Lion Passes First Test
Frank O'Connor
hours work on my street as the sun set. Completely unannounced of
course, so the first thing I knew about it was when the screen, the Mac
and the lights died and I was left sitting in the dark.
After some swearing and disgruntlement, I pulled out the iPad and read
a pulp novel for a while.
Two hours later the power comes back on ...
I switched the iMac back on … and whaddaya know, the puppy started up,
booted the three applications I had running when the power failed, and
even managed to open the documents I'd been working on (one e-mail, one
browser page and one text document) with no loss of data.
With Snow Leopard I would have lost it all … but with Lion everything
was saved.
There have been a few things about Lion that have bugged me, but if
this is indicative of what happens in a crisis … well, Louie … this is
gonna be the start of a beautiful friendship. For mission critical
stuff, Lion may be just what I'm looking for … especially if it saves
system state like this every time 'bad things happen'.
Small Potato
...or instead of blowing all that money on an iPad you really don't
need, you could have bought a $40 UPS and continued to bang away on your
Mac...
Sharon Fink
I also had an occasion to experience Resume. Nicely done, Lion. Nicely
done, indeed.
--
Sharon F
BreadW...@fractious.net
> On 7/28/11 6:10 AM, Frank O'Connor wrote:
>> Just had a power outage … the power company decided to do a couple of
>> hours work on my street as the sun set. Completely unannounced of
>> Two hours later the power comes back on ...
>> I switched the iMac back on … and whaddaya know, the puppy started up,
>> booted the three applications I had running when the power failed, and
>> even managed to open the documents I'd been working on (one e-mail, one
>> browser page and one text document) with no loss of data.
Nice. Very nice.
> ...or instead of blowing all that money on an iPad you really don't
> need, you could have bought a $40 UPS and continued to bang away on
> your Mac...
That's silly. For one, the iPad is almost certainly not there
just for use during power outages. For two, while a UPS is nice,
it's no guarantee that you won't get data loss. For three, if
the UPS works perfectly, as soon as that power goes off, you
have to be in a scramble to save and close files all over the
place -- Lion would *still* have made that process vastly easier,
especially since if the UPS triggers an auto-shutdown, Lion can
close apps without asking "save document first?" (and then killing
the shutdown process when the question isn't answered).
I'm sure auto-save takes some getting used-to, but it's already
effectively in place in many apps I use under 10.6. It'll be
nice to have it well-integrated and consistent across the board.
Thanks for the good story, Frank.
--
Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.
Tom Stiller
BreadW...@fractious.net wrote:
I'm not sure why you think there will be data loss with a UPS. My APC
UPS connects to a USB (wow,3 TLSs in a row) port and signals when
there's an outage. I've configured it to shutdown the iMac [gracefully]
after 5 minutes of outage or when the UPS battery is down to 50%
capacity. My router, ethernet switch and external disk drives are on
the same UPS.
I've had several outages since I installed the UPS and never lost data.
--
PRAY, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf
of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy. -- Ambrose Bierce
BreadW...@fractious.net
> In article <yobd3gu...@panix1.panix.com>,
> BreadW...@fractious.net wrote:
>> just for use during power outages. For two, while a UPS is nice,
>> it's no guarantee that you won't get data loss. For three, if
>> the UPS works perfectly, as soon as that power goes off, you
>> have to be in a scramble to save and close files all over the
>> place -- Lion would *still* have made that process vastly easier,
> I'm not sure why you think there will be data loss with a UPS. My APC
> UPS connects to a USB (wow,3 TLSs in a row) port and signals when
> there's an outage. I've configured it to shutdown the iMac [gracefully]
That's one of the advantages to Lion's autosave/resume - the
shutdown really would be graceful.
If you're in the middle of editing documents in most programs
in pre-Lion OS, the UPS can *request* a shutdown, but apps with
unsaved data can deny that request. If they are forced to quit,
data is lost. If they aren't forced to quit and the shutdown
doesn't take place, when the power goes away, again, data is lost.
That said, there are many apps pre-Lion which gracefully will
shut down on such requests because they already auto-save all
the time. One doesn't need Lion for this. It just makes it
more likely because it's being done more systematically and
being encouraged by Apple.
> after 5 minutes of outage or when the UPS battery is down to 50%
> capacity. My router, ethernet switch and external disk drives are on
> the same UPS.
Good thing you're there within 5 minutes for those apps which
don't behave with such grace!
> I've had several outages since I installed the UPS and never lost data.
Me, too. My point was only that Lion (once apps are all cooperating
with Lion's new autosave/resume features) - makes it vastly less
likely that there'll be data loss.
Tom Stiller
BreadW...@fractious.net wrote:
> Tom Stiller <tom_s...@yahoo.com> writes:
> > In article <yobd3gu...@panix1.panix.com>,
> > BreadW...@fractious.net wrote:
>
> >> just for use during power outages. For two, while a UPS is nice,
> >> it's no guarantee that you won't get data loss. For three, if the
> >> UPS works perfectly, as soon as that power goes off, you have to
> >> be in a scramble to save and close files all over the place --
> >> Lion would *still* have made that process vastly easier,
>
> > I'm not sure why you think there will be data loss with a UPS. My
> > APC UPS connects to a USB (wow,3 TLSs in a row) port and signals
> > when there's an outage. I've configured it to shutdown the iMac
> > [gracefully]
>
> That's one of the advantages to Lion's autosave/resume - the shutdown
> really would be graceful.
>
> If you're in the middle of editing documents in most programs in
> pre-Lion OS, the UPS can *request* a shutdown, but apps with unsaved
> data can deny that request. If they are forced to quit, data is
> lost. If they aren't forced to quit and the shutdown doesn't take
> place, when the power goes away, again, data is lost.
