Unable to boot up an old 15" MBP (2008)'s Mac OS X v10.5.8/Mt. Lion...

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Ant

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Feb 18, 2017, 5:45:36 AM2/18/17
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Hi!

I have a broken 15" MacBook Pro (early 2008) with its updated Mac OS X
v10.5.8/Mountain Lion. I tried booting up this old MBP with these boot
ups' keys and without connected USB devices (mouse and external hub):

1. normal boot -- never reaches the user account screen. It stays stuck
in Apple logo's loading screen with its spinning wait icon.

2. shift -- never reaches the user account screen. It stays stuck in
Apple logo's loading screen with its spinning wait icon.

3. command+v (verbose) = saw the text mode with technical datas. Then,
it loaded the light blue screen for about a second and then back to text
black screen with a white block on the top left corner. Then back to
light blue screen to the black text screen with the top left white block
in a loop forever.

4. command+s (single-user mode) = got to its text bash prompt, but not
sure what to do here to dig deeper and fix. Need experts' help if I need
to use it. At least, this is usable.

5. command+r (recovery) = It stays stuck in Apple logo's loading screen
with its spinning wait icon. No OS X Utilities like in newer mac OSes. I
don't think Mac OS X v10.5.8 has this feature IIRC.

6. d (diagnostics) = Short test passed after about three minutes. It is
now running a long test which will take about 1.5 hours. Isn't this just
memory tests?

7. option-d (online diagnostics) = It stays stuck in Apple logo's
loading screen with its spinning wait icon. I don't think it has that
feature.

8. Option-Command-P-R (Reset NVRAM) = Heard a beep and saw bright screen
and heard loud volume as resets, but it did not fix the boot up issue.

I am trying to figure out if this is hardware or a software issue. :(
Any other ideas to try? I don't see how Apcupsd-3.14.14 could break it
that badly. Earlier, I downloaded and installed
https://sourceforge.net/projects/apcupsd/files/osx-binaries%20-%20Stable/3.14.14/'s
Apcupsd-3.14.14.dmg file into an old 15" MacBook Pro (2008) with its
updated Leopard v10.5.8 since
http://www.apcupsd.org/manual/manual.html#id37 says apcupsd supports Mac
OS X v10.4.x and higher. However, I was unable to save auto-opened
apcupsd.conf that I was required to edit due to lack of admin access
even though I was using an admin account. So, I tried to edit
/etc/apcupsd/apcupsd.conf in Terminal's with su and sudo commands but
they said something about PAM. I said frak it and rebooted, but it won't
boot up anymore. :(

Thank you in advance. :)
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David B.

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Feb 18, 2017, 9:33:14 AM2/18/17
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Might THIS be of help?

How to reinstall macOS https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204904

--
"Do something wonderful, people may imitate it." (Albert Schweitzer)

Christian

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Feb 18, 2017, 10:57:41 AM2/18/17
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David B. <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

> https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204904

Probably not - since (s)he never comes to the point where a GUI is
loaded...

You could try to use "target mode" to access the drive in the MacBook
from another computer - see
<http://osxdaily.com/2010/04/07/how-to-boot-a-mac-in-target-disk-mode/>
amd try to erase that disk completely before installing a new system on
it.

Christian

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nospam

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Feb 18, 2017, 11:11:40 AM2/18/17
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In article <vN-dnSbtmeFXuDXF...@earthlink.com>, Ant
<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I have a broken 15" MacBook Pro (early 2008) with its updated Mac OS X
> v10.5.8/Mountain Lion. I tried booting up this old MBP with these boot
> ups' keys and without connected USB devices (mouse and external hub):

do you mean 10.8.5, which is mountain lion? or do you really mean
10.5.8, which is leopard?

in any event, boot from an external hard drive that has a known good
system. if *that* fails, it's probably hardware. if it works, then all
you need to do is clean install.

if it is hardware and you have the dvd that came with the computer, try
booting while holding the d key down to run the hardware diagnostics
for additional information.

Ant

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Feb 18, 2017, 1:33:04 PM2/18/17
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On 2/18/2017 8:11 AM, nospam wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> I have a broken 15" MacBook Pro (early 2008) with its updated Mac OS X
>> v10.5.8/Mountain Lion. I tried booting up this old MBP with these boot
>> ups' keys and without connected USB devices (mouse and external hub):
>
> do you mean 10.8.5, which is mountain lion? or do you really mean
> 10.5.8, which is leopard?

Ah crap. Thanks. I meant Leopard. I was sick and up too late with this
last night.

>
> in any event, boot from an external hard drive that has a known good
> system. if *that* fails, it's probably hardware. if it works, then all
> you need to do is clean install.

OK. I am going to have to see if I can install 10.5.x into an external
USB HDD with MBP's original DVDs.

>
> if it is hardware and you have the dvd that came with the computer, try
> booting while holding the d key down to run the hardware diagnostics
> for additional information.

Isn't that the same (memory tests?) as the one in MBP that I ran
overnight? If so, then they passed.
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and jellyfish on the beach." --Elizabeth Blackburn

nospam

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Feb 18, 2017, 1:37:45 PM2/18/17
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In article <T86dndyRq_THDjXF...@earthlink.com>, Ant
<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> > in any event, boot from an external hard drive that has a known good
> > system. if *that* fails, it's probably hardware. if it works, then all
> > you need to do is clean install.
>
> OK. I am going to have to see if I can install 10.5.x into an external
> USB HDD with MBP's original DVDs.

it doesn't need to be 10.5. as long as it boots and operates normally,
you can be pretty sure that the hardware is not the problem.

> > if it is hardware and you have the dvd that came with the computer, try
> > booting while holding the d key down to run the hardware diagnostics
> > for additional information.
>
> Isn't that the same (memory tests?) as the one in MBP that I ran
> overnight? If so, then they passed.

i don't know what you ran, but the hardware diagnostics is more than
just a memory test.

Jolly Roger

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Feb 18, 2017, 1:51:00 PM2/18/17
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On 2017-02-18, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> On 2/18/2017 8:11 AM, nospam wrote:
>
>> in any event, boot from an external hard drive that has a known good
>> system. if *that* fails, it's probably hardware. if it works, then all
>> you need to do is clean install.
>
> OK. I am going to have to see if I can install 10.5.x into an external
> USB HDD with MBP's original DVDs.

No need for that. Just boot on the DVD that came with the computer. If
it boots fine, the problem is not the hardware.

>> if it is hardware and you have the dvd that came with the computer, try
>> booting while holding the d key down to run the hardware diagnostics
>> for additional information.
>
> Isn't that the same (memory tests?) as the one in MBP that I ran
> overnight? If so, then they passed.

Yes, but: See above.

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JR

Ant

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Feb 18, 2017, 3:19:32 PM2/18/17
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It said memory tests. Both short and long tests passed.
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Ant

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Feb 18, 2017, 3:23:16 PM2/18/17
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In comp.sys.mac.system Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2017-02-18, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> > On 2/18/2017 8:11 AM, nospam wrote:
> >
> >> in any event, boot from an external hard drive that has a known good
> >> system. if *that* fails, it's probably hardware. if it works, then all
> >> you need to do is clean install.
> >
> > OK. I am going to have to see if I can install 10.5.x into an external
> > USB HDD with MBP's original DVDs.

> No need for that. Just boot on the DVD that came with the computer. If
> it boots fine, the problem is not the hardware.

I found the original 10.5/Leopard's 2 DVDs and was able to boot from it.
I ran its Disk Utility's verifications and found only problems with
permissions (repairing as I type this) so it looks like OS's datas are
hosed or something. We'll see.

