SimCity 2000 Review
Unknown
SimCity 2000 is a major upgrade to the original SimCity. It now
includes 3D type graphics, subways, water pipes, highways, libraries,
colleges, zoos, museums, and a host of other features. Overall, the
interface is well-implemented, if not a bit on the cramped side.
The same general idea behind SimCity applies. You start with either
$20,000 or $10,000 or even a $10,000 bond which you must repay (another
new feature.) With this money, you must build a city. You can zone
blocks of land as residential, commercial, or industrial. New in this
version, you can choose light or dense zoning. Some new zones in this
version include airports and seaports (unlike previous versions, when an
airport or seaport is built, there is no guarantee it will function
until there is a need for it.)
"Sims" move into your city, living, working, and shopping. Factors
that affect Sim population include crime, pollution, and traffic, so a
city must be carefully planned. New in this version is a monthly
newspaper, which reports approval ratings, problems, and local news.
Also new is the fact that budgets and population are calculated monthly
rather than yearly.
However, although SimCity 2000 is a great concept, in certain areas
it falls short. It has heavy system requirements, including a 256 color
monitor, LC or better computer, System 7, four megs of RAM, and two megs
of hard drive space. I'm sure that PowerBook users would appreciate a
less-demanding version. The program itself is quite large, but the real
problem lies in the fact that each city consumes 60-100K of hard drive
space. Also, on my IIsi the game is occasionally sluggish, although it
performs much better than other new memory-intense games. I also found,
more seriously, that After Dark crashes SimCity 2000 on my machine.
Another problem present in many Maxis games is SimCity's complexity.
I've used SimCity for a long time, so SimCity 2000 wasn't too hard to
learn, but the overwhelming amount of icons and poor manual might
intimidate many users. SimCity used to be very simple, unlike other
Maxis games such as SimEarth and, from what I've heard, SimLife. I
would appreciate an option where money is no concern, as it is near
impossible to develop a large city with the funds given at the start of
the game, and taxes bring in miniscule amounts in a small city. There
is no shift-fund, as there was in the old SimCity, to alleviate this
problem.
Fortunately, although SimCity 2000's MSRP is $70, it is available
through MacZone and other chains for $35-45.
Overall, I'd highly recommend SimCity 2000, although I think Maxis
should develop a black and white version. Be warned, however: there is
no upgrade from the old SimCity (Maxis considers this a new product
altogether).
paul newman
Simcity 2000 also includes 3 levels of zoom (standard, and 2 zoomed out
views), ability to rotate the view in order to see behind your large
buildings, and a built in terrain editor.
Your cities have hills which you can build your roads on (or through w/
tunnels) and there are fresh & salt water systems. I think that the
manual does a good job of introducing the new features, perhaps not
giving enough details about cost and other info about each item (like in
a-train), but the good things definitely outnumber the bad.
The mass transit system is quite good, with bus depots, rails, subways,
and of course stations for those, in addition to the ability to link
your railways to the subways.
Also, you can create links with your 4 (or 3 if you have an ocean by
your city) neighbors through rails, roads, or highways.
All in all, if you love simcity, or are interested in a great city
planning game, i'd reccommend SimCity 2000!
(and if you order soon you
may get a signature editon)
Jason Newquist
BTW, I don't think the game is too complex or even highly complex. I
think it is perfect. SimLife was too complex. But not this game. I
think the rationale for adding complexity is in keeping the game from
being boring later on, i.e., an attempt to make the game age well. SimCity
2000 seems to have achieved a good balance between lasting interest and
plug-and-play ability. I have never played the original SimCity, yet I
was able to play SimCity after only a few minutes' browsing through the
manual. Granted, I have discovered more complex features as I have
continued, but this shows that the writers have given thought to the
interface. I could have discovered these if I had read the manual; but I
discovered them from playing around: which is what you are expected to do
in a so-called "software toy."
I would urge anybody to take a thorough look at the highly entertaining
and readable manual. Gosh, it's even full of quotes, poetry, essays and
artwork that make it a much more literate piece of work than you think.
Makes you think that the authors truly enocurage social resonsibility.
Like most of the Sim games, SimCity seems not to be designed for the
"How much SHEER RAW POWER can I amass so I can MUTILATE my opponent" type
of player, rather than toward sensible, thinking types, who can appreciate
decision-making, strategy, and conscientiousness. The game is no fun if
you don't realize or give a hoot about the fact that you are attempting to
give people (well, simulated people) an environment that YOU would want.
If you have this kind of empathy, therein lies the fun and the *REAL*
challenge of the game.
Essay over. Sorry so looooong. Long story short: get this game.
Jason N.
Harry Tuttle
74375...@compuserve.com <Adam Gordon> wrote:
> However, although SimCity 2000 is a great concept, in certain areas
>it falls short. It has heavy system requirements, including a 256 color
>monitor, LC or better computer, System 7, four megs of RAM, and two megs
>of hard drive space. I'm sure that PowerBook users would appreciate a
Ack! This thing REQUIRES System 7?!!?! Being a original Mac II owner, I've
been wary of the speed degradation Sys7 seems to cause but I'm tempted to
upgrade just to play SC2K. Do y'all think it's worth it?
Thanks for any input.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Listen, kid, we're all in it together." Jason Ellis |
| -Archibald Tuttle, Heating Engineer jel...@wam.umd.edu |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
paul newman
signature editions which had the creator's signatures on the cover.
(nothing else special though)
not really that much of a big deal....
Anyone here play SimCity 2000 and have some tips for elimiting that
negative cash flow?
all i can give are ways to insure that you'll lose money each year.
Unknown
> Ack! This thing REQUIRES System 7?!!?! Being a original Mac II owner,
> I've
> been wary of the speed degradation Sys7 seems to cause but I'm tempted
> to
> upgrade just to play SC2K. Do y'all think it's worth it?
>
> Thanks for any input.
System 7 is worthwhile for almost any Mac in my opinion... more and
more stuff in the future will be System 7 only. The upgrade is well
worth it. I haven't had practically ANY problems, speed or whatever (I
have a Mac IIsi.) And SimCity 2000 is a GREAT game... although, as my
review noted, it has its problems.
--Adam Gordon
Thomas Bohmbach, Jr.
worth the wait (and $40+)???
========================================================================
| Thomas Bohmbach, Jr. | And what is good Phaedrus-- |
| bo...@maroon.tc.umn.edu | And what is not good? |
| University of Minnesota | Do we need anyone to tell us these things? |
| Computer Science | - Robert Pirsig |
========================================================================
Albatross
I have played it for several hours since I got it. Not one crash. Not one
bug. Nada.
This has to be one of the cleanest 1.0 versions of anything I have seen
in...well...maybe forever.
--
|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\
|/-\|/-\|/-\ Kevin Tieskoetter |/-\|/-\ Mac Programmer |/-\|/-\|/-\
|/-\|/-\|/-\ Drake Looniversity |/-\|/-\ MicroFrontier, Inc |/-\|/-\|/-\
|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\
David P. Brockington
>Anyone here play SimCity 2000 and have some tips for elimiting that
>negative cash flow?
>all i can give are ways to insure that you'll lose money each year.
Well, I have one city that's about 250 years old now, and is
producing about $2000 annual profit -- but this involves slow growth
(my city only has about 40,000 people) over a long period of time. I
have set my base tax rate at 7%, but industry and residential are taxed at
8% (commercial is only taxed at 4 or 5% depending on my mood and that sector's
growth rate.) Also, I generally give dying industrial sectors lower rates
to keep as much employment out of them as possible.
Right now, I have about $80,000 in reserve. However, the caveat seems
to be slow growth. I would wait about 100 years with a small, profitable
town before expanding dramatically. Oh -- do not take out bonds -- they are
death. My first city (the above-mentioned is my second) was buried in debt
to the point where I had to quit before I was fired.
David P. Brockington
bron...@u.washington.edu
cha...@world.std.com
bron...@stein3.u.washington.edu (David P. Brockington) writes:
> Path: >
grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!olivea!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.ne
> t!news.u.washington.edu!stein3.u.washington.edu!bronyaur
> From: bron...@stein3.u.washington.edu (David P. Brockington)
> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.games
> Subject: Re: SimCity 2000 Review
> Date: 9 Nov 1993 21:31:15 GMT
> Organization: University of Washington
> Lines: 24
> Message-ID: <2bp273$2...@news.u.washington.edu>
> References: <1993Nov7.2...@tigger.jvnc.net> >
<CG58n...@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> <CG5JD...@ucdavis.edu> >
<CG74v...@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu
reserve :). I have about 100 arcos (you need 120,000 ppl before you can
start building arcos) my population is 6,681,531. I am doing quite
well. It is my fourth city. My tips are:
1. Get totally flat terrain except tip 2
2. Hydro plants are the way to go, before you start your city make a
pyrimid of land and make the whole pyramid WATER then use the millions
of water falls to build a hydro electric plant system.
3. Build you zones in long strips of 3 or six. Buils residential all
the way across the whole map (not all at once, comercial then industrial
then comercial then more residental and make striped pattern across the
map as you need to expand.
4. Use a 040 to run it if at all possible. I do and it is very nicec
and fast.
5. Leave it on 24 hours a day in the background. If you can do it. I
have 8 megs of ram, and as long as I do not need the ram I leave it
open.
6. Make sure your life expectincy does not go above 65 or else you will
waste a lot of money on old people.