True enough.
Jamie Kahn Genet
> In article <yobd3gu...@panix1.panix.com>,
> BreadW...@fractious.net wrote:
>
> > Small Potato <sp...@veg.net> writes:
> > > On 7/28/11 6:10 AM, Frank O'Connor wrote:
> >
> > >> Just had a power outage ╜ the power company decided to do a couple of
> > >> hours work on my street as the sun set. Completely unannounced of
> > >> Two hours later the power comes back on ...
> > >> I switched the iMac back on ╜ and whaddaya know, the puppy started up,
What happens in pre-Lion OS X when an app won't quit due to popping up a
dialog (e.g. unsaved document, warning about closing multiple windows
and tabs in browser, in the process of downloading items in iTunes and
other apps)?
Well I know what - automatic shutdown rarely ever works, unless you're
OCD about closing running apps every time you step away from the
computer, which is annoying and silly to have to do.
Nope, while I'm not keen about many of LIon's features, I do like the
sound of auto-save and recovery.
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
John Varela
> Small Potato <sp...@veg.net> writes:
> > ...or instead of blowing all that money on an iPad you really don't
> > need, you could have bought a $40 UPS and continued to bang away on
> > your Mac...
>
> That's silly. For one, the iPad is almost certainly not there
> just for use during power outages. For two, while a UPS is nice,
> it's no guarantee that you won't get data loss. For three, if
> the UPS works perfectly, as soon as that power goes off, you
> have to be in a scramble to save and close files all over the
> place --
Or you could spend a little more than $40 on the UPS and have a
half-hour or 45 minutes to finish up what you're doing and shut
down.
--
John Varela
John Varela
<mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-Vo4dDyenIIlc@localhost>,
> "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > ...or instead of blowing all that money on an iPad you really don't
> > > > need, you could have bought a $40 UPS and continued to bang away on
> > > > your Mac...
> > >
> > > That's silly. For one, the iPad is almost certainly not there just
> > > for use during power outages. For two, while a UPS is nice, it's no
> > > guarantee that you won't get data loss. For three, if the UPS works
> > > perfectly, as soon as that power goes off, you have to be in a
> > > scramble to save and close files all over the place --
> >
> > Or you could spend a little more than $40 on the UPS and have a
> > half-hour or 45 minutes to finish up what you're doing and shut down.
>
> The iPad is not a replacement for a UPS, and a UPS is not a replacement for
> an iPhone.
There's a current thread in alt.usage.english about "straw man"
arguments, and here you present me with a perfect example. I didn't
say anything about iPads or iPhones. I was responding to the
assertion that if your Mac is on an UPS "you have to be in a
scramble to save and close files all over the place", which is
patently untrue.
> --
> Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as
> People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.
Can't stand the thought of genuine grassroots democracy?
--
John Varela
BreadW...@fractious.net
> I was responding to the
> assertion that if your Mac is on an UPS "you have to be in a
> scramble to save and close files all over the place", which is
> patently untrue.
Of course it's true. Even if the UPS does send a "oh, crap, the
power's out - please shut down" signal to the computer, that
doesn't mean that all the programs on the computer know or
understand that, nor will they necessarily behave well when
the system shutdown signal comes in.
You can experiment for yourself: go to your Apple menu and
select "shut down". And now, don't do anything else. When
various programs pop up and say "do you want to save this
document" ignore them. Does the shutdown actually finish
cleanly? Did the machine shut down?
One of the nicest things about Lion is that apps written to
its expectations no longer will bother you with the "do you
want to save your documents" question and when the app is
told nicely to quit by a system shutdown message, the apps
will actually quit.
George Kerby
On 7/29/11 4:15 PM, in article
timstreater-53DA...@news.individual.net, "Tim Streater"
<timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> In article <michelle-C382CE...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
>
>> In article <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-Q3LnwJdfYLNf@localhost>,
>> Sure I can. Anyone who thinks that the Tea Party is "grassroots democracy"
>> is deluded.
>
> Whether or not the "Tea Party"is a bunch of yoyos or hayseeds is a moot
> point. It's the dysfunctional governmental setup you have in the US
> which is at the bottom of it.
Raising the Debt Ceiling to help the Economy is the equivalent of raising
the legally intoxicated blood alcohol level to help the DUI problem.
Whether Michelle likes it or not, the Taxed Enough Already Party is pushing
out a lot of the "Good Old Boy" Country Club Republicans and replacing them
with folks who care about a balanced budget and the future of the USA.
Here is a little funny:
I met a fairy today that said she would grant me one wish.
"I want to live forever," I said.
"Sorry," said the fairy, "I'm not allowed to grant wishes like that!"
"Fine," I said, "then I want to die after Congress gets their heads out of
their asses."
"You crafty bastard," said the fairy.
Jamie Kahn Genet
> In article <michelle-C382CE...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
>
> > In article <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-Q3LnwJdfYLNf@localhost>,
> > Sure I can. Anyone who thinks that the Tea Party is "grassroots democracy"
> > is deluded.
>
> Whether or not the "Tea Party"is a bunch of yoyos or hayseeds is a moot
> point. It's the dysfunctional governmental setup you have in the US
> which is at the bottom of it.
Aye. The US election system is antiquated and not as democratic as
either first past the post
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting> (which is
saying something!) or proportional representation systems such as MMP
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_member_proportional_representation>.
I still can't work out why the US president isn't simply elected by an
absolute majority
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_majority#Majority_of_the_entire_m
embership>. The Electoral College
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States)> is
antiquated and unnecessary to say the least.
As for the Tea Party - well, let's just say I'm happy I live in NZ where
voters are generally more respectful of doing what works, as opposed to
blindly following an ideology.
