Is this idea as stupid as it sounds to me?
Kurt Ullman
engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year. My
original suggestion to my friend was to find out what the EE was smoking
because it was obviously pretty good stuff. Was this suggestion correct.
--
To find that place where the rats don't race
and the phones don't ring at all.
If once, you've slept on an island.
Scott Kirby "If once you've slept on an island"
J.J. O'Shea
(in article
<kurtullman-964A8...@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net>):
> I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
> engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
> reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year.
Why?
> My
> original suggestion to my friend was to find out what the EE was smoking
> because it was obviously pretty good stuff. Was this suggestion correct.
>
>
Doing a reformat every year is one of the most stupid ideas I've heard of in
a long time.
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
Kurt Ullman
J.J. O'Shea <try.n...@but.see.sig> wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 10:09:19 -0500, Kurt Ullman wrote
> (in article
> <kurtullman-964A8...@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net>):
>
> > I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
> > engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
> > reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year.
>
> Why?
The EE says it is part of annual maintenance. I have seen it as
a nuclear option for screwed up computers, but never as routine.
I told my buddy that just the hassles involved with getting the
keys, etc., needed to reinstall the programs would argue against it, let
alone all the other crap.
Even for a window machine and if seems stupid for a Windows machine,
it has to be Mother of All Stupidity for a Mac .
Jamie Kahn Genet
> I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
> engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
> reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year. My
> original suggestion to my friend was to find out what the EE was smoking
> because it was obviously pretty good stuff. Was this suggestion correct.
I remember this being so-called good advice for Windows back before XP,
but even then it seemed pointless to me unless you tested an awful lot
of software each year or you were dodgy about security. The only time
I'd nuke and pave and reinstall everything is if I was having serious
issues. I can't imagine why I'd waste my time otherwise.
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Mike Rosenberg
> > > I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
> > > engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
> > > reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year.
> >
> > Why?
> The EE says it is part of annual maintenance. I have seen it as
> a nuclear option for screwed up computers, but never as routine.
I'd say it's as much a part of annual computer maintenance as rebuilding
an engine is part of car maintenance.
--
My latest dance performance <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvB98fgse-s>
Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi>
Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi>
Davoud
> I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
> engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
> reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year. My
> original suggestion to my friend was to find out what the EE was smoking
> because it was obviously pretty good stuff. Was this suggestion correct.
Engineers. God love 'em. We need 'em. But they must not be allowed to
work without supervision from an adult non-engineer.
Davoud
--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.
usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
Mr. Strat
<kurtullman-964A8...@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net>, Kurt
Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
> engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
> reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year. My
> original suggestion to my friend was to find out what the EE was smoking
> because it was obviously pretty good stuff. Was this suggestion correct.
Sounds like a Windows user...
Jim
<kurtullman-964A8...@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net>,
Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
> engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
> reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year. My
> original suggestion to my friend was to find out what the EE was smoking
> because it was obviously pretty good stuff. Was this suggestion correct.
I seem to remember eons ago when it was considered prudent to reformat
hard disks to refresh the magnetic fields. Used to be called 'bit rot'.
You'd be using a system and slowly data would get lost, programs
wouldn't run anymore (but a simple recompile would fix it).
Disk technology has come far since then and there is no longer a reason
to 'refresh magnetic fields'.
Or I've been smoking something that totally messed up my memory.
--
Edo ergo sum
Tim Streater
> In article<221120090937537729%r...@nospam.techline.com>,
> it, and has been doing it ever since rather than figuring out what the
> problem really was.
In which case he's not an engineer.
--
Tim
"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines
imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"
Bill of Rights 1689
Sandy Foster
<kurtullman-964A8...@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net>,
Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
> engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
> reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year. My
> original suggestion to my friend was to find out what the EE was smoking
> because it was obviously pretty good stuff. Was this suggestion correct.
One of the Mac-oriented podcasts out there (I can't remember which one
at the moment) advocates the same procedure. I can't for the life of me
understand why. :S
--
Sandy
sw.foster 1 (at) gmail (dot) com (remove/change the obvious)
http://www.sandymike.net
Jamie Kahn Genet
> Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
> > > > engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
> > > > reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year.
> > >
> > > Why?
> > The EE says it is part of annual maintenance. I have seen it as
> > a nuclear option for screwed up computers, but never as routine.
>
> I'd say it's as much a part of annual computer maintenance as rebuilding
> an engine is part of car maintenance.
*blink*
Ian Gregory
> I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical engineer.
> He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
> reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year. My
> original suggestion to my friend was to find out what the EE was
> smoking because it was obviously pretty good stuff. Was this
> suggestion correct.
