El Capitan Installation Woes

[Otto Pylot]

Thought I'd start a fresh post. Having followed David's link
(https://support.apple.com/HT206886) I attempted to download the
installer for El Capitan (10.11.6). When I tried to "Get" the
installer, the dialog box came up with, "We could not complete your
purchase. This version of OS X 10.11 cannot be installed on this
computer".

The laptop is a MacBook Air, 13-inch, Mid 2011, 8GB memory, with 37.9GB
of available storage. The OS is 10.9.5. My gut feeling is that the
10.11.6 installer still needs the base 10.11 installed, which is what
I'm trying to get. I've got to be doing something wrong I just don't
see it.

--
Deja Moo: I've seen this bullshit before.

[David Empson]

Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:

> Thought I'd start a fresh post. Having followed David's link
> (https://support.apple.com/HT206886) I attempted to download the
> installer for El Capitan (10.11.6). When I tried to "Get" the
> installer, the dialog box came up with, "We could not complete your
> purchase. This version of OS X 10.11 cannot be installed on this
> computer".
>
> The laptop is a MacBook Air, 13-inch, Mid 2011, 8GB memory, with 37.9GB
> of available storage. The OS is 10.9.5. My gut feeling is that the
> 10.11.6 installer still needs the base 10.11 installed, which is what
> I'm trying to get.

Your gut feeling is wrong. The App Store page accessed from the above
page is the full installer which does not require an earlier version of
El Capitan.

(In fact, it is not possible to get a full installer of 10.11.0 any
more: when a new minor version is released, Apple replaces the previous
full installer with an updated one which directly installs the new minor
version. 10.11.6 has been the only version of the El Capitan installer
available for download since July 2016.)

> I've got to be doing something wrong I just don't see it.

That message usually means some aspect of the computer does not meet the
system requirements for the OS version you are trying to download.

Even if you got some details about the MacBook Air wrong, the MacBook
Air definitely meets the model and RAM requirements because those are
identical for El Capitan and Mavericks. It is already running Mavericks,
therefore must be able to run El Capitan. That only leaves the free disk
space as a potential issue. Assuming you got that detail right, we have
a mystery as to why the computer is being rejected.

One possible explanation occurs to me: were you using the MacBook Air in
question to get El Capitan, or were you trying to do the download on
another computer?

A different computer may not work because the computer on which you are
doing the download must also be compatible with El Capitan.

(a) If you tried to download El Capitan on a Mac model introduced in
September 2016 or later, it would fail because the model is too new to
run El Capitan.

(b) If you tried to download El Capitan on a Mac model which is too old
to be supported by El Capitan (all 2006 models, some 2007 and 2008
models), it would fail.

If you tried to download El Capitan using a compatible Mac model which
is running macOS Sierra (10.12) or later, you get a slightly different
error: "OS X can't be installed on "Macintosh HD" because the version of
macOS is too new."
--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[David Ritz]

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On Sunday, 18 February 2018 10:34 -0800,
in article <180220181034530621%ot...@bogus.address.com>,

The link for macOS 10.11 installer is
<https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/os-x-el-capitan/id1147835434?mt=12>.
Following this link should open the App Store.app, from which you can
download the full installer, version 1.7.55. It will download to
/Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app and appears to be 6.22
GB. It shows a creation date of Tuesday, 08 August 2017 at 15:15.
This suggests that it will install macOS 10.11.6, but may still
require some supplemental updates.

This is a full upgrade, not an update. It should upgrade to El
Captitan, in place, over the current version of macOS.

- --
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com>
Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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[Otto Pylot]

In article <alpine.OSX.2.21.1...@mako.ath.cx>, David

I contacted Apple again and got the same results. They even remoted in
to the laptop and scratched their heads as to why it wouldn't install.
The laptop meets all the requirements as far as build, ram, and
available disk space. The only explanation Apple gave me is that the
base OS (10.11.0) is no longer available, only the updates (.1 to .6)
are, so her MB Air can not be updated from 10.9.5 to 10.11.0 because it
isn't running base El Capitan. I'll try the other link posted above but
it it is the 10.11.6 installer, it might not work.

Another thought is could it be her Apple ID? Even tho the laptop was
originally registered to me, I gave it to her and all I did was change
my Apple ID to her's and made her the Admin. Should I login to the
Apple Store as me, on her laptop, and try again? This is becoming more
of a challenge at this point in time than a necessity. Thanks for all
of the help and guidance so far.

[Otto Pylot]

In article <180220181234323495%ot...@bogus.address.com>, Otto Pylot

Hmm, I just looked at the link and it is the same one that I previously
tried which wouldn't work so I'm back to square one. I do have that
third party disk set coming in that Apple found for me but I'm a bit
leery about using that because it apparently was created by the Mac
Repair Store so who knows how reliable it is.

[Otto Pylot]

In article <180220181234323495%ot...@bogus.address.com>, Otto Pylot

Sorry for the lack of organizing my responses. All of the attempts to
download and install have been done on her laptop, not mine.

[Your Name]

As far as I know, you cannot any longer upgrade from 10.9 (Mavericks)
to 10.11 (El Capitan). Apple has stopped allowing that and you have to
upgrade to 10.13 (High Sierra) or 10.12 (Sierra) instead, depending on
the computer's specs.

The only way to upgrade to 10.11 (Mavericks) would be if somebody else
already has a copy of the installer for you to use. It's not really a
good idea to install the OS from an unknown / unauthorised link from
some numbnut on the internet. The best option is to probably go to your
local Apple Store or Authorised Repair Centre to see if they can
install it for you.

[nospam]

In article <p6cogo$dv2$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name

<Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:
> As far as I know, you cannot any longer upgrade from 10.9 (Mavericks)
> to 10.11 (El Capitan). Apple has stopped allowing that and you have to
> upgrade to 10.13 (High Sierra) or 10.12 (Sierra) instead, depending on
> the computer's specs.

nonsense. they haven't stopped allowing it at all.

> The only way to upgrade to 10.11 (Mavericks)

10.11 is el capitan, not mavericks.

> would be if somebody else
> already has a copy of the installer for you to use.

that's a violation of the terms of service, and is likely linked to
their apple id too.

> It's not really a
> good idea to install the OS from an unknown / unauthorised link from
> some numbnut on the internet.

the links are from apple.

> The best option is to probably go to your
> local Apple Store or Authorised Repair Centre to see if they can
> install it for you.

an option.

[Christian]

Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:

> Another thought is could it be her Apple ID? Even tho the laptop was
> originally registered to me, I gave it to her and all I did was change
> my Apple ID to her's and made her the Admin. Should I login to the
> Apple Store as me, on her laptop, and try again? This is becoming more
> of a challenge at this point in time than a necessity. Thanks for all
> of the help and guidance so far.

If you earlier had "purchased" the desired OS version (10.11), then you
should be able to find it in the AppStore under "my purchases" (or
similar) and should be able to download it from there. You may get a
warning that your installed OS is newer and asked whether you want do
download it anyway.

If not: get access to a computer whose maximum useable MacOS is 10.11
and get it via this. You will always be able to download the latest
installable version. But easier than this would be to find a nice person
in your area who already has an archived version of the installer.

Christian

--
Christian F. Buser, Hohle Gasse 6, CH-5507 Mellingen (Switzerland)
Hilfe fuer Strassenkinder in Ghana: http://www.chance-for-children.org

[JF Mezei]

On 2018-02-18 13:34, Otto Pylot wrote:
> Thought I'd start a fresh post. Having followed David's link
> (https://support.apple.com/HT206886) I attempted to download the
> installer for El Capitan (10.11.6). When I tried to "Get" the
> installer, the dialog box came up with, "We could not complete your
> purchase. This version of OS X 10.11 cannot be installed on this
> computer".

Apart from the more obvious reasons posted by others: have you update
the Mac App Store application? aka: is your system up to date for
whatever major version you have?

It could be that you have a very old version of the Mac App Store which
lacks the logic needed to verify El Capitan on your machine.

[Otto Pylot]

In article <x2miC.25249$qc.2...@fx04.iad>, JF Mezei

I thought about that (along with the Apple ID) but I don't know how to
update her App Store app. Her version is 1.3 which I think is the
current workable version for 10.9.5.

[JF Mezei]

On 2018-02-18 16:29, Otto Pylot wrote:

> I thought about that (along with the Apple ID) but I don't know how to
> update her App Store app. Her version is 1.3 which I think is the
> current workable version for 10.9.5.

Does the App Store offer you any updates for your current version of
OS-X? It would be in that.

A 2011 machine is young enough to get el-capitan since the cut off date
was early 2009.

[Tim McNamara]

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 10:34:53 -0800, Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com>
wrote:

>
> The laptop is a MacBook Air, 13-inch, Mid 2011, 8GB memory, with
> 37.9GB of available storage. The OS is 10.9.5. My gut feeling is that
> the 10.11.6 installer still needs the base 10.11 installed, which is
> what I'm trying to get. I've got to be doing something wrong I just
> don't see it.

Coming in late to the conversation so you might have already addressed
this. Why not update through the App Store under the Apple menu? It
will download in the background and then complete the install. This is
really how Apple has set this up to be done, rather than downloading
standalone installers like the old days.

[Otto Pylot]

In article <slrnp8ju7u...@sugaree.local>, Tim McNamara

Attempting to update from 10.9.5 to 10.11.0 thru Apple has been
unsuccessful. There is no update to 10.11.0 except for 10.11.1, which
won't install. I get the error message that I need 10.11 installed
first. I found an OSXUpd10.11.pkg. The installer launched, all looked
normal, validated the packages, started to write the files and then
quit, indicating there was an error in the installation. That's a lot
further than I got with anything from Apple so that leads me to believe
that there is something in the current OS that the installers don't
like. I should be able to update from 10.9.5 with any 10.11.x installer
but I can't. Being as it was my laptop originally, I'm wondering if I
need to make myself the Admin again, not her, and then re-try the
installation. He laptop is not password protected (she just hits Return
when asked for one) so that's not it.

