Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Free software development?
9 views
Skip to first unread message
lcrocker
May 24, 2013, 7:02:25 AM5/24/13
to
I'm a Linux guy. But I've occasionally had to write things for
Windows, so I use tools like MinGW that provide a full toolchain for
Windows development. I'd like to write stuff for Apple devices as
well.
I've spent several hours Googling, but I can't find any straight
answer to what seems like a simple question to me: is there any
toolchain for doing MacOS and/or iOS free software development?
Everything I've seen (like THEOS, OpenDev) requires XCode, and XCode
requires I agree to their terms of service that limit what I'm
allowed
to do with my own code. There used to be a thing called GCC
installer,
but it seems to have been abandoned in favor of something called
"command line tools", which requires an Apple ID (and therefore
agreement with Apple TOS) to download.
So, is there any way to develop free software for OSX or IOS without
making myself Apple's bitch?
Windows, so I use tools like MinGW that provide a full toolchain for
Windows development. I'd like to write stuff for Apple devices as
well.
I've spent several hours Googling, but I can't find any straight
answer to what seems like a simple question to me: is there any
toolchain for doing MacOS and/or iOS free software development?
Everything I've seen (like THEOS, OpenDev) requires XCode, and XCode
requires I agree to their terms of service that limit what I'm
allowed
to do with my own code. There used to be a thing called GCC
installer,
but it seems to have been abandoned in favor of something called
"command line tools", which requires an Apple ID (and therefore
agreement with Apple TOS) to download.
So, is there any way to develop free software for OSX or IOS without
making myself Apple's bitch?
lcrocker
May 24, 2013, 7:02:54 AM5/24/13
to
Chris Ridd
May 24, 2013, 7:39:15 AM5/24/13
to
On 2013-05-24 11:02:25 +0000, lcrocker said:
> I'm a Linux guy. But I've occasionally had to write things for
> Windows, so I use tools like MinGW that provide a full toolchain for
> Windows development. I'd like to write stuff for Apple devices as
> well.
> I've spent several hours Googling, but I can't find any straight
> answer to what seems like a simple question to me: is there any
> toolchain for doing MacOS and/or iOS free software development?
> Everything I've seen (like THEOS, OpenDev) requires XCode, and XCode
> requires I agree to their terms of service that limit what I'm
> allowed
> to do with my own code.
What specifically don't you like in the terms and conditions? Clearly
> I'm a Linux guy. But I've occasionally had to write things for
> Windows, so I use tools like MinGW that provide a full toolchain for
> Windows development. I'd like to write stuff for Apple devices as
> well.
> I've spent several hours Googling, but I can't find any straight
> answer to what seems like a simple question to me: is there any
> toolchain for doing MacOS and/or iOS free software development?
> Everything I've seen (like THEOS, OpenDev) requires XCode, and XCode
> requires I agree to their terms of service that limit what I'm
> allowed
> to do with my own code.
folks are able to use to write all sorts of freeware/public domain
code, so maybe your concerns are unfounded.
--
Chris
Lee Crocker
May 24, 2013, 8:11:55 AM5/24/13
to
name and address. Secondly, this is from the TOS:
"You understand and agree that Applications developed using these SDK
materials cannot be installed or used on an iOS Product or submitted
to the App Store unless You enter into a separate iOS Developer Program
Agreement with Apple and comply with the Program Requirements."
So apparently I can't write a program and install it on my own device without
begging their leave. I like to actually own my devices, which means it's
nobody's business who I am or what I want to do with them, unless of course
I want to download *their* software, so they certainly have a right to set
those terms. I just don't accept, so I'm looking for alternatives.
It appears that my best chance may be to look into various Java SDKs.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
nospam
May 24, 2013, 9:29:26 AM5/24/13
to
In article <slrnkpuqcb...@mgb.local>, Lewis
> source platform and does not allow most open source software because iOS
> does not and will not provide source code for applications.
nonsense. there are open source ios apps.
a developer can release source code if they want to. most don't, but
some do.
> However, I did not see iOS mentioned in the original post, only xcode, and
> xcode is used for open source software all the time.
it was mentioned:
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> > So apparently I can't write a program and install it on my own device
> > without
> > begging their leave. I like to actually own my devices, which means it's
> > nobody's business who I am or what I want to do with them, unless of course
> > I want to download *their* software, so they certainly have a right to set
> > those terms. I just don't accept, so I'm looking for alternatives.
>
> There are no alternatives for writing iOS software. iOS is not an open
> > So apparently I can't write a program and install it on my own device
> > without
> > begging their leave. I like to actually own my devices, which means it's
> > nobody's business who I am or what I want to do with them, unless of course
> > I want to download *their* software, so they certainly have a right to set
> > those terms. I just don't accept, so I'm looking for alternatives.
