Re: V14.8 released!

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Robin Goodfellow

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Sep 15, 2021, 12:26:15 AMSep 15
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sms <scharf...@geemail.com> asked
> However it is true, that as a percentage of sales, Apple's expenditures
> on R&D are small (7%), compared 13.0% for Nicrosoft, 15.1% for Google,
> and 21.0% for Facebook.

The apologists are ignorant of facts - but adults need to be aware of them.

Just to be clear on facts, it's not "just an R&D percentage" Apple lacks.
a. Samsung spends FOUR TIMES the number of dollars in R&D than does Apple!
b. Microsoft spends TWO AND A HALF TIMES the R&D dollars than does Apple!
c. Google spends TWICE the R&D dollars than Apple spends in R&D costs!
<https://money.cnn.com/2013/11/20/technology/mobile/apple-rd-spend/>

So it's not just that Apple spends far less than anyone in high tech in R&D
in just percentage (whereas Apple spends likely far more in MARKETING than
anyone - as that's what Apple is - Apple is all marketing & almost no R&D).

Even the _total dollars_ spent by Apple on R&D historically pales in
comparison to similar high tech companies (even far smaller companies!).

The apologists are ignorant of facts - but you need to be aware of them.
--
GRAPHS:
*Apple spends way less than Microsoft on R&D*
<https://money.cnn.com/2013/11/20/technology/mobile/apple-rd-spend/>
*Apple R&D spend % versus five "similar" tech companies*
<https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/22343-26888-comparisonpercentagerdofrev2relabel-l.jpg>
*Five "similar" tech companies' revenue & R&D costs compared for one year*
<https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/22343-26885-07-comparisonrevrdcostsrelabel-l.jpg>
*Apple R&D % change over the years*
<https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/22343-26884-06-yoychangeinrdannualcosts-l.jpg>
*Apple net income versus operating income & R&D costs over the years*
<https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/22343-26881-01-annualnetincomeopincomerdc-l.jpg>
*Apple annual net sales, operating income, & R&D costs over the years*
<https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/22343-26882-02-annualnetsalesopincrdcosts-l.jpg>

CITES:
*Apple's R&D spending hits bottom as percentage of revenue*
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/apples-r-d-spending-hits-bottom-as-percentage-of-revenue/>
*Apple Is Spending Dramatically Below Peers on Innovation*
<https://www.barrons.com/articles/apple-innovation-research-development-acquisitions-cash-flow-buybacks-51597786424>
*Apple R&D spending is anemic compared to rivals' big budgets*
<https://www.cultofmac.com/720505/apple-rd-spending-2020-compared-to-google-microsoft/>
*Apple spends less on research & development than they advertise*
<https://www.ibtimes.com/why-apple-inc-spends-less-research-development-you-think-1954667>
*Apple is a cheapskate when it comes to R&D*
<https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2016/02/26/apple-cheapskate-when-comes-rd/80987938/>
*Analysts Criticize Apple Over Low R&D Spend*
<https://www.pymnts.com/apple/2018/apple-spend-more-rd/>
*Apple's R&D spending hits a low*
<https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/apples-randd-spending-hits-a-low-2011-10/>
*Is Apple Underinvesting in R&D?*
<https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/12/is-apple-underinvesting-in-rd-what-steve-jobs-woul.aspx>
*Apple spends way less than Microsoft on R&D*
<https://money.cnn.com/2013/11/20/technology/mobile/apple-rd-spend/index.html
*Why Apple Inc. Spends Less On Research And Development Than You Think*
<https://www.ibtimes.com/why-apple-inc-spends-less-research-development-you-think-1954667>
*Apple Research and Development Expenses by Year*
<https://dazeinfo.com/2019/09/27/apple-research-and-development-expenses-by-year-graphfarm/>
*Top Ten R&D spenders*
<https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/business/521302-2018-02/>
*Apple, Inc. R&D: Too Little?*
<https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/12/01/apple-inc-rd-too-little-or-just-right.aspx>
*Qualcomm Should Be Scared of These 2 Words That Apple Just Uttered*
<https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/05/05/qualcomm-should-be-scared-of-these-2-words-that-ap.aspx>
*Apple R&D spending is "efficient" versus its competitors*
<https://appleinsider.com/articles/17/08/09/though-apples-rd-spending-is-massive-its-still-more-efficient-than-all-other-competitors>
etc.
--
Nobody in high tech spends LESS than Apple in R&D nor more in Marketing!