7. Build Wind plants next to your fire and police departments, you do
not want them losing power.
8. Bus lines are great build them a lot. not as good as rail but a
hell of a lot cheeper.
Hope this helps.
paul newman
sounds pretty neato.... I have the problem that the population starts
bitchin about not being smart even though i have a library system and a
college and school... (and not enough of a BIG population to need more
than 1 of each...)
Plus my advisor says that the education IS good....
do you reccommend using bus depots and rails/subways when starting
earlier?
i can't wait to get some arcologies!!!
One last question. what's the best year to start on, or does it not
matter?
(apart from tech. advances)
and what are your opinions on water system management
.
Oh, you can set this? I looked at those hills, and I said, UGH. that's gonna
make building a large city -much- harder. Fun, though.
: 5. Leave it on 24 hours a day in the background. If you can do it. I
: have 8 megs of ram, and as long as I do not need the ram I leave it
: open.
Ha ha. Yeah, this is neat. It's fairly easy once you get started to make
a stable, money making city. leave it on, and boom.
: 6. Make sure your life expectincy does not go above 65 or else you will
: waste a lot of money on old people.
What, does it keep increasing or something?
- Frank Wang
fw...@sbcs.sunysb.edu
Randy Patton
Well, this isn't the definitive answer, but it works for me.
Grow slowly. The game tempts you with lots of pretty buttons and a
swarm of nifty building options, nearly all of which will wipe you out if
you use them too early. Build one decent residential zone, a slightly
smaller industrial zone, and _no_ commercial zones at start. Build roads
around the zones such that at least two sides of each zone have access to
a road. Bump the tax rate down to 5 or 6 percent. Don't forget a power
plant and network of lines. Sit back and watch.
I play a "reactionary" strategy in which I don't build anything until the
city needs it to grow. When a colored demand bar (R, C, or I) reaches
maximum, I build one medium-sized new zone of the appropriate type,
attach it to the road system and the juice, and wait.
=========================================================================
H. Randy Patton =
Technical Coordinator = **ATTENTION THIEVES**
Virginia Tech English Dept. = No quote in .sig
Randy....@vt.edu =
=========================================================================
Thomas Shao
ut $70,000 in loans. I'm covering the interestst okay, but it's leaving me with
very, very little extra cash to do other things. And one of my power plants is
about to blow up.
I will try that neat way to build a large city that someone else posted (sorry!
I forgot your name). But I think the real challenge of this game (even in easy
mode) is to build a city from 1900 on whatever terrain the game gives you. Thi
s is what I've been doing. I've realized that having different altitudes in you
r game makes development hell. But they are there in real life, so I leave them
there too.
Another poster reported having a small city that was very profitable. I think h
e mentioned that he had about $80,000 in cash. I was just wondering how did you
do this? No matter what happens I always run out of money and have to issue a
bond. Am I expanding too fast? My city is at 2003 and I only have about 28K peo
ple. Growth was great in the beginning, but it's been stagnant for the past few
decades or so.
Can we get away with not building zoos, marinas, stadiums, etc.? My people are
always demanding one or the other. I've build some, but they seem to be worthle
ss. Also, I've cut funding for most of the services to bare minimums (but not z
ero!) This is the only way I can pay off the stupid debt. Anyone have any ideas
on how to get out of this.
I've also been thinking about running the game for 24 hours a day in the backgr
ound. Does it do okay? I'm worried about coming back and finding out that every
one has left :).
ANY MONEY-MAKING TIPS WOULD BE APPRECIATED!!!
Thomas
Chester Liu
After many sleepless hours of playing SC2K, I've found that growth is
usually pretty slow and sometimes unemployment skyrockets for no reason
and people start deserting the city in droves and I'd have to lower the
taxes to 2-3% (down from the usual 8%) to coax them back slowly.
One good tip I have is to leave space around lakes and when you've got
the money, build water pumps all around so you get a huge supply of water.
I agree with the previous poster that buses are the best and cheapest
way to go. It was too hearbreaking to rip up my roads to make rails.
Also, don't forget to build schools. Once I ended up with a pretty
retarded (mentally challenged?) population and unemployment went through
the roof.
The tutorial in the manual starts you off by building huge zones.
I recomment making smaller ones and leaving enough 3x3 sites empty
for police, hospitals, schools, and leave 2x3's for bus depots.
This way, you save money required to demolish existing buildings and
rezoning.
Definitely include waterfalls for hydroelectricity.
Here are some of my questions:
How close to a powerline does a square have to be in order for a
bulding to pop up?
What are the pros and cons of zoning light vs. dense residential/commercial/
industrial, besides the obvious effects of crime and pollution?
Does it help to build parks in commercial and industrial areas, or
just residential areas?
Does anyone have the sound working with a Radius Rocket?
Sound on the old SimCity works but not the new SimCity.
Happy building!
Chester
Michael Rawdon
played was an unmitigated disaster, but it was clear early on that it would be
a disaster, and I decided to keep playing to see if I could pull it out. I
did, but it took a century.
The basic problem I discovered is: Taking out a bond with a small city (10K
or smaller) makes it VERY hard to pay back the bond. (I wish there was some
way to pay back a bond incrementally; sort of like how I'm paying back the
loan I used to buy the Mac I'm running this game on. :-) Interest on a bond
sucks up a significant portion (like, 65%) of a small city's income, and when
power plants and such start dying, it's hard to rebuild them.
Admittedly, I had a small setback when my roommate thought it would be neat to
see what rioters did. In seconds, my downtown area was dust. :-)
I finally pulled out of it by setting my property taxes to 12% one year, and
6% the next two years. This brought in about $1000 every three years with
minimal decay to my city.
Funniest moment so far: Every time my budget window came up, I'd see how my
schools were doing. If things were going well, I'd slash the education budget
by 5%. My roommate found this hilariously funny. :-)
Second funniest moment: I decided to build a college, and thought that the
ideal place would be at the top of a high hill far from the rest of the city.
Seemed appropriate, somehow. :-)
I definitely like the altitude stuff; it makes a city seem much more
"organic".
I thought it was interesting how the residential zones at the edge of the city
only seem to sprout small houses; sort of like a suburb.
Haven't tried rails or highways yet. My next city will probably be a trial
balloon for highways, to keep the residential and industrial sections (mostly)
separate.
The best thing about SimCity 2000 is that it really FEELS like things are
"happening" in the game. The original SimCity seemed much more static,
somehow, but the effects of various changes seem much more evident and
realistic this time around. One thing I would have liked even better would
have been to see multiple ships of different sizes, entering and leaving the
region, and docking to the piers.
Does anyone else suspect that the "Neighbors" window may be a precursor to
perhaps a "SimCounty" product? (I've thought for a while that a sort of
"SimRiverBasin" would be a neat game.) Well, maybe not, but it's a nice
thought. :-)
--
Michael Rawdon raw...@colby.cs.wisc.edu
University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Department, Madison, WI
"Most [agents] will fall into one of three categories:
1. Cynical and paranoid
2. Resigned and paranoid
3. Amused and paranoid.
Anyone who manages to be cynical, resigned, amused and not too paranoid, will
go far."
- The Bluffer's Guide To Espionage
Unknown
> Plus my advisor says that the education IS good....
Don't believe everything the advisor says. Especially the bond advisor.
Bonds will KILL your city! Don't EVER take out a bond!!
> do you reccommend using bus depots and rails/subways when starting
> earlier?
Rails, yes because of the amount of space they need. After a while, bus
depots. When your city starts getting big, go for the subways. They
cost a lot, by the way.
> i can't wait to get some arcologies!!!
Me too.
> One last question. what's the best year to start on, or does it not
> matter?
> (apart from tech. advances)
I like 2050, but it may hurt you a bit economically (increased power
use, etc.) Just don't go with 1900-- there are too many limitations--
and 1900 is a long way from fusion power, etc. so when your city gets
big, you may not be able to effectively run it for a hundred years...
> and what are your opinions on water system management
Complicated. I think it should be optional. I understand how it works,
but it sure is a pain!
--Adam
.
:I will try that neat way to build a large city that someone else posted
540,000 in comp.sys.ibm.pc.strategic.games or whatever.
Some one after me posted a city that uses roads in a very odd way. Basically
chops the roads to itsy bitsys. no three squares are ever touching the same
road.
: Another poster reported having a small city that was very profitable.
I mentioned this for original simcity, for ibm pc. i'm not sure if you
are talking about me or not.
But yeah. If you are interested I will post a city that is on Jan 1900,
and basically I've spent $10,000 of the initial $20,000.
If you leave this city on, and don't touch it, it will quickly grow to a
population of 13,000, and earn roughly 800 dollars a year, for infinity.
If you leave the game on speed 4, then it becomes very very hard to spend
money faster than you earn it. (if you leave the taxes at 7%). At the
peak, I earned $3000-$4000 a year, and topped out around $10,000,000, when
I set the tax rate to 0 because having so much money was screwing up the
display.
I find the high usage of the FUND very humorous, to be honest. It just
isn't needed if you get a good enough start.
Of course, if youare talking exculsively about SC2K, then none of the
above statements means anything. maybe.
- Frank Wang
fw...@sbcs.sunysb.edu
Robert W. Jordan
important thing I viewed as being essential was designing the city the
way I'd like to see it. Somebody posted a way to make your city grow
and give you loads of cash by building the city around a mountain and
leaving the game on. Then you are supposed to lay your zones in
crosshatching strips.
