Perian still needed?

[Alan Browne]

I've had Perian on this Mac and prior further back than I can remember.

Question is ... is it needed to assure playback of (almost) all video
formats in QT 7?

--
She hummed to herself because she was an unrivaled botcher of lyrics.
-Nick (Gone Girl), Gillian Flynn.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2016-10-16, Alan Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
> I've had Perian on this Mac and prior further back than I can remember.
>
> Question is ... is it needed to assure playback of (almost) all video
> formats in QT 7?

I haven't had Perian installed in years. No problems here.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[Alan Browne]

On 2016-10-16 14:11, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2016-10-16, Alan Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> I've had Perian on this Mac and prior further back than I can remember.
>>
>> Question is ... is it needed to assure playback of (almost) all video
>> formats in QT 7?
>
> I haven't had Perian installed in years. No problems here.

Cool - one of the things I'm eliminating while trying to fix the
Finder-spin issue.

I play .avi, .mkv, .wmv, .mv4, .mov ... that's pretty much it. Oh, the
odd old .rm and other obscure ones that I've yet to convert.

[gtr]

On 2016-10-16 18:58:04 +0000, Alan Browne said:

> On 2016-10-16 14:11, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2016-10-16, Alan Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>> I've had Perian on this Mac and prior further back than I can remember.
>>>
>>> Question is ... is it needed to assure playback of (almost) all video
>>> formats in QT 7?
>>
>> I haven't had Perian installed in years. No problems here.
>
> Cool - one of the things I'm eliminating while trying to fix the
> Finder-spin issue.
>
> I play .avi, .mkv, .wmv, .mv4, .mov ... that's pretty much it. Oh, the
> odd old .rm and other obscure ones that I've yet to convert.

I have perian installed too, but only very rarely play videos with QT.
I note that it's website says the version they are working on may or
may not work with OS 10.8. So it's been abandoned for a good long
while.

I guess I'll yank it too and see what happens.

[Alan Browne]

On 2016-10-16 14:11, Jolly Roger wrote:

> On 2016-10-16, Alan Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> I've had Perian on this Mac and prior further back than I can remember.
>>
>> Question is ... is it needed to assure playback of (almost) all video
>> formats in QT 7?
>
> I haven't had Perian installed in years. No problems here.

Just de-installed it. Most formats work but not .avi. So I've
re-installed it.

[nospam]

In article <IPmdnTyzGfG0T57F...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:

> >> I've had Perian on this Mac and prior further back than I can remember.
> >>
> >> Question is ... is it needed to assure playback of (almost) all video
> >> formats in QT 7?
> >
> > I haven't had Perian installed in years. No problems here.
>
> Just de-installed it. Most formats work but not .avi. So I've
> re-installed it.

avi is a container, not a format, and they play perfectly fine without
perian.

[Alan Browne]

Aside from the pedantry over format/container, I just tried 3 different
.avi's and they do not play with QT or QT 7. They show as playing (time
increments) but there is no video and no sound.

They play in VLC player but I'm not much of a fan.

In some instances I get a pop up recommending additional software with a
button leading to an Apple page
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/resources/components.html?os=OSX&ctype=696d6463&csubtype=58564944
Which in turn is a "can't be found" page.

[nospam]

In article <HMqdncjyz8yARZ7F...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:

> >>>> I've had Perian on this Mac and prior further back than I can remember.
> >>>>
> >>>> Question is ... is it needed to assure playback of (almost) all video
> >>>> formats in QT 7?
> >>>
> >>> I haven't had Perian installed in years. No problems here.
> >>
> >> Just de-installed it. Most formats work but not .avi. So I've
> >> re-installed it.
> >
> > avi is a container, not a format, and they play perfectly fine without
> > perian.
>
> Aside from the pedantry over format/container,

it's not pedantry. the difference is very significant. an avi (as well
as quicktime) can contain media content in any of a variety of formats.

a standard quicktime install will play industry standard formats (mpeg,
etc.), including avi. however, avi often contains microsoft proprietary
formats, such as wmv/wma, in which case you need a codec.

> I just tried 3 different
> .avi's and they do not play with QT or QT 7. They show as playing (time
> increments) but there is no video and no sound.

check its properties and find out what codec is needed and go from
there.

if it's wmv, then flip4mac is the one to get.

> They play in VLC player but I'm not much of a fan.

nor am i.

> In some instances I get a pop up recommending additional software with a
> button leading to an Apple page

that's because it's looking for the appropriate codec.