[Christian]

Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:

> In article <slrnp8ju7u...@sugaree.local>, Tim McNamara
> <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 10:34:53 -0800, Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > The laptop is a MacBook Air, 13-inch, Mid 2011, 8GB memory, with
> > > 37.9GB of available storage. The OS is 10.9.5. My gut feeling is that
> > > the 10.11.6 installer still needs the base 10.11 installed, which is
> > > what I'm trying to get. I've got to be doing something wrong I just
> > > don't see it.
> >
> > Coming in late to the conversation so you might have already addressed
> > this. Why not update through the App Store under the Apple menu? It
> > will download in the background and then complete the install. This is
> > really how Apple has set this up to be done, rather than downloading
> > standalone installers like the old days.
>
> Attempting to update from 10.9.5 to 10.11.0 thru Apple has been
> unsuccessful. There is no update to 10.11.0 except for 10.11.1, which
> won't install. I get the error message that I need 10.11 installed
> first. I found an OSXUpd10.11.pkg.

This is surely not an OS X 10.11 installer containing all you need. It
is probably an Update from 10.11.X to 10.11.Y. Check the size. The full
10.11 installer is over 6 GB.

> The installer launched, all looked
> normal, validated the packages, started to write the files and then
> quit, indicating there was an error in the installation.

Because the version of OS X 10.11 which it expected was not there.

> That's a lot
> further than I got with anything from Apple so that leads me to believe
> that there is something in the current OS that the installers don't
> like.

Your beliefs are wrong.

> I should be able to update from 10.9.5 with any 10.11.x installer
> but I can't.

No. You can go to 10.11 from 10.9 (or from any other MacOS X version)
ONLY WITH THE FULL INSTALLER. Not with an updater. I think this has
been written here already several times by several different people.

> Being as it was my laptop originally, I'm wondering if I
> need to make myself the Admin again, not her, and then re-try the
> installation. He laptop is not password protected (she just hits Return
> when asked for one) so that's not it.

This does not influence whether you can install an OS version or not. I
already wrote earlier: re-download the OS X 10.11 installer from your
AppStore if you purchased it earler. Just use the same AppleID which you
used for the purchase. It is under the "purchases" tab (fourth icon from
left). If you never purchased it earlier, you need to get it from
someone else or download with a Mac that can run maximum 10.11.

[Otto Pylot]

In article <1nkfylt.94mffyss7as7N%christi...@ghanart.org>,

Christian, I understand what you are saying, and the .pkg was only
about 2GB so knew it wasn't the complete installer but it was worth a
try (in case I missed something). I never purchased the El Capitan
installer so my options left to me are as you mentioned. Only I don't
know of anyone who has downloaded it nor do we have any Macs that are
not capable of running 10.11 maximum. The complete install package,
which I downloaded earlier is about 6GB (I need to go back and check
for sure) but that installer said I needed 10.11 installed. Made no
sense to me. Thanks for posting back.

[Otto Pylot]

In article <180220181455305573%ot...@bogus.address.com>, Otto Pylot

This is just plain weird. Rummaging around thru my junk drawer I found
an old iBook G4. So tried to download the original installer from Apple
thinking it wouldn't install, but I could at least download it and then
copy to a flash drive, copy to the MB Air, and then install from that.
I could get to the Apple Support site but then dialog boxes popped up
saying that there was a problem with the "SF Text Bold font, in the
font file SC", and I should delete it or replace with an updated
version. Of course I can't find that font in any font folder and
closing the dialog box leaves me with a page of squares where fonts
should be <sigh>.

[David Empson]

Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:

> Thought I'd start a fresh post. Having followed David's link
> (https://support.apple.com/HT206886) I attempted to download the
> installer for El Capitan (10.11.6). When I tried to "Get" the
> installer, the dialog box came up with, "We could not complete your
> purchase. This version of OS X 10.11 cannot be installed on this
> computer".

From details elsewhere in the thread, we know you are trying to do this
on the MacBook Air, which rules out my earlier theory about an attempt
to download on another computer.

I did some further testing and now understand what is going on.

It isn't anything you are doing wrong: Apple has changed the rules since
I last downloaded an El Capitan installer.

Testing now:

1. I was able to download the El Capitan installer on my 2009 Mac Mini
running Snow Leopard (Mac OS X 10.6.8). (I stopped the download as I
don't want to upgrade that computer and already have other copies.)

2. I was NOT able to download the El Capitan installer on my 2013
MacBook Pro while it was booted into Mavericks (OS X 10.9.5).

On the latter machine, I got the same error you did: on clicking the Get
button, App Store immediately showed a sheet saying "We could not

complete your purchase. This version of OS X 10.11 cannot be installed
on this computer."

Investigating under the hood I was able to track down the preflight
package which App Store was downloading from Apple's servers to check
for a compatibile computer, and pulled out its Distribution script. It
contains the following function as one of its checks:

function isSupportedModel(){
var supportedModels = ['MacBook5,1', 'MacBook5,2', 'iMac7,1',
'iMac8,1', 'iMac9,1', 'MacBookAir2,1', 'MacBookPro3,1', 'MacBookPro4,1',
'MacBookPro5,1', 'MacBookPro5,2', 'MacBookPro5,3', 'MacBookPro5,4',
'MacBookPro5,5', 'Macmini3,1', 'MacPro3,1', 'MacPro4,1', 'Xserve3,1'];
var currentModel = system.sysctl('hw.model');

if (supportedModels.indexOf(currentModel) &gt;= 0) {
return true;
}

return false;
}

The supportedModels list is the exact set of model identifiers which are
able to run El Capitan but are not able to run Sierra or later.

In other words, Apple has restricted access to the El Capitan installer
to those Macs which are able to run El Capitan but not able to run
Sierra or later.

Apple has effectively removed the option of choosing to only upgrade as
far as El Capitan (if your Mac is able to run Sierra or later).

If you want to download the El Capitan installer now, you have to do it
on a Mac which is old enough that it can't run Sierra, but new enough
that it can run El Capitan. That is selected 2007 and 2008 models (see
the list on the support page linked earlier), or any Early 2009 or Mid
2009 model, or a Late 2009 Mac Mini.

I'm now downloading the installer in full to check whether it has also
been modified to restrict which models it can be installed on. My
Internet seems to be going slowly at the moment so it will take a while.
--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[David Ritz]

On Sunday, 18 February 2018 12:34 -0800,
in article <180220181234323495%ot...@bogus.address.com>,

Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:

> In article <alpine.OSX.2.21.1...@mako.ath.cx>, David
> Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:

>> The link for macOS 10.11 installer is
>> <https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/os-x-el-capitan/id1147835434?mt=12>.
>> Following this link should open the App Store.app, from which you
>> can download the full installer, version 1.7.55. It will download
>> to /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app and appears to be
>> 6.22 GB. It shows a creation date of Tuesday, 08 August 2017 at
>> 15:15. This suggests that it will install macOS 10.11.6, but may
>> still require some supplemental updates.

>> This is a full upgrade, not an update. It should upgrade to El

>> Capitan, in place, over the current version of macOS.

> The only explanation Apple gave me is that the base OS (10.11.0) is

> no longer available, ....

Otto, you DO NOT want to upgrade to macOS 10.11.0. Whether you
recognize it or not, you want to upgrade to macOS 10.11.6! The ONLY
macOS 10.11.* installer available from the Apple App Store is macOS
10.11.6. Lose any notions you have about 10.11.0; it's history.

Does the link, above, open in the App Store.app? Does it say, "OS X
El Capitan" and "What's New in Version 10.11.6?" Does it offer you
the option to download?

Download and install macOS 10.11.6.

[ snip random thoughts leading nowhere ]

[Your Name]

On 2018-02-19 00:05:55 +0000, David Empson said:
<snip>

>
> In other words, Apple has restricted access to the El Capitan installer
> to those Macs which are able to run El Capitan but not able to run
> Sierra or later.
>
> Apple has effectively removed the option of choosing to only upgrade as
> far as El Capitan (if your Mac is able to run Sierra or later).

<snip>

This change was announced / reported a while back ... although I can't
remember if it was an official Apple announcement or just a report by
somewhere like MacRumors.

Basically Apple doesn't believe there is any point in users upgrading
to lesser (some no longer supported) versions of the OS, so you can
only upgrade to the latest and greatest that your computer can support.
The only exception is those upgrading from an old version of the OS
like Snow Leopard which needs to be done as a two-step upgrade - they
can potentially stop mid-way through after installing El Capitan.

[JF Mezei]

On 2018-02-18 19:40, David Ritz wrote:

> Otto, you DO NOT want to upgrade to macOS 10.11.0. Whether you
> recognize it or not, you want to upgrade to macOS 10.11.6!

Mr EMpson has pretty much confirmed that upgrading to El Capitan on a
machine capable of running Sierra is no longer possible. Your only
option is to upgrade to Sierra or High Sierra if you machine can.

[Otto Pylot]

David Ritz - I understand that but when I download 10.11.6 it fails,
with the error message "you need 10.11". That's my problem.

[Otto Pylot]

In article <itpiC.76221$NZ2....@fx40.iad>, JF Mezei

I'm beginning to understand that it is too late to upgrade to El
Capitan, and will have to go to Sierra, which will probably break some
apps that she really needs.

[nospam]

In article <180220181902477754%ot...@bogus.address.com>, Otto Pylot

<ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:

>
> I'm beginning to understand that it is too late to upgrade to El
> Capitan, and will have to go to Sierra, which will probably break some
> apps that she really needs.

you most likely can once you have the installer (possibly needing to
make a usb stick installer), but you're better off with sierra.

[Your Name]

Those apps probably have newer versions, or equivalents, to update to as well.

There may also be an issue with old peripherals such as printers, but I
recently updated an iMac from Snow Leopard to High Sierra (via El
Capitan, but didn't keep the installer), and although the owner's
printer is no longer supported by a device specific driver, it still
works well enough for her simple needs using the default generic driver
High Sierra chose when it recognised the printer was plugged in.

The only real reason to stick with El Capitan or older is mostly for
personal perference. The on-going updates for High Sierra will mean the
computer will probably last her longer before needing a new one
(assuming she doesn't drop the laptop, lose it, have it stolen, or it
has a hardware failure ... in which case she'd be forced into upgrading
to whatever version of macOS is then current anyway).

[Your Name]

Your local Apple Store or Authorised Service Centre could well still
have the full El Capitan installer (they certainly wouldn't have wanted
to waste time and money continually downloading it).

[J.Albert]

On 2/18/18 1:34 PM, Otto Pylot wrote:
> Thought I'd start a fresh post. Having followed David's link
> (https://support.apple.com/HT206886) I attempted to download the
> installer for El Capitan (10.11.6). When I tried to "Get" the
> installer, the dialog box came up with, "We could not complete your
> purchase. This version of OS X 10.11 cannot be installed on this
> computer".

