Marathon Beta - CC Screen nogo
Your Name
After wading thru this newsgroups for WEEKS (albiet almost MONTHS)
listening to all the grype/hype about Marathon while looking for those
software deals that I had come to expect to find on this feed, I
downloaded the demo this weekend from UMICH...
One would have thought that with all the time Bungie spent "Making it
perfect" that they'd have thought of alternate screen sizing...
I've got a Color Classic...hopped up to 33 Mghz and Thousands...Don't
even THINK about suggesting that I get a new computer as a "SOLUTION" to
this problem...I'm quite happy with the one I've got and don't have rich
parents or money of my own (I'm an English Teacher)...
Brass Tacks: Here it is -> damned thing doesn't work on anything
smaller than 13".
All I have to say is, "Oops for Bungie. I guess they won't be getting
my (?$69?)..."
Being a programmer myself, I don't know what to say about not
supporting all MAJOR platforms...PLENTY of people have 12" monitors...The
code for multi sizing is clear, clean, and PD in Metroworks C...I guess
you just want to sell you product to a mere cross section of the
population...Boy am I glad! I get to save more money (Please feel free to
flame at my scarcasm).
Kevin Stone
I don't want to flame you.. most of what you said here was perfectly
justified. But there are other things to consider...
: One would have thought that with all the time Bungie spent "Making it
: perfect" that they'd have thought of alternate screen sizing...
This is the one major concern people have expressed about the
Demo aside from a few bugs.. This (lack of) feature is quite annoying.
: I've got a Color Classic...hopped up to 33 Mghz and Thousands...Don't
: even THINK about suggesting that I get a new computer as a "SOLUTION" to
: this problem...I'm quite happy with the one I've got and don't have rich
: parents or money of my own (I'm an English Teacher)...
33Mhz, 030, I assume? Actually you should be able to optimize
the game to run quite acceptably on that machine. I have a PowerMac 7100
that it screams on, but your post made me think how it would run on my LC
upgraded to 50Mhz 030... I ought to try that. Maybe I can network them!
: Brass Tacks: Here it is -> damned thing doesn't work on anything
: smaller than 13".
This IS a bitch.. both of my computers have 13" monitors, but
my LC originally came with a 12 inch. No doubt, many people still use
those smaller screens. But, unfortunatly, it will always be important to
upgrade your existing hardware to conform to the software you want to
run. This is all a part of progress I guess.
: All I have to say is, "Oops for Bungie. I guess they won't be getting
: my (?$69?)..."
Unfortunatly for you.. I'm sure they won't miss it. That's not
sarcasm.. that's a fact. Even though there may be tens of thousands of
users who still use a 12 inch monitor OR inferior machines, there will be
tens of thousands more who are useing 13" monitors and high-end
hardware.
: Being a programmer myself, I don't know what to say about not
: supporting all MAJOR platforms...PLENTY of people have 12" monitors...The
: code for multi sizing is clear, clean, and PD in Metroworks C...I guess
: you just want to sell you product to a mere cross section of the
: population...Boy am I glad! I get to save more money (Please feel free to
: flame at my scarcasm).
I don't know how true this is.. but perhaps Bungie simply decided that
this program was only going to be used by people who own high-end Macs.
And, of course, most... if not all high-end machines today (ie. computers
sold with the 030/33Mhz and above) come equiped with a 13" monitor to begin
with. But, I don't really know thier reasoning behind it. I personaly
wish they had left the game as flexible as possible. Since they created
it so it could be played on an 020.. they should have allowed game play
on 12 inch monitors as well. This seems only logical.. does it not?
Just remember that you are not alone in your frustration. Many others..
Includeing my slef, have had problems with the Demo. I doubt the realy
real game will change these features to our likeing, but non-the-less,
Marathon will take gameing market by the balls and hold it above its
head! Perhaps the next generation of 3D games (ie. Dark Forces, MacDOOM,
and Quake) will support the 12" monitors. You never know... And, by the
way? Does Wolfinstien 3D and Sensory Overload support 12"ers? You may
want to check these out.. they are both pretty cool too.