[Alan Browne]

On 2016-10-16 15:48, nospam wrote:
> In article <HMqdncjyz8yARZ7F...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>>>>>> I've had Perian on this Mac and prior further back than I can remember.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Question is ... is it needed to assure playback of (almost) all video
>>>>>> formats in QT 7?
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't had Perian installed in years. No problems here.
>>>>
>>>> Just de-installed it. Most formats work but not .avi. So I've
>>>> re-installed it.
>>>
>>> avi is a container, not a format, and they play perfectly fine without
>>> perian.
>>
>> Aside from the pedantry over format/container,
>
> it's not pedantry. the difference is very significant. an avi (as well
> as quicktime) can contain media content in any of a variety of formats.

Most descriptions of AVI go something like: "... is a multimedia
container format introduced by Microsoft "

So calling one or the other isn't changing much except to pedants.

>
> a standard quicktime install will play industry standard formats (mpeg,
> etc.), including avi. however, avi often contains microsoft proprietary
> formats, such as wmv/wma, in which case you need a codec.

Which Perian seems to provide, one way or another.

>
>> I just tried 3 different
>> .avi's and they do not play with QT or QT 7. They show as playing (time
>> increments) but there is no video and no sound.
>
> check its properties and find out what codec is needed and go from
> there.

Or leave Perian installed. Handles it quite well.

>
> if it's wmv, then flip4mac is the one to get.
>
>> They play in VLC player but I'm not much of a fan.
>
> nor am i.
>
>> In some instances I get a pop up recommending additional software with a
>> button leading to an Apple page
>
> that's because it's looking for the appropriate codec.

No shit. However it finds nothing and a search on the Apple site shows
nothing for Quicktime 7. Perian stays for now.

[gtr]

On 2016-10-16 19:16:56 +0000, Alan Browne said:

> On 2016-10-16 14:11, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2016-10-16, Alan Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>> I've had Perian on this Mac and prior further back than I can remember.
>>>
>>> Question is ... is it needed to assure playback of (almost) all video
>>> formats in QT 7?
>>
>> I haven't had Perian installed in years. No problems here.
>
> Just de-installed it. Most formats work but not .avi. So I've
> re-installed it.

I de-installed it and removed it from the HD. I tested one AVI in
QuickTime Player (10.4) and it begins converting it immediately. I
tested it with QuickTime Player 7 and it squawks about needing
additional software, but then begins playing the audio in gurgling
tones. So: Neither works.

I might reconsider installing it anew, except I if I play .avi files it
is always with VLC. More frequently, usually with a full video of some
kind, the first thing I is convert it to mp4/mpv using MP4Tools before
toting it into iTunes. Or I convert it in the process of putting it
into iTunes using VideoDrive.

[Alan Browne]

I usually watch vids with QT7. I don't like VLC - but at least it does
play a lot of the ones QT won't play. Occasionally I'll handbrake a
video to mv4 if I think it's worth the time to do so. (And yes, If I
opened the .avi with QT (not QT7) then it attempted to convert).

In sum, Perian will stay for now.

[Alan Browne]

On 2016-10-16 16:27, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2016-10-16 16:22, gtr wrote:

>> I de-installed it and removed it from the HD. I tested one AVI in
>> QuickTime Player (10.4) and it begins converting it immediately. I
>> tested it with QuickTime Player 7 and it squawks about needing
>> additional software, but then begins playing the audio in gurgling
>> tones. So: Neither works.
>>
>> I might reconsider installing it anew, except I if I play .avi files it
>> is always with VLC. More frequently, usually with a full video of some
>> kind, the first thing I is convert it to mp4/mpv using MP4Tools before
>> toting it into iTunes. Or I convert it in the process of putting it into
>> iTunes using VideoDrive.
>
> I usually watch vids with QT7. I don't like VLC - but at least it does
> play a lot of the ones QT won't play. Occasionally I'll handbrake a
> video to mv4 if I think it's worth the time to do so. (And yes, If I

mp4 actually.

> opened the .avi with QT (not QT7) then it attempted to convert).

