Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro.

[Ant]

Hello.

Over 30 minutes ago, my client and I were unable to boot up a 15" 2008
MacBook Pro, with Mac OS X El Capitan v10.11.6, after it was accidently
powered off from its physical move between tables with its power cable
connected (still have its original battery inside). We tried unplugging
everything (USB mouse and printer) and letting it cool down (was pretty
warm in high 60F degrees kitchen). The only thing that still works is
its MagSafe's light (green). I didn't smell anything burning either.

Is this over decade old machine finally dead? :(
--
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the top of a cup of pudding, you probably have no idea that the only
thing between you and disaster is the strength of that pudding skin."
--Jack Handey from Saturday Night Live
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org /
/ /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

[Alan Baker]

On 2019-04-02 11:05 a.m., Ant wrote:
> Hello.
>
> Over 30 minutes ago, my client and I were unable to boot up a 15" 2008
> MacBook Pro, with Mac OS X El Capitan v10.11.6, after it was accidently
> powered off from its physical move between tables with its power cable
> connected (still have its original battery inside). We tried unplugging
> everything (USB mouse and printer) and letting it cool down (was pretty
> warm in high 60F degrees kitchen). The only thing that still works is
> its MagSafe's light (green). I didn't smell anything burning either.
>
> Is this over decade old machine finally dead? :(
>

So I'm assuming you get no startup chime, no indication at all that the
machine is trying to start?

<https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT201295>

[Ant]

Woah. Quick answer already. Thanks. "Yes, you are correct sir." --Ed
McMann. NOTHING. I don't even hear its HDD.


> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT201295>

It mentioned to remove its battery. I decided to try powering it on
without it. It worked! Hmm, I guess I can get recycle this battery
finally since this very old and slow machine is rarely used. I wonder if
it new battery replacements are very cheap and even worth it even if it
is rarely used (always connected to power AC on a desk).

[YK]

On 4/2/19 2:23 PM, Ant wrote:
> In comp.sys.mac.portables Alan Baker <nu...@ness.biz> wrote:
>> On 2019-04-02 11:05 a.m., Ant wrote:
>>> Hello.
>>>
>>> Over 30 minutes ago, my client and I were unable to boot up a 15" 2008
>>> MacBook Pro, with Mac OS X El Capitan v10.11.6, after it was accidently
>>> powered off from its physical move between tables with its power cable
>>> connected (still have its original battery inside). We tried unplugging
>>> everything (USB mouse and printer) and letting it cool down (was pretty
>>> warm in high 60F degrees kitchen). The only thing that still works is
>>> its MagSafe's light (green). I didn't smell anything burning either.
>>>
>>> Is this over decade old machine finally dead? :(
>>>
>
>> So I'm assuming you get no startup chime, no indication at all that the
>> machine is trying to start?
>
> Woah. Quick answer already. Thanks. "Yes, you are correct sir." --Ed
> McMann. NOTHING. I don't even hear its HDD.
>
>
>> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT201295>
>
> It mentioned to remove its battery. I decided to try powering it on
> without it. It worked! Hmm, I guess I can get recycle this battery
> finally since this very old and slow machine is rarely used. I wonder if
> it new battery replacements are very cheap and even worth it even if it
> is rarely used (always connected to power AC on a desk).
>

Have you tried resetting the SMC? https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201295

[Alan Baker]

On 2019-04-02 4:29 p.m., YK wrote:
> On 4/2/19 2:23 PM, Ant wrote:
>> In comp.sys.mac.portables Alan Baker <nu...@ness.biz> wrote:
>>> On 2019-04-02 11:05 a.m., Ant wrote:
>>>> Hello.
>>>>
>>>> Over 30 minutes ago, my client and I were unable to boot up a 15" 2008
>>>> MacBook Pro, with Mac OS X El Capitan v10.11.6, after it was accidently
>>>> powered off from its physical move between tables with its power cable
>>>> connected (still have its original battery inside). We tried unplugging
>>>> everything (USB mouse and printer) and letting it cool down (was pretty
>>>> warm in high 60F degrees kitchen). The only thing that still works is
>>>> its MagSafe's light (green). I didn't smell anything burning either.
>>>>
>>>> Is this over decade old machine finally dead? :(
>>>>
>>
>>> So I'm assuming you get no startup chime, no indication at all that the
>>> machine is trying to start?
>>
>> Woah. Quick answer already. Thanks. "Yes, you are correct sir." --Ed
>> McMann. NOTHING. I don't even hear its HDD.
>>
>>
>>> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT201295>

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||


>>
>> It mentioned to remove its battery. I decided to try powering it on
>> without it. It worked! Hmm, I guess I can get recycle this battery
>> finally since this very old and slow machine is rarely used. I wonder if
>> it new battery replacements are very cheap and even worth it even if it
>> is rarely used (always connected to power AC on a desk).
>>
>
> Have you tried resetting the SMC?  https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201295

Have you tried reading what was already in the post to which you were
replying?

:-)

[ErikRS]

Ant wrote:
> In comp.sys.mac.portables Alan Baker <nu...@ness.biz> wrote:
>> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT201295>
>
> It mentioned to remove its battery. I decided to try powering it on
> without it. It worked! Hmm, I guess I can get recycle this battery
> finally since this very old and slow machine is rarely used. I wonder if
> it new battery replacements are very cheap and even worth it even if it
> is rarely used (always connected to power AC on a desk).

I had a similar problem with the 15" MBP Late07. Sometimes it chimed and
then just 'died', sometimes nothing when pressing the start button. So
my guess is that the controlling chip on the orig. battery has died.
When/if this happens, the MBP won't boot - no chime, nothing... - As you
already have found out removing the battery partially solves the problem
booting the MBP.

So I'll recommend to buy a new battery for it. I found some quite good
and affordable batteries in a UK based webstore with even higher
capacity than the original. Price was only apprx. £16 + shipping to
Denmark. I bought 2 pcs. apprx. £43 incl. FirstClass Royal Mail. - This
is less than half of what *1* orig. battery will cost!

A full charge lasts apprx. 5,5 hours which is fairly good for the Late07
and the 2008 models.

Find the battery model number and just search on eBay.com, and I think
you can get these 3.-party batteries just as cheap in the US.