If this doesn't fix it, then I might have to reinstall (from scratch?).
I do have the newer Mac OS X versions' installer from Mountain Lion
v10.8.x to Sierra on another drive. I will have to see if I can use
them. I guess I will have to make bootable on external USB flash drives,
discs, etc. :(
--
Quote of the Week: "Applied mathematics will always need pure
mathematics, just as anteaters will always need ants." --Paul Halmos
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nospam

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Feb 18, 2017, 3:28:33 PM2/18/17
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In article <P7-dnXbQma6zMDXF...@earthlink.com>, Ant
<ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:

> > >> in any event, boot from an external hard drive that has a known good
> > >> system. if *that* fails, it's probably hardware. if it works, then all
> > >> you need to do is clean install.
> > >
> > > OK. I am going to have to see if I can install 10.5.x into an external
> > > USB HDD with MBP's original DVDs.
>
> > No need for that. Just boot on the DVD that came with the computer. If
> > it boots fine, the problem is not the hardware.
>
> I found the original 10.5/Leopard's 2 DVDs and was able to boot from it.
> I ran its Disk Utility's verifications and found only problems with
> permissions (repairing as I type this) so it looks like OS's datas are
> hosed or something. We'll see.

the second disc should have the hardware diagnostics on it.

> If this doesn't fix it, then I might have to reinstall (from scratch?).

do that on an external drive to see if it's actually going to fix
anything.

> I do have the newer Mac OS X versions' installer from Mountain Lion
> v10.8.x to Sierra on another drive. I will have to see if I can use
> them. I guess I will have to make bootable on external USB flash drives,
> discs, etc. :(

yep.

Jolly Roger

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Feb 18, 2017, 3:59:27 PM2/18/17
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On 2017-02-18, Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> In comp.sys.mac.system nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> In article <T86dndyRq_THDjXF...@earthlink.com>, Ant
>> <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>
>> > > in any event, boot from an external hard drive that has a known good
>> > > system. if *that* fails, it's probably hardware. if it works, then all
>> > > you need to do is clean install.
>> >
>> > OK. I am going to have to see if I can install 10.5.x into an external
>> > USB HDD with MBP's original DVDs.
>
>> it doesn't need to be 10.5. as long as it boots and operates normally,
>> you can be pretty sure that the hardware is not the problem.
>
>> > > if it is hardware and you have the dvd that came with the computer, try
>> > > booting while holding the d key down to run the hardware diagnostics
>> > > for additional information.
>> >
>> > Isn't that the same (memory tests?) as the one in MBP that I ran
>> > overnight? If so, then they passed.
>
>> i don't know what you ran, but the hardware diagnostics is more than
>> just a memory test.
>
> It said memory tests

It said way more than just memory tests.

Ant

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Feb 18, 2017, 6:10:22 PM2/18/17
to
In comp.sys.mac.system Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2017-02-18, Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> > In comp.sys.mac.system nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> >> In article <T86dndyRq_THDjXF...@earthlink.com>, Ant
> >> <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> >
> >> > > in any event, boot from an external hard drive that has a known good
> >> > > system. if *that* fails, it's probably hardware. if it works, then all
> >> > > you need to do is clean install.
> >> >
> >> > OK. I am going to have to see if I can install 10.5.x into an external
> >> > USB HDD with MBP's original DVDs.
> >
> >> it doesn't need to be 10.5. as long as it boots and operates normally,
> >> you can be pretty sure that the hardware is not the problem.
> >
> >> > > if it is hardware and you have the dvd that came with the computer, try
> >> > > booting while holding the d key down to run the hardware diagnostics
> >> > > for additional information.
> >> >
> >> > Isn't that the same (memory tests?) as the one in MBP that I ran
> >> > overnight? If so, then they passed.
> >
> >> i don't know what you ran, but the hardware diagnostics is more than
> >> just a memory test.
> >
> > It said memory tests

> It said way more than just memory tests.

OK if you say so. Both tests passed. At least we know booting up MBP's
included v10.5 DVD installer worked including its Disk Utility
(permissions and disk in Hitachi internal HDD).

Ant

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Feb 18, 2017, 6:13:16 PM2/18/17
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In comp.sys.mac.system nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <P7-dnXbQma6zMDXF...@earthlink.com>, Ant
> <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:

> > > >> in any event, boot from an external hard drive that has a known good
> > > >> system. if *that* fails, it's probably hardware. if it works, then all
> > > >> you need to do is clean install.
> > > >
> > > > OK. I am going to have to see if I can install 10.5.x into an external
> > > > USB HDD with MBP's original DVDs.
> >
> > > No need for that. Just boot on the DVD that came with the computer. If
> > > it boots fine, the problem is not the hardware.
> >
> > I found the original 10.5/Leopard's 2 DVDs and was able to boot from it.
> > I ran its Disk Utility's verifications and found only problems with
> > permissions (repairing as I type this) so it looks like OS's datas are
> > hosed or something. We'll see.

> the second disc should have the hardware diagnostics on it.

Do I boot from it? Its label didn't have instructions on how to boot it.
Its first DVD does (hold down C key during power up). Also, wouldn't
these be the same diagnostic tests as the internal MBP's D key? Or are
these different? I am not at the broken MBP right now to check.


> > If this doesn't fix it, then I might have to reinstall (from scratch?).

> do that on an external drive to see if it's actually going to fix
> anything.

Will the old MBP be able to handle a new USB3 WD 2 TB HDD?

nospam

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Feb 18, 2017, 6:14:40 PM2/18/17
to
In article <ZeadnY0p9ZOaSDXF...@earthlink.com>, Ant
<ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:

> > > I found the original 10.5/Leopard's 2 DVDs and was able to boot from it.
> > > I ran its Disk Utility's verifications and found only problems with
> > > permissions (repairing as I type this) so it looks like OS's datas are
> > > hosed or something. We'll see.
>
> > the second disc should have the hardware diagnostics on it.
>
> Do I boot from it? Its label didn't have instructions on how to boot it.
> Its first DVD does (hold down C key during power up). Also, wouldn't
> these be the same diagnostic tests as the internal MBP's D key? Or are
> these different? I am not at the broken MBP right now to check.

d for diagnostics. it should say that on the disc itself.

> > > If this doesn't fix it, then I might have to reinstall (from scratch?).
>
> > do that on an external drive to see if it's actually going to fix
> > anything.
>
> Will the old MBP be able to handle a new USB3 WD 2 TB HDD?

yep, but at usb 2 speeds.

Ant

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Feb 18, 2017, 6:31:18 PM2/18/17
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In comp.sys.mac.system nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <ZeadnY0p9ZOaSDXF...@earthlink.com>, Ant
> <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:

> > > > I found the original 10.5/Leopard's 2 DVDs and was able to boot from it.
> > > > I ran its Disk Utility's verifications and found only problems with
> > > > permissions (repairing as I type this) so it looks like OS's datas are
> > > > hosed or something. We'll see.
> >
> > > the second disc should have the hardware diagnostics on it.
> >
> > Do I boot from it? Its label didn't have instructions on how to boot it.
> > Its first DVD does (hold down C key during power up). Also, wouldn't
> > these be the same diagnostic tests as the internal MBP's D key? Or are
> > these different? I am not at the broken MBP right now to check.

> d for diagnostics. it should say that on the disc itself.

Ah. I remember using D but it looked like the same one I saw in MBP
without its DVD inserted unless I did it wrong. I will recheck later.


> > > > If this doesn't fix it, then I might have to reinstall (from scratch?).
> >
> > > do that on an external drive to see if it's actually going to fix
> > > anything.
> >
> > Will the old MBP be able to handle a new USB3 WD 2 TB HDD?

> yep, but at usb 2 speeds.

