What's a good SSD to replace a 15" mid-2008 MBP(model A1260)'s HDD?

[Ant]

Since its HDD is dying, it will need a new drive. 512 GB should be a
good enough size. I'd like to reuse this drive for other computers
(Windows, Mac OS, Linux, etc. on desktops and (laptop/notebook)s) too if
possible if MBP dies later on. Is Crucial brand good as shown in
http://guides.crucial.com/c/MacBook_Pro_15"_Core_2_Duo_Models_A1226_and_A1260
?

Thank you in advance. :)
--
"Ants can carry twenty times their weight, which is useful information
if you're moving out and you need help getting a potato chip across
town." --Ron Darian
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see
this signature correctly.
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\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) Axe ANT from its address if e-mailing privately.

[David B.]

On 22/02/2017 09:06, Ant wrote:
> Since its HDD is dying, it will need a new drive. 512 GB should be a
> good enough size. I'd like to reuse this drive for other computers
> (Windows, Mac OS, Linux, etc. on desktops and (laptop/notebook)s) too if
> possible if MBP dies later on. Is Crucial brand good as shown in
> http://guides.crucial.com/c/MacBook_Pro_15"_Core_2_Duo_Models_A1226_and_A1260
> ?
>
> Thank you in advance. :)

Hello Ant

I've used Crucial for RAM for many years. I've never had a problem with
the product nor the company.

HTH

David B.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2017-02-22, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> Since its HDD is dying, it will need a new drive. 512 GB should be a
> good enough size. I'd like to reuse this drive for other computers
> (Windows, Mac OS, Linux, etc. on desktops and (laptop/notebook)s) too if
> possible if MBP dies later on. Is Crucial brand good as shown in
> http://guides.crucial.com/c/MacBook_Pro_15"_Core_2_Duo_Models_A1226_and_A1260
> ?
>
> Thank you in advance. :)

I've been using Crucial- and OWC-branded SSDs for years with good
results. Here's a link to OWC's offerings:

<https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc>

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[nospam]

In article <9KqdnTcrwPsDyTDF...@earthlink.com>, Ant

<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> Since its HDD is dying, it will need a new drive. 512 GB should be a
> good enough size. I'd like to reuse this drive for other computers
> (Windows, Mac OS, Linux, etc. on desktops and (laptop/notebook)s) too if
> possible if MBP dies later on. Is Crucial brand good as shown in
> http://guides.crucial.com/c/MacBook_Pro_15"_Core_2_Duo_Models_A1226_and_A1260
> ?
>

for that mac, you want crucial due to firmware issues with the ata
controller.

[Jolly Roger]

Or OWC...

[nospam]

In article <eh5rqj...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger

<jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> >> Since its HDD is dying, it will need a new drive. 512 GB should be a
> >> good enough size. I'd like to reuse this drive for other computers
> >> (Windows, Mac OS, Linux, etc. on desktops and (laptop/notebook)s) too if
> >> possible if MBP dies later on. Is Crucial brand good as shown in
> >>
> >> http://guides.crucial.com/c/MacBook_Pro_15"_Core_2_Duo_Models_A1226_and_A12
> >> 60
> >> ?
> >>
> >
> > for that mac, you want crucial due to firmware issues with the ata
> > controller.
>
> Or OWC...

crucial is a much better choice and also less expensive.

[Ant]

What about its SSDs?
--
"I love ants. Do they have uncles? Ha Ha!" --Elmo from Sesame Street
(unknown episode)

[David B.]

On 22/02/2017 17:04, Ant wrote:
> On 2/22/2017 2:18 AM, David B. wrote:
>> On 22/02/2017 09:06, Ant wrote:
>>> Since its HDD is dying, it will need a new drive. 512 GB should be a
>>> good enough size. I'd like to reuse this drive for other computers
>>> (Windows, Mac OS, Linux, etc. on desktops and (laptop/notebook)s) too if
>>> possible if MBP dies later on. Is Crucial brand good as shown in
>>> http://guides.crucial.com/c/MacBook_Pro_15"_Core_2_Duo_Models_A1226_and_A1260
>>>
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> Thank you in advance. :)
>>
>> Hello Ant
>>
>> I've used Crucial for RAM for many years. I've never had a problem with
>> the product nor the company.
>
> What about its SSDs?

I don't have an SSD in _any_ of my equipment, so cannot advise.

Sorry about that!
--
"Do something wonderful, people may imitate it." (Albert Schweitzer)

[nospam]

In article <rXjrA.556906$Yc1.4...@fx28.fr7>, David B.

<Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

>
> I don't have an SSD in _any_ of my equipment, so cannot advise.

it's time to change that. the difference versus a hard drive is
staggering.

[David B.]