Cheers, Erik Richard

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Erik Richard Sørensen <mac-d...@MOVEstofanet.dk>
NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Text Processing - www.nisus.com
Openoffice.org - The Modern Productivity Solution - www.openoffice.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Wade Garrett]

Have never purchased a laptop battery but several years back, I needed a
few extra specialty batteries for Canon digital SLR cameras in the US.

The Canon brand batteries were quite expensive so I ordered some third
party ones from a couple of highly rated Ebay sellers. That was a
mistake- three to four day self-discharge, limited number of pictures
using them in the cameras and they got pretty hot when charging.

Not sure it things are any better these days- or if I just picked bad
vendors back then- or if laptop batteries are a different story than
camera batteries.

--
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.
- Winston Churchill

[Alan Browne]

On 2019-04-04 18:22, Wade Garrett wrote:

> The Canon brand batteries were quite expensive so I ordered some third
> party ones from a couple of highly rated Ebay sellers. That was a
> mistake- three to four day self-discharge, limited number of pictures
> using them in the cameras and they got pretty hot when charging.
>
> Not sure it things are any better these days- or if I just picked bad
> vendors back then- or if laptop batteries are a different story than
> camera batteries.

You picked a bad vendor. I've bought several DSLR batts w/o issue. One
of them was far better than OEM in terms of capacity (and performed to
that spec too...)

--
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants. Proof that we
need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
- unknown protester

[Ant]

In comp.sys.mac.portables ErikRS <mac-...@is.invalid> wrote:


> Ant wrote:
> > In comp.sys.mac.portables Alan Baker <nu...@ness.biz> wrote:
> >> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT201295>
> >
> > It mentioned to remove its battery. I decided to try powering it on
> > without it. It worked! Hmm, I guess I can get recycle this battery
> > finally since this very old and slow machine is rarely used. I wonder if
> > it new battery replacements are very cheap and even worth it even if it
> > is rarely used (always connected to power AC on a desk).

> I had a similar problem with the 15" MBP Late07. Sometimes it chimed and
> then just 'died', sometimes nothing when pressing the start button. So
> my guess is that the controlling chip on the orig. battery has died.
> When/if this happens, the MBP won't boot - no chime, nothing... - As you
> already have found out removing the battery partially solves the problem
> booting the MBP.

> So I'll recommend to buy a new battery for it. I found some quite good
> and affordable batteries in a UK based webstore with even higher
> capacity than the original. Price was only apprx. £16 + shipping to
> Denmark. I bought 2 pcs. apprx. £43 incl. FirstClass Royal Mail. - This
> is less than half of what *1* orig. battery will cost!

> A full charge lasts apprx. 5,5 hours which is fairly good for the Late07
> and the 2008 models.

> Find the battery model number and just search on eBay.com, and I think
> you can get these 3.-party batteries just as cheap in the US.

My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.

[Lewis]

In message <q8602p$78t$1...@news.albasani.net> Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
> The Canon brand batteries were quite expensive so I ordered some third
> party ones from a couple of highly rated Ebay sellers.

There is no such thing as a reputable eBay seller, and the more highly
rated they are, the more likely it is they are scammers.

There is a reason I and my friends call it "fleabay" because it is about
as reputable as a flea market.

--
I went to a restaurant that serves "breakfast at any time". So I ordered French Toast during the Renaissance.

[nospam]

In article <T_Gdnd9wha3SUTvB...@earthlink.com>, Ant

<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>
> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.

don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.

[nospam]

In article <ggpbto...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger

<jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> >> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
> >> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
> >
> > don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
> > there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>

> ...which can result in volume corruption and data loss.

true, but i've not seen that happen.

the big issue is that it's much slower, roughly half-speed.

[David in Devon]

Is that the same on non-Apple hardware?


-- D.

[nospam]

In article <MGLpE.61913$0n2....@fx28.fr7>, David in Devon

<BDo...@REMOVE.gmail.com> wrote:

> >>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
> >>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
> >>>
> >>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
> >>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
> >>
> >> ...which can result in volume corruption and data loss.
> >
> > true, but i've not seen that happen.
> >
> > the big issue is that it's much slower, roughly half-speed.
>
> Is that the same on non-Apple hardware?

depends on the hardware.

[David in Devon]

How about a Toshiba Satellite laptop?


--
D.

[nospam]

In article <CPLpE.61914$0n2....@fx28.fr7>, David in Devon

how about doing your own research.

[Alan Browne]

Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?

[David in Devon]

On 05/04/2019 20:08, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2019-04-05 08:29, nospam wrote:
>> In article <T_Gdnd9wha3SUTvB...@earthlink.com>, Ant
>> <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
>>
>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>
> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?

Exactly why *I* asked nospam.

D.

[nospam]

In article <qYydnZ4WX4YxOjrB...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> >>
> >> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
> >> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
> >
> > don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
> > there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>
> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?

because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
alone can source.

[nospam]

In article <00OpE.1228$g16...@fx26.fr7>, David in Devon

<BDo...@REMOVE.gmail.com> wrote:

> >>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
> >>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
> >>
> >> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
> >> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
> >
> > Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
>
> Exactly why *I* asked nospam.

you didn't ask that.

what you asked about was non-apple hardware, which is irrelevant for
this newsgroup.

[David in Devon]

Bullshit

[danny burstein]

[snippeth]

>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>>
>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?

>Exactly why *I* asked nospam.

this is, indeed, a real issue. Sometimes...

The power draw as the drive starts spinning up might easily
be more than the transformer can provide.

For argument's sake, let's just say the wall wart can
provide 50 watts. The basic draw of the unit might
be 35. Call it 45 when charging the battery.

However, when the drives start up (and other items
with initial surges, too), they might be trying to
get 100 watts. Yeah, only for a couple of seconds,
or maybe just a fraction of one, but that's more
than the power cord will have at hand.

The battery provides those extra electrons...



--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

[danny burstein]

In <TaOpE.846$Df6...@fx30.fr7> David in Devon <BDo...@REMOVE.gmail.com> writes:

>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
>> alone can source.

>Bullshit

Do you enjoy demonstrating just how dumb you are?

[Panthera Tigris Altaica]

It depends on the charger. Apple made multiple chargers which would work
with that model. The lower-end ones simply didn't provide the power
necessary to run the CPU at max by themselves, they needed battery power
as well. This meant that, yes, when running at full power, the laptops
would slowly lose charge even when plugged in. Fortunately this was only
for peak CPU usage, which was not usually prolonged, so the battery
would start to charge again when the CPU usage went down. Or the user
could just get a more powerful charger.