OK cool. I know some old computers can't handle huge newer drives. :(

OK. I will just hook up an external USB HDD, boot up Mac OS X
v10.5/Leopard installer DVD, install into the external drive, and test.
I have never done it from a DVD source in Macs. I always did it inside
installed OS.

nospam

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Feb 18, 2017, 6:36:19 PM2/18/17
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In article <VICdncqLP6_dRDXF...@earthlink.com>, Ant
<ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:



> OK. I will just hook up an external USB HDD, boot up Mac OS X
> v10.5/Leopard installer DVD, install into the external drive, and test.
> I have never done it from a DVD source in Macs. I always did it inside
> installed OS.

any drive with el capitan or earlier will suffice.

also, run diskwarrior on the internal drive while you're at it.

Ant

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Feb 18, 2017, 6:49:09 PM2/18/17
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In comp.sys.mac.system nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <VICdncqLP6_dRDXF...@earthlink.com>, Ant
> <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:

> > OK. I will just hook up an external USB HDD, boot up Mac OS X
> > v10.5/Leopard installer DVD, install into the external drive, and test.
> > I have never done it from a DVD source in Macs. I always did it inside
> > installed OS.

> any drive with el capitan or earlier will suffice.

Yeah, I need to get a bootable installer for the newer version which
I don't have yet. I only have their downloaded apps from App Store. I
need to get another Mac to make them. Unless I can do them in 64-bit
Windows 7 and Linux/Debian (Jessie/stable) which I doubt? I am quite
limited in Macs these days since I no longer work for the company that
let me work on a newer Macs. :(

However, I just found an old burned v10.8.2/Mountain Lion DVD+R DL disc
I made from 2012. I could use these too. :D Although, I'm not sure if
this old MBP can read dual layer DVD+Rs?

nospam

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Feb 18, 2017, 6:50:26 PM2/18/17
to
In article <pqWdnTMbX7PyQDXF...@earthlink.com>, Ant
<ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:

> > > OK. I will just hook up an external USB HDD, boot up Mac OS X
> > > v10.5/Leopard installer DVD, install into the external drive, and test.
> > > I have never done it from a DVD source in Macs. I always did it inside
> > > installed OS.
>
> > any drive with el capitan or earlier will suffice.
>
> Yeah, I need to get a bootable installer for the newer version which
> I don't have yet. I only have their downloaded apps from App Store. I
> need to get another Mac to make them. Unless I can do them in 64-bit
> Windows 7 and Linux/Debian (Jessie/stable) which I doubt? I am quite
> limited in Macs these days since I no longer work for the company that
> let me work on a newer Macs. :(

don't you have a spare drive with a bootable system? even a usb stick
will work.

> However, I just found an old burned v10.8.2/Mountain Lion DVD+R DL disc
> I made from 2012. I could use these too. :D Although, I'm not sure if
> this old MBP can read dual layer DVD+Rs?

it should.

Ant

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Feb 18, 2017, 7:43:57 PM2/18/17
to
On 2/18/2017 3:50 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article <pqWdnTMbX7PyQDXF...@earthlink.com>, Ant
> <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
>
>>>> OK. I will just hook up an external USB HDD, boot up Mac OS X
>>>> v10.5/Leopard installer DVD, install into the external drive, and test.
>>>> I have never done it from a DVD source in Macs. I always did it inside
>>>> installed OS.
>>
>>> any drive with el capitan or earlier will suffice.
>>
>> Yeah, I need to get a bootable installer for the newer version which
>> I don't have yet. I only have their downloaded apps from App Store. I
>> need to get another Mac to make them. Unless I can do them in 64-bit
>> Windows 7 and Linux/Debian (Jessie/stable) which I doubt? I am quite
>> limited in Macs these days since I no longer work for the company that
>> let me work on a newer Macs. :(
>
> don't you have a spare drive with a bootable system? even a usb stick
> will work.

Not right now. I still have that encrypted mac OS Sierra on there, but I
doubt this old 2008 MBP can boot it.


>> However, I just found an old burned v10.8.2/Mountain Lion DVD+R DL disc
>> I made from 2012. I could use these too. :D Although, I'm not sure if
>> this old MBP can read dual layer DVD+Rs?
>
> it should.

It doesn't. :( It (ejec/spit)ted the disc out after trying to boot. I
guess its internal SuperDisc drive can't read dual layered DVD+Rs.
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nospam

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Feb 18, 2017, 7:48:49 PM2/18/17
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In article <MM6dnWi9QfvadzXF...@earthlink.com>, Ant
<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> >
> > don't you have a spare drive with a bootable system? even a usb stick
> > will work.
>
> Not right now. I still have that encrypted mac OS Sierra on there, but I
> doubt this old 2008 MBP can boot it.

it can't.

> >> However, I just found an old burned v10.8.2/Mountain Lion DVD+R DL disc
> >> I made from 2012. I could use these too. :D Although, I'm not sure if
> >> this old MBP can read dual layer DVD+Rs?
> >
> > it should.
>
> It doesn't. :( It (ejec/spit)ted the disc out after trying to boot. I
> guess its internal SuperDisc drive can't read dual layered DVD+Rs.

it can.

either the dvd drive failed or the disc isn't actually bootable.

Ant

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Feb 18, 2017, 9:27:38 PM2/18/17
to
On 2/18/2017 4:48 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article <MM6dnWi9QfvadzXF...@earthlink.com>, Ant
> <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> don't you have a spare drive with a bootable system? even a usb stick
>>> will work.
>>
>> Not right now. I still have that encrypted mac OS Sierra on there, but I
>> doubt this old 2008 MBP can boot it.
>
> it can't.

Then, I will have to redo it with an older supported Mac OS X version. :P


>>>> However, I just found an old burned v10.8.2/Mountain Lion DVD+R DL disc
>>>> I made from 2012. I could use these too. :D Although, I'm not sure if
>>>> this old MBP can read dual layer DVD+Rs?
>>>
>>> it should.
>>
>> It doesn't. :( It (ejec/spit)ted the disc out after trying to boot. I
>> guess its internal SuperDisc drive can't read dual layered DVD+Rs.
>
> it can.
>
> either the dvd drive failed or the disc isn't actually bootable.

I just tried the same bootable burned Memorex DL DVD+R in a 13.3" 2012
MBP. It booted it fine even though it took a very long time like 10
minutes. Sheesh. :P I'll try the broken 15" 2008 MBP (4,1) later again
with this disc.
--
"The constant creeping of ants will wear away the stone." --unknown

nospam

unread,
Feb 18, 2017, 9:30:15 PM2/18/17
to
In article <xNWdnU4_kIIJnzTF...@earthlink.com>, Ant
<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> >>>> However, I just found an old burned v10.8.2/Mountain Lion DVD+R DL disc
> >>>> I made from 2012. I could use these too. :D Although, I'm not sure if
> >>>> this old MBP can read dual layer DVD+Rs?
> >>>
> >>> it should.
> >>
> >> It doesn't. :( It (ejec/spit)ted the disc out after trying to boot. I
> >> guess its internal SuperDisc drive can't read dual layered DVD+Rs.
> >
> > it can.
> >
> > either the dvd drive failed or the disc isn't actually bootable.
>
> I just tried the same bootable burned Memorex DL DVD+R in a 13.3" 2012
> MBP. It booted it fine

then the dvd drive is probably broken

> even though it took a very long time like 10
> minutes. Sheesh. :P I'll try the broken 15" 2008 MBP (4,1) later again
> with this disc.

booting off an optical disc, especially over usb, is slow as all fuck.

use a hard drive or usb stick.