Jamie Kahn Genet
I'll never understand how so many Americans seem to think government can
work without taxation to pay for public services.
Ed H.
Kahn Genet <jam...@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
That's part of the fairy tale, that the Taxed Enough Already Party
doesn't seem to think the spending their brethren incurred has to be
paid for. Where were they when their party was running up deficits and
the debt? We had budget surpluses for four years in a row but when they
got complete control of government they reversed all of the progress
that was made. It's absolutely insane.
--
Ed H.
Leonard Blaisdell
jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> I still can't work out why the US president isn't simply elected by an
> absolute majority
That's because we are and always have been a representative republic. By
the way, we will continue to be that. There is not a chance in Hell that
we will ever become a democracy under our Constitution. Politicians
bloviate about unfairness when national elections don't go their way,
but the clamor dies quickly. It's happened to both parties. We are fifty
states and not a homogenous mass of one country ruled by a majority.
This is a fact, and I'm thankful for it.
leo
Leonard Blaisdell
jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> I'll never understand how so many Americans seem to think government can
> work without taxation to pay for public services.
We apparently believe in only taxing minimal success and beyond. Check
this.
<http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-half-of-US-households-apf-110556732
3.html?x=0&.v=1>
political [tonight only folks] leo
George Kerby
On 7/30/11 5:18 AM, in article
timstreater-B24A...@news.individual.net, "Tim Streater"
<timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> In article <1k585aw.1bo7p5a2n0pu9N%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
>
>> Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <michelle-C382CE...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-Q3LnwJdfYLNf@localhost>,
>>>> "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as
>>>>>> People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can't stand the thought of genuine grassroots democracy?
>>>>
>>>> Sure I can. Anyone who thinks that the Tea Party is "grassroots
>>>> democracy" is deluded.
>>>
>>> Whether or not the "Tea Party"is a bunch of yoyos or hayseeds is a moot
>>> point. It's the dysfunctional governmental setup you have in the US
>>> which is at the bottom of it.
>>
>> Aye. The US election system is antiquated and not as democratic as
>> either first past the post
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting> (which is
>> saying something!) or proportional representation systems such as MMP
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_member_proportional_representation>.
>
>
> California has this Proposition/ballot business. I watched from the
> sidelines, as four initiatives went on the ballot sometime in the 80s to
> do with vehicle insurance, that was felt to be too high. The four
> initiatives were contradictory and overlapping in their scope. And all
> four passed! nd nothing the legislature could easily do as such ballots
> have the force of constitutional amendments. Daftest thing I ever saw.
California went from the seventh largest economy in the world thirty five
years ago to a cesspool of debt and failure, due mainly to socialist
governing and illegal immigration.
Jolly Roger
> In article <michelle-C382CE...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
>
>> In article <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-Q3LnwJdfYLNf@localhost>,
>> "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>>> Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as > > > People's Democratic
>>>> Republic is to Democracy.
>>>>> Can't stand the thought of genuine grassroots democracy?
>>> Sure I can. Anyone who thinks that the Tea Party is "grassroots democracy" > is deluded.
>
> Whether or not the "Tea Party"is a bunch of yoyos or hayseeds is a moot
> point. It's the dysfunctional governmental setup you have in the US which
> is at the bottom of it.
Clap clap clap!
--
Posted from my iPhone.
Paul Sture
"John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
Can you get a decent UPS for as little as USD 40?
--
Paul Sture
Jolly Roger
Paul Sture <paul....@sture.ch> wrote:
Doubt it. The saying "You get what you pay for" applies here.
--
Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me.
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM
filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google
Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.
JR
Paul Sture
Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> In article <paul.nospam-8EEE...@pbook.sture.ch>,
> Paul Sture <paul....@sture.ch> wrote:
>
> > In article <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-Vo4dDyenIIlc@localhost>,
> > "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 16:50:06 UTC, BreadW...@fractious.net wrote:
> > >
> > > > Small Potato <sp...@veg.net> writes:
> > >
> > > > > ...or instead of blowing all that money on an iPad you really don't
> > > > > need, you could have bought a $40 UPS and continued to bang away on
> > > > > your Mac...
> > > >
> > > > That's silly. For one, the iPad is almost certainly not there
> > > > just for use during power outages. For two, while a UPS is nice,
> > > > it's no guarantee that you won't get data loss. For three, if
> > > > the UPS works perfectly, as soon as that power goes off, you
> > > > have to be in a scramble to save and close files all over the
> > > > place --
> > >
> > > Or you could spend a little more than $40 on the UPS and have a
> > > half-hour or 45 minutes to finish up what you're doing and shut
> > > down.
> >
> > Can you get a decent UPS for as little as USD 40?
>
> Doubt it. The saying "You get what you pay for" applies here.
That's what I thought too.
--
Paul Sture
Section Chief
> In article<timstreater-B24A...@news.individual.net>,
> Tim Streater<timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
>
>> Meanwhile there are elections every two years, the incumbents are
>> labelled as "bums to be thrown out", a new lot gets elected promising to
>> "clean up Washington", and two years later they are the new bums
>
> Not quite totally true. That applies only to the House of Representatives.
>
> Senators are elected for six year terms, with one third of them being up
> for re-election or replacement every two years.
>
> Presidents are elected for four year terms, with a maximum of two terms
> (whether consecutive or not).
>
Well I'll be. Not only a Mac expert-- but a constitutional lawyer as well...
