PPC *nix
Jodie Blaylock
with Superdrive. Someday I might want to install on my PowerBook G4
800Mhz with combo drive. I am mainly interested in Yellow Dog, Debian,
Suse, and the BSDs Free, Net, and Open for now. Any input people have on
their first hand experiences involving compatibility is appreciated. I
would like to be able to use all onboard hardware that I can use with OS
X. Thanks.
Alan Zisman
Jodie Blaylock <jbla...@mymacmail.com.spam> wrote:
Why not simply use OS X? It's BSD-based Unix.
Any other *NIX OS is unlikely to have either the hardware support or the
ease of use.
Måns Rullgård
> In article <jblaylock-5322D...@news.comcast.giganews.com>,
> Jodie Blaylock <jbla...@mymacmail.com.spam> wrote:
>
>> I would like to install various forms of Linux/UNIX on my iMac G4 800MHz
>> with Superdrive. Someday I might want to install on my PowerBook G4
>> 800Mhz with combo drive. I am mainly interested in Yellow Dog, Debian,
>> Suse, and the BSDs Free, Net, and Open for now. Any input people have on
>> their first hand experiences involving compatibility is appreciated. I
>> would like to be able to use all onboard hardware that I can use with OS
>> X. Thanks.
>
> Why not simply use OS X? It's BSD-based Unix.
MacOS X is *not* based on BSD. It's based on a Mach kernel.
> Any other *NIX OS is unlikely to have either the hardware support or the
> ease of use.
I find Linux much easier to use than MacOSX. AFAIK, the Linux support
for Mac hardware is pretty good.
BTW, is it possible to run AIX on a Mac, or does it only work on IBM
gear?
--
Måns Rullgård
m...@kth.se
Davide Bianchi
> I would like to install various forms of Linux/UNIX on my iMac G4 800MHz
> with Superdrive.
I used for sometime a PPC Suse on a Mac G4, I found it incredibly
slow. But maybe because I've never tinkered very much with the
graphical configuration. The only problem I had was the installation
with that strange 'new world/old world' way.
Davide
--
| I was born because it was a habit in those days, people didn't know
| anything else ... I was not a Child Prodigy, because a Child Prodigy
| is a child who knows as much when it is a child as it does when it
| grows up. -- Will Rogers
Jodie Blaylock
Alan Zisman <al...@nospam.zisman.ca> wrote:
I am using OS X. I am a computer science major so I think I should know
traditional Linux/UNIX. I'm not looking for ease of use.
Brian Paul Ehni
jblaylock-AAD43...@news.comcast.giganews.com, "Jodie Blaylock"
<jbla...@mymacmail.com.spam> wrote:
>
> I am using OS X. I am a computer science major so I think I should know
> traditional Linux/UNIX. I'm not looking for ease of use.
Then stick with a PC! 8^)
Just kidding!
--
Brian Ehni
Alan Zisman
> Alan Zisman <al...@nospam.zisman.ca> writes:
>
> > In article <jblaylock-5322D...@news.comcast.giganews.com>,
> > Jodie Blaylock <jbla...@mymacmail.com.spam> wrote:
> >
> >> I would like to install various forms of Linux/UNIX on my iMac G4 800MHz
> >> with Superdrive. Someday I might want to install on my PowerBook G4
> >> 800Mhz with combo drive. I am mainly interested in Yellow Dog, Debian,
> >> Suse, and the BSDs Free, Net, and Open for now. Any input people have on
> >> their first hand experiences involving compatibility is appreciated. I
> >> would like to be able to use all onboard hardware that I can use with OS
> >> X. Thanks.
> >
> > Why not simply use OS X? It's BSD-based Unix.
>
> MacOS X is *not* based on BSD. It's based on a Mach kernel.
