Clan Lord: Mystics
Joe Williams
away. And Mystics will suck for several weeks (or months) after they're
implemented.
Mystics are the Mind class. Their powers are mental. They're often
informative in nature. They aren't going to cast fireballs, and they
aren't going to slay monsters by the dozen.
Mystics ar secretive. Many Mystic powers will work better if fewer people
are using them, so once a Mystic learns how to use a new spell, they'll be
inclined not to share it with others.
Mystics are the rarest class. They will probably gain ranks the same way
that Healers do: by being /shared with, but their powers won't be in such
high demand. Being a Mystic will lead to slow, painful growth, and will
not be capped by being the all-around most powerful character in the game
(as in most fantasy systems).
Mystic powers will be difficult to discover and expensive, and they will
work less effectively the more Mystics are using them.
That said:
Becoming a Mystic should be a painful process; far more painful than
becoming a Fighter or a Healer. This process should let the new acolyte
know what he's in for, and discourage him from playing a character he will
not enjoy. (We expect that most Clan Lord players will enjoy being a
Fighter most.) I will entertain suggestions from the crowd as to what the
Mystic initiation process should be.
Potential Mystic powers, to be implemented over a long period of time:
Sending and receiving thoughts without sunstones.
Tuning sunstones for public use (much like Elendil Fa'ril does now).
Tuning sunstones for private use -- making non-public sunstone networks.
Paralyzing a monster (something like Fairy Dust)
Knocking a monster down (something like Spriggins)
Placing a sunstone beacon in a spot, and teleporting to it.
Giving a special sunstone to a person, and teleporting that person to the
Mystic.
Determining if a specific person is alive or fallen.
Determining where a specific person is.
Gathering more information about a person than normally possible.
Gathering more information about a monster than normally possible.
Transporting an item instantly to a specific person.
And so on.
These are all neat powers, admittedly, but a group of seven Mystics is
useless on a hunt. One Mystic with two Healers and four Fighters, on the
other hand, could be formiddable.
In short, Mystics are going to be so pathetic that I don't want people to
pop into the game for the first time and say, "Fighter, Healer -- oh,
Mystic sounds fun. I'll be that!" only to find that they're doomed to a
hell of not knowing what to do or how to improve.
--
--Joe Williams
President, Delta Tao Software, Inc.
To subscribe to Joe's rambling personal mailing list, send "subscribe joedeltalist" to majo...@ten.net.
Nate Birkholz
Will there be a fireball-throwing wizard sort of deal then? Or are
ifghters going to be the only class capable of doing any damage?
tdean
to change to and from the mystic class, so that after the initial swell of
mysticism, people will go back to their previous class.
Please do allow already created characters to try out mystics.
Outcast
In article <joe-310898...@192.168.1.9>, j...@deltatao.com (Joe
Williams) wrote:
--
Remove "MANGO" from email adress to contact me
T.
> Becoming a Mystic should be a painful process; far more painful than
> becoming a Fighter or a Healer. This process should let the new acolyte
> know what he's in for, and discourage him from playing a character he will
> not enjoy. (We expect that most Clan Lord players will enjoy being a
> Fighter most.) I will entertain suggestions from the crowd as to what the
> Mystic initiation process should be.
>
> Potential Mystic powers, to be implemented over a long period of time:
>
> Sending and receiving thoughts without sunstones.
> Tuning sunstones for public use (much like Elendil Fa'ril does now).
> Tuning sunstones for private use -- making non-public sunstone networks.
> Paralyzing a monster (something like Fairy Dust)
> Knocking a monster down (something like Spriggins)
> Placing a sunstone beacon in a spot, and teleporting to it.
> Giving a special sunstone to a person, and teleporting that person to the
> Mystic.
> Determining if a specific person is alive or fallen.
> Determining where a specific person is.
> Gathering more information about a person than normally possible.
> Gathering more information about a monster than normally possible.
> Transporting an item instantly to a specific person.
> And so on.
>
> In short, Mystics are going to be so pathetic that I don't want people to
> pop into the game for the first time and say, "Fighter, Healer -- oh,
> Mystic sounds fun. I'll be that!" only to find that they're doomed to a
> hell of not knowing what to do or how to improve.
>
> --
> --Joe Williams
> President, Delta Tao Software, Inc.
