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Linus rant on HFS+
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JF Mezei
Jan 25, 2015, 8:46:21 PM1/25/15
to
Linus Torvalds: Apple's HFS+ is probably the worst file system ever
> http://www.itworld.com/article/2868393/linus-torvalds-apples-hfs-is-probably-the-worst-file-system-ever.html
His hate of HFS+ seems to be focus on its case insensitive nature.
Aside from Linus "slight" bias against Apple and HFS+, is there anything
that supports his rant that case insensitive makes for bad file system ?
The only thing I could think of is the overhead of having to store the
file name in a normalised fashion (for lookups) and the original
case-preserved filename which is displayed. (I assume this is how it
works).
Is this significant ?
Jolly Roger
Jan 25, 2015, 9:00:05 PM1/25/15
to
The author of the article asserts that case insensitivity "causes a lot
of problems", but I have yet to see these supposed problems in the
almost 30 years of using HFS in Mac OS. How has it "caused problems" for
you?
Useless troll. Good work.
--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.
JR
nospam
Jan 25, 2015, 9:13:23 PM1/25/15
to
In article <54c59c6b$0$25069$c3e8da3$92d0...@news.astraweb.com>, JF
> > http://www.itworld.com/article/2868393/linus-torvalds-apples-hfs-is-probably-
> Aside from Linus "slight" bias against Apple and HFS+, is there anything
> that supports his rant that case insensitive makes for bad file system ?
absolutely no support at all. he's trying to justify not using unicode.
> The only thing I could think of is the overhead of having to store the
> file name in a normalised fashion (for lookups) and the original
> case-preserved filename which is displayed. (I assume this is how it
> works).
>
> Is this significant ?
nope.
Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> Linus Torvalds: Apple's HFS+ is probably the worst file system ever
many people aren't all that impressed with linux or him for that matter.
> Linus Torvalds: Apple's HFS+ is probably the worst file system ever
> > http://www.itworld.com/article/2868393/linus-torvalds-apples-hfs-is-probably-
> > the-worst-file-system-ever.html
>
> His hate of HFS+ seems to be focus on its case insensitive nature.
that's a feature. case preserving is the correct way.
>
> His hate of HFS+ seems to be focus on its case insensitive nature.
> Aside from Linus "slight" bias against Apple and HFS+, is there anything
> that supports his rant that case insensitive makes for bad file system ?
> The only thing I could think of is the overhead of having to store the
> file name in a normalised fashion (for lookups) and the original
> case-preserved filename which is displayed. (I assume this is how it
> works).
>
> Is this significant ?
JF Mezei
Jan 26, 2015, 12:30:10 PM1/26/15
to
On 15-01-25 21:00, Jolly Roger wrote:
> Useless troll. Good work.
Do you ever have an intelligent conversation or are you only good at
insulting people ?
*I* did not make that rant, Linus Torvalds did. So why call me a troll ?
> Useless troll. Good work.
Do you ever have an intelligent conversation or are you only good at
insulting people ?
*I* did not make that rant, Linus Torvalds did. So why call me a troll ?
Jolly Roger
Jan 26, 2015, 12:40:21 PM1/26/15
to
On 2015-01-26, JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 15-01-25 21:00, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>> Useless troll. Good work.
>
> Do you ever have an intelligent conversation or are you only good at
> insulting people ?
I'll answer your question with another question: Do you ever have
>
>> Useless troll. Good work.
>
> Do you ever have an intelligent conversation or are you only good at
> insulting people ?
intelligent conversations where you are not doing what you can to shed
Apple in unfavorable light, or are you only good at posting FUD? So far,
very few, if any, of your posts are anything but obvious trolls and FUD.
> *I* did not make that rant, Linus Torvalds did. So why call me a troll ?
Apple is doomed over and over again. While Apple does occasionally do
good things, I can't recall the last time I have seen you post anything
but FUD about Apple.
Feel free to show me example posts of yours where you have said or asked
anything at all that was not on the FUD side of the scale.
I respect those who give balanced opinions. You just don't fit that
mold. You'll get more respect from me once you've earned it, and not a
moment sooner.
Jolly Roger
Jan 26, 2015, 12:45:35 PM1/26/15
to
On 2015-01-26, JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 15-01-25 21:00, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>
>> If you have to ask...
>>
>> The author of the article asserts that case insensitivity "causes a lot
>> of problems", but I have yet to see these supposed problems in the
>> almost 30 years of using HFS in Mac OS. How has it "caused problems" for
>> you?
>>
>>
>> The author of the article asserts that case insensitivity "causes a lot
>> of problems", but I have yet to see these supposed problems in the
>> almost 30 years of using HFS in Mac OS. How has it "caused problems" for
>> you?
>>
>> Useless troll. Good work.
>
> Do you ever have an intelligent conversation or are you only good at
> insulting people ?
>
> *I* did not make that rant, Linus Torvalds did. So why call me a troll ?
I notice you didn't bother to answer my question above, which is a
>
> Do you ever have an intelligent conversation or are you only good at
> insulting people ?
>
> *I* did not make that rant, Linus Torvalds did. So why call me a troll ?
perfect example of your complete unwillingness to say anything that is
not disparaging of Apple. The fact is case insensitivity does not cause
the overwhelming majority of Apple customers. You, being you, wouldn't
want to admit that in public because it would doesn't fit your modus
operandi. The entire purpose of your post is to cast bad light. If you
think what you are doing is not completely obvious to others, you're
sorely mistaken. The rest of the world ain't that dumb.
Jolly Roger
Jan 26, 2015, 12:47:06 PM1/26/15
to
On 2015-01-26, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2015-01-26, JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>> On 15-01-25 21:00, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>
>>> If you have to ask...
>>>
>>> The author of the article asserts that case insensitivity "causes a lot
>>> of problems", but I have yet to see these supposed problems in the
>>> almost 30 years of using HFS in Mac OS. How has it "caused problems" for
>>> you?
>>>
>>> Useless troll. Good work.
>>
>> Do you ever have an intelligent conversation or are you only good at
>> insulting people ?
>>
>> *I* did not make that rant, Linus Torvalds did. So why call me a troll ?
>
> I notice you didn't bother to answer my question above, which is a
> perfect example of your complete unwillingness to say anything that is
> not disparaging of Apple. The fact is case insensitivity does not cause
*problems for*
> On 2015-01-26, JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>> On 15-01-25 21:00, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>
>>> If you have to ask...
>>>
>>> The author of the article asserts that case insensitivity "causes a lot
>>> of problems", but I have yet to see these supposed problems in the
>>> almost 30 years of using HFS in Mac OS. How has it "caused problems" for
>>> you?
>>>
>>> Useless troll. Good work.
>>
>> Do you ever have an intelligent conversation or are you only good at
>> insulting people ?
>>
>> *I* did not make that rant, Linus Torvalds did. So why call me a troll ?
>
> I notice you didn't bother to answer my question above, which is a
> perfect example of your complete unwillingness to say anything that is
> not disparaging of Apple. The fact is case insensitivity does not cause
Jerry Bishop
Jan 26, 2015, 2:52:26 PM1/26/15
to
years ago when I ditched Linux as my main desktop OS (because I was
just fucking sick and tired of always having to fuck with
Linux/KDE/Gnome to get and/or keep it working right) and moved to OS X.
The transfer of my data from EFS to HFS+ had a couple burps cause I
had a couple folders and files that differed only by the case of the
letters in the names. Easily caught and easily corrected.
Really, my only problem with HFS+ now is that is seems pretty slow
compared to other file systems, especially on external USB media -- and
REALLY REALLY slow if you encrypt the external volume (but that is
actually understandable once you realize how USB drives are written to
differently than magnetic media).
So, a rant based on architecture and optimization of data throughput
might be useful to hear. A rant on case sensitivity not so much.
OK, going back into my corner to eat paste, now. (thanks for the vivid
imagery, Linus).
Jerry
Your Name
Jan 26, 2015, 3:27:10 PM1/26/15
to
In article <54c69af7$0$19857$c3e8da3$3388...@news.astraweb.com>, Jerry
often copy document files from my hard drive to a USB stick (mostly to
back them up), and at one point I did some tests. Using the Finder to
copy say 100MB+ in documents would take a few minutes, whereas using a
third-party sync software to do the same documents usually takes around
one minute. My guess is the Finder does some extra verification of the
copied file and updating the OS desktop files, while the sync sofware
doesn't bother.
Bishop <jerry....@nowhere.nohow.com> wrote:
>
> The only issue case-insensitivity ever caused for me was back several
> years ago when I ditched Linux as my main desktop OS (because I was
> just fucking sick and tired of always having to fuck with
> Linux/KDE/Gnome to get and/or keep it working right) and moved to OS X.
> The transfer of my data from EFS to HFS+ had a couple burps cause I
> had a couple folders and files that differed only by the case of the
> letters in the names. Easily caught and easily corrected.
>
> Really, my only problem with HFS+ now is that is seems pretty slow
> compared to other file systems, especially on external USB media -- and
> REALLY REALLY slow if you encrypt the external volume (but that is
> actually understandable once you realize how USB drives are written to
> differently than magnetic media).
>
> So, a rant based on architecture and optimization of data throughput
> might be useful to hear. A rant on case sensitivity not so much.