>
Yes it has a Mach kernel. But, according to the book "Mac OS X Panther
Unleashed: "Underneath the colorful interface of Mac OS X is a powerful,
complicated operating system based on BSD Unix. "
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0672326043/104-9004440-8575
130?v=glance
Måns Rullgård
> In article <yw1x8yib...@kth.se>, m...@kth.se (Måns Rullgård) wrote:
>
>> Alan Zisman <al...@nospam.zisman.ca> writes:
>>
>> > In article <jblaylock-5322D...@news.comcast.giganews.com>,
>> > Jodie Blaylock <jbla...@mymacmail.com.spam> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I would like to install various forms of Linux/UNIX on my iMac G4 800MHz
>> >> with Superdrive. Someday I might want to install on my PowerBook G4
>> >> 800Mhz with combo drive. I am mainly interested in Yellow Dog, Debian,
>> >> Suse, and the BSDs Free, Net, and Open for now. Any input people have on
>> >> their first hand experiences involving compatibility is appreciated. I
>> >> would like to be able to use all onboard hardware that I can use with OS
>> >> X. Thanks.
>> >
>> > Why not simply use OS X? It's BSD-based Unix.
>>
>> MacOS X is *not* based on BSD. It's based on a Mach kernel.
>>
> Yes it has a Mach kernel. But, according to the book "Mac OS X Panther
> Unleashed: "Underneath the colorful interface of Mac OS X is a powerful,
> complicated operating system based on BSD Unix. "
Yes, some userland tools are from BSD. I guess it all depends on
where one draws the line between operating system and applications.
--
Måns Rullgård
m...@kth.se
Christopher Browne
> Alan Zisman <al...@nospam.zisman.ca> writes:
>
>> In article <yw1x8yib...@kth.se>, m...@kth.se (Måns Rullgård) wrote:
>>
>>> Alan Zisman <al...@nospam.zisman.ca> writes:
>>>
>>> > In article <jblaylock-5322D...@news.comcast.giganews.com>,
>>> > Jodie Blaylock <jbla...@mymacmail.com.spam> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> I would like to install various forms of Linux/UNIX on my iMac G4 800MHz
>>> >> with Superdrive. Someday I might want to install on my PowerBook G4
>>> >> 800Mhz with combo drive. I am mainly interested in Yellow Dog, Debian,
>>> >> Suse, and the BSDs Free, Net, and Open for now. Any input people have on
>>> >> their first hand experiences involving compatibility is appreciated. I
>>> >> would like to be able to use all onboard hardware that I can use with OS
>>> >> X. Thanks.
>>> >
>>> > Why not simply use OS X? It's BSD-based Unix.
>>>
>>> MacOS X is *not* based on BSD. It's based on a Mach kernel.
>>>
>> Yes it has a Mach kernel. But, according to the book "Mac OS X Panther
>> Unleashed: "Underneath the colorful interface of Mac OS X is a powerful,
>> complicated operating system based on BSD Unix. "
>
> Yes, some userland tools are from BSD. I guess it all depends on
> where one draws the line between operating system and applications.
Ah, but the set of APIs that they implement are based on BSD, as well.
And I don't believe they are using the 'microkernel' form of Mach; as
a result, there may be quite a lot of FreeBSD code found even within
the kernel.
Certainly the flavour the OS-X most resembles is the BSD branch of
Unix...
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Why isn't phonetic spelled the way it sounds?
Måns Rullgård
>>>> > Why not simply use OS X? It's BSD-based Unix.
>>>>
>>>> MacOS X is *not* based on BSD. It's based on a Mach kernel.
>>>>
>>> Yes it has a Mach kernel. But, according to the book "Mac OS X Panther
>>> Unleashed: "Underneath the colorful interface of Mac OS X is a powerful,
>>> complicated operating system based on BSD Unix. "
>>
>> Yes, some userland tools are from BSD. I guess it all depends on
>> where one draws the line between operating system and applications.
>
> Ah, but the set of APIs that they implement are based on BSD, as well.
Most Unixes have more or less the same APIs, so it's really not that
simple to say that it is "based on BSD", only looking at the API.
Linux/glibc implement approximately the same API, without being based
on BSD.
> And I don't believe they are using the 'microkernel' form of Mach; as
> a result, there may be quite a lot of FreeBSD code found even within
> the kernel.
There is certainly some BSD code in there, but the kernel is not a
FreeBSD kernel. Maybe the most correct thing to say is that
MacOSX/Darwin is based on "Mach and BSD".
> Certainly the flavour the OS-X most resembles is the BSD branch of
> Unix...
That could very well be. I haven't used either enough to be able to
tell.