Section Chief
> In article<j11ngd$jpp$1...@news.albasani.net>, Section Chief<bo...@the.org>
> wrote:
>
>>>> Meanwhile there are elections every two years, the incumbents are
>>>> labelled as "bums to be thrown out", a new lot gets elected promising
>>>> to "clean up Washington", and two years later they are the new bums
>>>
>>> Not quite totally true. That applies only to the House of
>>> Representatives.
>>>
>>> Senators are elected for six year terms, with one third of them being
>>> up for re-election or replacement every two years.
>>>
>>> Presidents are elected for four year terms, with a maximum of two
>>> terms (whether consecutive or not).
>>>
>>
>> Well I'll be. Not only a Mac expert-- but a constitutional lawyer as
>> well...
>
> wrote. All it takes is a basic understanding of the constitution.
>
> But I guess to someone as ignorant as you, I do appear to be a Mac expert
> as well as a constitutional lawyer.
>
Pedant and Besserwisser were my actual first impressions. I was just
trying to be polite...unlike some thin-skinned folks here.
John Varela
> "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> writes:
>
> > I was responding to the
> > assertion that if your Mac is on an UPS "you have to be in a
> > scramble to save and close files all over the place", which is
> > patently untrue.
>
> Of course it's true. Even if the UPS does send a "oh, crap, the
> power's out - please shut down" signal to the computer, that
> doesn't mean that all the programs on the computer know or
> understand that, nor will they necessarily behave well when
> the system shutdown signal comes in.
If "you have to be in a scramble to save and close files all over
the place", then the computer is not going to automatically shut
down. You are there, supposedly scrambling, taking care of that.
The rest of what you wrote is irrelevant to what was being
discussed.
My UPS gives me close to an hour after the power goes off before it
tells the computer to shut itself down. I have plenty of time to
wrap things up in an orderly fashion, but most often I just continue
what I was doing and the power comes back on.
--
John Varela
John Varela
<mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-Q3LnwJdfYLNf@localhost>,
> "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > ...or instead of blowing all that money on an iPad you really
> > > > > > don't need, you could have bought a $40 UPS and continued to
> > > > > > bang away on your Mac...
> > > > >
> > > > > That's silly. For one, the iPad is almost certainly not there
> > > > > just for use during power outages. For two, while a UPS is nice,
> > > > > it's no guarantee that you won't get data loss. For three, if the
> > > > > UPS works perfectly, as soon as that power goes off, you have to
> > > > > be in a scramble to save and close files all over the place --
> > > >
> > > > Or you could spend a little more than $40 on the UPS and have a
> > > > half-hour or 45 minutes to finish up what you're doing and shut
> > > > down.
> > >
> > > The iPad is not a replacement for a UPS, and a UPS is not a
> > > replacement for an iPhone.
> >
> > There's a current thread in alt.usage.english about "straw man"
> > arguments, and here you present me with a perfect example. I didn't say
> > anything about iPads or iPhones.
>
> Take a look at the paragraphs you replied to as well as previous messages
> in the thread.
I did. Did you? Maybe you need to learn how to read.
You are still creating straw men, by clipping from my response, `"I
was responding to the assertion that if your Mac is on an UPS "you
have to be in a scramble to save and close files all over the
place", which is
patently untrue.'
> > > Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as
> > > People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.
> >
> > Can't stand the thought of genuine grassroots democracy?
>
> Sure I can. Anyone who thinks that the Tea Party is "grassroots democracy"
> is deluded.
Given the sort of illogic, snideness, and irrelevancy you advance in
response to my simple comment about getting a decently sized UPS,
your politics are no surprise.
--
John Varela
John Varela
wrote:
That number did not come from me. I paid $182.38 for an APC Back-UPS
RS 1300 that gives me (contrary to what I said in another post) over
an hour and a half of backup operation before it commands shutdown.
An UPS that provides a half-hour or so of backup operation would
cost somewhat less, but I have no idea how much less.
--
John Varela
Wes Groleau
> I'll never understand how so many Americans seem to think government can
> work without taxation to pay for public services.
The trick is the right amount of taxation for the right amount
of services. Instead, both parties want too much and are willing
to borrow too much to pay for it.
They pretend to be different, but they aren't.
--
Wes Groleau
There are two types of people in the world …
http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1157
John Varela
<mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-6H50qdur9dXe@localhost>,
> Considering your disregard of the facts of the thread, I'm not surprised
> that you cling to such deceitful politics.
Lookit, Idiot: you said, "if the UPS works perfectly, as soon as
that power goes off, you have to be in a scramble to save and close
files all over the place --"
I responded, harking back to an earlier post that mentioned $40
UPSes, "Or you could spend a little more than $40 on the UPS and
have a half-hour or 45 minutes to finish up what you're doing and
shut down."
To which you came out of left field with, "The iPad is not a
replacement for a UPS, and a UPS is not a replacement for an
iPhone."
At this point I will drop out of this useless argument. Feel free to
have the last word.
ps: that should be "an UPS", not "a UPS".
--
John Varela
nospam
<newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
> I responded, harking back to an earlier post that mentioned $40
> UPSes, "Or you could spend a little more than $40 on the UPS and
> have a half-hour or 45 minutes to finish up what you're doing and
> shut down."
i'm sure that works well when you're not sitting in front of the
computer. does it remotely call you to come home?
> ps: that should be "an UPS", not "a UPS".
nope.
Larry Gusaas
On 2011/07/31 5:08 PM John Varela wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 04:34:13 UTC, Michelle Steiner
> <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
>> Considering your disregard of the facts of the thread, I'm not surprised
>> that you cling to such deceitful politics.
>
> Lookit, Idiot: you said, "if the UPS works perfectly, as soon as
> that power goes off, you have to be in a scramble to save and close
> files all over the place --"
You should go back and read the thread before calling people idiots. That quote wasn't written
by Michelle Steiner.