Ok, maybe I'm blind, but the way I think of the online experience from a
paying customer's point of view is... what is the thing(s) each class is
going to do 80% of the time, and how is that going to remain enjoyable over
the long term?
For Fighters: kill stuff, kill new stuff, kill new stuff in new areas, kill
even
bigger, newer stuff in newer areas... pretty simple.
For Healers: Heal people, heal people faster, risk your life healing people...
heal people in new areas... but eventually, I forsee bored
healers. I wonder if that's why Mystic Healer isn't around as
much these days?
For Mystics: It sounds like the same thing... once the player base reaches
critical mass, there are only so many sunstones to tune.
Only so much info you can gather. Sure, paralyzing and
debalancing monsters could be useful for an indefinate period of
time (note: this seems to go against the 'no combat spells' :)
but I wonder if that is enough to keep players coming back
daily?
Also, I don't know how delta tao feels, but I think the \share system is
showing it's rough edges, I hate to see yet another group of players tied
down to what amounts to a system of begging.
--
-t
T.
"Thanks!"
Knowing Mystics aren't coming up this week, or that soon is much
appreciated, as well as your thought on what they should be, and how they
will be implimented.
--
-t
Thomas Signey
> I hope that for the first month or so of mystics, people have the choice
> to change to and from the mystic class, so that after the initial swell of
> mysticism, people will go back to their previous class.
>
>
> Please do allow already created characters to try out mystics.
>
>
>
>
>
> Outcast
>
>
That is incredibly bad fir the role playing experiance. Start a new
mystic I think a change of class would be very bad form.
Also how about a mystic could caste a spell, and see the world from
someone else's eye view for a few seconds? That way they can determine
if someone is alive or dead, and their surroundings.
Will they be able to fight better than healers if they have no offensive
spells? One more thing, how about the Mystic knockdown, is different
from the Spriggins, becasue they have to be nearby, but the victem can't
move until their balance is at full. be Great on an arachnoid hunt, or
battleing a big monster.
--Teioh
Madge
will eventually lose it's allure. Up to this point, I have refrained from
asking questions about the "magical" class. It took long enough to refine
the abilities of the two existing classes and I think many would agree that
more could be done.
I have had fun killing monsters and exploring. I even tried the healing
art, which seems like more of a calling to those who have a desire to feel
desperately needed or to be a hero. Face it, the healers are the heros, but
the fighters have more fun. But in much of my playing I have also had the
desire to be able to somehow alter the fabric of reality in the game. To be
able to somehow affect what is known and what can happen. At times I have
even wished that I could use the powers of a GameMaster to move the action
in the world along. There of course is no outlet in the game for this.
Now it sounds to me, that the Mystic could be the kind of character for
which the attainment and use of knowledge is a foremost goal. I envision,
as a Mystic, I would know many secrets about the world and I would also
know much about the minute-by-minute goings on of the world, so much so,
that the knowledge I would hold would spoil and possibly ruin the world or
even myself, if it were revealed. A mystic seems to me a keeper of powerful
and enchanted secrets. The Mystic could also funtcion as a kind of pseudo-
game master.
It is here that I would ask you, Joe, to consider the possibilities. It
would be possible to bridge the gap between player and Game Master with the
creation of the Mystic class.
The Game Master is usually responsible for being able to empower all of the
player characters in the game. Some of this power could be given, in small
parts, with some discretion, to the Mystic. For example, imagine if the
Mystic had the ability to make an enchanted weapon that would aid the
fighter in combat, which the Mystic himself could not use. The Mystic would
then have the power to reward (once object transfer is perfected) players
who quest. Imagine that the Mystic would like to devise a quest for some
players in order to reward them with the enchanted weapon. Program the game
to give the Mystic the ability to limitedly summon a beast. The Mystic
could then summon a beast and plant the beast with the treasure/token in a
specific spot somewhere hidden in the world where only the Mystic knew the
location. Also give the Mystic the ability to create signs and symbols that
propell adventurers down the quest of a path.
The one thing you should work into the game is the ability to drop and pick
up objects from locations in the game world. This would be very realistic
and necessary.
Maybe this sounds impossible, because of certain limitations. I am just
trying to help envision the role of the Mystic from what Joe said. It seems
like the 3rd leg of this stool that the game sits on should have something
to do with a limited power to GM. Whats the point of knowing so much of
what trasnspires in the world if you can't have some effect on its doings.