>
> OK, going back into my corner to eat paste, now. (thanks for the vivid
> imagery, Linus).
I don't know that HFS+ itself is slow, but the Finder certainly is. I
>
> The only issue case-insensitivity ever caused for me was back several
> years ago when I ditched Linux as my main desktop OS (because I was
> just fucking sick and tired of always having to fuck with
> Linux/KDE/Gnome to get and/or keep it working right) and moved to OS X.
> The transfer of my data from EFS to HFS+ had a couple burps cause I
> had a couple folders and files that differed only by the case of the
> letters in the names. Easily caught and easily corrected.
>
> Really, my only problem with HFS+ now is that is seems pretty slow
> compared to other file systems, especially on external USB media -- and
> REALLY REALLY slow if you encrypt the external volume (but that is
> actually understandable once you realize how USB drives are written to
> differently than magnetic media).
>
> So, a rant based on architecture and optimization of data throughput
> might be useful to hear. A rant on case sensitivity not so much.
>
> OK, going back into my corner to eat paste, now. (thanks for the vivid
> imagery, Linus).
often copy document files from my hard drive to a USB stick (mostly to
back them up), and at one point I did some tests. Using the Finder to
copy say 100MB+ in documents would take a few minutes, whereas using a
third-party sync software to do the same documents usually takes around
one minute. My guess is the Finder does some extra verification of the
copied file and updating the OS desktop files, while the sync sofware
doesn't bother.
Davoud
Jan 26, 2015, 3:36:52 PM1/26/15
to
JF Mezei said:
> > Linus Torvalds: Apple's HFS+ is probably the worst file system ever
> >> http://www.itworld.com/article/2868393/linus-torvalds-apples-hfs-is-probabl
> >> y-the-worst-file-system-ever.html
> > His hate of HFS+ seems to be focus on its case insensitive nature.
I'm trying to guess the percentage of Mac users who are bothered by
> > Linus Torvalds: Apple's HFS+ is probably the worst file system ever
> >> http://www.itworld.com/article/2868393/linus-torvalds-apples-hfs-is-probabl
> >> y-the-worst-file-system-ever.html
> > His hate of HFS+ seems to be focus on its case insensitive nature.
this. I suspect it's somewhere near zero. My advice to Torvalds is "If
you don't like the Mac OS, don't use it. You've got an OS named after
you and it's got the GIMP and a bunch of great server software. Revel
in that and ignore the moviemakers, the musicians, the artists."
Next problem?
--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.
usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
Electric Comet
Jan 26, 2015, 7:41:24 PM1/26/15
to
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 14:52:23 -0500
Jerry Bishop <jerry....@nowhere.nohow.com> wrote:
> Really, my only problem with HFS+ now is that is seems pretty slow
> compared to other file systems, especially on external USB media --
Is there a benchmark comparing HFS+ with other filesystems?
Jerry Bishop <jerry....@nowhere.nohow.com> wrote:
> Really, my only problem with HFS+ now is that is seems pretty slow
> compared to other file systems, especially on external USB media --
Kevin McMurtrie
Jan 27, 2015, 11:52:21 PM1/27/15
to
In article <cilld1...@mid.individual.net>,
researching, or even believing that MacOS bugs exist.
Back when Apple made servers, case insensitivity and numerous unicode
bugs were found to an actively exploited vulnerability. Most servers
have a blacklist for files that may contain sensitive data in a public
access area. For example, .htaccess, WEB-INF, .git, .svn, and
.DS_Store. Reading or writing those paths with a different case was all
it took to bypass blacklists. Even when blacklists were made case
insensitive, unicode bugs in HFS+ could be exploited with the same
outcome.
Modern server software will ask the OS to resolve a path and then
compare that with the original request to see if it has changed, but
that's not an exact solution. It's quite complex when you have a mix of
valid and invalid unicode transformations happening. Linus was recently
cursing about these exploits that took advantage of DOS support in
Windows and unicode bugs in HFS+ to bypass GIT's file blacklists:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1853266
--
I will not see posts from astraweb, theremailer, dizum, or google
because they host Usenet flooders.
Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2015-01-26, JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> >
> > Linus Torvalds: Apple's HFS+ is probably the worst file system ever
> >
> >> http://www.itworld.com/article/2868393/linus-torvalds-apples-hfs-is-probabl
> >> y-the-worst-file-system-ever.html
> >
> >
> > His hate of HFS+ seems to be focus on its case insensitive nature.
> >
> > Aside from Linus "slight" bias against Apple and HFS+, is there anything
> > that supports his rant that case insensitive makes for bad file system ?
> >
> > The only thing I could think of is the overhead of having to store the
> > file name in a normalised fashion (for lookups) and the original
> > case-preserved filename which is displayed. (I assume this is how it
> > works).
> >
> > Is this significant ?
>
> If you have to ask...
>
> The author of the article asserts that case insensitivity "causes a lot
> of problems", but I have yet to see these supposed problems in the
> almost 30 years of using HFS in Mac OS. How has it "caused problems" for
> you?
>
> Useless troll. Good work.
You don't see any problems because you're totally incapable of
> On 2015-01-26, JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> >
> > Linus Torvalds: Apple's HFS+ is probably the worst file system ever
> >
> >> http://www.itworld.com/article/2868393/linus-torvalds-apples-hfs-is-probabl
> >> y-the-worst-file-system-ever.html
> >
> >
> > His hate of HFS+ seems to be focus on its case insensitive nature.
> >
> > Aside from Linus "slight" bias against Apple and HFS+, is there anything
> > that supports his rant that case insensitive makes for bad file system ?
> >
> > The only thing I could think of is the overhead of having to store the
> > file name in a normalised fashion (for lookups) and the original
> > case-preserved filename which is displayed. (I assume this is how it
> > works).
> >
> > Is this significant ?
>
> If you have to ask...
>
> The author of the article asserts that case insensitivity "causes a lot
> of problems", but I have yet to see these supposed problems in the
> almost 30 years of using HFS in Mac OS. How has it "caused problems" for
> you?
>
> Useless troll. Good work.
researching, or even believing that MacOS bugs exist.
Back when Apple made servers, case insensitivity and numerous unicode
bugs were found to an actively exploited vulnerability. Most servers
have a blacklist for files that may contain sensitive data in a public
access area. For example, .htaccess, WEB-INF, .git, .svn, and
.DS_Store. Reading or writing those paths with a different case was all
it took to bypass blacklists. Even when blacklists were made case
insensitive, unicode bugs in HFS+ could be exploited with the same
outcome.
Modern server software will ask the OS to resolve a path and then
compare that with the original request to see if it has changed, but
that's not an exact solution. It's quite complex when you have a mix of
valid and invalid unicode transformations happening. Linus was recently
cursing about these exploits that took advantage of DOS support in
Windows and unicode bugs in HFS+ to bypass GIT's file blacklists:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1853266
--
I will not see posts from astraweb, theremailer, dizum, or google
because they host Usenet flooders.
Electric Comet
Jan 28, 2015, 12:14:33 AM1/28/15
to
On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 20:52:18 -0800
Kevin McMurtrie <mcmu...@pixelmemory.us> wrote:
> You don't see any problems because you're totally incapable of
> researching, or even believing that MacOS bugs exist.
I dunno "Jolly Roger" just posted the info about yoazemite 10.10.2
Kevin McMurtrie <mcmu...@pixelmemory.us> wrote:
> You don't see any problems because you're totally incapable of
> researching, or even believing that MacOS bugs exist.
and the long list of CVEs. (wow just now apple are fixing the bash
vulns)
>
> Back when Apple made servers, case insensitivity and numerous unicode
> bugs were found to an actively exploited vulnerability. Most servers
> have a blacklist for files that may contain sensitive data in a
> public access area. For example, .htaccess, WEB-INF, .git, .svn, and
> .DS_Store. Reading or writing those paths with a different case was
> all it took to bypass blacklists. Even when blacklists were made
> case insensitive, unicode bugs in HFS+ could be exploited with the
> same outcome.
you'd think with 18 Billion profit apple could spend a few to fix some
>
>
> Modern server software will ask the OS to resolve a path and then
> compare that with the original request to see if it has changed, but
> that's not an exact solution. It's quite complex when you have a mix
> of valid and invalid unicode transformations happening. Linus was
> recently cursing about these exploits that took advantage of DOS
> support in Windows and unicode bugs in HFS+ to bypass GIT's file
> blacklists:
deserves it the most
end-user just trying to get stuff done and the vendor's just trying
to pay their "shareholders" or sail two yachts or wtf
>
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1853266
>
> --
> I will not see posts from astraweb, theremailer, dizum, or google
> because they host Usenet flooders.
yes I had a hiatus from usenet
lately I've noticed lots of "gmail" accounts replying to 15-20 year
old usenet posts. then not long after spam from hits
Alan Baker
Jan 28, 2015, 1:39:58 AM1/28/15
to
case insensitive file system, not of the filesytem itself.
Jolly Roger
Jan 28, 2015, 9:59:29 AM1/28/15
to
On 2015-01-28, Kevin McMurtrie <mcmu...@pixelmemory.us> wrote:
> In article <cilld1...@mid.individual.net>,
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2015-01-26, JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>> >
>> > Linus Torvalds: Apple's HFS+ is probably the worst file system ever
>> >
>> >> http://www.itworld.com/article/2868393/linus-torvalds-apples-hfs-is-probabl
>> >> y-the-worst-file-system-ever.html
>> >
>> >
>> > His hate of HFS+ seems to be focus on its case insensitive nature.