If you don't mind spending the time doing it then why not? It can't
hurt. I only do it when I do a major OS upgrade - the last time was in
April 2008 when I upgraded the OS on my iMac from Tiger to Leopard. It
is still on Leopard and I am unlikely to upgrade it to Snow Leopard
because I will probably be getting a new iMac fairly soon.
There are two situations where you would be crazy not to securely erase
the HD and install from scratch - before you sell a machine and when you
buy a used machine. In other situations it is a matter of preference. It
is a great way to get rid of all cruft but it can be fairly time
consuming. When I do it I only install software as and when I need it,
which generally means that there is a lot of software that never gets
re-installed.
Ian
--
Ian Gregory
http://www.zenatode.org.uk/ian/
Tom Harrington
<kurtullman-BAB59...@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net>,
Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <hebkr...@news1.newsguy.com>,
> J.J. O'Shea <try.n...@but.see.sig> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 10:09:19 -0500, Kurt Ullman wrote
> > (in article
> > <kurtullman-964A8...@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net>):
> >
> > > I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
> > > engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
> > > reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year.
> >
> > Why?
> The EE says it is part of annual maintenance.
That's not an answer, that's just a schedule.
--
Tom "Tom" Harrington
Independent Mac OS X developer since 2002
http://www.atomicbird.com/
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <1j9kxss.1r0h8g9cop268N%mike...@TOGROUPmacconsult.com>):
> Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>>> I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
>>>> engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
>>>> reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year.
>>>
>>> Why?
>> The EE says it is part of annual maintenance. I have seen it as
>> a nuclear option for screwed up computers, but never as routine.
>
> I'd say it's as much a part of annual computer maintenance as rebuilding
> an engine is part of car maintenance.
>
>
Sounds about right.
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <1j9mjfp.3vhj9ho6kyn5N%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>):
> Mike Rosenberg <mike...@TOGROUPmacconsult.com> wrote:
>
>> Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
>>>>> engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
>>>>> reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year.
>>>>
>>>> Why?
>>> The EE says it is part of annual maintenance. I have seen it as
>>> a nuclear option for screwed up computers, but never as routine.
>>
>> I'd say it's as much a part of annual computer maintenance as rebuilding
>> an engine is part of car maintenance.
>
> *blink*
>
When was the last time that you rebuilt the engine on your car?
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <slrnhgj2e...@zenatode.org.uk>):
Why not simply not install cruft in the first place? That way you won't need
to reformat your drive to get rid of it.
Jamie Kahn Genet
I don't own one :-) But if I did I can't imagine doing so unless there
were major problems.
Mike Rosenberg
> > >> I'd say it's as much a part of annual computer maintenance as rebuilding
> > >> an engine is part of car maintenance.
> > >
> > > *blink*
> > >
> >
> > When was the last time that you rebuilt the engine on your car?
>
> I don't own one :-) But if I did I can't imagine doing so unless there
> were major problems.
And that's exactly my point.
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <1j9mkgq.enlllnnd8jvuN%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>):
I've owned various cars for almost as long as I've owned various computers.
The next time I rebuild an engine will be the first time.
And the next time that I do 'maintenance' on a computer by reformatting the
drive and putting back the OS and apps will be the first time.
Ian Gregory
> Why not simply not install cruft in the first place? That way you
> won't need to reformat your drive to get rid of it.
Of course I never intentionally "install cruft". What happens is that I
install software or a plugin or or library or pref pane or whatever
because I have a use for it at the time but then it may be rendered
redundant at a later (perhaps much later) date, either because I no
longer have use for that functionality or I install something else that
provides equivalent or improved functionality, or a new version of
Safari has built in functionality that previously required a plugin or
separate app, or any number of other scenarios. In fact, as I said, I
only do it when I install a new OS, and it is often the case that a new
OS provides a lot of functionality that previously required third party
apps (eg with Time Machine on Leopard I no longer needed the third party
backup software that I used previously). Does that answer your question?
If you care about cruft (and I am not saying you have to) then it takes
far more effort to purge it on an ongoing basis than it does to
occasionally start from scratch. Reformatting is actually the lazy
option.
Steven Fisher
<kurtullman-964A8...@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net>,
Kurt Ullman <kurtu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
> engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
> reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year. My
> original suggestion to my friend was to find out what the EE was smoking
> because it was obviously pretty good stuff. Was this suggestion correct.
No.
Or, put another way, if you believe in wrapping your head in tin foil to
prevent aliens from reading your brain and sending the results to the
CIA, this is likely a great procedure.
Steve
Steven Fisher
Steven Fisher <sdfi...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> Or, put another way, if you believe in wrapping your head in tin foil to
> prevent aliens from reading your brain and sending the results to the
> CIA, this is likely a great procedure.
Actually, to be fair, there's one reason why this (and every other
tin-foil-hat maintenance procedure) is a good idea: If your hard drive
or power supply is right on the edge, this will make that completely
obvious, and possibly even @#$%ing kill it dead.
