Arlo's Leaving Apple...

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Arlo Rose

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Sep 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/18/97
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So to all who have followed my posts and listened to my advice, I regret
that I must announce I will be parting company with Apple on the 30th of
this month. Steve Jobs has decided that the Human Interface department as
it stands isn't vital to Apple's future.

I was given the choice between joining the QuickTime team or leaving
Apple, so I chose the latter.

While I may no longer be in a position to define the future of the Mac OS,
I hope to do one better than that. I think that many of you will be happy
with the direction I'm about to take, and will announce something very
interesting in the next few weeks.

Best to you all.


Cheers,
Arlo Rose

Who want's a
network computer anyway?
_____________________________________________________________________
Apple Computer, Inc. ar...@rcontinuum.com
Human Interface Design Center ro...@apple.com

JimDElder

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Sep 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/19/97
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In article <arlo-18099...@arlo.vip.best.com>, ar...@rcontinuum.com
(Arlo Rose) wrote:

| Steve Jobs has decided that the Human Interface department as
| it stands isn't vital to Apple's future.
|

(snip)

| Cheers,
| Arlo Rose

Why am I not surprised! Why would Jobs need humans much less to interface
with them?!!

Arlo, thank you soooo! much for all you've done for us.

Bon Vogeee! Arlo - best of luck. *You'll* be OK!

Don't know about "His Immenseness"!! ;-)

Warm Fuzzies From Golden Pond, Jim

--
JimDElder (AKA Jim Pearson) Retired on Golden Pond in Raleigh, NC
(Header address is for the SPAMMASTERS. Please remove "not" to reply)

Bri Gipson

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Sep 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/19/97
to ar...@rcontinuum.com, bgi...@wsp1.wspice.com

Do you mean that you hope to define the future of a better OS?
Are you moving in with Be?

I'm interested in hearing about your future plans.

-Bri Gipson
bgi...@wsp1.wspice.com

-------------------------------

Arlo Rose wrote:

> [SNIP]


> I was given the choice between joining the QuickTime team or leaving
> Apple, so I chose the latter.
>
> While I may no longer be in a position to define the future of the Mac OS,
> I hope to do one better than that. I think that many of you will be happy
> with the direction I'm about to take, and will announce something very
> interesting in the next few weeks.
>

> [SNIP]


Dan Caugherty

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Sep 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/19/97
to

Arlo Rose wrote:
>
(snip)

> While I may no longer be in a position to define the future of the Mac OS,
> I hope to do one better than that. I think that many of you will be happy
> with the direction I'm about to take, and will announce something very
> interesting in the next few weeks.
>
> Best to you all.

Good luck, Arlo. We await your re-emergence with baited breath.

And.. thanks for listening. It made a difference.
(Mr. Jobs, did you catch that?)

Regards,
+-------------...@poodle.nortel.ca------------------------+
| Dan Caugherty | All opinions herein are MINE only.|
| Member of Sci. Staff, Irritant,| Remove dog from address to reply. |
| and Collector of Spare Change | |
+-------------...@poodle.nortel.ca------------------------+

Paul Lindblad

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Sep 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/19/97
to

On Fri, Sep 19, 1997 10:11 AM, Dan Caugherty
<mailto:dca...@poodle.nortel.ca> wrote:
:Jobs, did you catch that?

More killing stuff from the Interim Apple hunter who self-ordained
specialty is sucking the life from Macintosh to the enth.

Arlo, Mac OS 8 sings!

Look for you here real soon.

Paul Lindblad <mailto:sear...@concentric.net>
- ------------------------------
Mac + Windows = 100%
- Steve Jobs, Reality Distortion Field

Education + Content Creation = OpenDoc
- Brad Hutchings, Component X
- ---------------------------------------


Jack Howarth

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Sep 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/19/97
to

In article <B048614...@206.173.240.224>, "Paul Lindblad"
<sear...@concentric.net> wrote:

The fact that Jobs eliminated the Human Interface group itself isn't
necessarily such a bad thing. I suspect it is in line with his elimination
of the Q&A group as well. He wants those functions to be integrated into
the development groups themselves. That in itself is not unreasonable.
Consider what the original Mac might have been like if the programmers had
to communicate between separate divisions on issues like Q&A or interface
design. Those functions should be common to all divisions.
Jack