Ant

unread,
Feb 18, 2017, 9:58:05 PM2/18/17
to
On 2/18/2017 6:30 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article <xNWdnU4_kIIJnzTF...@earthlink.com>, Ant
> <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>
>>>>>> However, I just found an old burned v10.8.2/Mountain Lion DVD+R DL disc
>>>>>> I made from 2012. I could use these too. :D Although, I'm not sure if
>>>>>> this old MBP can read dual layer DVD+Rs?
>>>>>
>>>>> it should.
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't. :( It (ejec/spit)ted the disc out after trying to boot. I
>>>> guess its internal SuperDisc drive can't read dual layered DVD+Rs.
>>>
>>> it can.
>>>
>>> either the dvd drive failed or the disc isn't actually bootable.
>>
>> I just tried the same bootable burned Memorex DL DVD+R in a 13.3" 2012
>> MBP. It booted it fine
>
> then the dvd drive is probably broken

I checked with MBP's v10.5.2 DVD installer's System Profile, and it says
the optical drive does support dual layer. It is the drive and/or the
burned DVD even though it worked fine in 2012 MBP's internal optical
drive. Bah. I guess no v10.8.2 DVD installer.
--
"There are things in the Universe billions of years older than either of
our races. They are vast, timeless, and if they are aware of us at all,
it is as little more than ants and we have as much chance of
communicating with them as an ant has with us. We know. We've tried and
we've learned that we can either stay out from underfoot or be stepped
on. They are a mystery and I am both terrified and reassured that to
know that there are still wonders in the Universe, that we have not
explained everything. Whatever they are, Miss Sakai, they walk near
Sigma 957 and they must walk there alone." --G'Kar - Mind War

Ant

unread,
Feb 19, 2017, 1:15:23 PM2/19/17
to
On 2/18/2017 10:33 AM, Ant wrote:
...
>> in any event, boot from an external hard drive that has a known good
>> system. if *that* fails, it's probably hardware. if it works, then all
>> you need to do is clean install.
>
> OK. I am going to have to see if I can install 10.5.x into an external
> USB HDD with MBP's original DVDs.

OK, back to work on this old 15" early 2008 MBP. There were issues I ran
into with the external WDC 2 TB USB HDD with MBP's Mac OS X v10.5.2 DVDs:

1. It didn't want to see the drive, but eventually it worked. Weird.
2. It did not like the partition setups like my FAT32, so I had to redo
it with its HFS Journal.
3. I couldn't reinstall into the old MBP's HDD with its installed and
updated Mac OS X v10.5.8 because of the versions (can't install older
over newer). So I would have to wipe it if I wanted to reinstall it.
Don't have a newer Mac OS X version yet. I'll worry about it later. I am
not touching the internal HDD yet.

Currently, the installer is slowly verifying the DVDs are OK before
installing the OS. Weird that I can't move my trackpad cursor. The video
shows its status bar animating and percentage going up slowly though. I
hope I don't run into more issues (always do :() and that this old MBP
can boot from it too after it is done.

To be continued...
--
"... Hey. Could we do that again? I know we haven't met, but I don't
want to be an ant. You know? I mean, it's like we go through life with
our antennae bouncing off one another, continously on ant autopilot,
with nothing really human required of us. 'Stop.' 'Go.' 'Walk here.'
'Drive there.' All action basically for survival. All communication
simply to keep this ant colony buzzing along in an efficient, polite
manner. 'Here's your change.' 'Paper or plastic?' 'Credit or debit?"'
'You want ketchup with that' I don't want a straw. I want real human
moments. I want to see you. I want you to see me. I don't want to give
that up. I don't want to be ant, you know?" "Yeah... yeah I know. I
don't want to be an ant either. Thanks for kinda, like, josteling me
there... I've been kinda on zombie autopilot lately. I don't feel like
an ant in my head, but I guess I probably look like one..." --Waking
Life movie

Ant

unread,
Feb 19, 2017, 1:24:49 PM2/19/17
to
On 2/19/2017 10:15 AM, Ant wrote:
> On 2/18/2017 10:33 AM, Ant wrote:
> ...
>>> in any event, boot from an external hard drive that has a known good
>>> system. if *that* fails, it's probably hardware. if it works, then all
>>> you need to do is clean install.
>>
>> OK. I am going to have to see if I can install 10.5.x into an external
>> USB HDD with MBP's original DVDs.
>
> OK, back to work on this old 15" early 2008 MBP. There were issues I ran
> into with the external WDC 2 TB USB HDD with MBP's Mac OS X v10.5.2 DVDs:
>
> 1. It didn't want to see the drive, but eventually it worked. Weird.
> 2. It did not like the partition setups like my FAT32, so I had to redo
> it with its HFS Journal.
> 3. I couldn't reinstall into the old MBP's HDD with its installed and
> updated Mac OS X v10.5.8 because of the versions (can't install older
> over newer). So I would have to wipe it if I wanted to reinstall it.
> Don't have a newer Mac OS X version yet. I'll worry about it later. I am
> not touching the internal HDD yet.
>
> Currently, the installer is slowly verifying the DVDs are OK before
> installing the OS. Weird that I can't move my trackpad cursor. The video
> shows its status bar animating and percentage going up slowly though. I
> hope I don't run into more issues (always do :() and that this old MBP
> can boot from it too after it is done.
>
> To be continued...

Uh oh. MBP's display dimmed after and then went black (energy saving I
assume from idling). I can't seem to wake it up. I don't know if is
still running? I still feel heat from the keyboard and hear its fan(s),
so it is doing something? I don't hear and feel the DVD spinning. How do
I wake it up or even disable this monitor sleep during DVD installer? :(
--
"Did the ant fall off the toilet seat because she was pissed off?" --unknown

Ant

unread,
Feb 19, 2017, 1:49:33 PM2/19/17
to
Ah, pressing power button once wakes it up but I still can't move my
cursor. Also, my install failed and I noticed my USB HDD's power light
was off (disconnected?). :( I will have to try again. Argh!
--
"Doubts are the ants in the pants of faith, keeping it awake and
moving." --Fredrick Beuchner

Ant

unread,
Feb 19, 2017, 2:06:09 PM2/19/17
to
Installing with take about a couple hours. MBP likes to dim and then
probably turn off its display. Trackpad's mouse cursor still works. I
think it goes off when the display goes off? I don't think I can keep
touching to keep it awake so often too for two hours. :(
--
"There are things in the Universe billions of years older than either of
our races. They are vast, timeless, and if they are aware of us at all,
it is as little more than ants and we have as much chance of
communicating with them as an ant has with us. We know. We've tried and
we've learned that we can either stay out from underfoot or be stepped
on. They are a mystery and I am both terrified and reassured that to
know that there are still wonders in the Universe, that we have not
explained everything. Whatever they are, Miss Sakai, they walk near
Sigma 957 and they must walk there alone." --G'Kar - Mind War

Ant

unread,
Feb 19, 2017, 2:41:35 PM2/19/17
to
Yep, trackpad's response is lost when MBP's display goes to sleep and
after waking up. :( The good news is that there is about 15 minutes
left! Crossing fingers that this worked.
--
"We are closer to the ants than to butterflies. Very few people can
endure much leisure." --Gerald Brenan

David Empson

unread,
Feb 19, 2017, 2:44:29 PM2/19/17
to
Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> On 2/19/2017 10:49 AM, Ant wrote:
> > On 2/19/2017 10:24 AM, Ant wrote:
> >> On 2/19/2017 10:15 AM, Ant wrote:
> >>> OK, back to work on this old 15" early 2008 MBP. There were issues I ran
> >>> into with the external WDC 2 TB USB HDD with MBP's Mac OS X v10.5.2
> >>> DVDs:
> >>>
> >>> 1. It didn't want to see the drive, but eventually it worked. Weird.
> >>> 2. It did not like the partition setups like my FAT32, so I had to redo
> >>> it with its HFS Journal.
> >>> 3. I couldn't reinstall into the old MBP's HDD with its installed and
> >>> updated Mac OS X v10.5.8 because of the versions (can't install older
> >>> over newer). So I would have to wipe it if I wanted to reinstall it.
> >>> Don't have a newer Mac OS X version yet. I'll worry about it later. I am
> >>> not touching the internal HDD yet.

Items 2 and 3 are expected. "Not seeing the drive" has too many possible
explanations to analyze.