Then try what I posted earlier (repeated for your convenience):
Try one of these links to download a standalone El Cap
installer:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206886

https://itunes.apple.com/app/os-x-el-capitan/id1147835434?mt=12

If that works for you, do this next:
1. Get a USB flash drive 8gb or 16gb. Initialize to Mac OS
extended with journaling enabled, GUID partition format
2. Download Boot Buddy (free app):
https://sqwarq.com/boot-buddy/
3. Use Boot Buddy to create a bootable flashdrive installer
4. Boot the MBa from the flashdrive installer and install
(or upgrade) that way.

I'm not sure if this installs the "complete" El Cap or not.
If not, upgrade El Cap to 10.11.6 with the "combo updater":
https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1885?locale=en_US

[J.Albert]

On 2/18/18 10:20 PM, J.Albert wrote:
> Then try what I posted earlier (repeated for your convenience):
> Try one of these links to download a standalone El Cap
> installer:
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206886
>
> https://itunes.apple.com/app/os-x-el-capitan/id1147835434?mt=12

Hmmm, I tried those on my 2012 mini, and get an alert "this
cannot be downloaded to your computer". But... the Mini -is-
running El Cap!

In any case, here's another URL to try for a direct El Cap
download:
http://osxapps.itunes.apple.com/apple-assets-us-std-000001/Purple3/v4/74/d2/82/74d28291-9db9-7ae2-305d-9b8b3f5fd463/ftk3252456602304584541.pkg

It "comes down" as a "pkg" file, you might have to right
click on it to show the package contents, then see what to
do next.

[Your Name]

There is this webpage which has a *supposed* direct link to Apple's El
Cpaitan installer, but it requires some mucking about to get it to
install (you have to download the installer file, then set-up a local
server to fool iTunes into installing the local copy instead of getting
it via the App Store).
<https://7labs.io/tips-tricks/el-capitan-direct-download.html>

*BUT*
I have no idea how legitimate that link is and no way to try it. I did
start it downloading the main .pkg file which was 6GB. The links do at
least appear to come from Apple's own iTunes servers.

[David Empson]

J.Albert <j.al...@nowhere.net> wrote:

> On 2/18/18 1:34 PM, Otto Pylot wrote:
> > Thought I'd start a fresh post. Having followed David's link
> > (https://support.apple.com/HT206886) I attempted to download the
> > installer for El Capitan (10.11.6). When I tried to "Get" the
> > installer, the dialog box came up with, "We could not complete your
> > purchase. This version of OS X 10.11 cannot be installed on this
> > computer".
>
> Then try what I posted earlier (repeated for your convenience):
> Try one of these links to download a standalone El Cap
> installer:
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206886
>
> https://itunes.apple.com/app/os-x-el-capitan/id1147835434?mt=12
>
> If that works for you, do this next:

This method won't work for Otto. Those links do not let you download El
Capitan on a 2013 MacBook Air.

Using the links above, you can download El Captain on an older model
which is able to run El Capitan but not Sierra or later (selected 2007
to 2009 Mac models). The resulting download is restricted to doing an
install on the same range of models (which may also apply to a bootable
installer created from that downloaded installer, but I haven't tested
that yet).

Also not yet tested: it should be possible to download El Capitan from
the above links using a Late 2009 through Early 2011 Mac currently
running Snow Leopard. The preflight check and installer must be
different, because the version I got on an older Mac would reject those
models as incompatible.

I have more testing to do with my Early 2011 MacBook Pro when I have
time (not today).

> 1. Get a USB flash drive 8gb or 16gb. Initialize to Mac OS
> extended with journaling enabled, GUID partition format
> 2. Download Boot Buddy (free app):
> https://sqwarq.com/boot-buddy/
> 3. Use Boot Buddy to create a bootable flashdrive installer
> 4. Boot the MBa from the flashdrive installer and install
> (or upgrade) that way.
>
> I'm not sure if this installs the "complete" El Cap or not.
> If not, upgrade El Cap to 10.11.6 with the "combo updater":
> https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1885?locale=en_US

If it worked, it would be 10.11.6, because that is the version in the
installer downloaded via any method from App Store (and has been since
10.11.6 was released).

There would still be post-10.11.6 updates to install (e.g. the latest
Security Update and Safari).

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[Lewis]

In message <180220181034530621%ot...@bogus.address.com> Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:
> Thought I'd start a fresh post. Having followed David's link
> (https://support.apple.com/HT206886) I attempted to download the
> installer for El Capitan (10.11.6). When I tried to "Get" the
> installer, the dialog box came up with, "We could not complete your
> purchase. This version of OS X 10.11 cannot be installed on this
> computer".

> The laptop is a MacBook Air, 13-inch, Mid 2011, 8GB memory, with 37.9GB
> of available storage. The OS is 10.9.5. My gut feeling is that the
> 10.11.6 installer still needs the base 10.11 installed, which is what
> I'm trying to get. I've got to be doing something wrong I just don't
> see it.

Your feeling is incorrect. The download is the full installer.

If you are running 10.9.5 on it, you can install 10.13.

The instructions on the links you followed specifically said this was
for users running Snow Leopard or Lion.

--
When you come to the fork in the road, take it

[Lewis]

As usual, you get the details wrong.

You *MUST* upgrade to an interdediary version to go from 10.6.8 or
10.7.5 to 10.13, you cannot do that update directly.

So, you can get a version (10.11.6) to upgrade your ancient OS and thn
update to High Sierra.

Note: the tech note says this:

"If your Mac doesn't support High Sierra, or you're using Snow Leopard
or Lion and would like to upgrade to High Sierra, follow these steps:"

So, in order for this to work you need to be doing it either on a
machine that is *incapable* of running 10.13 OR a machine currently
running 10.6.8 or 01.7

So, yes it is possible to upgrade to El Capitan on a machine that can
run High Sierra, *if* the current version is old enough.

--
"I'm just like every modern woman trying to have it all. A loving
husband, a family. I only wish I had more time to seek out the dark
forces and join their hellish crusade."

[Lewis]

In message <180220181545450328%nos...@nospam.invalid> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <p6cogo$dv2$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
> <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:
>> As far as I know, you cannot any longer upgrade from 10.9 (Mavericks)
>> to 10.11 (El Capitan). Apple has stopped allowing that and you have to
>> upgrade to 10.13 (High Sierra) or 10.12 (Sierra) instead, depending on
>> the computer's specs.

> nonsense. they haven't stopped allowing it at all.

They have if you did not previously get El Capitan.

>> already has a copy of the installer for you to use.

> that's a violation of the terms of service, and is likely linked to
> their apple id too.

OS installers are not linked to Apple IDs and you are allowed to create
bootable media installers (in fact, Apple provides a tool in the
installer to do this).

But yes, you are only allowed to do this on your own machines.

>> The best option is to probably go to your
>> local Apple Store or Authorised Repair Centre to see if they can
>> install it for you.

> an option.

No, it really isn't. If you have a machine that can run 10.13, You can't
get 10.11 unless you are currently running 10.5.8 or 10.7 on that
machine.


--
I DID NOT SEE ELVIS Bart chalkboard Ep. 7G07

[JF Mezei]

On 2018-02-18 20:02, Your Name wrote:

> This change was announced / reported a while back ... although I can't
> remember if it was an official Apple announcement or just a report by
> somewhere like MacRumors.

In my second attept to go from Yosemite to High Sierre, it was with a
mid upgrade to El Capitan. Apple support on Twitter had no problem
giving me the link to that support page that has the link to get the
download package. )turns out I already had the download package so I
didn't test the Apple STore download).

However, if that capability was removed, then the Apple support page
should be updated to confirm El capitan is no longer availba,le and
provide the link to download Sierra.

[JF Mezei]

On 2018-02-19 00:34, Lewis wrote:

> So, yes it is possible to upgrade to El Capitan on a machine that can
> run High Sierra, *if* the current version is old enough.

Mr Empson's parsing of the scripts pointed to hardware checks to allow
installation of El Capitan on only machines not able to go beyond.

You introduce another check, those who cannot go directly to current OS
and must do intermediate step via El Capitan.

[nospam]

In article <slrnp8kp2i....@Snow.local>, Lewis

<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> >> As far as I know, you cannot any longer upgrade from 10.9 (Mavericks)
> >> to 10.11 (El Capitan). Apple has stopped allowing that and you have to
> >> upgrade to 10.13 (High Sierra) or 10.12 (Sierra) instead, depending on
> >> the computer's specs.
>
> > nonsense. they haven't stopped allowing it at all.
>
> They have if you did not previously get El Capitan.

that just makes it difficult (but not impossible) to obtain the
installer.

the upgrade itself is not blocked.

> >> already has a copy of the installer for you to use.
>
> > that's a violation of the terms of service, and is likely linked to
> > their apple id too.
>
> OS installers are not linked to Apple IDs and you are allowed to create
> bootable media installers (in fact, Apple provides a tool in the
> installer to do this).

yes they are, but the usb stick avoids that.

> But yes, you are only allowed to do this on your own machines.

yep.

> >> The best option is to probably go to your
> >> local Apple Store or Authorised Repair Centre to see if they can
> >> install it for you.
>
> > an option.
>
> No, it really isn't. If you have a machine that can run 10.13, You can't
> get 10.11 unless you are currently running 10.5.8 or 10.7 on that
> machine.

his point is they might be able to help him install it.

[Otto Pylot]

In article <slrnp8kp2i....@Snow.local>, Lewis
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

I really appreciate everyone's input. It appears that there are various
opinions of what I can, and can not do. However, whatever I try, from
where ever I dl the file, her MB Air says no can do. Something on her
(my old) laptop is not playing nice. I really need to find the complete
install package but that is getting to be impossible for me. What I
thought I had (from Apple and elsewhere) is just the updater. I can't
even dl the complete updater using an old iBook G4 because of the font
issue. I'm not giving up yet, and I do have that "Mac Repair" disk
coming but I'm really uneasy about using it. At this point in time I'm
not even sure I can update her laptop to Sierra.

The search goes on. Thanks again everyone.

[nospam]

In article <180220182203152290%ot...@bogus.address.com>, Otto Pylot

<ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:

> I can't
> even dl the complete updater using an old iBook G4 because of the font
> issue.

actually, it's because the ibook g4 won't run anything past leopard and
you need snow leopard (or later) to access the app store to be able to
download it.

[Your Name]

El Capitan is no longer available for those wanting to upgrade from
certain older versions (I can't recall what version is the cut-off,
Mavericks??). You have to update directly to either Sierra or High
Sierra.