I'll bear that in mind. Thank you. :-)

Have you any personal experience of replacing a hard drive in an iMac
with an SSD?

[Neill Massello]

David B. <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

> I've used Crucial for RAM for many years. I've never had a problem with
> the product nor the company.

I've had Crucial DIMMs go bad on me twice.

[David B.]

Oh dear. :-(

Did Crucial replace them quickly and without charge?

[nospam]

In article <1n1uleo.1dubddsu5ox9aN%nmas...@yahoo.com>, Neill Massello

<nmas...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> > I've used Crucial for RAM for many years. I've never had a problem with
> > the product nor the company.
>
> I've had Crucial DIMMs go bad on me twice.

so what? they'll replace it without issue.

nothing is perfect.

[nospam]

In article <1ElrA.503615$8w1.2...@fx02.fr7>, David B.

<Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

> >> I don't have an SSD in _any_ of my equipment, so cannot advise.
> >
> > it's time to change that. the difference versus a hard drive is
> > staggering.
>
> I'll bear that in mind. Thank you. :-)
>
> Have you any personal experience of replacing a hard drive in an iMac
> with an SSD?

imacs are a pain in the ass to open up.

find the one you have and decide if you want to proceed with it:
<https://www.ifixit.com/Device/iMac>

[Neill Massello]

David B. <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

> Have you any personal experience of replacing a hard drive in an iMac
> with an SSD?

Not an iMac, but a 2012 Mac mini. Replacing the internal 5400rpm HDD
with an SSD, the speed improvement was . . . staggering. This was
running 10.11, although reports are that results are similar with any OS
version from 10.9 onward.

[Davoud]

Neill Massello:

> I've had Crucial DIMMs go bad on me twice.

Oops! Sorry!

I don't know that I have bought Crucial RAM, but I installed Crucial
1TB SSDs in two precious 17" MB Pros more than a year ago and they're
both going strong.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

[Ant]

What about v10.8.5/Mountain Lion?
--
"What is that?" "Some kind of insect?" "It's an ant." "Girl, you needed
an exterminator. She had ants on her face." "Well, these aren't your
garden-variety dumpster ants." "And they aren't ... to decomp." "Why are
they in her stomach?" "La hormiga culona--leaf cutter ants. It's a
Colombian dish." "Are you saying that people eat them?" "Fried." "Okay,
so we are looking for a club that serves fried ants." --CSI: Miami
(Wannabe episode; #218)

[Jolly Roger]

On 2017-02-23, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> On 2/22/2017 11:44 AM, Neill Massello wrote:
>> David B. <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Have you any personal experience of replacing a hard drive in an iMac
>>> with an SSD?
>>
>> Not an iMac, but a 2012 Mac mini. Replacing the internal 5400rpm HDD
>> with an SSD, the speed improvement was . . . staggering. This was
>> running 10.11, although reports are that results are similar with any OS
>> version from 10.9 onward.
>
> What about v10.8.5/Mountain Lion?

SSDs work just fine in any recent version of macOS, including 10.8. The
speed increase will be substantial regardless of what version macOS is
installed.

[nospam]

In article <4u6dnVw8w7papzPF...@earthlink.com>, Ant

<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> >> Have you any personal experience of replacing a hard drive in an iMac
> >> with an SSD?
> >
> > Not an iMac, but a 2012 Mac mini. Replacing the internal 5400rpm HDD
> > with an SSD, the speed improvement was . . . staggering. This was
> > running 10.11, although reports are that results are similar with any OS
> > version from 10.9 onward.
>
> What about v10.8.5/Mountain Lion?

the os version makes absolutely no difference. that's like asking if a
hard drive work with mountain lion. of course it would.

[JF Mezei]

On 2017-02-22 23:12, nospam wrote:

>> What about v10.8.5/Mountain Lion?
>
> the os version makes absolutely no difference. that's like asking if a
> hard drive work with mountain lion. of course it would.

There is a difference and it pertains to TRIM.

Prior to Yosemite, you coud install a hack to the kernel extension which
allow TRIM on non Apple SSDs.

At Yosemite, that extension required you turn off kernel extension
verification as part of the boot-arg in NVRAM. (forget the specific term
that had to be used).

Starting at either 10.5.2 or 10.5.3, Apple introduced a line command
that turned on TRIM on any SSD drive (irrespective of make) with no
garantees it will work. This removed the need for the kernel extension
hack and the turning off of kernel extension verification in NVRAM.

[nospam]

In article <58ae6d71$0$53177$c3e8da3$fdf4...@news.astraweb.com>, JF

Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

>
> >> What about v10.8.5/Mountain Lion?
> >
> > the os version makes absolutely no difference. that's like asking if a
> > hard drive work with mountain lion. of course it would.
>
> There is a difference and it pertains to TRIM.

trim is not needed on modern ssds.