If you're not using Time Machine* (in which case, what the hell is wrong
with you?) it's way better for hardware to die in the middle of a
backup/reformat/install than any other time.
*-Or equivalent, daily (at minimum) backup.
Steve
nospam
Vilain <vil...@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> You don't install and try stuff to see if it's worth buying? I'm not
> talking about a pirated version of Word but a shareware utility or tool.
> Some leave files behind that you need to track down or use yet another
> utility to clean out.
there's no need to track them down unless you are *really* tight on
disk space.
> I did have to do a full reformat and reinstall when I stupidly upgraded
> CUPS. That version would constantly break whenever I applied an Apple
> update. Once I reinstalled, that problem went away.
that modifies the system itself. applications don't generally do that.
a couple have kernel extensions but that's about it.
nospam
Vilain <vil...@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> > > Or an engineer who had a problem back in MacOS 8, did this which fixed
> > > it, and has been doing it ever since rather than figuring out what the
> > > problem really was.
> >
> > In which case he's not an engineer.
>
> Well, if we're going to quibble symantics, I'm done with this this
> conversation. If someone has a degree in engineering, passed and was
> certified by a professional engineering organization, and spent 20 years
> being paid doing various engineering projects, I define them as an
> engineer. Whatever metrics you use are your metrics. We might as well
> be talking about God here. My god doesn't blame people for poor morals
> and say AIDS is their retribution for a life of sin.
they may be an engineer on paper but that doesn't mean they don't do
stupid things.
> OTOH, if someone is dogmatically following a rule without questioning
> it, I call that a "Good Christian". Not necessarily a good engineer,
> but still a engineer.
you mean like blindly reformatting a hard drive with no valid reason?
Paul Sture
J.J. O'Shea <try.n...@but.see.sig> wrote:
> Why not simply not install cruft in the first place? That way you won't need
> to reformat your drive to get rid of it.
All those apps you downloaded to look at and decided not to buy and/or
use any more can leave a load of cruft behind even if you delete the
main .app file.
I did it once on my iBook, at 6 years old, and got a surprising amount
of disk space back. I had upgraded all the way from 10.1 to the then
latest version of 10.4 and suspected a load of stuff was left behind
by previous OS X versions.
I wouldn't say it's necessary though.
--
Paul Sture
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <vilain-5C025F....@individual.net>):
> In article <hec2k...@news6.newsguy.com>,
> J.J. O'Shea <try.n...@but.see.sig> wrote:
>
> You don't install and try stuff to see if it's worth buying?
I don't install random stuff. And I usually use anything I install.
> I'm not
> talking about a pirated version of Word but a shareware utility or tool.
> Some leave files behind that you need to track down or use yet another
> utility to clean out.
I simply couldn't care less about pref files from old apps. Specifically
because of this post I just checked my /Library/Preferences folder, and found
that I still had pref files for iWork, iWork 06, iWork 06 installer, iWork
08, iWork 08 installer, and of course iWork 09 and iWork 09 installer. 4 kB
each. I care so little about the whopping 20 kB I'd get back on my 320 GB
internal hard disk that I didn't bother killing the older iWork files.
Hellfire, the _entire_ Preferences folder accounts for 4 MB... That level of
stuff is simply not worth the effort of running it down.
Besides, I still have iWork 05, 06, and 08 on the machine, I might use them
some day, and the apps take up a whole lot more space, even though they've
been ZIPped... (I still have AppleWorks 6.29 on it too. I actually did use
AppleWorks in September, for the first time in years. Gee, whatever would I
have done if I'd 'cleaned out the cruft' and deleted it? I've got 56 GB free
on the internal hard disk, so it's not like I'm running low on space.
> If you don't do this sort of thing, fine. I've
> installed a web CMS, wordpress, MySQL, ImageMagic, etc on my machine all
> in the course of researching something for a project.
I've got a bunch of things I've installed once and used once, maybe twice.
But I installed them for reasons, and I've kept them 'cause I might want to
use 'em.
>
> I did have to do a full reformat and reinstall when I stupidly upgraded
> CUPS. That version would constantly break whenever I applied an Apple
> update. Once I reinstalled, that problem went away.
>
> As a rule, I tend to only apply updates or install stuff if there's a
> reason to do so. YMMV.
>
Because I put some thought into what I install before it's installed, I tend
to keep stuff around.
J.J. O'Shea
(in article <221120091656523908%nos...@nospam.invalid>):
> In article <vilain-5C025F....@individual.net>, Michael
> Vilain <vil...@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> You don't install and try stuff to see if it's worth buying? I'm not
>> talking about a pirated version of Word but a shareware utility or tool.