--
Måns Rullgård
m...@kth.se
David Magda
> Yes, some userland tools are from BSD. I guess it all depends on
> where one draws the line between operating system and applications.
They do take large portions of the FreeBSD kernel.
For a very good explanation of the OS X kernel I recommend:
http://www.kernelthread.com/mac/osx/arch_xnu.html
Some of the kernel level stuff that the author mentions:
. process model
. user ids, permissions, basic security policies
. POSIX API, BSD style system calls
. TCP/IP stack, BSD sockets, firewall
. VFS and filesystems (see Mac OS X Filesystems for details)
. System V IPC
. crypto framework
. various synchronization mechanisms
--
David Magda <dmagda at ee.ryerson.ca>, http://www.magda.ca/
Because the innovator has for enemies all those who have done well under
the old conditions, and lukewarm defenders in those who may do well
under the new. -- Niccolo Machiavelli, _The Prince_, Chapter VI
AJ
WELL..in that case why don't you install Gentoo from source and you can
configure it to your liking from the ground up...much improved speed
compared to a binary install IMHO :)
-AJ
David Haworth
> MacOS X is *not* based on BSD. It's based on a Mach kernel.
as I understand it, at the lowest level is a mach'ish kernel. this was
chosen for it's modularity (although it's not used in a microkernel
sense particularly). above that is a bsdish kernel that implements
different things. on top of that is userland.
> BTW, is it possible to run AIX on a Mac, or does it only work on IBM
> gear?
no, I don't beleive you can, and from the limited experiennce with AIX
I've had, you don't want to either :)
dave
Christopher Browne
>> MacOS X is *not* based on BSD. It's based on a Mach kernel.
>
> as I understand it, at the lowest level is a mach'ish kernel. this was
> chosen for it's modularity (although it's not used in a microkernel
> sense particularly). above that is a bsdish kernel that implements
> different things. on top of that is userland.
There's more to it than that... While it uses Mach, it's using it
more in the NeXT fashion, which predated Raschid's "microkernel" work.
It's not playing as a microkernel; it puts a lot of BSD code in...
"Mac OS X began life as a child of OpenStep 4.x. The first stage in
the evolution was the move from OpenStep 4.x to Rhapsody, which was
based on BSD Lite2, with a batch of NeXT-instigated changes. When we
shifted to Mac OS X from Rhapsody/Mac OS X Server, we incorporated
FreeBSD 3.2 changes for the networking piece. The rest of the BSD
portion of the kernel remained more or less as it was. At the same
time, we (i.e., Fred, with your [Darwin's] help) pulled in command
and library updates. Most of these are from FreeBSD, although I'm not
positive about the heritage of the pieces that are now in the system."
>> BTW, is it possible to run AIX on a Mac, or does it only work on IBM
>> gear?
>
> no, I don't beleive you can, and from the limited experiennce with AIX
> I've had, you don't want to either :)
No, AIX expects to have the eSeries backplane and all the other such
stuff that, in the PC world, would be associated with the combination
of motherboard and BIOS.
There's a fair likelihood of there being AIX-specific microcode on the
chip, too...
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Hans
This is a silly argument to anyone who knows the facts.
The kernel for MacOS-X is based upon Mach, which was itself designed by
the researchers at Carnegie Mellon to implement the API from BSD. The
userland code in MacOS-X was largely derived from NextStep and the
various open source BSD derivatives. The most accurate thing that can
be said about MacOS is that it is a unix derivative that borrows from
other unix derivatives but differs from all of them in significant ways.
As for what Apple says, since when did that mean anything? You can be
sure that whatever Apple has to say about their products to the
company's user base of clueless technophobes is going to be an vague at
best because the target audience isn't capable of discerning the
difference between Mach, BSD, NextStep, etc.
Ken Dere
I have a PPC G3 which will not run OS X. What are my best linux
alternatives?
Ken D.
--
Ken D.
Skylar Thompson
OS X has some issues, particularly in how it does authentication. I'm not
sure if this is an issue in this case, but we migrated our 16-node xServe
Beowulf cluster from OS X to Yellowdog because of its broken NIS
implementation. It's a lot faster too, since we can run all the nodes
without a GUI.
--
-- Skylar Thompson (sky...@cs.earlham.edu)
-- http://www.cs.earlham.edu/~skylar/