>
> source platform and does not allow most open source software because iOS
> does not and will not provide source code for applications.
nonsense. there are open source ios apps.
a developer can release source code if they want to. most don't, but
some do.
> However, I did not see iOS mentioned in the original post, only xcode, and
> xcode is used for open source software all the time.
it was mentioned:
Chris Ridd
May 24, 2013, 12:27:31 PM5/24/13
to
On 2013-05-24 12:11:55 +0000, Lee Crocker said:
> On Friday, May 24, 2013 4:39:15 AM UTC-7, Chris Ridd wrote:
>> On 2013-05-24 11:02:25 +0000, lcrocker said:
>>
>> What specifically don't you like in the terms and conditions? Clearly
>> folks are able to use to write all sorts of freeware/public domain
>> code, so maybe your concerns are unfounded.
>
> First of all, to get the Apple ID to download it, I have to give them a
> name and address.
Yes, like you have to for any other app on the app store. Personally I
> On Friday, May 24, 2013 4:39:15 AM UTC-7, Chris Ridd wrote:
>> On 2013-05-24 11:02:25 +0000, lcrocker said:
>>
>> What specifically don't you like in the terms and conditions? Clearly
>> folks are able to use to write all sorts of freeware/public domain
>> code, so maybe your concerns are unfounded.
>
> First of all, to get the Apple ID to download it, I have to give them a
> name and address.
have no issue with that.
> Secondly, this is from the TOS:
>
> "You understand and agree that Applications developed using these SDK
> materials cannot be installed or used on an iOS Product or submitted
> to the App Store unless You enter into a separate iOS Developer Program
> Agreement with Apple and comply with the Program Requirements."
>
> So apparently I can't write a program and install it on my own device without
> begging their leave.
an iOS device without paying to join the iOS developer program. Unless
you do that you can only run it on the various device simulators
provided with Xcode.
> It appears that my best chance may be to look into various Java SDKs.
iOS, as iOS does not have a JVM.
--
Chris
Jolly Roger
May 24, 2013, 6:28:21 PM5/24/13
to
In article <40ff8797-1f6e-42b1...@googlegroups.com>,
...purists...
--
Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me.
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM
filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google
Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.
JR
--
Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me.
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM
filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google
Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.
JR
Helpful Harry
May 24, 2013, 8:19:25 PM5/24/13
to
In article <b09ini...@mid.individual.net>, Chris Ridd
changed since I last read them, but that was a while ago and I know some
things have been tightened up.
An official iOS developer can install software on their own iOS devices
for testing purposes. They can also install software on company devices
for that company's own internal use.
What you can't do is distribute software, free or paid-for, to
third-parties without going through the App Store approval process.
Helpful Harry :o)
<chri...@mac.com> wrote:
> On 2013-05-24 12:11:55 +0000, Lee Crocker said:
> > On Friday, May 24, 2013 4:39:15 AM UTC-7, Chris Ridd wrote:
> >> On 2013-05-24 11:02:25 +0000, lcrocker said:
> >>
> >> What specifically don't you like in the terms and conditions? Clearly
> >> folks are able to use to write all sorts of freeware/public domain
> >> code, so maybe your concerns are unfounded.
> >
> > First of all, to get the Apple ID to download it, I have to give them a
> > name and address.
>
> Yes, like you have to for any other app on the app store. Personally I
> have no issue with that.
>
> > Secondly, this is from the TOS:
> >
> > "You understand and agree that Applications developed using these SDK
> > materials cannot be installed or used on an iOS Product or submitted
> > to the App Store unless You enter into a separate iOS Developer Program
> > Agreement with Apple and comply with the Program Requirements."
> >
> > So apparently I can't write a program and install it on my own device
> > without begging their leave.
>
> Not quite - you can develop all you want, you just can't deploy it onto
> an iOS device without paying to join the iOS developer program. Unless
> you do that you can only run it on the various device simulators
> provided with Xcode.
I don't think that's quite true, unless the Terms & Conditions have
> On 2013-05-24 12:11:55 +0000, Lee Crocker said:
> > On Friday, May 24, 2013 4:39:15 AM UTC-7, Chris Ridd wrote:
> >> On 2013-05-24 11:02:25 +0000, lcrocker said:
> >>
> >> What specifically don't you like in the terms and conditions? Clearly
> >> folks are able to use to write all sorts of freeware/public domain
> >> code, so maybe your concerns are unfounded.
> >
> > First of all, to get the Apple ID to download it, I have to give them a
> > name and address.
>
> Yes, like you have to for any other app on the app store. Personally I
> have no issue with that.
>
> > Secondly, this is from the TOS:
> >
> > "You understand and agree that Applications developed using these SDK
> > materials cannot be installed or used on an iOS Product or submitted
> > to the App Store unless You enter into a separate iOS Developer Program
> > Agreement with Apple and comply with the Program Requirements."