[Jolly Roger]

JF Mezei has been told this many times but refuses to believe it despite
evidence showing it to be true.

[Neill Massello]

David B. <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

> Did Crucial replace them quickly and without charge?

Yes. But in one case, they required that the entire retail set (three
sticks) be returned as a unit for replacement, even though only one of
the DIMMs was bad. OWC has a somewhat friendlier cross-ship policy.

[Neill Massello]

Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> What about v10.8.5/Mountain Lion?

I can't offer a lot in the way of personal experience for HDD versus SSD
with 10.8, as I switched to an SSD for the startup and applications
drive in the 10.5 era and didn't run subsequent versions on an HDD
until my Pro died in May 2016. An SSD provides a significant speed boost
for any OS version; but with recent versions, it means the difference
between performance that's quite snappy and performance that's
borderline excruciating.

[David B.]

OK. Thanks Neill. :-)

Btw, WHICH Apple products take THREE sticks of RAM?

[Jolly Roger]

On 2017-02-23, David B. <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
> On 23/02/2017 07:04, Neill Massello wrote:
>> David B. <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Did Crucial replace them quickly and without charge?
>>
>> Yes. But in one case, they required that the entire retail set (three
>> sticks) be returned as a unit for replacement, even though only one of
>> the DIMMs was bad. OWC has a somewhat friendlier cross-ship policy.
>
> OK. Thanks Neill. :-)
>
> Btw, WHICH Apple products take THREE sticks of RAM?

Go to http://everymac.com and find out.

[David B.]

On 23/02/2017 17:03, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2017-02-23, David B. <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 23/02/2017 07:04, Neill Massello wrote:
>>> David B. <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Did Crucial replace them quickly and without charge?
>>>
>>> Yes. But in one case, they required that the entire retail set (three
>>> sticks) be returned as a unit for replacement, even though only one of
>>> the DIMMs was bad. OWC has a somewhat friendlier cross-ship policy.
>>
>> OK. Thanks Neill. :-)
>>
>> Btw, WHICH Apple products take THREE sticks of RAM?
>
> Go to http://everymac.com and find out.

Thank you for pointing me in that direction, Roger! :-)

I've read here:-
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g5/faq/powermac-g5-memory-type-supported-number-of-ram-slots.html

[Jolly Roger]

On 2017-02-23, David B. <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
> On 23/02/2017 17:03, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2017-02-23, David B. <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 23/02/2017 07:04, Neill Massello wrote:
>>>> David B. <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Did Crucial replace them quickly and without charge?
>>>>
>>>> Yes. But in one case, they required that the entire retail set (three
>>>> sticks) be returned as a unit for replacement, even though only one of
>>>> the DIMMs was bad. OWC has a somewhat friendlier cross-ship policy.
>>>
>>> OK. Thanks Neill. :-)
>>>
>>> Btw, WHICH Apple products take THREE sticks of RAM?
>>
>> Go to http://everymac.com and find out.
>
> Thank you for pointing me in that direction, Roger! :-)
>
> I've read here:-
> http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g5/faq/powermac-g5-memory-type-supported-number-of-ram-slots.html

That's only the G5s, but yeah.

[JF Mezei]

On 2017-02-23 00:19, nospam wrote:

>> There is a difference and it pertains to TRIM.
>
> trim is not needed on modern ssds.

The statement was made that OS version did not make ANY difference with
regards to SSD support. I provided evidence that there were differences
with regards to 3rd party SSDs which is exactly what is being discussed
here.

"needed" is the keyword here. yes, an SSD will work without TRIM. But
enabling TRIM is very advantageous which is why APPLE has been enabling
it on its own drives for years, and has now made it possible to do this
for 3rd party drives.


Modern drives are no different than older drives with regards to
advantages of TRIM. (except very old SSDs didn't know about TRIM, but
that would not be the case for current SSDs you buy today).

It is you who refuses to understand how disk drives work and in
particular how SSDs work and why TRIM is beneficial because no SSD
understands the file system and whether a disk block is part of a
deleted or active file. TRIM makes explicite statement to SSD that a
disk block is free, so when all blocks part of a SSD page are markled
free, the page can be recylced and made available for new writes and
more importantly, those TRIMmed blocks inside a page are not propagated
when 1 block in that page is being updated by OS , requiring the page to
be rewritted elsewhere. (this has implication as secure erase no longer
available, so data in blocks from deleted files no longer keeps getting
copied all over the place).

[nospam]

In article <58af3193$0$32669$b1db1813$19ac...@news.astraweb.com>, JF

Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

>
> >> There is a difference and it pertains to TRIM.
> >
> > trim is not needed on modern ssds.
>
> The statement was made that OS version did not make ANY difference with
> regards to SSD support. I provided evidence that there were differences
> with regards to 3rd party SSDs which is exactly what is being discussed
> here.

you didn't provide any such thing.