For a Mystic this will always have to be indirect meddling in the goings on
of the world.
Like T. I think that a paying customer needs to have something to come back
to daily and I think that the Mystic will keep coming back to see what
developments have flowered from his "magical" meddling and devising.
The Mystic should plant the secret seeds of adventure and discovery, while
the fighter is tempted to go out and seek and discover them, while the
healer gets all the medals for saving and supporting those who have
stumbled.
-Madge
T.
g...@ocf.berkeley.edu (Madge) wrote:
> This is to respond to whoever said that the Mystic sounds like a class that
> will eventually lose it's allure.
That be me... or rather, I didn't say "Mystic sounds like a class that
will eventually lose it's allure" as much as warn that if not given the
attention to activities that are fun to do repetitively, or an activity
that has a continued usefulness, Mystics will be less that idea to play,
and hence may result in attempts to cripple the other classes to make
Mystics more alluring.
> I have had fun killing monsters and exploring. I even tried the healing
> art, which seems like more of a calling to those who have a desire to feel
> desperately needed or to be a hero. Face it, the healers are the heros, but
> the fighters have more fun.
Which bothers me. Healers need _something_, and it's not poor defense for
fighters, to give them minute to minute enjoyment.
> It is here that I would ask you, Joe, to consider the possibilities. It
> would be possible to bridge the gap between player and Game Master with the
> creation of the Mystic class.
I have two things to say about this:
1) think of the abuses this sort of thing could allow.
2) most people wish they were very powerful, knew all about the game, and
had all sort of special privledges... and most people are disappointed
to find out it's much more fun to be an uninformed grunt. :)
--
-t
Elkhorn
would require a fairly high amount of mind training (Mind Master) also
require Troilus and Body Master, probably Spirit Master as well, This way
they'd have to work for awhile, and they'd be ready for the other classes
if things didn't pan out. Maybe have a quest item hidden somewhere to
become a Mystic? an item that's not always around and isn't always in the
same place would be nice.
The biggest concern people have about Mystics that I've seen is how
they will gain experience. A fighter does it primarily through directly
killing and gaining experience. A healer primarily gets shared experience
from the fighters (Some healers kill things, or try to at least) With 5
share slots that doesn't leave much for the Mystic. Maybe both Healers and
Mystics should gain experience through a system that's not like welfare
(Sorry if anybody's offended by this comparison)
To me it seems that someone should gain experience through practicing
their art. Weather it be combat, healing wounded, casting spells or
whatever. Not many people are going to share with someone who keeps
secrets to themselves and is basically quite anti-social.
One possible way to do things such as experience (If they even have
trainers, allthough they may want to improve their minds) is say, the
longer a secret has been kept, the more experience they get. Or just a a
time thing (This could be set fairly slow)
That's all there I can think of for Mystics.
Elkhorn
--
To email send to gr...@earthlink.net
Scott Forbes
> Becoming a Mystic should be a painful process; far more painful than
> becoming a Fighter or a Healer. This process should let the new acolyte
> know what he's in for, and discourage him from playing a character he will
> not enjoy. (We expect that most Clan Lord players will enjoy being a
> Fighter most.) I will entertain suggestions from the crowd as to what the
> Mystic initiation process should be.
Death. Master Magus initiates the player with a high-power version of the
Orga Shaman "strange gesture" attack; if the player dies, he's not ready
to become a mystic. If you *really* want to make it tough, have the
initiation take place in a room where healers are not allowed to enter.
Someone else already suggested my favorite ideas for a mystic ability:
Seeing the world through another player's eyes, or hearing another player
regardless of his/her location. ("Morgana the Mage is listening to your
thoughts.") Another idea would be a twist on the short-range teleport
that spriggins have: A mystic with good karma teleports herself away from
monsters; a mystic with bad karma, attempting to use the same power,
teleports herself *toward* monsters.
--
Scott Forbes for...@ravenna.com
Vaughn Garvin
just a note i havent been around quite as much cuz i got a new job, hee hee
but.... I'll be on more soon as i get used to my new digital cable box, hee
hee
Mystic Healer
Journey Into The Stars..... The Zodiac Tribe
http://members.home.net/bitstream/zodiac
----------
In article <tak_BLAH_-ya024080...@news.nauticom.net>,
the_si...@hotmail.com
g...@ocf.berkeley.edu (Madge) wrote:
> This is to respond to whoever said that the Mystic sounds like a class that
> asking questions about the "magical" class. It took long enough to refine
> the abilities of the two existing classes and I think many would agree that
> more could be done.