> >
> > So apparently I can't write a program and install it on my own device
> > without begging their leave.
>
> Not quite - you can develop all you want, you just can't deploy it onto
> an iOS device without paying to join the iOS developer program. Unless
> you do that you can only run it on the various device simulators
> provided with Xcode.
changed since I last read them, but that was a while ago and I know some
things have been tightened up.
An official iOS developer can install software on their own iOS devices
for testing purposes. They can also install software on company devices
for that company's own internal use.
What you can't do is distribute software, free or paid-for, to
third-parties without going through the App Store approval process.
Helpful Harry :o)
nospam
May 24, 2013, 8:30:41 PM5/24/13
to
In article
<HelpfulHarry-2...@203-118-187-100.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>,
a *paid* ios developer can install apps they write on their own devices
and those owned by others. it does not need to be within a company.
anyone the developer chooses can be a beta tester.
the free ios developer level cannot install to a device (at least not
without some hacking), but they can create and run apps all day long in
the simulator.
there is also an enterprise program for company deployments but that's
not anything he'd be looking at anyway.
> What you can't do is distribute software, free or paid-for, to
> third-parties without going through the App Store approval process.
that part is well understood.
<HelpfulHarry-2...@203-118-187-100.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>,
Helpful Harry <Helpfu...@BusyWorking.com> wrote:
> > Secondly, this is from the TOS:
> > >
> > > "You understand and agree that Applications developed using these SDK
> > > materials cannot be installed or used on an iOS Product or submitted
> > > to the App Store unless You enter into a separate iOS Developer
> > > Program
> > > Agreement with Apple and comply with the Program Requirements."
> > >
> > > So apparently I can't write a program and install it on my own device
> > > without begging their leave.
> >
> > Not quite - you can develop all you want, you just can't deploy it onto
> > an iOS device without paying to join the iOS developer program. Unless
> > you do that you can only run it on the various device simulators
> > provided with Xcode.
>
> I don't think that's quite true, unless the Terms & Conditions have
> changed since I last read them, but that was a while ago and I know some
> things have been tightened up.
>
> An official iOS developer can install software on their own iOS devices
> for testing purposes. They can also install software on company devices
> for that company's own internal use.
what he said is correct.
> > Secondly, this is from the TOS:
> > >
> > > "You understand and agree that Applications developed using these SDK
> > > materials cannot be installed or used on an iOS Product or submitted
> > > to the App Store unless You enter into a separate iOS Developer
> > > Program
> > > Agreement with Apple and comply with the Program Requirements."
> > >
> > > So apparently I can't write a program and install it on my own device
> > > without begging their leave.
> >
> > Not quite - you can develop all you want, you just can't deploy it onto
> > an iOS device without paying to join the iOS developer program. Unless
> > you do that you can only run it on the various device simulators
> > provided with Xcode.
>
> I don't think that's quite true, unless the Terms & Conditions have
> changed since I last read them, but that was a while ago and I know some
> things have been tightened up.
>
> An official iOS developer can install software on their own iOS devices
> for testing purposes. They can also install software on company devices
> for that company's own internal use.
a *paid* ios developer can install apps they write on their own devices
and those owned by others. it does not need to be within a company.
anyone the developer chooses can be a beta tester.
the free ios developer level cannot install to a device (at least not
without some hacking), but they can create and run apps all day long in
the simulator.
there is also an enterprise program for company deployments but that's
not anything he'd be looking at anyway.
> What you can't do is distribute software, free or paid-for, to
> third-parties without going through the App Store approval process.
Hauke Fath
Jun 13, 2013, 6:50:04 AM6/13/13
to
Lee Crocker <leedanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, May 24, 2013 4:39:15 AM UTC-7, Chris Ridd wrote:
> > On 2013-05-24 11:02:25 +0000, lcrocker said:
> >
> > What specifically don't you like in the terms and conditions? Clearly
> > folks are able to use to write all sorts of freeware/public domain
> > code, so maybe your concerns are unfounded.
>
> First of all, to get the Apple ID to download it, I have to give them a
> name and address.
The horrors!
> On Friday, May 24, 2013 4:39:15 AM UTC-7, Chris Ridd wrote:
> > On 2013-05-24 11:02:25 +0000, lcrocker said:
> >
> > What specifically don't you like in the terms and conditions? Clearly
> > folks are able to use to write all sorts of freeware/public domain
> > code, so maybe your concerns are unfounded.
>
> First of all, to get the Apple ID to download it, I have to give them a
> name and address.
> Secondly, this is from the TOS:
>
> "You understand and agree that Applications developed using these SDK
> materials cannot be installed or used on an iOS Product or submitted
> to the App Store unless You enter into a separate iOS Developer Program
> Agreement with Apple and comply with the Program Requirements."
Any more issues?
hauke
--
Now without signature.
0 new messages