This may be good for growth, but does it satisfy you? The way the city
looks? I've seen the slideshow demo of SC2K for the IBM. I keep
thinking that (once I get the game) I'm going to try to build my city so
it looks "cool". I've got a plan in mind for how I want it to be laid
out. I'm just confused by the design philosophy of the guy who has
6,000,000 sims in his city. It doesn't seem esthetically pleasing, if
you will.
Just my .02
Rob Jordan
Erik Ramberg
(Michael Rawdon) wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone else suspect that the "Neighbors" window may be a precursor to
> perhaps a "SimCounty" product? (I've thought for a while that a sort of
> "SimRiverBasin" would be a neat game.) Well, maybe not, but it's a nice
> thought. :-)
>
What would be really cool is to have an appletalk option that would allow
multiple cities from multiple players to work together and/or compete in
the world market for consumer sales. This would be an excellent upgrade to
SimCity2000 !
-Erik
------------------------------------------------------------------
hmmmmm....
Nothing that I say can be construed as the opinion of my employer.
Chris Weiss
: One of the best things about it:
: I have played it for several hours since I got it. Not one crash. Not one
: bug. Nada.
: This has to be one of the cleanest 1.0 versions of anything I have seen
: in...well...maybe forever.
Albatross - From the entire testing department here at Maxis - THANKS! It's
comments like these that make the whole thing worth it for us :)
Richard Chandler
> ANY MONEY-MAKING TIPS WOULD BE APPRECIATED!!!
Well, there's this chain/Pyramid scam letter that's been circulating the
net.... :-)
Peter Kovacs
(true it's only about 20 miles across the state (I live in RI) but it's substantial if you live here...)
Thanks.
--
Peter Kovacs
kov...@vader.egr.uri.edu
South County, Rhode Island
Al Wilson
wrote:
Well, I found one _very_ little thing wrong last night and thought I'd
bring it up since Maxis is listening. In the Neighbors map display, 2 of
the neighboring cities had the same name. No big deal, just thought I'd
mention it. It's only happened once in about 5 cities so far. Great Job
MAXIS!!!
Al
Thomas Shao
ty. By successfull I mean, it's growing, I'm making money every year and I didn
't take out any loans.
I started at 1900 with $20,000. It's now the year 2170+, I have $80,000+ and ab
out 35,000 people. I've built every type of structure possible, except for arco
logies. And I'm generatinga bout $1,500 every year.
Some pointers for other that I have discovered.
1) Don't worry too much about water towers. Everytime I have a water shortage I
just build more pumps. Find a nice lake and basically surround it with pumps.
I've also put in a few water treatment plants, but I'm not sure if they do anyt
hing.
2) Several people have mentioned using hydroelectric power. Well, I didn't get
any waterfalls in my randomnly generated terrain. And I didn't want to change "
nature" so to speak. I started with coal and went from there. Once I had enough
money, and could generate enough money to sustain it, I went to microwave and
destroyed the 3 coals plants I had. Pollution went down, big time. I also have
1 gas plant and 1 solar plant, but they are for backup.
3) Build slowly and get a profitable small city. Then let your computer run ove
rnight and you'll be pleasantly surprised in the morning. True you populatio wo
n't grow. Before I went to sleep I had about 27,000 people generating about $1,
200 a year. I went to bed with about $2,000 in the bank. I woke up with $128,00
0 in the bank. So I spent some money, increased the populatio to about 33,000 a
nd yearly income to $1,400 and went to school. I'll be home later today to see
how it went.
4) I've finally installed a subway. Mega expensive, but, hey, I had the money.
:)
5) If you can afford it, get the Pollution ordinance. It really helps.
6) People will move to your city as long as employment is available. I've notic
ed that the best growth occurs if unemployment is down about 2 or 3%. They will
move in despite pollution and crime. At one point I had 37% of my population c
omplaining about pollution. Obviously, you can't let pollution get totally out
of hand (or crime). I zone mostly low density industrial with a few high densit
y here and there.
7) Don't have any rail or highways and I don't plan to build any. Get buses as
fast as you can, they really, really help. Then go subway. I tried a highway in
my other city and I didn't see any advantage of that over the subway. Plus, hi
ghways take more room and you can't zone right next to them like you can next t
o regular roads. Plus you need regular roads anyways and onramps. And they take
so much space and maintenance is high. It's just not worth it.
8) Try building around hills first. This can be a real pain. Unless you want to
use the terrain editor and flatten you terrain (like some others have done).
9) My life expentancy for 90 year olds is 65! In fact in my Populatio dialog bo
x showing the LE of my people at different ages, the graph is basically flat. K
ids have a LE of about 75 and it stays at about 65 throughout their life. Weird
! I've managed to get the EQ up to about 94. Not good, I admit. This is only hi
gh school level, but I'm working on it. Just need 1 more college and some more
libraries and stuff.
10) I didn't worry about leaving zones for bus/subway stations. When the time c
ame I just bulldozed the approporiate number of zones in the needed areas. Didn
't seem to affect growth much and traffic dropped in those areas.
Hope this helps those who are having problems like I was.
Thomas
Chad L. Miller
>Subject: SimCity 2000 and "winning"
>From: "Robert W. Jordan" <rj...@andrew.cmu.edu>
>Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 19:31:22 -0500
I laid out my city the way I wanted, or so I thought at the time. (You
always want to change it after awhile.) My only tricks were:
Never taking out a bond
Using HydroElectric power - not as cheap as coal, and you need
a hill (not a mountain) to put the waterfall on (I'm kinda
confused about the HE plants. I thought all power plants
gave out after 50 years. After 1000 years of doing nothing,
my city still has power. ????)
Keeping my cash flow positive once it got that way. About $100
to %400 a year really helps you improve a city.
Letting the crime and pollution stay up around 30 on the graph.
The Sims complain a lot, but in a small city, my demand on
RCI remains high. Too many police departments _kill_ revenue.
>Just my .02
>Rob Jordan
Thanks for the post. It's much more fun to share the intricacies of the
game with other 'enthusiasts' than just alone.
/----------------------------------------\
| Chad L. Miller | Systems Analyst |
| ch...@lilly.com | Eli Lilly and Company |
\----------------------------------------/
Chester Liu
Al Wilson <al_w...@cpqm.saic.com> wrote:
>In article <cweissCG...@netcom.com>, cwe...@netcom.com (Chris Weiss)
>wrote:
>>
>> Albatross (kjt...@dunix.drake.edu) wrote:
>> : One of the best things about it:
>>
>>
>> Albatross - From the entire testing department here at Maxis - THANKS! It's
>> comments like these that make the whole thing worth it for us :)
>
>Well, I found one _very_ little thing wrong last night and thought I'd
>bring it up since Maxis is listening. In the Neighbors map display, 2 of
>the neighboring cities had the same name. No big deal, just thought I'd
>mention it. It's only happened once in about 5 cities so far. Great Job
>MAXIS!!!
>
Another possible bug: I opened the 'Seven Spires' city that comes with
the game, and I noticed that when the sailboats go near the spires in
the most-zoomed-in mode, the screen doesn't redraw properly around those
sailboats. Sometimes, it'll fix itself, the the next sailboat would
put random brownish shapes around the sailboat again.
Rich 'mcmxciibo' Holmes
>Ack! This thing REQUIRES System 7?!!?! Being a original Mac II owner, I've
>been wary of the speed degradation Sys7 seems to cause but I'm tempted to
>upgrade just to play SC2K. Do y'all think it's worth it?
>
>Thanks for any input.
I find it a little difficult to get inside the head of anyone who's
still running Sys 6 on an original Mac II. Note I'm not saying there's
anything wrong with that -- nor am I unaware of the costs involved in
upgrading -- just that Sys 7 running on anything upwards of an LC III
is going to be faster, more capable, and more friendly and fun than
what you have now. IMHO, of course, and you know where you can direct
flames.
--
- Rich "mcmxciibo" Holmes
The first person to say something on this Net doesn't have a chance
(and it is usually me). -- John_-_Winston
N.B. Bast
I've found two bugs... neither is a killer...
In a city with only hydro power, I had about 200 hydro plants.
the query tool reported 65k plants with 65k output when I clicked on one
of the hydro plans...
in terrain editing mode, if you build a huge pyramid, it can
lock up the machine. (happened twice)
I have an 840AV with 16megs RAM. 2megs VRAM, but only playing
in 640x480 because I havn't gotten the machine to realize I have a 17"
monitor yet...
Noah
--
# Noah Bast (feel free to ignore me! :) | call: The Vanishing Point #
| Information Technology Undergrad at | Fido 1:2613/444 (716)889-3353 |
| Rochester Institute of Technology | 24 hours 16.8k Dual 550megs. |
#-------- they only let us have 4 lines of .signature... boo... ---------#
paul newman
(don't know for sure...) when you query a hydro plant it tells you how
many are in that 1 dam. so if you have all your hydro plants along the
same line (which you probably dont', am i right?) then it will say the #
of ALL OF THEM.
N.B. Bast
Of course it was reporting all of them, it does that even if
they're not connected. I was reporting that it said there were 65,000+
plants putting ut 65,000+ MWatts. I only had about 200 plants, and they
were certainly not putting out that much power.
New bugs...
Bridges are costing 2,782 per month even when there are NO
bridges! (not even elevated power lines)
City Hall analysis percentages aren't consistent. It's
reporting 3700acres (29%) for airports and seaports. There is no way
it's even close to this figure. The number of acres taken up by
Arcologies went DOWN after building more of them...