>
> art, which seems like more of a calling to those who have a desire to feel
> desperately needed or to be a hero. Face it, the healers are the heros, but
> desire to be able to somehow alter the fabric of reality in the game. To be
> able to somehow affect what is known and what can happen. At times I have
> even wished that I could use the powers of a GameMaster to move the action
> in the world along. There of course is no outlet in the game for this.
>
> Now it sounds to me, that the Mystic could be the kind of character for
> which the attainment and use of knowledge is a foremost goal. I envision,
> as a Mystic, I would know many secrets about the world and I would also
> know much about the minute-by-minute goings on of the world, so much so,
> that the knowledge I would hold would spoil and possibly ruin the world or
> even myself, if it were revealed. A mystic seems to me a keeper of powerful
> and enchanted secrets. The Mystic could also funtcion as a kind of pseudo-
> game master.
>
> would be possible to bridge the gap between player and Game Master with the
> creation of the Mystic class.
>
Indeed I quailed in my silence when I heard the intent of the Mystic from
Joe, but then I too shared this vision of the mystic that Madge has provided.
Here, truly, The Silent One could find his or her true role in the world. I
think that this class will have many adherents at first, but then a lucky few
of us will remain to carry on the true work of the Mystic as the less cryptic
fall by the wayside.
I fear that without some sort of true combat spell, however, we shall have
grave difficulty in gaining money. With a combat spell, we will have too many
who seek only glory, who lust only for raw power, and who cannot weave a web
of intrigue to capture their enemies or mark a path to greatness for their
friends. Instead a charred trail of orga and undine will litter their steps
through the isles of the exiled. So what then shall be done to balance these
concerns?
I have, I fear, few suggestions. My experiences in my earlier incarnation as
a healer led me to start a fighter to earn money. Perhaps this shall be the
course best suited to Mystics, sadly. Joe's vision of the world is such that
only fighters have any real earning potential,a t least in the short run, and
most fighters will buy their own supplies before they begin sharing
significant amounts of money with others. Indeed, they will most likely share
with healers first, since it is more imperative for healers to be
sunstone-equipped early on, etc. So it will be a slow and arduous process, as
Joe described. The investment in a subsidiary character may be worth it for
those of us who wish to explore this new class and its possibilities. But
instead, if some way could be found for Mystics to earn money through
research--perhaps a Master who gives ranks and money for exploration or the
gaining of secrets--"Greetings, The Silent One. I see you have found the path
to the desert well and have survived the passage. You have been awarded two
ranks and 30 coins."--might instead be the sort of path to go. The next
mystic to make such a passage might be awarded slightly less experience and
slightly fewer coins. This would require new secrets to be posted
periodically. Perhaps Mystics could travel the lands looking for scrolls
scattered about, which would then be recorded in theor save file, or perhaps
upon finding a scroll, a password would be displayed on the screen. The
mystic would then write down the password, approach the learning master, and
communicate the password (obviously I would prefer that it need not be spoken
aloud, but in the silence of the Mystic Temple, I may utter a harsh whisper
to gain the experience I so desire), allowing the Learning Master to grant
the experience and coins.
This shall be a learning experience for us all--Delta Tao and those of us who
follow the Crooked Path of Mystic Learning.
--------------------------------------------------------
Silence is not golden, for who knows what evil tarnishes
the silence of men's hearts?
The Silent One keeps many secrets, and looses few.
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Joe Williams
>imagine if the
>Mystic had the ability to make an enchanted weapon that would aid the
>fighter in combat, which the Mystic himself could not use.
Enchanted weapons would fall into the body/earth realm, and would probably
be done by Fighters or a fighter subclass.
--
--Joe Williams
President, Delta Tao Software, Inc.
To subscribe to Joe's rambling personal mailing list, send "subscribe joedeltalist" to majo...@ten.net.
Ted Woodward
Scott Forbes <for...@ravenna.com> wrote:
>Someone else already suggested my favorite ideas for a mystic ability:
>Seeing the world through another player's eyes, or hearing another player
>regardless of his/her location. ("Morgana the Mage is listening to your
>thoughts.") Another idea would be a twist on the short-range teleport
>that spriggins have: A mystic with good karma teleports herself away from
>monsters; a mystic with bad karma, attempting to use the same power,
>teleports herself *toward* monsters.