Note that this still happens with some devices. If I use the standard
iPhone charger with my iPhone 6 while I'm running something CPU
intensive, such as Civilization 6, the iPhone will lose charge, slowly.
If I use a more powerful charger, either a 3rd-party charger such as the
Belkin I normally carry in my laptop bag, or the charger for an iPad,
this does not happen. The iPad itself has been known to slowly lose
charge when plugged into the USB port in my car, a Toyota, if I'm
running intensive apps on it.

[Panthera Tigris Altaica]

On 2019-04-05 16:05, danny burstein wrote:
> In <TaOpE.846$Df6...@fx30.fr7> David in Devon <BDo...@REMOVE.gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
>>> alone can source.
>
>> Bullshit
>
> Do you enjoy demonstrating just how dumb you are?
>

He must, he does it so often.

[nospam]

In article <q88ccb$rv$1...@reader2.panix.com>, danny burstein

<dan...@panix.com> wrote:

> >>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
> >>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
> >>
> >> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
>
> >Exactly why *I* asked nospam.
>
> this is, indeed, a real issue. Sometimes...
>
> The power draw as the drive starts spinning up might easily
> be more than the transformer can provide.
>
> For argument's sake, let's just say the wall wart can
> provide 50 watts. The basic draw of the unit might
> be 35. Call it 45 when charging the battery.
>
> However, when the drives start up (and other items
> with initial surges, too), they might be trying to
> get 100 watts. Yeah, only for a couple of seconds,
> or maybe just a fraction of one, but that's more
> than the power cord will have at hand.
>
> The battery provides those extra electrons...

yep.

the original mac portable (and probably the powerbook 100 which was a
shrunken down version) would not run *at* *all* without a battery.

[David in Devon]

On 05/04/2019 20:35, nospam wrote:

I suspect that you failed to answer because you don't KNOW the answer.

THREE newsgroups are involved.

[nospam]

In article <7lPpE.15388$Kb7....@fx09.fr7>, David in Devon

<BDo...@REMOVE.gmail.com> wrote:

> >
> >>>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
> >>>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
> >>>>
> >>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
> >>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
> >>>
> >>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
> >>
> >> Exactly why *I* asked nospam.
> >
> > you didn't ask that.
> >
> > what you asked about was non-apple hardware, which is irrelevant for
> > this newsgroup.
>
> I suspect that you failed to answer because you don't KNOW the answer.

i didn't fail to answer nor did you ask what you claim to have asked.

not only are you again wrong yet again, but you continue to demonstrate
just how incredibly stupid you are.

> THREE newsgroups are involved.

so what?

[Alan Baker]

On 2019-04-05 1:59 p.m., David in Devon wrote:
> On 05/04/2019 20:35, nospam wrote:
>> In article <00OpE.1228$g16...@fx26.fr7>, David in Devon
>> <BDo...@REMOVE.gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up
>>>>>> normally.
>>>>>
>>>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
>>>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>>>>
>>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
>>>
>>> Exactly why *I* asked nospam.
>>
>> you didn't ask that.

You didn't ask whether it would run slower without a battery or why it
would do so.

[David in Devon]

Thank you for your sensible answer. :-)

I've never owned an Apple laptop so defer to your experience. I have
used other types of laptop since the 1980's and have never had a problem
running on a power supply with or without the battery being fitted.

The inverter on my narrowboat isn't a pure sine wave device. I've had no
problem so far, over a number of years, in charging our iPhones and iPad
but am just a little concerned that I may have a problem with my brand
new iPad Pro. Do you have sufficient knowledge to comment on this?

--
David B.
Devon, UK

[David in Devon]

It's probably an age thing. :-)

>> THREE newsgroups are involved.
>
> so what?

You said "which is irrelevant for
*THIS* newsgroup."

You should pay more attention to detail, dopey. :-P

[David in Devon]

On 05/04/2019 22:08, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2019-04-05 1:59 p.m., David in Devon wrote:
>> On 05/04/2019 20:35, nospam wrote:
>>> In article <00OpE.1228$g16...@fx26.fr7>, David in Devon
>>> <BDo...@REMOVE.gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up
>>>>>>> normally.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power
>>>>>> glitch.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
>>>>
>>>> Exactly why *I* asked nospam.
>>>
>>> you didn't ask that.
>
> You didn't ask whether it would run slower without a battery or why it
> would do so.

You are correct. I shall endeavour to be more precise.

[Alan Baker]

It's irrelevant to all the other groups included as well, twit.

[Panthera Tigris Altaica]

You asked no such question. The exact exchange was:

On 05/04/2019 17:40, nospam wrote:
> In article <ggpbto...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger

> <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
>>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up
normally.
>>>
>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>>

>> ...which can result in volume corruption and data loss.
>
> true, but i've not seen that happen.
>

> the big issue is that it's much slower, roughly half-speed.

Is that the same on non-Apple hardware?

-- D.


>
> THREE newsgroups are involved.

irrelevant.

[David in Devon]

Are you deliberately obtuse, Alan?

D.

[nospam]

In article <kDPpE.1836$0E1...@fx22.fr7>, David in Devon

<BDo...@REMOVE.gmail.com> wrote:

> >>>>
> >>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
> >>>
> >>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
> >>> alone can source.
> >>
> >> Bullshit
> >
> > It depends on the charger. Apple made multiple chargers which would work
> > with that model. The lower-end ones simply didn't provide the power
> > necessary to run the CPU at max by themselves, they needed battery power
> > as well. This meant that, yes, when running at full power, the laptops
> > would slowly lose charge even when plugged in. Fortunately this was only
> > for peak CPU usage, which was not usually prolonged, so the battery
> > would start to charge again when the CPU usage went down. Or the user
> > could just get a more powerful charger.
> >
> > Note that this still happens with some devices. If I use the standard
> > iPhone charger with my iPhone 6 while I'm running something CPU
> > intensive, such as Civilization 6, the iPhone will lose charge, slowly.
> > If I use a more powerful charger, either a 3rd-party charger such as the
> > Belkin I normally carry in my laptop bag, or the charger for an iPad,
> > this does not happen. The iPad itself has been known to slowly lose
> > charge when plugged into the USB port in my car, a Toyota, if I'm
> > running intensive apps on it.
>
> Thank you for your sensible answer. :-)
>
> I've never owned an Apple laptop so defer to your experience.

then why did you say bullshit?

