G3 AV/graphics card question
boneZone
Can someone tell me why Apple doesn't sell the G3 with both the AV
Personality card AND the 128-bit graphics card? I know that one can't
cancel out the other, so what's the deal? I realize I can get a config
with one of the cards and then get the other one third party, but I was
just wondering if they can't work together for some reason.
Thanks for any info...
Mark
bonzo
One does "cancel" the other so to speak.
ALL of Apples "AV" Macs throughout the years (from the original AV
Quadras, to the latest G3s) have integrated the AV functions with the
onboard video. If you are not using the onboard video, the AV functions
are crippled. You often see someone posting a message who has an AV Mac,
and has installed a 3rd party video card (for better performance) and is
asking why the video digitizer has not gotten all choppy and stuttery.
As an example, I have had several AV Macs, the latest being a 8600. In
this 8600, I also have a Twin Turbo video card. The Twin Turbo runs my
primary monitor, a 21 inch Supermac, and I have a 14 inch monitor
connected to the 8600s onboard video. If I open the Apple Video player on
my 14 inch monitor, the video plays fine. If I drag its window over to the
21 inch monitor (driven by the twin turbo card) the video imediatly
becomes jerky and stuttery. (plays at about 5 frames per second I would
estimate)
This happens because the AV overlay functions are having to route the
Video stream over the PCI bus to the other video card, something they are
not designed to do effectivly.
So, anyone wanting to use ANY AV macs functions, must be connected to the
onboard video port.
The funny thing is, I also have a MiroMotion card in my 8600 (the AV of
the 8600--or ANY AV Mac doesnt cut it for video work if your target is to
output to tape) and the overlay of the Miro card only works WITH a PCI
video card, NOT with the onboard video... the exact opposite. BUT, as a
side note, it worked fine with the ATI onboard video in the G3 desktop I
had for a while, so there must be something different in how Apple
implemented that design.
It just depends on how the system was designed.
In your case, you COULD get the AV configuration, and add a 128 bit
graphics card, but in order for the AV to function properly, you would
have to have a second monitor connected to the onboard video as well, like
I do.
One last comment. If you are looking to the AV card for editing videotape,
forget it. It just wont cut it, no matter how hard you work at it, or what
you do. If your target is output to tape, you need a hardware MJPG capable
card. If your target is 320x240 or smaller quicktime movies for CD-rom,
multimedia, or web use, the Apple AVs will work fine.
bonzo
> Can someone tell me why Apple doesn't sell the G3 with both the AV
> Personality card AND the 128-bit graphics card? I know that one can't
> cancel out the other, so what's the deal? I realize I can get a config
> with one of the cards and then get the other one third party, but I was
> just wondering if they can't work together for some reason.
>
> Thanks for any info...
> Mark
Mark, just as I posted my reply, I noticed a typo that could be confusing,
the line that reads:
You often see someone posting a message who has an AV Mac, and has
installed a 3rd party video card (for better performance) and is asking
why the video digitizer has **not** gotten all choppy and stuttery.
should read:
You often see someone posting a message who has an AV Mac, and has
installed a 3rd party video card (for better performance) and is asking
why the video digitizer **has** gotten all choppy and stuttery.
Neil Poese
>
>One last comment. If you are looking to the AV card for editing videotape,
>forget it. It just wont cut it, no matter how hard you work at it, or what
>you do. If your target is output to tape, you need a hardware MJPG capable
>card. If your target is 320x240 or smaller quicktime movies for CD-rom,
>multimedia, or web use, the Apple AVs will work fine.
I'm confused, Apple claims that G3 video out if full frame full
motion. I don't need any better than VHS res, so wouldn't the onboard
AV work OK?
Thanks,
Neil Poese
Kelly Erin O'Brien
In article <bonzo-12069...@1-73.dialup.inconnect.com>,
bo...@inconnect.com (bonzo) wrote:
> In article <356F0C...@earthlink.net>, bone...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
> > Can someone tell me why Apple doesn't sell the G3 with both the AV
> > Personality card AND the 128-bit graphics card? I know that one can't
> > cancel out the other, so what's the deal? I realize I can get a config
> > with one of the cards and then get the other one third party, but I was
> > just wondering if they can't work together for some reason.
> >
> > Thanks for any info...
> > Mark
>
>
> One does "cancel" the other so to speak.
>
> ALL of Apples "AV" Macs throughout the years (from the original AV
> Quadras, to the latest G3s) have integrated the AV functions with the
> onboard video. If you are not using the onboard video, the AV functions
> are crippled. You often see someone posting a message who has an AV Mac,
> and has installed a 3rd party video card (for better performance) and is
> asking why the video digitizer has not gotten all choppy and stuttery.
> One last comment. If you are looking to the AV card for editing videotape,
> forget it. It just wont cut it, no matter how hard you work at it, or what
> you do. If your target is output to tape, you need a hardware MJPG capable
> card. If your target is 320x240 or smaller quicktime movies for CD-rom,
> multimedia, or web use, the Apple AVs will work fine.
Say, Gang... I'm interested in doing video editing with output to tape.
I'm looking at a G3 setup for my existing 7500 180 604e. Can anyone give
me advice on the hot setup? Is this the right basic machine to go with
(I've got plenty o' HD space, by the way)?
--
Kelly Erin O'Brien, R.E.A.
Envirodata
1209 Villa Street
Mtn. View, CA 94041-1123
Phone: (650) 533-1010, Fax: (650) 843-3815
Jerry Stratton
In article <35811998....@cnews.newsguy.com>, npo...@fone.net (Neil
Poese) wrote:
>>
>>One last comment. If you are looking to the AV card for editing videotape,
>>forget it. It just wont cut it, no matter how hard you work at it, or what
>>you do. If your target is output to tape, you need a hardware MJPG capable
>>card. If your target is 320x240 or smaller quicktime movies for CD-rom,
>>multimedia, or web use, the Apple AVs will work fine.
>
>I'm confused, Apple claims that G3 video out if full frame full
>motion. I don't need any better than VHS res, so wouldn't the onboard
>AV work OK?
I don't think I've ever seen Apple claim that the built-in AV personality
card is full-size full-motion. What they claim on their web site is that
it can *input* at 320x240 at "up to" 30 frames per second.
I have no idea what the *output* is. But unless you're creating everything
on the computer, the input rate is important, because you have to get the
video from somewhere.
I haven't had a chance to try it out yet personally--just bought the
computer, will have to wait a few months to afford the video camera :*)
But I did do some input with a really old VHS camera on a 266 MHz
minitower and it worked great--for web quality quicktime movies.
Jerry
je...@hoboes.com
http://www.hoboes.com/jerry/ e-mail he...@hoboes.com
What Your Children Are Doing: http://www.hoboes.com/html/NetLife/Children/
Neil Poese
Hmm, last time I talked to Apple sales, they verified that the
All-in-One, as well as the AV G3s are all full frame full motion.
I followed-up because the Apple web site on the day of the All-In-One
announcement showed 25 fps. I asked to speak to a tech and he
confirmed that the 30 fps was accurate with the built-in board.
FWIW
Neil Poese