>> >
>> > Aside from Linus "slight" bias against Apple and HFS+, is there anything
>> > that supports his rant that case insensitive makes for bad file system ?
>> >
>> > The only thing I could think of is the overhead of having to store the
>> > file name in a normalised fashion (for lookups) and the original
>> > case-preserved filename which is displayed. (I assume this is how it
>> > works).
>> >
>> > Is this significant ?
>>
>> If you have to ask...
>>
>> The author of the article asserts that case insensitivity "causes a lot
>> of problems", but I have yet to see these supposed problems in the
>> almost 30 years of using HFS in Mac OS. How has it "caused problems" for
>> you?
>>
>> Useless troll. Good work.
>
> You don't see any problems because you're totally incapable of
> researching, or even believing that MacOS bugs exist.
Anyone who pays attention here knows that to be false, since I often
> In article <cilld1...@mid.individual.net>,
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2015-01-26, JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>> >
>> > Linus Torvalds: Apple's HFS+ is probably the worst file system ever
>> >
>> >> http://www.itworld.com/article/2868393/linus-torvalds-apples-hfs-is-probabl
>> >> y-the-worst-file-system-ever.html
>> >
>> >
>> > His hate of HFS+ seems to be focus on its case insensitive nature.
>> >
>> > Aside from Linus "slight" bias against Apple and HFS+, is there anything
>> > that supports his rant that case insensitive makes for bad file system ?
>> >
>> > The only thing I could think of is the overhead of having to store the
>> > file name in a normalised fashion (for lookups) and the original
>> > case-preserved filename which is displayed. (I assume this is how it
>> > works).
>> >
>> > Is this significant ?
>>
>> If you have to ask...
>>
>> The author of the article asserts that case insensitivity "causes a lot
>> of problems", but I have yet to see these supposed problems in the
>> almost 30 years of using HFS in Mac OS. How has it "caused problems" for
>> you?
>>
>> Useless troll. Good work.
>
> You don't see any problems because you're totally incapable of
> researching, or even believing that MacOS bugs exist.
discuss and post about Mac OS bugs in this very news group. So you are
trolling as well. You probably have your panties in a twist because I
call you out on your laborious and repetitive hyperbolic HFS rants.
That you feel the need to lie in retribution is just lame.
> Back when Apple made servers, case insensitivity and numerous unicode
> bugs were found to an actively exploited vulnerability. Most servers
> have a blacklist for files that may contain sensitive data in a public
> access area. For example, .htaccess, WEB-INF, .git, .svn, and
> .DS_Store. Reading or writing those paths with a different case was all
> it took to bypass blacklists. Even when blacklists were made case
> insensitive, unicode bugs in HFS+ could be exploited with the same
> outcome.
>
>
> Modern server software will ask the OS to resolve a path and then
> compare that with the original request to see if it has changed, but
> that's not an exact solution. It's quite complex when you have a mix of
> valid and invalid unicode transformations happening. Linus was recently
> cursing about these exploits that took advantage of DOS support in
> Windows and unicode bugs in HFS+ to bypass GIT's file blacklists:
>
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1853266
that all file systems are case sensitive by storing/accessing a file of
the same name (where the only difference is case) in the same directory.
This is obviously a bad idea on case insensitive file systems. This is
clearly a bug in Git
- not Mac OS X.
The third issue suggests that HFS could apparently handle Unicode
better. I haven't done research into it, and am perfectly willing to
accept that this may be the case.
Wait a minute, didn't you just say I was *incapable* of believing bugs
exist in Mac OS (I assume you also mean HFS)? Am I to take it I you will
now likewise be *incapable* of believing that I just believed that HFS
Unicode support could be buggy? Lame.
Jolly Roger
Jan 28, 2015, 10:02:03 AM1/28/15
to
On 2015-01-28, Electric Comet <electri...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 20:52:18 -0800
> Kevin McMurtrie <mcmu...@pixelmemory.us> wrote:
>
>> You don't see any problems because you're totally incapable of
>> researching, or even believing that MacOS bugs exist.
>
> I dunno "Jolly Roger" just posted the info about yoazemite 10.10.2
> and the long list of CVEs. (wow just now apple are fixing the bash
> vulns)
He's trolling, and lying about me. Lame.
> On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 20:52:18 -0800
> Kevin McMurtrie <mcmu...@pixelmemory.us> wrote:
>
>> You don't see any problems because you're totally incapable of
>> researching, or even believing that MacOS bugs exist.
>
> I dunno "Jolly Roger" just posted the info about yoazemite 10.10.2
> and the long list of CVEs. (wow just now apple are fixing the bash
> vulns)
>> Back when Apple made servers, case insensitivity and numerous unicode
>> bugs were found to an actively exploited vulnerability. Most servers
>> have a blacklist for files that may contain sensitive data in a
>> public access area. For example, .htaccess, WEB-INF, .git, .svn, and
>> .DS_Store. Reading or writing those paths with a different case was
>> all it took to bypass blacklists. Even when blacklists were made
>> case insensitive, unicode bugs in HFS+ could be exploited with the
>> same outcome.
>
> what a mess, will it only get worse
time.
> you'd think with 18 Billion profit apple could spend a few to fix some
effected by this issue? I doubt many.
Davoud
Jan 28, 2015, 12:21:09 PM1/28/15
to
Kevin McMurtrie:
OS, i.e., my wife and I are not seeing them in our daily use of our six
Macs, then for us I can only conclude that there are no serious issues
with the Mac OS. YMMV, of course.
> You don't see any problems because you're totally incapable of
> researching, or even believing that MacOS bugs exist.
If I have to dig into Google to learn that there are bugs in the Mac
> researching, or even believing that MacOS bugs exist.
OS, i.e., my wife and I are not seeing them in our daily use of our six
Macs, then for us I can only conclude that there are no serious issues
with the Mac OS. YMMV, of course.
Jolly Roger
Jan 28, 2015, 12:32:25 PM1/28/15
to
On 2015-01-28, Davoud <st...@sky.net> wrote:
> Kevin McMurtrie:
>> You don't see any problems because you're totally incapable of
>> researching, or even believing that MacOS bugs exist.
>
> If I have to dig into Google to learn that there are bugs in the Mac
> OS, i.e., my wife and I are not seeing them in our daily use of our six
> Macs, then for us I can only conclude that there are no serious issues
> with the Mac OS. YMMV, of course.
Kevin has had a huge chip on his shoulder regarding HFS for many years.
> Kevin McMurtrie:
>> You don't see any problems because you're totally incapable of
>> researching, or even believing that MacOS bugs exist.
>
> If I have to dig into Google to learn that there are bugs in the Mac
> OS, i.e., my wife and I are not seeing them in our daily use of our six
> Macs, then for us I can only conclude that there are no serious issues
> with the Mac OS. YMMV, of course.
Electric Comet
Jan 28, 2015, 4:49:15 PM1/28/15
to
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 15:36:47 -0500
Davoud <st...@sky.net> wrote:
> I'm trying to guess the percentage of Mac users who are bothered by
> this. I suspect it's somewhere near zero. My advice to Torvalds is "If
I wonder how many.
Davoud <st...@sky.net> wrote:
> I'm trying to guess the percentage of Mac users who are bothered by
> this. I suspect it's somewhere near zero. My advice to Torvalds is "If
> you don't like the Mac OS, don't use it. You've got an OS named after
> you and it's got the GIMP and a bunch of great server software. Revel
> in that and ignore the moviemakers, the musicians, the artists."
Alan Baker
Jan 28, 2015, 4:52:59 PM1/28/15
to
On 2015-01-28 21:45:56 +0000, Electric Comet said:
> On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 15:36:47 -0500
> Davoud <st...@sky.net> wrote:
>
>
>> I'm trying to guess the percentage of Mac users who are bothered by
>> this. I suspect it's somewhere near zero. My advice to Torvalds is "If
>
> I wonder how many.
Eight. Including Torvalds himself, there are 8 people who are bothered by this.
> On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 15:36:47 -0500
> Davoud <st...@sky.net> wrote:
>
>
>> I'm trying to guess the percentage of Mac users who are bothered by
>> this. I suspect it's somewhere near zero. My advice to Torvalds is "If
>
> I wonder how many.
You can trust me on this...
Message has been deleted
Electric Comet
Jan 28, 2015, 9:56:37 PM1/28/15
to
On 28 Jan 2015 22:14:19 GMT
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> No he doesn't. He runs Linux on a Macbook Air.
I read an article a while ago and he seemed to allude to using it.
Something like "at some point everyone just gets tired of configuring
their environment so why bother" not an exact quote and maybe I
read too much into it but it sounded like he was saying I just
use macosx because I don't want hassle with all the config
Maybe a dual-boot or vm
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> No he doesn't. He runs Linux on a Macbook Air.
I read an article a while ago and he seemed to allude to using it.
Something like "at some point everyone just gets tired of configuring
their environment so why bother" not an exact quote and maybe I
read too much into it but it sounded like he was saying I just
use macosx because I don't want hassle with all the config
Maybe a dual-boot or vm
Joanna Shuttleworth
Jan 29, 2015, 3:14:33 AM1/29/15
to
On 2015-01-28, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
[...]