>> Some leave files behind that you need to track down or use yet another
>> utility to clean out.
>
> there's no need to track them down unless you are *really* tight on
> disk space.
And, frankly, when you get that low on disk space it's time to get a new hard
drive.
>
>> I did have to do a full reformat and reinstall when I stupidly upgraded
>> CUPS. That version would constantly break whenever I applied an Apple
>> update. Once I reinstalled, that problem went away.
>
> that modifies the system itself. applications don't generally do that.
> a couple have kernel extensions but that's about it.
Exactly. Reformatting for the sake of reformatting is a waste of time.
John Varela
<timst...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> On 22/11/2009 17:57, Michael Vilain wrote:
> > In article<221120090937537729%r...@nospam.techline.com>,
> > "Mr. Strat"<r...@nospam.techline.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In article
> >> <kurtullman-964A8...@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net>, Kurt
> >> Ullman<kurtu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
> >>> engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
> >>> reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year. My
> >>> original suggestion to my friend was to find out what the EE was smoking
> >>> because it was obviously pretty good stuff. Was this suggestion correct.
> >>
> >> Sounds like a Windows user...
> >
> > Or an engineer who had a problem back in MacOS 8, did this which fixed
> > it, and has been doing it ever since rather than figuring out what the
> > problem really was.
>
> In which case he's not an engineer.
Baloney. As said above in the "Intel iMacs dropping network
connections" thread, it's how I solved my Wifi dropout problem. It
was, of course, part of the major upgrade from Leopard to Snow
Leopard, and the solution of the Wifi problem was a happy outcome.
--
John Varela
Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email
Tim Streater
An engineer is supposed to *think*, alright?
JF Mezei
> I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
> engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
> reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year.
To be the devil's advocate:
If you have a machine that is dedicated to one function (for instance,
controlling some hydraulic press), I could understand this mentality.
What such a proecedure does is ensure no crud/lint accumulates on your
hard drive and that any non approve software that is installed on it
(including viruses, trojans and what not) are also zapped.
This assume that you have a "maste copy" locked in a safe and that you
can just deploy the amster copy to the various machines that use it.
But in a normal working environment where you accumulate much more
"good" stuff than you do lint, it would be far too much work to
reconstruct your computer at regular intervals.
FWIW, I have a VMS system whose system disk began life in 1987. It has
changed hardware, changed physical disks a number of times, but the
"soul" of the system disk has remained. Yes, it has some lint, but it is
at some manageable level.
I have far mroe lint on a brand new Mac because of all the .dmgs , all
the .pdfs that get dumped onto my desktop by firefox etc etc.
JF Mezei
> Or, put another way, if you believe in wrapping your head in tin foil to
> prevent aliens from reading your brain and sending the results to the
> CIA, this is likely a great procedure.
Where does one buy tin foil ?
The grocery stores sell aluminium foil. Bit I don't recall ever seeing
tin foil being sold.
JF Mezei
There are situations where you do really need to have a stable/fixed
system that really doesn't gather any lint/excess baggage.
And there are situations where you do want your system to evolve along
with your needs, get new versions of plugins etc etc.
The engineer's suggestion is good for "fixed" systems. (think trading
room machines with very specific software and nothing else allowed).
But that suggestion is no good for the average user who does need his
system to constantly evolve. The "rebuild the system annually" mentality
would require that the user fully document ALL (and I mean "ALL")
changes being made to the system, and prior to zapping the system to be
reloaded, all documehts, preferences, software keys etc would need to be
saved elsewhere and re-installed.
Just too much work.
If you are worried about disk drives, then you can change the disk drive
every year if you wish. But you do a disk image of the old one onto the
new one and thus doN,t need to re-install anything.
Tom Harrington
JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
First get a time machine, and set the date for around 1940...
Ian Gregory
> But that suggestion is no good for the average user who does need his
> system to constantly evolve. The "rebuild the system annually"
> mentality would require that the user fully document ALL (and I mean
> "ALL") changes being made to the system, and prior to zapping the
> system to be reloaded, all documehts, preferences, software keys etc
> would need to be saved elsewhere and re-installed.
It is all in my home directory anyway, so as long as I am allowed to
keep that there is no problem. I mainly use apps that come with Mac OS X
and iLife so there are only a couple more that I would have to install
initially - plus MacPorts and a few essential ports. Within a few hours
I would be up and running again. Of course that doesn't address the
problem of cruft in my home directory - that is a trickier problem:-)
> Just too much work.
For some people perhaps. I don't do it annually but I do when I install
a new OS (erase and install). Think of it like emptying a handbag and
then only putting back what you actually need:-)
Nick Naym
t...@pcisys.no.spam.dammit.net wrote on 11/22/09 7:05 PM:
> In article <00859c9f$0$26768$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
>> Steven Fisher wrote:
>>
>>> Or, put another way, if you believe in wrapping your head in tin foil to
>>> prevent aliens from reading your brain and sending the results to the
>>> CIA, this is likely a great procedure.