Robin Goodfellow

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Sep 15, 2021, 12:39:58 AMSep 15
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Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> asked
> anyone who has worked professionally in the software
> development business will agree that any large software organization has
> a large backlog of bugs, and will also agree that the number of bugs on
> the backlog is relatively unimportant compared to how well truly
> critical bugs are triaged.

Hi Jolly Roger,

I'm going to treat you, in this response, as if you're an adult (just like I
treat Steve, badgolferman, JF Mezei, and Ant as adults).

Adults can comprehend the facts.
Adults can integrate nuance of facts into their belief systems.

Therefore, as someone who successfully worked in Silicon Valley startups for
decades, I will assume, for a moment, that your brain is that of an adult.

In the companies I worked for, when a bug was found, not only was that bug
fixed, but we always implemented procedures to check for that same bug in
_every_ subsequent release of code. It's what good companies do.

This bug, as you must be aware of by now, is a _repeat_ of a previous bug,
and this isn't even the first time Apple has let an existing bug repeat.

The fact is that Google proved beyond a doubt that entire huge sections of
Apple code have had _zero QA_ in years, Jolly Roger.

What you apologists are ignorant of is Apple doesn't test their code base.

Apple lets the user do the testing and the fact remains that Apple _never_
finds these zero-click zero-day holes - they're always found by others.

In a word, Apple doesn't give a shit about their code quality.
It's sufficient (for their customer base) to just paint walls with slogans.
--
Of all high tech companies, Apple is all marketing and almost zero R&D.

Robin Goodfellow

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Sep 15, 2021, 12:53:03 AMSep 15
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Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> asked
> Yup. What matters is how bugs are categorized, and whether the most
> critical ones are patched quickly.

No.

*Stop sending us Apple bugs, we have enough already*
<https://www.cyberscoop.com/ios-zero-day-zerodium-high-supply/>

The fact is all Apple operating systems are so horribly insecure, hackers
stopped accepting zero-click zero-day holes - there are so many out there!

And it's _never_ Apple who finds all these horrible holes in Apple products!
*Google Reveals BuggyCow, a new MacOS Zero-Day Vulnerability*
<https://www.wired.com/story/google-project-zero-buggycow-macos-zero-day/>

Apple spends their money not on QA, but on painting slogans on buildings.
Apple is all MARKETING (& almost zero R&D compared to high tech companies).

What matters is that the zero-click zero-day holes don't exist in the wild
for months and even for years without Apple having any clue whatsoever that
these zero-day zero-click security hole exists in _all_ their operating
systems.
a. These zero-day zero-click holes exist in the watch operating system
b. They exist right now in the mobile device (iPhone & iPad)
c. They exist at this very moment on all the macOS operating systems

Why?

*Because Apple doesn't give a shit about testing code for security holes.*
This has been shown time and time again by the published facts extent.

You don't make those ungodly profits without spending all your money on
ADVERTISING that the stuff is secure (without it actually being secure).

Apple has _entire huge swatches_ of code completely untested for years!

This was proved beyond a doubt (multiple times!) by security researchers
(Google being paramount in that effort).
--
Nobody in high tech spends less on R&D & more in MARKETING than Apple.

Robin Goodfellow

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Sep 15, 2021, 3:50:49 PMSep 15
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Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> asked
>> Yes. Apple lies in many areas.
>
> You were asked for specific examples.