> "needed" is the keyword here. yes, an SSD will work without TRIM. But
> enabling TRIM is very advantageous which is why APPLE has been enabling
> it on its own drives for years, and has now made it possible to do this
> for 3rd party drives.

apple tests trim with its own ssds, which have apple custom firmware so
that trim works properly.

apple does *not* test trim with third party ssds (nor should they), and
whether trim works properly or not is up to the user to determine.

there are ssds with buggy trim implementations, where problems can
occur. do you want to trust your data to a buggy ssd?

> Modern drives are no different than older drives with regards to
> advantages of TRIM. (except very old SSDs didn't know about TRIM, but
> that would not be the case for current SSDs you buy today).

modern ssds are very, very different than older ssds.

> It is you who refuses to understand how disk drives work and in
> particular how SSDs work

i understand it quite well.

> and why TRIM is beneficial because no SSD
> understands the file system and whether a disk block is part of a
> deleted or active file. TRIM makes explicite statement to SSD that a
> disk block is free, so when all blocks part of a SSD page are markled
> free, the page can be recylced and made available for new writes and
> more importantly, those TRIMmed blocks inside a page are not propagated
> when 1 block in that page is being updated by OS , requiring the page to
> be rewritted elsewhere. (this has implication as secure erase no longer
> available, so data in blocks from deleted files no longer keeps getting
> copied all over the place).

none of that matters.

modern ssds have their own garbage collection. trim is nice but it's
not required.

[Wade Garrett]

On 2/22/17 4:06 AM, Ant wrote:
> Since its HDD is dying, it will need a new drive. 512 GB should be a
> good enough size. I'd like to reuse this drive for other computers
> (Windows, Mac OS, Linux, etc. on desktops and (laptop/notebook)s) too if
> possible if MBP dies later on. Is Crucial brand good as shown in
> http://guides.crucial.com/c/MacBook_Pro_15"_Core_2_Duo_Models_A1226_and_A1260
> ?
>
> Thank you in advance. :)

Actually you'd be fine with most any name brand product...they're all
quite good and are pretty much commodities these days.

Your inquiry reminds me, though, of one I saw recently about which of
the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders was the best looking and sexiest;-)

--
I’m not saying we should kill all the stupid people, I’m just sayin’
let’s remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out….

[nospam]

In article <o8ngvt$opd$1...@news.albasani.net>, Wade Garrett

<wa...@cooler.net> wrote:

> Your inquiry reminds me, though, of one I saw recently about which of
> the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders was the best looking and sexiest;-)

debbie, obviously.

[Neill Massello]

David B. <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

> Btw, WHICH Apple products take THREE sticks of RAM?

The old (cheese grater) Pro towers came with four or eight slots, but
their memory managers provided optimal speed with three or six of the
slots filled.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2017-02-23, JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2017-02-23 00:19, nospam wrote:
>
>>> There is a difference and it pertains to TRIM.
>>
>> trim is not needed on modern ssds.
>

> [nonsensical, uninformed, willfully ignorant objections to the reality
> that TRIM is not needed with today's SSDs omitted]

Nope - still wrong.

[Andreas Rutishauser]

In article <58ae6d71$0$53177$c3e8da3$fdf4...@news.astraweb.com>,

you have something wrong here....
Yosemite (macOS 10.10.x) came out in 2014 afair, Mac OS X 10.5.x
(Leopard) came out in 2007 (which I think is prior to Yosemite)

Cheers
Andrreas

--
MacAndreas Rutishauser, <http://www.MacAndreas.ch>
EDV-Dienstleistungen, Hard- und Software, Internet und Netzwerk
Beratung, Unterstuetzung und Schulung
<mailto:and...@MacAndreas.ch>, Fon: 044 / 721 36 47

[JF Mezei]

On 2017-02-23 15:01, nospam wrote:

> you didn't provide any such thing.

I'll repeat again, since you have hard time with this.

Prior to Yosemite, you could enable TRIM with a kernel extension which
hacked the SSD disk driver.

At early Yosemite, that extension required you to disable kernel
extension verification to function. (boot would hang as it switched from
EFI disk driver to the OS-X disk driver which would fail verification).

At about 10.5.3 or .2, Apple introduced an unsupported utility that
enabled TRIM in 3rd party drives without needing that extenstion hack.

So yes, what version of OS-X you have matters with regards to 3rd party
support.

> apple tests trim with its own ssds, which have apple custom firmware so
> that trim works properly.

Breaking news: Apple tests its hardware.

Other Breaking News: TRIM is pretty standard SATA command now so any
drive that support TRIM (they all do now) will work.