> >>> Currently, the installer is slowly verifying the DVDs are OK before
> >>> installing the OS. Weird that I can't move my trackpad cursor.

Being unable to move the cursor with the trackpad is NOT normal.

> >>> The video shows its status bar animating and percentage going up
> >>> slowly though. I hope I don't run into more issues (always do :() and
> >>> that this old MBP can boot from it too after it is done.
> >>>
> >>> To be continued...
> >>
> >> Uh oh. MBP's display dimmed after and then went black (energy saving I
> >> assume from idling). I can't seem to wake it up.

Apart from the trackpad problem, did you try the keyboard as well? The
keyboard and trackpad are actually part of the same internal USB
peripheral in many Mac notebook models, so if one was misbehaving, the
other might as well.

> >> I don't know if is still running? I still feel heat from the keyboard
> >> and hear its fan(s), so it is doing something? I don't hear and feel
> >> the DVD spinning. How do I wake it up or even disable this monitor
> >> sleep during DVD installer? :(
> >
> > Ah, pressing power button once wakes it up

The power button is connected separately from the rest of the keyboard,
and has a direct line to the system management controller (e.g. to power
on and do forced power off), so that probably was able to wake the
computer even though the keyboard and trackpad weren't working.

> > but I still can't move my cursor. Also, my install failed and I noticed
> > my USB HDD's power light was off (disconnected?). :( I will have to try
> > again. Argh!
>
> Installing with take about a couple hours. MBP likes to dim and then
> probably turn off its display. Trackpad's mouse cursor still works. I
> think it goes off when the display goes off?

No, the trackpad should keep working after the display goes off (it
should be possible to wake the display with a keypress or button click,
then move the cursor with the trackpad). There could be some kind of
intermittent fault which is either affecting USB input devices
collectively, or a specific fault with the internal trackpad and
keyboard. There could also be a software problem, e.g. if 10.5.2 had a
bug which resulted in USB problems including losing connection with the
keyboard/trackpad (I don't recall that, but early 10.5.x did have a fair
number of serious bugs).

Do you have an external USB mouse and/or keyboard you can plug in? (Any
brand - they don't have to be Apple ones.) If the trackpad locks up
again (and the built-in keyboard along with it) you could try the
external ones to see whether the problem is specific to the internal
ones.

> I don't think I can keep touching to keep it awake so often too for two
> hours. :(


--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

Ant

unread,
Feb 19, 2017, 2:52:36 PM2/19/17
to
On 2/19/2017 11:44 AM, David Empson wrote:
> Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>
>> On 2/19/2017 10:49 AM, Ant wrote:
>>> On 2/19/2017 10:24 AM, Ant wrote:
>>>> On 2/19/2017 10:15 AM, Ant wrote:
>>>>> OK, back to work on this old 15" early 2008 MBP. There were issues I ran
>>>>> into with the external WDC 2 TB USB HDD with MBP's Mac OS X v10.5.2
>>>>> DVDs:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. It didn't want to see the drive, but eventually it worked. Weird.
>>>>> 2. It did not like the partition setups like my FAT32, so I had to redo
>>>>> it with its HFS Journal.
>>>>> 3. I couldn't reinstall into the old MBP's HDD with its installed and
>>>>> updated Mac OS X v10.5.8 because of the versions (can't install older
>>>>> over newer). So I would have to wipe it if I wanted to reinstall it.
>>>>> Don't have a newer Mac OS X version yet. I'll worry about it later. I am
>>>>> not touching the internal HDD yet.
>
> Items 2 and 3 are expected. "Not seeing the drive" has too many possible
> explanations to analyze.

OK.


>>>>> Currently, the installer is slowly verifying the DVDs are OK before
>>>>> installing the OS. Weird that I can't move my trackpad cursor.
>
> Being unable to move the cursor with the trackpad is NOT normal.

It seems to only happen when MBP's display sleeps and after waking up
from idling too long. It's like caused by energy saving? I can't figure
out how to disable it in Mac OS X/Leopard v10.5.2 if it exists. I am
assuming it doesn't. :(


>>>>> The video shows its status bar animating and percentage going up
>>>>> slowly though. I hope I don't run into more issues (always do :() and
>>>>> that this old MBP can boot from it too after it is done.
>>>>>
>>>>> To be continued...
>>>>
>>>> Uh oh. MBP's display dimmed after and then went black (energy saving I
>>>> assume from idling). I can't seem to wake it up.
>
> Apart from the trackpad problem, did you try the keyboard as well? The
> keyboard and trackpad are actually part of the same internal USB
> peripheral in many Mac notebook models, so if one was misbehaving, the
> other might as well.

Yeah. Ah, interesting. Sharing. Power button woke it up though. Hmm,
this sounds like a hardware issue then.

>
>>>> I don't know if is still running? I still feel heat from the keyboard
>>>> and hear its fan(s), so it is doing something? I don't hear and feel
>>>> the DVD spinning. How do I wake it up or even disable this monitor
>>>> sleep during DVD installer? :(
>>>
>>> Ah, pressing power button once wakes it up
>
> The power button is connected separately from the rest of the keyboard,
> and has a direct line to the system management controller (e.g. to power
> on and do forced power off), so that probably was able to wake the
> computer even though the keyboard and trackpad weren't working.

Ah, that explains it.


>>> but I still can't move my cursor. Also, my install failed and I noticed
>>> my USB HDD's power light was off (disconnected?). :( I will have to try
>>> again. Argh!
>>
>> Installing with take about a couple hours. MBP likes to dim and then
>> probably turn off its display. Trackpad's mouse cursor still works. I
>> think it goes off when the display goes off?
>
> No, the trackpad should keep working after the display goes off (it
> should be possible to wake the display with a keypress or button click,
> then move the cursor with the trackpad). There could be some kind of
> intermittent fault which is either affecting USB input devices
> collectively, or a specific fault with the internal trackpad and
> keyboard. There could also be a software problem, e.g. if 10.5.2 had a
> bug which resulted in USB problems including losing connection with the
> keyboard/trackpad (I don't recall that, but early 10.5.x did have a fair
> number of serious bugs).

That's probably it. :(


> Do you have an external USB mouse and/or keyboard you can plug in? (Any
> brand - they don't have to be Apple ones.) If the trackpad locks up
> again (and the built-in keyboard along with it) you could try the
> external ones to see whether the problem is specific to the internal
> ones.

No to external USB kb, but yes to USB mouse. I am trying to keep things
simple without interferences.
--
"Let him who boasts the knowledge of actually existing things, first
tell us of the nature of the ant." --Saint Basil quote from his letter
XVI written against Eunomius the Heretic

Ant

unread,
Feb 19, 2017, 2:54:40 PM2/19/17
to
Cool. It finished, autorebooted, booted from external HDD, asked me to
insert DVD #2, resuming installation... To be continued. I am trying to
keep this MBP awake!
--
"I'm not a worker ant. I'm like a queen. Or maybe a king. But you never
hear of king ants." --Sean Bentley

Ant

unread,
Feb 19, 2017, 4:24:35 PM2/19/17
to
Yay, I finally and sucessfully booted up the brand new Mac OS X v10.5.2
from the external USB HDD. Its required registration was annoying (no
cancel and skip options)! I just wanted to install and test! So, I
entered fake datas.

Anyways, I also updated v10.5.2 to v10.5.8 and all of its updates until
there were nothing left. Also, I can see and access MBP's internal USB
HDD just fine. I wonder if I can fix the issue in it. Any ideas what to
try? This would be a good practice for me if it is possible. ;)


Also for kicks for the future newer OS X versions, I tried to see if my
App Store's downloaded newer Mac OS X installers:
El Capitan v10.11.5 = "not supported on this architecture"
Yosemite v10.10.5 = "cannot use the application with this version of OS X"
Mountain Lion v10.8.5 = "cannot use the application with this version of
OS X"
What the heck? Do I really need to get v10.6 first to upgrade or do a
clean install?