I gave specific examples - but you apologists are _ignorant_ of all facts
about Apple that show what Apple really is (and not what you errantly
believed Apple to be).

See the sig for those specific example (there are plenty more).

>> Apple has zero credibility anymore after this disaster with the
>> CSAM-backdoor.
>
> Oh really? What part of that was a lie? Be specific.

Apple _never_ tells the truth, Lewis.
For example, do you really believe Apple put cheap battery components in all
the iPhones for increased battery life? Do you believe Apple _removed_ the
standard charger-in-the-box for the "environment" Lewis?

If you do believe that - then it just proves how ignorant you really are.

As with Apple's "white lies" on batteries and chargers, there's something
fishy that _all_ intelligent adults have noticed with the CSAM debacle.

In the case of CSAM, Apple's logic doesn't add up to scrutiny.
There are zero adults who believe what Apple "said" was the reason.

It's only the apologists who ignorantly believe every word from Apple.

We intelligent adults don't know what Apple is _really_ up to; but it's
clear that their failed attempt to pull the wool over our eyes has more to
the back story than what Apple claimed in their "White Lies" paper.
--
Proof Apple lies is Apple admitted to the criminal offense of purposefully
and intentionally secretly throttling & then backdating the release notes
(and then lying about that too) where Apple paid the criminal fine.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724
https://www.newsweek.com/apple-fined-12-million-dollars-waterproof-claim-iphone-warranty-european-penalties-1551138
https://www.smh.com.au/technology/apple-fined-41-million-for-secretly-slowing-old-iphones-20200210-p53z9n.html
https://sfist.com/2020/02/07/apple-fined-in-the-eu-for-purposely-slowing-down-older-iphones/

*Apple significantly overstates iPhone battery life*
<https://press.which.co.uk/whichpressreleases/apple-significantly-overstates-iphone-battery-life-compared-to-which-tests/>
*Apple significantly overstates iPhone battery life*
<https://betanews.com/2019/05/03/apple-significantly-overstates-iphone-battery-life/>
*iPhone battery life is half of what Apple claims it is*
<https://tech.co/news/iphone-xr-battery-life-claims-2019-05>
*Phone battery life significantly overstated by Apple*
<https://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/iphone-battery-life-significantly-overstated-14992961>
*Apple Is Vastly Exaggerating iPhone Battery Life Claims*
<https://hothardware.com/news/apple-overselling-iphone-battery-life-uk-advocacy-group>

Robin Goodfellow

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Sep 15, 2021, 4:04:26 PMSep 15
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Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> asked
> 227 outstanding CVE records for Outlook. Some from 1999 and many are
> "remote execution".
> https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=Outlook

It's telling these apologists like Chris blame Microsoft for Apple bugs.

Why does _nobody_ on the Outlook/Microsoft group blame Apple for their bugs?

What's so _different_ about apologists that it's never Apple's fault that
Apple hasn't tested huge swaths of their code in years (proven by Google).
--
Apologists are ignorant in that they believe what Apple paints on walls.

Alan Baker

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Sep 15, 2021, 5:36:26 PMSep 15
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On 2021-09-15 12:50 p.m., Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> asked
>>> Yes. Apple lies in many areas.
>>
>> You were asked for specific examples.
>
> I gave specific examples - but you apologists are _ignorant_ of all facts
> about Apple that show what Apple really is (and not what you errantly
> believed Apple to be).
>
> See the sig for those specific example (there are plenty more).
>
>>> Apple has zero credibility anymore after this disaster with the
>>> CSAM-backdoor.
>>
>> Oh really? What part of that was a lie? Be specific.
>
> Apple _never_ tells the truth, Lewis.

That is no answer for the question he asked.

> For example, do you really believe Apple put cheap battery components in all
> the iPhones for increased battery life? Do you believe Apple _removed_ the
> standard charger-in-the-box for the "environment" Lewis?

That is no answer for the question he asked.

>
> If you do believe that - then it just proves how ignorant you really are.