>>
>> Where does one buy tin foil ?
>>
>> The grocery stores sell aluminium foil. Bit I don't recall ever seeing
>> tin foil being sold.
>
> First get a time machine, and set the date for around 1940...
Maybe even earlier.
--
iMac (24", 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, 320 GB HDD) � OS X (10.5.8)
Tom Stiller
Tom Harrington <t...@pcisys.no.spam.dammit.net> wrote:
> In article <00859c9f$0$26768$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
> > Steven Fisher wrote:
> >
> > > Or, put another way, if you believe in wrapping your head in tin foil to
> > > prevent aliens from reading your brain and sending the results to the
> > > CIA, this is likely a great procedure.
> >
> > Where does one buy tin foil ?
> >
> > The grocery stores sell aluminium foil. Bit I don't recall ever seeing
> > tin foil being sold.
>
> First get a time machine, and set the date for around 1940...
Yeah, we used to separate it from the waxed paper wrappers on sticks of
chewing gum and some cigarette packs, then accumulate into a ball.
--
Tom Stiller
PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF
Steven Fisher
"John Varela" <OLDl...@verizon.net> wrote:
> It
> was, of course, part of the major upgrade from Leopard to Snow
> Leopard, and the solution of the Wifi problem was a happy outcome.
So it couldn't have possibly have just been the new Snow Leopard wifi
drivers, as reported elsewhere?
Steve
Steven Fisher
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> they may be an engineer on paper but that doesn't mean they don't do
> stupid things.
Exactly right. Part of being a good engineer is understanding the
reasons for what you do. Certainly, I don't take advice with hand-wavey
explanations any more seriously from an engineer than from a guy on the
street holding a "THE END IS NIGH" sign.
Steve
Steven Fisher
> The grocery stores sell aluminium foil. Bit I don't recall ever seeing
> tin foil being sold.
Calling it tin foil must be a regionalism.
Steve
Steven Fisher
Ian Gregory <f...@prdetfanaaeextna.invalid> wrote:
> For some people perhaps. I don't do it annually but I do when I install
> a new OS (erase and install). Think of it like emptying a handbag and
> then only putting back what you actually need:-)
More like breaking down a handbag to constituent parts and sewing it
back together.
But hey, if you think it makes a difference, why not?
Steve
Nick Naym
Fisher at sdfi...@spamcop.net wrote on 11/22/09 10:20 PM:
I could be wrong, but I think it has more to do with when -- not where --
you were born.
Justin
> I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
> engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
> original suggestion to my friend was to find out what the EE was smoking
> because it was obviously pretty good stuff. Was this suggestion correct.
>
Actually...
I reformat every year on my Windows machines.
When I see a spyware/malware infestation on a Windows machine - I
usually reformat - it takes the same amount of time to remove
everything, and after you do there's always holes.
A reformat every year or two is a Windows norm.
On the Mac side - absolutely not.
Hell you don't even have to defrag a Mac.
Jamie Kahn Genet
One would hope logic and reasoned thought would play some small part in
their decisions...
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Paul Sture
Justin <jus...@nobecauseihatespam.com> wrote:
> Kurt Ullman wrote:
> > I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
> > engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
> > reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year. My
> > original suggestion to my friend was to find out what the EE was smoking
> > because it was obviously pretty good stuff. Was this suggestion correct.
> >
>
>
> Actually...
> I reformat every year on my Windows machines.
> When I see a spyware/malware infestation on a Windows machine - I
> usually reformat - it takes the same amount of time to remove
> everything, and after you do there's always holes.
> A reformat every year or two is a Windows norm.
Ahem. When I ran NT4 at home I only once did a reformat, and that was to
repartition so that I could backup my laptop into a dedicated area.
But I'd bought a tape drive, so when disaster stuck (which it did,
regularly), a full restore took only an hour.
> On the Mac side - absolutely not.
> Hell you don't even have to defrag a Mac.
--
Paul Sture
Paul Sture
JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> A rolling stone gathers no moss.
>
> There are situations where you do really need to have a stable/fixed
> system that really doesn't gather any lint/excess baggage.
>
> And there are situations where you do want your system to evolve along
> with your needs, get new versions of plugins etc etc.
>
> The engineer's suggestion is good for "fixed" systems. (think trading
> room machines with very specific software and nothing else allowed).
>
> But that suggestion is no good for the average user who does need his
> system to constantly evolve. The "rebuild the system annually" mentality
> would require that the user fully document ALL (and I mean "ALL")
> changes being made to the system, and prior to zapping the system to be
> reloaded, all documehts, preferences, software keys etc would need to be
> saved elsewhere and re-installed.