> I have
> used other types of laptop since the 1980's and have never had a problem
> running on a power supply with or without the battery being fitted.

what other mystery unnamed laptops you supposedly used do is irrelevant
and it's highly unlikely you know how to properly determine anything,
but even if you didn't notice a speed decrease in your very limited
experience, that doesn't mean all other laptops ever made will function
in the same manner.

> The inverter on my narrowboat isn't a pure sine wave device. I've had no
> problem so far, over a number of years, in charging our iPhones and iPad
> but am just a little concerned that I may have a problem with my brand
> new iPad Pro. Do you have sufficient knowledge to comment on this?

yes, i do. in fact, more than sufficient.

[nospam]

In article <aQPpE.64950$C44....@fx16.fr7>, David in Devon

<BDo...@REMOVE.gmail.com> wrote:

> >>>>>
> >>>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
> >>>>
> >>>> Exactly why *I* asked nospam.
> >>>
> >>> you didn't ask that.
> >
> > You didn't ask whether it would run slower without a battery or why it
> > would do so.
>
> You are correct. I shall endeavour to be more precise.

some things are simply not possible.

[nospam]

In article <VOPpE.64949$C44....@fx16.fr7>, David in Devon

<BDo...@REMOVE.gmail.com> wrote:

> >>>>>
> >>>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
> >>>>
> >>>> Exactly why *I* asked nospam.
> >>>
> >>> you didn't ask that.
> >>>
> >>> what you asked about was non-apple hardware, which is irrelevant for
> >>> this newsgroup.
> >>
> >> I suspect that you failed to answer because you don't KNOW the answer.
> >
> > i didn't fail to answer nor did you ask what you claim to have asked.
> >
> > not only are you again wrong yet again, but you continue to demonstrate
> > just how incredibly stupid you are.
>
> It's probably an age thing. :-)

no, it's definitely not.

it's a mental deficiency thing.

[David in Devon]

Maybe because so many of your responses on Usenet newsgroups are totally
unreliable.

>> I have
>> used other types of laptop since the 1980's and have never had a problem
>> running on a power supply with or without the battery being fitted.
>
> what other mystery unnamed laptops you supposedly used do is irrelevant
> and it's highly unlikely you know how to properly determine anything,
> but even if you didn't notice a speed decrease in your very limited
> experience, that doesn't mean all other laptops ever made will function
> in the same manner.

True

>> The inverter on my narrowboat isn't a pure sine wave device. I've had no
>> problem so far, over a number of years, in charging our iPhones and iPad
>> but am just a little concerned that I may have a problem with my brand
>> new iPad Pro. Do you have sufficient knowledge to comment on this?
>
> yes, i do. in fact, more than sufficient.

You so often boast, but then fail to help others with their queries.

I doubt you have ANY experience with the new iPad Pro.


D.

[nospam]

In article <N_PpE.847$Df6...@fx30.fr7>, David in Devon

more accurately, because you're trolling.

> >> I have
> >> used other types of laptop since the 1980's and have never had a problem
> >> running on a power supply with or without the battery being fitted.
> >
> > what other mystery unnamed laptops you supposedly used do is irrelevant
> > and it's highly unlikely you know how to properly determine anything,
> > but even if you didn't notice a speed decrease in your very limited
> > experience, that doesn't mean all other laptops ever made will function
> > in the same manner.
>
> True

in other words, you're wrong yet again.

> >> The inverter on my narrowboat isn't a pure sine wave device. I've had no
> >> problem so far, over a number of years, in charging our iPhones and iPad
> >> but am just a little concerned that I may have a problem with my brand
> >> new iPad Pro. Do you have sufficient knowledge to comment on this?
> >
> > yes, i do. in fact, more than sufficient.
>
> You so often boast, but then fail to help others with their queries.

wrong. i helped in this very thread.

> I doubt you have ANY experience with the new iPad Pro.

you have *no* idea what my experience is with any product and your
question is not specific to an ipad pro anyway.

in fact, it's clear that you don't understand what it is you're even
asking.

[David in Devon]

On 05/04/2019 21:04, danny burstein wrote:
> [snippeth]
>
>>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
>>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>>>
>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
>
>> Exactly why *I* asked nospam.
>
> this is, indeed, a real issue. Sometimes...
>
> The power draw as the drive starts spinning up might easily
> be more than the transformer can provide.
>
> For argument's sake, let's just say the wall wart can
> provide 50 watts. The basic draw of the unit might
> be 35. Call it 45 when charging the battery.
>
> However, when the drives start up (and other items
> with initial surges, too), they might be trying to
> get 100 watts. Yeah, only for a couple of seconds,
> or maybe just a fraction of one, but that's more
> than the power cord will have at hand.
>
> The battery provides those extra electrons...

This sounds plausible. Thank you.

Perhaps a failing in early Apple laptops?

I have no experience of an Apple laptop - just an iMac for the past 10
years and an iPad and iPhones for less time.

D.

[Alan Baker]

Nope.

You tried to rebut his comment about the irrelevance of non-Apple
hardware to this particular Mac group with the fact that "THREE
newsgroups ARE involved"...

...but they are ALL Mac newsgroups, you twit.

[Alan Baker]

It's a character deficiency thing.

[nospam]

In article <U4QpE.61916$0n2....@fx28.fr7>, David in Devon

<BDo...@REMOVE.gmail.com> wrote:

> >>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
> >>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
> >>>
> >>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
> >
> >> Exactly why *I* asked nospam.
> >
> > this is, indeed, a real issue. Sometimes...
> >
> > The power draw as the drive starts spinning up might easily
> > be more than the transformer can provide.
> >
> > For argument's sake, let's just say the wall wart can
> > provide 50 watts. The basic draw of the unit might
> > be 35. Call it 45 when charging the battery.
> >
> > However, when the drives start up (and other items
> > with initial surges, too), they might be trying to
> > get 100 watts. Yeah, only for a couple of seconds,
> > or maybe just a fraction of one, but that's more
> > than the power cord will have at hand.
> >
> > The battery provides those extra electrons...
>
> This sounds plausible. Thank you.
>
> Perhaps a failing in early Apple laptops?

no, nor is it specific to apple.