That is no answer for the question he asked.

> As with Apple's "white lies" on batteries and chargers, there's something
> fishy that _all_ intelligent adults have noticed with the CSAM debacle.

That is no answer for the question he asked.

> In the case of CSAM, Apple's logic doesn't add up to scrutiny.
> There are zero adults who believe what Apple "said" was the reason.

That is no answer for the question he asked.

> It's only the apologists who ignorantly believe every word from Apple.

That is no answer for the question he asked.

> We intelligent adults don't know what Apple is _really_ up to; but it's
> clear that their failed attempt to pull the wool over our eyes has more to
> the back story than what Apple claimed in their "White Lies" paper.

That is no answer for the question he asked.

Why not actually answer his question?

Alan Baker

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Sep 15, 2021, 5:37:41 PMSep 15
to
On 2021-09-15 1:04 p.m., Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> asked
>> 227 outstanding CVE records for Outlook. Some from 1999 and many are
>> "remote execution".
>> https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=Outlook
>
> It's telling these apologists like Chris blame Microsoft for Apple bugs.

How is pointing out that bugs are a common problem for many different
tech companies blaming any of them?

>
> Why does _nobody_ on the Outlook/Microsoft group blame Apple for their bugs?

Straw man.

>
> What's so _different_ about apologists that it's never Apple's fault that
> Apple hasn't tested huge swaths of their code in years (proven by Google).

Literally no one has ever said that.

And do you think Google is as forthcoming about its own bugs?

Chris

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Sep 16, 2021, 4:33:51 AMSep 16
to
On 15/09/2021 22:37, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-09-15 1:04 p.m., Robin Goodfellow wrote:
>> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> asked
>>> 227 outstanding CVE records for Outlook. Some from 1999 and many are
>>> "remote execution".
>>> https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=Outlook
>>
>> It's telling these apologists like Chris blame Microsoft for Apple bugs.
>
> How is pointing out that bugs are a common problem for many different
> tech companies blaming any of them?

Exactly!

For reference:
Apple Mail: 89
https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=Apple+Mail

Safari: 1302
https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=Safari

Internet Explorer: 2057
https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=Internet+Explorer

Microsoft Edge: 650
https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=Microsoft+Edge

Chrome: 2806
https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=Chrome

Firefox: 2740
https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=Firefox

Further evidence that bugs and security vulnerabilities are commonplace.
Apple, Google, Microsoft, Mozilla, etc all have them in perfectly good
(IE excepted ;)), useable and professional software.

But the resident troll doesn't like facts. He prefers name-calling, bias
and opinion.

>>
>> Why does _nobody_ on the Outlook/Microsoft group blame Apple for their
>> bugs?
>
> Straw man.

And ludicrous.

Robin Goodfellow

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Sep 16, 2021, 1:00:39 PMSep 16
to
Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> asked
> Further evidence that bugs and security vulnerabilities are commonplace.
> Apple, Google, Microsoft, Mozilla, etc all have them in perfectly good
> (IE excepted ;)), useable and professional software.

Why is it that _only_ on the Apple newsgroups people blame everyone but
Apple for the bugs that Apple themselves put into their own Apple code?

I know why... but do the apologists realize they prove me right every time?
*Why do you think adult OS newsgroups _never_ blame Apple for their bugs?*

HINT:
a. Apple is actually no better than any other operating system;
b. And, in fact, Apple is far worse in that iOS has _never_ been tested;
c. But the apologists _believe_ (sans any facts) that Apple is better.

Yet... and this is key... the apologists _know_ Apple spends _less_ in R&D
than any other high tech company - where Apple spends it all in marketing!

Apple only _markets_ itself as being more secure.
And yet, it's not.

Apple's sordid record on zero-day zero-click bugs speaks for itself.

So _every_ time Apple is no better than anyone else, the apologists prove
they _know_ this, by comparing Apple's sordid record to that of everyone.