K.B.S.
kbs...@silver.sdsmt.edu
Gregory Jackson
(Kevin Stone) wrote:
> But, unfortunatly, it will always be important to
> upgrade your existing hardware to conform to the software you want to
> run. This is all a part of progress I guess.
>
No flame intended...(people are sensitive about Marathon)
I gave up on progress being poor. This is my fourth computer and third
mac in a 3 year time frame. I have a Q605. The bitch about the screen
size is a good one. I feel that upgrade cards will keep us in line with
current technology and has been a selling point for the PCs. I can
upgrade for about $500 dollars now to the PowerPc without spending the
1600.00 I obviously do not have. That way if bungie supports the
peripherals it would be more cost effective for the consumer.
Greg
--
Greg Jackson
zu0...@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu
Damir Smitlener
user...@osu.edu (Your Name) wrote:
> Whelp...
[...snip...]
> Brass Tacks: Here it is -> damned thing doesn't work on anything
> smaller than 13".
>
> All I have to say is, "Oops for Bungie. I guess they won't be getting
> my (?$69?)..."
>
> Being a programmer myself, I don't know what to say about not
> supporting all MAJOR platforms...PLENTY of people have 12" monitors...The
> code for multi sizing is clear, clean, and PD in Metroworks C...I guess
> you just want to sell you product to a mere cross section of the
> population...Boy am I glad! I get to save more money (Please feel free to
> flame at my scarcasm).
Why are you complaining? I'm running a 17" monitor, and I have recently
discovered that when Mac software says 'Full screen' it really means that
'crappy' old 640x480 setting - which means I have to switch resolutions to
get a decent window size! How about a 'Full screen ++' setting?
I'd much rather have them looking forward than backward.
--
damir smitlener |
gt7...@prism.gatech.edu |
da...@is.net |
Dennis Benjamin
>population...Boy am I glad! I get to save more money (Please feel free to
>flame at my scarcasm).
OK. English teachers don't deserve powerful computers. Maybe if you did
something useful ...
tiny screen computers are obsolete. Just stick with Word 1.0 and be happy.
--
--- DB benj...@picasso.ucsf.edu
"A biped capable of slaying another with iron is evidently to modern eyes a
man and a brother. It cannot be doubted that for smashing skulls, iron is best"
-Winston Churchill, 'A History of the English Speaking Peoples'
Bryan Wu
J. K. Ulrikson
I KNOW that Wolfenstein does...all the way down to <10" monitors in fact...
JKU
J. K. Ulrikson
just to play some game...get the point? I have a perfectly good
machine...it's running at 50Mghz...it's got all the Vram it's ever gonna
get...it's got 10 Megs of desktop...NO NEW COMPUTER!!! The blasted
software should work with ALL PLATFORMS, well over 80% of Macintosh users
today DO NOT HAVE POWER PC's NOR DO THEY HAVE 13" monitors...Clue here,
Macintosh is NOT a gaming/video arcade machine...
Jamin A. Brown
was primarily sold with LCs and LC IIs am I correct? My point is that a
lot of the people with 12" monitors area also going to have slow
computers. Yes, they should be running Marathon at smaller screens, but
there are a whole hell of a lot of games out there that only run in
640x480 mode. Myst is one, most CD rom games. But I don't hear a whole
hell of a lot of complaining about those. Bungie told me at MacWorld they
didn't like CD roms, and that was why they put Marathon on Floppies. Maybe
since it will be out on floppies you all think it should work on slower
machines.
14" monitors have been standard since before the LC came out. The 12"
really shouldn't have been made in the first place. If you all play a lot
of games on your computer, I don't see how you have been with a 12",
because there are quite a few that just don't support it.
