Copying OS 9 CD-ROMs using Toast (OS X)?
DaveC
iMac. The copy process seemed pretty straightforward, but the duplicate, when
inserted into the iMac it was not recognized ("Format or Eject?").
Then it occurred to me that when burning the disc maybe Toast is using a
media format for OS X ("extended"?) which is not readable by OS 9 equipment.
I looked all over Toast but cannot find any formatting details.
I was using Toast's "Disc Copy" feature which, by nature, does this
automatically, and options are minimized so it's no surprise to see no
details.
So the question arises: does the Disc Copy feature copy sectors and therefore
is not concerned with disc format? Or is format something that needs to be
addressed and I'm just not finding it in Toast? Or does Toast not "do" OS 9
discs?
What am I missing?
If someone has a simpler method to duplicate OS 9 bootable CD-ROMs using a
modern Intel Mac, please let me know! :-)
Thanks,
Dave
David Empson
> I'm using Toast 10 (under Leopard) to copy a CD-ROM for an old OS 9 CRT-type
> iMac. The copy process seemed pretty straightforward, but the duplicate, when
> inserted into the iMac it was not recognized ("Format or Eject?").
>
> Then it occurred to me that when burning the disc maybe Toast is using a
> media format for OS X ("extended"?) which is not readable by OS 9 equipment.
The Mac OS Extended file system was introduced in Mac OS 8.1, so Mac OS
9 is fine with it. Mac OS X implemented many more features but the
underlying file system is the same.
> I looked all over Toast but cannot find any formatting details.
>
> I was using Toast's "Disc Copy" feature which, by nature, does this
> automatically, and options are minimized so it's no surprise to see no
> details.
>
> So the question arises: does the Disc Copy feature copy sectors and therefore
> is not concerned with disc format?
Correct. It should give a sector level copy of the CD.
> Or is format something that needs to be addressed and I'm just not finding
> it in Toast? Or does Toast not "do" OS 9 discs?
There is nothing "special" about a Mac OS 9 boot CD that would make it
difficult to copy using a sector-level copy.
> What am I missing?
The most likely explanation is that the old iMac's CD-ROM drive doesn't
like the particular blank CD media you used, or you might need to tell
Toast to burn at a slower speed so that an older drive can read it
reliably.
I've encountered older CD-ROM drives that used to be OK, but now have
trouble reading _any_ recordable media, while still being OK with
pressed media. Something like dirt on the lens, perhaps?
--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz
isw
<0001HW.C97DBE8C...@news.eternal-september.org>,
DaveC <inv...@invalid.net> wrote:
I don't recall the details (it's been a long time) but I'm pretty sure
you can't just duplicate a MacOS (classic) disc and have it bootable.
AFAIR there's some "extra" stuff that needs to be on the disc, but it's
not located where a "normal" copy operation can see it.
Google around for info on creating bootable discs for classic, and you
can probably find out the recipe.
Isaac
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
> I've encountered older CD-ROM drives that used to be OK, but now have
> trouble reading _any_ recordable media, while still being OK with
> pressed media. Something like dirt on the lens, perhaps?
I've had a lot of discussions with people who fix CDROM drives for a living
about this.
I have fixed many CDROM and DVD drives over the years with a simple brush
type lens cleaning disk. This is a CD with a little brush glued to it.
My secret is where I live, 3,000 feet up in the desert. The air is always dry,
even in the winter when it is "wet" (comparatively), there is a constant wind
and lots of dust.
So things get covered in dust, including CD/DVD drive lenses. The brush type
disks remove the dust. Note that once you TOUCH the brush, you get oil on
it and it no longer works properly.
The other people I have discussed this with live in moister or more poluted
environments, and get a different kind of dust or hydrocarbon "goo" on the
lens. This can only be removed, if at all, by opening the drive and
"washing" it with 90%-95% alcohol. If you can get it, ammonia based window
cleaners will do it too.
When I say washing, I mean to moisten the end of a Q-tip or similar swab,
and gently use it to wipe the surface of the lens. This may clean the
lens, unglue the lens, leave a white residue on the lens, dissolve the
plastic, or re-arrange but not remove the dirt and goo. So it while it
is possible to repair a drive this way, it is also possible (and likely)
to ruin it.