> I have no experience of an Apple laptop - just an iMac for the past 10
> years and an iPad and iPhones for less time.

then stop pretending that you do and bashing others for having answers.

[nospam]

In article <q88ir8$rkk$2...@gioia.aioe.org>, Alan Baker <nu...@ness.biz>
wrote:

> >>> not only are you again wrong yet again, but you continue to demonstrate
> >>> just how incredibly stupid you are.
> >>
> >> It's probably an age thing. :-)
> >
> > no, it's definitely not.
> >
> > it's a mental deficiency thing.
> >
>
> It's a character deficiency thing.

both.

[Panthera Tigris Altaica]

He has no character.

[Alan Baker]

That would be the deficiency, yes.

:-)

[Ant]

In comp.sys.mac.portables Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2019-04-05 08:29, nospam wrote:
> > In article <T_Gdnd9wha3SUTvB...@earthlink.com>, Ant

> > <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
> >> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
> >

> > don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
> > there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.

> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?

Ditto. That makes no sense. Its speed seem the same with and without its
original battery to me.

--
Quote of the Week: "If you're an ant, and you're walking along across
the top of a cup of pudding, you probably have no idea that the only
thing between you and disaster is the strength of that pudding skin."
--Jack Handey from Saturday Night Live
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org /
/ /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

[David in Devon]

On 06/04/2019 03:55, Ant wrote:
> In comp.sys.mac.portables Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2019-04-05 08:29, nospam wrote:
>>> In article <T_Gdnd9wha3SUTvB...@earthlink.com>, Ant
>>> <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
>>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
>>>
>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>
>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
>
> Ditto. That makes no sense. Its speed seem the same with and without its
> original battery to me.

That has been my experience too - but not on laptops OTHER than Apple
ones. Maybe it's an Apple failing in this regard.

I used to plug my ex-work IBM Thinkpad directly into the 12V supply on
my narrowboat instead of using the IBM supplied 220V AC lead with
transformer/rectifier which supplied 18V DC. It worked exactly the same,
as far as I could tell, on either 12V or 18V. ;-)

[nospam]

In article <TMZpE.2102$wd2...@fx24.fr7>, David in Devon

<BDo...@REMOVE.gmail.com> wrote:


> >
> >> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
> >
> > Ditto. That makes no sense. Its speed seem the same with and without its
> > original battery to me.
>
> That has been my experience too - but not on laptops OTHER than Apple
> ones. Maybe it's an Apple failing in this regard.

the only failing is your lack of understanding.

> I used to plug my ex-work IBM Thinkpad directly into the 12V supply on
> my narrowboat instead of using the IBM supplied 220V AC lead with
> transformer/rectifier which supplied 18V DC. It worked exactly the same,
> as far as I could tell, on either 12V or 18V. ;-)

that's not the issue.

[nospam]

In article <mMmdnUl1wpu-iDXB...@earthlink.com>, Ant

<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> > >> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
> > >> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
> > >
> > > don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
> > > there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>
> > Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
>
> Ditto. That makes no sense. Its speed seem the same with and without its
> original battery to me.

try something processor intensive.

[Alan Browne]

On 2019-04-05 15:35, nospam wrote:
> In article <qYydnZ4WX4YxOjrB...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

> <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
>>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
>>>
>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>>
>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
>

> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
> alone can source.

Few run their laptop at peak demand constantly. And if they did then
the battery would deplete.

So I wouldn't be too concerned with that configuration.

--
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants. Proof that we
need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
- unknown protester

[nospam]

In article <WNadncK4XKTCJzXB...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> >>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
> >>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
> >>>
> >>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
> >>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
> >>
> >> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
> >
> > because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
> > alone can source.
>
> Few run their laptop at peak demand constantly. And if they did then
> the battery would deplete.

constant isn't the problem.

*any* peak demand could cause an unexpected shutdown, and to avoid that
possibility, it runs slower.

> So I wouldn't be too concerned with that configuration.

there's no need to be concerned because it works perfectly fine, just
slower.

[Alan Browne]

On 2019-04-06 11:29, nospam wrote:

> In article <WNadncK4XKTCJzXB...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
>>>>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
>>>>>
>>>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
>>>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>>>>
>>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
>>>
>>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
>>> alone can source.
>>
>> Few run their laptop at peak demand constantly. And if they did then
>> the battery would deplete.
>
> constant isn't the problem.
>
> *any* peak demand could cause an unexpected shutdown, and to avoid that
> possibility, it runs slower.

So there is no issue at all for the ordinary user.

Anyway I'm fascinated and going to try this on an MBA at work. Easy
enough to load it up, put the P/S on an ampere meter and compare the
power consumption reported by iStat. I just need to rig a connector for
the amp meter.

[Lewis]

In message <1fWdnbZdaJ3CZzXB...@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2019-04-06 11:29, nospam wrote:
>> In article <WNadncK4XKTCJzXB...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
>> <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
>>>>>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
>>>>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
>>>>
>>>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
>>>> alone can source.
>>>
>>> Few run their laptop at peak demand constantly. And if they did then
>>> the battery would deplete.
>>
>> constant isn't the problem.
>>
>> *any* peak demand could cause an unexpected shutdown, and to avoid that
>> possibility, it runs slower.

> So there is no issue at all for the ordinary user.

Untrue. The computer will hit peak demand at times for any user.

> Anyway I'm fascinated and going to try this on an MBA at work. Easy
> enough to load it up, put the P/S on an ampere meter and compare the
> power consumption reported by iStat. I just need to rig a connector for
> the amp meter.

You need to run the test on a laptop with a removable battery that has
been removed. Your proposed test will show nothing about the topic at
hand.

--
You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want If you
ignore enough data.

[nospam]

In article <1fWdnbZdaJ3CZzXB...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> >>>>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
> >>>>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up
> >>>>>> normally.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
> >>>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
> >>>>
> >>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
> >>>
> >>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
> >>> alone can source.
> >>
> >> Few run their laptop at peak demand constantly. And if they did then
> >> the battery would deplete.
> >
> > constant isn't the problem.
> >
> > *any* peak demand could cause an unexpected shutdown, and to avoid that
> > possibility, it runs slower.
>
> So there is no issue at all for the ordinary user.

there absolutely is, which is why it's done, and not just apple either.