Airports are made of ONLY control towers... no rnuways or
anything else. There was one before, but we expanded the airport, and
it put up only control towers, so we blew it all up and rebuilt it. Now
there's an 8x10 rectangle of solid control towers there...
The milittary airport is almost solid runways, but no plane
traffic at all...
I already mentioned that it's crashed a few time in the terrain
editor while using the raise/lower tool. (the one you drag up and down)
This is in an 840AV with 16meg RAM...
paul newman
Hydro plants: I have NO idea....
Never had it crash in terrain editor either...
As w/ the airports, i used to have a nice airport AND a nice air-force
base, but then the airport lost it's runways and the military base lost
everything to a mass of runways.
weird
Babak Gohari
Yeah, I noticed this too, sort of. My city is getting up to 100k now, and
I decided, hey, why not build a new airport? My other one was on the other
side of the city, and pretty small. So, I built a HUGE airport (8x9, which
is quite expensive [$18,000]). Anyway, I hooked it up to the water and
power systems. I got something like 70 control towers and 2 radars! Huh?
I got kinda pissed, and bulldozed the entire thing. Then I got 71 control
towers and 1 radar! Has this anything to do with my airforce airbase?
Bob
Chris Weiss
: editor while using the raise/lower tool. (the one you drag up and down)
Are you sure it crashed? When using the "drag altitude" tool, each successive
decrease in altitude takes something like 4 times longer to calculate the
previous level, this can equal delays up to a minute or more on some machines.
(Of course, it could have genuinely crashed :)
N.B. Bast
It was on an 840AV... It crashed...
more bugs...
We (my roommate and I) got our city up to 8,000,000 people...
very few of the options when you shift-click building were available any
more. City hall lost the 'analysis' chart, we couldn't rename most police
stations/fire stations. Arcologies weren't reporting their
populations.
When we destroyed over half the roads in the city, the
maintenance cost for roads didn't go down. (yes, we checked on years
after we blew them up too) It would still try to charge us 2700 per
month for bridges several hundred years after the last bridge was
destroyed if we raised the maintenance percentage above 0%...
Chris Weiss
: We (my roommate and I) got our city up to 8,000,000 people...
: very few of the options when you shift-click building were available any
: more. City hall lost the 'analysis' chart, we couldn't rename most police
: stations/fire stations. Arcologies weren't reporting their
: populations.
The problem there is a memory issue. There is only enough memory for 150
"Microsimulators". These microsimulators are the engines that allow you to
see how many arrests are occuring in a given police station, how many beds
are in a specific hospital, what the response time of a specific fire station
is and such. It's pretty easy to hit that limit in a large city, so what
happens is SC2K creates objects that have no microsimulator attached. They
still affect the game (IE - Police stations still fight crime, arcologies still
add to the population, etc.). All of this is explained in the README 1st! file
(What do we have to do to get users to read this stuff?!)
: When we destroyed over half the roads in the city, the
: maintenance cost for roads didn't go down. (yes, we checked on years
: after we blew them up too) It would still try to charge us 2700 per
: month for bridges several hundred years after the last bridge was
: destroyed if we raised the maintenance percentage above 0%...
Sounds like a genuine bug. We've heard similar budget woes from a coupla
other users as well. We'll definetely check into it.
Christopher Barkley
|> add to the population, etc.). All of this is explained in the README 1st! file
|> (What do we have to do to get users to read this stuff?!)
How about build a self-decrypting file that contains the application? Hide the
key to decrypt it SOMEWHERE in the manual. Don't tell anyone where. Make them
read until they find it. Might work, anyway. Nah. The hackers would rather try
to break into the encrypted app than break down and read the manual.
Mage
--
Christopher Barkley The DarkMage
bar...@cse.ogi.edu Reality is a State of Mind
PGP Public Key Available
Roger M Kolaks
init diddling with the mancine while you are Simm200ing. I have played
the game for many hours now and have, as others have said previously,
found it to be amazingly clean software.
But then I don't run a lot of inits, do I? ;-)
I know this is a silly question to ask, but you havne't gone in and done
any diddling have you? I diddle a piece of software and forgot entirely
that I had and pretty soon it began to behave rudely too. Not that Im['
suggesting that you're a diddler :-> it's just that I am and in that part
of middle age where I forget things a lot. (How many people leive to be a
hundred (*sigh*)
...rmk
N.B. Bast
> I know this is a silly question to ask, but you havne't gone in and done
>any diddling have you? I diddle a piece of software and forgot entirely
not positive what you mean by 'diddling', but it's a standard
install of the original diskettes... No reseditting or anything weird...
I've only had the Mac a month, and am still learning new things about it
every day... (still have my 486/33 though :) )
David Wee
a> highways dont always face the right way when you connect them
to a neighboring city
b> newspaper headlines sometimes contradicts the story contained
c> mac will be hung when one places power lines in awkward
positions[especially on complex hills]
d> in the railway->sub depot, the train just sits halfway inside
e> when property tax is set to 0%, advisor will still say to lower
the tax
f> water piping systems sometimes do not flow, even though there is
a pipe, but manually adding a 'thick' pipe will let it flow
e> water systems do not take into account multiple pumps that all
flow into one[i.e. water pressure]
If you see anymore, add them to teh end of the list!
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|dd-wah ____ |fight! love! eat!| ____ gun-buster|
|~~~~~~~~\__|__|____|da...@qedbbs.com |__|__|__/~~~~~~~~~|
|BubbleGum Otaku Red October Wheres the lod now? hahahah |
|my goddess! Bridget Fonda Yah! R.E.M. NEXT Pearl Jam |
|!!!!!!!!!!!GO PHILLLIES!!!!!!!!!|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Apple. The power to be your best.
Brian Amira
>I noticed some bugs while playing SimCity 2000:
> a> highways dont always face the right way when you connect them
> to a neighboring city
> b> newspaper headlines sometimes contradicts the story contained
> c> mac will be hung when one places power lines in awkward
> positions[especially on complex hills]
> d> in the railway->sub depot, the train just sits halfway inside
> e> when property tax is set to 0%, advisor will still say to lower
> the tax
> f> water piping systems sometimes do not flow, even though there is
> a pipe, but manually adding a 'thick' pipe will let it flow
> e> water systems do not take into account multiple pumps that all
> flow into one[i.e. water pressure]
>
Reguarding e> water systems do not take into account multiple pumps that all
flow into one[i.e. water pressure]
I have consistantly proven this false when playing. If water pressure is
not strong enough to pump all the way to then end of my thick pipe I can
add a pump or two connected to the others and it will then pump water to
the end of the pipe.
Reguarding f>water piping systems sometimes do not flow, even though there is
a pipe, but manually adding a 'thick' pipe will let it flow
This is related to CPU speed. On a si I have seen this happen, but if you
leave the game in cheetha speed and watch the pipes, after a few secs it
will start flowing. When you build a thick pipe it forces the calculations
at that point right away and you thus see the water flow. On my 840AV,
this "problem" does not exist (except on very large cities), and even when
it does I just wait a few and it starts flowing.
I also have never had a crash or a hang.
--Brian
--
<|Brian M. Amira | Internet E-Mail: Br...@scs.unr.edu |>
<|----------------|------------------------------------|>
<|P.O. Box 8711 | University of Nevada, Reno Student |>
<|Reno, NV 89507 | Voice & Fax#: (702) 324-4337 |>
Great Cthulhu
>I find it a little difficult to get inside the head of anyone who's
>still running Sys 6 on an original Mac II. Note I'm not saying there's
>anything wrong with that -- nor am I unaware of the costs involved in
>upgrading -- just that Sys 7 running on anything upwards of an LC III
>is going to be faster, more capable, and more friendly and fun than
>what you have now. IMHO, of course, and you know where you can direct
>flames.
Well, when you realize that the Mac II has the same processor as the original
LC, you'll probably understand.
--
-Doug Gibson d...@wiffin.chem.ucla.edu
"I didn't like the way he was bleeding, so I made him stop."
-from Mutant League Football
stanley chin
> It sounds to me like you got either a flakey release or you have some
>init diddling with the mancine while you are Simm200ing. I have played
>the game for many hours now and have, as others have said previously,
>found it to be amazingly clean software.
Yes but...as noted elsewhere, there is a conflict with After Dark; I also
got it to crash by
opening up a different newspaper immediately after closing the old one.
Nonetheless, truly an amazing program.
-stanley chin
[THIS IS NOT A .SIG]
Brian T. La Rose
In article <93315.095...@uicvm.uic.edu> Thomas Shao
<U59...@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>Hi! Just wanted to let everyone know that I've finally started a successfull
ci
>ty. By successfull I mean, it's growing, I'm making money every year and I
didn
>'t take out any loans.
>
>I started at 1900 with $20,000. It's now the year 2170+, I have $80,000+ and
ab
>out 35,000 people. I've built every type of structure possible, except for
arco
>logies. And I'm generatinga bout $1,500 every year.
As of this time, I have... 1,643,000+ inhabitants, $18,500,000+, and at least
28 arcologies. (those numbers both increased while I was typing- population by
30,000 and money by $100,000+). I am making over $21k a year in surplus funds.
Most fun. Disasters are, of course, off. But I can do ANYTHING I want. I am
currently in a "replace everything with Arcologies" program...
