new iMac

[Michelle Steiner]

There's a new, lower-cost iMac; here's a comparison with the former
bottom-end iMac (which is still available as the middle iMac).

New Former
$1099 $1299

1.4GHz 2.7GHz
dual-core quad-core
i5 i5

500GB 1TB
hard drive hard drive

Intel HD Intel Iris Pro
Graphics 5000 Graphics

[Michelle Steiner]

In article <gratefuldead-C281...@newszilla.xs4all.nl>,
Steve <gratef...@xs4all.nl> wrote:

> Still way too expensive. My 2009 Mac Mini cost 499,- euro. The latest
> model 619,-, which is all you need. My $0.02

Add the cost of a monitor, keyboard and mouse or trackpad to that.

[Fred Moore]

A not very favorable review:

Apple�s new $1,099 iMac is a MacBook Air in a desktop�s body:
21.5-inch entry-level model saves you $200 but loses quite a bit of power.
<http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/06/apples-new-1099-imac-is-a-macbook-air-in-a-desktops-body/>

--
Just remember that optimism looks exactly like doing nothing.
--Wally, Dilbert 2010.7.17

[gtr]

Yeah, but you don't "need" that. Actually all you need is a crayon and
some cardboard--same thing!

[Michelle Steiner]

In article <180620141654003823%timst...@greenbee.net>, Tim Streater
<timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:

> In article <180620140831345423%mich...@michelle.org>, Michelle Steiner

> No, I've already got those. I just move them to the new Mini.

But a first-time buyer would not.

[Alan Browne]

^
|
+----- very GOOD monitor. Not some $99 bit
of Best Buy trash.

--
I was born a 1%er - I'm just more equal than the rest.

[Alan Browne]

A windows switcher would.

[Alan Browne]

On 2014.06.18, 11:38 , Fred Moore wrote:
> On 6/18/14, 10:33 a, Michelle Steiner wrote:
>> There's a new, lower-cost iMac; here's a comparison with the former
>> bottom-end iMac (which is still available as the middle iMac).
>>
>> New Former
>> $1099 $1299
>>
>> 1.4GHz 2.7GHz
>> dual-core quad-core
>> i5 i5
>>
>> 500GB 1TB
>> hard drive hard drive
>>
>> Intel HD Intel Iris Pro
>> Graphics 5000 Graphics
>
> A not very favorable review:
>

> Apple’s new $1,099 iMac is a MacBook Air in a desktop’s body:

> 21.5-inch entry-level model saves you $200 but loses quite a bit of power.
> <http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/06/apples-new-1099-imac-is-a-macbook-air-in-a-desktops-body/>

But it's .... a Mac!

The displays on Mac are very clear and sharp compared to most (not all)
other all-in-ones.

This thing would almost be acceptable if the "beast" in it were a Mac
Mini plug in module that could be changed out over time...

[Tim McNamara]

Wow, the specs are so inferior that it's not remotely worth the $200
savings.

[Paul Sture]

On 2014-06-18, Steve <gratef...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> In article <180620140733336542%mich...@michelle.org>,

> Still way too expensive. My 2009 Mac Mini cost 499,- euro. The latest
> model 619,-, which is all you need. My $0.02
>

> https://www.apple.com/nl/mac-mini/

The latest Mac mini has the Intel HD Graphics 4000 card. I don't know how
much of a performance gain the 5000 version quoted above brings.

I've just looked up the price in the Swiss Apple Store and the Mac mini
has come down 20 Swiss Francs since I last looked (now CHF 679 rather than 699).

It looks as though there might be a stock clearance on Mac minis at the
moment. Earlier this year one of my local discount places had a time limited
offer at CHF 599. When they did that again at Easter I bit.

--
You can't look at a glass as half full or half empty if it's overflowing.

[Paul Sture]

The Mac mini is still cheaper as long as you go for a third party monitor.
Let's not forget that the original idea of the Mac mini was that you could
use existing monitor, keyboard and mouse, and that route still works.

The 1.4GHz processor speed on new the entry level iMac seems a hefty drop in
performance from the other models, but it depends what "Turbo Boost up
to 2.7GHz" means in practice. That model also has *shared* rather than
dedicated L3 cache and the RAM is "LPDDR3 onboard memory", whatever those
means for performance.

[Paul Sture]

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.mac.system.]

But a first time *Mac* buyer might.