A non-zero number are affected though.
[...]
> It boils down to business decisions. How many Mac users do you think are
> effected by this issue? I doubt many.
None.
> effected by this issue? I doubt many.
A non-zero number are affected though.
Message has been deleted
Jolly Roger
Jan 29, 2015, 10:17:44 AM1/29/15
to
Electric Comet
Feb 20, 2015, 2:58:26 PM2/20/15
to
On 29 Jan 2015 10:47:36 GMT
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> Sufficiently so that I bought one. Although I am hovering on the
> threshold between between keeping it on MacOS for the automatic
> updates & having someone else do the support and ditching MacOS for
> Linux because I prefer it.
Are there firmware updates you would miss going to linux?
Why not run macos in a vm
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> Sufficiently so that I bought one. Although I am hovering on the
> threshold between between keeping it on MacOS for the automatic
> updates & having someone else do the support and ditching MacOS for
> Linux because I prefer it.
Are there firmware updates you would miss going to linux?
Why not run macos in a vm
Message has been deleted
Electric Comet
Feb 21, 2015, 12:46:26 PM2/21/15
to
On 20 Feb 2015 22:37:42 GMT
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> Dunno.
seem to recall that firmware updates came via the software update
mechanism but also recall that those can be downloaded by themselves
but not sure if they can be applied inside a vm
> The lack of physical install media (yes, I know I can create them)
> puts me off.
ok thought maybe there was some other reason that macos can't be run
inside a vm
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> Dunno.
seem to recall that firmware updates came via the software update
mechanism but also recall that those can be downloaded by themselves
but not sure if they can be applied inside a vm
> The lack of physical install media (yes, I know I can create them)
> puts me off.
ok thought maybe there was some other reason that macos can't be run
inside a vm
Message has been deleted
android
Feb 21, 2015, 11:39:44 PM2/21/15
to
In article <mc83jk$orj$1...@dont-email.me>,
You get a Mac because you can install software on it that's not
available for Linux... Unless you're a dev that just want to test basic
functionality of a port, running OSX natively is the way to go
considering the blow to performance a that run virtual is.
--
teleportation kills
available for Linux... Unless you're a dev that just want to test basic
functionality of a port, running OSX natively is the way to go
considering the blow to performance a that run virtual is.
--
teleportation kills
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Paul Sture
Feb 22, 2015, 5:47:56 AM2/22/15
to
On 2015-02-22, Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> In article <cksi2o...@mid.individual.net>, Huge
><Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>Again, dunno. I am a newbie so far as Macs go.
>
> Licensing issues, AIUI, preclude you from running earlier OS X versions
> in a VM unless they are the server version (such as Snow Leopard
> Server). Since later versions apparently are somehow server versions
> anyway, again AIUI that limitation doesn't apply to e.g. Yosemite.
> BICBW.
Yep. From IIRC Mountain Lion onwards the Server functionality comes as
an app you can download rather than as a completely separate build of
the OS. I've got Mountain Lion plus Server.app installed in a VM, and
Yosemite too but without the server component. I looked up the
licensing details at the time I did it and was happy that I was abiding
by it. IIRC there's something like a limit of 2 VMs running OS X per
Mac, and I've got 2 Macs to go at if that changes in a future release.
--
1972 - IBM begins development on its last tape drive (3480) ever because
of the declining cost of disk drives.
> In article <cksi2o...@mid.individual.net>, Huge
><Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
> Licensing issues, AIUI, preclude you from running earlier OS X versions
> in a VM unless they are the server version (such as Snow Leopard
> Server). Since later versions apparently are somehow server versions
> anyway, again AIUI that limitation doesn't apply to e.g. Yosemite.
> BICBW.
Yep. From IIRC Mountain Lion onwards the Server functionality comes as
an app you can download rather than as a completely separate build of
the OS. I've got Mountain Lion plus Server.app installed in a VM, and
Yosemite too but without the server component. I looked up the
licensing details at the time I did it and was happy that I was abiding
by it. IIRC there's something like a limit of 2 VMs running OS X per
Mac, and I've got 2 Macs to go at if that changes in a future release.
--
1972 - IBM begins development on its last tape drive (3480) ever because
of the declining cost of disk drives.
android
Feb 22, 2015, 9:05:05 AM2/22/15
to
In article <cktnuu...@mid.individual.net>,
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2015-02-22, android <he...@there.was> wrote:
> > In article <mc83jk$orj$1...@dont-email.me>,
> > Electric Comet <electri...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> On 29 Jan 2015 10:47:36 GMT
> >> Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Sufficiently so that I bought one. Although I am hovering on the
> >> > threshold between between keeping it on MacOS for the automatic
> >> > updates & having someone else do the support and ditching MacOS for
> >> > Linux because I prefer it.
> >>
> >> Are there firmware updates you would miss going to linux?
> >> Why not run macos in a vm
> >>
> > You get a Mac because you can install software on it that's not
> > available for Linux...
>
> Actually, I got an Air because I needed a laptop and I loved the hardware.
> The O/S is OK, I guess, but only because there's an 'almost-Unix' hiding
> underneath. If it wasn't for that, it would have had Linux on it like a shot.
No need to tell you that you can get a Windows portable for less than
USD 180...
http://promotions.newegg.com/nepro/14-2487/index.html#1
--
teleportation kills
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2015-02-22, android <he...@there.was> wrote:
> > In article <mc83jk$orj$1...@dont-email.me>,
> > Electric Comet <electri...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> On 29 Jan 2015 10:47:36 GMT
> >> Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Sufficiently so that I bought one. Although I am hovering on the
> >> > threshold between between keeping it on MacOS for the automatic
> >> > updates & having someone else do the support and ditching MacOS for
> >> > Linux because I prefer it.
> >>
> >> Are there firmware updates you would miss going to linux?
> >> Why not run macos in a vm
> >>
> > You get a Mac because you can install software on it that's not
> > available for Linux...
>
> The O/S is OK, I guess, but only because there's an 'almost-Unix' hiding
> underneath. If it wasn't for that, it would have had Linux on it like a shot.
No need to tell you that you can get a Windows portable for less than
USD 180...
http://promotions.newegg.com/nepro/14-2487/index.html#1
--
teleportation kills
nospam
Feb 22, 2015, 11:11:19 AM2/22/15
to
> > You get a Mac because you can install software on it that's not
> > available for Linux...
>
> > available for Linux...
>
> Actually, I got an Air because I needed a laptop and I loved the hardware.
> The O/S is OK, I guess, but only because there's an 'almost-Unix' hiding
> underneath. If it wasn't for that, it would have had Linux on it like a shot.
os x is not an 'almost unix'. it's certified unix.
> The O/S is OK, I guess, but only because there's an 'almost-Unix' hiding
> underneath. If it wasn't for that, it would have had Linux on it like a shot.
linux is an 'almost unix'.
Jolly Roger
Feb 22, 2015, 11:22:45 AM2/22/15
to
On 2015-02-22, Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2015-02-22, android <he...@there.was> wrote:
> On 2015-02-22, android <he...@there.was> wrote:
>> In article <mc83jk$orj$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Electric Comet <electri...@mail.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 29 Jan 2015 10:47:36 GMT
>>> Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Sufficiently so that I bought one. Although I am hovering on the
>>> > threshold between between keeping it on MacOS for the automatic
>>> > updates & having someone else do the support and ditching MacOS for
>>> > Linux because I prefer it.
>>>
>>> Are there firmware updates you would miss going to linux?
>>> Why not run macos in a vm
>>>
>> You get a Mac because you can install software on it that's not
>> available for Linux...
>
>> Electric Comet <electri...@mail.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 29 Jan 2015 10:47:36 GMT
>>> Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Sufficiently so that I bought one. Although I am hovering on the
>>> > threshold between between keeping it on MacOS for the automatic
>>> > updates & having someone else do the support and ditching MacOS for
>>> > Linux because I prefer it.
>>>
>>> Are there firmware updates you would miss going to linux?
>>> Why not run macos in a vm
>>>
>> You get a Mac because you can install software on it that's not
>> available for Linux...
>
> Actually, I got an Air because I needed a laptop and I loved the hardware.
> The O/S is OK, I guess, but only because there's an 'almost-Unix' hiding
> underneath.
No, Mac OS X is Unix. Period. You have a lot to learn.
> The O/S is OK, I guess, but only because there's an 'almost-Unix' hiding
> underneath.
Jolly Roger
Feb 22, 2015, 11:35:02 AM2/22/15
to
On 2015-02-22, Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
>
> Licensing issues, AIUI, preclude you from running earlier OS X versions
> in a VM unless they are the server version (such as Snow Leopard
> Server). Since later versions apparently are somehow server versions
> anyway, again AIUI that limitation doesn't apply to e.g. Yosemite.
> BICBW.
Meh. I have absolutely no reservations installing Mac OS X client
>
> Licensing issues, AIUI, preclude you from running earlier OS X versions
> in a VM unless they are the server version (such as Snow Leopard
> Server). Since later versions apparently are somehow server versions
> anyway, again AIUI that limitation doesn't apply to e.g. Yosemite.