And the cool thing is, the mayor of our city (our real city, Madison, WI) was
in here yesterday afternoon and saw it a tad smaller (just over a million
people with only about $2mil in surplus), and he loved it! He wants to help me
model Madison now...
>
>Some pointers for other that I have discovered.
...
>
>3) Build slowly and get a profitable small city. Then let your computer run
ove
>rnight and you'll be pleasantly surprised in the morning. True you populatio
wo
>n't grow. Before I went to sleep I had about 27,000 people generating about
$1,
>200 a year. I went to bed with about $2,000 in the bank. I woke up with
$128,00
>0 in the bank. So I spent some money, increased the populatio to about 33,000
a
>nd yearly income to $1,400 and went to school. I'll be home later today to see
>how it went.
>
Yep. Ran a city of 5k for about 10,000 years (the year counter breaks slightly
after that, and it shows the wrong date on top and on the newspapers) which
took all weekend. Came back and had 1.4 million. Then started to go nuts. We
started the city using Hydro power so we wouldn't have the pollution and
replacement problems. We did have to modify the city a bit in the beginning
(like putting the falls in our river) to get them to work, but it was worth it
to start.
My hint: NEVER, EVER take out a bond. Start small, grow. If the citizens demand
something, they can wait. You'll never get out of deep debt. Maybe a single
bond, but not several.
>
>7) Don't have any rail or highways and I don't plan to build any. Get buses as
>fast as you can, they really, really help. Then go subway. I tried a highway
in
> my other city and I didn't see any advantage of that over the subway. Plus,
hi
>ghways take more room and you can't zone right next to them like you can next
t
>o regular roads. Plus you need regular roads anyways and onramps. And they
take
> so much space and maintenance is high. It's just not worth it.
>
I agree. Every hiway I have ever built is just a traffic magnet. So I have but
one as a high-capacity bridge, an I use busses extensively and subways as a
suppliment. I have one tunnel (an experiment).
Of course, now I can afford the good stuff. I have over 100 water pumps, about
20 towers, six de-sal plants, three stadiums, a crime rate under 20%, IQ over
110, and I had to start reclaiming that ocean with land... not completely, of
course. And there are very few hills left, and what hills there are are even,
smooth plateaus...
Cool things I have seen... the Llama dome (90,000 people) is interesting. The
"Darco" arcology looks neat, but it took a while to fill. I could fill two
"Launch" arcologies in the same time, and they have more people. And shooting
down the helicopter is great sport. I have probably done 20 or so in on this
city alone...... >:)
/-------------------------------+---------------------------------------\
Brian T. La Rose | "Don't Place Faith in Human Beings,
American/MicroAge-Madison, Wi | Human Beings are Unreliable Things."
American Tech Assistance Center | -Machines of Loving Grace
bla...@amtvtec.fullfeed.com +----------------------------------------
My Opinions! All Mine! | Spam! It's Premium Pork and Ham!
Chuck Shotton
T. La Rose) wrote:
> "Launch" arcologies in the same time, and they have more people. And shooting
> down the helicopter is great sport. I have probably done 20 or so in on this
> city alone...... >:)
How does one shoot down the helicopter?
Chris
-Chris (cal...@math.utah.edu)
Stephen Fenwick
>rsho...@mothra.syr.EDU (Rich 'mcmxciibo' Holmes) writes:
>>I find it a little difficult to get inside the head of anyone who's
>>still running Sys 6 on an original Mac II. Note I'm not saying there's
>>anything wrong with that -- nor am I unaware of the costs involved in
>>upgrading -- just that Sys 7 running on anything upwards of an LC III
>>is going to be faster, more capable, and more friendly and fun than
>>what you have now. IMHO, of course, and you know where you can direct
>>flames.
>Well, when you realize that the Mac II has the same processor as the original
>LC, you'll probably understand.
Two problems with System 7:
1) It takes *much* longer to reboot after a bomb (say, when one's new project
in Think C crashes past TC's debugger and MacBugs :( ) In developing
new programs, this can (unfortunately) become a large part of one's day :(:(
2) Pirates! will run on a Mac II, but only under System 5.
Steve
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Fenwick w0...@netcom.com, w0...@aol.com, fen...@clipper.ingr.com
David Smith
>In article <12...@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> d...@chem.ucla.edu (Great Cthulhu) writes:
>>rsho...@mothra.syr.EDU (Rich 'mcmxciibo' Holmes) writes:
>>>I find it a little difficult to get inside the head of anyone who's
>>>still running Sys 6 on an original Mac II. Note I'm not saying there's
>>LC, you'll probably understand.
Yes, and doesn't the ORignal II need hardware to use Sys 7, since doesn't have
a superdrive or PPMU.
>Two problems with System 7:
>2) Pirates! will run on a Mac II, but only under System 5.
Huh, I have run Pirates! on an Orignal II with 6.0.8 and on my IIsi under 7.0.1
I have a version that hasn't been upgraded (If there have been any) in over
3 years.
--
-------------------------
David A. Smith | These opinions are mine and do not reflect
- das...@suntan.ec.usf.edu | those of the University of South Florida.
- smi...@eggo.csee.usf.edu | Copyright 1993, David A. Smith.
Unknown
writes:
> a hill (not a mountain) to put the waterfall on (I'm kinda
> confused about the HE plants. I thought all power plants
> gave out after 50 years. After 1000 years of doing nothing,
> my city still has power. ????)
If you have enough $$$ and No Disasters turned on, SC2K automatically
rebuilds power plants and takes the money from you every 50 years.
--Adam
Unknown
> Yes but...as noted elsewhere, there is a conflict with After Dark;
You need more RAM is what this means. AD needs RAM to run; if you
have a 4-5 meg system with lots of INITs, SC2K may use up all of the
remaining RAM on your Mac. I have used Connectix Virtual for Virtual
Memory and the After Dark problem goes away... and the game barely slows
down... I'd definitely reccomend using virtual memory or getting more
RAM and if it still crashes...I don't know.
--Adam
Philip Gross (philbo)
apple 300i? I got static up the wazoo, and the only way to stop it
was to restart the machine. It's possible that this is not a real bug,
as I only tried it once (I'll try it again later), but I'm pretty sure
that everything else was copacetic. I have a IIvx, with sys 7.1, 8
megs ram, and the newest sound manager...
Guesses, anyone?
---
Philbo was his name. And yea, they did call to him, with their
questions and their arcane greetings. Sometimes, he even would reply.
Those of the east, knew him as phi...@turing.pacss.binghamton.edu
And those of the west, in their way, knew him as phi...@soda.berkeley.edu
And, children, they say that he is there even now, listening, waiting.
Marc Wilhite
: waste a lot of money on old people.
Im glad you not the mayor of my city! :-)
Thomas W. Davie
>--Adam
I've had SimCity 2000 for 4 days now. Played it on a 10 meg LC2,
and a 4 meg LC475( plus 4 megs virtual ram ). Hasn't crashed on either
machine. Runs happily in the background on the '475 with virtual ram
though. There doesn't seem to be too much disk access.
Tom
Peter Berck
|>
|> I've had SimCity 2000 for 4 days now. Played it on a 10 meg LC2,
|> and a 4 meg LC475( plus 4 megs virtual ram ). Hasn't crashed on either
|> machine. Runs happily in the background on the '475 with virtual ram
|> though. There doesn't seem to be too much disk access.
|>
|>
|> Tom
|>
Did anyone try the game on a original LC with 4 M of RAM? I am
thinking of buying the game, but I seem to have the minimum
configuration that is supported, and I wonder if it is really
playable.
Thanx
--
-Peter (Keeper of the Divina Commedia)
------------------------------------------------------------------
P.J....@kub.nl
(format t "~&~{~<~%~1:;~a~>~^,~}.~%"
'(DoD#-337 cx-500 The-Ex Sonic-Youth Dante-Alighieri Guinness))
Thomas W. Davie
>In article <CGtz2...@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, tda...@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Thomas W. Davie) writes:
>|>
>|> I've had SimCity 2000 for 4 days now. Played it on a 10 meg LC2,
>|> and a 4 meg LC475( plus 4 megs virtual ram ). Hasn't crashed on either
>|> machine. Runs happily in the background on the '475 with virtual ram
>|> though. There doesn't seem to be too much disk access.
>|>
>|>
>|> Tom
>|>
>Did anyone try the game on a original LC with 4 M of RAM? I am
>thinking of buying the game, but I seem to have the minimum
>configuration that is supported, and I wonder if it is really
>playable.
>Thanx
I yanked the 'extra' ram out of the LC2, and then tried playing it
on a system with only extensions manager, and softwarefpu installed. It
works nicely. Yup, it is playable. My friend who has my LC2( and this
isn't any faster than an LC1 )can attest to lodsing much sleep over this game
Tom
Douglas Rand
Hydro and wind don't wear out. You'll notice that the dialog
you get from querying them has no "n years of 50 years" in it.
--
Douglas S. Rand <dr...@osf.org> OSF/Motif Dev.
Snail: 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA 02142
Disclaimer: I don't know if OSF agrees with me... let's vote on it.
Amateur Radio: KC1KJ
Unknown
> In article <1993Nov19.2...@tigger.jvnc.net> Adam Gordon >
(74375...@compuserve.com) writes:
> If you have enough $$$ and No Disasters turned on, SC2K >
automatically
> rebuilds power plants and takes the money from you every 50 years.
>
> Hydro and wind don't wear out. You'll notice that the dialog
> you get from querying them has no "n years of 50 years" in it.