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack W. Howarth, Ph.D. 231 Bethesda Avenue
NMR Facility Director Cincinnati, Ohio 45267-0524
Dept. of Molecular Genetics phone: (513) 558-4420
Univ. of Cincinnati College of Medicine fax: (513) 558-8474

Eli Goldberg

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Sep 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/19/97
to

In article <howarth-1909...@dilbert.med.uc.edu>,
how...@nitro.med.uc.edu (Jack Howarth) wrote:

> The fact that Jobs eliminated the Human Interface group itself isn't
> necessarily such a bad thing. I suspect it is in line with his elimination
> of the Q&A group as well. He wants those functions to be integrated into
> the development groups themselves. That in itself is not unreasonable.
> Consider what the original Mac might have been like if the programmers had
> to communicate between separate divisions on issues like Q&A or interface
> design. Those functions should be common to all divisions.
> Jack

Umm...I think I'm going to get tactless here for a few paragraphs, since
Arlo would probably be too polite to comment on any of this and I'm feeling
pissy. ;)

Jack, there's really no organizational parallels between Mike Connors'
former organization and the means in which HIDC functions. Integration
Quality was a centralized group which was sufficiently disconnected from
the development teams that their ability to effectively test was definitely
compromised, yes.

As anyone who worked in QA at Apple would tell you, IQ also tended to hire
minimally skilled people with minimal experience as contractors, pay them
very little by Silicon Valley standards, treat them poorly, measure them
based on the sheer number of bugs they wrote up (regardless of whether they
were useful or not), and not to do a hell of a lot to grow their skill
sets; quite simply, many of the people they employed were easily replacable
by other junior testers, since they tended to get the hell out as soon as
they grew their skill sets.

HIDC, however, assigned its people to a specific group, e.g. Arlo was
assigned to Mac OS Experience as an HI lead. Vaguely like the Psi Corps in
Babylon 5. ;) In Arlo's case, he wasn't in a separate building from the OS
team, or even a separate hallway. In other words, the organizational
structure that you feel should be in place not only is in place, but has
been in place for years.

The fact that the HI group is being whacked down severely does not simply
mean that these individuals are being redeployed or relocated. They are
being eliminated. Apple will not be able to hire competent people back to
replace them in the current Silicon Valley job climate. Especially not at
the Arlo level of competence, who I can say pretty confidently was one of
Apple's three best HI people, if not their best --- at least, not for under
$250 per hour as consultants; the
artist-programmer-designer-psychologist-Macintosh maniac skill set is
exquisitely rare.

Taking your point into consideration, consider what the original Mac would
have been like if they laid off a sizeable portion of its QA staff in the
middle (as happened in March on OS 8, and MacWEEK reports will happen
again), and subsequently laid off Susan Kare (but gave her the chance to
work on Apple 2 GS instead of leaving. ;) A complete and utter mess.

Which is what Allegro will probably end up being like, thanks to Mr. Jobs.

--- Eli
Former Appearance 1.0 QA Weenie

No Ph.Ds...just first-hand experience...
...and a fairly pissy attitude at the moment since he's having to learn
Windows NT to get a real job, and would much rather be working on a Mac. ;)

> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jack W. Howarth, Ph.D. 231 Bethesda Avenue
> NMR Facility Director Cincinnati, Ohio 45267-0524
> Dept. of Molecular Genetics phone: (513) 558-4420
> Univ. of Cincinnati College of Medicine fax: (513) 558-8474

--
# To get random business decisions put Steve Jobs in your
# "Board of Directors" folder.

Elena Sanchez

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Sep 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/20/97
to

Arlo Rose (ar...@rcontinuum.com) wrote:
: So to all who have followed my posts and listened to my advice, I regret

: that I must announce I will be parting company with Apple on the 30th of
: this month. Steve Jobs has decided that the Human Interface department as

: it stands isn't vital to Apple's future.

: I was given the choice between joining the QuickTime team or leaving


: Apple, so I chose the latter.

: While I may no longer be in a position to define the future of the Mac OS,


: I hope to do one better than that. I think that many of you will be happy
: with the direction I'm about to take, and will announce something very
: interesting in the next few weeks.

: Best to you all.


: Cheers,
: Arlo Rose

: Who want's a
: network computer anyway?
: _____________________________________________________________________
: Apple Computer, Inc. ar...@rcontinuum.com
: Human Interface Design Center ro...@apple.com

Come on Arlo, a jokes a joke.