I don't know about having it linked to karma; a few karma bombs and your
mystic is useless...
Ted
--
Ted Woodward, t...@dsp.sps.nobasura.mot.com O-
Spam protection in effect; remove the ".nobasura" from my hostname
Opinions are mine, not Motorola's
"Mad scientists HATE shopping for shoes!" -- Peaches
Madge
> > It is here that I would ask you, Joe, to consider the possibilities. It
> > would be possible to bridge the gap between player and Game Master with the
> > creation of the Mystic class.
>
> I have two things to say about this:
>
> 1) think of the abuses this sort of thing could allow.
> 2) most people wish they were very powerful, knew all about the game, and
> had all sort of special privledges... and most people are disappointed
> to find out it's much more fun to be an uninformed grunt. :)
>
> --
> -t
When I say "bridge the gap", I don't mean that the Mystic WILL BE a GM. I'm
saying that they should have GM-like powers, i.e. very limited, but enough
to be able to shape the dramatic events that happen in the game.
For example, to give another player a magical weapon, at this point in CL's
development, is impossible for any character to do. If it remains
impossible to do, then I can't see how giving a Mystic the power to do so
would degenerate into abuse, especially if the Mystic had to work long and
hard to gain that power. At this point it wouldn't even matter if the
weapon had any REAL power at all, it's only important that the Mystic has
some perceived power that the other classes do not. Mystics, in my view
should not just KNWO the secrets, THEY SHOULD MAKE SOME OF THE SECRETS TOO.
The point is that Mystics should be able to alter reality in the game by
making people do things they normally would not do. The net effect of
course is that drama is created in the world, a plot develops. That is what
RPGs are for, to develop stories through game play and characterization.
It's probably likely that if I don't see the Mystic as having some kind of
power to empower other players or affect the experiences of other players
by the use of some magical means, then I won't want to play one. I'll stick
to the fighter class which has been good enough for the largest part of our
collective enjoyment, happily "subscribing" to whatever the GMs are dishing
out. ;-)
-Madge
Madge
When the Mystic casts the Radar spell, a map of the world areas he's been
to becomes visible. Little points of light glow on the map, showing the
positions of currently logged on player characters. This would help give
the Mystic an idea of where the action was taking place at a given moment.
Might see 15 or so glowing points in the Orga camp, single glowing points
would be all over the map, more glowing point clusters in areas where
people like to hang out, like in the town square and the mirror room.
Maybe a "Monster Radar" as well for particular monsters, though more useful
ones might be Orga or Drakes.
T.
> In article <gta-ya023180003...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
> g...@ocf.berkeley.edu (Madge) wrote:
> But
> instead, if some way could be found for Mystics to earn money through
> research--perhaps a Master who gives ranks and money for exploration or the
> gaining of secrets--"Greetings, The Silent One. I see you have found the path
> to the desert well and have survived the passage. You have been awarded two
> ranks and 30 coins."--might instead be the sort of path to go.
Actually, since the world is a deadly place, and since repetitive killing
is eventually boring as hell, I see exploring as the long term goal of the
fighter. Who else trains to be able to withstand or make their way through
the dangers of the world? What purpose is there in becoming stronger, if
not to push onward to the bondaries of the world?
If a mystic were to do this, they would require protection. This means
nothing is secret, since the mystic shares the knowledge with all who help
get them there. Exploration and fighting are the lifeblood of a fighter.
I hope that healers and mystics can find their own goals, rather than
borrow those of the fighter.
As for money, in the short term, any healer that wishes to gain money is
welcome to contact me. Since I cannot find new creatures which will
improve my fighting techniques, I'm willing to hunt for healers, and share
in the bounty. Just one caveat, ambulance chasers need not apply. If you
wish to hunt for money, I'm not about to stop every 10 feet to watch you
heal to try and grab another share.
-Martlet
T.
g...@ocf.berkeley.edu (Madge) wrote:
> In article <tak_BLAH_-ya024080...@news.nauticom.net>,
> tak_...@nauticom.net (T.) wrote:
>
> > > It is here that I would ask you, Joe, to consider the possibilities. It
> > > would be possible to bridge the gap between player and Game Master
with the
> > > creation of the Mystic class.