--
Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - Edgard Varese
Richard Wakeford
> ps: that should be "an UPS", not "a UPS".
No it shouldn't, it's "a UPS", the same as you don't say "an uniform". When
"u" pronunciation sounds like "you" it's treated as a consonant.
Jamie Kahn Genet
Huh, here in New Zealand even unempolyed people on a benefit pay taxes.
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Paul Sture
Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:
> On 07-29-2011 23:41, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
> > I'll never understand how so many Americans seem to think government can
> > work without taxation to pay for public services.
>
> The trick is the right amount of taxation for the right amount
> of services. Instead, both parties want too much and are willing
> to borrow too much to pay for it.
>
> They pretend to be different, but they aren't.
It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in. ;-)
--
Paul Sture
John Varela
wrote:
> In article <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-shxotO7SpftX@localhost>, John Varela
> <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > I responded, harking back to an earlier post that mentioned $40
> > UPSes, "Or you could spend a little more than $40 on the UPS and
> > have a half-hour or 45 minutes to finish up what you're doing and
> > shut down."
>
> i'm sure that works well when you're not sitting in front of the
> computer. does it remotely call you to come home?
If you go away without saving your files and the power fails then I
guess you have a problem with or without an UPS. The topic, however,
had to do with someone who was present having to scramble to save
things when the power went off.
> > ps: that should be "an UPS", not "a UPS".
>
> nope.
Yep. You-pee-ess is those package delivery people.
--
John Varela
John Varela
<larry....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 2011/07/31 5:08 PM John Varela wrote:
> > On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 04:34:13 UTC, Michelle Steiner
> > <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> >> Considering your disregard of the facts of the thread, I'm not surprised
> >> that you cling to such deceitful politics.
> >
> > Lookit, Idiot: you said, "if the UPS works perfectly, as soon as
> > that power goes off, you have to be in a scramble to save and close
> > files all over the place --"
>
> You should go back and read the thread before calling people idiots. That quote wasn't written
> by Michelle Steiner.
I stand corrected. That particular quote was from BreadWithSpam, to
which I responded with the remark about over-$40 UPSes, and Michelle
then came off the wall with the statement "The iPad is not a
replacement for a UPS, and a UPS is not a replacement for an
iPhone," whatever that means.
--
John Varela
John Varela
I and my colleagues have been pronouncing it like the word "up" with
an s added on for decades. APC evidently pronounces it that way,
too, when they call their product a "Back-UPS". But you are free to
pronounce it however you like.
--
John Varela
nospam
<newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > ps: that should be "an UPS", not "a UPS".
> >
> > nope.
>
> Yep. You-pee-ess is those package delivery people.
ups means a lot of things, and even for the package delivery people,
it's still 'a ups.'
nospam
<newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > ps: that should be "an UPS", not "a UPS".
> >
> > No it shouldn't, it's "a UPS", the same as you don't say "an uniform". When
> > "u" pronunciation sounds like "you" it's treated as a consonant.
>
> I and my colleagues have been pronouncing it like the word "up" with
> an s added on for decades.
that's very odd.
> APC evidently pronounces it that way,
> too, when they call their product a "Back-UPS". But you are free to
> pronounce it however you like.
they can call it whatever they want (it's their device), and what if
it's not made by apc?
the generic term for an uninterruptible power supply is ups, as in
ewe-pee-ess.
BreadW...@fractious.net
> If you go away without saving your files and the power fails then I
> guess you have a problem with or without an UPS. The topic, however,
> had to do with someone who was present having to scramble to save
> things when the power went off.
Sadly, this brings us back to the original point - one of the
benefits of Lion is that it provides a systematic way to avoid
this problem. Lion encourages software to automatically save
documents, so if all your programs are up to Lion speed, then
it's simply not possible to "go away without saving your files".
They are already saved. Thus, if you're in front of the computer
when the power goes out, well, if you have a UPS, you can just
let it shut down in an orderly fashion without any intervention.
And if you're nowhere near by, well, the same thing, especially
if the UPS tells the computer to do a normal shut-down and,
since no apps will complain about unsaved files, the shut-down
proceeds without hiccup.
Whereas if you were using OS X pre-Lion (and the software you
were using hadn't implemented its own version of auto-save --
which, by the way, lots of software already did), your computer
may get a shut-down signal from the UPS and then the shut-down
could fail due to apps with unsaved files. And then when the
power does go you lose data. Hence the "must scramble to save
files" issue which, hopefully, none of us really ever has to do.
--
Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.
Richard Wakeford
> I and my colleagues have been pronouncing it like the word "up" with
> an s added on for decades.
I think you and your colleagues are probably very much in the minority with
your pronunciation because I think you'll find that, as nospam writes, the
generic term for an uninterruptible power supply is ups, as in
ewe-pee-ess
> But you are free to
> pronounce it however you like.
Then don't tell someone else it should be "an UPS", not "a UPS" and I'll
continue pronouncing it the right way!
Wes Groleau
> Huh, here in New Zealand even unempolyed people on a benefit pay taxes.
In USA, unemployment compensation is taxable. But for most people,
receiving that means your overall income puts you in the lowest
percent bracket or maybe even the zero percent bracket.
Wes Groleau
> could fail due to apps with unsaved files. And then when the
> power does go you lose data. Hence the "must scramble to save
> files" issue which, hopefully, none of us really ever has to do.
The dispute is not over whether it is possible to lose data.
It's more about the definition of "scramble."
Jamie Kahn Genet
> On 08-01-2011 05:56, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
> > Huh, here in New Zealand even unempolyed people on a benefit pay taxes.