> Anyway I'm fascinated and going to try this on an MBA at work. Easy
> enough to load it up, put the P/S on an ampere meter and compare the
> power consumption reported by iStat. I just need to rig a connector for
> the amp meter.

the proper test is a benchmark, with and without a battery. for the
latter, you will need to disassemble it.

fortunately, that's been done:
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/apple-macbook-pro-battery-benchmarks,
6643.html>
Gearlogąs own results show a decrease of 36 percent in processor
speeds without a battery attached on their unibody MacBook Pro. Our
own tests show a decrease of 50 percent when rendering with one CPU,
a decrease of 52 percent in multiprocessor rendering, while the GPU
suffered a 40 percent decrease in performance.


as i said, it ain't just apple:
<https://superuser.com/questions/344230/laptop-running-slower-without-ba
ttery-attached>
I have a Thinkpad T520 and I'm monitoring my CPU using CPU-Z.

For some reason, when I detach the battery, the CPU only run till
800MHz. Whereas when I run using battery power, it goes up to
2.3GHz. I notice the difference in speed when I take the battery out.
This is the reason why I investigated in the first place.
...
This behavior is by design. Without the battery, the laptop's power
management system cannot accommodate power spikes that occur
when the CPU goes from a halted state to an active state. The laptop
is simply not designed to operate without a battery.

You might get away with it with some power supplies. But the laptop
is simply not designed to work that way. The battery acts like a
cushion to make up temporary power shortfalls.


<https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-L-R-and-SL-series/Hi-R60-running-
slow-without-battery-on-AC-power-only/td-p/80565>
What you're experiencing is perfectly normal. Your laptop was not
designed to run at full power/speed without battery.
...
Thinkpads are designed in such way that when the battery is detached
or in some cases when the battery is not working, the speed of the
CPU is throttled to prevent power shortage. The battery acts as
source of power, when the peak power requirements from the laptop
with 65 w power supply exceeds what the power adapter can supply. 

[Alan Browne]

On 2019-04-06 15:57, Lewis wrote:
> In message <1fWdnbZdaJ3CZzXB...@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2019-04-06 11:29, nospam wrote:
>>> In article <WNadncK4XKTCJzXB...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
>>> <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
>>>>>>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
>>>>>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
>>>>>
>>>>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
>>>>> alone can source.
>>>>
>>>> Few run their laptop at peak demand constantly. And if they did then
>>>> the battery would deplete.
>>>
>>> constant isn't the problem.
>>>
>>> *any* peak demand could cause an unexpected shutdown, and to avoid that
>>> possibility, it runs slower.
>
>> So there is no issue at all for the ordinary user.
>
> Untrue. The computer will hit peak demand at times for any user.

At which point it will just run slower than usual. So no issue, really.

>
>> Anyway I'm fascinated and going to try this on an MBA at work. Easy
>> enough to load it up, put the P/S on an ampere meter and compare the
>> power consumption reported by iStat. I just need to rig a connector for
>> the amp meter.
>
> You need to run the test on a laptop with a removable battery that has
> been removed. Your proposed test will show nothing about the topic at
> hand.

Of course it will. It's all in how one sets up the experiment.

If the computer is running full tilt and the external power supply can't
keep up then I should see the battery charge level fall. Keeping it at
(or near) peak for extended periods is easy enough using CPU efficient
apps like handbrake.

I'll also see the current max out on the external power supply while the
iStat data should show more total power being used than that delivered
by the external power supply.

Unfortunately I'm traveling a lot this week so I won't get to it until
after the 15th or so.

[Alan Browne]

On 2019-04-06 16:04, Jolly Roger wrote:

> On 2019-04-06, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> In article <1fWdnbZdaJ3CZzXB...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
>> <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> *any* peak demand could cause an unexpected shutdown, and to avoid
>>>> that possibility, it runs slower.
>>>
>>> So there is no issue at all for the ordinary user.
>>
>> there absolutely is, which is why it's done, and not just apple
>> either.
>>
>>> Anyway I'm fascinated and going to try this on an MBA at work. Easy
>>> enough to load it up, put the P/S on an ampere meter and compare the
>>> power consumption reported by iStat. I just need to rig a connector
>>> for the amp meter.
>>
>> the proper test is a benchmark, with and without a battery. for the
>> latter, you will need to disassemble it.
>>
>> fortunately, that's been done:
>> <https://www.tomshardware.com/news/apple-macbook-pro-battery-benchmarks,

>> 6643.html> Gearlog¹s own results show a decrease of 36 percent in

>> processor speeds without a battery attached on their unibody MacBook
>> Pro. Our own tests show a decrease of 50 percent when rendering with
>> one CPU, a decrease of 52 percent in multiprocessor rendering, while
>> the GPU suffered a 40 percent decrease in performance.
>

> "Damn those pesky facts!!!"

I'm not doubting it's true (though it did surprise me). I just like to
see things for myself.

[Alan Browne]

On 2019-04-06 15:58, nospam wrote:
> In article <1fWdnbZdaJ3CZzXB...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
>>>>>>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up
>>>>>>>> normally.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
>>>>>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
>>>>>
>>>>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
>>>>> alone can source.
>>>>
>>>> Few run their laptop at peak demand constantly. And if they did then
>>>> the battery would deplete.
>>>
>>> constant isn't the problem.
>>>
>>> *any* peak demand could cause an unexpected shutdown, and to avoid that
>>> possibility, it runs slower.
>>
>> So there is no issue at all for the ordinary user.
>
> there absolutely is, which is why it's done, and not just apple either.

No real issue. Under usual "office" conditions at work I rarely see the
CPU heavily loaded (iStat) - and that's with VMWare Fusion loaded with
Win 7 all of the time and my usual prod. apps on the Mac OS side.

>
>> Anyway I'm fascinated and going to try this on an MBA at work. Easy
>> enough to load it up, put the P/S on an ampere meter and compare the
>> power consumption reported by iStat. I just need to rig a connector for
>> the amp meter.
>
> the proper test is a benchmark, with and without a battery. for the
> latter, you will need to disassemble it.

A "proper benchmark" I agree. Seeing significant evidence of it just
requires the setup described and observation of a few parameters.

> fortunately, that's been done:

Good for them. Then you won't object if I do my own thing, will you?