> >
> > I have two things to say about this:
> >
> > 1) think of the abuses this sort of thing could allow.
> > 2) most people wish they were very powerful, knew all about the game, and
> > had all sort of special privledges... and most people are disappointed
> > to find out it's much more fun to be an uninformed grunt. :)
>
> When I say "bridge the gap", I don't mean that the Mystic WILL BE a GM. I'm
> saying that they should have GM-like powers, i.e. very limited, but enough
> to be able to shape the dramatic events that happen in the game.
>
> For example, to give another player a magical weapon, at this point in CL's
> development, is impossible for any character to do. If it remains
> impossible to do, then I can't see how giving a Mystic the power to do so
> would degenerate into abuse, especially if the Mystic had to work long and
> hard to gain that power. At this point it wouldn't even matter if the
> weapon had any REAL power at all, it's only important that the Mystic has
> some perceived power that the other classes do not. Mystics, in my view
> should not just KNWO the secrets, THEY SHOULD MAKE SOME OF THE SECRETS TOO.
> The point is that Mystics should be able to alter reality in the game by
> making people do things they normally would not do. The net effect of
> course is that drama is created in the world, a plot develops. That is what
> RPGs are for, to develop stories through game play and characterization.
I agree, that it would be nice to have some people, either DT employees, or
players with a certain degree of self control and a moral sense of game
improvement for others that were helping to build the world. But I don't
think this should be a class open to any 5th grader who wants to make magic
swords for his buddies (no offense to 5th graders, some are very mature,
but the general impression of 5th graders on average holds true).
Given my scenario, where it is not a class, but a special class, let's call
it Beacon and his Rangers... there a a few problems. First, everyone wants
in, and those that aren't, cry favortism, ass kissers, etc... I'm already
starting to hear that sort of thing building. DT has to take a very
careful approach to how the deal with players to not show any sort of
favoritism. This eliminates my scenario right from the start.
Alternately, some players could be given limited powers and told not to
tell a soul. I'll bet money that won't happen 9 times out of 10 with even
the most trustworthy individuals, they'll tell a close friend. Even if
these hypothetical empowered players don't tell anyone, how good do you
think most of them are going to be at hiding it and still using it to
improve the game, with hundreds of watchful eyes? Look at how many secret
DT players get spotted and ID'd for showing up around raids, doing certain
things?
One stupid example. I did a \report, and someone new replied with a
\thinkto they knew about that problem. Bingo, ID's a new DT character.
Later on, I see them acting like a newbie that wants to RP in town. Noone
wants to play along, so I tell someone else to play along cause it's a DT
person. About 25 zerks chasing him later.... :) It's easy to slip up and
someone will spot your extra powers.
Finally, I'm not sure I would want to be given extra powers. Of course I'm
going to say I would never tell a soul, and am great at not being obvious
about it. And of course I want the powers just to be special. But, running
a game is often a lot less fun than playing. Knowing too much ruins things
for you later. I quit playing Doom after I started making maps, and was
able to figure out too well how monsters worked, and I started using AI,
code, or map tricks to beat it, rather than skill and brains.
Remember, the grass is always greener... I'm sure DT folks say, "Oh,
wouldn't it be nice to just play the game blindly like all these players do
just once?"
--
-t
Keith Rose
> Becoming a Mystic should be a painful process; far more painful than
> becoming a Fighter or a Healer. This process should let the new acolyte
> know what he's in for, and discourage him from playing a character he will
> not enjoy. (We expect that most Clan Lord players will enjoy being a
> Fighter most.) I will entertain suggestions from the crowd as to what the
> Mystic initiation process should be.
The trouble is, there are really only two effective ways to make
something "painful" in this context: tedium and nuisance value. The
trick is to find a way to produce these things in such a way as to not
alienate _everyone_ from Mysticism, just those who aren't suited to it.
If Mysticism is the class of the mind, then the initiation should
involve the mind of the player, not just the character. What I picture
is this, to become a Mystic, one must first go through a period of
apprenticeship to a (NPC) Master. The new exile, having trained some
number of ranks with the Mind Master, would gain entrance to the Mystic
Temple where a Master of Apprentices would dispense quests. Successful
completion of the quests would earn a point towards eventually becoming
a Mystic. Failure to complete a quest would lose a point. During the
apprenticeship period, the Mystic-in-training would gain no new
abilities, and might even be forbidden to train with any other master.