> there are ssds with buggy trim implementations, where problems can
> occur. do you want to trust your data to a buggy ssd?

These are very old drives. TRUM has been standard for quite some time
now. And if it doesn't support TRIM then it will ignore the TRIM
commands and functions as if TRIM were not enabled.

> modern ssds have their own garbage collection. trim is nice but it's
> not required.

All SSDs recycle a page once all the blocks inside have been
invalidated. Updating one block in a page causes the whole page to be
rewritten to another page, and the old page is invalidated, made
available for recycling.

But with TRIM, when a file is deleted, the OS sends TRIM commands to the
disk to invalidate all the blocks that had been allocated to the now
deleted file. This allows the SSD to 1- stop copying those blocks
whenever another block in same page is updated and 2 to send to
"recycling" any pages where all the blocks inside were TRIMmed.


Cosndier also this: with a page size containing 4 blocks of 512bytes.

Say you delete a file 1 that occupies blocks 1 and 2. You then rewrite
block 3 which belongs to file 2.

The SSD does not know that blocks 1 and 2 are no longer in use, so it
copied blocks 1 2 and 4 to a new page, and inserts the contents of the
updated block 3 into the new page. (then invalidates the old page).
End result: you have a new page with 4 occupied blocks. (even if 2
belong to a deleted file).

With TRIM: You delete file 1, blocks 1 and 2 are TRIMmmed.

When you update block 3, the SSD copies only block 4 to a new page,
inserts the updated contents of block 3 and leaves blocks 1 and 2
unwritten.

Therefeore, the next time the SSD needs to map a disk block, it can use
blocks 1 and 2 of that page since they are free to write to. This
reduces the need to copy the whole page to a new one, and invalidate the
old one.

[nospam]

In article <58afc50c$0$25533$b1db1813$796...@news.astraweb.com>, JF

Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> > you didn't provide any such thing.
>
> I'll repeat again, since you have hard time with this.

it ain't me who is having a hard time

> Prior to Yosemite, you could enable TRIM with a kernel extension which
> hacked the SSD disk driver.

a gross and unnecessary hack.

> At early Yosemite, that extension required you to disable kernel
> extension verification to function. (boot would hang as it switched from
> EFI disk driver to the OS-X disk driver which would fail verification).
>
> At about 10.5.3 or .2, Apple introduced an unsupported utility that
> enabled TRIM in 3rd party drives without needing that extenstion hack.

10.5 is leopard.

you are thinking of yosmite/10.10.4, where apple added the ability to
enable trim for third party ssds.

as you say, it's unsupported, which means use at your own risk. see
below.

> So yes, what version of OS-X you have matters with regards to 3rd party
> support.

nope. absolutely none whatsofucking ever.

put a pata ssd (hard to find, but not impossible) into an old mac
running macos 8 and it'll work fine.

> > apple tests trim with its own ssds, which have apple custom firmware so
> > that trim works properly.
>
> Breaking news: Apple tests its hardware.

usually, but you're missing the point.

apple *doesn't* test third party hardware, in particular third party
ssds and trim, which is why the aforementioned tool has a clear
warning:

<https://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2015/06/trimforce.png>
This tool force-enables TRIM for all relevant attached devices, even
though such devices may not have been validated for data integrity
while using TRIM. Use of this tool to enable TRIM may result in
unintended data loss or device corruption. It should not be used in a
commercial operating environment or with important data. Before using
this tool, you should back up all of your data and regularly back up
data while TRIM is enabled.

read that carefully.

[Jolly Roger]

JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2017-02-23 15:01, nospam wrote:
>
>> you didn't provide any such thing.
>
> I'll repeat again,

Repeating yourself won't change the fact that TRIM isn't needed with modern
SSDs.

[JF Mezei]

On 2017-02-24 00:03, Andreas Rutishauser wrote:

> you have something wrong here....
> Yosemite (macOS 10.10.x) came out in 2014 afair, Mac OS X 10.5.x
> (Leopard) came out in 2007 (which I think is prior to Yosemite)

Oops, means 10.10.x I think the utility for enabling TRIM on 3rd
partioes came out with 10.10.3 or .2. (current version of Yosemite is
10.10.5)

[Lewis]

In message <58ae6d71$0$53177$c3e8da3$fdf4...@news.astraweb.com> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2017-02-22 23:12, nospam wrote:

>>> What about v10.8.5/Mountain Lion?
>>
>> the os version makes absolutely no difference. that's like asking if a
>> hard drive work with mountain lion. of course it would.

> There is a difference and it pertains to TRIM.

You've been schooled on this many times. You refuse to learn. Stop
spreading your bullshit.

> Prior to Yosemite, you coud install a hack to the kernel extension which
> allow TRIM on non Apple SSDs.