[Alan Browne]

On 2019-04-06 15:58, nospam wrote:

> In article <1fWdnbZdaJ3CZzXB...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
>>>>>>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up
>>>>>>>> normally.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
>>>>>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
>>>>>
>>>>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
>>>>> alone can source.
>>>>
>>>> Few run their laptop at peak demand constantly. And if they did then
>>>> the battery would deplete.
>>>
>>> constant isn't the problem.
>>>
>>> *any* peak demand could cause an unexpected shutdown, and to avoid that
>>> possibility, it runs slower.
>>
>> So there is no issue at all for the ordinary user.
>
>

Meant to ask:

Would a larger outside P/S solve it, or is it a limitation of the
internal power supply?

[ErikRS]

Wade Garrett wrote:

> On 4/4/19 3:10 PM, ErikRS wrote:
>> Ant wrote:

>>> In comp.sys.mac.portables Alan Baker <nu...@ness.biz> wrote:
>>>> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT201295>
>>>
>>> It mentioned to remove its battery. I decided to try powering it on
>>> without it. It worked! Hmm, I guess I can get recycle this battery
>>> finally since this very old and slow machine is rarely used. I wonder if
>>> it new battery replacements are very cheap and even worth it even if it
>>> is rarely used (always connected to power AC on a desk).
>>
>> I had a similar problem with the 15" MBP Late07. Sometimes it chimed
>> and then just 'died', sometimes nothing when pressing the start
>> button. So my guess is that the controlling chip on the orig. battery
>> has died. When/if this happens, the MBP won't boot - no chime,
>> nothing... - As you already have found out removing the battery
>> partially solves the problem booting the MBP.
>>
>> So I'll recommend to buy a new battery for it. I found some quite good
>> and affordable batteries in a UK based webstore with even higher
>> capacity than the original. Price was only apprx. £16 + shipping to
>> Denmark. I bought 2 pcs. apprx. £43 incl. FirstClass Royal Mail. -
>> This is less than half of what *1* orig. battery will cost!
>>
>> A full charge lasts apprx. 5,5 hours which is fairly good for the
>> Late07 and the 2008 models.
>>
>> Find the battery model number and just search on eBay.com, and I think
>> you can get these 3.-party batteries just as cheap in the US.
>>
>> Cheers, Erik Richard
>
> Have never purchased a laptop battery but several years back, I needed a
> few extra specialty batteries for Canon digital SLR cameras in the US.
>
> The Canon brand batteries were quite expensive so I ordered some third
> party ones from a couple of highly rated Ebay sellers. That was a
> mistake- three to four day self-discharge, limited number of pictures
> using them in the cameras and they got pretty hot when charging.
>
> Not sure it things are any better these days- or if I just picked bad
> vendors back then- or if laptop batteries are a different story than
> camera batteries.

All camera & computer batteries (NiMH & LiION) will always have some
kind of discharge when not used for a smaller or longer period.

I can tell that I haven't been using my MBP for apprx. 3 months due to
I've been moving to a new apartment, but the other day I powered it up
again and the discharge had only been apprx. 15% - i.e. apprx. 85% still
left in the battery after not being used for nearly 3 months.

Reg. camera batteries - primarely now LiION - it also depends on the
camera brand and model. - I'm using more brands of cameras - Canon,
Olympus, Pentax and Sony-Monolta - right from a Canon EOS 5D II
fullframe to Olympus OM-D E-M5 II with cropfactor 2,0 and Konica-Minolta
7D and Sony ILCA A68.

Earlier I also had a EOS 450D (Rebel series in the US). This 450D
discharged the battery within a month if the camera wasn't used - no
matter whether it was the orig. Canon battery or a Patona. So does the
Konica-Minolta 7D. Therefore I now always take out the batteries when I
know that the camera won't be used for a while.

Also I never use 'noname' batteries, but only those I know are using
either Panasonic or Daimond cells. - Here in Europe the best 3.-party
batteries are Patona, MTEC, MTB, OTB and BluMaxx. These brands aren't
the cheapest, but indeed cheaper than orig. batteries. - Fx. where an
orig. battery will cost round €45-50, the best 3.-party (Patona) costs
round €15-18. - Some even as low as €12 (MTEC, MTB, OTB). - And I always
buy batteries with compatible info-chip to be sure that I can use the
orig. charger.

Because of my move to new place I also haven't been using my EOS 5D II,
but the day before yesterday I powered it on and found that there still
was apprx. 70% left in the MTEC battery. - Just to check I also powered
on the Sony A68, - this one had discharged to only apprx. 15% left -
also with a MTEC battery. - Now I'd been curious and also powered on the
Pentax K-3... Within the same apprx. 3 months of not being used it had
only lost apprx. 5% discharge - also using MTEC batteries.

Cheers, Erik Richard

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Erik Richard Sørensen <mac-d...@MOVEstofanet.dk>
NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Text Processing - www.nisus.com
Openoffice.org - The Modern Productivity Solution - www.openoffice.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[nospam]

In article <rvqdnRvXELkZizTB...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> >>>>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
> >>>>> alone can source.
> >>>>
> >>>> Few run their laptop at peak demand constantly. And if they did then
> >>>> the battery would deplete.
> >>>
> >>> constant isn't the problem.
> >>>
> >>> *any* peak demand could cause an unexpected shutdown, and to avoid that
> >>> possibility, it runs slower.
> >>
> >> So there is no issue at all for the ordinary user.
> >
> > there absolutely is, which is why it's done, and not just apple either.
>
> No real issue. Under usual "office" conditions at work I rarely see the
> CPU heavily loaded (iStat) - and that's with VMWare Fusion loaded with
> Win 7 all of the time and my usual prod. apps on the Mac OS side.

one spike is all it takes, and since that can't be predicted and it's
too late to do anything when it happens, it runs slower to avoid the
possibility of a shutdown.

> >> Anyway I'm fascinated and going to try this on an MBA at work. Easy
> >> enough to load it up, put the P/S on an ampere meter and compare the
> >> power consumption reported by iStat. I just need to rig a connector for
> >> the amp meter.
> >
> > the proper test is a benchmark, with and without a battery. for the
> > latter, you will need to disassemble it.
>
> A "proper benchmark" I agree. Seeing significant evidence of it just
> requires the setup described and observation of a few parameters.

what you describe is not likely to show much, if anything.

a single spike isn't going to have any noticeable effect on the charge
level and is probably too fast for the amp meter to respond anyway.