>
> Just too much work.
A good tip I picked up from Mac OS X Hints is to take screen shots of
your system settings and stuff them in your iPhoto library.
> If you are worried about disk drives, then you can change the disk drive
> every year if you wish. But you do a disk image of the old one onto the
> new one and thus doN,t need to re-install anything.
--
Paul Sture
Paul Sture
JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> I have far mroe lint on a brand new Mac because of all the .dmgs , all
> the .pdfs that get dumped onto my desktop by firefox etc etc.
I create a ~/Downloads folder for that stuff and point my browsers at
that.
--
Paul Sture
Paul Sture
> Kurt Ullman wrote:
> > I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
> > engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
> > reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year.
>
>
> To be the devil's advocate:
>
> If you have a machine that is dedicated to one function (for instance,
> controlling some hydraulic press), I could understand this mentality.
> What such a proecedure does is ensure no crud/lint accumulates on your
> hard drive and that any non approve software that is installed on it
> (including viruses, trojans and what not) are also zapped.
>
I'll jump in as a devil's advocate here as well...
My experience of computer Hardware Engineers (aka Field Service
Engineers) says that a lot of them don't really understand software.
There are of course notable exceptions.
--
Paul Sture
JF Mezei
If i click on links whose content cannot be acted upon, then Firefox
does save them in the designated directory. But when I click on links
that can be acted upon (like .PDFs) it saves them to the desktop and
then calls adobe reader to display them. never figured out how to fix that.
Paul Sture
JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
Well I set FF up with a previous version so things may have changed, but
IIRC I had to select Download To and choose the folder I wanted.
There's a checkbox in the Open File dialog which says "Do this
automatically for files like this from now on". If that is set, I'm not
sure where you unset it.
--
Paul Sture
Tim Streater
Ah, like the DEC guy who, when I was at SLAC, thought it normal to erase
the RK05 disks we'd left mounted.
Well, he was doing a drive test, wasn't he?
Nick Naym
paul....@sture.ch wrote on 11/23/09 9:23 AM:
Are they engineers, or technicians with fancy titles?
Fred Moore
>
> > I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
> > engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
> > original suggestion to my friend was to find out what the EE was smoking
> > because it was obviously pretty good stuff. Was this suggestion correct.
>
> hard disks to refresh the magnetic fields. Used to be called 'bit rot'.
> You'd be using a system and slowly data would get lost, programs
> wouldn't run anymore (but a simple recompile would fix it).
>
> Disk technology has come far since then and there is no longer a reason
> to 'refresh magnetic fields'.
HOLD YOUR CALLS, WE HAVE A WINNER, though there is a bit more to the
story (and I don't understand why no one else has congratulated Jim).
Back in the far distant past (at least as far back as when Macs came
standard with SCSI hard drives), those drives suffered from several
problems not common on today's drives including bit rot, actuator creep
(decalibration), thermal decalibration, and numerous other subtle but
deadly aging actions. The solution was to ANNUALLY run complete
verification and backup maintenance, then do a *LOW* LEVEL REFORMAT as a
_preventative_ measure. You restored from the preformat backup so this
process had no affect on accumulated useless software.
Modern disks are more robust. These days, most hard drives are low-level
formatted only once in there lives, at the factory. There are almost no
disk utilities which can format a current hard drive at a low level
(that I'm aware of anyway). Disk Utility and the rest can only rewrite
the partition map and assemble a new directory using the existing
low-level, factory-formated structure on the disk. The only common
action which can change this factory structure are routines built into
the disk controller mechanism which can map out bad blocks and possibly
replace them with spares, if available.
The EE who still recommends the annual reformatting obviously never got
the memo, unless he has a very rare utility for doing a low-level format
of a modern disk. Even then, I'm not sure it's necessary/productive with
today's mechanisms.
One of my engineering professors stated, 'Engineering is one mean-assed,
demanding, high-maintenance bitch!' His point was that every ten years
an engineer, to stay current in his field, must spend the equivalent
independent study time of earning his original bachelor's degree all
over again. The referenced EE must have slacked off (not that I blame
him).
As to the comment that no one should ever do anything without knowing
why, aww, come on! We all do that all the time with complex technology,
especially computers. Sure, that's not ideal, and we should still look
for the reason why; but if a solution works, we use it in the meantime.
Still, one MUST stay current. As mentioned, that's a bitch.
Jim, you can pick up your valuable prize in the lobby unless someone in
this thread says 'Hitler'. Oops, I guess I just blew it for you. Sorry.