Which was almost 100% of the time a terrible idea that destroyed SSDs. A
lot of mouth-breathers did this and lost their drives because they
insisted on remaining ignorant.

Most drives do not need TRIM. no one who doesn't ACTUALLY know what they
are doing should enable it. Do not listen to any advise from JF, ever.

--
"What if your DOPE was on fire?"
"Impossible, sir, it's in Johnson's underwear."

[Lewis]

In message <58af3193$0$32669$b1db1813$19ac...@news.astraweb.com> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2017-02-23 00:19, nospam wrote:

>>> There is a difference and it pertains to TRIM.
>>
>> trim is not needed on modern ssds.

> The statement was made that OS version did not make ANY difference with
> regards to SSD support. I provided evidence that there were differences
> with regards to 3rd party SSDs which is exactly what is being discussed
> here.

No, that is not at all what you did. You spewed ignorant and wrong
bullshit FUD.

> "needed" is the keyword here. yes, an SSD will work without TRIM. But
> enabling TRIM is very advantageous

No it is not. Stop lying.

> which is why APPLE has been enabling

APPLE, unlike the JF moron, know what they are doing.

> Modern drives are no different than older drives with regards to
> advantages of TRIM.

You continue to lie and ignore facts. Are you Donald Trump?

--
THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE DOES NOT END WITH HAIL SATAN Bart chalkboard
Ep. 1F16

[David B.]

On 22/02/2017 19:42, nospam wrote:
> In article <1ElrA.503615$8w1.2...@fx02.fr7>, David B.
> <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> I don't have an SSD in _any_ of my equipment, so cannot advise.
>>>
>>> it's time to change that. the difference versus a hard drive is
>>> staggering.
>>
>> I'll bear that in mind. Thank you. :-)

>>
>> Have you any personal experience of replacing a hard drive in an iMac
>> with an SSD?
>

> imacs are a pain in the ass to open up.
>
> find the one you have and decide if you want to proceed with it:
> <https://www.ifixit.com/Device/iMac>

What a fantastic site you directed me to - *THANK YOU*! :-)

Until I read the label underneath the computer stand, I had no idea that
my iMac had been assembled in China! (I wonder if President Trump is
aware of this! ;-) )

It looks easy when one reads here:
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+24-Inch+EMC+2134+and+2211+Diagnostic+LED%27s/7443

However, I'll take your word that it's "a pain in the ass" to do it!

[Lewis]

In message <58afc50c$0$25533$b1db1813$796...@news.astraweb.com> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

[Bunch of TRIM bullshit deleted]

> So yes, what version of OS-X you have matters with regards to 3rd party
> support.

We are not talking about your idiotic TRIM fantasy being supported. We
are talking about support for SSDs.

Modern SSDs have very efficient and fast garabage collection and though
all SSDs will degrade a bit in speed when near peak capacity, they
recover their speed through garbage collection nearly as soon as space
is freed.

I have a 1TB SSD that I filled up just to see what would happen. It
slowed dramatically when it had less than 20GB or so free. Once I gave
it back some free space though, its speeds returned to normal. (Free
space of about 50-100GB, iirc).

--
Rumour is information distilled so finely that it can filter through
anything. It does not need doors and windows -- sometimes it does not
need people. It can exist free and wild, running from ear to ear without
ever touching lips.

[David B.]

On 22/02/2017 19:44, Neill Massello wrote:
> David B. <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>

>> Have you any personal experience of replacing a hard drive in an iMac
>> with an SSD?
>

> Not an iMac, but a 2012 Mac mini. Replacing the internal 5400rpm HDD
> with an SSD, the speed improvement was . . . staggering. This was
> running 10.11, although reports are that results are similar with any OS
> version from 10.9 onward.

Thanks for the info, Neill.

When I replace this aging iMac, I'll make sure I get one with an SSD!

[David B.]

On 25/02/2017 07:34, Lewis wrote:
> Do not listen to any advise from JF, ever.

I expect you meant advice! ;-) (noted, btw!)

> "What if your DOPE was on fire?" "Impossible, sir, it's in Johnson's
> underwear."

Will you, please, explain that joke to me?

David
(Across the pond in England)

[Lewis]

In message <bSasA.525520$y%1.22...@fx24.fr7> David B. <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
> On 25/02/2017 07:34, Lewis wrote:
>> Do not listen to any advise from JF, ever.

> I expect you meant advice! ;-) (noted, btw!)

If the spill chucker doesn't highlight it, I am unlikely to catch it.

>> "What if your DOPE was on fire?" "Impossible, sir, it's in Johnson's
>> underwear."

> Will you, please, explain that joke to me?

<http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088847/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1>

> David
> (Across the pond in England)

That's no excuse!