El Capitan is still available for those even older versions such as
Snow Leopard who want to upgrade. You meant to use El Capitan as a
mid-step to getting to Sierra or High Sierra because the older OSes
can't do a direct upgrade to these two newest versions, but you can
stop at El Capitan if you really want to.

Apple simply wants everyone where possible to be using Sierra or High
Sierra. Anything older will at some stage be (and for some versions is
already) classed as "obsolete" and no longer supported.

[David Empson]

JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 2018-02-19 00:34, Lewis wrote:
>
> > So, yes it is possible to upgrade to El Capitan on a machine that can
> > run High Sierra, *if* the current version is old enough.
>
> Mr Empson's parsing of the scripts pointed to hardware checks to allow
> installation of El Capitan on only machines not able to go beyond.

Yes, but as I've pointed out in a later post, that script is the one I
got when I downloaded El Capitan on a 2009 model which is too old to run
Sierra or later.

A Late 2009 through Mid 2012 Mac currently running Snow Leopard or Lion
must get a different version of the preflight script and El Capitan
installer, which does allow installation on that computer.

I haven't had time yet to test that and examine the details.

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[Otto Pylot]

In article <190220180108296245%nos...@nospam.invalid>, nospam

I couldn't even get to the download because the Apple Support page was
nothing but squares where the fonts were supposed to be (on Safari and
Firefox) so attempting to use it is a moot point.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2018-02-19, David Empson <dem...@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> J.Albert <j.al...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>> On 2/18/18 1:34 PM, Otto Pylot wrote:
>> > Thought I'd start a fresh post. Having followed David's link
>> > (https://support.apple.com/HT206886) I attempted to download the
>> > installer for El Capitan (10.11.6). When I tried to "Get" the
>> > installer, the dialog box came up with, "We could not complete your
>> > purchase. This version of OS X 10.11 cannot be installed on this
>> > computer".
>>
>> Then try what I posted earlier (repeated for your convenience): Try
>> one of these links to download a standalone El Cap installer:
>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206886
>>
>> https://itunes.apple.com/app/os-x-el-capitan/id1147835434?mt=12
>>
>> If that works for you, do this next:
>
> This method won't work for Otto. Those links do not let you download
> El Capitan on a 2013 MacBook Air.
>
> Using the links above, you can download El Captain on an older model
> which is able to run El Capitan but not Sierra or later (selected 2007
> to 2009 Mac models). The resulting download is restricted to doing an
> install on the same range of models (which may also apply to a
> bootable installer created from that downloaded installer, but I
> haven't tested that yet).

To get around that, couldn't you just add your model number to the list
in the preflight script once you have the installer? I've done that with
past versions.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[Christian]

Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:

> This is just plain weird. Rummaging around thru my junk drawer I found
> an old iBook G4. So tried to download the original installer from Apple
> thinking it wouldn't install, but I could at least download it and then
> copy to a flash drive, copy to the MB Air, and then install from that.
> I could get to the Apple Support site but then dialog boxes popped up
> saying that there was a problem with the "SF Text Bold font, in the
> font file SC", and I should delete it or replace with an updated
> version. Of course I can't find that font in any font folder and
> closing the dialog box leaves me with a page of squares where fonts
> should be <sigh>.

So you downloaded what - the OS X 10.11 installer? With a Powerbook G4?
Sure not. Such a device would never be able to download that software
because that software would not run on it. You would get an error
message.

The "newest" Powerbook G4 - the 17" model introduced October 2005 and
discontinued April 2006 was originally using Mac OS X 10.4.2, and the
maximum OS was 10.5.8,

The AppStore was introduced with OS X 10.6, if I am not mistaken.

How / why / when did you "get to the Apple Support site"? OS X 10.11
(and others) can not be found on any support site, but only in the App
Store.

If you are not "connected" within the Apple community - for example
through a Mac user group or so - the only possibility I can see is to go
to an _independent_ Apple Repair center and ask them to install 10.11
for you. (Independent, because Apple would install the latest system
which the Mac could handle - which would probably be High Sierra).

Given the size of the installer app (over 6 GB) it is nearly impossible
to transfer it over the internet. And even if it was possible nobody
would publicly tell you a download address here since the email address
you give in your posts surely would not work.

Christian

--
Christian F. Buser, Hohle Gasse 6, CH-5507 Mellingen (Switzerland)
Hilfe fuer Strassenkinder in Ghana: http://www.chance-for-children.org

[Otto Pylot]

In article <1nkhk4b.gtmbea17ra2odN%christi...@ghanart.org>,

I mistakenly read that if one uses an older Mac than can not run El
Capitan you should be able to at least download the file (but not
install it) then copy the file to a flash drive and then install from
there once the flash drive is configured properly.

I followed a supplied link in a post above which took me to the Apple
Support site which had the 10.11.6 updater (which I initially thought
was the El Capitan installer). Talking to Apple, they lead me to the
link for the Mac Repair site which has apparently created install DVDs
for clean installs of El Capitan and other older OS's. The DVD is
supposed to arrive today so I'll check it out without installation
first but I'm still not comfortable with using it.

At this point in time I just may upgrade her to Sierra and be done with
it. Her only objection to that was Quicken 2007 but I understand that
there are folks running Quicken 2007 under Sierra with no issues, or
very few issues that doesn't affect the basic features.

This has definitely been a good learning experience and I want to thank
everyone who contributed and kept it civil.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2018-02-19, Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:
>
> Talking to Apple, they lead me to the link for the Mac Repair site
> which has apparently created install DVDs for clean installs of El
> Capitan and other older OS's.

What "Mac Repair" site? Link, please?

[Christian]

Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:

> I mistakenly read that if one uses an older Mac than can not run El
> Capitan you should be able to at least download the file (but not
> install it) then copy the file to a flash drive and then install from
> there once the flash drive is configured properly.

You can purchase / download the latest version which runs on that
specific computer. If your computer can handle 10.11 maximum, then you
can d/l 10.11; if it handles 10.12, you can only download 10.12 - no
chance to download 10.11 unless you had purchased it at an earlier
stage.

> At this point in time I just may upgrade her to Sierra and be done with
> it. Her only objection to that was Quicken 2007 but I understand that
> there are folks running Quicken 2007 under Sierra with no issues, or
> very few issues that doesn't affect the basic features.

At present, High Sierra (10.13) is the "system of choice" for Apple -
and unless the computer you want to upgrade cannot use 10.13 but can use
10.12 (Sierra), you won't be able to download Sierra.

[Otto Pylot]

In article <ff0ttd...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger

<jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2018-02-19, Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:
> >
> > Talking to Apple, they lead me to the link for the Mac Repair site
> > which has apparently created install DVDs for clean installs of El
> > Capitan and other older OS's.
>
> What "Mac Repair" site? Link, please?

fastmacrepair.org

I can't vouch for them as I haven't used them before nor will I
probably not install their OS 10.11 installation/recovery disk. Looks
like I will just go ahead and upgrade the MacBook Air (mid-2011) to
Sierra and see what happens.

[Christian]

Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:

> I can't vouch for them as I haven't used them before nor will I
> probably not install their OS 10.11 installation/recovery disk. Looks
> like I will just go ahead and upgrade the MacBook Air (mid-2011) to
> Sierra and see what happens.

Are you reading only partially what others write?

A MacBook Air mid-2011 can run High Sierra (10.13).

Therefore, unless you have previously purchased / downloaded MacOS
Sierra (10.12), you won't be able to get that version from the AppStore.

Your only choice will be High Sierra (10.13).

[Jolly Roger]

On 2018-02-19, Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:
> In article <ff0ttd...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
><jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 2018-02-19, Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Talking to Apple, they lead me to the link for the Mac Repair site
>> > which has apparently created install DVDs for clean installs of El
>> > Capitan and other older OS's.
>>
>> What "Mac Repair" site? Link, please?
>
> fastmacrepair.org
>
> I can't vouch for them as I haven't used them before nor will I

> probably not install their OS 10.11 installation/recovery disk.i

Wow. English must not be their first language, going by all of the
spelling and grammatical errors on their web site. I'm surprised
official Apple support representatives would send you there. Is selling
DVDs and USB sticks with macOS installers on them even legal?

> Looks like I will just go ahead and upgrade the MacBook Air (mid-2011)
> to Sierra and see what happens.

That's the best course of action, IMO. You'll end up with a system that
will see security updates for a longer period of time. Post here for
assistance with any issues you encounter during or after the upgrade.

[nospam]

In article <ff17aj...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger

<jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> >> > Talking to Apple, they lead me to the link for the Mac Repair site
> >> > which has apparently created install DVDs for clean installs of El
> >> > Capitan and other older OS's.
> >>
> >> What "Mac Repair" site? Link, please?
> >
> > fastmacrepair.org
> >
> > I can't vouch for them as I haven't used them before nor will I
> > probably not install their OS 10.11 installation/recovery disk.i
>
> Wow. English must not be their first language, going by all of the
> spelling and grammatical errors on their web site. I'm surprised
> official Apple support representatives would send you there. Is selling
> DVDs and USB sticks with macOS installers on them even legal?

no.

[JF Mezei]

On 2018-02-19 18:03, Christian wrote:

> Therefore, unless you have previously purchased / downloaded MacOS
> Sierra (10.12), you won't be able to get that version from the AppStore.

Say you get the 5GB El Capitan installer from a friend and install it on
your machine. But that Installer is 10.11.0.

From the point you have installed (but not "purchased"), will the App
Store offer you the software updates for El Capitan (which I believe
gets you to .6 ?).

[Jolly Roger]

Of course; and there's no rational reason it wouldn't.

Que some irrational explanation from JF Mezei, in 3... 2... 1...

[JF Mezei]

On 2018-02-19 21:09, Jolly Roger wrote:

>> From the point you have installed (but not "purchased"), will the App
>> Store offer you the software updates for El Capitan (which I believe
>> gets you to .6 ?).
>
> Of course; and there's no rational reason it wouldn't.

It is not inconceivable that the App Store would not present updates to
software that is not on your purchased list.

On the other hand, I believe OS updates are treated differently. So
while you may dismiss it, I beleive the question is reasobable.

Knowing whether you will have access to OS-X updates after installing
"out of App Store" is important when making decision on whether to
proceed with installing El Capitan from someone's kit instead of App Store.