Excellent. Thanks for the info, Doug. What I said still applies for
every other kind of power plant. BTW, there is no way to get
hydroelectric without "cheating" by editing the map... purists take
note.
--Adam
Unknown
(74375...@compuserve.com) writes:
> If you have enough $$$ and No Disasters turned on, SC2K >
automatically
> rebuilds power plants and takes the money from you every 50 years.
>
> Hydro and wind don't wear out. You'll notice that the dialog
> you get from querying them has no "n years of 50 years" in it.
Excellent. Thanks for the info, Doug. What I said still applies for
Jagwire X
phi...@soda.berkeley.edu (Philip Gross (philbo)) writes:
> Has anyone tried to play sc2k while listening to an audio CD on a
> apple 300i? I got static up the wazoo, and the only way to stop it
> was to restart the machine. It's possible that this is not a real bug,
> as I only tried it once (I'll try it again later), but I'm pretty sure
> that everything else was copacetic. I have a IIvx, with sys 7.1, 8
> megs ram, and the newest sound manager...
>
> Guesses, anyone?
Well, I haven't tried listening to an audio CD while playing SC2K
but I do run a BBS and while I tried to run the BBS in the background
and play SC2K it started up gave me a message saying something to the
effect "Sorry some other application is using sound. Please quit the
application and try again." after which it promptly quit. I suspect
that they are using some sort of syncronous sound management routine
which prevents other sounds from playing through the Mac properly.
I'll experiment and see what I can find out.
-----
Jagwire X .....no...... public key
jag...@io.com ...because... available upon
dzap...@emx.cc.utexas.edu ....later.... request
---------------------------------------------------------------------
CyberSpace Institute BBS 'Adapt, Adopt and Improvise' +1.512.206.0175
Peter Rigsbee
In article <2clsvm$2...@agate.berkeley.edu>, phi...@soda.berkeley.edu (Philip Gross (philbo)) writes:
> Has anyone tried to play sc2k while listening to an audio CD on a
> apple 300i? I got static up the wazoo, and the only way to stop it
> was to restart the machine. It's possible that this is not a real bug,
> as I only tried it once (I'll try it again later), but I'm pretty sure
> that everything else was copacetic. I have a IIvx, with sys 7.1, 8
> megs ram, and the newest sound manager...
>
> Guesses, anyone?
I had several problems similar to this.
I got a new CD (Apple 300 external) just before I got sc2k. When I would
start sc2k, it would complain that something else was using the sound, and
quit, even though the CD-ROM drive was idle. This wasn't consistent --
once in awhile it would start OK. But then the program would then hang
occasionally and I'd have to kill it and start over.
I then started running sc2k only after restarting with no extensions, and
not only haven't seen the message about the sound being used, but have
also avoided seeing any more hangs.
I never actually tried running it with the CD-ROM active (such as playing
a CD) but it wouldn't surprise me that the symptoms were different. I'm
kind of surprised you didn't see it complain about the sound being used
by something else, but given that I got the complaint when the drive was
idle, it makes sense (in a twisted way) that you wouldn't! ;-(
I'm using system 7.1, too.
- Peter Rigsbee
Tim Moore
In article <1993Nov22....@tigger.jvnc.net>, Adam Gordon (74375...@compuserve.com) writes:
> Excellent. Thanks for the info, Doug. What I said still applies for
> every other kind of power plant. BTW, there is no way to get
> hydroelectric without "cheating" by editing the map... purists take
> note.
Uh, are you claiming that waterfalls don't appear in game-generated
maps? There are 2 or 3 in a game I'm playing right now. Now, I didn't
actually build hydro plants on them, because they would have been
redundant by the time I found them. Are you saying that something's
wrong with "natural" waterfalls?
--
Tim Moore mo...@cs.utah.edu {bellcore,hplabs}!utah-cs!moore
"Wind in my hair - Shifting and drifting - Mechanical music - Adrenaline surge"
- Rush
David Smith
No, this isn't true, In normal play you can add trees and water for a price
($100 for water, per square) This isn't "Cheating" It is just like zoning, you
pay for it. You can add this water to the sides of hills and put hydro power
on them. I do this, and I feel that it is 'pure' just like adding parks
or something.
I build them as I get money, I start with a coal or oil plant and before 50
years I usually have enought hydor power (or wind) to not need to rebuild.
Michael Sinsabaugh
>
>
> Excellent. Thanks for the info, Doug. What I said still applies for
> every other kind of power plant. BTW, there is no way to get
> hydroelectric without "cheating" by editing the map... purists take
> note.
>
> --Adam
As you have to pay for adding water I don't think of it as cheating. After
all, in a real city you can drill for water etc. Same applies for using
the bulldozer to raise or lower the ground.
MacMike
William Richard Jr Russell
Michael Sinsabaugh <msins...@pbs.org> wrote:
+> Excellent. Thanks for the info, Doug. What I said still applies for
+> every other kind of power plant. BTW, there is no way to get
+> hydroelectric without "cheating" by editing the map... purists take
+> note.
+As you have to pay for adding water I don't think of it as cheating. After
+all, in a real city you can drill for water etc. Same applies for using
+the bulldozer to raise or lower the ground.
Still, though, this is a rather cheesy solution. I like hydroelectric,
and I'm glad there's some option for it in the game, but I really
think that "adding water" (via whatever means) to make a waterfall for
the hydro plants makes no sense (from a civil engineering standpoint).
I mean, where does the water go? Where does it come from? Even if you
had a very high-pressure artesian well, you still wouldn't have enough
pressure to get substantial energy from it, I suspect, and the water
would still have to go somewhere when it reached the bottom of the
hill.
I wish that hydroelectric had been presented more realistically. Set
up a "flow" direction for rivers and streams, and put the
hydroelectric in like a bridge, possibly resulting in flooding behind
the dam. Given the large investment in water managment they've already
made, it doesn't seem like too difficult a job.
Of course, what's done is done :-)
--
* Rick Russell rick-r...@tamu.edu
* Fictional FBI/SS catchline: Yes, the mutant communists are ready to
* bomb the city and assassinate the President. The mind-altering drugs
* have been delivered. Inform Saddam Hussein and Fidel Castro.
Douglas Rand
|> Still, though, this is a rather cheesy solution. I like hydroelectric,
|> and I'm glad there's some option for it in the game, but I really
|> think that "adding water" (via whatever means) to make a waterfall for
|> the hydro plants makes no sense (from a civil engineering standpoint).
|>
|> I mean, where does the water go? Where does it come from? Even if you
|> had a very high-pressure artesian well, you still wouldn't have enough
|> pressure to get substantial energy from it, I suspect, and the water
|> would still have to go somewhere when it reached the bottom of the
|> hill.
|>
|> I wish that hydroelectric had been presented more realistically. Set
|> up a "flow" direction for rivers and streams, and put the
|> hydroelectric in like a bridge, possibly resulting in flooding behind
|> the dam. Given the large investment in water managment they've already
|> made, it doesn't seem like too difficult a job.
|>
|> Of course, what's done is done :-)
Look at it this way.
In real life, power plants can be miles, even hundreds of miles
from the consumers of power and hydro plants can be placed in
the distance. But in the game, we have a very limited short
range map, so power has to be local, and there is no power
grid to tie into.
In real life, people don't limit their commutes to a few minutes
(the effective commuting time in SimCity), but we're playing a
game developing a city, not a metropolitan area simulation with
bedroom communities.
You can go on and on about the differences between real life and
a simulation. The fun in a game like SimCity or the new SC2000,
is understanding the parameters and playing with the simulation.
At the point where the attempts are all cookbook, and discoveries
aren't being made, well thats when you find a buyer for the
game, or re-examine your goals.
Personally, since I can devote only a small amount of time, I haven't
gotten a population over 20K. So I have alot of discovery to do and
can savor each new thing.
Unknown
> Uh, are you claiming that waterfalls don't appear in game-generated
> maps? There are 2 or 3 in a game I'm playing right now. Now, I >
didn't
> actually build hydro plants on them, because they would have been
> redundant by the time I found them. Are you saying that something's
> wrong with "natural" waterfalls?
I've never seen a "natural" waterfall. Have you changed the percentages
of water:trees:hills? Are you referring to the edge of the screen (not
really waterfalls)? Or what?
Maybe our friends at Maxis can help us here...
--Adam
Unknown
> No, this isn't true, In normal play you can add trees and water for a
> price
> ($100 for water, per square) This isn't "Cheating" It is just like >
zoning, you
> pay for it. You can add this water to the sides of hills and put >
hydro power
> on them. I do this, and I feel that it is 'pure' just like adding >
parks
> or something.
Yes, it is "pure" in my opinion... I never thought of that. To tell you
the truth, I'm really not a "purist." So I edit my maps anyway for
hydroelectric power before I start the game. My favorite part about
SimCity is building a nice-looking city, not using budgeting features,
etc.
--Adam
paul newman
you place them? Such as on a mountain or what?
Otherwise it's just done by the weather, right?
And has anyone ever had a microwave plant miss-shoot the beam?
jim denton spot esc1-441
I consider myself a purist in the sense of not pre-editing the 'naturally'-
generated map. However, I can add waterfalls during the game by choosing
the water tool and spending $100 to put water on a slope. Viola ! A waterfall!
Also, terrain can be raised and lowered with the bulldozer and enough money.
I also think that the generated map uses your percentages set in the terrain-
editing mode as far as forest, mountain, and water percentage (the 3 sliders),
so my natural terrain can be close to what I like.