> BICBW.
versions in a virtual machine, considering I have purchased many Macs
and many versions of Mac OS from Apple in my life time. I'm not stealing
anything by doing so - only saving myself time and energy. You can
install Mac OS X 10.6 (client) in VirtualBox with ease. All you need is
the retail install DVD and a little patience. The rest is brain-dead
easy. I've got a VirtualBox Mac OS X 10.6 image that I use often on my
Mac Pro running Yosemite. It's lovely not to have to keep a separate
spare machine running it.
JF Mezei
Feb 22, 2015, 1:30:56 PM2/22/15
to
On 15-02-22 11:11, nospam wrote:
> os x is not an 'almost unix'. it's certified unix.
Although this is correct in the "legal" sense. In real life though, I
> os x is not an 'almost unix'. it's certified unix.
think that Linux is now the de-facto standard so Linux would be the new
Unix.
Of the proprietary Unixes, (Solaris, AIX, HP-UX), I am not certain which
have true Unix certification. I know that DEC's Digital Unix (later
Tru64 under Compaq) had the certification, but it was killed by LaCarly
at HP.
nospam
Feb 22, 2015, 1:32:22 PM2/22/15
to
In article <54ea205e$0$29471$c3e8da3$e074...@news.astraweb.com>, JF
linux is a wannabe, in many respects.
Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> > os x is not an 'almost unix'. it's certified unix.
>
> Although this is correct in the "legal" sense. In real life though, I
> think that Linux is now the de-facto standard so Linux would be the new
> Unix.
os x is certified unix. end of story.
> > os x is not an 'almost unix'. it's certified unix.
>
> Although this is correct in the "legal" sense. In real life though, I
> think that Linux is now the de-facto standard so Linux would be the new
> Unix.
linux is a wannabe, in many respects.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Matt Simpson
Feb 25, 2015, 10:00:10 AM2/25/15
to
JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> Of the proprietary Unixes, (Solaris, AIX, HP-UX), I am not certain which
> have true Unix certification.
IBM's z/OS Unix is certified
> Of the proprietary Unixes, (Solaris, AIX, HP-UX), I am not certain which
> have true Unix certification.
http://www.mainframes.com/Unix.html
JF Mezei
Feb 25, 2015, 12:33:18 PM2/25/15
to
instead of fixed allocation datasets with fixed record formats.
Alan Browne
Feb 25, 2015, 6:54:36 PM2/25/15
to
On 2015.02.22 05:05 , Huge wrote:
> On 2015-02-22, android <he...@there.was> wrote:
> On 2015-02-22, android <he...@there.was> wrote:
>> In article <mc83jk$orj$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Electric Comet <electri...@mail.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 29 Jan 2015 10:47:36 GMT
>>> Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sufficiently so that I bought one. Although I am hovering on the
>>>> threshold between between keeping it on MacOS for the automatic
>>>> updates & having someone else do the support and ditching MacOS for
>>>> Linux because I prefer it.
>>>
>>> Are there firmware updates you would miss going to linux?
>>> Why not run macos in a vm
>>>
>> You get a Mac because you can install software on it that's not
>> available for Linux...
>
>> Electric Comet <electri...@mail.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 29 Jan 2015 10:47:36 GMT
>>> Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sufficiently so that I bought one. Although I am hovering on the
>>>> threshold between between keeping it on MacOS for the automatic
>>>> updates & having someone else do the support and ditching MacOS for
>>>> Linux because I prefer it.
>>>
>>> Are there firmware updates you would miss going to linux?
>>> Why not run macos in a vm
>>>
>> You get a Mac because you can install software on it that's not
>> available for Linux...
>
> Actually, I got an Air because I needed a laptop and I loved the hardware.
> The O/S is OK, I guess, but only because there's an 'almost-Unix' hiding
> The O/S is OK, I guess, but only because there's an 'almost-Unix' hiding
> underneath. If it wasn't for that, it would have had Linux on it like a shot.
It's Unix. Period. And has been so-certified since 10.5 or thereabouts
when on intel based Macs.
http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/certificates/1201p.pdf
--
"Your net worth to the world is usually
determined by what remains after your
bad habits are subtracted from your good ones."
Benjamin Franklin
Alan Browne
Feb 25, 2015, 7:01:40 PM2/25/15
to
Message has been deleted
Warren Oates
Feb 26, 2015, 7:57:07 AM2/26/15
to
In article <cl81tq...@mid.individual.net>,
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2015-02-25, Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> > On 2015.02.22 05:05 , Huge wrote:
> >> On 2015-02-22, android <he...@there.was> wrote:
> >>> In article <mc83jk$orj$1...@dont-email.me>,
> >>> Electric Comet <electri...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 29 Jan 2015 10:47:36 GMT
> >>>> Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Sufficiently so that I bought one. Although I am hovering on the
> >>>>> threshold between between keeping it on MacOS for the automatic
> >>>>> updates & having someone else do the support and ditching MacOS for
> >>>>> Linux because I prefer it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Are there firmware updates you would miss going to linux?
> >>>> Why not run macos in a vm
> >>>>
> >>> You get a Mac because you can install software on it that's not
> >>> available for Linux...
> >>
> >> Actually, I got an Air because I needed a laptop and I loved the hardware.
> >> The O/S is OK, I guess, but only because there's an 'almost-Unix' hiding
> >> underneath. If it wasn't for that, it would have had Linux on it like a
> >> shot.
> >
> > It's Unix.
>
> Believe what you like, I don't give a shit.
It's not about belief, sunshine.
--
Where's the Vangelis music?
Pris' tongue is sticking out in in the wide shot after Batty has kissed her.
They have put back more tits into the Zhora dressing room scene.
-- notes for Blade Runner
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2015-02-25, Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> > On 2015.02.22 05:05 , Huge wrote:
> >> On 2015-02-22, android <he...@there.was> wrote:
> >>> In article <mc83jk$orj$1...@dont-email.me>,
> >>> Electric Comet <electri...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 29 Jan 2015 10:47:36 GMT
> >>>> Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Sufficiently so that I bought one. Although I am hovering on the
> >>>>> threshold between between keeping it on MacOS for the automatic
> >>>>> updates & having someone else do the support and ditching MacOS for
> >>>>> Linux because I prefer it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Are there firmware updates you would miss going to linux?
> >>>> Why not run macos in a vm
> >>>>
> >>> You get a Mac because you can install software on it that's not
> >>> available for Linux...
> >>
> >> Actually, I got an Air because I needed a laptop and I loved the hardware.
> >> The O/S is OK, I guess, but only because there's an 'almost-Unix' hiding
> >> underneath. If it wasn't for that, it would have had Linux on it like a
> >> shot.
> >
> > It's Unix.
>
It's not about belief, sunshine.
--
Where's the Vangelis music?
Pris' tongue is sticking out in in the wide shot after Batty has kissed her.
They have put back more tits into the Zhora dressing room scene.
-- notes for Blade Runner
Alan Browne
Feb 26, 2015, 7:58:38 AM2/26/15
to
On 2015.02.26 02:56 , Huge wrote:
> On 2015-02-25, Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2015-02-25, Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>> Actually, I got an Air because I needed a laptop and I loved the hardware.
>>> The O/S is OK, I guess, but only because there's an 'almost-Unix' hiding
>>> underneath. If it wasn't for that, it would have had Linux on it like a shot.
>>
>> It's Unix.
>
>>> The O/S is OK, I guess, but only because there's an 'almost-Unix' hiding
>>> underneath. If it wasn't for that, it would have had Linux on it like a shot.
>>
>> It's Unix.
>
> Believe what you like, I don't give a shit.
Fact - not belief.
And of course you give a shit, otherwise you would have replaced the
"loved" hardware with Linux. You know, the one that can't get Unix
certification because the Bazaar does not lend itself to such.
Electric Comet
Feb 26, 2015, 10:33:39 AM2/26/15
to
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 18:54:33 -0500
Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> It's Unix. Period. And has been so-certified since 10.5 or
> thereabouts when on intel based Macs.
Certified is a good word
Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> It's Unix. Period. And has been so-certified since 10.5 or
> thereabouts when on intel based Macs.
is the opengroup a committee
I know let's create a group and certify ourselves
like the academy awards! create an award plus ceremony and then
hand out awards to ourselves
but if it makes you feel good then
Message has been deleted
Warren Oates
Feb 26, 2015, 1:25:43 PM2/26/15
to
In article <cl9364...@mid.individual.net>,
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2015-02-26, Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> > On 2015.02.26 02:56 , Huge wrote:
> >> On 2015-02-25, Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> >
> >>>> Actually, I got an Air because I needed a laptop and I loved the
> >>>> hardware.
> >>>> The O/S is OK, I guess, but only because there's an 'almost-Unix' hiding
> >>>> underneath. If it wasn't for that, it would have had Linux on it like a
> >>>> shot.
> >>>
> >>> It's Unix.
> >>
> >> Believe what you like, I don't give a shit.
> >
> > Fact - not belief.
> >
> > And of course you give a shit,
>
> Don't tell me what I think.
>
> *plonk*
Oh no Mr. Bill.
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2015-02-26, Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> > On 2015.02.26 02:56 , Huge wrote:
> >> On 2015-02-25, Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> >
> >>>> Actually, I got an Air because I needed a laptop and I loved the
> >>>> hardware.
> >>>> The O/S is OK, I guess, but only because there's an 'almost-Unix' hiding
> >>>> underneath. If it wasn't for that, it would have had Linux on it like a
> >>>> shot.
