Recommendations on upgrading a Beige G3
carlos...@earthlink.net
going to use what I had saved up for a G3/G4 based Mac on upgrades.
As I've been out of the Mac scene for quite some time (my last
PowerMac purchase(s) were lemons), I'd like some recommendations on
what upgrades I should be looking to get...
Here are the G3 current specs:
Stock
G3 233 DT
1x32MB DIMM
4GB WD Caviar drive
24x CD-ROM
Audio card in 'Comm' slot (Apple card)
Upgrades
1x32MB and 1x256MB DIMM (320MB total)
ATI XCLAIM VR PRO (w/~4MB RAM)
Macally PCIFireWire/USB card
I suspect I'll have to return the 256MB DIMM as I don't
believe the previous owner intended to give it away. If that is the
case, are there any specific requirements (other than DIMM height)
that I should keep in mind (i.e. use only PC66 or only PC100 DIMMs)?
I want to upgrade the processor, as I intend to run OS 9 and
OS X on the G3. But I'm not exactly sure how I should go about
this...
I don't know what the pros/cons are to any particular brand or
vendor. I don't know if I should stick with a G3 processor or move to
a G4. I also don't know how the inherent bottlenecks of the Beige G3
will affect the performance of a processor upgrade. I can afford to
get a G4@550Mhz (I know it's functionally 533MHz), but at what point
would I start to encounter diminishing returns? A G3@400MHz,
G3@450MHz, or G3@500MHz or a G4@400MHz, G4@500Mhz, or G4@550Mhz?
I'm planning to add or swap out most of the expansion cards.
I'm looking to find ways to make the best use of the 3 PCI and 1
'Comm' slot. For example, I'd like to get a card that would possibly
integrate FireWire, USB 1.1/2.0, UDMA-EIDE (66/100/133) and/or SCSI,
and even 100Mb Ethernet. I'm not certain I really need SCSI if I have
FireWire or UDMA-EIDE if I have USB 2.0. The point is, with only 3
PCI slots (and no AGP), the G3 would need as much packed onto one card
as possible. I should mention I haven't shopped around for such a
beast, in the hopes that people here could point me in the right
direction. As for the 'Comm' slot, is this supported under OS X? If
so, what cards are there and is there any point to using them?
On to video... I'm thinking it might make sense to go for the
top of the line (well for the G3 anyway) Radeon 7000. I've read that
there are some OS X compatibility issues with it. Have they been
resolved? If not, what are some good resources for work-arounds.
I think that's about it for now. Any other suggestions are
very welcome.
Phil Lefebvre
carlos...@earthlink.net wrote:
> are there any specific requirements (other than DIMM height)
> that I should keep in mind (i.e. use only PC66 or only PC100 DIMMs)?
I have 3 PC133 chips in my Beige G3. Work fine. Faster is better, and it
didn't cost me anything extra.
> I also don't know how the inherent bottlenecks of the Beige G3
> will affect the performance of a processor upgrade. I can afford to
> get a G4@550Mhz (I know it's functionally 533MHz)
Then get it. G4s cost more per MHz, but offer better memory bandwidth,
which is a nice boost (10-15%) with the slow system bus. If you are
handy and a bit daring, people have overclocked the system bus to 83MHz.
I did that with a previous G3 ZIF; am back to 66MHz for the moment, but
plan on doing it with a G4 upgrade I want to get. Also, the processor
can probably be boosted another 10-15%; both mods just require different
motherboard jumper settings, and maybe a fan on the CPU.
As far as brand, ZIFs are ZIFs. Shop at a place like Other World
Computing and ask their opinion.
> For example, I'd like to get a card that would possibly
> integrate FireWire, USB 1.1/2.0, UDMA-EIDE (66/100/133)
Sonnet Trio. $189 list price.
> I'm not certain I really need SCSI
Unless you have expensive, high speed legacy SCSI devices, don't bother.