The only snag I see is that those folks looking to upgrade Windows XP vintage
systems might have VGA style plugs on their monitors, and a suitable
converter doesn't come in the Mac mini box.

[Your Name]

In article <l61a7b-...@news.chingola.ch>, Paul Sture

<nos...@sture.ch> wrote:
> On 2014-06-18, Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> > In article <gratefuldead-C281...@newszilla.xs4all.nl>,
> > Steve <gratef...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >
> >> Still way too expensive. My 2009 Mac Mini cost 499,- euro. The latest
> >> model 619,-, which is all you need. My $0.02
> >
> > Add the cost of a monitor, keyboard and mouse or trackpad to that.
>
> The Mac mini is still cheaper as long as you go for a third party monitor.

<snip>

Fixed it for you:

The Mac mini is still cheaper as long as you go for

a (usually) cheap 'n' nasty, low quality third party
monitor, keyboard, mouse, webcam, ...

;-)

> Let's not forget that the original idea of the Mac mini was that
> you could use existing monitor, keyboard and mouse, and that route
> still works.

Of course it does, if you already have one, but the point was that the
price of the iMac includes the extra hardware. It's incredibly silly to
say the iMac is more expensive than the Mac Mini, and just ignore the
fact that the iMac includes extra hardware, less cabling mess (although
only slightly if using wireless keyboard and mouse), etc. It's the same
sort of silliness as the anti-Apple nutters comparing an iMac to a
cheap no-name Windoze box.

[Your Name]

In article <slrnlq4i4k....@sugaree.local>, Tim McNamara

<tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> Wow, the specs are so inferior that it's not remotely worth the $200
> savings.

Depends entirely on your needs. For example, a $200 saving per computer
for a school means they could basically get a "free" computer for
almost every five they buy.

[David Empson]

Paul Sture <nos...@sture.ch> wrote:

> On 2014-06-18, Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> > In article <gratefuldead-C281...@newszilla.xs4all.nl>,
> > Steve <gratef...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >
> >> Still way too expensive. My 2009 Mac Mini cost 499,- euro. The latest
> >> model 619,-, which is all you need. My $0.02
> >
> > Add the cost of a monitor, keyboard and mouse or trackpad to that.
>
> The Mac mini is still cheaper as long as you go for a third party monitor.
> Let's not forget that the original idea of the Mac mini was that you could
> use existing monitor, keyboard and mouse, and that route still works.
>
> The 1.4GHz processor speed on new the entry level iMac seems a hefty drop in
> performance from the other models, but it depends what "Turbo Boost up
> to 2.7GHz" means in practice.

The entry level iMac is using the same processor as the default one in
the Early 2014 MacBook Air: Intel Core i5-4260U.

Because the iMac body has more substantial heat management (designed for
higher power processors), I expect this means the entry level iMac will
be able to operate its processor in "turbo boost" mode much longer than
can be achieved in the MacBook Air, possibly all of the time. For this
processor, that means it should be running at 2.7 GHz with one core
active, or 2.4 GHz with both cores active.

Geekbench scores put this iMac model at 97% of the performance of the
US$1299 iMac for single core tasks, but only 59% for multi-core (mostly
due to having two instead of four cores).

That suggests this entry level iMac is fine for simple uses (e.g. light
business use, or a home user who mostly does web browsing and email),
but not for more advanced applications which would benefit significantly
from having more CPU cores or a better GPU.

It should outperform an entry level Late 2009 iMac, and is probably
similar to an entry level Mid 2010 iMac, but has technical advantages
over both due to newer hardware features such as Thunderbolt, USB 3.0,
Bluetooth 4.0 and 802.11ac.

Geekbench has it just beating the 3.4 GHz 27" Mid 2011 iMac for
single-core tasks, but slower than the entry level 2.5 GHz 21.5" Mid
2011 iMac for multi-core (due to 2 vs 4 cores).

> That model also has *shared* rather than dedicated L3 cache

That will be worse for two cores running different code, but a dual core
workload which is sharing the same code won't be as badly affected
(assuming the code fits within the smaller L3 cache).

> and the RAM is "LPDDR3 onboard memory", whatever those means for
> performance.

Again, same as the MacBook Air. LPDDR3 should be 16 MT/s, which is the
same as DDR3. This is really just a voltage and mounting difference: the
RAM is soldered onto the logic board for the entry level iMac and is
fixed at 8 GB (no BTO option for more RAM, no subsequent upgrade
possible).