[nospam]

In article <-dadnVCAs9IyRp7F...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:

> >>>>>> I've had Perian on this Mac and prior further back than I can remember.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Question is ... is it needed to assure playback of (almost) all video
> >>>>>> formats in QT 7?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I haven't had Perian installed in years. No problems here.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just de-installed it. Most formats work but not .avi. So I've
> >>>> re-installed it.
> >>>
> >>> avi is a container, not a format, and they play perfectly fine without
> >>> perian.
> >>
> >> Aside from the pedantry over format/container,
> >
> > it's not pedantry. the difference is very significant. an avi (as well
> > as quicktime) can contain media content in any of a variety of formats.
>
> Most descriptions of AVI go something like: "... is a multimedia
> container format introduced by Microsoft "
>
> So calling one or the other isn't changing much except to pedants.

there's a very significant difference, which you clearly do not
understand. a container can contain any of a number of formats. it is
absolutely *not* pedantic by any stretch of the imagination.

> > a standard quicktime install will play industry standard formats (mpeg,
> > etc.), including avi. however, avi often contains microsoft proprietary
> > formats, such as wmv/wma, in which case you need a codec.
>
> Which Perian seems to provide, one way or another.

it can, but it's not as good as flip4mac.

> >> I just tried 3 different
> >> .avi's and they do not play with QT or QT 7. They show as playing (time
> >> increments) but there is no video and no sound.
> >
> > check its properties and find out what codec is needed and go from
> > there.
>
> Or leave Perian installed. Handles it quite well.

flip4mac is microsoft's official recommendation for wmv, given that
they co-developed it. perian is not.

[gtr]

On 2016-10-16 20:40:16 +0000, nospam said:

>>> a standard quicktime install will play industry standard formats (mpeg,
>>> etc.), including avi. however, avi often contains microsoft proprietary
>>> formats, such as wmv/wma, in which case you need a codec.
>>
>> Which Perian seems to provide, one way or another.
>
> it can, but it's not as good as flip4mac.

I have flip4mac installed and got the results as indicated upstream:
Neither QT worked. The current QuickTime Player began converting the
file. Maybe that was flip4mac at work.

[nospam]

In article <2016101613502076944-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:

>
>
> I have flip4mac installed and got the results as indicated upstream:
> Neither QT worked. The current QuickTime Player began converting the
> file. Maybe that was flip4mac at work.

it was, and there's a setting to convert on the fly or convert before
playing.

[Alan Browne]

On 2016-10-16 16:40, nospam wrote:
> In article <-dadnVCAs9IyRp7F...@giganews.com>, Alan
> Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>> I've had Perian on this Mac and prior further back than
>>>>>>>> I can remember.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Question is ... is it needed to assure playback of
>>>>>>>> (almost) all video formats in QT 7?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I haven't had Perian installed in years. No problems
>>>>>>> here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just de-installed it. Most formats work but not .avi. So
>>>>>> I've re-installed it.
>>>>>
>>>>> avi is a container, not a format, and they play perfectly
>>>>> fine without perian.
>>>>
>>>> Aside from the pedantry over format/container,
>>>
>>> it's not pedantry. the difference is very significant. an avi (as
>>> well as quicktime) can contain media content in any of a variety
>>> of formats.
>>
>> Most descriptions of AVI go something like: "... is a multimedia
>> container format introduced by Microsoft "
>>
>> So calling one or the other isn't changing much except to pedants.
>
> there's a very significant difference, which you clearly do not
> understand. a container can contain any of a number of formats. it
> is absolutely *not* pedantic by any stretch of the imagination.

Most certainly is - esp. in the current context.

>
>>> a standard quicktime install will play industry standard formats
>>> (mpeg, etc.), including avi. however, avi often contains
>>> microsoft proprietary formats, such as wmv/wma, in which case you
>>> need a codec.
>>
>> Which Perian seems to provide, one way or another.
>
> it can, but it's not as good as flip4mac.

"As good"? Perian is completely transparent and immediate. As I recall
flip4mac there would be a long conversion delay before the video would
play. Dumped a long time ago.

>>>> I just tried 3 different .avi's and they do not play with QT or
>>>> QT 7. They show as playing (time increments) but there is no
>>>> video and no sound.
>>>
>>> check its properties and find out what codec is needed and go
>>> from there.
>>
>> Or leave Perian installed. Handles it quite well.
>
> flip4mac is microsoft's official recommendation for wmv, given that
> they co-developed it. perian is not.

Any wmv files that I've retained have been converted to mp4. A few
remaining ones (quite old now) can be played in FLC if needed. A quick
check: largest .wmv I have is 27 MB; oldest dates from 2012.