The built-in SCSI will handle most devices fine, and OS X doesn't play
well with SCSI in general.
> As for the 'Comm' slot, is this supported under OS X? If
> so, what cards are there and is there any point to using them?
It took a modem. They are rare and pricey on eBay. Get a serial or USB
modem and be done with it. (Serial modems work under OS X, but not
serial printers or most other devices.)
> On to video... I'm thinking it might make sense to go for the
> top of the line (well for the G3 anyway) Radeon 7000. I've read that
> there are some OS X compatibility issues with it. Have they been
> resolved?
Yes, and can even be hacked to run Quartz Extreme in 10.2. Besides, it's
the only game in town for decent PCI video cards.
OTOH, you may end up spending more than the price of a good used AGP
PowerMac G4, and definitely more than a used Blue&White G3, either of
which would run OS X much better and have a lot of what you want to
upgrade to built-in. Compare and contrast before blowing your wad.
--
Phil Lefebvre
Chicago, IL
Remove GO from e-mail address to reply.
carlos...@earthlink.net
<p-lef...@GOnorthwestern.edu> wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 14:30:39 -0600, in comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc you
wrote:
>> are there any specific requirements (other than DIMM height)
>> that I should keep in mind (i.e. use only PC66 or only PC100 DIMMs)?
>
>I have 3 PC133 chips in my Beige G3. Work fine. Faster is better, and it
>didn't cost me anything extra.
Great, I have some spare DIMMs from an old clone I can use.
>Then get it. G4s cost more per MHz, but offer better memory bandwidth,
>which is a nice boost (10-15%) with the slow system bus. If you are
>handy and a bit daring, people have overclocked the system bus to 83MHz.
>I did that with a previous G3 ZIF; am back to 66MHz for the moment, but
>plan on doing it with a G4 upgrade I want to get. Also, the processor
>can probably be boosted another 10-15%; both mods just require different
>motherboard jumper settings, and maybe a fan on the CPU.
>
>As far as brand, ZIFs are ZIFs. Shop at a place like Other World
>Computing and ask their opinion.
Are there any manufacturers and/or vendors I should avoid?
>> For example, I'd like to get a card that would possibly
>> integrate FireWire, USB 1.1/2.0, UDMA-EIDE (66/100/133)
>
>Sonnet Trio. $189 list price.
Hmm... I'm think I may stick with the card that's already in
the G3. Can you boot off drives connected to the FireWire bus?
>> I'm not certain I really need SCSI
>
>Unless you have expensive, high speed legacy SCSI devices, don't bother.
>The built-in SCSI will handle most devices fine, and OS X doesn't play
>well with SCSI in general.
I don't know why, but for seem reason I forgot the G3 had a
SCSI controller... What 'type' of SCSI controller does the G3 have
(Narrow, Wide, UltraWide, etc.)?
>> As for the 'Comm' slot, is this supported under OS X? If
>> so, what cards are there and is there any point to using them?
>
>It took a modem. They are rare and pricey on eBay. Get a serial or USB
>modem and be done with it. (Serial modems work under OS X, but not
>serial printers or most other devices.)
So you're basically saying the Comm slot is pretty much
useless? I'd hoped to perhaps throw in a network card there instead
of using up an entire PCI slot or a dinky USB ethernet transceiver...
Oh well.
>> On to video... I'm thinking it might make sense to go for the
>> top of the line (well for the G3 anyway) Radeon 7000. I've read that
>> there are some OS X compatibility issues with it. Have they been
>> resolved?
>
>Yes, and can even be hacked to run Quartz Extreme in 10.2. Besides, it's
>the only game in town for decent PCI video cards.
>
>OTOH, you may end up spending more than the price of a good used AGP
>PowerMac G4, and definitely more than a used Blue&White G3, either of
>which would run OS X much better and have a lot of what you want to
>upgrade to built-in. Compare and contrast before blowing your wad.
