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JF Mezei
Jul 25, 2021, 11:30:13 PM7/25/21
to
1- open Chocolate.Txt
2- do some edits
3- "Save As" Raspberry.txt
4- do more edits
5- do a "save".
Is there a standard on whether operation (5) will write to
Choocolate.txt or to Raspberry.txt ?
After Apple tried to wreck "Save As",I have never really known how real
applications handle the "Save As" that they preserved, and I am curious
if there is a strict standard that is still adhered to, orwhether this
can change from app to app?
Especially when an app as both Save As and "Save a Copy", so I have
become paranoid and after doing the "Save As", I often just close the
document and open the one I just "Save As" to make sure futher edits
don't go back to the original.
Snit
Jul 26, 2021, 12:30:17 AM7/26/21
to
On Jul 25, 2021 at 8:30:09 PM MST, "JF Mezei" wrote
<5%pLI.28268$Nq7....@fx33.iad>:
>
> 1- open Chocolate.Txt
> 2- do some edits
> 3- "Save As" Raspberry.txt
> 4- do more edits
> 5- do a "save".
>
>
> Is there a standard on whether operation (5) will write to
> Choocolate.txt or to Raspberry.txt ?
As far as I know it will write to Raspberry.txt -- and that name will show in
the title bar as soon as you do the Save As. re there any exceptions to this?
> After Apple tried to wreck "Save As",I have never really known how real
> applications handle the "Save As" that they preserved, and I am curious
> if there is a strict standard that is still adhered to, orwhether this
> can change from app to app?
Not sure what you mean by "wreck"? I think they removed it for a bit in favor
of "Duplicate", which keeps both windows open but otherwise works much the
same. Duplicate might work better for you in terms of any confusion you have
on this.
> Especially when an app as both Save As and "Save a Copy", so I have
> become paranoid and after doing the "Save As", I often just close the
> document and open the one I just "Save As" to make sure futher edits
> don't go back to the original.
"Save a Copy" saves a copy without changing the document you are in. So:
1- open Chocolate.Txt
2- do some edits
3- "Save As" Raspberry.txt
4- do more edits
5- do a "save".
You are on Raspberry.txt
Then edit more and do a "Save A Copy" to "Vanilla.txt" and a file with that
name is saved, but you are still in Raspberry.txt.
If you have any confusion you can look at the title bar -- it has the name of
the file you are working with.
--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.
They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.
<5%pLI.28268$Nq7....@fx33.iad>:
>
> 1- open Chocolate.Txt
> 2- do some edits
> 3- "Save As" Raspberry.txt
> 4- do more edits
> 5- do a "save".
>
>
> Is there a standard on whether operation (5) will write to
> Choocolate.txt or to Raspberry.txt ?
the title bar as soon as you do the Save As. re there any exceptions to this?
> After Apple tried to wreck "Save As",I have never really known how real
> applications handle the "Save As" that they preserved, and I am curious
> if there is a strict standard that is still adhered to, orwhether this
> can change from app to app?
of "Duplicate", which keeps both windows open but otherwise works much the
same. Duplicate might work better for you in terms of any confusion you have
on this.
> Especially when an app as both Save As and "Save a Copy", so I have
> become paranoid and after doing the "Save As", I often just close the
> document and open the one I just "Save As" to make sure futher edits
> don't go back to the original.
1- open Chocolate.Txt
2- do some edits
3- "Save As" Raspberry.txt
4- do more edits
5- do a "save".
Then edit more and do a "Save A Copy" to "Vanilla.txt" and a file with that
name is saved, but you are still in Raspberry.txt.
If you have any confusion you can look at the title bar -- it has the name of
the file you are working with.
--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.
They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.
JF Mezei
Jul 26, 2021, 7:52:05 PM7/26/21
to
On 2021-07-26 00:30, Snit wrote:
> As far as I know it will write to Raspberry.txt -- and that name will show in
> the title bar as soon as you do the Save As. re there any exceptions to this?
Just a question that I lost trust in it. I've had times where I edited
> As far as I know it will write to Raspberry.txt -- and that name will show in
> the title bar as soon as you do the Save As. re there any exceptions to this?
chocolate, started to make changes and wanted to save progressive
backups while still editing chocolate and wasn't sure what I was editing
and when done wanted to save to chocolate.
(and in the old days , save as didn't change what document was being
edited and subsequent save went to original.
And in some apple apps, even though didn't issue a "change", you can't
quit without reverting the saved version which is so unnatural for
documeht based apps.
> Not sure what you mean by "wreck"? I think they removed it for a bit in favor
> of "Duplicate", which keeps both windows open but otherwise works much the
> same. Duplicate might work better for you in terms of any confusion you have
> on this.
I much prefer doing this in Finder and knowing exactly what saved
version I am copying to another file.
Call me old schooll.
> "Save a Copy" saves a copy without changing the document you are in. So:
Thanks. To me, Save As and Save a Copy are identical, because to me
"Save" is the operation of writing to disk. But Save As also means Save
to another file and then open other file for editing.