[nospam]

In article <7K2dnUmhEYYYdZ7F...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:

> >>>>>>>> I've had Perian on this Mac and prior further back than
> >>>>>>>> I can remember.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Question is ... is it needed to assure playback of
> >>>>>>>> (almost) all video formats in QT 7?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I haven't had Perian installed in years. No problems
> >>>>>>> here.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Just de-installed it. Most formats work but not .avi. So
> >>>>>> I've re-installed it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> avi is a container, not a format, and they play perfectly
> >>>>> fine without perian.
> >>>>
> >>>> Aside from the pedantry over format/container,
> >>>
> >>> it's not pedantry. the difference is very significant. an avi (as
> >>> well as quicktime) can contain media content in any of a variety
> >>> of formats.
> >>
> >> Most descriptions of AVI go something like: "... is a multimedia
> >> container format introduced by Microsoft "
> >>
> >> So calling one or the other isn't changing much except to pedants.
> >
> > there's a very significant difference, which you clearly do not
> > understand. a container can contain any of a number of formats. it
> > is absolutely *not* pedantic by any stretch of the imagination.
>
> Most certainly is - esp. in the current context.

nope. you're wrong, and once again, refuse to admit it.

there is a *very* big difference between a container and the format
that is contained.

> >>> a standard quicktime install will play industry standard formats
> >>> (mpeg, etc.), including avi. however, avi often contains
> >>> microsoft proprietary formats, such as wmv/wma, in which case you
> >>> need a codec.
> >>
> >> Which Perian seems to provide, one way or another.
> >
> > it can, but it's not as good as flip4mac.
>
> "As good"? Perian is completely transparent and immediate. As I recall
> flip4mac there would be a long conversion delay before the video would
> play. Dumped a long time ago.

there's a setting to convert beforehand or convert on the fly, and with
the latter, there is no delay. in other words, user error.

[Alan Browne]

Nothing to admit. You're harping on an irrelevancy.

>
> there is a *very* big difference between a container and the format
> that is contained.

Which is still irrelevant to the current discussion and in any case, MS
define AVI as a "multimedia container format" so saying it either way is
little different except to pedants.

>
>>>>> a standard quicktime install will play industry standard formats
>>>>> (mpeg, etc.), including avi. however, avi often contains
>>>>> microsoft proprietary formats, such as wmv/wma, in which case you
>>>>> need a codec.
>>>>
>>>> Which Perian seems to provide, one way or another.
>>>
>>> it can, but it's not as good as flip4mac.
>>
>> "As good"? Perian is completely transparent and immediate. As I recall
>> flip4mac there would be a long conversion delay before the video would
>> play. Dumped a long time ago.
>
> there's a setting to convert beforehand or convert on the fly, and with
> the latter, there is no delay. in other words, user error.

Or the version I had back then (when MS "owned" the company that owned
F4M) did not have the on the fly capability.

Perian works fine.

[nospam]

In article <UP2dnSBPW47acp7F...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:

> > there is a *very* big difference between a container and the format
> > that is contained.
>
> Which is still irrelevant to the current discussion and in any case, MS
> define AVI as a "multimedia container format" so saying it either way is
> little different except to pedants.

it is not pedantic. you are wrong, you don't understand what it
actually means and refuse to learn.

nevertheless, for the benefit of other readers, avi and quicktime are
containers which can *contain* pretty much anything, including mp3,
aac, mpeg2, mpeg4, divx, wmv, wma and other *formats*.

an avi that contains mpeg 4 does not need any additional codecs to play
in quicktime, however, an avi that contains wmv does.

that is *not* a pedantic difference.

> >>
> >> "As good"? Perian is completely transparent and immediate. As I recall
> >> flip4mac there would be a long conversion delay before the video would
> >> play. Dumped a long time ago.
> >
> > there's a setting to convert beforehand or convert on the fly, and with
> > the latter, there is no delay. in other words, user error.
>
> Or the version I had back then (when MS "owned" the company that owned
> F4M) did not have the on the fly capability.

it did, you just had it set wrong.

[gtr]

On 2016-10-16 21:33:56 +0000, nospam said:

> nevertheless, for the benefit of other readers, avi and quicktime are
> containers which can *contain* pretty much anything, including mp3,
> aac, mpeg2, mpeg4, divx, wmv, wma and other *formats*.
>
> an avi that contains mpeg 4 does not need any additional codecs to play
> in quicktime, however, an avi that contains wmv does.

And how would we establish contents? With something like Media
Inspector and the like?