Well, looking at the grand total so far (on hardware), is
about $427.95... Not including the Sonnet Tempo Trio, which would
exceed my $500 hardware budget by more than $100. So I don't think
I'm doing to badly.
Phil Lefebvre
carlos...@earthlink.net wrote:
> >As far as brand, ZIFs are ZIFs. Shop at a place like Other World
> >Computing and ask their opinion.
>
> Are there any manufacturers and/or vendors I should avoid?
Well, XLR8 product is still out there, but they're now out of business,
so it you want a warranty, skip them. Otherwise, no, they all get their
ZIFs from Motorola.
> >> For example, I'd like to get a card that would possibly
> >> integrate FireWire, USB 1.1/2.0, UDMA-EIDE (66/100/133)
> >
> >Sonnet Trio. $189 list price.
>
> Hmm... I'm think I may stick with the card that's already in
> the G3. Can you boot off drives connected to the FireWire bus?
Not yet. A utility called XPostFacto 3 is supposed to provide that
capability. Due out in the near future.
> I don't know why, but for seem reason I forgot the G3 had a
> SCSI controller... What 'type' of SCSI controller does the G3 have
25-pin narrow SCSI-1 (5 MB/s top speed)
>I'd hoped to perhaps throw in a network card there instead
> of using up an entire PCI slot or a dinky USB ethernet transceiver...
Did you also forgot the Beige G3 has 10baseT Ethernet built-in?
> Well, looking at the grand total so far (on hardware), is
> about $427.95... Not including the Sonnet Tempo Trio, which would
> exceed my $500 hardware budget by more than $100. So I don't think
> I'm doing to badly.
Well, Blue & White G3s sell for around $300-$400 on eBay. You can
probably get around $100 for your Beige G3 on eBay and buy an older
Power Mac G4 for around $500-600. Just a thought.
Joe Heimann
> In article <bquo1vsqalt1sq9et...@4ax.com>,
> carlos...@earthlink.net wrote:
>> are there any specific requirements (other than DIMM height)
>> that I should keep in mind (i.e. use only PC66 or only PC100 DIMMs)?
> I have 3 PC133 chips in my Beige G3. Work fine. Faster is better, and it
> didn't cost me anything extra.
There are limitations on the RAM chips that the DIMM's are made of. In
practice this means that at 256 MB, the DIMM will need to have 16 chips
of RAM on it to be usable. A DIMM with fewer chips will not work. In
the Tech support area of OWC, www.macsales.com, there is/was information
on which RAM was usable. The owner has also posted those details on the
DealMac forum in the past, a search there will turn it up. Not so much
of an issue with PC66 or PC100 SDRAM, but some of the newer PC133 DIMM's
are being made with only 4 or 8 chips on 128 and 256 MB memory. These
will not work.
>> I also don't know how the inherent bottlenecks of the Beige G3
>> will affect the performance of a processor upgrade. I can afford to
>> get a G4@550Mhz (I know it's functionally 533MHz)
> Then get it. G4s cost more per MHz, but offer better memory bandwidth,
> which is a nice boost (10-15%) with the slow system bus. If you are
> handy and a bit daring, people have overclocked the system bus to 83MHz.
> I did that with a previous G3 ZIF; am back to 66MHz for the moment, but
> plan on doing it with a G4 upgrade I want to get. Also, the processor
> can probably be boosted another 10-15%; both mods just require different
> motherboard jumper settings, and maybe a fan on the CPU.
> As far as brand, ZIFs are ZIFs. Shop at a place like Other World
> Computing and ask their opinion.
If your G3 has the Royal Voltage Regulator Module (VRM), then you can
not install a G4 ZIF upgrade. Doing so will damage the ZIF and/or the
logic board. OWC has a note about this and a link to a source for a
replacement VRM, but at about $90 it may not be worth it to you. As
for speed, PowerLogix just announced a G3 ZIF at 800 MHz this week.