The quests would have to be fairly diverse, but not all that interesting
individually. Some quests could be for the sake of discipline alone.
They might range from menial labour (Go carry 50 sacks of grain from a
storehouse to the mess), to messenger duty (Go carry this note to Master
Heckus, and bring me his reply.), to tests of strength under unusual
conditions (I will send you into a locked room containing <some
moderately dangerous thing>. You must stay alive for n minutes.), to
the completely arbitrary (Go find 12 Sylvans wearing Green shirts, and
tell me their names).
Other quests ought to have more of a point to them, if only
peripherally. The best idea that comes to mind would be that these
quests simply be questions. The answers to some of these questions may
be found by exploring the lands, but I see most of them as coming from
study of the Master's library. I picture this as a vast collection of
unsorted scrolls on all sorts of topics. It would probably be best
implemented as a pedestal which, when bumped, displayed some random bit
of text visible only to the person who bumped it. Somewhere in the
texts would lurk the answers to all of the questions.
I like this idea because, while it is both tedious and a nuisance, it is
clearly less tedious to someone who finds the content of the texts
interesting. By tuning that content appropriately, you can attract or
repel players on the basis of their tastes. Somebody who wants to hack
and slash is not going to want to spend time wading through poetry to
find the answer to a riddle. Also, it provided you with an easy
mechanism to dispense little tidbits of "priviledged" information to
Mystics, even after their apprenticeship is over.
There are, of course, at least two obvious flaws with this idea. First,
it is more strongly biased against people who don't read English
particularly well than is most of the rest of the game. And second, no
matter how many different puzzles and riddles you come up with,
eventually someone will publish the answers to all of them and defeat
the whole purpose.
Oh, and I guess there's a third flaw, which is that somebody would have
to write a whole pile of interesting scrolls for me to read. :)
KR - aka Kevas
--
Keith Rose
kr...@cyberus.ca (home)
K.R...@telesat.ca (work)
Duane Johnson
grader stuff.(especially the 5th grade stuff. take it from someone who just
finished the abismal grade=p(ugh i hate netscape P's, useless for that kinda
smilys cause they make it look like your smiling!))
Baerwizz
SDC Ambassador to ELF
Founder and member of LvL. 0 (im not tellin what that meens =) )of the Order of
the Dragon(which is as yet unoficial but we are wirking on it)
SunDragon Tracker
Healer
P.S. sorry for all the parethases.
Thomas Signey
>
>
> When I say "bridge the gap", I don't mean that the Mystic WILL BE a GM. I'm
> saying that they should have GM-like powers, i.e. very limited, but enough
> to be able to shape the dramatic events that happen in the game.
>
> For example, to give another player a magical weapon, at this point in CL's
> development, is impossible for any character to do. If it remains
> impossible to do, then I can't see how giving a Mystic the power to do so
> would degenerate into abuse, especially if the Mystic had to work long and
> hard to gain that power. At this point it wouldn't even matter if the
> weapon had any REAL power at all, it's only important that the Mystic has
> some perceived power that the other classes do not. Mystics, in my view
> should not just KNWO the secrets, THEY SHOULD MAKE SOME OF THE SECRETS TOO.
> The point is that Mystics should be able to alter reality in the game by
> making people do things they normally would not do. The net effect of
> course is that drama is created in the world, a plot develops. That is what
> RPGs are for, to develop stories through game play and characterization.
>
than to read your mind. I do sell magical wweapons, :) but some people
are seeming to stray off Joe's idea of what a mystic is, just a mind
mage with their main power being knowledge. Damn i want to cross train
and get some of those. Oh well, when will the Monk class be introduced?
:) I'd love to go into puck's tavern and try out my first tai chi lesson
Steven Segul style.
--Teioh
Thomas Signey
> Someone else already suggested my favorite ideas for a mystic ability:
> Seeing the world through another player's eyes, or hearing another player
> regardless of his/her location. ("Morgana the Mage is listening to your
> thoughts.") Another idea would be a twist on the short-range teleport
> that spriggins have: A mystic with good karma teleports herself away from
> monsters; a mystic with bad karma, attempting to use the same power,
> teleports herself *toward* monsters.