> >>>
> >>> It's Unix.
> >>
> >> Believe what you like, I don't give a shit.
> >
> > Fact - not belief.
> >
> > And of course you give a shit,
>
>
> *plonk*
Oh no Mr. Bill.
Alan Browne
Mar 2, 2015, 10:07:06 AM3/2/15
to
On 2015.02.26 12:24 , Huge wrote:
> On 2015-02-26, Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2015-02-26, Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2015.02.26 02:56 , Huge wrote:
>>> On 2015-02-25, Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Actually, I got an Air because I needed a laptop and I loved the hardware.
>>>>> The O/S is OK, I guess, but only because there's an 'almost-Unix' hiding
>>>>> underneath. If it wasn't for that, it would have had Linux on it like a shot.
>>>>
>>>> It's Unix.
>>>
>>> Believe what you like, I don't give a shit.
>>
>> Fact - not belief.
>>
>> And of course you give a shit,
>
>>> On 2015-02-25, Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Actually, I got an Air because I needed a laptop and I loved the hardware.
>>>>> The O/S is OK, I guess, but only because there's an 'almost-Unix' hiding
>>>>> underneath. If it wasn't for that, it would have had Linux on it like a shot.
>>>>
>>>> It's Unix.
>>>
>>> Believe what you like, I don't give a shit.
>>
>> Fact - not belief.
>>
>> And of course you give a shit,
>
> Don't tell me what I think.
>
> *plonk*
You forgot your ball.
>
> *plonk*
Alan Browne
Mar 2, 2015, 10:08:12 AM3/2/15
to
you're topping yourself.
Walter Bushell
Mar 25, 2015, 8:01:21 AM3/25/15
to
In article <220220151111163239%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
There are several very different OSen called Unix. The commonality is
that they at least come close to supporting Posix.
--
Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greed. Me.
that they at least come close to supporting Posix.
--
Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greed. Me.
Electric Comet
Mar 25, 2015, 5:12:22 PM3/25/15
to
On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 08:01:21 -0400
Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
> There are several very different OSen called Unix. The commonality is
> that they at least come close to supporting Posix.
the lines are blurred now for most OSs even ones called Unix.
Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
> There are several very different OSen called Unix. The commonality is
> that they at least come close to supporting Posix.
there a *nix like tools in windows plus mingw and cygwin
does anyone care about posix besides OS committees
BTW the poster mentioned that if macosx wasn't unix like they
would have put linux on
my big worry with these new laptops is changing out batteries, etc.
does it require special tools or can I DIY
nospam
Mar 25, 2015, 5:16:03 PM3/25/15
to
In article <mev89t$jo2$1...@dont-email.me>, Electric Comet
to put it another way, you'll be wanting to replace the entire laptop
for a newer and faster model before the battery in the old one needs to
be replaced.
<electri...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> my big worry with these new laptops is changing out batteries, etc.
> does it require special tools or can I DIY
the batteries will outlast the laptop so it makes no difference.
> my big worry with these new laptops is changing out batteries, etc.
> does it require special tools or can I DIY
to put it another way, you'll be wanting to replace the entire laptop
for a newer and faster model before the battery in the old one needs to
be replaced.
Electric Comet
Mar 25, 2015, 5:30:59 PM3/25/15
to
On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 20:46:18 -0500
JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> Linus Torvalds: Apple's HFS+ is probably the worst file system ever
I have been researching yosmeite and found it that macos now has git
so does aapple not do QA when they add 3rd party pkgs
seems like a basic thing to check how case-insensitivity works
or not when adding any 3rd party app/pkg especially one written
by Linus T.
this seems like a phenomenal failure of mental discipline
is there no adult supervision at aapple engineering
BTW how many days until the Watch
will you camp out in line or you having it shipped
JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> Linus Torvalds: Apple's HFS+ is probably the worst file system ever
I have been researching yosmeite and found it that macos now has git
so does aapple not do QA when they add 3rd party pkgs
seems like a basic thing to check how case-insensitivity works
or not when adding any 3rd party app/pkg especially one written
by Linus T.
this seems like a phenomenal failure of mental discipline
is there no adult supervision at aapple engineering
BTW how many days until the Watch
will you camp out in line or you having it shipped
Wilbur Eleven
Mar 25, 2015, 5:31:18 PM3/25/15
to
In article <250320151716004799%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
--
Fine then, I'm drinking coffee and rolling cigarettes and looking
out at the hot baked street and a lady just walked by wiggling it
in tight white pants, and we are not dead yet.
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> to put it another way, you'll be wanting to replace the entire laptop
> for a newer and faster model before the battery in the old one needs to
> be replaced.
Have another glass of the Kool-aid.
> to put it another way, you'll be wanting to replace the entire laptop
> for a newer and faster model before the battery in the old one needs to
> be replaced.
--
Fine then, I'm drinking coffee and rolling cigarettes and looking
out at the hot baked street and a lady just walked by wiggling it
in tight white pants, and we are not dead yet.
Electric Comet
Mar 25, 2015, 5:33:14 PM3/25/15
to
On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:16:00 -0400
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> the batteries will outlast the laptop so it makes no difference.
see the other thread about batt. replacement
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> the batteries will outlast the laptop so it makes no difference.
seems to contradict you
JF Mezei
Mar 25, 2015, 5:34:45 PM3/25/15
to
On 15-03-25 17:11, Electric Comet wrote:
> my big worry with these new laptops is changing out batteries, etc.
> does it require special tools or can I DIY
www.ifixit.com provides you with a source for parts AND detailed
> my big worry with these new laptops is changing out batteries, etc.
> does it require special tools or can I DIY
instructions for what you need to do to replace parts, and what tools
you need.
Newer macs may have fewer parts that user can replace. For my
MacBookPro, I have replaced memory, battery and disk drive without any
problem.
nospam
Mar 25, 2015, 5:40:39 PM3/25/15
to
In article <mev9f3$jqv$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Wilbur Eleven
the batteries are rated to last 5 years with 80% capacity. most people
replace their computer every 3-4 years.
even for those who keep their laptop a bit longer than typical (which
is a minority), the battery is still plenty usable, especially when it
originally lasted 10-12 hours.
worst case, break out a screwdriver and swap the battery or take it to
an applestore and let them do it. it will only need to be done once in
the life of the laptop.
plus, it's not just apple with internal batteries either.
it's a complete non-issue.
<w...@nowhere.at.all.ru.ca.fr.uk.us> wrote:
> > to put it another way, you'll be wanting to replace the entire laptop
> > for a newer and faster model before the battery in the old one needs to
> > be replaced.
>
> Have another glass of the Kool-aid.
no koolaid needed.
> > to put it another way, you'll be wanting to replace the entire laptop
> > for a newer and faster model before the battery in the old one needs to
> > be replaced.
>
> Have another glass of the Kool-aid.
the batteries are rated to last 5 years with 80% capacity. most people
replace their computer every 3-4 years.
even for those who keep their laptop a bit longer than typical (which
is a minority), the battery is still plenty usable, especially when it
originally lasted 10-12 hours.
worst case, break out a screwdriver and swap the battery or take it to
an applestore and let them do it. it will only need to be done once in
the life of the laptop.
plus, it's not just apple with internal batteries either.
it's a complete non-issue.
nospam
Mar 25, 2015, 5:40:40 PM3/25/15
to
In article <mev9h4$jo2$5...@dont-email.me>, Electric Comet
<electri...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> > the batteries will outlast the laptop so it makes no difference.
>
> see the other thread about batt. replacement
> seems to contradict you
what other thread?
> > the batteries will outlast the laptop so it makes no difference.
>
> see the other thread about batt. replacement
> seems to contradict you
Electric Comet
Mar 25, 2015, 5:42:53 PM3/25/15
to
On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:34:42 -0400
JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> www.ifixit.com provides you with a source for parts AND detailed
> instructions for what you need to do to replace parts, and what tools
> you need.
anything get done that can't be undone
JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> www.ifixit.com provides you with a source for parts AND detailed
> instructions for what you need to do to replace parts, and what tools
> you need.
or in other words does it entail any permanent alterations
> Newer macs may have fewer parts that user can replace. For my
Electric Comet
Mar 25, 2015, 5:46:05 PM3/25/15
to
On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:40:37 -0400
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> what other thread?
not this one and not one that doesn't mention batt. replacemebt
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> what other thread?
not this one and not one that doesn't mention batt. replacemebt
Jolly Roger
Mar 25, 2015, 5:56:40 PM3/25/15
to
On 2015-03-25, Electric Comet <electri...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:34:42 -0400
> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
>> www.ifixit.com provides you with a source for parts AND detailed
>> instructions for what you need to do to replace parts, and what tools
>> you need.
>
> anything get done that can't be undone
> or in other words does it entail any permanent alterations
The web is your friend. Look for yourself on iFixit.
> On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:34:42 -0400
> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
>> www.ifixit.com provides you with a source for parts AND detailed
>> instructions for what you need to do to replace parts, and what tools
>> you need.
>
> anything get done that can't be undone
> or in other words does it entail any permanent alterations
--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.
JR
JF Mezei
Mar 25, 2015, 6:31:32 PM3/25/15
to
On 15-03-25 17:40, nospam wrote:
> the batteries are rated to last 5 years with 80% capacity. most people
> replace their computer every 3-4 years.