>
> In USA, unemployment compensation is taxable. But for most people,
> receiving that means your overall income puts you in the lowest
> percent bracket or maybe even the zero percent bracket.
Well here in NZ you have to at least be working to make enough to get
any kind of tax return.
John McWilliams
>
> Huh, here in New Zealand even unempolyed people on a benefit pay taxes.
I suppose if they got empolyed, you can unempoly them, no?
Are the benefits from the Gov't, or private, or a mixture? Are they
withheld, or do the poor folks have to file tax forms?
Jamie Kahn Genet
Paul Sture
"John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
Put that way, in German it comes out as "Oops", which is entirely
appropriate when one doesn't fulfil its job description. :-)
Ref:
<http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed&sec
tHdr=on&spellToler=&search=oops>
both words are pronounced the same way
--
Paul Sture
Paul Sture
Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:
> On 08-01-2011 05:56, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
> > Huh, here in New Zealand even unempolyed people on a benefit pay taxes.
>
> In USA, unemployment compensation is taxable. But for most people,
> receiving that means your overall income puts you in the lowest
> percent bracket or maybe even the zero percent bracket.
As I know from my payroll experience in the UK, the tricky bit is when
you have had a good salary for most of the tax year, then end up on
benefits. In this case you can end up paying the higher rates of tax on
those benefits.
If I understood it correctly, back in the 1970s benefits weren't taxable
in the UK. In the same situation as above you could claim back tax
already paid (in the UK, tax is deducted at source for employees), and
this was a useful supplement to ease the pain.
--
Paul Sture
John McWilliams
> John McWilliams<jp...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On 8/1/11 PDT 2:56 AM, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
>>>
>>> Huh, here in New Zealand even unempolyed people on a benefit pay taxes.
>>
>> I suppose if they got empolyed, you can unempoly them, no?
>>
>> Are the benefits from the Gov't, or private, or a mixture? Are they
>> withheld, or do the poor folks have to file tax forms?
>
> Huh?
Pull your head out, Jamie. The first sentence is a play on your
misspelling of "unemployed". Not amusing to you, I see.
The second is a question. Do you really need a translation?
Jamie Kahn Genet
It was your second paragraph that was hard to decipher after being up
all night. But re-reading it today, I get what you're asking - no, in NZ
social welfare benefits are provided by the state. That scary socialism
again :-) Though such things as unemployment insurance and the like do
exist, their usage is extremely low. Provided you're not foolish or
insane (enough to reject or screw up help, that is), no one is left
without at least a minimal safety net here, in terms of shelter, food,
education and medical care.
John Varela
wrote:
If it's an acronym then it's pronouncable as a word.
From the Oxford English Dictionary:
acronym, n.
Etymology: < acro- comb. form + -onym after homonym n.(Show Less)
orig. U.S.
Thesaurus �
Categories �
A word formed from the initial letters of other words.
--
John Varela
John Varela
> Whereas if you were using OS X pre-Lion (and the software you
> were using hadn't implemented its own version of auto-save --
> which, by the way, lots of software already did), your computer
> may get a shut-down signal from the UPS and then the shut-down
> could fail due to apps with unsaved files. And then when the
> power does go you lose data. Hence the "must scramble to save
> files" issue which, hopefully, none of us really ever has to do.
Sure, I've encountered that when shutting down. Usually caused by
Firefox having multiple tabs open.
My point was that if you have a decent sized UPS then you have
plenty of time to carry out your shutdown so there's no scrambling
involved.
--
John Varela
David Empson
I didn't know that acronyms had to be pronounceable words until someone
(Michelle?) pointed it out to me recently. That web site calling itself
an "acronym finder" is obviously using the term loosely to include
initialisms which are not pronounceable as words.
UPS (short for Uninterruptable Power Supply) has been pronounced
"you-pee-ess" in every spoken reference I've heard anyone make, and it
is referred to as "a UPS" in all written references I've noticed,
implying the pronunciation is individual letters.
If someone had used "ups" as a single word I would have had no idea what
they were talking about until I read this thread.
--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz
Paul Sture
"John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Aug 2011 21:09:19 UTC, BreadW...@fractious.net wrote:
>
> > Whereas if you were using OS X pre-Lion (and the software you
> > were using hadn't implemented its own version of auto-save --
> > which, by the way, lots of software already did), your computer
> > may get a shut-down signal from the UPS and then the shut-down
> > could fail due to apps with unsaved files. And then when the
> > power does go you lose data. Hence the "must scramble to save
> > files" issue which, hopefully, none of us really ever has to do.
>
> Sure, I've encountered that when shutting down. Usually caused by
> Firefox having multiple tabs open.
You can fix that in Firefox:
Preferences > General > When Firefox starts > Restore: Show my windows
and tabs from last time
> My point was that if you have a decent sized UPS then you have
> plenty of time to carry out your shutdown so there's no scrambling
> involved.
Only if you are near the computer at the time.
--
Paul Sture
John Varela
wrote:
> In article <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-Q5VvNSF231N9@localhost>,
> "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 1 Aug 2011 21:09:19 UTC, BreadW...@fractious.net wrote:
> >
> > > Whereas if you were using OS X pre-Lion (and the software you
> > > were using hadn't implemented its own version of auto-save --
> > > which, by the way, lots of software already did), your computer
> > > may get a shut-down signal from the UPS and then the shut-down
> > > could fail due to apps with unsaved files. And then when the
> > > power does go you lose data. Hence the "must scramble to save
> > > files" issue which, hopefully, none of us really ever has to do.
> >
> > Sure, I've encountered that when shutting down. Usually caused by
> > Firefox having multiple tabs open.
>
> You can fix that in Firefox:
>
> Preferences > General > When Firefox starts > Restore: Show my windows
> and tabs from last time
Thanks. I'll do that.