And that stuff about Steve Jobs doing the deciding about
what is what at Apple strains your credibility.

Next thing you know you will tell us that all the clone
makers are finished and Bill Gates is a major stockholder of
Apple.

Sheesh, give us a break.

(Good luck A/Rose)

Cathy Stevenson

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Sep 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/20/97
to ar...@rcontinuum.com

ar...@rcontinuum.com (Arlo Rose) wrote:
>So to all who have followed my posts and listened to my advice, I regret
>that I must announce I will be parting company with Apple on the 30th of
>this month. Steve Jobs has decided that the Human Interface department as
>it stands isn't vital to Apple's future.

I, for one, and I think many would agree with me, really
appreciate your input for the benefit of all of us *and*
for the benefit of Apple. I am very sorry you are leaving
Apple, but I hope you will continue to be a part of the
Mac newsgroups and what they represent about the mutual
helpfulness of Mac owners.

Human Interface can't possible be important to a man
who would write the letter that Jobs wrote to Ric Ford,
probably the best (unpaid or paid) PR man Apple has ever
had.

Good luck, Arlo.

And, no, I certainly don't want a network computer.

Cathy

"there's a dance or two in the old dame yet"- mehitabel

cats1921@bestDOTcom
cstevenson, M.D.

Joe Renzetti

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Sep 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/20/97
to

In article <JimDElder-ya024080...@news.mindspring.com>,

Sorry to hear your leaving, and on my birthday too ;-)
So what's the future with human interface? Does this mean the Themes
manager that
was to be released is now cancelled?

Oh, well. you'll be missed Arlo.

--
"The most importanat message is you can do it yourself"
-Brian Eno

John Haywood

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Sep 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/23/97
to

Arlo Rose <ar...@rcontinuum.com> wrote:

> So to all who have followed my posts and listened to my advice, I regret
> that I must announce I will be parting company with Apple on the 30th of
> this month. Steve Jobs has decided that the Human Interface department as
> it stands isn't vital to Apple's future.

Thank you for all the informative (and sometimes cutting) posts - you
have certainly made the transition to OS8 an easy and pleasant
experience for me. I wish you luck in your next venture, and hope it
affects us all in the same way as the interface in front of me now!!

cheers

--
John Haywood
Macquarie University, Sydney

Miguel Arroz

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Sep 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/26/97
to

Elena Sanchez <ESAN...@tiny.computing.csbsju.edu> wrote:

> Come on Arlo, a jokes a joke.

I hope you're right!

Miguel

--
Miguel Barreto da Silva Arroz - Carnaxide, Portugal - ar...@ip.pt

www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/3232 - How to put your Mac on the Net
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/3232/softpage.html - SoftPage

Miguel Arroz

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Sep 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/26/97
to

Arlo Rose <ar...@rcontinuum.com> wrote:

> this month. Steve Jobs has decided that the Human Interface department as
> it stands isn't vital to Apple's future.

WAIT A MINUTE! HI is not vital for Apple? The guy made a machine that
made a revolution bacause of the interface, and now he says it's not
vital?

Jobs is REALLY crazy.

Sorry about you, Arlo! Hope you find a good job.

Yours
Miguel Arroz

Simon Slavin

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Sep 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/28/97
to

In article <1997092622...@pm-1-04.miraflores.ip.pt>,
ar...@ip.pt (Miguel Arroz) wrote:

> Arlo Rose <ar...@rcontinuum.com> wrote:
>
> > this month. Steve Jobs has decided that the Human Interface department as
> > it stands isn't vital to Apple's future.
>
> WAIT A MINUTE! HI is not vital for Apple? The guy made a machine that
> made a revolution bacause of the interface, and now he says it's not
> vital?

You're getting a slightly incorrect view of the matter. At some
point Apple had a particular group of people who worked to define
and improve the UI for all Apple software. It would appear that
a decision has been made that the UI design should be rolled-into
the design team for each piece of software.

I would imagine that this might reduce friction between groups.
("Who are you to tell me how my software should look to the user !")

Nevertheless I'm sorry to see that Arlo is leaving Apple and hope
that he finds a comparable or better job working with Macintosh-
related software.

Simon.
--
Simon Slavin -- Computer Contractor. | Where were you when the paper was
http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk | blank, slimeball?
Check email address for spam-guard. | -- Terry Pratchett <tpratchett
Junk email not welcome at this site. | @unseen.demon.co.uk>

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