> > fortunately, that's been done:
>
> Good for them. Then you won't object if I do my own thing, will you?

i have no objections nor do i care what you do.

the fact is that without a battery, macbooks and also some pc laptops
will run slower.

apple used to have a tech note, which has been archived:
<https://web.archive.org/web/20130615084258/http://support.apple.com/kb/
HT2332>
If the battery is removed from a MacBook or MacBook Pro, the
computer will automatically reduce the processor speed. This prevents
the computer from shutting down if it demands more power than the A/C
adaptor alone can provide.

Additional Information
Important: It is strongly recommended that you do not use your
MacBook or MacBook Pro while the battery is removed. Accidently
bumping the A/C adaptor could disconnect power and shutdown the
computer. Any information that was not saved on your computer would
be lost.

[nospam]

In article <Cqudnf-u-YGsiDTB...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> >>>>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
> >>>>> alone can source.
> >>>>
> >>>> Few run their laptop at peak demand constantly. And if they did then
> >>>> the battery would deplete.
> >>>
> >>> constant isn't the problem.
> >>>
> >>> *any* peak demand could cause an unexpected shutdown, and to avoid that
> >>> possibility, it runs slower.
> >
> >> So there is no issue at all for the ordinary user.
> >
> > Untrue. The computer will hit peak demand at times for any user.
>
> At which point it will just run slower than usual. So no issue, really.

at that point, it's too late, so yes issue.

> >> Anyway I'm fascinated and going to try this on an MBA at work. Easy
> >> enough to load it up, put the P/S on an ampere meter and compare the
> >> power consumption reported by iStat. I just need to rig a connector for
> >> the amp meter.
> >
> > You need to run the test on a laptop with a removable battery that has
> > been removed. Your proposed test will show nothing about the topic at
> > hand.
>
> Of course it will. It's all in how one sets up the experiment.

except that what you've described won't do that.

> If the computer is running full tilt and the external power supply can't
> keep up then I should see the battery charge level fall. Keeping it at
> (or near) peak for extended periods is easy enough using CPU efficient
> apps like handbrake.

a single sudden spike won't cause a noticeable change in battery charge
level.

> I'll also see the current max out on the external power supply while the
> iStat data should show more total power being used than that delivered
> by the external power supply.

you might see it max out, but that doesn't tell you what would happen
with a spike, which you won't be able to invoke on demand.

> Unfortunately I'm traveling a lot this week so I won't get to it until
> after the 15th or so.

best to use that time to rethink what you're testing.

[nospam]

In article <VL6dnTaeO565hzTB...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> >>>> Few run their laptop at peak demand constantly. And if they did then
> >>>> the battery would deplete.
> >>>
> >>> constant isn't the problem.
> >>>
> >>> *any* peak demand could cause an unexpected shutdown, and to avoid that
> >>> possibility, it runs slower.
> >>
> >> So there is no issue at all for the ordinary user.
> >
>
> Meant to ask:
>
> Would a larger outside P/S solve it, or is it a limitation of the
> internal power supply?

that depends on how it's designed.

the current design is that it runs slower without a battery.

running without a battery is highly unusual as it is, so checking for
the even less likely possibility that there's no battery *and* a higher
power adapter connected than what originally shipped with the computer
is not worth the effort.

[David in Devon]

On 08/04/2019 02:05, nospam wrote:
> one spike is all it takes

Takes to do WHAT, exactly?

[Wade Garrett]

On 4/4/19 6:36 PM, Alan Browne wrote:

> On 2019-04-04 18:22, Wade Garrett wrote:
>
>> The Canon brand batteries were quite expensive so I ordered some third
>> party ones from a couple of highly rated Ebay sellers. That was a
>> mistake- three to four day self-discharge, limited number of pictures
>> using them in the cameras and they got pretty hot when charging.
>>
>> Not sure it things are any better these days- or if I just picked bad
>> vendors back then- or if laptop batteries are a different story than
>> camera batteries.
>

> You picked a bad vendor.  I've bought several DSLR batts w/o issue.  One
> of them was far better than OEM in terms of capacity (and performed to
> that spec too...)
>
Would you happen to recall the battery brand or Ebay seller? I could use
a couple more Canon DSLR batteries

[nospam]

In article <CPFqE.29058$2A5....@fx10.fr7>, David in Devon

<BDo...@REMOVE.gmail.com> wrote:

> > one spike is all it takes
>
> Takes to do WHAT, exactly?

that was clearly explained in the thread, and more than once.

[Wade Garrett]

On 4/5/19 12:04 AM, Lewis wrote:

> In message <q8602p$78t$1...@news.albasani.net> Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
>> The Canon brand batteries were quite expensive so I ordered some third
>> party ones from a couple of highly rated Ebay sellers.
>

> There is no such thing as a reputable eBay seller, and the more highly
> rated they are, the more likely it is they are scammers.
>
> There is a reason I and my friends call it "fleabay" because it is about
> as reputable as a flea market.
>

No doubt there are some bad operators and even outright crooks on Ebay.

But if things were as bleak as you say, I doubt he platform could have
lasted as long as it has and been as financially successful...

--
Psychology Question: With so many celebrities, entertainers and
professional athletes having modest educational credentials and
narrowly-focused life experience, why do folks pay any mind to their
outspoken, vociferous lay opinions on political, social, economic and
scientific issues?

[David in Devon]

If that IS so, please post MIDs

[nospam]

In article <2xJqE.22892$6e1....@fx19.fr7>, David in Devon

<BDo...@REMOVE.gmail.com> wrote:

> >>> one spike is all it takes
> >>
> >> Takes to do WHAT, exactly?
> >
> > that was clearly explained in the thread, and more than once.
>
> If that IS so, please post MIDs

reread the thread and you'll find what you seek.

[David in Devon]

On 05/04/2019 22:50, nospam wrote:
> In article <N_PpE.847$Df6...@fx30.fr7>, David in Devon
> <BDo...@REMOVE.gmail.com> wrote:
[....]
>> You so often boast, but then fail to help others with their queries.
>
> wrong. i helped in this very thread.

I don't think you've helped in ANY way. :-(

>> I doubt you have ANY experience with the new iPad Pro.
>
> you have *no* idea what my experience is with any product and your
> question is not specific to an ipad pro anyway.
>
> in fact, it's clear that you don't understand what it is you're even
> asking.

*Do* you have ANY hands-on experience with the new iMac Pro?

D.

[David in Devon]

Thank you *SO* much, 'nospam'.

Your parents must be so very proud of you.