[Alan Browne]

On 2016-10-16 17:33, nospam wrote:
> In article <UP2dnSBPW47acp7F...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>>> there is a *very* big difference between a container and the format
>>> that is contained.
>>
>> Which is still irrelevant to the current discussion and in any case, MS
>> define AVI as a "multimedia container format" so saying it either way is
>> little different except to pedants.
>
> it is not pedantic. you are wrong, you don't understand what it
> actually means and refuse to learn.

Most of us know what a container is, but the distinction is not
generally relevant to most and in the current context, not at all. You
bringing it up to illustrate your general brilliance is nothing but that
and has impressed few if any.

>
> nevertheless, for the benefit of other readers, avi and quicktime are
> containers which can *contain* pretty much anything, including mp3,
> aac, mpeg2, mpeg4, divx, wmv, wma and other *formats*.
>
> an avi that contains mpeg 4 does not need any additional codecs to play
> in quicktime, however, an avi that contains wmv does.
>
> that is *not* a pedantic difference.

In the current context (Perian needed or not) it has not shed an iota of
relevance to the discussion or solution. In the end I can watch every
variant of avi on my machine instantly with Perian installed whereas w/o
Perian I could not.

The nature of avi (still described as a "multimedia container _format_)
being a container or a format is only of interest to the pedantic. If
this were a detailed rip-the-guts-out discussion of video/audio formats
then it would be relevant as a distinction here. But it is not at all.

>>>>
>>>> "As good"? Perian is completely transparent and immediate. As I recall
>>>> flip4mac there would be a long conversion delay before the video would
>>>> play. Dumped a long time ago.
>>>
>>> there's a setting to convert beforehand or convert on the fly, and with
>>> the latter, there is no delay. in other words, user error.
>>
>> Or the version I had back then (when MS "owned" the company that owned
>> F4M) did not have the on the fly capability.
>
> it did, you just had it set wrong.

Back then it was frustrating to use, so I looked at all the preferences
and there was nothing for real time decoding. It converted, then
played. Note that the copy of F4M that I had dated from my prior Mac
and even then it been on there for several years.

[Lewis]

In message <iJ6dnfCV1qo-XJ7F...@giganews.com>

Alan Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
> I've had Perian on this Mac and prior further back than I can remember.

Perian was abandoned many years ago.

--
The real American folksong is a rag -- a mental jag A rhythmic tone for
the chronic blues

[Lewis]

In message <IPmdnTyzGfG0T57F...@giganews.com>

Alan Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2016-10-16 14:11, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2016-10-16, Alan Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>> I've had Perian on this Mac and prior further back than I can remember.
>>>
>>> Question is ... is it needed to assure playback of (almost) all video
>>> formats in QT 7?
>>
>> I haven't had Perian installed in years. No problems here.

> Just de-installed it. Most formats work but not .avi. So I've
> re-installed it.

Bad move.



--
he'd moved like music, like someone dancing to a rhythm inside his head.
And his face for a moment in the moonlight was the skull of an angel...

[Lewis]

In message <HMqdncjyz8yARZ7F...@giganews.com>

Alan Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2016-10-16 15:26, nospam wrote:
>> In article <IPmdnTyzGfG0T57F...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
>> <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>>> I've had Perian on this Mac and prior further back than I can remember.
>>>>>
>>>>> Question is ... is it needed to assure playback of (almost) all video
>>>>> formats in QT 7?
>>>>
>>>> I haven't had Perian installed in years. No problems here.
>>>
>>> Just de-installed it. Most formats work but not .avi. So I've
>>> re-installed it.
>>
>> avi is a container, not a format, and they play perfectly fine without
>> perian.

> Aside from the pedantry over format/container,

It is not at all pedantry, they are two entirely unrelated issues.

It's a bit like saying "My Volvo won't work on I-80".


--
Eyes the shady night has shut/Cannot see the record cut And silence
sounds no worse than cheers/After earth has stopped the ears.

[Alan Browne]

On 2016-10-16 19:12, Lewis wrote:
> In message <IPmdnTyzGfG0T57F...@giganews.com>
> Alan Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2016-10-16 14:11, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> On 2016-10-16, Alan Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>> I've had Perian on this Mac and prior further back than I can remember.
>>>>
>>>> Question is ... is it needed to assure playback of (almost) all video
>>>> formats in QT 7?
>>>
>>> I haven't had Perian installed in years. No problems here.
>
>> Just de-installed it. Most formats work but not .avi. So I've
>> re-installed it.
>
> Bad move.