And I am always unsure if all apps behave the way you describe or not.
(I don,t trust Adobe ones that much).
Snit
Jul 26, 2021, 9:56:17 PM7/26/21
to
On Jul 26, 2021 at 4:52:01 PM MST, "JF Mezei" wrote
<BUHLI.7477$nj3....@fx15.iad>:
> On 2021-07-26 00:30, Snit wrote:
>
>> As far as I know it will write to Raspberry.txt -- and that name will show in
>> the title bar as soon as you do the Save As. re there any exceptions to this?
>
> Just a question that I lost trust in it.
The way it works makes sense to me, but we all think differently.
> I've had times where I edited
> chocolate, started to make changes and wanted to save progressive
> backups while still editing chocolate and wasn't sure what I was editing
> and when done wanted to save to chocolate.
If you save it to a new file it is a new file. Not sure what else you would
expect.
> (and in the old days , save as didn't change what document was being
> edited and subsequent save went to original.
Do you have an example of that?
> And in some apple apps, even though didn't issue a "change", you can't
> quit without reverting the saved version which is so unnatural for
> documeht based apps.
Not sure what you mean -- do you have an example?
>> Not sure what you mean by "wreck"? I think they removed it for a bit in favor
>> of "Duplicate", which keeps both windows open but otherwise works much the
>> same. Duplicate might work better for you in terms of any confusion you have
>> on this.
>
> I've never used duplicate within an app because not all apps have it and
> I much prefer doing this in Finder and knowing exactly what saved
> version I am copying to another file.
When you use Duplicate you get just that... but it is true it is not always
available.
> Call me old schooll.
>> "Save a Copy" saves a copy without changing the document you are in. So:
>
> Thanks. To me, Save As and Save a Copy are identical, because to me
> "Save" is the operation of writing to disk.
Think of the window you are in. Save As is changing the window you are in to
that. Save a copy copies the file.
> But Save As also means Save
> to another file and then open other file for editing.
Save As a new file... does not delete the old. It is not just rename (you can
do that in many apps, too).
<BUHLI.7477$nj3....@fx15.iad>:
> On 2021-07-26 00:30, Snit wrote:
>
>> As far as I know it will write to Raspberry.txt -- and that name will show in
>> the title bar as soon as you do the Save As. re there any exceptions to this?
>
> Just a question that I lost trust in it.
> I've had times where I edited
> chocolate, started to make changes and wanted to save progressive
> backups while still editing chocolate and wasn't sure what I was editing
> and when done wanted to save to chocolate.
expect.
> (and in the old days , save as didn't change what document was being
> edited and subsequent save went to original.
> And in some apple apps, even though didn't issue a "change", you can't
> quit without reverting the saved version which is so unnatural for
> documeht based apps.
>> Not sure what you mean by "wreck"? I think they removed it for a bit in favor
>> of "Duplicate", which keeps both windows open but otherwise works much the
>> same. Duplicate might work better for you in terms of any confusion you have
>> on this.
>
> I've never used duplicate within an app because not all apps have it and
> I much prefer doing this in Finder and knowing exactly what saved
> version I am copying to another file.
available.
> Call me old schooll.
>> "Save a Copy" saves a copy without changing the document you are in. So:
>
> Thanks. To me, Save As and Save a Copy are identical, because to me
> "Save" is the operation of writing to disk.
that. Save a copy copies the file.
> But Save As also means Save
> to another file and then open other file for editing.
do that in many apps, too).
>
> And I am always unsure if all apps behave the way you describe or not.
> (I don,t trust Adobe ones that much).
Not all have all the options, which I can see as being confusing.
> And I am always unsure if all apps behave the way you describe or not.
> (I don,t trust Adobe ones that much).
nospam
Jul 26, 2021, 10:13:11 PM7/26/21
to
In article <BUHLI.7477$nj3....@fx15.iad>, JF Mezei
save saves to the currently open document.
save as... creates a new document with a new name & location you
provide, which then becomes the current document. the original document
is no longer current and ceases to be modified in any future saves.
save a copy as... creates a *copy* of the current document with a new
name & location you provide. it does *not* become the current document.
the original document continues to be the current document and future
saves will be written to the original. think of it as a snapshot in
time of the document.
> And in some apple apps, even though didn't issue a "change", you can't
> quit without reverting the saved version which is so unnatural for
> documeht based apps.
you *did* issue a change, although it's not always obvious what it was.
that's why the new method is awful.
> > "Save a Copy" saves a copy without changing the document you are in. So:
>
> Thanks. To me, Save As and Save a Copy are identical, because to me
> "Save" is the operation of writing to disk. But Save As also means Save
> to another file and then open other file for editing.
they're not identical.
<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> (and in the old days , save as didn't change what document was being
> edited and subsequent save went to original.
no it didn't.
> (and in the old days , save as didn't change what document was being
> edited and subsequent save went to original.
save saves to the currently open document.
save as... creates a new document with a new name & location you
provide, which then becomes the current document. the original document
is no longer current and ceases to be modified in any future saves.
save a copy as... creates a *copy* of the current document with a new
name & location you provide. it does *not* become the current document.
the original document continues to be the current document and future
saves will be written to the original. think of it as a snapshot in
time of the document.