Jim Denton
William Richard Jr Russell
Douglas Rand <dr...@spinner.osf.org> wrote:
+In article <2ctgv0$f...@TAMUTS.TAMU.EDU>, wrr...@TAMUTS.TAMU.EDU (William Richard Jr Russell) writes:
+In real life, power plants can be miles, even hundreds of miles
+from the consumers of power and hydro plants can be placed in
+the distance. But in the game, we have a very limited short
+range map, so power has to be local, and there is no power
+grid to tie into.
+In real life, people don't limit their commutes to a few minutes
+(the effective commuting time in SimCity), but we're playing a
+game developing a city, not a metropolitan area simulation with
+bedroom communities.
Yes, but these are only errors of magnitude, not errors of concept.
Sure, compression of distances and stuff is necessary; there's no
other sensible way to do it. There are vastly more sensible ways to do
hydroelectric, given some thought. It should certainly be possible to
come up with some scenario that doesn't fly in the face of common
sense.
I do wish the travel distance was extended, because then it would be
possible to develop genuine "downtown" areas, with only commercial and
very few high-density residential areas, and some 'burbs.
+You can go on and on about the differences between real life and
+a simulation. The fun in a game like SimCity or the new SC2000,
+is understanding the parameters and playing with the simulation.
+At the point where the attempts are all cookbook, and discoveries
+aren't being made, well thats when you find a buyer for the
+game, or re-examine your goals.
Well, the whole "point" of a simulation is to simulate something real.
It's no fun to fly a flight simulator that doesn't behave like a an
airplane, if simulating an airplane is what you want to do.
Still, SC2000 is a very nice piece of work, and I'd certainly give it
a 10 out of 10 (I gave the original SimCity a 9 out of 10, so it would
be hard to justify any other rating for SC2000).
Eric Perlman
II (after getting the DD disks <cheaply made> from maxis) and it's over
200 times slower. How do all of you with LCs take the slowness in
SimCity2000?
--
Eric Perlman
Thomas Bohmbach, Jr.
(Eric Perlman) wrote:
I guess we just don't know how fast it can go (but we can imagine).
========================================================================
| Thomas Bohmbach, Jr. | And what is good Phaedrus-- |
| bo...@maroon.tc.umn.edu | And what is not good? |
| University of Minnesota | Do we need anyone to tell us these things? |
| Computer Science | - Robert Pirsig |
========================================================================
J. Taggart Gorman
>And has anyone ever had a microwave plant miss-shoot the beam?
Finally had it happen.
I had just saved up 56,000 dollars(?) and built a microwave plant to replace
the aging coal plant that my growing city had out-paced...
14 years later, I'm over on the south side of town terraforming (okay, I was
raising terrain out of the lake that surrounds my city with the really high
sea level) and I hear a _big_ explosion. NEWS FLASH! Microwave beam missed
dish! I zoom over to the power plant, and it is completely surrounded by
flames. The beam missed the plant, but it was surround by flames. The fire
departments of Lake City battled the flames bravely, but with a tremendous
roar, a giant explosion leveled the entire power plant, and Lake City was out
28,000 dollars.
Luckily I _always_ leave the cost of my power plant in the bank, so I was
able to immediately rebuild another microwave plant. Sure, I was asking for
it to happen again, but nothing has happened in the last 70 years.
One other note - when you shoot down the traffic 'copter, make sure it's not
over your city - it _will_ crash and burn. ("Traffic? BANG!" (Shoots down
'copter) " I don't see no traffic!" :)
Henri H. Arsenault
new...@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (paul newman) wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if Wind Power plants work any better depending on where
> you place them? Such as on a mountain or what?
I saw somewhere (in the book I think) that the higher you place windmills,
the more effective they are.
Henri H. Arsenault
ars...@phy.ulaval.ca
Tim Moore
No. No.
They're real waterfalls. I've since built dams on them. It's
possible that I accidently created them with "add water" or something,
but they are off in a corner of the map, so that doesn't seem likely.
Peter Kovacs
>> If you have enough $$$ and No Disasters turned on, SC2K >
>automatically
>> rebuilds power plants and takes the money from you every 50 years.
>>
>> Hydro and wind don't wear out. You'll notice that the dialog
>> you get from querying them has no "n years of 50 years" in it.
>
>Excellent. Thanks for the info, Doug. What I said still applies for
>every other kind of power plant. BTW, there is no way to get
>hydroelectric without "cheating" by editing the map... purists take
>note.
This is completely untrue...It's just not very common. I started a city last
night which had a waterfall, several of them infact and I did not edit the
map at all.
--
Peter Kovacs
kov...@vader.egr.uri.edu
South County, Rhode Island
Mo_Ch...@fc.babylon.montreal.qc.ca
In real life I think windmills would work better on hills though Sim City 2000
is the least bit real! It doesnt cost 20$ to make one patch of road! it costs
like 5000$!? And a powerplant 15,000 hah! More like 4 million... I hope
Graphics Simulation does a City simulator once they finnish A-10 (tank
simulator) and rumored submarine simulator. I think GSC would do a much better
job at making a Sim City type game...
MC
kr...@antioch.edu
> Otherwise it's just done by the weather, right?
>
I don't know if it mis-shot the beam, but I had a microwave plant explode
into a firey inferno that claimed half of my medium sized (pop. 400,000)
city. I'm sticking with fusion to power the inside of my city and wind
(for now) to power the outside.
If you have an airport built, and you demolish it and build a new one, will
it develop? My airport is currently surrounded by arcologies and planes keep
crashing into them. I figure it's cheaper to build an airport than arcos,
so can anyone answer this?
Backlash
>every other kind of power plant. BTW, there is no way to get
>hydroelectric without "cheating" by editing the map... purists take
>note.
I don't consider it cheating to pay $100 to add water to a slope square and
make a waterfall. Whatever you can do with the tools available during the game
isn't cheating. Now using the terrain editor is another matter...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Wes Gilpin | I'd kill myself for you...I'd kill you for myself |
| WWG2101@TAMZEUS(BITNet) |------------------------------------------ |
| WWG...@ZEUS.TAMU.EDU | Southwest Knights of Nee Paintball Team | PANTERA |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Howard Berkey
>like 5000$!? And a powerplant 15,000 hah! More like 4 million... I hope
>Graphics Simulation does a City simulator once they finnish A-10 (tank
>simulator) and rumored submarine simulator. I think GSC would do a much better
>job at making a Sim City type game...
>
A-10 isn't a tank simulator, nor is it being made by GSC.
A-10 is a simulator of the air force's A-10 ground attack aircraft,
being written by Eric Parker (the author of Hellcats) and to be
marketed by his company (ParSoft?).
-H-
--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey how...@netcom.com
nature doesn't make foolish laws
...........................................................................
J. Hardy
>Well:
>MC
Oh jeez, how inane. So whose currency should Maxis use so that the simulation
is realistic? Lots of currencies use the $ symbol, so we can't complain
that the sims don't use canadian dollars, Canada certainly has no monopoly
on the $ sign. Oh, and what year should that be indexed to? Are 1993 $s the
"real" $s? Or was 1960 the height of reality in the currency world? Or
are you going to whine whenever the simulation doesn't exactly match the
precise cost of something in whatever currency *you* happen to use, whenever
*you* happen to use it.
Maxis set up a currency for the sims, it's not a real world currency. I think
this is the right move, it avoids the problem of deciding whose currency to
use. Now I suppose they could have tried to model inflation, but really, as
a mayor theres not a lot you can do about inflation. Since both costs and
income should rise with inflation, I don't see it as having a drastic effect
for the mayor of a city. The general state of the economy does have an effect
and this is modelled in the game, but there would really be no point in
having the price of a hydro power plant rise throughout the game if there were
just going to be a concommitant rise in income.
So given that we don't see inflation, as such, in the game, and given that
there's absolutely no pretense that the sims are using some particular
nation's currency indexed to some particular year, I don't see where your
complaint is anything more than an expression of your own inability to see
past the pathetically narrow box of your own experience. If the ratios of
costs were way off in the game (say if a fusion plant cost $5 while zoning
light residential cost $500) then that would be a problem. But that the
sims dont use exactly the same notation for expressing costs that happens to
be en courant in your neck of space-time is no objection at all.
jim hardy
jhh...@indiana.edu
Mo_Ch...@fc.babylon.montreal.qc.ca
who did Hellcats had great graphics, are you sure A-10 isn't a tank simulator?
If it isn't then what kind of ground attack vehicules will they simulate?
MC
Howard Berkey
The USAF A-10 "Warthog" ground attack fighter. Basically a pilot sitting in a
titanium bathtub strapped to a flying tank. :-)
You escort two of them in one of the F-18 missions. (High Flyer)
-H-
--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey how...@netcom.com
Why isn't phonetic spelled the way it sounds?
...........................................................................
Mo_Ch...@fc.babylon.montreal.qc.ca
But I was expecting something as realistic as F/A-18.
Though Sim City 2000 is MUCH better then the old Sim Cities. There isn't much
to complain about in this game except for some funny minor bugs. For some
reason on my LC III It looks like the game freezes up because there are to
many calculations to do with the game. Then the palette inverses the colors
and quits. Weird.
MC
Michael Sinsabaugh
Speaking of airports and arcos... I read here (I forget who) that the squat
dark arco (I forget the name) will absorb being hit by a plane with no
problem.