Godwin's Law really is The Law after all. ;)
nospam
Fred Moore <fmo...@gcfn.org> wrote:
> Back in the far distant past (at least as far back as when Macs came
> standard with SCSI hard drives), those drives suffered from several
> problems not common on today's drives including bit rot, actuator creep
> (decalibration), thermal decalibration, and numerous other subtle but
> deadly aging actions. The solution was to ANNUALLY run complete
> verification and backup maintenance, then do a *LOW* LEVEL REFORMAT as a
> _preventative_ measure. You restored from the preformat backup so this
> process had no affect on accumulated useless software.
bullshit. there was no need to do that then either.
> Modern disks are more robust. These days, most hard drives are low-level
> formatted only once in there lives, at the factory. There are almost no
> disk utilities which can format a current hard drive at a low level
> (that I'm aware of anyway).
not only is it almost none, but it *is* none. what is called 'low level
format' in disk software is actually zeroing all blocks. actually
writing out sectors is done at the factory and can't be done by the end
user.
Jolly Roger
Paul Sture <paul....@sture.ch> wrote:
I'll echo that statement. By and large, hardware engineers are ignorant
when it comes to software and operating system architecture.
--
Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me.
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM
filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google
Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.
JR
Jolly Roger
Jolly Roger
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> not only is it almost none, but it *is* none. what is called 'low level
> format' in disk software is actually zeroing all blocks. actually
> writing out sectors is done at the factory and can't be done by the end
> user.
I believe all of the above refers to ATA disks, but is not true for SCSI
disks, right?
nospam
Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> In article <231120091437263164%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> > not only is it almost none, but it *is* none. what is called 'low level
> > format' in disk software is actually zeroing all blocks. actually
> > writing out sectors is done at the factory and can't be done by the end
> > user.
>
> I believe all of the above refers to ATA disks, but is not true for SCSI
> disks, right?
possibly. i don't remember and google is giving me mixed results. what
i do remember is that i never needed to reformat a scsi drive on a
regular basis.
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
> I believe all of the above refers to ATA disks, but is not true for SCSI
> disks, right?
For a long time, the difference between ATA, SCSI, fiber optic, etc, are the
electronics on the board that receive and transmit the signals. The actual
data storage mechanism is the same.
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel g...@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
John Varela
I did that. We called it "tin foil", and I'm sure at one time it
must have been tin. You didn't see much of it during WWII. Was the
ball-making part of scrap drives? I don't recall.
--
John Varela
Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email
John Varela
<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> But in a normal working environment where you accumulate much more
> "good" stuff than you do lint, it would be far too much work to
> reconstruct your computer at regular intervals.
That's what Migration Assistant is for.
John Varela
That's my guess.
John Varela
<timst...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> On 22/11/2009 23:01, John Varela wrote:
> > On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:28:20 UTC, Tim Streater
> > <timst...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 22/11/2009 17:57, Michael Vilain wrote:
> >>> In article<221120090937537729%r...@nospam.techline.com>,
> >>> "Mr. Strat"<r...@nospam.techline.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> In article
> >>>> <kurtullman-964A8...@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net>, Kurt
> >>>> Ullman<kurtu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
> >>>>> engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
> >>>>> reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year. My
> >>>>> original suggestion to my friend was to find out what the EE was smoking
> >>>>> because it was obviously pretty good stuff. Was this suggestion correct.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sounds like a Windows user...
> >>>
> >>> Or an engineer who had a problem back in MacOS 8, did this which fixed
> >>> it, and has been doing it ever since rather than figuring out what the
> >>> problem really was.
> >>
> >> In which case he's not an engineer.
> >
> > Baloney. As said above in the "Intel iMacs dropping network
> > connections" thread, it's how I solved my Wifi dropout problem. It
> > was, of course, part of the major upgrade from Leopard to Snow
> > Leopard, and the solution of the Wifi problem was a happy outcome.
>
> An engineer is supposed to *think*, alright?
And I had tried everything I could think of. Evidently something
was corrupted and I wasn't getting to it. Time for the nuclear
option.
Tom Stiller
"John Varela" <OLDl...@verizon.net> wrote:
While I participated in many scrap drives, I only recall the tinfoil
balls as being something kids just did.
--
Tom Stiller
PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF
Nick Naym
OLDl...@verizon.net wrote on 11/23/09 5:38 PM:
> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 03:04:50 UTC, Tom Stiller
> <tom_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <tph-4A1B60.17051922112009@localhost>,
>> Tom Harrington <t...@pcisys.no.spam.dammit.net> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <00859c9f$0$26768$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
>>> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Steven Fisher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Or, put another way, if you believe in wrapping your head in tin foil to
>>>>> prevent aliens from reading your brain and sending the results to the
>>>>> CIA, this is likely a great procedure.
>>>>
>>>> Where does one buy tin foil ?
>>>>
>>>> The grocery stores sell aluminium foil. Bit I don't recall ever seeing
>>>> tin foil being sold.