> And in some apple apps, even though didn't issue a "change", you can't
> quit without reverting the saved version which is so unnatural for
> documeht based apps.
that's why the new method is awful.
> > "Save a Copy" saves a copy without changing the document you are in. So:
>
> Thanks. To me, Save As and Save a Copy are identical, because to me
> "Save" is the operation of writing to disk. But Save As also means Save
> to another file and then open other file for editing.
Your Name
Jul 27, 2021, 2:06:15 AM7/27/21
to
On 2021-07-27 01:56:13 +0000, Snit said:
> On Jul 26, 2021 at 4:52:01 PM MST, "JF Mezei" wrote
> <BUHLI.7477$nj3....@fx15.iad>:
>> On 2021-07-26 00:30, Snit wrote:
>>
>>> As far as I know it will write to Raspberry.txt -- and that name will
>>> show in the title bar as soon as you do the Save As. re there any
>>> exceptions to this?
>>
>> Just a question that I lost trust in it.
>
> The way it works makes sense to me, but we all think differently.
>
>> I've had times where I edited chocolate, started to make changes and
>> wanted to save progressive backups while still editing chocolate and
>> wasn't sure what I was editing and when done wanted to save to
>> chocolate.
>
> If you save it to a new file it is a new file. Not sure what else you would
> expect.
"Save As" has *ALWAYS* left you editing the newly created filename file
> On Jul 26, 2021 at 4:52:01 PM MST, "JF Mezei" wrote
> <BUHLI.7477$nj3....@fx15.iad>:
>> On 2021-07-26 00:30, Snit wrote:
>>
>>> As far as I know it will write to Raspberry.txt -- and that name will
>>> show in the title bar as soon as you do the Save As. re there any
>>> exceptions to this?
>>
>> Just a question that I lost trust in it.
>
> The way it works makes sense to me, but we all think differently.
>
>> I've had times where I edited chocolate, started to make changes and
>> wanted to save progressive backups while still editing chocolate and
>> wasn't sure what I was editing and when done wanted to save to
>> chocolate.
>
> If you save it to a new file it is a new file. Not sure what else you would
> expect.
in every app with the function. That's what it's designed to do and is
sensible.
>> (and in the old days , save as didn't change what document was being
>> edited and subsequent save went to original.
>
> Do you have an example of that?
think works the way he is remembering (leaving you editing the original
filename file), but I've never needed to bother using it to know for
sure.
The new "Duplicate" function sort of works this way too. It leaves both
files open with you editing the new copy (which hasn't been saved yet,
so has no filename).
For apps that have the silly new "Duplicate" function und er the File
menu, you can usually hold down the Option key and it changes back to
being "Save As" instead.
Lewis
Jul 27, 2021, 6:07:29 PM7/27/21
to
In message <BUHLI.7477$nj3....@fx15.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> (and in the old days , save as didn't change what document was being
> edited and subsequent save went to original.
Completely and utterly wrong.
> (and in the old days , save as didn't change what document was being
> edited and subsequent save went to original.
Save as has ALWAYS created a new document and further edits applied to
the NEW document, not the old one.
> I've never used duplicate within an app because not all apps have it
anything in any menu other than File->Quit.
Oh wait, you can't use File Quit either, as the Finder doe not have that
option.
What an idiotic statement.
> Thanks. To me, Save As and Save a Copy are identical
as well say that save and print and share are all identical.
> And I am always unsure
--
"They always say time changes things, but you actually have to change
them yourself." Andy Warhol
JF Mezei
Jul 27, 2021, 8:45:47 PM7/27/21
to
On 2021-07-27 18:07, Lewis wrote:
> Oh wait, you can't use File Quit either, as the Finder doe not have that
> option.
Correct. It in in the "Finder" menu, not the File menu in Finder.
> Oh wait, you can't use File Quit either, as the Finder doe not have that
> option.
(enabled with Tinker Tools, not Quit not available by default).
Lewis
Jul 28, 2021, 8:33:43 AM7/28/21
to
In message <XM1MI.77125$VU3....@fx46.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2021-07-27 18:07, Lewis wrote:
>> Oh wait, you can't use File Quit either, as the Finder doe not have that
>> option.
> Correct. It in in the "Finder" menu, not the File menu in Finder.
No it is not.
> On 2021-07-27 18:07, Lewis wrote:
>> Oh wait, you can't use File Quit either, as the Finder doe not have that
>> option.
> Correct. It in in the "Finder" menu, not the File menu in Finder.
And it's inconsistent and you claimed you won't use menu items that
don't appear in every app.
(And no, if you yourself add menu items that are not there by default
you cannot claim they are consistent).
--
'They think they want good government and justice for all, Vimes, yet
what is it they really crave, deep in their hearts? Only that
things go on as normal and tomorrow is pretty much like today.'
--Feet of Clay
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