As for copying disks, an entire disk copy will be bootable, assuming it
can be read on the drive. A volume copy will not. An entire disk copy
will copy the partition tables, boot images, disk drivers, etc if present,
will a volume copy will only copy the visible files.
If you search the web for the appropriate way of copying an OSX bootable
disk and producing a bootable result, the same procedure will work for
OS9 disks.
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.
Wayne C. Morris
> I'm using Toast 10 (under Leopard) to copy a CD-ROM for an old OS 9 CRT-type
> iMac. The copy process seemed pretty straightforward, but the duplicate, when
> inserted into the iMac it was not recognized ("Format or Eject?").
>
> Then it occurred to me that when burning the disc maybe Toast is using a
> media format for OS X ("extended"?) which is not readable by OS 9 equipment.
>
> I looked all over Toast but cannot find any formatting details.
>
> I was using Toast's "Disc Copy" feature which, by nature, does this
> automatically, and options are minimized so it's no surprise to see no
> details.
That should make a proper bootable copy with the same format as the original.
Does the iMac have a CD-R drive or just a CD-ROM? A lot of old CD-ROM drives
can't read CD-R discs. If your iMac has music to play music CDs, try copying a
music CD and see if the iMac can play it. If it can't, try different brands of
CD-R blanks, you might find one that works.
nospam
<wayne.morris-885B...@mx01.eternal-september.org>, Wayne
C. Morris <wayne....@this.is.invalid> wrote:
> Does the iMac have a CD-R drive or just a CD-ROM? A lot of old CD-ROM drives
> can't read CD-R discs.
only *really* old ones. any cd rom drive made since the mid 1990s when
cd burning began to be popular can read cdr discs. certainly, any imac
can, even the first crt imac in 1998.
> If your iMac has music to play music CDs, try copying
> a music CD and see if the iMac can play it. If it can't, try different brands
> of CD-R blanks, you might find one that works.
a different manufacturer (not brand, since it could still be the same
manufacturer) might help, or it might be that the drive in the old imac
is no longer functioning properly. it is over 10 years old, after all.
DaveC
>> drives
>> can't read CD-R discs.
>
> only *really* old ones. any cd rom drive made since the mid 1990s when
> cd burning began to be popular can read cdr discs. certainly, any imac
> can, even the first crt imac in 1998.
I'll start looking around...
> a different manufacturer (not brand, since it could still be the same
> manufacturer) might help, or it might be that the drive in the old imac
> is no longer functioning properly. it is over 10 years old, after all.
The CD-ROM drive reads pressed CDs just fine. It's the recordable (not
re-writeable) discs it objects to.
Dave
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
> The CD-ROM drive reads pressed CDs just fine. It's the recordable (not
> re-writeable) discs it objects to.
I've had the best results with TEAC blanks, and the worst with Verbatim.
Because I can buy decent DVD blanks cheaper than TEAC CD blanks, and
have much better luck and faster speeds reading them, I burn as many CD
images as I can on DVDs. Obviously you need DVD drive to read them.
Neill Massello
> The CD-ROM drive reads pressed CDs just fine. It's the recordable (not
> re-writeable) discs it objects to.
Do you mean that it won't read _any_ recordable disc, even a burned
audio CD?
nospam
Mendelson <g...@mendelson.com> wrote:
> I've had the best results with TEAC blanks, and the worst with Verbatim.
exactly the opposite for me. verbatim blues, aka data life (not value
life) are extremely reliable. teac buys from multiple manufacturers so
it's anyone's guess what you get.
nospam
<0001HW.C97EB935...@news.eternal-september.org>, DaveC
<inv...@invalid.net> wrote:
> > a different manufacturer (not brand, since it could still be the same
> > manufacturer) might help, or it might be that the drive in the old imac
> > is no longer functioning properly. it is over 10 years old, after all.