>>>
>>> First get a time machine, and set the date for around 1940...
>>
>> Yeah, we used to separate it from the waxed paper wrappers on sticks of
>> chewing gum and some cigarette packs, then accumulate into a ball.
>
> I did that. We called it "tin foil", and I'm sure at one time it
> must have been tin.
It was.
> You didn't see much of it during WWII. Was the
> ball-making part of scrap drives? I don't recall.
A bit before my time.
Nick Naym
at jolly...@pobox.com wrote on 11/23/09 3:09 PM:
> In article <C7303B52.4C3EF%nicknaym@[remove_this].gmail.com>,
> Nick Naym <nicknaym@[remove_this].gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In article paul.nospam-DB5B...@pbook.sture.ch, Paul Sture at
>> paul....@sture.ch wrote on 11/23/09 9:23 AM:
>>
>>> In article <00859c08$0$26768$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
>>> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kurt Ullman wrote:
>>>>> I have a friend who has another friend who is an electrical
>>>>> engineer. He has just about gotten my my friend sold on the necessity of
>>>>> reformatting the HD and replacing ALL of they software every year.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To be the devil's advocate:
>>>>
>>>> If you have a machine that is dedicated to one function (for instance,
>>>> controlling some hydraulic press), I could understand this mentality.
>>>> What such a proecedure does is ensure no crud/lint accumulates on your
>>>> hard drive and that any non approve software that is installed on it
>>>> (including viruses, trojans and what not) are also zapped.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'll jump in as a devil's advocate here as well...
>>>
>>> My experience of computer Hardware Engineers (aka Field Service
>>> Engineers) says that a lot of them don't really understand software.
>>>
>>> There are of course notable exceptions.
>>
>>
>> Are they engineers, or technicians with fancy titles?
>
> In my case, IEEE engineers.
There are different levels of IEEE membership, not all requiring academic
degrees. And some schools award degrees in "engineering technology," which
is not the same.
JF Mezei
> possibly. i don't remember and google is giving me mixed results. what
> i do remember is that i never needed to reformat a scsi drive on a
> regular basis.
The SCSI protocol includes commands to initiate a low level format of a
drive. So even if a GUI utility doesn't have a button to initiate a low
level format, the disk drives themselves are able to reformat themselves
upon reception of the correct command.
Priam
Oh, Mr JF!
I'm so glad to see you're back. I thought you were dead. So, bright guy,
why don't you tell us why it makes sense to pay $300 on top of the price
of a Core 2 Duo for an i5 processor? Why is it any greener to buy one
Mac after another, just to follow superlative hype? Or, for that matter,
is it OK for Jooby to void smokers' guarantees? Doesn't it look like
another screw-you dismissal as was the case for leaking G5s?
Did you lose track of the threads?
nospam
<pr...@notsosure.com> wrote:
> why don't you tell us why it makes sense to pay $300 on top of the price
> of a Core 2 Duo for an i5 processor?
$300 is for more than just an i5 chip
> is it OK for Jooby to void smokers' guarantees?
David Empson
Not necessarily. They need to accept the command to do a low level
format, but they don't actually have to do anything in response to that
command.
--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz
Priam
> In article<hefpui$t0p$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, Priam
> <pr...@notsosure.com> wrote:
>
>> why don't you tell us why it makes sense to pay $300 on top of the price
>> of a Core 2 Duo for an i5 processor?
>
> $300 is for more than just an i5 chip
Yes, I know that. I wasn't going to rewrite the thread. If you want to
discuss, please post in the relevant thread.
>> is it OK for Jooby to void smokers' guarantees?
>
> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/13/ventblockers/>
I posted the URL to this page myself, so I'm aware of it. Please don't
clutter this thread with your shit.
nospam
<pr...@notsosure.com> wrote:
> Please don't clutter this thread with your shit.
likewise.
Warren Oates
> posted the URL to this page myself, so I'm aware of it. Please don't
> clutter this thread with your shit.
Manges it, ya little pepsi wanker.
--
Suddenly he realized that he was alone
with a giant halfwit on a dark deserted street.
-- Chester Himes
Jolly Roger
*yawn* bored with this topic now... moving on...
Paul Sture
Tim Streater <timst...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> On 23/11/2009 14:23, Paul Sture wrote:
> > I'll jump in as a devil's advocate here as well...
> >
> > My experience of computer Hardware Engineers (aka Field Service
> > Engineers) says that a lot of them don't really understand software.
>
> Ah, like the DEC guy who, when I was at SLAC, thought it normal to erase
> the RK05 disks we'd left mounted.
>
> Well, he was doing a drive test, wasn't he?
Not with live disks, but we came across one chap who thought that any
old RK05 out of the cupboard would do.
We used to lock them up during preventative maintenance.
--
Paul Sture