[nospam]

In article <r2MiC.20451$gZ2....@fx23.iad>, JF Mezei

<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> >> From the point you have installed (but not "purchased"), will the App
> >> Store offer you the software updates for El Capitan (which I believe
> >> gets you to .6 ?).
> >
> > Of course; and there's no rational reason it wouldn't.
>
> It is not inconceivable that the App Store would not present updates to
> software that is not on your purchased list.

not only is it inconceivable, but the updates can easily be downloaded
directly, regardless of what version you have installed, or even on a
windows system.

<https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1885?locale=en_US>

[JF Mezei]

On 2018-02-19 21:57, nospam wrote:

> directly, regardless of what version you have installed, or even on a
> windows system.
>
> <https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1885?locale=en_US>

Apple's download pages do not work on Firefox, and I doubt they work on
Microsoft's browser. They work on Safari. On Firefox, the "download"
button is just "Download icon" text. (not clickable).

When one is told by Apple that the App Store is your one stop shop, one
doesn't think about searching support pages for "secret" links to get OS
updates.

This one actually downloads theUPDATE, not a link to the app store, so
this would work even if El Capiotan is not "purchased".

[nospam]

In article <UwMiC.91699$KA7....@fx05.iad>, JF Mezei

<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

>
> > directly, regardless of what version you have installed, or even on a
> > windows system.
> >
> > <https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1885?locale=en_US>
>
> Apple's download pages do not work on Firefox,

nonsense. it works perfectly fine.

> and I doubt they work on
> Microsoft's browser.

wrong on that too. i just tried it with edge in windows 10 and it
worked without issue.

> They work on Safari. On Firefox, the "download"
> button is just "Download icon" text. (not clickable).

nope. it's clickable and initiates a download.

pebkac.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2018-02-20, JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 2018-02-19 21:09, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>>> From the point you have installed (but not "purchased"), will the App
>>> Store offer you the software updates for El Capitan (which I believe
>>> gets you to .6 ?).
>>
>> Of course; and there's no rational reason it wouldn't.
>
> It is not inconceivable that the App Store would not present updates to
> software that is not on your purchased list.

Pure FUD from the ignorant FUDster. Apple's software updates have
*never* worked that way. They are free to download from both the App
Store (no purchase necessary) as well as Apple's Downloads web site.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2018-02-20, JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 2018-02-19 21:57, nospam wrote:
>
>> directly, regardless of what version you have installed, or even on a
>> windows system.
>>
>> <https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1885?locale=en_US>
>
> Apple's download pages do not work on Firefox, and I doubt they work on
> Microsoft's browser.

LOL! Nonsense. I've downloaded *plenty* of stuff from Apple's web site
from Firefox and Internet Explorer through the years. You just love to
make shit up like this. If it wasn't so horribly easy to prove you
wrong, it'd be funny. Instead, it's just plain sad.

And this has absolutely *nothing* to do with whether one can update
macOS installs without a purchase.

> They work on Safari. On Firefox, the "download"
> button is just "Download icon" text. (not clickable).

I suppose you want me to believe I'm delusional then:

<https://i.imgur.com/IpMRZER.png>

Not happening.

You're clueless and inept - and ever the FUDster.

[Lewis]

In message <jJtiC.57981$YR7....@fx34.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2018-02-19 00:34, Lewis wrote:

>> So, yes it is possible to upgrade to El Capitan on a machine that can
>> run High Sierra, *if* the current version is old enough.

> Mr Empson's parsing of the scripts pointed to hardware checks to allow
> installation of El Capitan on only machines not able to go beyond.

OK? That doesn't change what I said at all.

> You introduce another check, those who cannot go directly to current OS
> and must do intermediate step via El Capitan.

No, that is not another check, it is WHY the check David found exists.

--
He [Carrot] could lead armies, Angua thought. He really could. Some
people have inspired whole countries to great deeds because of the power
of their vision. And so could he. Not because he dreams about marching
hordes, or world domination, or an empire of a thousand years. Just
because he thinks that everyone's really decent underneath and would get
along just fine if only they made an effort, and he believes that
strongly it burns like a flame that is bigger than he is.

[Lewis]

In message <190220180100468456%nos...@nospam.invalid> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <slrnp8kp2i....@Snow.local>, Lewis
> <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>> >> As far as I know, you cannot any longer upgrade from 10.9 (Mavericks)
>> >> to 10.11 (El Capitan). Apple has stopped allowing that and you have to
>> >> upgrade to 10.13 (High Sierra) or 10.12 (Sierra) instead, depending on
>> >> the computer's specs.
>>
>> > nonsense. they haven't stopped allowing it at all.
>>
>> They have if you did not previously get El Capitan.

> that just makes it difficult (but not impossible) to obtain the
> installer.

> the upgrade itself is not blocked.

If you previously have the installer, yes. So far no one has found a way
to download a working installer from Apple on a machine that is 1)
capable or running 10.13 and 2) not running 10.7.x or 10.6.8.

>> No, it really isn't. If you have a machine that can run 10.13, You can't
>> get 10.11 unless you are currently running 10.5.8 or 10.7 on that
>> machine.

> his point is they might be able to help him install it.

I don't think so.

--
The reaper does not listen to the harvest. --Reaper Man

[Lewis]

What matters is what APPLE says, and they say you can download and
install 10.13 and you cannot download and install 10.12 or earlier.

--
If there's a bustle in your hedgerow don't be alarmed now.

[Lewis]

That is correct, if the older machine is running 10.6.8 or later.

--
'You've got the loudest silences I ever did hear from anyone who wasn't
dead!' --Lords and Ladies

[Lewis]

In message <ff17aj...@mid.individual.net> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2018-02-19, Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:
>> In article <ff0ttd...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
>><jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>>> On 2018-02-19, Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Talking to Apple, they lead me to the link for the Mac Repair site
>>> > which has apparently created install DVDs for clean installs of El
>>> > Capitan and other older OS's.
>>>
>>> What "Mac Repair" site? Link, please?
>>
>> fastmacrepair.org
>>
>> I can't vouch for them as I haven't used them before nor will I
>> probably not install their OS 10.11 installation/recovery disk.i

> Wow. English must not be their first language, going by all of the
> spelling and grammatical errors on their web site. I'm surprised
> official Apple support representatives would send you there. Is selling
> DVDs and USB sticks with macOS installers on them even legal?

No, though it is possible the OP is another country with other rules. I
don't know first hand, but I've heard Apple does make odd exceptions and
arrangements in some countries based on their presence (or non-presence)
and the availability of broadband there, but these are rumors to me.

> That's the best course of action, IMO. You'll end up with a system that
> will see security updates for a longer period of time. Post here for
> assistance with any issues you encounter during or after the upgrade.

The only issue is that MB Air is pretty low on the list of capable
machines and 4GB of RAM is going to kind of suck.


--
'What can I do? I'm only human,' he said aloud. Someone said, Not all
of you. --Pyramids

[Lewis]

In message <n3KiC.103740$9%2.2...@fx36.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2018-02-19 18:03, Christian wrote:

>> Therefore, unless you have previously purchased / downloaded MacOS
>> Sierra (10.12), you won't be able to get that version from the AppStore.


> Say you get the 5GB El Capitan installer from a friend and install it on
> your machine. But that Installer is 10.11.0.

Didn't the certificates expire around there? If so, that won't install
either. Nothing downloaded before Feb 14, 2016 can be installed.

--
A ship should not ride on a single anchor, nor life on a single hope

[Lewis]

In message <UwMiC.91699$KA7....@fx05.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2018-02-19 21:57, nospam wrote:

>> directly, regardless of what version you have installed, or even on a
>> windows system.
>>
>> <https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1885?locale=en_US>

> Apple's download pages do not work on Firefox,

Bullshit. They work just fine.

> and I doubt they work on Microsoft's browser.

FUD much?

> They work on Safari. On Firefox, the "download"
> button is just "Download icon" text. (not clickable).

This is a fucking lie, as usual. They work perfectly fine in Firefox,
Chrome, and Safari. (Yes, I just checked that page on all three
browsers).

Fucking chucklehead.

--
"I hope someday you know the indescribable joy of having children, and
of paying someone else to raise them."

[JF Mezei]

On 2018-02-19 23:17, Lewis wrote:

>>> <https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1885?locale=en_US>

> Bullshit. They work just fine.

I get this:

http://www.vaxination.ca/temp/apple_download.jpg

Firefox 58.0.2


> FUD much?

Relating my experience.

>> They work on Safari. On Firefox, the "download"

They USED to work on Firefox. But recently stopped working. Not stating
any motives. Firefox bugs likely. But since Apple purposefully disables
its keynote webcasts from non Safari browsers, I wouldn't put it past
them to disable downloads from non Safari browsers.

> This is a fucking lie, as usual.

Normally, I would expect an apology for such an insult, but I know you
are such a low life that you wouldn't admit to insulting me inappropriately.

[Your Name]

The blue Download button on that Apple page displays and works as it
should in my copy of Firefox 58.0.2. I only had a very quick look, but
it seems to be a normal HTML download link for a DMG file, so it should
work fine in any browser and any OS.

[David Empson]

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[David Empson]

JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 2018-02-19 23:17, Lewis wrote:
>
> >>> <https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1885?locale=en_US>
>
> > Bullshit. They work just fine.
>
> I get this:
>
> http://www.vaxination.ca/temp/apple_download.jpg
>
> Firefox 58.0.2

Same version of Firefox here and it works fine.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/swhb566g4qh0gt3/Screen%20Shot%202018-02-20%20at%207.36.37%20PM.png?dl=0

I was pointing to the Download button when I took that screen shot, so
it shows the link in the status bar at the bottom. (I'm not going to
bother downloading it just to prove the point further.)

Also works fine in Firefox on my Windows PC (apart from a horrible
looking font override).

> > FUD much?
>
> Relating my experience.

Your Firefox is broken. It is missing the icons and download button at
the top, and the bottom half of the page. It appears to have stalled in
the middle of loading the page and never got the rest of the content.

Perhaps you have some add-on installed which is causing problems? Mine
is pretty close to virgin as almost all the plugins I was using are
incompatible with Firefox Quantum.

Or it could be something corrupted in your installation. Try a fresh
profile or logging in as a different user.

> >> They work on Safari. On Firefox, the "download"
>
> They USED to work on Firefox. But recently stopped working. Not stating
> any motives. Firefox bugs likely. But since Apple purposefully disables
> its keynote webcasts from non Safari browsers, I wouldn't put it past
> them to disable downloads from non Safari browsers.