Once I got arcos (for the first time this weekend) I thought I would put it
to the test. I took out one of my light resedential areas and put the arco
there (near my airport). Along cam a plane... and it can't land! It just
flies
back and forth next to the arco. It's been doing this for about 200 years.
MacMike
David P. Brockington
>In article <1993Nov24....@antioch.edu>, kr...@antioch.edu wrote:
>>
>> If you have an airport built, and you demolish it and build a new one, will
>> it develop?My airport is currently surrounded by arcologies and planes keep
>> crashing into them. I figure it's cheaper to build an airport than arcos,
>> so can anyone answer this?
I needed to move my airport at one point, so I cleared out a nice
chunk of land jutting way out into the ocean, spent > $50K in zoning the new
airport, and furnished it with all the necessary infrastructure. It worked
fine, and when it was built up enough, I destroyed the old airport. Of course,
rumor has it that if you have a military base established after your original
airport, any new airport you construct following the placement of the
military base will yield nothing more than a sundry collection of control
towers -- rather useless.
>Speaking of airports and arcos... I read here (I forget who) that the squat
>dark arco (I forget the name) will absorb being hit by a plane with no
>problem.
Plymouth Arcos. Moderately ugly, but easily the best price/population
performance of any of the arcos.
>Once I got arcos (for the first time this weekend) I thought I would put it
>to the test. I took out one of my light resedential areas and put the arco
>there (near my airport). Along cam a plane... and it can't land! It just
>flies
>back and forth next to the arco. It's been doing this for about 200 years.
Unlike the advertising claims the Plymouth people make, I have found
that arcology design to be highly vulnerable to most disasters, especially
earthquakes and hurricanes. I had a quake knock down over half of my
Plymouths, and a hurricane destroyed all the Plymouths on the coast. However,
the quake didn't affect my collection of Launch Arcos, Forest Arcos, nor
my single Darco. The hurricane didn't hurt the lone Launch Arco that is
near the ocean. I did have an earthquake-related fire destroy a Launch Arco,
however. Bummer, dude.
David P. Brockington
bron...@u.washington.edu
Brian S. Lev
>In article <1993Nov24....@antioch.edu>, kr...@antioch.edu wrote:
>
>Speaking of airports and arcos... I read here (I forget who) that the squat
>dark arco (I forget the name) will absorb being hit by a plane with no
>problem.
No arcos yet, but I once had a firehouse (right at the end of a runway!)
that got smacked into about once every 2-3 minutes without EVER showing
any damage...
>Once I got arcos (for the first time this weekend) I thought I would put it
>to the test. I took out one of my light resedential areas and put the arco
>there (near my airport). Along cam a plane... and it can't land! It just
>flies
>back and forth next to the arco. It's been doing this for about 200 years.
Must be one of those nuclear-powered bombers they were desigining on paper
back in the 1960s... :-)
-- Brian
Eric Perlman
bron...@stein3.u.washington.edu (David P. Brockington) writes:
> Of course,
> rumor has it that if you have a military base established after your original
> airport, any new airport you construct following the placement of the
> military base will yield nothing more than a sundry collection of control
> towers -- rather useless
It's never happened to me, but I only had a military base in 1 game...
--
Eric Perlman
Greg Vaughan
jde...@spot.wrc.xerox.com (jim denton spot esc1-441) wrote:
> I consider myself a purist in the sense of not pre-editing the 'naturally'-
> generated map. However, I can add waterfalls during the game by choosing
> the water tool and spending $100 to put water on a slope. Viola ! A waterfall!
> Also, terrain can be raised and lowered with the bulldozer and enough money.
> I also think that the generated map uses your percentages set in the terrain-
> editing mode as far as forest, mountain, and water percentage (the 3 sliders),
> so my natural terrain can be close to what I like.
I don't know, to me it feels more pure to add a waterfall in terrain
editing mode than add one during the gameplay. Sure you pay money for it,
but it just doesn't feel realistic to be able to add a waterfall during the
game. Obviously, since SimCity is by definition a limited simulation you
can always bend things in a very unatural way during gameplay, but is this
more _honest_ than editing the terrain? I never liked building cities with
only rail in the old SimCity either.
dann cutter
GREG.V...@applelink.apple.com (Greg Vaughan) wrote:
>
> I don't know, to me it feels more pure to add a waterfall in terrain
> editing mode than add one during the gameplay. Sure you pay money for it,
> but it just doesn't feel realistic to be able to add a waterfall during the
> game. Obviously, since SimCity is by definition a limited simulation you
> can always bend things in a very unatural way during gameplay, but is this
> more _honest_ than editing the terrain? I never liked building cities with
> only rail in the old SimCity either.
Actually have you noticed that fire won't cross water. It make a few of the
Senarios blindingly easy. I mean Oakland was finished before I said boo!
_______________________________________________________________
Dann Cutter Stellar EnterprisesŞ / dcu...@oregon.uoregon.edu
Il Oh
: that arcology design to be highly vulnerable to most disasters, especially
: earthquakes and hurricanes. I had a quake knock down over half of my
: Plymouths, and a hurricane destroyed all the Plymouths on the coast. However,
: the quake didn't affect my collection of Launch Arcos, Forest Arcos, nor
: my single Darco. The hurricane didn't hurt the lone Launch Arco that is
: near the ocean. I did have an earthquake-related fire destroy a Launch Arco,
: however. Bummer, dude.
On the subject of arcologies, what's the deal with power? The information on
them said that the power is internally supplied. When I placed one, it flashed
the power symbol until I tied it into the city power grid.
I also had a huge hike in crime in the vicinity of that single arco, even
though I put the police station right next to it.
Rich 'mcmxciibo' Holmes
>Once I got arcos (for the first time this weekend) I thought I would put it
>to the test. I took out one of my light resedential areas and put the arco
>there (near my airport). Along cam a plane... and it can't land! It just
>flies
>back and forth next to the arco. It's been doing this for about 200 years.
"We apologize for any inconvenience, and we will be around shortly
with another beverage service..." Did this remind anyone else of _The
Restaurant at the End of the Universe_?
--
- Rich "mcmxciibo" Holmes
The first person to say something on this Net doesn't have a chance
(and it is usually me). -- John_-_Winston
Michael James Antonelli
Rich '. Hol...@mothra.sy
>>would put it to the test. I took out one of my light resedential
>>areas and put the arco there (near my airport). Along cam a
>>plane... and it can't land! It just flies back and forth next
>>to the arco. It's been doing this for about 200 years.
>
> "We apologize for any inconvenience, and we will be around shortly
> with another beverage service..." Did this remind anyone else of _The
> Restaurant at the End of the Universe_?
>
Yeah, now that you mention it. Something about lemon-soaked napkins?
The solution to the problem of the plane is this :
A) Bulldoze the arcology. :>
or
B) Bulldoze the airport so that it rebuilds with the runway in another
area (iow running perpendicular to its original path)
BTW : This is not freshman english. I ain't gonna stand fer nun of dat
grammar corectin'. So dere!. <Hmmmph....>
Later all...
Mad Luigi
"Thanks, that'll be all for now, other than to say 'Hi!' to Wonko if
he's watching."
Adam Nash
Hi! I'm the guy whose airport now only fills with towers, even when I
demolish it. It is 15x15, I don't think size is the problem. But
I do have an AIRFORCE BASE! My old airport was fine, but everything
built since comes up only control towers!!!
Cool.
Adam
Dan Ross
>(Eric Perlman) wrote:
>> SimCity2k runs very smoothly on my 840av. However I tried it on my Mac
>> II (after getting the DD disks <cheaply made> from maxis) and it's over
>> 200 times slower. How do all of you with LCs take the slowness in
>> SimCity2000?
Bad example here--but I bought an LC 475 to supplement my Classic II and
allow me to play SC 2000--and it runs just fine :-).
(An LC 475 = Performa 475/476 = Quadra 605: 25 Mhz 68LC040.)
Dan
C. Spencer Yeh
Does anyone out there know how to embezzle funds in SimCity 2000 for the
Mac?
Please e-mail any replies.
Thanks very much in advance.
--
"...someday there'll be a cure for pain and
that's the day i throw my drugs away...
...i propose a toast to my self-control
see it crawling helplessly on the floor..."
C. Spencer Yeh
y...@merle.acns.nwu.edu
C. Spencer Yeh
(C. Spencer Yeh) wrote:
> (This might've been asked before, but...)
> Does anyone out there know how to embezzle funds in SimCity 2000 for the
> Mac?
> Please e-mail any replies.
>
> Thanks very much in advance.
O.K., I got the "ardo" secret... Thank you much for the help. Now, is
there a budding FAQ for this most wonderful game?
Jon S. Akhtar
Yeah, well I have a seaport that only fills with warehouses!
Jon S. Akhtar
jak...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
Miles Parker Mac Consulting/4D Developme
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc., Ellicott City, MD USA
Distribution: world
Did the same thing-just drew water around the fire. In a way, this didn't
seem anymore of a cheat thatn builiding all kinds of new fire stations.
Can you see it: Oakland city council putting out competitive bids for
building and hiring new fire figters in the middle of a huge fire?
David Heimbach
<jak...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> wrote:
>
> Yeah, well I have a seaport that only fills with warehouses!
I think maybe you built it on fresh water. I did the same with the same
result. but after i realized i was on fresh water (a giant lake) and
rebuilt it on the ocean it worked ok. Anybody else have that experience?