>
> The CD-ROM drive reads pressed CDs just fine. It's the recordable (not
> re-writeable) discs it objects to.
try different manufacturers and formulations. the easiest is to get
gold, green and blue discs. most stuff on the shelf is made in taiwan
these days, but if you find a made in japan, grab it.
would these discs happen to be rewritable cd-rw discs, not cd-r? those
have a lower reflectivity and some older cdrom drives can't read them,
even as recent as the early 2000s (definitely the late 90s). an
original crt imac could easily not have a multi-read drive.
Erik Richard Sørensen
David Empson wrote:
> DaveC <inv...@invalid.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm using Toast 10 (under Leopard) to copy a CD-ROM for an old OS 9 CRT-type
>> iMac. The copy process seemed pretty straightforward, but the duplicate, when
>> inserted into the iMac it was not recognized ("Format or Eject?").
>>
>> Then it occurred to me that when burning the disc maybe Toast is using a
>> media format for OS X ("extended"?) which is not readable by OS 9 equipment.
>
> The Mac OS Extended file system was introduced in Mac OS 8.1, so Mac OS
> 9 is fine with it. Mac OS X implemented many more features but the
> underlying file system is the same.
>
>> I looked all over Toast but cannot find any formatting details.
>>
>> I was using Toast's "Disc Copy" feature which, by nature, does this
>> automatically, and options are minimized so it's no surprise to see no
>> details.
>>
>> So the question arises: does the Disc Copy feature copy sectors and therefore
>> is not concerned with disc format?
>
> Correct. It should give a sector level copy of the CD.
Toast 10 does copy sector by sector.
>> Or is format something that needs to be addressed and I'm just not finding
>> it in Toast? Or does Toast not "do" OS 9 discs?
>
> There is nothing "special" about a Mac OS 9 boot CD that would make it
> difficult to copy using a sector-level copy.
Yes, there is a problem here. Any Toast since ver 6.x cannot make a
bootable OS 9.x CD by using the copy function. The last version of Toast
that supported that was the ver. 5.2.3 - both OS 9.x and OS X ver..
Any OS 7.x, 8.x and 9.x CD contain a hidden boot entry file, and Toast
6.x and up will not copy that file using the 'Copy' function.
To make a bootable OS 9.x CD from an original OS 9.x media, you have to
do it this way:
- Open Toast 10.x and insert the original OS 9.x CD
- Select 'Data' in Toast 10.x
- From the menu 'File' select 'Save As Disk Image...'
Then you get a .toast file, which also contain the invisible boot-entry
file and can be burned using Toast 10.x. Double-clicking on the .toast
file will open Toast 10 directly in 'Copy' -> 'Image File' and the Toast
image icon occours to the right.
- Click on the 'Burn' button
- Insert an empty CD-R
- Select burning speed - best between 4x and 16x
- Close tray and wait until the line 'Blank CD-R' occorus underneath the
name of the burner.
- Click 'Burn'
- After burning is finished wait until you hear the 'bing' sound after
the verification.
Such a CD is bootable on any Mac capable of booting from OS 9.x. - I did
this as late as last sunday to help a friend who needed both a bootable
OS 9.2.x and classic envirement on his Tiger...
>> What am I missing?
>
> The most likely explanation is that the old iMac's CD-ROM drive doesn't
> like the particular blank CD media you used, or you might need to tell
> Toast to burn at a slower speed so that an older drive can read it
> reliably.
>
> I've encountered older CD-ROM drives that used to be OK, but now have
> trouble reading _any_ recordable media, while still being OK with
> pressed media. Something like dirt on the lens, perhaps?
Could be, - could also be a damaged media. Not all media are as good as
they should be.
If it is dirt on the laser, you can use one of those cleaning CDs that
can be bought in HiFi shops - fx. from 3M or AM. - But NOTE. DO NEVER
USE WET CLEANERS on any modern laser PU - only use dry cleaning CDs.
Cheers, Erik Richard
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Erik Richard Sørensen, Member of ADC, <mac-m...@Mstofanet.dk>
NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Text Processing - www.nisus.com
OpenOffice.org - The Modern Productivity Solution - www.openoffice.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Erik Richard Sørensen
Dave - read my anser and description in my answer to David E....