The list price is $299, no idea what the street price will end up and
when they will actually ship to customers. As for clocking the bus to
83 MHz, this frequently leads to problems, especially in the earlier
machines.
>> For example, I'd like to get a card that would possibly
>> integrate FireWire, USB 1.1/2.0, UDMA-EIDE (66/100/133)
> Sonnet Trio. $189 list price.
>> I'm not certain I really need SCSI
> Unless you have expensive, high speed legacy SCSI devices, don't bother.
> The built-in SCSI will handle most devices fine, and OS X doesn't play
> well with SCSI in general.
>> As for the 'Comm' slot, is this supported under OS X? If
>> so, what cards are there and is there any point to using them?
> It took a modem. They are rare and pricey on eBay. Get a serial or USB
> modem and be done with it. (Serial modems work under OS X, but not
> serial printers or most other devices.)
The Audio card is not actually in the Comm Slot. That slot is called
the PERCH slot, the only cards that can be installed in it come from
Apple. They are the audio card you have, an A/V card and a DVD card.
There is a slot on these cards that an internal modem plugs into, it is
basically the Apple/GV 56K Comm Slot II modem that was also used in
some of the PM 6500 and 4400 models. You can not use any other Comm
Slot II card in that slot, the signal lines needed are not present. As
mentioned above, these are not easy to find and are usually overpriced.
The GV 56K internal modem for the B&W G3's will also not work in this
slot, and these are what you will find most of the time when searching.
>> On to video... I'm thinking it might make sense to go for the
>> top of the line (well for the G3 anyway) Radeon 7000. I've read that
>> there are some OS X compatibility issues with it. Have they been
>> resolved?
> Yes, and can even be hacked to run Quartz Extreme in 10.2. Besides, it's
> the only game in town for decent PCI video cards.
> OTOH, you may end up spending more than the price of a good used AGP
> PowerMac G4, and definitely more than a used Blue&White G3, either of
> which would run OS X much better and have a lot of what you want to
> upgrade to built-in. Compare and contrast before blowing your wad.
Better than the Radeon 7000 is the original Radeon for Mac PCI card.
They are not being sold any longer, but sometimes can be found used for
about $150. More expensive than the 7000, but about 25% faster. But
keep your total cost in mind. Just mentioning it in case you run into
one at a price better than normal. Some of the previous generation
Rage 128 cards also can be used and will give better performance than
the built-in Rage II+ or Pro. If you don't get a card, the internal
video can be max'ed out to 6 MB with a 4 MB SO-DIMM. That runs about
$15-20 if you don't already have it installed.
Joe Heimann
carlos...@earthlink.net
<p-lef...@GOnorthwestern.edu> wrote:
>In article <1php1v0sig46j018g...@4ax.com>,
> carlos...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
>> Are there any manufacturers and/or vendors I should avoid?
>
>Well, XLR8 product is still out there, but they're now out of business,
>so it you want a warranty, skip them. Otherwise, no, they all get their
>ZIFs from Motorola.
Thanks. that's something I needed to know.
>> >> For example, I'd like to get a card that would possibly
>> >> integrate FireWire, USB 1.1/2.0, UDMA-EIDE (66/100/133)
>> >
>> >Sonnet Trio. $189 list price.
>>
>> Hmm... I'm think I may stick with the card that's already in
>> the G3. Can you boot off drives connected to the FireWire bus?
>
>Not yet. A utility called XPostFacto 3 is supposed to provide that
>capability. Due out in the near future.
Hmm... If that's the case, perhaps I can avoid investing in a
UDMA-EIDE controller.
>> I don't know why, but for seem reason I forgot the G3 had a
>> SCSI controller... What 'type' of SCSI controller does the G3 have
>
>25-pin narrow SCSI-1 (5 MB/s top speed)
In that case, I doubt I'll be using for much of anything.
>>I'd hoped to perhaps throw in a network card there instead
>> of using up an entire PCI slot or a dinky USB ethernet transceiver...