FUD again.

Apple limits web browsers for their media event keynotes because the
video is streamed using a method (HTTP Live Streaming, HLS for short)
which is fully supported on iOS, tvOS, Safari 6.0 or later on the Mac,
plus Microsoft Edge, but (as of the last media event) not by Chrome or
Firefox for desktop computers.

According to Wikipedia:

Chrome only supports HLS on mobile devices, not desktop, and Apple may
have decided the mobile version isn't up to scratch (or they simply
haven't tested it, so don't mention it as an option).

Firefox is also shown as Partial support, mentioning version 50+ on
Android, 57+ on desktop. Firefox 57 was released in November 2017, after
Apple's last media event, so Firefox might be supported for the next
event (if Apple deems Firefox's implementation good enough, and the
other details like the video codec are supported).

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[JF Mezei]

On 2018-02-20 01:14, Your Name wrote:

> The blue Download button on that Apple page displays and works as it
> should in my copy of Firefox 58.0.2.

Interesting. Wonder if it is because I am in Canada.

[Lewis]

In message <IuOiC.62749$4_2....@fx35.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2018-02-19 23:17, Lewis wrote:

>>>> <https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1885?locale=en_US>

>> Bullshit. They work just fine.

> I get this:

> http://www.vaxination.ca/temp/apple_download.jpg

> Firefox 58.0.2

I'm sure you fucked something up. It works in Firefox, as others have
also confirmed.

<https://www.dropbox.com/s/buy8rdrrvkpegk1/Screenshot%202018-02-20%2001.10.56.png?dl=0>

>> FUD much?

> Relating my experience.

Your experience is that you lie constantly about things, either directly
or via calculated omission. We've all see your pattern.

>>> They work on Safari. On Firefox, the "download"

> They USED to work on Firefox. But recently stopped working.

No. It works as of a few seconds ago, when I took the above screen shot.

> Not stating any motives. Firefox bugs likely. But since Apple
> purposefully disables its keynote webcasts from non Safari browsers,

Another lie. Apple's webcast uses an open streaming technology (HLS) that
Firefox doesn't support. Chrome (iOS and Android) support HLS, as does
Microsoft Edge, VLC 3.0, Media Player Classic, Kodi, and MythTV.
Probably many others.

Oh look, you lied AGAIN in trying to spread FUD.

> I wouldn't put it past them to disable downloads from non Safari
> browsers.

Of course not, because you love to spread FUD and lies.

>> This is a fucking lie, as usual.

> Normally, I would expect an apology for such an insult, but I know you
> are such a low life that you wouldn't admit to insulting me inappropriately.

You lie, I will call it a lie. Don't want me to point out your lies,
STOP LYING.

--
A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand.

[Otto Pylot]

In article <slrnp8nmeo....@Snow.local>, Lewis

Wow. Didn't think my simple question would create such a "lively"
discussion. For the record, I live in the good 'ol U.S. of A. For
clarity's sake, the MacBook Air is a mid-2011 edition with only 4MB of
ram so yeah, that's gonna suck but she's not a power user so hopefully
the slowness won't be an issue. I will be upgrading to Sierra later on
today so I'll let ya'll know how that goes. Hopefully there won't be
any issues with Mail and all her data remains intact. I have backed up
her Air via CCC to an external drive just in case, but have never
restored anything from a backup so that's another potential issue.

[Jolly Roger]

“See? Apple hates Canadians. I have irrefutable proof!”

[Jolly Roger]

Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <IuOiC.62749$4_2....@fx35.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>> On 2018-02-19 23:17, Lewis wrote:
>
>>>>> <https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1885?locale=en_US>
>
>>> Bullshit. They work just fine.
>
>> I get this:
>
>> http://www.vaxination.ca/temp/apple_download.jpg
>
>> Firefox 58.0.2
>
> I'm sure you fucked something up.

He blames Apple for all of his fuckups. Nothing new here.

[Christian]

Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:

> Wow. Didn't think my simple question would create such a "lively"
> discussion. For the record, I live in the good 'ol U.S. of A. For
> clarity's sake, the MacBook Air is a mid-2011 edition with only 4MB of
> ram

Sure? Your first post in this discussion said otherwise:

> The laptop is a MacBook Air, 13-inch, Mid 2011, 8GB memory, with 37.9GB
> of available storage.

There might be a slight difference between 4GB and 8GB... :?:

> so yeah, that's gonna suck but she's not a power user so hopefully
> the slowness won't be an issue. I will be upgrading to Sierra later on
> today so I'll let ya'll know how that goes.

As I told you before: It is very unlikely that you can download "Sierra"
(10.12.x) from Apple, since High Sierra (10.13.x) is out for quite a
while now.

I also explained that Apple always offers you the _latest_ version for
download which runs on the machine trying to download the installer.

So, if your machine is able to install OS X 10.11.x but not later, then
it will offer you 10.11.x but not higher (and not below, unless you have
"purchased" it earlier). If the maximum for the machine is 10.12, thos
version will be available, but not 10.11 - and not 10.13.

However, a MacBook Air from mid-2011 is able to run OS X 10.13 (High
Sierra), and therefore, this version will be available for download.

Christian
--
Christian F. Buser, Hohle Gasse 6, CH-5507 Mellingen (Switzerland)
Hilfe fuer Strassenkinder in Ghana: http://www.chance-for-children.org

[Otto Pylot]

In article <1nkjdpx.aqez6u2nl3l7N%christi...@ghanart.org>,

The amount of ram was a typo. My MacBook Air has 8GB of ram , hers has
4. I did find the Sierra download on Apple Support earlier this morning
snooping around on my Air so I'll see if I can find it in a few using
her Air.

[nospam]

In article <200220181102448426%ot...@bogus.address.com>, Otto Pylot

<ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:

>
> The amount of ram was a typo. My MacBook Air has 8GB of ram , hers has
> 4. I did find the Sierra download on Apple Support earlier this morning
> snooping around on my Air so I'll see if I can find it in a few using
> her Air.

that's probably an updater.

the full installers are via the app store.

[Your Name]

On 2018-02-20 18:56:40 +0000, Christian said:
> Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:
>>
>> Wow. Didn't think my simple question would create such a "lively"
>> discussion. For the record, I live in the good 'ol U.S. of A. For
>> clarity's sake, the MacBook Air is a mid-2011 edition with only 4MB of
>> ram
>
> Sure? Your first post in this discussion said otherwise:
>
>> The laptop is a MacBook Air, 13-inch, Mid 2011, 8GB memory, with 37.9GB
>> of available storage.
>
> There might be a slight difference between 4GB and 8GB... :?:

The first quote above actually says 4*MB*, so that's an even bigger
difference. ;-)

[Otto Pylot]

In article <p6hugj$j2c$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name

<sigh> You guys are a tough crowd :-) BTW, Sierra is installing on her
Air just fine right now. I'll update the thread later on when done.

[David Empson]

David Empson <dem...@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

> J.Albert <j.al...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
> > On 2/18/18 1:34 PM, Otto Pylot wrote:
> > > Thought I'd start a fresh post. Having followed David's link
> > > (https://support.apple.com/HT206886) I attempted to download the
> > > installer for El Capitan (10.11.6). When I tried to "Get" the
> > > installer, the dialog box came up with, "We could not complete your
> > > purchase. This version of OS X 10.11 cannot be installed on this
> > > computer".
> >
> > Then try what I posted earlier (repeated for your convenience):
> > Try one of these links to download a standalone El Cap
> > installer:
> > https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206886
> >
> > https://itunes.apple.com/app/os-x-el-capitan/id1147835434?mt=12
> >
> > If that works for you, do this next:
>
> This method won't work for Otto. Those links do not let you download El
> Capitan on a 2013 MacBook Air.
>
> Using the links above, you can download El Captain on an older model
> which is able to run El Capitan but not Sierra or later (selected 2007
> to 2009 Mac models). The resulting download is restricted to doing an
> install on the same range of models (which may also apply to a bootable
> installer created from that downloaded installer, but I haven't tested
> that yet).
>
> Also not yet tested: it should be possible to download El Capitan from
> the above links using a Late 2009 through Early 2011 Mac currently
> running Snow Leopard. The preflight check and installer must be
> different, because the version I got on an older Mac would reject those
> models as incompatible.

Part way through testing: I can confirm that App Store on an Early 2011
MacBook Pro will let me "get" El Capitan while booted into Snow Leopard
(10.6.8) and Lion (10.7.5) using the links above.

An attempt to "get" El Capitan from Mountain Lion (10.8.5) produced the
same error as above, so there is definitely an OS version check
somewhere in the mechanism.

Lion is requesting the preflight script from the same URL as later OS
versions, but the server might be delivering different scripts (and
different installers) depending on the OS version running on the client.
Further investigation in progress.

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[David Empson]

Christian <christi...@ghanart.org> wrote:

> Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:
>
> > Wow. Didn't think my simple question would create such a "lively"
> > discussion. For the record, I live in the good 'ol U.S. of A. For
> > clarity's sake, the MacBook Air is a mid-2011 edition with only 4MB of
> > ram
>
> Sure? Your first post in this discussion said otherwise:
>
> > The laptop is a MacBook Air, 13-inch, Mid 2011, 8GB memory, with 37.9GB
> > of available storage.
>
> There might be a slight difference between 4GB and 8GB... :?:
>
> > so yeah, that's gonna suck but she's not a power user so hopefully
> > the slowness won't be an issue. I will be upgrading to Sierra later on
> > today so I'll let ya'll know how that goes.
>
> As I told you before: It is very unlikely that you can download "Sierra"
> (10.12.x) from Apple, since High Sierra (10.13.x) is out for quite a
> while now.

Apple is still allowing Sierra to be "got" by someone who doesn't have
it, as far as I can with no particular restrictions beyond model
compatibility.

I just started another download of it for testing purposes (using an
Apple ID which never got Sierra before, just to be sure), but aborted
the download as I didn't need another copy.

To get Sierra you need the direct link to its App Store page, because it
is not accessible from the Featured page, nor from a search within App
Store.

This Apple support article explains how to get the Sierra installer and
provides the link to the App Store page:

https://support.apple.com/HT208202

Here is the direct link to the App Store page:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/macos-sierra/id1127487414?ls=1&mt=12


I would not be surprised if Apple pulls the ability to get Sierra soon -
there is no technical reason for it to be available other than
application compatiblity, bugs or stability issues with High Sierra.
Sierra and High Sierra have the same hardware requirements, so there is
no reason for Sierra to remain available indefinitely.