Oh, and its trackpad and keyboard stopped responding before MBP's
display went to black in Mac OS X v10.5.8. It happened during the dimmed
screen after the upgrade and reboot. Its power button responded to
brighten up the screen and asked me what to do (shut down, reboot,
etc.). I connected a very old USB mouse, and I could move my mouse
cursor again. Internal keyboard (don't have an external USB type -- only
PS/2 type), nope!
--
"Ants make up two-thirds of the biomass of all the insects. There are
millions of species of organisms and we know almost nothing about them."
--E. O. Wilson

nospam

unread,
Feb 19, 2017, 4:31:58 PM2/19/17
to
In article <b-WdnQN4gLaQkDfF...@earthlink.com>, Ant
<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>
> Yay, I finally and sucessfully booted up the brand new Mac OS X v10.5.2
> from the external USB HDD. Its required registration was annoying (no
> cancel and skip options)! I just wanted to install and test! So, I
> entered fake datas.

there is no required registration for mac os.


>
>
> Also for kicks for the future newer OS X versions, I tried to see if my
> App Store's downloaded newer Mac OS X installers:
> El Capitan v10.11.5 = "not supported on this architecture"
> Yosemite v10.10.5 = "cannot use the application with this version of OS X"
> Mountain Lion v10.8.5 = "cannot use the application with this version of
> OS X"
> What the heck? Do I really need to get v10.6 first to upgrade or do a
> clean install?

you need 10.6.6 or later for access to the app store to be able to
download a later version of mac os.

you can also use another mac to make a usb stick with a macos installer
on it, which can then be used even if the target mac has an empty hard
drive, and if it has 10.5, you probably will need to make it blank for
the installer to not complain.

Jolly Roger

unread,
Feb 19, 2017, 4:36:55 PM2/19/17
to
On 2017-02-19, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

Reminder:
Please trim unnecessary quoted material from your replies so we don't
have to scroll through needless crap to see what you wrote. Pretty sure
you've been asked to do so several times in the past. ; )

> Yay, I finally and sucessfully booted up the brand new Mac OS X
> v10.5.2 from the external USB HDD. Its required registration was
> annoying (no cancel and skip options)!

For as long as I can remember the Command-Q (Quit) command has skipped
the optional registration.

> Anyways, I also updated v10.5.2 to v10.5.8 and all of its updates
> until there were nothing left. Also, I can see and access MBP's
> internal USB HDD just fine. I wonder if I can fix the issue in it. Any
> ideas what to try? This would be a good practice for me if it is
> possible. ;)

Boot in verbose mode and pay attention to the messages that are
displayed. The startup messages will often tell you what's wrong with a
system that is failing to start up properly. Look for *errors* and
*failures* in particular. Post the messages here (photos or transcribed)
for help figuring out what they mean if needed.

> Also for kicks for the future newer OS X versions, I tried to see if
> my App Store's downloaded newer Mac OS X installers: El Capitan
> v10.11.5 = "not supported on this architecture" Yosemite v10.10.5 =
> "cannot use the application with this version of OS X" Mountain Lion
> v10.8.5 = "cannot use the application with this version of OS X" What
> the heck?

Newer systems often drop support for older hardware. Is that really a
surprise to you? How long have you been an Apple user again?

> Do I really need to get v10.6 first to upgrade or do a clean install?

I highly recommend running 10.6 if the hardware supports it.

David Empson

unread,
Feb 19, 2017, 4:55:29 PM2/19/17
to
Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> Yay, I finally and sucessfully booted up the brand new Mac OS X v10.5.2
> from the external USB HDD. Its required registration was annoying (no
> cancel and skip options)! I just wanted to install and test! So, I
> entered fake datas.

It does, in fact - they are just hidden. You can avoid the entire
registration stuff by using Command-Q at the point it starts asking
setup questions after installation. It will then offer to shut down, or
create an account. Choose the create account option and you only need to
specify a name and password.

> Anyways, I also updated v10.5.2 to v10.5.8 and all of its updates until
> there were nothing left. Also, I can see and access MBP's internal USB
> HDD just fine. I wonder if I can fix the issue in it. Any ideas what to
> try? This would be a good practice for me if it is possible. ;)

Depends where the problem is. On the theory that something in the OS is
damaged, you could try using Migration Assistant to migrate your user
account from the internal drive, but you've already done things in the
wrong order - it would have been better to attempt that with Setup
Assistant during initial setup after installation was complete, by
telling it to migrate your user account from the internal drive.

As you've already created a new account, you are likely to have a
conflicting user ID, which will complicate things if you try to migrate
now. It is possible to work around this without restarting the entire
installation, but you need to avoid conflicting user IDs and account
names.

Start by finding out which user IDs and account names were being used on
the internal drive. Assuming the internal drive is called "Macintosh HD"
and the external drive has a different name, then this command in
Terminal will show all the necessary details:

ls -ln "/Volumes/Macintosh HD/Users"

The details of interest are the third column, which is the user ID
(should be numbers counting up from 501 if you had multiple accounts,
but might differ depending on your pattern of account creation) and the
name of the home folder for the account (which is the short account
name).

If you want to migrate an account with user ID 501, you will have a
conflicting account on the USB drive, since the first account created
during setup of a new OS X system always has user ID 501. You can
resolve that conflict as follows:

1. Note the highest user ID of accounts you want to migrate (501 if only
one).

2. In System Preferences > Accounts (or Users & Groups), create
additional standard acccounts until the number of accounts is one higher
than the last account number minus 500. For example, if you wanted to
migrate accounts with user ID 501 and 502, you will need a total of
three accounts (which will be 501, 502 and 503). Make sure the last
account has a name and short name which do NOT conflict with any of the
accounts to be migrated.

3. Promote the last account to admin privileges.

4. Log out and log in as the last account.

5. In System Preferences, delete the account that was created during
initial setup, and any intervening ones, leaving just the new admin
account.

6. Now run Migration Assistant to migrate user accounts to the new
drive.

You could also try migrating applications, but if you don't have many of
them it would be safer to install them from scratch. Network and system
settings and "other files" are probably safe to migrate.

Once migration has finished, try logging in as one of those users and
see if the account works. If all seems well, and you have copied
everything you need off the intenral drive, then you can clone the
entire external drive back to the internal one, e.g. using SuperDuper,
Carbon Copy Cloner, or the "Restore" feature in Disk Utility.

> Also for kicks for the future newer OS X versions, I tried to see if my
> App Store's downloaded newer Mac OS X installers:

None will work because all of them require running at least 10.6.6 to be
able to launch the installer. (Sierra won't run on that model, but for
reference its installer requires 10.7.5 or later.)

> El Capitan v10.11.5 = "not supported on this architecture"
> Yosemite v10.10.5 = "cannot use the application with this version of OS X"
> Mountain Lion v10.8.5 = "cannot use the application with this version of
> OS X"
> What the heck? Do I really need to get v10.6 first to upgrade or do a
> clean install?

For a 10.5.x system to upgrade to 10.7 or later, you must upgrade to
10.6 first (and then update to 10.6.8). If you don't have a 10.6 install
DVD, you can buy it from Apple's online store:

http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MC573Z/A/mac-os-x-106-snow-leopard

> Oh, and its trackpad and keyboard stopped responding before MBP's
> display went to black in Mac OS X v10.5.8. It happened during the dimmed
> screen after the upgrade and reboot. Its power button responded to
> brighten up the screen and asked me what to do (shut down, reboot,
> etc.). I connected a very old USB mouse, and I could move my mouse
> cursor again. Internal keyboard (don't have an external USB type -- only
> PS/2 type), nope!