>
>Did you also forgot the Beige G3 has 10baseT Ethernet built-in?
No... I was going to switch to a 100Mbps NIC, but I've
reconsidered. There just aren't enough expansion slots and I don't
need a 100Mbps NIC in the Mac... Especially if I eventually have to
get a faster drive controller.
>> Well, looking at the grand total so far (on hardware), is
>> about $427.95... Not including the Sonnet Tempo Trio, which would
>> exceed my $500 hardware budget by more than $100. So I don't think
>> I'm doing to badly.
>
>Well, Blue & White G3s sell for around $300-$400 on eBay. You can
>probably get around $100 for your Beige G3 on eBay and buy an older
>Power Mac G4 for around $500-600. Just a thought.
I'll keep that in mind. Especially since many of the upgrades
I'm looking at will also enhance a Blue & White G3... Well except
maybe the Radeon 7000.
Peter Kerr
> >> top of the line (well for the G3 anyway) Radeon 7000. I've read that
> >> there are some OS X compatibility issues with it. Have they been
> >> resolved?
>
> > Yes, and can even be hacked to run Quartz Extreme in 10.2. Besides, it's
> > the only game in town for decent PCI video cards.
>
> > OTOH, you may end up spending more than the price of a good used AGP
> > PowerMac G4, and definitely more than a used Blue&White G3, either of
> > which would run OS X much better and have a lot of what you want to
> > upgrade to built-in. Compare and contrast before blowing your wad.
>
> Better than the Radeon 7000 is the original Radeon for Mac PCI card.
> They are not being sold any longer, but sometimes can be found used for
> about $150. More expensive than the 7000, but about 25% faster. But
> keep your total cost in mind. Just mentioning it in case you run into
> one at a price better than normal. Some of the previous generation
> Rage 128 cards also can be used and will give better performance than
> the built-in Rage II+ or Pro. If you don't get a card, the internal
> video can be max'ed out to 6 MB with a 4 MB SO-DIMM. That runs about
> $15-20 if you don't already have it installed.
>
See the other msg in this ng: FYI - on the cheap PCI GX options
which claims the Matrox Millenium 1 card does Quartz extreme & more...
asah...@nospam.com
"Joe Heimann" <hei...@ecs.umass.edu> wrote:
For anyone interested I have an original PCI Radeon for sale that I
don't use any longer. I'm going to put it on eBay if no one buys it
direct.
Scott
*replace nospam with yahoo to email me
carlos...@earthlink.net
wrote:
>Phil Lefebvre <p-lef...@gonorthwestern.edu> wrote:
>> In article <bquo1vsqalt1sq9et...@4ax.com>,
>> carlos...@earthlink.net wrote:
<snip>
>> I have 3 PC133 chips in my Beige G3. Work fine. Faster is better, and it
>> didn't cost me anything extra.
>
>There are limitations on the RAM chips that the DIMM's are made of. In
>practice this means that at 256 MB, the DIMM will need to have 16 chips
>of RAM on it to be usable. A DIMM with fewer chips will not work. In
>the Tech support area of OWC, www.macsales.com, there is/was information
>on which RAM was usable. The owner has also posted those details on the
>DealMac forum in the past, a search there will turn it up. Not so much
>of an issue with PC66 or PC100 SDRAM, but some of the newer PC133 DIMM's
>are being made with only 4 or 8 chips on 128 and 256 MB memory. These
>will not work.
This is interesting... I'll have to check the DIMMs I have
and see if they comply.
<snip>
>> Then get it. G4s cost more per MHz, but offer better memory bandwidth,
>> which is a nice boost (10-15%) with the slow system bus. If you are
>> handy and a bit daring, people have overclocked the system bus to 83MHz.
>> I did that with a previous G3 ZIF; am back to 66MHz for the moment, but
>> plan on doing it with a G4 upgrade I want to get. Also, the processor
>> can probably be boosted another 10-15%; both mods just require different
>> motherboard jumper settings, and maybe a fan on the CPU.