That is rather optimistic. lithium ion battery chemistry degrades over
> the batteries are rated to last 5 years with 80% capacity. most people
> replace their computer every 3-4 years.
time. Apple still has to live within the rules of physics and chemistry.
My MacBookPro had severely degraded after 4 years. Not even close to
having kept 80% over 5 years.
> plus, it's not just apple with internal batteries either.
> it's a complete non-issue.
batteries lasting longer than lithium ion batteries. Everyone on same
footing here.
JF Mezei
Mar 25, 2015, 6:33:52 PM3/25/15
to
On 15-03-25 17:41, Electric Comet wrote:
> anything get done that can't be undone
> or in other words does it entail any permanent alterations
Not sure about newer MacBooks, but for my Pro, just some tiny phillips
> anything get done that can't be undone
> or in other words does it entail any permanent alterations
screws, and one strange screw for the battery (used stright edge
screwdriver to get ot out, but I suspect ifixit probably sells that
screwdriver too).
No permanent damage. The unit is all done with screws, not glew, so
nicely maintanable.
Newer units, being more compact, may be less maintainable, but you
should see in iFixit when they do the teardown.
Message has been deleted
nospam
Mar 25, 2015, 6:41:41 PM3/25/15
to
In article <55133741$0$44744$c3e8da3$dd96...@news.astraweb.com>, JF
matches it.
> My MacBookPro had severely degraded after 4 years. Not even close to
> having kept 80% over 5 years.
it's an average. just because *your* battery didn't doesn't mean they
all will. some batteries might not last as long while others will last
longer than expected. *most* people will have 5 year lifetime.
> > plus, it's not just apple with internal batteries either.
> > it's a complete non-issue.
>
> Which is why there is no point in making unreal claims about Apple's
> batteries lasting longer than lithium ion batteries. Everyone on same
> footing here.
apple's batteries *are* lithium ion batteries or lithium polymer.
Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> > the batteries are rated to last 5 years with 80% capacity. most people
> > replace their computer every 3-4 years.
>
> That is rather optimistic. lithium ion battery chemistry degrades over
> time. Apple still has to live within the rules of physics and chemistry.
it's what apple states the user can expect and real world experience
> > the batteries are rated to last 5 years with 80% capacity. most people
> > replace their computer every 3-4 years.
>
> That is rather optimistic. lithium ion battery chemistry degrades over
> time. Apple still has to live within the rules of physics and chemistry.
matches it.
> My MacBookPro had severely degraded after 4 years. Not even close to
> having kept 80% over 5 years.
all will. some batteries might not last as long while others will last
longer than expected. *most* people will have 5 year lifetime.
> > plus, it's not just apple with internal batteries either.
> > it's a complete non-issue.
>
> Which is why there is no point in making unreal claims about Apple's
> batteries lasting longer than lithium ion batteries. Everyone on same
> footing here.
Alan Browne
Mar 25, 2015, 7:23:34 PM3/25/15
to
On 2015-03-25 18:39, Lewis wrote:
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> was all, like:
> capacity at 5 years. You imply by your FUDish statement that these
> numbers aren't correct. Put up or shut up.
The Apple claim is 80% after 1000 complete charge cycles (for Macbooks).
So depending on the user that could be less than 3 years
(balls-to-the-wall road warrior) or much many more.
For many (probably most) users 5 years is a pretty good bet.
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> was all, like:
>> On 15-03-25 17:40, nospam wrote:
>
>>> the batteries are rated to last 5 years with 80% capacity. most people
>>> replace their computer every 3-4 years.
>
>> That is rather optimistic. lithium ion battery chemistry degrades over
>> time. Apple still has to live within the rules of physics and chemistry.
>
> More generic FUD spreading. The batteries are rated for 80% charge
>
>>> the batteries are rated to last 5 years with 80% capacity. most people
>>> replace their computer every 3-4 years.
>
>> That is rather optimistic. lithium ion battery chemistry degrades over
>> time. Apple still has to live within the rules of physics and chemistry.
>
> capacity at 5 years. You imply by your FUDish statement that these
> numbers aren't correct. Put up or shut up.
The Apple claim is 80% after 1000 complete charge cycles (for Macbooks).
So depending on the user that could be less than 3 years
(balls-to-the-wall road warrior) or much many more.
For many (probably most) users 5 years is a pretty good bet.
Electric Comet
Mar 25, 2015, 10:44:59 PM3/25/15
to
On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 18:33:50 -0400
JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> No permanent damage. The unit is all done with screws, not glew, so
> nicely maintanable.
good to know
JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> No permanent damage. The unit is all done with screws, not glew, so
> nicely maintanable.
when I look at an air I really wonder how they come apart
haven't had to chance to look hard just of quick look at the store
> Newer units, being more compact, may be less maintainable, but you
> should see in iFixit when they do the teardown.
Message has been deleted
Electric Comet
Mar 26, 2015, 1:38:33 AM3/26/15
to
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 04:00:00 +0000 (UTC)
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> True, though I think it is 1000 charges OR 5 years. That is, even
> with a low charge cycle count, the battery will lose as much as 20%
> efficacy after 5 years.
lots of hand waving and blah blah blah
1000 charges
what about discharges
and what's the definition of a charge
or a discharge
and why would aapple ever replace a battery free of charge (pun)
are some defective and overly free of charge to a fault
are aapple so kind/generous that they just feel need to give back
does the batt supplier suck up the loss
it's all rather odd
i smell a cover up
perhaps the charge/discharge technology in the laptops was defective
but since it was firmware/software fixable they said "well we'll replace
some of them if it's normal wear/tear" (whatever that means)
deflect blame
move along
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> True, though I think it is 1000 charges OR 5 years. That is, even
> with a low charge cycle count, the battery will lose as much as 20%
> efficacy after 5 years.
lots of hand waving and blah blah blah
1000 charges
what about discharges
and what's the definition of a charge
or a discharge
and why would aapple ever replace a battery free of charge (pun)
are some defective and overly free of charge to a fault
are aapple so kind/generous that they just feel need to give back
does the batt supplier suck up the loss
it's all rather odd
i smell a cover up
perhaps the charge/discharge technology in the laptops was defective
but since it was firmware/software fixable they said "well we'll replace
some of them if it's normal wear/tear" (whatever that means)
deflect blame
move along
Your Name
Mar 26, 2015, 2:53:15 AM3/26/15
to
In article <mf05v3$oep$2...@dont-email.me>, Electric Comet
If you let your battery run down to half charged, then plug it into the
wall to recharge it, you can do that twice before it counts as "1
charge cycle".
If you let your battery run down by 10% and then recharge it, then you
can do that 10 times to count as "1 charge cycle".
BUT leaving your portable device plugged into the wall constantly is
not a good idea either (even ignoring the fact that it was pointless
buying a portable device in the first place).
> and why would aapple ever replace a battery free of charge (pun)
> are some defective and overly free of charge to a fault
> are aapple so kind/generous that they just feel need to give back
> does the batt supplier suck up the loss
>
> it's all rather odd
> i smell a cover up
>
> perhaps the charge/discharge technology in the laptops was defective
> but since it was firmware/software fixable they said "well we'll replace
> some of them if it's normal wear/tear" (whatever that means)
>
> deflect blame
> move along
Batteries are an old and crap technology - they were hopeless long
before laptops were created and still are (one reason why electric cars
simply are not a solution to anything).
The fact that all batteries do become useless is used by people jumping
onto the portable device fad ... it gives them a "good" excuse for
throwing away otherwise perfectly good equipment and buying a new one.
<electri...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 04:00:00 +0000 (UTC)
> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> >
> > True, though I think it is 1000 charges OR 5 years. That is, even
> > with a low charge cycle count, the battery will lose as much as 20%
> > efficacy after 5 years.
>
> lots of hand waving and blah blah blah
>
> 1000 charges
> what about discharges
> and what's the definition of a charge
> or a discharge
These days it's usually defined as complete charge-discharges cycles.
> On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 04:00:00 +0000 (UTC)
> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> >
> > True, though I think it is 1000 charges OR 5 years. That is, even
> > with a low charge cycle count, the battery will lose as much as 20%
> > efficacy after 5 years.
>
> lots of hand waving and blah blah blah
>
> 1000 charges
> what about discharges
> and what's the definition of a charge
> or a discharge
If you let your battery run down to half charged, then plug it into the
wall to recharge it, you can do that twice before it counts as "1
charge cycle".
If you let your battery run down by 10% and then recharge it, then you
can do that 10 times to count as "1 charge cycle".
BUT leaving your portable device plugged into the wall constantly is
not a good idea either (even ignoring the fact that it was pointless
buying a portable device in the first place).
> and why would aapple ever replace a battery free of charge (pun)
> are some defective and overly free of charge to a fault
> are aapple so kind/generous that they just feel need to give back
> does the batt supplier suck up the loss
>
> it's all rather odd
> i smell a cover up
>
> perhaps the charge/discharge technology in the laptops was defective
> but since it was firmware/software fixable they said "well we'll replace
> some of them if it's normal wear/tear" (whatever that means)
>
> deflect blame
> move along
before laptops were created and still are (one reason why electric cars
simply are not a solution to anything).