> > My point was that if you have a decent sized UPS then you have
> > plenty of time to carry out your shutdown so there's no scrambling
> > involved.
>
> Only if you are near the computer at the time.
Where "near" means "in the same building" and aware that the power
has failed (that is, not napping). In my house there are enough
things that beep when the power goes off that there's no fear I
won't know it has happened.
--
John Varela
nospam
<newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > > > ps: that should be "an UPS", not "a UPS".
> > > >
> > > > nope.
> > >
> > > Yep. You-pee-ess is those package delivery people.
> >
> > ups means a lot of things, and even for the package delivery people,
> > it's still 'a ups.'
> >
> > <http://www.acronymfinder.com/UPS.html>
>
> If it's an acronym then it's pronouncable as a word.
so why is ups (united parcel service) not pronounced as a word, while
ups - uninterruptible power supply pronounced as a word? can't have it
both ways.
Thomas R. Kettler
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
The funny thing about it is that I've done the opposite. I've never
referred to an Uninterruptible Power Supply as an acronym but routinely
do so for the United Parcel Service. It even makes more sense to do so
since they have the following as their 1-800 number: 1-800-PICK-UPS. To
say Pick UPS with spelling out each letter is awkward but to pronounce
the UPS as the word Ups so you say Pick-Ups makes sense.
--
Remove blown from email address to reply.
John McWilliams
John Varela<newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> If it's an acronym then it's pronouncable as a word.
>>
>> From the Oxford English Dictionary:
>>
>> acronym, n.
>>
>> Etymology:< acro- comb. form + -onym after homonym n.(Show Less)
>> orig. U.S.
>> Thesaurus �
>> Categories �
>>
>> A word formed from the initial letters of other words.
>
> I didn't know that acronyms had to be pronounceable words until someone
> (Michelle?) pointed it out to me recently. That web site calling itself
> an "acronym finder" is obviously using the term loosely to include
> initialisms which are not pronounceable as words.
>
> UPS (short for Uninterruptable Power Supply) has been pronounced
> "you-pee-ess" in every spoken reference I've heard anyone make, and it
> is referred to as "a UPS" in all written references I've noticed,
> implying the pronunciation is individual letters.
>
> If someone had used "ups" as a single word I would have had no idea what
> they were talking about until I read this thread.
>
Well, scuzzy that! (What some used to pronounce/call a SCSI device)
Acronyms are much nicer when they can be pronounced. But, please don't
do it with The Supremes (court, not singers) nor The Pres.......
Jamie Kahn Genet
Actually it's the 'warn when closing multiple tabs or windows' setting.
Paul Sture
"John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Aug 2011 06:19:25 UTC, Paul Sture <paul....@sture.ch>
> wrote:
>
> > In article <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-Q5VvNSF231N9@localhost>,
> > "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Sure, I've encountered that when shutting down. Usually caused by
> > > Firefox having multiple tabs open.
> >
> > You can fix that in Firefox:
> >
> > Preferences > General > When Firefox starts > Restore: Show my windows
> > and tabs from last time
>
> Thanks. I'll do that.
As Jamie pointed out, also see the "warn when closing multiple tabs or
windows" setting under the Tabs tab.
> > > My point was that if you have a decent sized UPS then you have
> > > plenty of time to carry out your shutdown so there's no scrambling
> > > involved.
> >
> > Only if you are near the computer at the time.
>
> Where "near" means "in the same building" and aware that the power
> has failed (that is, not napping). In my house there are enough
> things that beep when the power goes off that there's no fear I
> won't know it has happened.
Fair enough, but do you switch off when just going for an hour or two?
--
Paul Sture
John Varela
wrote:
Because the parcel service doesn't want it pronounced as a word. I
merely quoted the definition of "acronym" as found in any
dictionary.
--
John Varela
John Varela
And APC calls their products "Back-UPS" and "Smart-UPS" so I assume
they pronounce it as a word.
Since I was used to pronouncing UPS in the battery backup meaning as
a word, when I went into the parcel service's store I referred to it
as "ups" and was quickly corrected.
--
John Varela
John Varela
wrote:
> In article <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-ItGdKtUsWUeP@localhost>,
> "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 3 Aug 2011 06:19:25 UTC, Paul Sture <paul....@sture.ch>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > In article <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-Q5VvNSF231N9@localhost>,
> > > "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Sure, I've encountered that when shutting down. Usually caused by
> > > > Firefox having multiple tabs open.
> > >
> > > You can fix that in Firefox:
> > >
> > > Preferences > General > When Firefox starts > Restore: Show my windows
> > > and tabs from last time
> >
> > Thanks. I'll do that.
>
> As Jamie pointed out, also see the "warn when closing multiple tabs or
> windows" setting under the Tabs tab.
>
> > > > My point was that if you have a decent sized UPS then you have
> > > > plenty of time to carry out your shutdown so there's no scrambling
> > > > involved.
> > >
> > > Only if you are near the computer at the time.
> >
> > Where "near" means "in the same building" and aware that the power
> > has failed (that is, not napping). In my house there are enough
> > things that beep when the power goes off that there's no fear I
> > won't know it has happened.
>
> Fair enough, but do you switch off when just going for an hour or two?
No, but any work in progress will have been saved any time I leave
the computer.
--
John Varela
nospam
<newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > If it's an acronym then it's pronouncable as a word.
> >
> > so why is ups (united parcel service) not pronounced as a word, while
> > ups - uninterruptible power supply pronounced as a word? can't have it
> > both ways.
>
> Because the parcel service doesn't want it pronounced as a word.
where is this absurdity documented? there is no pronunciation guide on
the united parcel service web site, or anywhere else for that matter,
regarding how they want it pronounced.