>
>> As far as brand, ZIFs are ZIFs. Shop at a place like Other World
>> Computing and ask their opinion.
>
>If your G3 has the Royal Voltage Regulator Module (VRM), then you can
>not install a G4 ZIF upgrade. Doing so will damage the ZIF and/or the
>logic board. OWC has a note about this and a link to a source for a
>replacement VRM, but at about $90 it may not be worth it to you. As
>for speed, PowerLogix just announced a G3 ZIF at 800 MHz this week.
>The list price is $299, no idea what the street price will end up and
>when they will actually ship to customers. As for clocking the bus to
>83 MHz, this frequently leads to problems, especially in the earlier
>machines.
I read about that recently and checked the VRM. Fortunately
for me, it's not a Royal. With my trying to spend less than $500-$550
dollars on upgrades, I certainly would not have wanted to spend an
extra $90 bucks just for a VRM.
I also came across rumors of new ZIF upgrades for the Beige (&
B&W) G3... I guess the PowerLogix 800MHz ZIF confirms this. I'm
thinking I should wait and see if there will be any other additional
additions to the ZIF upgrade line up.
I am going to play around with the bus speed, as I'm not
unfamiliar with the 'art' in IBM clones. Thanks for the warning
though. I believe I have a REV A. Beige G3 (I know I have REV A ROM)
so I'll be careful pushing it passed 75MHz.
<snip>
>The Audio card is not actually in the Comm Slot. That slot is called
>the PERCH slot, the only cards that can be installed in it come from
>Apple. They are the audio card you have, an A/V card and a DVD card.
>There is a slot on these cards that an internal modem plugs into, it is
>basically the Apple/GV 56K Comm Slot II modem that was also used in
>some of the PM 6500 and 4400 models. You can not use any other Comm
>Slot II card in that slot, the signal lines needed are not present. As
>mentioned above, these are not easy to find and are usually overpriced.
>The GV 56K internal modem for the B&W G3's will also not work in this
>slot, and these are what you will find most of the time when searching.
I don't need a modem... But the A/V and DVD cards sound
useful. Any idea what the street price on these might be?
It's unfortunate that the G3 has such limited expansion
potential... Hell, I suppose that carries over to most Macs. If only
it had one more PCI slots or if the Comm Slot were a bit more
versatile.
Oh well, I suppose once I get this G3 chugging along, I'll
start the whole 'saving up' process again and get a more modern Mac...
Right now though, I really don't have the budget for one.
>>> On to video... I'm thinking it might make sense to go for the
>>> top of the line (well for the G3 anyway) Radeon 7000. I've read that
>>> there are some OS X compatibility issues with it. Have they been
>>> resolved?
>
>> Yes, and can even be hacked to run Quartz Extreme in 10.2. Besides, it's
>> the only game in town for decent PCI video cards.
>
>> OTOH, you may end up spending more than the price of a good used AGP
>> PowerMac G4, and definitely more than a used Blue&White G3, either of
>> which would run OS X much better and have a lot of what you want to
>> upgrade to built-in. Compare and contrast before blowing your wad.
>
>Better than the Radeon 7000 is the original Radeon for Mac PCI card.
>They are not being sold any longer, but sometimes can be found used for
>about $150. More expensive than the 7000, but about 25% faster. But
>keep your total cost in mind. Just mentioning it in case you run into
>one at a price better than normal. Some of the previous generation
>Rage 128 cards also can be used and will give better performance than
>the built-in Rage II+ or Pro. If you don't get a card, the internal
>video can be max'ed out to 6 MB with a 4 MB SO-DIMM. That runs about
>$15-20 if you don't already have it installed.