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[David Empson]

The price drop on the Mac Mini (and previously existing iMac models, and
the Apple TV) is only known to be occurring in Europe (including the
UK). It is just an exchange rate adjustment across a class of related
models, not evidence of clearing out old models.

For the recent MacBook Air update, New Zealand had a more significant
price drop on MacBook Pro models at the same time. Again, this was just
an exchange rate correction. NZ didn't get any changed prices for the
iMac, Mac Mini or Apple TV this time, and neither did the US.

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[Paul Sture]

Agreed that the Apple Store price change is an exchange rate adjustment, but
this year is the first time I have seen dealers offering discounts of more
than 10 or 20 bucks (and some of those would charge for delivery where
Apple does not, so you would be back to square one).

The discounter I bought from has only started selling Apple kit within the
last year pr 18 months, and another largish one became an Apple distributor
a couple of months ago. The second of those discounters definitely has
corporate customers.

This appears to me to be a shift in Apple's distribution policy: neither of
the two distributors have retail outlets kitted out like Apple dealers; they
don't really need them since their operations are mainly mail order based.

> For the recent MacBook Air update, New Zealand had a more significant
> price drop on MacBook Pro models at the same time. Again, this was just
> an exchange rate correction. NZ didn't get any changed prices for the
> iMac, Mac Mini or Apple TV this time, and neither did the US.


--

[Mr. Strat]

In article <180620140733336542%mich...@michelle.org>, Michelle Steiner
<mich...@michelle.org> wrote:

New and crippled

[Michelle Steiner]

In article <190620140622168896%mrs...@nospam.gmail.com>, Mr. Strat

Furthermore, the RAM is soldered.

[nospam]

In article <190620140712133788%mich...@michelle.org>, Michelle Steiner

<mich...@michelle.org> wrote:

> > New and crippled
>
> Furthermore, the RAM is soldered.

so are the other parts.

most people don't upgrade their ram (or anything else) and certainly
not in the segment that imac is targeting.

[JF Mezei]

On 14-06-19 00:29, David Empson wrote:

> higher power processors), I expect this means the entry level iMac will
> be able to operate its processor in "turbo boost" mode much longer than
> can be achieved in the MacBook Air, possibly all of the time.

Alas, when people make decisions by looking at specs, they will see the
1.6ghz CPU speed, compare it with wintel boxes which will get you higher
clock rates and see the imac has a very slow and expensive box.

Same with memory and disk.

[David Empson]

Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <190620140712133788%mich...@michelle.org>

> I wonder if this machine indicates there will not be a refresh of the
> other iMacs any time soon.

An interesting point on that: rumour sites leaked that there was
evidence in the first developer seed of 10.9.4 (and in Yosemite) of new
iMac model identifiers - I remember mention of three new identifiers
which started with "iMac15".

The current generation of iMacs has model identifiers "iMac14,1"
(21.5-inch) and "iMac14,2" (27-inch). The new entry level model is
"iMac14,4". (Where did model 3 go?)

The new model identifiers imply that Apple is at least testing or
preparing for a new generation of iMacs, and the changes will be more
than just a CPU speed bump in the same Haswell family (as that can be
done without changing the model identifier).

It doesn't tell us very much about what feature changes they might have.
A model identifier change could be required by something as minor as
updating the chipset to Intel series 9 (which supports Haswell and
Broadwell). If these iMacs are released this year and continue to use
desktop-class processors, they would still be Haswell (Broadwell desktop
processors aren't likely to be available until next year). If Apple
switched to using laptop-class processors (like the MacBook Pros) they
might be available before the end of the year with Broadwell.

A more reasonable set of changes (all parts of which should already be
available) would be slightly faster Haswell desktop processors, GPU
updates in some models, the Intel 9 series chipset, and Thunderbolt 2.

Then there are wishes like a retina display. Assuming Apple can get the
display panels, that should already be feasible for a 21.5" iMac
(3840x2160, which is a standard 4K resolution). The 27" iMac is more of
a challenge, as 5120x2880 is more pixels than can be pushed through
DisplayPort 1.2. DisplayPort 1.3 can cope but I don't know how far it is
away from being available, plus new GPUs might be needed. (External
interfaces will still be a problem, as Thunderbolt 2 isn't fast enough
to carry DisplayPort 1.3.)