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[Jolly Roger]

On 2018-02-20, Christian <christi...@ghanart.org> wrote:
> Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:
>
>> Wow. Didn't think my simple question would create such a "lively"
>> discussion. For the record, I live in the good 'ol U.S. of A. For
>> clarity's sake, the MacBook Air is a mid-2011 edition with only 4MB of
>> ram
>
> Sure? Your first post in this discussion said otherwise:
>
>> The laptop is a MacBook Air, 13-inch, Mid 2011, 8GB memory, with 37.9GB
>> of available storage.
>
> There might be a slight difference between 4GB and 8GB... :?:

Thank you for pointing that out! I knew I wasn't crazy.

[Otto Pylot]

In article <ff3g94...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger

<jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2018-02-20, Christian <christi...@ghanart.org> wrote:
> > Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Wow. Didn't think my simple question would create such a "lively"
> >> discussion. For the record, I live in the good 'ol U.S. of A. For
> >> clarity's sake, the MacBook Air is a mid-2011 edition with only 4MB of
> >> ram
> >
> > Sure? Your first post in this discussion said otherwise:
> >
> >> The laptop is a MacBook Air, 13-inch, Mid 2011, 8GB memory, with 37.9GB
> >> of available storage.
> >
> > There might be a slight difference between 4GB and 8GB... :?:
>
> Thank you for pointing that out! I knew I wasn't crazy.

I may be the one that's crazy, not you. Sierra downloaded just fine
from Apple (don't know if it was from the Support page or linked to
iTunes from the Support page) and installed with no issues on her 4GB
MacBook Air (mid-2011). So far everything works fine except for the
Canon printer software. For some reason it thinks it's trying to
connect to my MacBook.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2018-02-20, Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:
> In article <ff3g94...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
><jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 2018-02-20, Christian <christi...@ghanart.org> wrote:
>> > Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Wow. Didn't think my simple question would create such a "lively"
>> >> discussion. For the record, I live in the good 'ol U.S. of A. For
>> >> clarity's sake, the MacBook Air is a mid-2011 edition with only
>> >> 4MB of ram
>> >
>> > Sure? Your first post in this discussion said otherwise:
>> >
>> >> The laptop is a MacBook Air, 13-inch, Mid 2011, 8GB memory, with
>> >> 37.9GB of available storage.
>> >
>> > There might be a slight difference between 4GB and 8GB... :?:
>>
>> Thank you for pointing that out! I knew I wasn't crazy.
>
> I may be the one that's crazy, not you. Sierra downloaded just fine
> from Apple (don't know if it was from the Support page or linked to
> iTunes from the Support page) and installed with no issues on her 4GB
> MacBook Air (mid-2011).

When I said I thought upgrading to Sierra was the best course of action,
I did so under the assumption that you had 8GB of RAM. I never said it
wouldn't install.

Modern versions of macOS work best with at least 8GB of RAM installed.
This is because the base operating system and default applications use
enough memory that if you have only 4GB, the OS will end up swapping
more RAM more often to the startup drive because the OS and applications
use more RAM than is physically available.

In the case of a MacBook Air, the startup drive is an SSD that is
soldered onto the motherboard. Using an SSD for swap - especially on a
Mac with insufficient RAM - means the SSD will experience more wear and
tear than otherwise. SSDs have a limited lifetime. Since it's soldered
onto the motherboard on the MacBook Air, this could come back to bite
you when the SSD finally bites the dust, since you can't easily replace
it. You'd have to use an external drive instead when that happens, which
greatly reduces portability.

> So far everything works fine except for the Canon printer software.
> For some reason it thinks it's trying to connect to my MacBook.

Not sure what exactly you mean by "it thinks it's trying to connect to
my MacBook". Did you install and configure the Canon printer software
yourself? How is your printer connected to the MacBook Air (or your
network)? How is it configured? We'd need details like that to help you
with this.

[Lewis]

In message <ff351f...@mid.individual.net> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>> On 2018-02-20 01:14, Your Name wrote:
>>
>>> The blue Download button on that Apple page displays and works as it
>>> should in my copy of Firefox 58.0.2.
>>
>> Interesting. Wonder if it is because I am in Canada.

> “See? Apple hates Canadians. I have irrefutable proof!”

It's not. I had my eldest (in Canada) check the page in Chrome and
Firefox, works fine.

--
WHO KNOWS WHAT EVIL LURKS IN THE HEART OF MEN? The Death of Rats looked
up from the feast of potato. SQUEAK, he said. Death waved a hand
dismissively. WELL, YES, OBVIOUSLY *ME*, he said. I JUST WONDERED IF
THERE WAS ANYONE ELSE. --The Truth

[Otto Pylot]

In article <ff3jr0...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger

Her MacBook Air runs just fine with Sierra and only 4GB of ram. It's a
tad slow but not enough to bother her. She can do everything she did
before so she's a happy camper. I understand about the swapping but
this is an "old" laptop and will be replaced eventually so this will
certainly get her by for now. I'll just backup her laptop a bit more
often than I do now.

The Canon issue was solved by deleting the drivers etc, downloading and
re-installing the drivers. All is well now. She can scan and print
wirelessly as before. I did have a small issue with the Apple ID's but
straightened that out so all is well now.

BTW, the OS X 10.11 installer DVD arrived. There is a small label at
the bottom of the DVD that says "Western New York Computer Repair
Service" if that means anything.

[Jolly Roger]

Yes, it will naturally run more slowly, since it's swapping more. If you
are curious, you can let the computer run normally for a few days (or as
long as possible) without a restart, and then run the "memory_pressure"
terminal command and look at the "File I/O Pageouts" to see how much RAM
is being paged out to disk. If the pageouts number is significantly
higher than the pageins number, it's an indication that the OS and apps
she is running are using more RAM than is physically available. Backing
up regularly is a very good idea. With Time Machine, you just connect an
external drive, set it to use it for backups when prompted, and then
forget about it (as long as you remember to connect the external disk to
the computer on a regular basis).

[David Empson]

I think I have the full story now.

When you click the "Get" button on the El Capitan page, App Store
fetches a preflight package from Apple's servers. The same script is
delivered on all Mac models and all OS versions.

(This mechanism does not apply to re-downloading El Capitan from the
Purchased list.)

App Store runs a script in the package which does model checks: it goes
through the same tests as the El Capitan installer, so your Mac must
meet the system requirements for El Capitan in order to do the download.
You also must be running 10.6.8 or later, and not 10.12 or later.

Here is the interesting bit.

The script run by App Store does an additional test which is NOT part of
the El Capitan installer. The Mac trying to get El Capitan must pass one
of these additional tests:

(a) A 2007-2009 Mac model which is supported by El Capitan but not
supported by later OS versions; or

(b) Any Mac model supported by El Capitan which is currently running Mac
OS X 10.6.8 through 10.7.5.

If your Mac passes either of those tests, the El Capitan installer is
downloaded.

If your Mac is a Late 2009 or newer model currently running OS X 10.8
through 10.11.6, you get the error message saying "OS X 10.11 cannot be
installed on this computer." and the installer is not downloaded.

The problem is just a matter of being able to "get" the installer.

The installer itself does not do those extra tests, and can be used to
install El Capitan on any compatible Mac (or used to make a bootable
installer that will work on any compatible Mac).

Therefore all you need is access to an older Mac to download the El
Capitan installer (or if your Mac is old enough to boot Snow Leopard or
Lion, you can use that).


Side notes:

The preflight package filename implies it is digitally signed, so
intercepting the App Store communication with Apple's servers and
substituting a replacement package might fail.

Given the preflight package and its script are supplied by Apple's
servers, Apple can modify it and probably have done that already, to
allow El Capitan to be downloaded from Lion after the release of High
Sierra (since High Sierra will only install on Mountain Lion or later).

It appears that getting El Capitan from a virtual machine is broken - it
fails no matter which OS X version is running. I suspect this is due to
both (a) and (b) testing for specific models (by model identifier or
board ID).

The El Capitan installer has been updated since 10.11.6 was originally
released. A download now gets what appears to be a version first built
in September 2016 rather than July 2016, based on its build number being
slightly higher than the first security update for 10.11.6. It still
needs the latest security update, and no Macs were introduced around
that time, so there is no particular advantage to using this one rather
than the original release of 10.11.6 (if you kept a copy).

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[Otto Pylot]

In article <1nkl16r.1xbirve139vxbkN%dem...@actrix.gen.nz>, David

David, this is very interesting but a bit beyond my understanding
(pre-flight?) but I'm glad you figured it out. I never was able to dl a
copy of El Capitan, and installed Sierra instead. But I do have the
installer DVD that I alluded to above sitting in my desk drawer now.
Maybe I should open it up just to see what kind of info I can glean
from it (build number, date, whatever).

[David Empson]

Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:

> In article <1nkl16r.1xbirve139vxbkN%dem...@actrix.gen.nz>, David
> Empson <dem...@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
>

[...]

> > I think I have the full story now.
> >
> > When you click the "Get" button on the El Capitan page, App Store
> > fetches a preflight package from Apple's servers. The same script is
> > delivered on all Mac models and all OS versions.
> >
> > (This mechanism does not apply to re-downloading El Capitan from the
> > Purchased list.)
> >
> > App Store runs a script in the package which does model checks: it goes
> > through the same tests as the El Capitan installer, so your Mac must
> > meet the system requirements for El Capitan in order to do the download.
> > You also must be running 10.6.8 or later, and not 10.12 or later.
> >
> > Here is the interesting bit.
> >
> > The script run by App Store does an additional test which is NOT part of
> > the El Capitan installer. The Mac trying to get El Capitan must pass one
> > of these additional tests:
> >
> > (a) A 2007-2009 Mac model which is supported by El Capitan but not
> > supported by later OS versions; or
> >
> > (b) Any Mac model supported by El Capitan which is currently running Mac
> > OS X 10.6.8 through 10.7.5.
> >
> > If your Mac passes either of those tests, the El Capitan installer is
> > downloaded.
> >
> > If your Mac is a Late 2009 or newer model currently running OS X 10.8
> > through 10.11.6, you get the error message saying "OS X 10.11 cannot be
> > installed on this computer." and the installer is not downloaded.

[...]

> David, this is very interesting but a bit beyond my understanding

I posted that mostly for the benefit of those who were wondering about
the technical details and to correct some points from earlier in the
thread (including some of my own, as I was not previously aware that
Apple had restricted the ability to get the El Capitan installer, and I
was working with incomplete information).