>
Now that's surprising. I wonder why the original Radeon would
be faster than the 7000. Is ATI throttling it? I am planning to take
advantage of the ATI trade up offer (if it's still valid), the built
in video is pretty weak and the XCLAIM card doesn't seem to be
providing much acceleration in OS X. Unless there are some additional
patches/hacks to improve its performance... I'm going to get a hold
of a 9.x.x disk soon though, so maybe the XCLAIM will be sufficient
for it. That way I can just tinker with OS X until/unless I get a ZIF
and/or a video card.
Joe Heimann
> On 9 Jan 2003 04:04:58 GMT, "Joe Heimann" <hei...@ecs.umass.edu>
> wrote:
>>Phil Lefebvre <p-lef...@gonorthwestern.edu> wrote:
>>> In article <bquo1vsqalt1sq9et...@4ax.com>,
>>> carlos...@earthlink.net wrote:
> <snip>
>>> I have 3 PC133 chips in my Beige G3. Work fine. Faster is better, and it
>>> didn't cost me anything extra.
>>
>>There are limitations on the RAM chips that the DIMM's are made of. In
>>practice this means that at 256 MB, the DIMM will need to have 16 chips
>>of RAM on it to be usable. A DIMM with fewer chips will not work. In
>>the Tech support area of OWC, www.macsales.com, there is/was information
>>on which RAM was usable. The owner has also posted those details on the
>>DealMac forum in the past, a search there will turn it up. Not so much
>>of an issue with PC66 or PC100 SDRAM, but some of the newer PC133 DIMM's
>>are being made with only 4 or 8 chips on 128 and 256 MB memory. These
>>will not work.
> This is interesting... I'll have to check the DIMMs I have
> and see if they comply.
If you are interested in the full specifications for memory, you can
download the developer documentation for Apple's Developer web site. The
hardware PDF is available from a link under "All Hardware Products" at
the following URL:
http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/hardware/hardware.html
It also documents the slots available and has details on the cards that
go into them.
> <snip>
> <snip>
No idea what current prices on these are running. Of course they go for
more from places selling them as repair parts than from persons parting
out a machine. Some of the limitations to this G3 model are due to it
being a transition design to a technology that Apple decided to drop.
The next design was supposed to be CHRP compliant or nearly so, but that
goal was dropped when Steve Jobs pushed out Gil Amelio and also killed
the clone licensing. So some of the beige G3's internals are reused
from previous models like the modem. The slot it was to go into only
got the necessary serial and power connections, not the full Comm Slot
II subset of the PCI slot as used in the 4400, 6500 and other PowerMacs.
Since hardware developers knew that any slot besides the PCI slot would
probably not be on a future machine, they only made Mac PCI hardware.
The original Radeon for Mac PCI and AGP cards were based on a better
chip set, the ATI Radeon 7200 if I remember the number right. That has
multiple rendering pipelines compared to the 7000 and has a few more
features handled in hardware instead of in the software driver. The
benchmarks done by a few sites comparing the cards show the original
Radeon getting higher framerates in 3D usage and slightly faster for
2D work as well. The Radeon 7000 with a retail price of $125 or so
compared to the $200+ for the original looks like it was positioned to
give ATI a low cost PCI upgrade for those who did not get the original
while available. ATI moved on to the 8500 chip set for AGP slots at
that point.
Joe Heimann
Steve Hix
> >
> >Well, Blue & White G3s sell for around $300-$400 on eBay. You can
> >probably get around $100 for your Beige G3 on eBay and buy an older
> >Power Mac G4 for around $500-600. Just a thought.
>
> I'll keep that in mind. Especially since many of the upgrades
> I'm looking at will also enhance a Blue & White G3... Well except
> maybe the Radeon 7000.
The Radeon 7000 Mac Edition may be better suited to the B&W G3
machines than any other Mac; it puts the graphics card by default in
a 66MHz slot, and the 7000 is 66MHz (and will also run in 33MHz
PCI slots).
Works perfectly in my B&W.