I'm not trying to start a flame war here, just a few observations.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jamin Brown jbro...@maine.maine.edu
"I know you. But you ain't you. You can't be you. We killed you. We
threw you out the window. This is the really real world. There ain't
no coming back. There ain't no coming back!" -T-Bird, from "The Crow"
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Jamin A. Brown
Actually, many more mac users have 13/14" monitors than you let on. The
12" was a mistake. Apple knows it. It was designed so that low end
computers could get 256 colors without a vram upgrade. It was cheap.
All platforms? As far as I know, Marathon runs fine on all currently made
machines. Doom II requires a 486 or Pentium doesn't it? I think it can run
on a 386, but just how well can it do that? Bungie has done an incredible
job at making Marathon run on as many Macs as possible. Computers get old
very fast. 6 months after you buy one, there is one faster out. That is a
fact. Yes it can hurt, and be annoying, but at least you got 6 months of
use out of your computer instead of waiting for the next best thing. If
you bought from the middle of the line, you should have known that the end
would come even sooner.
As for software working on all platforms, I think the mac is amazing for
that. MS Word 5.1a runs just fine on my olf SE. I maxed the computer out
in terms of RAM, but it still ran quite a bit of software quite well. I
would love to see an 8088 running windows. Because my 68000 8Mhz SE was
running 7.1 by the time I was done with it, and it had no problems. Of
course it was slow, but big deal. I even ran it with a line and a half of
extensions. Try that on an old PC.
As for your statement that the Mac is not a games machine, you are right,
the Mac is a computer. It does games just as well as any other serious
computer though. I think that seeing Marathon in action proves that it
works better than quite a few.
You could probably say the same 80% thing about PC users with Pentiums and
Super VGA, does it matter? No. Marathon does work on an 020. Doom will not
even open on a 286. Bungie has said that they recommend an 040 or 601 to
play the game. They never told you it would be fast on an 020 or 030, just
that it would run, and you could play.
This whole small monitor thing is getting out of hand. There are so many
games out there that don't run on the 12" monitor, that if you are using
your system with one of those for games, you should have upgraded to a 14"
by now. it is standard. the 12" never was standard, and never will be.
I guess I just want to say, quit griping. If you can't deal with the fact
that one game won't run on your computer, you should be shopping for a
games system like SNES or something, not a Mac. Your computer as you say,
is more than a games machine. Then why are you making so much a fuss about
one little game?
Tim Seufert
> I've got a Color Classic...hopped up to 33 Mghz and Thousands...Don't
> even THINK about suggesting that I get a new computer as a "SOLUTION" to
> this problem...I'm quite happy with the one I've got and don't have rich
> parents or money of my own (I'm an English Teacher)...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Somehow I have problems believing this, given the low quality of your
writing. (Bad grammar, sentence fragments, clumsy phrasing - if I was
grading your post, I'd give you an F just on grammar issues).
> Being a programmer myself, I don't know what to say about not
> supporting all MAJOR platforms...PLENTY of people have 12" monitors...The
> code for multi sizing is clear, clean, and PD in Metroworks C...I guess
> you just want to sell you product to a mere cross section of the
> population...Boy am I glad! I get to save more money (Please feel free to
> flame at my scarcasm).
Why should they bother? Even your "hopped up to 33 Mghz [sic]" Color
Classic isn't anywhere near to being enough of a machine to play
Marathon. Most machines with 12" or smaller monitors are simply not fast
enough to play Marathon at any kind of a decent frame rate. It really
needs an 040, or at least a very fast 030 (40 to 50 MHz).
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
| *UselessWastedSpace*(tm) Tim Seufert, bwa...@cats.ucsc.edu |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
| Do the environment a favor. Use goat-flavored floppy disks. |
| Think about it, won't you? Thank you. |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
James Derr
>Once again, there's no way in hell that I'm going to get a new computer
>just to play some game...get the point? I have a perfectly good
>machine...it's running at 50Mghz...it's got all the Vram it's ever gonna
>get...it's got 10 Megs of desktop...