Hmm. Installed. Video's (except wmv) play.
Removed. AVI's don't play.

I'll keep it for now.

[Lewis]

In message <7K2dnUmhEYYYdZ7F...@giganews.com>

Nope. AVI is not a format. Period. Your ignorance (willfull, again) is
showing.

> Any wmv files that I've retained have been converted to mp4. A few
> remaining ones (quite old now) can be played in FLC if needed. A quick
> check: largest .wmv I have is 27 MB; oldest dates from 2012.

Many avis contain WMV files. Some containg MPG4. It is the contents of
the container that matter.



--
Naked blonde walks into a bar with a poodle under one arm, and two-foot
salami under the other. The bartender says, I guess you won't be needing
a drink. Naked lady says

[Alan Browne]

On 2016-10-16 19:11, Lewis wrote:
> In message <iJ6dnfCV1qo-XJ7F...@giganews.com>
> Alan Browne <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> I've had Perian on this Mac and prior further back than I can remember.
>
> Perian was abandoned many years ago.

Yep, why I was considering removing it. 2013 is the last "updated"
version I see on the web - and mine is even older.

[nospam]

In article <tJKdnUlT9-lUZ57F...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:

> >>> there is a *very* big difference between a container and the format
> >>> that is contained.
> >>
> >> Which is still irrelevant to the current discussion and in any case, MS
> >> define AVI as a "multimedia container format" so saying it either way is
> >> little different except to pedants.
> >
> > it is not pedantic. you are wrong, you don't understand what it
> > actually means and refuse to learn.
>
> Most of us know what a container is, but the distinction is not
> generally relevant to most and in the current context, not at all. You
> bringing it up to illustrate your general brilliance is nothing but that
> and has impressed few if any.

yes, most do know, except for you, who continues to argue.

> > nevertheless, for the benefit of other readers, avi and quicktime are
> > containers which can *contain* pretty much anything, including mp3,
> > aac, mpeg2, mpeg4, divx, wmv, wma and other *formats*.
> >
> > an avi that contains mpeg 4 does not need any additional codecs to play
> > in quicktime, however, an avi that contains wmv does.
> >
> > that is *not* a pedantic difference.
>
> In the current context (Perian needed or not) it has not shed an iota of
> relevance to the discussion or solution. In the end I can watch every
> variant of avi on my machine instantly with Perian installed whereas w/o
> Perian I could not.

actually you can't, because as i said, perian is not as good as
flip4mac, which has microsoft's blessing. perian reverse engineered
wmv/wma and while most will play, 'every variant of avi' certainly will

not.

> The nature of avi (still described as a "multimedia container _format_)
> being a container or a format is only of interest to the pedantic. If
> this were a detailed rip-the-guts-out discussion of video/audio formats
> then it would be relevant as a distinction here. But it is not at all.

container format simply means the format of the container file, how it
is laid out, not the format of the media within it. the distinction is
*very* clear, except to you.

as i said, an avi which contains mpeg4 does not need anything for
quicktime to play, while one that contains wmv does.

> >>>> "As good"? Perian is completely transparent and immediate. As I recall
> >>>> flip4mac there would be a long conversion delay before the video would
> >>>> play. Dumped a long time ago.
> >>>
> >>> there's a setting to convert beforehand or convert on the fly, and with
> >>> the latter, there is no delay. in other words, user error.
> >>
> >> Or the version I had back then (when MS "owned" the company that owned
> >> F4M) did not have the on the fly capability.
> >
> > it did, you just had it set wrong.
>
> Back then it was frustrating to use, so I looked at all the preferences
> and there was nothing for real time decoding. It converted, then
> played. Note that the copy of F4M that I had dated from my prior Mac
> and even then it been on there for several years.

i've been using flip4mac since before microsoft supported it (back when
microsoft had their own wmv codec) and i can't remember a single time
where that option was not there.

<http://www.macworks.biz/media/utilities/flip4mac/ss_02.gif>

user error, which you refuse to acknowledge.

[nospam]

open the movie in qt player and check its properties.

once you know what codecs are used, you can determine if you need to
install anything and if so, what to install.

[gtr]

On 2016-10-16 23:32:08 +0000, nospam said:

> i've been using flip4mac since before microsoft supported it (back when
> microsoft had their own wmv codec) and i can't remember a single time
> where that option was not there.
>
> <http://www.macworks.biz/media/utilities/flip4mac/ss_02.gif>

Mine doesn't look like that. I guess you upgraded to the pro or
"better" or something.

