Summary: I'm faint! I just saw the price for MPW!
John Nagle
>In article <1992Dec20.2...@netcom.com>, na...@netcom.com (John
>Nagle) wrote:
>>
>> It's also worth noting that if you use MacApp, your source code may
>> be "contaminated" with Apple code, and you may have legal difficulties
>Can you cite a part of the MacApp license agreement that might lead to
>problems? I don't know of any clause that would contaminate your source
>code. While it may say that you cannot port MacApp to another platform,
>you are always free to take your source code and port that.
The Developer CD Series volume II (which its literature
says contains sample code) comes with the statement "The Software and Manuals
contain copyrighted material, trade secrets and other proprietary material
and in order to protect them you may not decompile, reverse engineer,
disassemble, or otherwise reduce the Software to a human-perceivable form.
You may not modify, network, rent, lease, loan, sell, distribute, or create
derivative works based upon the Software in whole or in part..."
(from paragraph 2, "Restrictions")
Note that this is on a CD that contains sample code which Apple
encouraged you to copy into your own programs.
I dropped out of Apple's Certified Developer Program in 1990, so
I'm not up to date on current terms. But at least back then, these
things came with language sufficiently overreaching that avoiding
contamination with Apple intellectual property would be difficult.
This gives Apple some leverage if you later port something that might
contain some sample code to another platform.
It's scary having sample code around with that kind of restrictive
language attached. And destroying the CD, as required to terminate the
agreement under Paragraph 3 of its licence agreement, is a real pain.
Trying to break a CD in half by hand is dangerous. I finally had to use
a heavy-duty paper punch.
I think Apple has become more reasonable since 1990, but I haven't
checked. I don't use MacApp.
John Nagle
Roy Smith
> and in order to protect them you may not decompile, reverse engineer,
> disassemble, or otherwise reduce the Software to a human-perceivable form.
l...@taligent.com (Larry Rosenstein) replied:
>I don't have any CDs around to see what the situation is today.
The paper folder that comes tucked into the ETO-8 disk (the
latest-minus-one ETO shipped, but the latest one I've got here) has the same
warning about reverse engineering, being a trade secret, etc. They also
state the "you may not [...] create derivative works based upon the Software
in whole or in part". If writing an application based on MacAPP isn't a
derivitive work, I'd like to know what is.
--
Roy Smith <r...@nyu.edu>
Hippocrates Project, Department of Microbiology, Coles 202
NYU School of Medicine, 550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
"This never happened to Bart Simpson."
Kent Sandvik
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.oop.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer
Organization: (Evil Eye Creature from Mars, Inc.)
In article <lsr-2212...@lsr.taligent.com>, l...@taligent.com (Larry
Rosenstein) wrote:
> In article <1992Dec22.0...@netcom.com>, na...@netcom.com (John
> Nagle) wrote:
> > and in order to protect them you may not decompile, reverse engineer,
> > disassemble, or otherwise reduce the Software to a human-perceivable form.
>
> I don't have any CDs around to see what the situation is today. I do know
> that MacApp is not on the Developer CD. And the versions of the MacApp
> license that I've seen doesn't place any of those restrictions.
> Also, all the Tech Notes and DTS Sample Code I've seen has carried an
> explict statement that you can use this and distribute it, provided you do
> not sell it.
Here's the vital part concerning restrictions of Dev. CD use, in
the TeachText file up in the left corner:
2. RESTRICTIONS. The Software and Materials contain copyrighted material,
trade secrets and other proprietary material and in order to protect them
you may not decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble or otherwise reduce
the Software and Materials to a human-perceivable form. You may not
modify, rent, lease, loan, distribute or create derivative works based upon
the Software and Materials in whole or in part. You may make only as many
copies of the Software and Materials as are reasonably necessary to
effectuate the permitted uses of the Software and Materials as stated in
Section 1. However, with one exception, you may use, copy, modify and
incorporate into your own programs the Software and Materials found in the
develop folder within the Periodicals folder, provided you reproduce on
each copy the Apple copyright notice and any other proprietary legends that
were on the original copy of the Software. The exception to this is the
Software and Materials for The NetWork Project article in Issue 11 of
develop, which are copyright 1989-1992 The NetWork Project, StatLab
Heidelberg and are for personal, noncommercial use only.
As Larry stated, you could use, copy, modify and incorporate into
your application sample code from the develop folder. I agree that the
statement does not clearly state that the snippets also belong to this
category, but this is the case as well. So I will talk with the people
downstairs making sure that this is also included to the license in
future.
As for MacApp, as I know we don't place any restrictions on people
extending
the framework, but we want to control who is porting over the whole
framework to another platform, and we could make a deal concerning this
as well, so it's not totally verboten.
All in all, I do think we are overstating the issue, really. If someone
really believes that we are sending out lawyers if they copy in code
from DTS.Lib, then I'm afraid we live in a scary society.
Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ks...@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
"Don't just do something! Stand there!" -- Mystery Science Theater 3000
Larry Rosenstein
Smith) wrote:
>
> state the "you may not [...] create derivative works based upon the Software
> in whole or in part". If writing an application based on MacAPP isn't a
> derivitive work, I'd like to know what is.
It seems to me that the same would be true of using the MPW libraries. As
Kent pointed out, Apple puts a general statement on its CD-ROMs, but there
are exceptions such as Snippets.
I think that if you ship a MacApp program you need to get a separate
license, which I suspect is not included in the ETO subscription. So
perhaps that would satisfy any legal concerns one my have.
Anyone who has concerns should contact the Apple Software Licensing
Department.
Larry Rosenstein
Taligent, Inc.
Johnathon Suker
>> Also, all the Tech Notes and DTS Sample Code I've seen has carried an
>> explict statement that you can use this and distribute it, provided you do
>> not sell it.
>statement does not clearly state that the snippets also belong to this
>category, but this is the case as well. So I will talk with the people
>downstairs making sure that this is also included to the license in
>future.
Kent,
I came onto this thread rather late, but I am writing a program
that uses some code from one of the TechNotes (it is a generic socket
listener) also from TechNote 18. When done I wanted to release this
program as shareware/freeware (I havent decided yet). Am I to assume
I now cannot? I am modifying the code for my purposes but you can only
write an event loop so many ways and so I used the TechNote code. Do
I now have to re-write all of it or just give Apple credit (which I
was going to do anyway)?
Thanks for the information in advance,
Johnathon
--
Johnathon Suker | If I were human I believe the proper
University of California, Irvine | response would be, 'Go To Hell'. If I
Univeristy Library | were human.
jls...@UCI.EDU | Spock - ST:TUC