--
When the least they could do to you was everything, then the most they
could do to you suddenly held no terror. --Small Gods

[nospam]

In article <7AasA.673075$4K3.1...@fx12.fr7>, David B.

<Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

> Until I read the label underneath the computer stand, I had no idea that
> my iMac had been assembled in China! (I wonder if President Trump is
> aware of this! ;-) )

it's not just apple products. nearly all consumer electronics today is
assembled in china and that ain't changing any time soon, if ever.

[Ant]

On 2/25/2017 6:39 AM, Lewis wrote:

>>> "What if your DOPE was on fire?" "Impossible, sir, it's in Johnson's
>>> underwear."
>
>> Will you, please, explain that joke to me?
>
> <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088847/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1>

I finally saw it a few years ago.

>> David
>> (Across the pond in England)
>
> That's no excuse!

"Better late than never for me." :P
--
"Yo mama is so poor, I saw her fighting an ant for food." --unknown
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see
this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) Axe ANT from its address if e-mailing privately.

[David B.]

Indeed!

You may find THIS item of interest:-

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/601215/china-is-building-a-robot-army-of-model-workers/

D.

[Ant]

Aka Skynet. ;P
--
"I used to command a battalion of German ants." --Tom

[David B.]

On 25/02/2017 14:39, Lewis wrote:
> In message <bSasA.525520$y%1.22...@fx24.fr7> David B. <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 25/02/2017 07:34, Lewis wrote:
>>> Do not listen to any advise from JF, ever.
>
>> I expect you meant advice! ;-) (noted, btw!)
>
> If the spill chucker doesn't highlight it, I am unlikely to catch it.
>
>>> "What if your DOPE was on fire?" "Impossible, sir, it's in Johnson's
>>> underwear."
>
>> Will you, please, explain that joke to me?
>
> <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088847/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1>

Ah! Like "I am serious... and don't call me Shirley."

I've not seen that film. :-(

>> David
>> (Across the pond in England)
>
> That's no excuse!

You're right! ;-)

[JF Mezei]

On 2017-02-25 02:34, Lewis wrote:

> You've been schooled on this many times. You refuse to learn. Stop
> spreading your bullshit.

Are you denying that handling of TRIM has changed through different OS-X
versions ? Are you denying Apple introduced kernel extension checks with
Yosemite (which disabled popular TRIM enabler) and that Apple then
introduced a TRIM enable utility for 3rd party SSDs in one of the
Yosemite sub versions ?

> Which was almost 100% of the time a terrible idea that destroyed SSDs.

Look who is spreading FUD. SSDs have long ago started to support TRIM.
If you bought a modern SSD you wouldn't have problems.

> lot of mouth-breathers did this and lost their drives because they
> insisted on remaining ignorant.

FUD again. If you enabled TRIM on a drive that didn't support it, you
woudln't lose your data, worse case, you would need to reboot after
doing a delete that would send TRIM commands the drive didn't know how
to process. Normally, those drives should have ignored the TRIM commands
or you shouldn't have enabled it if you had old SSDs.

> Most drives do not need TRIM

And most iPhones don't need a protective covers, yet it is the
recommended practice to protect the iPhone. Same with SSDs. They may
function without TRIM enabled, but it is recommended to enable it.

[JF Mezei]

On 2017-02-25 02:45, Lewis wrote:

> Modern SSDs have very efficient and fast garabage collection

A disk drive has no means whatsoever to know that the OS has decided
some blocks on that disk have become free.

Your "garbage collection" is part of the core function of an SSD
because it is unable to update in-situ a disk block and must copy the
block and all other blcoks in that page to a new free page and then mark
the old page for "garbage collection" (recyling so it is zapped and
ready to be writted to again).

TRIM is the file system part of the OS telling the disk explicitely that
certain blocks need not be preserved and copied all over the place when
a nearby block is being updated.

If TRIM is so useless as you proclaim, why then did Apple implement is
rapidly when it started to ship machoines with built-in SSDs ?

[nospam]

In article <58b1e1ea$0$60208$c3e8da3$66d3...@news.astraweb.com>, JF

Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

>
> > Modern SSDs have very efficient and fast garabage collection
>
> A disk drive has no means whatsoever to know that the OS has decided
> some blocks on that disk have become free.

they don't need to.

[nospam]

In article <58b1e05a$0$60135$c3e8da3$66d3...@news.astraweb.com>, JF

Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> > Most drives do not need TRIM
>
> And most iPhones don't need a protective covers, yet it is the
> recommended practice to protect the iPhone.

bad analogy.

> Same with SSDs. They may
> function without TRIM enabled, but it is recommended to enable it.

not anymore it isn't.