[nospam]

In article <2016101617490573416-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:

>
> >
> > <http://www.macworks.biz/media/utilities/flip4mac/ss_02.gif>
>
> Mine doesn't look like that. I guess you upgraded to the pro or
> "better" or something.

i don't know what version that screen shot is from.

[Alan Browne]

On 2016-10-16 19:32, nospam wrote:
> In article <tJKdnUlT9-lUZ57F...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>>>>> there is a *very* big difference between a container and the format
>>>>> that is contained.
>>>>
>>>> Which is still irrelevant to the current discussion and in any case, MS
>>>> define AVI as a "multimedia container format" so saying it either way is
>>>> little different except to pedants.
>>>
>>> it is not pedantic. you are wrong, you don't understand what it
>>> actually means and refuse to learn.
>>
>> Most of us know what a container is, but the distinction is not
>> generally relevant to most and in the current context, not at all. You
>> bringing it up to illustrate your general brilliance is nothing but that
>> and has impressed few if any.
>
> yes, most do know, except for you, who continues to argue.

All I said was the difference doesn't matter for the sake of the
subject. Had I not mentioned your pedantry over container/format the
fact that Perian lets me play avi's on my machine and its absence
prevent are really all that matters.

>>> nevertheless, for the benefit of other readers, avi and quicktime are
>>> containers which can *contain* pretty much anything, including mp3,
>>> aac, mpeg2, mpeg4, divx, wmv, wma and other *formats*.
>>>
>>> an avi that contains mpeg 4 does not need any additional codecs to play
>>> in quicktime, however, an avi that contains wmv does.
>>>
>>> that is *not* a pedantic difference.

Again, in the context of this thread, it doesn't make a difference at
all. Perian allows me to play avi's that won't play otherwise.

>>
>> In the current context (Perian needed or not) it has not shed an iota of
>> relevance to the discussion or solution. In the end I can watch every
>> variant of avi on my machine instantly with Perian installed whereas w/o
>> Perian I could not.
>
> actually you can't, because as i said, perian is not as good as
> flip4mac, which has microsoft's blessing. perian reverse engineered
> wmv/wma and while most will play, 'every variant of avi' certainly will
> not.

Every .avi on this machine plays perfectly or has been converted using
Handbrake to m4p.

>
>> The nature of avi (still described as a "multimedia container _format_)
>> being a container or a format is only of interest to the pedantic. If
>> this were a detailed rip-the-guts-out discussion of video/audio formats
>> then it would be relevant as a distinction here. But it is not at all.
>
> container format simply means the format of the container file, how it
> is laid out, not the format of the media within it. the distinction is
> *very* clear, except to you.
>
> as i said, an avi which contains mpeg4 does not need anything for
> quicktime to play, while one that contains wmv does.

Still irrelevant as I said: on my machines, with Perian: it works; w/o
it doesn't.

>
>>>>>> "As good"? Perian is completely transparent and immediate. As I recall
>>>>>> flip4mac there would be a long conversion delay before the video would
>>>>>> play. Dumped a long time ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> there's a setting to convert beforehand or convert on the fly, and with
>>>>> the latter, there is no delay. in other words, user error.
>>>>
>>>> Or the version I had back then (when MS "owned" the company that owned
>>>> F4M) did not have the on the fly capability.
>>>
>>> it did, you just had it set wrong.

See below.

>>
>> Back then it was frustrating to use, so I looked at all the preferences
>> and there was nothing for real time decoding. It converted, then
>> played. Note that the copy of F4M that I had dated from my prior Mac
>> and even then it been on there for several years.
>
> i've been using flip4mac since before microsoft supported it (back when
> microsoft had their own wmv codec) and i can't remember a single time
> where that option was not there.

So you say. I don't recall any such feature. And it is something I
would have looked for.

Was that a "pro" (paid for) feature?

>
> <http://www.macworks.biz/media/utilities/flip4mac/ss_02.gif>
>
> user error, which you refuse to acknowledge.

Could be. All I remember is always waiting on it. Or was it a "pro"
feature that I would have had to pay for?

[Alan Browne]

Indeed - so you can't know what version I had either.

[nospam]

In article <p6OdnSFW1PtY35jF...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

free.

[Alan Browne]

I still don't recall seeing such an option - and I would have looked. I
don't like waiting any more than the next person.