The important bit in your case was the explanation of why you were not
able to get El Capitan, which is summarised in the last paragraph I've
left quoted above from my previous post.

> (pre-flight?)

That's what Apple calls it (it is a file with the extension ".pfpkg" -
I'm assuming the "pf" is short for "pre-flight").

A "package" is a file format Apple uses to distribute software, which
among other things contains files to be installed, and scripts which
contain instructions to do tests, present information to the user, pick
the appropriate files, etc.

Before App Store actually downloads the El Capitan installer, it
downloads a package to test whether to allow the main download to
proceed.

The "flight" in this case alludes to the download of the OS: data is "in
flight" when travelling between server and client. A "pre-flight
package" is a package which comes before the "flight" to test whether it
is allowed to "take off".

> but I'm glad you figured it out. I never was able to dl a
> copy of El Capitan, and installed Sierra instead. But I do have the
> installer DVD that I alluded to above sitting in my desk drawer now.
> Maybe I should open it up just to see what kind of info I can glean
> from it (build number, date, whatever).

Assuming that DVD is the standard bootable installer, you should see
nothing on it apart from an "Install OS X El Capitan" application.

There is also a bootable system but it is hidden.

You can easily find the version number by doing a Get Info on the DVD
icon (or if you have opened the window showing the content of the DVD,
click on the empty background of the window so no file is selected, then
use Get Info). Look for the Version field, which will say something like
10.11.6.

The build version is not as easy to locate, and is usually of limited
interest except to rule out odd cases like a model-specific variant. It
can be found if you navigate to this folder:

/Volumes/[name of DVD]/System/Library/CoreServices

e.g. using the Finder "Go to Folder" command or Terminal, then view the
text file SystemVersion.plist and look for this bit:

<key>ProductBuildVersion</key>
<string>15G31</string>

The build version is the second of those lines, between the <string> and
</string> delimiters.

If you had been able to download the El Capitan installer, the current
release is version 10.11.6 with a build version of 15G1011.

The original public releases (courtesy of MacTracker) were:

10.11 15A284 September 30, 2015
10.11.1 15B42 October 21, 2015
10.11.2 15C50 December 8, 2015
10.11.3 15D21 January 19, 2016
10.11.4 15E65 March 21, 2016
10.11.5 15F34 May 16, 2016
10.11.6 15G31 July 18, 2016

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[Lewis]

In message <210220180850361668%ot...@bogus.address.com> Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:
> David, this is very interesting but a bit beyond my understanding
> (pre-flight?) but I'm glad you figured it out. I never was able to dl a
> copy of El Capitan, and installed Sierra instead. But I do have the
> installer DVD that I alluded to above sitting in my desk drawer now.
> Maybe I should open it up just to see what kind of info I can glean
> from it (build number, date, whatever).

I wouldn't trust that disc, and frankly, you do not have the technical
ability to determine if that disc is safe to use.

--
"640K ought to be enough RAM for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981

[Otto Pylot]

In article <slrnp8slcv....@Snow.local>, Lewis

Being as Sierra was successfully installed, I have no use for the disc
so it's just academic curiosity at this point. I agree that I don't
have the technical ability to determine the safety of the installer.

[JF Mezei]

On 2018-02-22 12:15, Otto Pylot wrote:

> Being as Sierra was successfully installed, I have no use for the disc
> so it's just academic curiosity at this point. I agree that I don't
> have the technical ability to determine the safety of the installer.

QUESTION:

With SIP, wouldn't a corrupt installer eventually be detected when you
boot?

[David Empson]

Depends what you mean by "corrupt".

If someone is distributing a dodgy OS installer they could have modified
it in a way where the authentication and verification are disabled or
the results are faked, so it will happily install and the resulting
modified system could work fine, despite various components not being as
Apple distributed them. SIP is meaningless in this scenario.

You need to trust your OS installer.

If it is merely a bad distribution with a damaged install image, I'd
expect the installer to reject it before it installs anything, because
it won't pass the initial test. Alternatively, if something in the OS or
installer app on the DVD is damaged, it might not boot from the install
DVD or the app might not launch.

The secure boot mechanism introduced in the iMac Pro (if enabled) should
provide a degree of additional protection (in future, once there is a
downloadable installer which supports the iMac Pro - at the moment it is
still using custom builds and has not been incorporated into the general
release of High Sierra).

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[Elden]

On 2018-02-19, Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:
> At this point in time I just may upgrade her to Sierra and be done
> with it. Her only objection to that was Quicken 2007 but I understand
> that there are folks running Quicken 2007 under Sierra with no issues,
> or very few issues that doesn't affect the basic features.

The new version of Quicken is much better. Just saying.

--
-=Elden=-

[Steven Petruzzellis]

On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 1:34:40 PM UTC-7, Otto Pylot wrote:
> In article <alpine.OSX.2.21.1...@mako.ath.cx>, David
> Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > On Sunday, 18 February 2018 10:34 -0800,
> > in article <180220181034530621%ot...@bogus.address.com>,

> > Otto Pylot <ot...@bogus.address.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Thought I'd start a fresh post. Having followed David's link
> > > (https://support.apple.com/HT206886) I attempted to download the
> > > installer for El Capitan (10.11.6). When I tried to "Get" the
> > > installer, the dialog box came up with, "We could not complete your

> > > purchase. This version of OS X 10.11 cannot be installed on this
> > > computer".
> >

> > > The laptop is a MacBook Air, 13-inch, Mid 2011, 8GB memory, with 37.9GB

> > > of available storage. The OS is 10.9.5. My gut feeling is that the
> > > 10.11.6 installer still needs the base 10.11 installed, which is what
> > > I'm trying to get. I've got to be doing something wrong I just don't
> > > see it.
> >
> > The link for macOS 10.11 installer is
> > <https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/os-x-el-capitan/id1147835434?mt=12>.
> > Following this link should open the App Store.app, from which you can
> > download the full installer, version 1.7.55. It will download to
> > /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app and appears to be 6.22
> > GB. It shows a creation date of Tuesday, 08 August 2017 at 15:15.
> > This suggests that it will install macOS 10.11.6, but may still
> > require some supplemental updates.
> >
> > This is a full upgrade, not an update. It should upgrade to El
> > Captitan, in place, over the current version of macOS.
> >
> > - --
> > David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com>
> > Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> > iF0EARECAB0WIQSc0FU3XAVGYDjSGUhSvCmZGhLe6wUCWondoQAKCRBSvCmZGhLe
> > 65/0AKCkX8onIboBUN5aKAFs2SyigLkz0wCg3dNt3gjyF46AerZ67HPWE4it3Q0=
> > =lO8e
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> I contacted Apple again and got the same results. They even remoted in
> to the laptop and scratched their heads as to why it wouldn't install.
> The laptop meets all the requirements as far as build, ram, and
> available disk space. The only explanation Apple gave me is that the
> base OS (10.11.0) is no longer available, only the updates (.1 to .6)
> are, so her MB Air can not be updated from 10.9.5 to 10.11.0 because it
> isn't running base El Capitan. I'll try the other link posted above but
> it it is the 10.11.6 installer, it might not work.
>
> Another thought is could it be her Apple ID? Even tho the laptop was
> originally registered to me, I gave it to her and all I did was change
> my Apple ID to her's and made her the Admin. Should I login to the
> Apple Store as me, on her laptop, and try again? This is becoming more
> of a challenge at this point in time than a necessity. Thanks for all
> of the help and guidance so far.

>
> --
> Deja Moo: I've seen this bullshit before.

Autumn Elizabeth Nissen shows this is an insomniac troll writing because some of them are direct responses in very specific ways which proves they are a response, so not from a computer auto-generator. IOW, while some could be automated others are definitely not.

The guy is as popular as a wet dog at a parlor social -- and with good cause.

Doc O'Leary reported Autumn Elizabeth Nissen years ago. As expected, it did naught to attenuate the imbecile.

Doc O'Leary and Autumn Elizabeth Nissen had their failures and their awkward moments. One presented it off as someone else's mistake and didn't do anything too publicly that could not be proved mathematically. Autumn Elizabeth Nissen is the result of the fact that Marxists have been ordered to be in charge of schooling our youth. It's not a coincidence that he is a harebrained communist. You can say I am Autumn Elizabeth Nissen for all I care.

He'd have to be afflicted with Alzheimers to be unsure of whether or not he "never had" purchased a website. Gee, who could it be? When Autumn Elizabeth Nissen can not be consistent with his story and makes use of fake, self-esteem protecting nonsense later, it's rather undeniable what his game is.



--
My Snoring Solution!
https://youtu.be/iztSc_msHuo
Jonas Eklundh Communication AB

[Steven Petruzzellis]

Hint: You won't go into a gathering, guzzle all the firewater, rape all the children, heist the silverware and hurl in the loo without being observed. I believe we have two different beliefs completely. It was Satan who got busted using dozens of accounts like a moron, and these are 'people' who come out of the blue immediately into threads where he was being proved wrong... continuously for over a decade.

--
I Left My Husband & Daughter At Home And THIS happened!
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/6sfhq6/what_desktop_tasks_does_linux_handle_better_than/
https://youtu.be/IhOfBmWwCVY
Jonas Eklundh Communication

[Steven Petruzzellis]

I am a complete fan of Unity, because that's where all the stimulating UI updates are happening.

You do, of course realize that the massive floods ending up in multiple groups started out as a joke about hacking Google.

HA! These morons get their jollies out of provoking emotional replies to their insults, which is the very definition of a troll.

Unlike the intelligent people in this group, Autumn Nissen relies on false news to concoct his beliefs on subjects. As a result, he only knows and consents to the government reports which also happens to be the ones which describe using evidence in positive and reasonable view. I'm getting more posts hidden then show. I'm guessing the small-minded whackadoodle is proving the advocates right again. Yawn. Same old brain-dead trolls.

Please show an example of a prosperous business that has gained its wealth by not focusing on its clients or wares.

Many people continue responding to Autumn Nissen. To be clear, I can't criticize Adam LeMond for his animosity but I can not explain why he writes here other than to mess with Autumn Nissen. Adam LeMond is focused on discussions as is common in a formal forum and support newsgroups simply will never work for him.



--
"You'll notice how quickly he loses interest when everything is about him. He clearly wants the attention"
Steve Carroll, making the dumbest comment ever uttered.