The Yosemite leak mentioned evidence of resolution scaling support for
iMacs, which implies a retina display.

This leads me to the theory that Apple is intending to release or at
least preview iMacs with retina displays, which will probably require
Yosemite, so an announcement at the Yosemite release event would be the
sensible time. Perhaps October?

If the non-retina models are also updated around that time they will
probably be a minor speed bump from the current models along the lines I
suggested above. I expect the new entry-level model would stay as it is.

> I need to buy an iMac in the next few months and I was sort of thinking
> there might be a refresh/speed bump in August, but now I am thinking
> that's not going to happen.

The presence of the new model identifiers in the 10.9.4 developer seed
is a curious point. I took that as a sign the new models might be
relased as soon as August (estimated point 10.9.4 will be ready).

Apple usually does an internal-only build to add support for new models,
which developers never get to see, so the presence of new iMac model
identifiers in the 10.9.4 developer seed may have been a mistake.

It would be odd timing to release a new entry level model now and update
the other models as soon as August, so I'm now thinking the other models
won't get updated until later in the year - September or October is
possible, and would be about a year after the current models were
introduced.

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[David Empson]

Paul Sture <nos...@sture.ch> wrote:

> On 2014-06-19, David Empson <dem...@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> > Paul Sture <nos...@sture.ch> wrote:
> >
> >> It looks as though there might be a stock clearance on Mac minis at the
> >> moment. Earlier this year one of my local discount places had a time
> >> limited offer at CHF 599. When they did that again at Easter I bit.
> >
> > The price drop on the Mac Mini (and previously existing iMac models, and
> > the Apple TV) is only known to be occurring in Europe (including the
> > UK). It is just an exchange rate adjustment across a class of related
> > models, not evidence of clearing out old models.
>
> Agreed that the Apple Store price change is an exchange rate adjustment, but
> this year is the first time I have seen dealers offering discounts of more
> than 10 or 20 bucks (and some of those would charge for delivery where
> Apple does not, so you would be back to square one).
>
> The discounter I bought from has only started selling Apple kit within the
> last year pr 18 months, and another largish one became an Apple distributor
> a couple of months ago. The second of those discounters definitely has
> corporate customers.
>
> This appears to me to be a shift in Apple's distribution policy: neither of
> the two distributors have retail outlets kitted out like Apple dealers; they
> don't really need them since their operations are mainly mail order based.

Actually, now that I think about it, there has been a changed pattern
this year in New Zealand with frequent "10% off" weekend sales on Macs
from many Apple resellers (there are no Apple Stores in New Zealand, so
I don't have them as a point of comparison).

I haven't noticed any particular timing relative to the introduction of
model updates - they've been almost continuous and have been going on
for months, so it doesn't really fit with stock clearance prior to new
models.

In previous years there might have been a discount like that perhaps
every two or three months, from one retailer at a time.

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[Your Name]

In article <1lnja94.ov5kj8n2puh0N%dem...@actrix.gen.nz>, David Empson

Dick Smith and JB Hi-Fi are the main two which quite often have 10% off
sales of various models or all models for no apparent reason, but most
usually it is in the couple of months leading up to a refresh / update.
Although you have to be careful - there was a recent sale which was
actually still trying to sell off the previous "end of life" models.

They may have been "told off" by Apple for doing that with specific
models, so now discount others as well to try and hide the up-coming
refresh.

The new iMac could explain the recent sales, especially if the other
iMac models were going to be speed-bumped and Apple has decided to hold
off for a bit longer.

[David Empson]

Update: today the NZ Apple Store is showing a reduced price for the Mac
Mini, previous iMac models, Mac Pro and Apple TV. The price drops are
around 8% to 11%, with some variations to meet standard price points.

It looks like I was seeing an out of date cached copy of the prices
yesterday, or Apple delayed updating the prices on the NZ store for some
reason.

I haven't check other countries, but the US prices are the same as
before, so this is just an exchange rate correction for each country
outside the US. The NZ$ is worth more US$ than it was last September
when the iMacs were introduced.

Dick Smith has a "10% off Macs" sale until the end of the month (longer
than the recent weekend specials). Desktop Macs are 10% off Apple's
previous price (so generally slightly cheaper than Apple's current
price); notebook Macs are also 10% off Apple's current price.