[JF Mezei]

On 2016-10-16 15:48, nospam wrote:

>> Aside from the pedantry over format/container,
>
> it's not pedantry. the difference is very significant. an avi (as well
> as quicktime) can contain media content in any of a variety of formats.

Finder, Quicklook and Quicktime treat files based on container (aka: can
they treat/handle/play this file or not).

Yeah, once they decide they can acess a certain type of container, then
they have to figure out if they support tyhe actual video format inside.

But container is generally more important as it provides the OS with
access to the video metadata which is relevant in a search.

>
> a standard quicktime install will play industry standard formats (mpeg,
> etc.),

but not the real industry standard .mkv

What does a standard search do ? Just go through the database that is
built/update in background, or does it actually go through file contents
to search for what you're searching ?

If it just goes through the database, does that database get locked when
it is being updated ? Could that also explain the spinning beach
ball/wheel of fortune ?

[MartinC]

Am 17.10.16 um 23:29 schrieb Alan Browne:

> Could be. All I remember is always waiting on it. Or was it a "pro"
> feature that I would have had to pay for?

If I remember it right then the actual "pro" feature has been the
ability to convert WMV files in QuickTime to a different format, while
the "free" version only allowed playback.

But I remember that even with the "pro" version QuickTime always showed
the progress bar running from 0 to 100 until playback started.

At some time later I discovered that VLC started playback immediately,
but occasionally with hiccups (especially when shifting the time
marker), while QuickTime did that without any glitches once it was fully
loaded.

I don't know if VLC actually used the F4M codec(s) as well back then or
got its own decoder.

[nospam]

In article <5805933a$0$30788$b1db1813$6557...@news.astraweb.com>, JF

Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> > a standard quicktime install will play industry standard formats (mpeg,
> > etc.),
>
> but not the real industry standard .mkv

mkv is another container, not a codec, and mainly used for pirated
content.

[nospam]

In article <nu4j3b$6vb$1...@dont-email.me>, MartinC

<nor...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>
> If I remember it right then the actual "pro" feature has been the
> ability to convert WMV files in QuickTime to a different format, while
> the "free" version only allowed playback.

correct. the free version is just playback.

> But I remember that even with the "pro" version QuickTime always showed
> the progress bar running from 0 to 100 until playback started.

unless you toggle the preference.

> At some time later I discovered that VLC started playback immediately,
> but occasionally with hiccups (especially when shifting the time
> marker), while QuickTime did that without any glitches once it was fully
> loaded.
>
> I don't know if VLC actually used the F4M codec(s) as well back then or
> got its own decoder.

vlc uses its own decoding which is not as good.

[JF Mezei]

On 2016-10-18 03:31, MartinC wrote:

> At some time later I discovered that VLC started playback immediately,
> but occasionally with hiccups (especially when shifting the time
> marker), while QuickTime did that without any glitches once it was fully
> loaded.

The advantage of Quicktime vs VLC is that VLC is very bad at framne by
frame in both directions, or "scrolling" backwards in movie, whereas
Quicktime is much better at it. This matter when you are trying to get a
specific shot.

(consider for instance the recent explosion of a SpaceX rocket, wanting
to do frame by frame in both direction to see the instant before and
after explosion makes the quictime much better than VLC for that.

However, to just watch a video, VLC is better as it starts playback
right away and often has more recent codecs. (isn't Quicktime more or
less deprecated ?)

[nospam]

In article <58068f2e$0$7903$b1db1813$e2fc...@news.astraweb.com>, JF

Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> (isn't Quicktime more or
> less deprecated ?)

no. quicktime 7 has been replaced with quicktime x.

[gtr]

On 2016-10-18 21:07:57 +0000, JF Mezei said:

> On 2016-10-18 03:31, MartinC wrote:
>
>> At some time later I discovered that VLC started playback immediately,
>> but occasionally with hiccups (especially when shifting the time
>> marker), while QuickTime did that without any glitches once it was fully
>> loaded.
>
> The advantage of Quicktime vs VLC is that VLC is very bad at framne by
> frame in both directions, or "scrolling" backwards in movie, whereas
> Quicktime is much better at it. This matter when you are trying to get a
> specific shot.

If you hover your mouse over the progress bar at the bottom and use
your scroll mouse you can step back 3 seconds at a time. I'm unsure if
that's modifiable.

To step forward by frame use the "e" key. These may well not address
your specific needs as well as you'd like, but VLC changes pretty
frequently. Let them know.