Alan Baker

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Sep 16, 2021, 1:13:36 PMSep 16
to
On 2021-09-16 10:00 a.m., Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> asked
>> Further evidence that bugs and security vulnerabilities are commonplace.
>> Apple, Google, Microsoft, Mozilla, etc all have them in perfectly good
>> (IE excepted ;)), useable and professional software.
>
> Why is it that _only_ on the Apple newsgroups people blame everyone but
> Apple for the bugs that Apple themselves put into their own Apple code?

You're lying every time you claim that has happened.

Chris

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Sep 16, 2021, 2:16:36 PMSep 16
to
Robin Goodfellow <Ancient...@Heaven.Net> wrote:
> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> asked
>> Further evidence that bugs and security vulnerabilities are commonplace.
>> Apple, Google, Microsoft, Mozilla, etc all have them in perfectly good
>> (IE excepted ;)), useable and professional software.
>
> Why is it that _only_ on the Apple newsgroups people blame everyone but
> Apple for the bugs that Apple themselves put into their own Apple code?

Because the other newsgroups aren't polluted with people like you who lie
and spoil for a fight.

Actually they are, but only you have this Apple fixation.

Robin Goodfellow

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Sep 16, 2021, 6:23:53 PMSep 16
to
Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> asked
> Because the other newsgroups aren't polluted with people like you who lie
> and spoil for a fight.

Funny, I am on and have been on for decades all the adult operating system
newsgroups, including Linux, Windows, and Android newsgroups.

It's only the apologists on the child-like Apple newsgroups who constantly
blame everyone but Apple for the software flaws in Apple operating systems.

a. Nobody on the Windows newsgroup blames Apple for Microsoft flaws.
b. Nobody on the Android newsgroup blames Apple for Google's flaws.
c. Nobody on the Linux newsgroup blames Apple for Canonical's flaws.

It's only on the childish Apple newsgroup that you apologists constantly and
repeatedly blame everyone but Apple for the many flaws in Apple's software.
--
Apologists mirror Apple in blaming everyone but Apple for Apple's own flaws.

Alan Baker

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Sep 16, 2021, 6:50:24 PMSep 16
to
On 2021-09-16 3:23 p.m., Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> asked
>> Because the other newsgroups aren't polluted with people like you who lie
>> and spoil for a fight.
>
> Funny, I am on and have been on for decades all the adult operating system
> newsgroups, including Linux, Windows, and Android newsgroups.
>
> It's only the apologists on the child-like Apple newsgroups who constantly
> blame everyone but Apple for the software flaws in Apple operating systems.

You're just lying.

>
> a. Nobody on the Windows newsgroup blames Apple for Microsoft flaws.

A straw man, because nobody on Apple newsgroups does the converse.

> b. Nobody on the Android newsgroup blames Apple for Google's flaws.

A straw man, because nobody on Apple newsgroups does the converse.

> c. Nobody on the Linux newsgroup blames Apple for Canonical's flaws.

A straw man, because nobody on Apple newsgroups does the converse.

> It's only on the childish Apple newsgroup that you apologists constantly and
> repeatedly blame everyone but Apple for the many flaws in Apple's software.

Pointing out that all technology companies have flaws is not blaming anyone.

Robin Goodfellow

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Sep 16, 2021, 9:58:06 PMSep 16
to
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked
>> It's telling how the apologists always claim Apple is as bad as Facebook
>> and Google are (and, in this case, far worse).
>
> that's quite the twist.

No, nospam,
It's far too deep for you to comprehend...
Adults should note how prescient my words are below about the apologists...

What's important to note is I've studied the strange apologists for years.
As you know, they only have 7 responses to facts they _hate_ about Apple.

One of those 7 is *apologists _blame anyone but Apple_ for Apple's flaws*.
What the apologists are constantly saying, in effect is:

a. We apologists desperately want to believe Apple's advertisements.
b. But we apologists _hate_ that Apple is _never_ what they claim to be.
c. Hence, we _blame_ everyone but Apple for what Apple turns out to be

Because...
d. *We apologists _hate_ that Apple is no better than Facebook*
Google, Samsung, Microsoft, Amazon, Motorola, etc.
--
Apologists seem to realize they only have 7 responses to facts they hate.