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[Your Name]

In article <1lnk3l8.9whcqa1xxa6eoN%dem...@actrix.gen.nz>, David Empson
<dem...@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
>
<snip>

>
> Dick Smith has a "10% off Macs" sale until the end of the month (longer
> than the recent weekend specials). Desktop Macs are 10% off Apple's
> previous price (so generally slightly cheaper than Apple's current
> price); notebook Macs are also 10% off Apple's current price.

You can take that Dick Smith price to The Good Guys (I think it is) and
they've got a guarantee to beat it. Most of the other chain stores will
price-match if you want to buy from a particular chaing to get Flybuys
bonus points or something. :-)

The problem is that these discount sales are only available for the
stock models. If you want any customised options, then you won't get
the discount - so getting a fully specc'ed build-to-order iMac at 10%
off is not possible. :-(

The Good Guys also give you a discount at any time off their sticker
price if you are NOT using their finance options (i.e. pay by cash,
credit card, cheque, etc.). I haven't checked, but PB Tech may also
have a discounted price if paying by cash (but not credit card).

[Alan Browne]

On 2014.06.18, 10:33 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> There's a new, lower-cost iMac; here's a comparison with the former
> bottom-end iMac (which is still available as the middle iMac).
>
> New Former
> $1099 $1299
>
> 1.4GHz 2.7GHz
> dual-core quad-core
> i5 i5
>
> 500GB 1TB
> hard drive hard drive
>
> Intel HD Intel Iris Pro
> Graphics 5000 Graphics

I believe, from the MBA that I just got, that the 1.4 Dual Core in this
new iMac is hyper threaded - so the performance will be a bit better
than one would assume from the clocks. Generally, HT delivers about 30%
more performance than a non HT core.

But still ... for $200 ...

[JF Mezei]

One area where the new iMac may find some market is large deployments as
smart terminals.

Porter Airlines for instance uses iMacs as check in terminals for their
agents at its own airport. You don't need fancy computers for that and
rthe low end iMac would be fine. (and probably as the iMacs Porter
provides in its lounge for internet access).

There people care less about system performance than they do about
software reliability and software maintenance (where OS-X has an edge
over Windows).

[Alan Browne]

Thin clients would probably be even better.

[Walter Bushell]

In article <slrnlq3qnd....@amelia.local>,
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> Don't just *do* something: *sit* there!

As Mr. Siddhartha said.

--
Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greed. Me.

[Walter Bushell]

In article <15ydnVeebZG28DjO...@giganews.com>,

Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2014.06.18, 10:33 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> > There's a new, lower-cost iMac; here's a comparison with the former
> > bottom-end iMac (which is still available as the middle iMac).
> >
> > New Former
> > $1099 $1299
> >
> > 1.4GHz 2.7GHz
> > dual-core quad-core
> > i5 i5
> >
> > 500GB 1TB
> > hard drive hard drive
> >

>

> I believe, from the MBA that I just got, that the 1.4 Dual Core in this
> new iMac is hyper threaded - so the performance will be a bit better
> than one would assume from the clocks. Generally, HT delivers about 30%
> more performance than a non HT core.
>
> But still ... for $200 ...

Priced so _people_ won't buy it very often, but made so it can be
discounted to schools. Apple got flack in the past for not selling the
educational models to the public. Zo put the machine out at an
unattractive price. The problem here is avoiding bait and switch
prosecution.

[Your Name]

In article <15ydnVeebZG28DjO...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2014.06.18, 10:33 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> > There's a new, lower-cost iMac; here's a comparison with the former
> > bottom-end iMac (which is still available as the middle iMac).
> >
> > New Former
> > $1099 $1299
> >
> > 1.4GHz 2.7GHz
> > dual-core quad-core
> > i5 i5
> >
> > 500GB 1TB
> > hard drive hard drive
> >
>
> I believe, from the MBA that I just got, that the 1.4 Dual Core in this
> new iMac is hyper threaded - so the performance will be a bit better
> than one would assume from the clocks. Generally, HT delivers about 30%
> more performance than a non HT core.
>
> But still ... for $200 ...

Macworld UK has these two articles ...

Why not to buy the �ｿｽ899 iMac
----------------------------
5 reasons why you shouldn't buy the new budget iMac.

Here are five reasons not to buy the low-cost iMac,
but be sure to read our five reasons why it might
actually be the best Mac for your needs.

- Not the cheapest iMac
It's not cheap, it's not the cheapest Mac, an