If the trackpad and keyboard stopped working after you updated to
10.5.8, but an external mouse was working, that suggests the keyboard
and trackpad have a fault (timing relative to the screen dimming is
probably a coincidence as there is no connection between those
subsystems).

It is unlikely to be a software issue if it persisted after all
available updates were applied, and unlikely to be a general USB problem
(because the external USB drive is working, as is the USB mouse).

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

Ant

unread,
Feb 19, 2017, 6:34:54 PM2/19/17
to
On 2/19/2017 1:31 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article <b-WdnQN4gLaQkDfF...@earthlink.com>, Ant
> <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>
>>
>> Yay, I finally and sucessfully booted up the brand new Mac OS X v10.5.2
>> from the external USB HDD. Its required registration was annoying (no
>> cancel and skip options)! I just wanted to install and test! So, I
>> entered fake datas.
>
> there is no required registration for mac os.

Um, then how was I supposed to bypass this v10.5.2's registration
screen? There were no buttons to exit/cancel/delay. :/


>> Also for kicks for the future newer OS X versions, I tried to see if my
>> App Store's downloaded newer Mac OS X installers:
>> El Capitan v10.11.5 = "not supported on this architecture"
>> Yosemite v10.10.5 = "cannot use the application with this version of OS X"
>> Mountain Lion v10.8.5 = "cannot use the application with this version of
>> OS X"
>> What the heck? Do I really need to get v10.6 first to upgrade or do a
>> clean install?
>
> you need 10.6.6 or later for access to the app store to be able to
> download a later version of mac os.
>
> you can also use another mac to make a usb stick with a macos installer
> on it, which can then be used even if the target mac has an empty hard
> drive, and if it has 10.5, you probably will need to make it blank for
> the installer to not complain.

Yeah, I'm planning to do this with a 64 USB flash drive and
http://diskmakerx.com in a 13.3" 2012 MBP's Mac OS X v10.8.5/Mountain
Lion. I hope the app installer copies I have will work! Hopefully, it
will work for me to use in 2008 MBP. Frak the upgrades and start clean.
--
"I do not believe that the Great Society is the ordered, changeless and
sterile battalion of the ants. It is the excitement of becoming--always
becoming, trying, probing, falling, resting and trying again--but always
trying and always gaining. In each generation--with toil and tears--we
have had to earn our heritage again." --Lyndon B. Johnson

nospam

unread,
Feb 19, 2017, 6:36:10 PM2/19/17
to
In article <mbOdnW1IKe8EtjfF...@earthlink.com>, Ant
<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> >> Yay, I finally and sucessfully booted up the brand new Mac OS X v10.5.2
> >> from the external USB HDD. Its required registration was annoying (no
> >> cancel and skip options)! I just wanted to install and test! So, I
> >> entered fake datas.
> >
> > there is no required registration for mac os.
>
> Um, then how was I supposed to bypass this v10.5.2's registration
> screen? There were no buttons to exit/cancel/delay. :/

cmd-q

Ant

unread,
Feb 20, 2017, 4:17:11 AM2/20/17
to
Someone asked to run SMART test on the internal HDD. Here are the
results with an old SMARTreporter app (still failed long tests in the
same HDD spot):

smartctl 5.41 2011-04-06 r3314 [i386-apple-darwin9.8.0] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-11 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Hitachi Travelstar 5K250
Device Model: Hitachi HTS542520K9SA00
Serial Number: 080729BB2D10[deleted]
LU WWN Device Id: 5 000cca 532c8fe94
Firmware Version: BBDAC3GP
User Capacity: 200,049,647,616 bytes [200 GB]
Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: 8
ATA Standard is: ATA-8-ACS revision 3f
Local Time is: Mon Feb 20 01:08:22 2017 PST
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status: (0x00) Offline data collection activity
was never started.
Auto Offline Data Collection:
Disabled.
Self-test execution status: ( 121) The previous self-test completed
having
the read element of the test
failed.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection: ( 645) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities: (0x5b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
Auto Offline data collection
on/off support.
Suspend Offline collection upon new
command.
Offline surface scan supported.
Self-test supported.
No Conveyance Self-test supported.
Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
power-saving mode.
Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported.
General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 96) minutes.
SCT capabilities: (0x003d) SCT Status supported.
SCT Error Recovery Control
supported.
SCT Feature Control supported.
SCT Data Table supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE
UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000b 099 099 062 Pre-fail
Always - 131072
2 Throughput_Performance 0x0005 100 100 040 Pre-fail
Offline - 0
3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0007 234 234 033 Pre-fail
Always - 1
4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0012 095 095 000 Old_age
Always - 9139
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 005 Pre-fail
Always - 0
7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000b 100 100 067 Pre-fail
Always - 0
8 Seek_Time_Performance 0x0005 100 100 040 Pre-fail
Offline - 0
9 Power_On_Hours 0x0012 056 056 000 Old_age
Always - 19436
10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 100 060 Pre-fail
Always - 0
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 098 098 000 Old_age
Always - 4081
191 G-Sense_Error_Rate 0x000a 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 8591638708
193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 069 069 000 Old_age Always
- 318366
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0002 152 152 000 Old_age Always
- 36 (Min/Max 15/49)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x000a 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0022 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 1
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0008 100 100 000 Old_age
Offline - 0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x000a 200 200 000 Old_age Always
- 0
223 Load_Retry_Count 0x000a 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
ATA Error Count: 16 (device log contains only the most recent five errors)
CR = Command Register [HEX]
FR = Features Register [HEX]
SC = Sector Count Register [HEX]
SN = Sector Number Register [HEX]
CL = Cylinder Low Register [HEX]
CH = Cylinder High Register [HEX]
DH = Device/Head Register [HEX]
DC = Device Command Register [HEX]
ER = Error register [HEX]
ST = Status register [HEX]
Powered_Up_Time is measured from power on, and printed as
DDd+hh:mm:SS.sss where DD=days, hh=hours, mm=minutes,
SS=sec, and sss=millisec. It "wraps" after 49.710 days.

Error 16 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 5450 hours (227 days + 2 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was
active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 10 18 dc 0f 40 Error: UNC 16 sectors at LBA = 0x000fdc18 = 1039384

Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00 00:00:30.400 READ DMA EXT
25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00 00:00:26.300 READ DMA EXT
25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00 00:00:22.200 READ DMA EXT
25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00 00:00:18.100 READ DMA EXT
2f 00 01 10 00 00 00 00 00:00:18.000 READ LOG EXT

Error 15 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 5450 hours (227 days + 2 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was
active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 10 18 dc 0f 40 Error: UNC 16 sectors at LBA = 0x000fdc18 = 1039384

Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00 00:00:26.300 READ DMA EXT
25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00 00:00:22.200 READ DMA EXT
25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00 00:00:18.100 READ DMA EXT
2f 00 01 10 00 00 00 00 00:00:18.000 READ LOG EXT
60 10 c8 18 dc 0f 40 00 00:00:13.800 READ FPDMA QUEUED

Error 14 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 5450 hours (227 days + 2 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was
active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 10 18 dc 0f 40 Error: UNC 16 sectors at LBA = 0x000fdc18 = 1039384

Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00 00:00:22.200 READ DMA EXT
25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00 00:00:18.100 READ DMA EXT
2f 00 01 10 00 00 00 00 00:00:18.000 READ LOG EXT
60 10 c8 18 dc 0f 40 00 00:00:13.800 READ FPDMA QUEUED
60 10 c0 f2 31 0f 40 00 00:00:13.800 READ FPDMA QUEUED

Error 13 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 5450 hours (227 days + 2 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was
active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 10 18 dc 0f 40 Error: UNC 16 sectors at LBA = 0x000fdc18 = 1039384

Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
25 00 10 18 dc 0f 40 00 00:00:18.100 READ DMA EXT
2f 00 01 10 00 00 00 00 00:00:18.000 READ LOG EXT
60 10 c8 18 dc 0f 40 00 00:00:13.800 READ FPDMA QUEUED
60 10 c0 f2 31 0f 40 00 00:00:13.800 READ FPDMA QUEUED
61 10 b8 58 c2 0f 40 00 00:00:13.800 WRITE FPDMA QUEUED

Error 12 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 4750 hours (197 days + 22
hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was
active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 10 38 fa 06 40 Error: UNC 16 sectors at LBA = 0x0006fa38 = 457272

Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
25 00 10 38 fa 06 40 00 00:00:29.600 READ DMA EXT
25 00 10 38 fa 06 40 00 00:00:25.500 READ DMA EXT
25 00 10 38 fa 06 40 00 00:00:21.400 READ DMA EXT
25 00 10 38 fa 06 40 00 00:00:17.400 READ DMA EXT
2f 00 01 10 00 00 00 00 00:00:17.300 READ LOG EXT

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num Test_Description Status Remaining
LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error
# 1 Extended offline Completed: read failure 90% 19436
33621728
# 2 Short offline Completed without error 00% 19435
-
# 3 Extended offline Completed: read failure 90% 14811
33621728
# 4 Short offline Completed without error 00% 14811
-
# 5 Short offline Completed without error 00% 2408
-

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
1 0 0 Not_testing
2 0 0 Not_testing
3 0 0 Not_testing
4 0 0 Not_testing
5 0 0 Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.



On 2/18/2017 2:45 AM, Ant wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I have a broken 15" MacBook Pro (early 2008) with its updated Mac OS X
> v10.5.8/Mountain Lion. I tried booting up this old MBP with these boot
> ups' keys and without connected USB devices (mouse and external hub):
>
> 1. normal boot -- never reaches the user account screen. It stays stuck
> in Apple logo's loading screen with its spinning wait icon.
>
> 2. shift -- never reaches the user account screen. It stays stuck in
> Apple logo's loading screen with its spinning wait icon.
>
> 3. command+v (verbose) = saw the text mode with technical datas. Then,
> it loaded the light blue screen for about a second and then back to text
> black screen with a white block on the top left corner. Then back to
> light blue screen to the black text screen with the top left white block
> in a loop forever.
>
> 4. command+s (single-user mode) = got to its text bash prompt, but not
> sure what to do here to dig deeper and fix. Need experts' help if I need
> to use it. At least, this is usable.
>
> 5. command+r (recovery) = It stays stuck in Apple logo's loading screen
> with its spinning wait icon. No OS X Utilities like in newer mac OSes. I
> don't think Mac OS X v10.5.8 has this feature IIRC.
>
> 6. d (diagnostics) = Short test passed after about three minutes. It is
> now running a long test which will take about 1.5 hours. Isn't this just
> memory tests?
>
> 7. option-d (online diagnostics) = It stays stuck in Apple logo's
> loading screen with its spinning wait icon. I don't think it has that
> feature.
>
> 8. Option-Command-P-R (Reset NVRAM) = Heard a beep and saw bright screen
> and heard loud volume as resets, but it did not fix the boot up issue.
>
> I am trying to figure out if this is hardware or a software issue. :(
> Any other ideas to try? I don't see how Apcupsd-3.14.14 could break it
> that badly. Earlier, I downloaded and installed
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/apcupsd/files/osx-binaries%20-%20Stable/3.14.14/'s
> Apcupsd-3.14.14.dmg file into an old 15" MacBook Pro (2008) with its
> updated Leopard v10.5.8 since
> http://www.apcupsd.org/manual/manual.html#id37 says apcupsd supports Mac
> OS X v10.4.x and higher. However, I was unable to save auto-opened
> apcupsd.conf that I was required to edit due to lack of admin access
> even though I was using an admin account. So, I tried to edit
> /etc/apcupsd/apcupsd.conf in Terminal's with su and sudo commands but
> they said something about PAM. I said frak it and rebooted, but it won't
> boot up anymore. :(
>
> Thank you in advance. :)
--
"In a battle between elephants, the ants get squashed." --Thailand

David B.

unread,
Feb 20, 2017, 5:40:42 AM2/20/17
to
On 18/02/2017 15:57, Christian wrote:
> David B. <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204904
>
> Probably not - since (s)he never comes to the point where a GUI is
> loaded...

OK - one can but try! ;-)

> You could try to use "target mode" to access the drive in the MacBook
> from another computer - see
> <http://osxdaily.com/2010/04/07/how-to-boot-a-mac-in-target-disk-mode/>
> amd try to erase that disk completely before installing a new system on
> it.

That was an interesting link, Christian. Thank you.

I tried to print the page when using Safari on my iMac. The header and
footer information printed but the 'body' didn't print. Effectively just
blank pages. Grrr!

I then tried to print a 'daily killer suduku' - /that/ printed just
fine! http://www.dailykillersudoku.com

Puzzled, I opened Firefox and went to your link. All four pages printed
without problem. Hmmm!

Going back to Safari, no matter what I've tried so far, I can't get the
pages at your link to print the 'body' of the pages. I have cleared all
'history' but still no change.

Anything simple I may have missed?

David B.

Ant

unread,
Feb 20, 2017, 6:34:46 AM2/20/17
to
On 2/19/2017 3:34 PM, Ant wrote:

>>> Also for kicks for the future newer OS X versions, I tried to see if my
>>> App Store's downloaded newer Mac OS X installers:
>>> El Capitan v10.11.5 = "not supported on this architecture"
>>> Yosemite v10.10.5 = "cannot use the application with this version of
>>> OS X"
>>> Mountain Lion v10.8.5 = "cannot use the application with this version of
>>> OS X"
>>> What the heck? Do I really need to get v10.6 first to upgrade or do a
>>> clean install?
>>
>> you need 10.6.6 or later for access to the app store to be able to
>> download a later version of mac os.
>>
>> you can also use another mac to make a usb stick with a macos installer
>> on it, which can then be used even if the target mac has an empty hard
>> drive, and if it has 10.5, you probably will need to make it blank for
>> the installer to not complain.
>
> Yeah, I'm planning to do this with a 64 USB flash drive and
> http://diskmakerx.com in a 13.3" 2012 MBP's Mac OS X v10.8.5/Mountain
> Lion. I hope the app installer copies I have will work! Hopefully, it
> will work for me to use in 2008 MBP. Frak the upgrades and start clean.

I couldn't get DiskmakerX to use my copied El Capitan v10.11.5 app file
to make an USB flash drive, so I had to do it manuallly with
http://osxdaily.com/2015/09/30/create-os-x-el-capitan-boot-install-drive/
instructions (wow, way easier than the previous versions that I
remember). My first attempt failed since copying the installer failed
even after 30 minutes on a 13.3" MBP (2012). I had to start over and it
worked. Weird.

Anyways, I tested the drive out on the old 2008 MBP, and it booted up
fine. I did not install yet since I am too tired to do more and probably
will do it if I can't fix 10.5.8's bootup. I am going to assume I can
upgrade the old HDD's v10.5.8 to El Capitan this way with old datas
intact. If that fails, then I will wipe that drive and start clean.

To be continued...
--
"The work on ants has profoundly affected the way I think about humans."
--E. O. Wilson

Jolly Roger

unread,
Feb 20, 2017, 10:33:15 AM2/20/17
to
On 2017-02-20, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> Someone asked to run SMART test on the internal HDD. Here are the
> results with an old SMARTreporter app (still failed long tests in the
> same HDD spot):
>
> [snip]
That drive is obviously on its way out. I'd go ahead and replace it.

Jolly Roger

unread,
Feb 20, 2017, 10:36:20 AM2/20/17
to
Prints (to PDF) just fine for me with Safari 10.0.3 in macOS 10.11.6.
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