I have exactly the same setup and exactly the same problem. I frankly see
no reason why, if Marathon would run acceptably on a Q605, it wouldn't run
acceptably on a Color Classic with 50 MHz acceleration. It doesn't seem to
me that it would be a terrific leap in the coding to support a smaller
monitor, since the graphics apparently can be customized to 50% full-screen,
75% full-screen, line-skipping, etc. The only sticking point, then, is
whether or not the game is doing something funny with the hardware itself
which would require greatly modified code to run in a 512x384 screen. I
very much doubt that this is the case, but it might be so. The fact that
the beta version (from what I have heard) supported 12" monitors would
indicate that there is nothing special or unique about the code that
requires 640x480. That leaves the conclusion that the requirement for
640x480 was an arbitrary decision--and an annoying one, from my
perspective.
My question, then, is: why, if it can run in 50% screen size on a 640x480
monitor, wouldn't you make a few little changes, grey out a few menu
choices, and allow it to run on a 512x480 screen? Instead of a "100%",
"75%", "50%" scheme, why not use "640x480", "480x360", and "320x240"?
If you have a 12" monitor, you disable "640x480", and leave the other
two options, both of which fit comfortably in 512x384. Since the game
can already display in modes which fit comfortably on a 12" monitor,
it doesn't seem like a terrifically great leap to make these additions.
Therefore, why make the arbitrary decision--especially when it seems to
contradict what I think of as "The Macintosh Way"?
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
James B. Derr de...@essex.hsc.colorado.edu
"Prepare yourself for an intense relationship with a vegetable soup."
Louis Gascoigne
Then why are you so seemingly angered by not being able to play this game?
.
Nick Apruzzi
>>games out there that don't run on the 12" monitor, that if you are using
>>your system with one of those for games, you should have upgraded to a 14"
>>by now. it is standard. the 12" never was standard, and never will be.
Apple needs to take some of the blame for this. When the LC/12" came out
Apple marketed it very hard through the educational channels where game play
is important. At the time a color Mac II was prohibitively expensive to the
starving student, or the non-DTP business user for that matter. Given the
choice between a b&w Mac SE or a color PC clone, the student would go with
the PC because of the games (flamers, if you disagree with this you are
kidding yourselves).
The LC/12" was to be the affordable color(read games) Mac. Remember, 3
years ago the 13" cost $750 and the 12" only $350! Apple really should have
noted that programmers (of games and everything else) would ignore the 12"
and only write for the 13" standard.
-------------------------------------------------------------
NJMUG BBS - 908.388.1676 (28.8K) FirstClass BBS
The online home of the New Jersey Macintosh Users Group
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Nick Apruzzi
>>really shouldn't have been made in the first place. If you all play a lot
>>of games on your computer, I don't see how you have been with a 12",
>>because there are quite a few that just don't support it.
When Harpoon came out in color it only supported 13". However, when enough
people complained they updated it to run on the 12".
The 12" shouldn't have been made but it is out there and, because of Apple's
marketing strategies and outragious prices 3 years ago, alot of Mac users in
the "game player" demographics have 12"s
If this group complains enough to Bungie (and they get accelerator cards)
Marathon could be able to run on an LC/12"
(Or just be like me-drop out of grad school for a year between degrees and
work to pay for a new Mac :-)
Chris Lishka
To those who want to play the Marathon Demo on a monitor smaller than
640x480, I >HAVE< found a way. I played Marathon last night on my
PowerBook 165c (with >no< external monitor) with the 640x400 LCD.
Look for my message "How to play Marathon on small monitors" posted in
this newsgroup and the new alt.*.marathon newsgroup. A warning: your
mileage may vary.
Also, let me say that I find the attitude that >>us folks with small
monitors should simply upgrade our equipment<< to be obnoxious. I
played Marathon on my 33MHz PB165c and was quite satisfied with the
performance, even with the slow color LCD. I did play in 50% mode
with every-other-line-off (and no floor/ceiling textures), but the
demo was certainly enjoyable and I can see myself wasting many hours
with it. I plan to purchase the full game.