The fact that all batteries do become useless is used by people jumping
onto the portable device fad ... it gives them a "good" excuse for
throwing away otherwise perfectly good equipment and buying a new one.
nospam
Mar 26, 2015, 3:08:29 AM3/26/15
to
In article <mf05v3$oep$2...@dont-email.me>, Electric Comet
<electri...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> > True, though I think it is 1000 charges OR 5 years. That is, even
> > with a low charge cycle count, the battery will lose as much as 20%
> > efficacy after 5 years.
>
> lots of hand waving and blah blah blah
>
> 1000 charges
> what about discharges
you have to discharge before you can charge. duh.
> > True, though I think it is 1000 charges OR 5 years. That is, even
> > with a low charge cycle count, the battery will lose as much as 20%
> > efficacy after 5 years.
>
> lots of hand waving and blah blah blah
>
> 1000 charges
> what about discharges
> and what's the definition of a charge
> or a discharge
> and why would aapple ever replace a battery free of charge (pun)
> are some defective and overly free of charge to a fault
> are aapple so kind/generous that they just feel need to give back
> does the batt supplier suck up the loss
> it's all rather odd
> i smell a cover up
Bernd Fröhlich
Mar 26, 2015, 4:37:51 AM3/26/15
to
Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:
> BUT leaving your portable device plugged into the wall constantly is
> not a good idea either (even ignoring the fact that it was pointless
> buying a portable device in the first place).
I beg to differ.
> BUT leaving your portable device plugged into the wall constantly is
> not a good idea either (even ignoring the fact that it was pointless
> buying a portable device in the first place).
My MBP is almost constantly plugged in and hooked up to a Monitor.
About once or twice a month I take it with me.
Worked fine for several years and still held enough charge to last a
working day when I got a new one last year.
I惴 pretty confident this will last about 5 years before I buy the next
one. (And if not I惻l simply have the battery replaced by Apple.)
I just don愒 have the time to pamper my battery and try to "optimize" it
by letting it run empty every other day or by any other means that
supposedly prolong it愀 lifetime.
David Empson
Mar 26, 2015, 6:07:15 AM3/26/15
to
Bernd Fröhlich <be...@eaglesoft.de> wrote:
> Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:
>
> > BUT leaving your portable device plugged into the wall constantly is
> > not a good idea either (even ignoring the fact that it was pointless
> > buying a portable device in the first place).
>
> I beg to differ.
> My MBP is almost constantly plugged in and hooked up to a Monitor.
> About once or twice a month I take it with me.
That sort of usage pattern is fine.
> Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:
>
> > BUT leaving your portable device plugged into the wall constantly is
> > not a good idea either (even ignoring the fact that it was pointless
> > buying a portable device in the first place).
>
> I beg to differ.
> My MBP is almost constantly plugged in and hooked up to a Monitor.
> About once or twice a month I take it with me.
Problems can start to occur if the battery is not exercised for several
months to years. I've seen a few cases where someone had a MacBook that
almost never got unplugged from power, and they were surprised to find
that the battery didn't hold much charge when they came to try using it
after a year or two.
Using the computer on battery once or twice a month should be enough to
keep it healthy (running to empty would probably be better, but even
some battery usage is better than none).
> Worked fine for several years and still held enough charge to last a
> working day when I got a new one last year.
> one. (And if not I´ll simply have the battery replaced by Apple.)
>
> I just don´t have the time to pamper my battery and try to "optimize" it
> by letting it run empty every other day or by any other means that
> supposedly prolong it´s lifetime.
Running empty every other day would be excessive. Apple recommends
letting it run empty every month, and that's mostly to calibrate the
battery level measurement. I don't bother, nor do I know anyone who
does.
My typical usage pattern is to have the computer plugged in on weekdays
while at work, and if I use it at home or elsewhere in the evening or
weekend, it is mostly running from battery, except where I have used it
enough to need to plug it in, or if I'm doing something more intensive
that justifies working at a desk or table.
I had each of my previous two MacBook Pros for three to four years and
they still had several hours of operating time on the original battery
when I sold them (both to people I know, so I've had occasional updates
about their current state).
The older one had a removable battery, rated for 80% of its original
capacity after 300 charge cycles. It was up to 450 charge cycles when it
was approaching three years old, and I didn't notice much drop in
battery operating time. The new owner never replaced the battery and it
was still good enough to be useful after seven years. Unfortunately the
computer suffered an accident about then so the experiment can't
continue.
The newer one had an integrated battery, rated for 80% of its original
capacity after 1000 charge cycles. I didn't note where it was when I
sold it, but a sample at about the two year mark shows I was using about
150 charge cycles per annum, so it was probably around 600 when I sold
it after almost four years. The new owner now has it plugged in all of
the time, which is probably not good for it.
I seem to be using the battery a little less on my current MacBook Pro:
about 110 charge cycles per annum so far. The battery operating time is
longer on this model, so it may be that I'm using it on battery about
the same amount but that isn't discharging the battery as far as with my
previous one.
--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz
Message has been deleted
Electric Comet
Mar 27, 2015, 11:31:05 PM3/27/15
to
On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 00:14:22 +0000 (UTC)
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> These are well-defined. Your ignorance can easily be solved with use
> of google.
Ok.
>
> [Still unable to post properly, I see. What a dipshit]
you deteriorate so quickly into personal attacks and foul
language like many others here
it's embarassing to witness and it's expected from a losing position
lashing out in fear or something
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> These are well-defined. Your ignorance can easily be solved with use
> of google.
Ok.
>
> [Still unable to post properly, I see. What a dipshit]
you deteriorate so quickly into personal attacks and foul
language like many others here
it's embarassing to witness and it's expected from a losing position
lashing out in fear or something
Electric Comet
Mar 27, 2015, 11:40:24 PM3/27/15
to
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 09:37:46 +0100
be...@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) wrote:
> I just don´t have the time to pamper my battery and try to "optimize"
this is important because it's clear that aapple tries to cater to
the lowest common demoninator of consumer, not all people care
about things like battery pampering and aapple doesn't want them
to have to think about those details
the firmware/software needs to be better to eliminate any need to do
this
for example why couldn't the laptop while it's plugged into AC
still go through a close to full discharge once in a while
if that's needed
be...@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) wrote:
> I just don´t have the time to pamper my battery and try to "optimize"
> it by letting it run empty every other day or by any other means that
> supposedly prolong it´s lifetime.
this is important because it's clear that aapple tries to cater to
the lowest common demoninator of consumer, not all people care
about things like battery pampering and aapple doesn't want them
to have to think about those details
the firmware/software needs to be better to eliminate any need to do
this
for example why couldn't the laptop while it's plugged into AC
still go through a close to full discharge once in a while
if that's needed
nospam
Mar 27, 2015, 11:42:49 PM3/27/15
to
In article <mf57pg$ell$2...@dont-email.me>, Electric Comet
no product does that.
<electri...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> for example why couldn't the laptop while it's plugged into AC
> still go through a close to full discharge once in a while
> if that's needed
not only is that not needed but it would be a very stupid thing to do.
> for example why couldn't the laptop while it's plugged into AC
> still go through a close to full discharge once in a while
> if that's needed
no product does that.
Message has been deleted
Jolly Roger
Mar 28, 2015, 5:05:10 PM3/28/15
to
On 2015-03-28, Electric Comet <electri...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 00:14:22 +0000 (UTC)
> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>
>> [Still unable to post properly, I see. What a dipshit]
>
> you deteriorate so quickly into personal attacks and foul
> language like many others here
When someone does something that is considered rude, over and over
> On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 00:14:22 +0000 (UTC)
> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>
>> [Still unable to post properly, I see. What a dipshit]
>
> you deteriorate so quickly into personal attacks and foul
> language like many others here
again, despite multiple people asking them to stop, you should expect
people to be upset. If you dislike it, change your bad behavior. Every
single post you make has tons of empty lines that people must actively
trim whenever they reply to you. It's rude. It's stupid. If you dislike
the reactions you are getting, make a change.
Bernd Fröhlich
Mar 30, 2015, 4:11:00 AM3/30/15
to
either.
AFAIK if the battery is at 100% charging stops until the charge drops to
98% and then it will be charged again.
Someone please correct me if I got this wrong.
nospam
Mar 30, 2015, 9:27:28 AM3/30/15
to
In article <1m23crh.1d65npy18cm0lcN%be...@eaglesoft.de>, Bernd Fröhlich
<be...@eaglesoft.de> wrote:
> > > for example why couldn't the laptop while it's plugged into AC
> > > still go through a close to full discharge once in a while
> > > if that's needed
> >
> > not only is that not needed but it would be a very stupid thing to do.
> >
> > no product does that.
>
> It does not go to full discharge but it is not constantly charging
> either.
> AFAIK if the battery is at 100% charging stops until the charge drops to
> 98% and then it will be charged again.
> Someone please correct me if I got this wrong.
95%
> > > for example why couldn't the laptop while it's plugged into AC
> > > still go through a close to full discharge once in a while
> > > if that's needed
> >
> > not only is that not needed but it would be a very stupid thing to do.
> >
> > no product does that.
>
> It does not go to full discharge but it is not constantly charging
> either.
> AFAIK if the battery is at 100% charging stops until the charge drops to
> 98% and then it will be charged again.
> Someone please correct me if I got this wrong.
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