Robin Goodfellow

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Sep 16, 2021, 11:16:35 PMSep 16
to
Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> asked
> Lies are all you have, loser.

Apple apologists have only 7 responses to facts they _hate_ about Apple.

Without ever having earned his high school GED, Jolly Roger boldly claims to
know far more than the entire world does about Apple's recent begging to
governments and hackers to please don't look at Apple's code base.

For sure, Apple never even _once_ tested their iOS code, as proven below...

*A very deep dive into many new iOS Exploit chains found in the wild*
<https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2019/08/a-very-deep-dive-into-ios-exploit.html>

*Google published details on seven more in-the-wild zero-day iOS exploits*
<https://www.itnews.com.au/news/threat-actor-went-through-11-zero-days-in-a-year-562346>

*Google Finds MORE Zero-Day Vulnerabilities in the untested iOS code base*
<https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/285505-google-finds-two-zero-day-vulnerabilities-in-ios>
--
Apple profits are huge based on a formula of low R&D and high Marketing!

Chris

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Sep 17, 2021, 2:50:14 AMSep 17
to
Robin Goodfellow <Ancient...@Heaven.Net> wrote:
> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> asked
>> Because the other newsgroups aren't polluted with people like you who lie
>> and spoil for a fight.
>
> Funny, I am on and have been on for decades all the adult operating system
> newsgroups, including Linux, Windows, and Android newsgroups.

I didn't realise operating systems came with age ratings. Which OS you
choose to watch porn on is your choice.

Robin Goodfellow

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Sep 21, 2021, 2:52:55 PMSep 21
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Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> asked
> And no, the state of iCloud RIGHT NOW is not TNO encryption, and Apple
> right now CAN decrypt the data, but despite the frothing idiots here,
> Apple does NOT do that.

*Apologists' belief systems are based on exactly _zero_ (0) actual facts.*

Can Lewis not be aware that Apple provides decrypted data all the time to
law enforcement (remember, Apple claims they follow all the local laws)?

If not, then _everything_ Lewis just claimed is another imaginary belief.
--
Apologists' belief systems are based on exactly zero (0) actual facts.

Alan Baker

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Sep 21, 2021, 3:10:11 PMSep 21
to
On 2021-09-21 11:52 a.m., Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> asked
>> And no, the state of iCloud RIGHT NOW is not TNO encryption, and Apple
>> right now CAN decrypt the data, but despite the frothing idiots here,
>> Apple does NOT do that.
>
> *Apologists' belief systems are based on exactly _zero_ (0) actual facts.*
>
> Can Lewis not be aware that Apple provides decrypted data all the time to
> law enforcement (remember, Apple claims they follow all the local laws)?

When the receive a valid warrant, what else would you expect them to do?

>
> If not, then _everything_ Lewis just claimed is another imaginary belief.

Since he literally acknowledged that iCloud is not "Trust No One"
encryption...

Snit

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Sep 22, 2021, 4:06:03 AMSep 22
to
On Sep 21, 2021 at 11:52:59 AM MST, "Robin Goodfellow" wrote
<sid9m4$o0c$1...@gioia.aioe.org>:

> Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> asked
>> And no, the state of iCloud RIGHT NOW is not TNO encryption, and Apple
>> right now CAN decrypt the data, but despite the frothing idiots here,
>> Apple does NOT do that.
>
> *Apologists' belief systems are based on exactly _zero_ (0) actual facts.*

You understand yourself well. Good.

>
> Can Lewis not be aware that Apple provides decrypted data all the time to
> law enforcement (remember, Apple claims they follow all the local laws)?
>
> If not, then _everything_ Lewis just claimed is another imaginary belief.


--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.
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