[Ant]

On 2/25/2017 11:47 AM, David B. wrote:
> On 25/02/2017 14:39, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <bSasA.525520$y%1.22...@fx24.fr7> David B.
>> <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 25/02/2017 07:34, Lewis wrote:
>>>> Do not listen to any advise from JF, ever.
>>
>>> I expect you meant advice! ;-) (noted, btw!)
>>
>> If the spill chucker doesn't highlight it, I am unlikely to catch it.
>>
>>>> "What if your DOPE was on fire?" "Impossible, sir, it's in Johnson's
>>>> underwear."
>>
>>> Will you, please, explain that joke to me?
>>
>> <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088847/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1>
>
> Ah! Like "I am serious... and don't call me Shirley."
>
> I've not seen that film. :-(

What!! Dude, watch Airplane already. I didn't like its sequel though.
--
"Bother," said Winnie the Pooh, as he stepped on an ant.

[David B.]

On 25/02/2017 20:09, Ant wrote:
> On 2/25/2017 11:47 AM, David B. wrote:
>> On 25/02/2017 14:39, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <bSasA.525520$y%1.22...@fx24.fr7> David B.
>>> <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 25/02/2017 07:34, Lewis wrote:
>>>>> Do not listen to any advise from JF, ever.
>>>
>>>> I expect you meant advice! ;-) (noted, btw!)
>>>
>>> If the spill chucker doesn't highlight it, I am unlikely to catch it.
>>>
>>>>> "What if your DOPE was on fire?" "Impossible, sir, it's in Johnson's
>>>>> underwear."
>>>
>>>> Will you, please, explain that joke to me?
>>>
>>> <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088847/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1>
>>
>> Ah! Like "I am serious... and don't call me Shirley."
>>
>> I've not seen that film. :-(
>
> What!! Dude, watch Airplane already. I didn't like its sequel though.

Oops! I meant I've not seen "The Breakfast Club"!

[Ant]

On 2/25/2017 12:16 PM, David B. wrote:
...

>>>>>> "What if your DOPE was on fire?" "Impossible, sir, it's in Johnson's
>>>>>> underwear."
>>>>
>>>>> Will you, please, explain that joke to me?
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088847/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1>
>>>
>>> Ah! Like "I am serious... and don't call me Shirley."
>>>
>>> I've not seen that film. :-(
>>
>> What!! Dude, watch Airplane already. I didn't like its sequel though.
>
> Oops! I meant I've not seen "The Breakfast Club"!

Oh OK. :) Yeah, watch TBC. I saw that a few years ago while The Airplane
was a decade ago or more.
--
"... I'd wait for a hot Texas day, see? Tie him to a stake, get an ant
trail going. You know, Texas red ants, inch long! Just love to bite into
human flesh, catch what I'm saying here? See, they're eating him alive,
nice and slow like..." --Ross Perot in Saturday Night Live's Debate '92
skit.

[Alan Baker]

On 2017-02-25 11:51 AM, JF Mezei wrote:
> On 2017-02-25 02:34, Lewis wrote:
>
>> You've been schooled on this many times. You refuse to learn. Stop
>> spreading your bullshit.
>
> Are you denying that handling of TRIM has changed through different OS-X
> versions ? Are you denying Apple introduced kernel extension checks with
> Yosemite (which disabled popular TRIM enabler) and that Apple then
> introduced a TRIM enable utility for 3rd party SSDs in one of the
> Yosemite sub versions ?

He's denying that TRIM is necessary.

[Lewis]

In message <58b1e05a$0$60135$c3e8da3$66d3...@news.astraweb.com> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2017-02-25 02:34, Lewis wrote:

>> You've been schooled on this many times. You refuse to learn. Stop
>> spreading your bullshit.

> Are you denying that handling of TRIM

Every time some one talks about an SSD you pop up like the world's most
annoying prairie dog and start in on your song and dance about TRIM.

TRIM is not the topic under discussion. At All.

Your idiotic parroting of 'facts' you have been shown over an over to be
false is tiresome.


--
Well… sometimes I have the feeling that I can do crystal meth, but then
I think, mmmm… better not.

[Jolly Roger]

Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <58b1e05a$0$60135$c3e8da3$66d3...@news.astraweb.com> JF Mezei
> <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>> On 2017-02-25 02:34, Lewis wrote:
>
>>> You've been schooled on this many times. You refuse to learn. Stop
>>> spreading your bullshit.
>
>> Are you denying that handling of TRIM
>
> Every time some one talks about an SSD you pop up like the world's most
> annoying prairie dog and start in on your song and dance about TRIM.
>
> TRIM is not the topic under discussion. At All.
>
> Your idiotic parroting of 'facts' you have been shown over an over to be
> false is tiresome.

It's really silly - not to mention counterproductive- that we have to have
this tired, old discussion every time he sees the word SSD mentioned in a
thread.