

TWIGGY: Finder 1.6 1983-08-08

SONY 6: Finder 4.4 1983-07-05

SONY 7: Finder 1.8 1983-10-04

Why would the sony 6.9 disk use a finder released prior to twiggy, and
why would they have updated a pre-twiggy finder to conform to the modern
resource format? Is it possible that this date is wrong?

Also, the Sony 7.0 disk includes reversi software dated 1984-06-18. Is
this software really supposed to be on this disk?

[John D]

Interesting to note that the Sony 6.9 suitcase has two fonts that were
not on the Twiggy disk: Reptile and PingPong. Reptile is the same as
System, which itself is a stranger early version of Chicago (slightly
different from the Twiggy version). PingPong is completely different
from anything else I've seen before. Reminds me a bit of Boston or
Toronto. I've added all of these conversions and originals to the github
page.