Rather than stupid comments on how us users of "non-standard" Macs
should get standard equipment, offer constructive suggestions instead.
.oO Chris Oo.
--
I hear the endless murmur, Christopher Lishka
Every blade of grass that shimmers in the breeze PPE Division, CERN
And the sound that comes to carry me lis...@dxcern.cern.ch
Across the land and over the sea. -- Crowded House vxaluw::lishka
Cerebus The Aardvark
Sorry, I'd be shocked if more than 30% of mac users didn't have a 13" or
larger display. Heck, even Kinkos has upgraded to all 13"+ monitors, not a
Mac Classic II in sight...
As a matter of fact, the only mac people I know without a 13" monitor are
my parents, who still have a Mac Plus with 4 megs of RAM and are trying to
use PageMaker 4.0 I keep telling them to upgrade....
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David Hartman
Boy I love seeing the posts in this group, first we get the I hate bungie because
Marathon is late now we get the boy I hate Bungie because Marathon is a cutting edge
game that requires that you own a computer that uses technoligy that is no more
then 2 years old.
I mean look at the PC world. Doom that wonderfull &) game that everyone loves REQUIRES
a minimum of a 25Mh 486. So those people that own 16 - 50 Mh 020 macs need to
understand that the speed of the processor isn't what makes the computer slow it's
the speed of the buss and the inability of the processor to do what needs done.
Or better yet GET A LIFE and quit complaining that you have a platform that is out
of date!
---
"anyone that says it's as easy as taking candy from a baby, never tried to take candy from a baby" R. Hood
David Hartman
dav...@ims.com
Claude Denton
>today DO NOT HAVE POWER PC's NOR DO THEY HAVE 13" monitors...Clue here,
>Macintosh is NOT a gaming/video arcade machine...
OK, so why do you care that a gaming/video arcade game (Marathon) won't
run on your version of "Macintosh?"
Chris Russo
Ulrikson, ulrik...@osu.edu writes:
>Once again, there's no way in hell that I'm going to get a new computer
>just to play some game...get the point? I have a perfectly good
>machine...it's running at 50Mghz...it's got all the Vram it's ever gonna
>get...it's got 10 Megs of desktop...NO NEW COMPUTER!!! The blasted
>software should work with ALL PLATFORMS, well over 80% of Macintosh users
>Macintosh is NOT a gaming/video arcade machine...
What's your point, then? So it's not a gaming machine... that makes it all
the more amazing that Bungie pulled off such an awesome game.
As a professional programmer myself, I always try to keep the size of my
target market as large as possible by including support for older equipment.
However, I'll never understand indignation such as this. It's not your
inalienable right to have Marathon work on your system.
It all comes down to Bungie's choice or resource distribution. Should they
spend the time tweaking the game to work with Color Classics vs. say, adding
an extra level, or tweaking the game for the 630 (A much faster and more
common computer), or improving alien AI functions? Considering that the Color
Classic is too slow a machine to even play the game, I don't see why they
should even consider it. Yeah, you have an accelerator... the Color Classic
with 50 mghz accelerator market must be HUGE.
On a similar note:
Everybody wanted the demo... "Where's the demo?" "What the hell is Bungie
doing?" "Bungie Sucks! I want that demo." "Waaa Waaaa sniffle sniffle"
So, despite some technical problems that Bungie encountered, they rushed a
demo out to us. Now it's "This demo sucks!" "I can't play this demo on my
Lisa, Bungie Sucks!" "My 2Mghz LC is too slow to run the demo" "Waaaaa Waaa
sniffle sniffle"
What a boatload of children.
Bungie has done something truly incredible and all some people can do is whine.
Considering the sorry state of the Mac gaming situation, I feel that Bungie
has done us an immense favor.
*descending from soapbox*
YMMV, IMHO, lotsa :-)
bye,
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Chris Russo Macintosh Programmer
Sonic Systems, Inc. (408) 736-1900 #107
ch...@sonicsys.com "Get over it!" - Eagles