Paul Sture
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
How do they answer the telephone?
--
Paul Sture
Thomas R. Kettler
Paul Sture <paul....@sture.ch> wrote:
People answer telephones? I get stuck in voicemail hell.
Paul Sture
"Thomas R. Kettler" <tket...@blownfuse.net> wrote:
Doesn't voicemail give a greeting message containing the company name?
--
Paul Sture
Paul Sture
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <paul.nospam-05C0...@pbook.sture.ch>,
> Paul Sture <paul....@sture.ch> wrote:
>
> > > > > so why is ups (united parcel service) not pronounced as a word,
> > > > > while ups - uninterruptible power supply pronounced as a word?
> > > > > can't have it both ways.
> > > >
> > > > Because the parcel service doesn't want it pronounced as a word.
> > >
> > > where is this absurdity documented? there is no pronunciation guide on
> > > the united parcel service web site, or anywhere else for that matter,
> > > regarding how they want it pronounced.
> >
> > How do they answer the telephone?
>
> "Please listen carefully as our menus have changed."
A truly insidious invention!
I first came across these when trying to phone US companies from the UK.
This was before the days of Skype or even email, and transatlantic calls
cost plenty.
And what on earth was a "Pound sign"? I didn't have one of those on my
telephone (I did have hash though ;-) ). Hmm, I've just remembered that
the dial tones weren't the same between the US and UK back then, We
bought a small gizmo which you could hold to the mouthpiece and tap in
the choices to get around that.
The French had a better idea. A tape recording with pleasant music and
a rather sexy French female voice telling you you were on hold. We
really didn't mind listening to that ;-)
--
Paul Sture
Thomas R. Kettler
Paul Sture <paul....@sture.ch> wrote:
> In article <tkettler-BECCBE...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Thomas R. Kettler" <tket...@blownfuse.net> wrote:
>
> > In article <paul.nospam-05C0...@pbook.sture.ch>,
> > Paul Sture <paul....@sture.ch> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <040820111954492868%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
> > > nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In article <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-QigoeehJSpCy@localhost>, John Varela
> > > > <newl...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > If it's an acronym then it's pronouncable as a word.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > so why is ups (united parcel service) not pronounced as a word,
> > > > > > while
> > > > > > ups - uninterruptible power supply pronounced as a word? can't have
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > both ways.
> > > > >
> > > > > Because the parcel service doesn't want it pronounced as a word.
> > > >
> > > > where is this absurdity documented? there is no pronunciation guide on
> > > > the united parcel service web site, or anywhere else for that matter,
> > > > regarding how they want it pronounced.
> > >
> > > How do they answer the telephone?
> >
> > People answer telephones? I get stuck in voicemail hell.
>
> Doesn't voicemail give a greeting message containing the company name?
A recording of a person on the phone is not a person answering a phone.
John Varela
wrote:
As I mentioned elsethread, while in a United Parcel Service store I
referred to the company as "ups" and was immediately corrected by
the clerk: "you-pee-ess". I assume he was following company policy
and not just being a pissant.
--
John Varela
Mary Siebold
Woman, the things you learn on this group, it's just amazing! I also
referred to UPS as ups and the clerck asked me if I had any downs. I
must admit, I didn't get it.
Now I do! Thanks a lot!
Mary Siebold
> Just had a power outage … the power company decided to do a couple of
> hours work on my street as the sun set. Completely unannounced of
> course, so the first thing I knew about it was when the screen, the Mac
> and the lights died and I was left sitting in the dark.
>
> After some swearing and disgruntlement, I pulled out the iPad and read a
> pulp novel for a while.
>
> Two hours later the power comes back on ...
>
> I switched the iMac back on … and whaddaya know, the puppy started up,
> booted the three applications I had running when the power failed, and
> even managed to open the documents I'd been working on (one e-mail, one
> browser page and one text document) with no loss of data.
Oh, this is wonderful! I just called an Ubuntu user. You know the kind
with 3 hairs in the face as a beard and more pimples than skin. The kind
no Apple store would sell anything to. (Why the hell do you beleive he's
a Linux user?) I asked him if he could press the reset button and see
what happens.
No apps opened on reboot! When he opened Firefox, the opened pages were
still there. But, for, Open Office, he had to answer a question about
"revovering the document". Whta can this possibly mean?
Macs are just great value!
Wes Groleau
> "Please listen carefully as our menus have changed."
Which 95% of the time is a bald-faced lie.
I'm sure someone wrote in a trade magazine,
"Customers getting to your people too quickly?
Try telling them that you've changed your menus
and they should pay attention."
--
Wes Groleau
There are two types of people in the world …
http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1157
Wes Groleau
> A recording of a person on the phone is not a person answering a phone.
Nevertheless, the person making the recording is not going to identify
the company in a way the company doesn't want to be identified.
Jim Glidewell
My son worked for a UPS Store for a year or so - I asked him if he had ever
heard _anybody_ refer to it as "ups" - he hadn't.
Likewise, I have somewhat regular dealings with electricians who regularly
work with datacenter UPS systems in the 1-3 *megawatt* range. They never
say "ups" either.
I have never heard _anybody_ pronounce _either_ UPS as "ups" - and I can't
imagine being very impressed with anyone who is willing to risk confusion
("A what?") for the sake of saving two syllables. (though I did pronounce
SCSI as "scuzzy" back in the day...)
"Ups" just seems a bit too much like "leet-speak" as spoken by
basement-dwelling Windows PC "experts" to me.
Do you pronounce CIA as "see-a", and FBI as "fibee", and the IRS as "ers",
and USA as "yoosa" as well? :-)