Phil Lefebvre
se...@mac.com (Steve Hix) wrote:
> The Radeon 7000 Mac Edition may be better suited to the B&W G3
> machines than any other Mac; it puts the graphics card by default in
> a 66MHz slot, and the 7000 is 66MHz (and will also run in 33MHz
> PCI slots).
>
> Works perfectly in my B&W.
Are you using OS 10.2? If so, have you tried enabling Quartz Extreme
using the PCI hack? Notice any difference? I've done that with the 7000
in my 8500. It didn't make much difference, but I am interested in
upgrading to a B&W G3. Since an AGP slot is a fancier version of a 66
MHz PCI slot, I was thinking it might work as well with a 7000 as an AGP
slot would with equivalent.
Applemac_G4
I'd do this right away: get more RAM. Buy 3 x 256 meg sticks and max it out
at 768 megs.
Then, I'd turn my attention to the hard disk drive. Probably get something
in the 80 gig range and leave yourself some $ left over for a new processor.
Next it will be time to upgrade the video on the machine with a PCI video
card. If you're planning on migrating to OS X, go with a Radeon 7000 PCI.
If not, save yourself some $ and get a windows version of a Voodoo 3 and
flash it for use in the Mac for under $30.
When Powerlogix releases their G3/800 processor, get it.
Tom Wyrick
Just wanted to chime in here, as I found this message thread very
interesting. I recently got ahold of a beige G3 system and have been
upgrading it too.
I know many people suggested buying the B&W G3 or a used G4 instead of
messing with the beige G3 -- but for one thing, I happen to really
like the look of the beige tower. I'm really not into Apple's newer
translucent, colored case designs at all. (I come from a long PC
background, so maybe that explains it, but I just feel like a computer
shouldn't look like a kid's toy.)
I also found that most of the upgrade options for a beige G3 are
pretty inexpensive, if you look in the right places. I easily located
256MB memory sticks on eBay for about $25 each, for example.
The most expensive (but most important) upgrade I spent money on was a
G4 533Mhz ZIF. I figure with that, I've already essentially got my
beige G3 up to comparable speeds with the iMac offerings, while
keeping a full set of "legacy" ports for supporting all of Apple's
older hardware, and room for expansion cards too.
I bought a Radeon Mac PCI card off eBay also. (They're tougher to
find than the Radeon 7000, but the original model simply called
"Radeon Mac edition" actually outperforms the currently manufactured
7000 version.)
I also picked up a 4 port firewire PCI card at CompUSA for $29.95.
(It seemed to be primarily intended for use with a PC, but in small
print on one part of the box it mentioned Mac OS X compatibility - so
I gave it a shot. Turns out it worked great, with no need to load any
extra drivers or anything.)
Lastly, I purchased the AHard Ultra 66 EIDE card to fill my remaining
PCI slot. I have a 20 gig. Maxtor EIDE drive I pulled from one of my
PCs which I paired up with it. I believe I spent $59.95 on this card.
I'm not 100% convinced it makes a huge difference in system
performance, but many web sites insist it does. (My only concern is
that you can only push so much data through the PCI bus slots before
you saturate them. The Radeon PCI card already generates a lot of
traffic on the PCI bus, as would a camcorder dumping a video feed
through my firewire port. If all my hard disk traffic funnels through
there too, I'm sure something's going to suffer.)
My final upgrade project for this beige G3 is moving over a Pioneer
A03 DVD-R drive, in place of the 24X Apple internal CD-ROM drive. I
tried this yesterday, but run into a "snag", only because the plastic
cover plate/bezel partially obstructs the Pioneer's drive tray from
opening! I found out there's an alternate cover plate you can buy to
solve this problem, but it costs about $20. I ordered one today, but
just left the old plate off for now.
It will be interesting to see how well the Pioneer drive works on this
sytem with iDVD and such. Ever since I bought it for one of my PCs,
I've been less than pleased with my ability to make movie discs. (The
PC DVD editing/burning software I've used feels pretty rough around
the edges, so my hope is the Mac will cover this task more smoothly.)