That is retarded. Karma has no affect on how you fight or perform and it
shouldn't.
--Teioh
Todd Lipcon
were slightly different each time (sorta like the Farmer! :P) then
publishing would be impossible. And besides... Who would want to publish
the answers to something that they were smart enough to figure out! It's
much more fun to laugh at people while they try to do it themselves....
Just like the funny puzzles that the answer is simple but you like to
watch your friends puzzle for hours over them.
For those of you who have read Robert Jordan's _Wheel of Time_ series
(at least one of you has :P), Mystics ought to be like Aes Sedai of the
Brown Ajah :). For those of you who haven't a clue what I'm talking
about, those people are sorceresses (sorta....) who constantly seek
knowledge so much that they often forget the real world and the people
in it.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd be willing to sacrifice
hours to be like Joe described Mystics to be :) What fun it would be to
hint about things that only you and 3 or 4 others knew about and watch
the level 40 fighters beg at your knees for a sunstone :)
Todd Lipcon
-Known in Clan Lord as Mithrandir or Toad
T.
> I totally agree with Kevas' ideas for the initiation of a Mystic. If it
> were slightly different each time (sorta like the Farmer! :P) then
Phrase is composed of 4 parts, take one at random from the 4 sections listed:
You smell like
You'd sniff
You are
You are worse than
Your mother is
a putrid,
a vermine licking,
the backside of some
a myrm-eating,
a pathetic,
your sister's
obnoxious
orga-loving
worthless
slack-jawed
yellow-bellied
ignorant
slimy
lichen-covered
corpuscle
undine worshipper
arachne spittle
meshra spawn
slime fungus
toe jam
booger eater
slug trail
pile of dung
Mystics better be a lot harder to compile a listing of :P
> publishing would be impossible. And besides... Who would want to publish
> the answers to something that they were smart enough to figure out! It's
See above... me :)
> much more fun to laugh at people while they try to do it themselves....
> Just like the funny puzzles that the answer is simple but you like to
> watch your friends puzzle for hours over them.
I kill friends like that :)
> I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd be willing to sacrifice
> hours to be like Joe described Mystics to be :) What fun it would be to
> hint about things that only you and 3 or 4 others knew about and watch
> the level 40 fighters beg at your knees for a sunstone :)
Or chop off your knees! :)
--
-t
Thomas Signey
> If Mysticism is the class of the mind, then the initiation should
> involve the mind of the player, not just the character. What I picture
> is this, to become a Mystic, one must first go through a period of
> apprenticeship to a (NPC) Master. The new exile, having trained some
> number of ranks with the Mind Master, would gain entrance to the Mystic
> Temple where a Master of Apprentices would dispense quests. Successful
> completion of the quests would earn a point towards eventually becoming
> a Mystic. Failure to complete a quest would lose a point. During the
> apprenticeship period, the Mystic-in-training would gain no new
> abilities, and might even be forbidden to train with any other master.
>
> The quests would have to be fairly diverse, but not all that interesting
> individually. Some quests could be for the sake of discipline alone.
> They might range from menial labour (Go carry 50 sacks of grain from a
> storehouse to the mess), to messenger duty (Go carry this note to Master
> Heckus, and bring me his reply.), to tests of strength under unusual
> conditions (I will send you into a locked room containing <some
> moderately dangerous thing>. You must stay alive for n minutes.), to
> the completely arbitrary (Go find 12 Sylvans wearing Green shirts, and
> tell me their names).
>
you or anything, I am though :) but not all of the spells you suggest
have to do with the mind. I like the floating eye thing though. So far
the mystics, look very exciting, but I am still afraid of all the people
playing now flocking over to be one. Oh well got to be tested somehow.
--Teioh
Braveheart
spell... whish allows the Mystic to pass un-noticed by monsters. of
course if the mystic attacks the spell is disrupted and the mystic loses
his protection.
mystics might also be able to create brief gateways back to certain
points...like town or to the arachnoid cave.
BUT as soon as the mystic passes through the portal is closes so he has to
be the last one... thus if the mystic is killed or passes through the
portal before everyone else gets through then then portal closes.
Light spells would also be handy.
maybe a charm spell?
ventriliquisum would be cool and could be very interesting... Give the
mystic a few pleasures a few spells just to let them have revenge on
his/her enemies.
Identify would also be a good spell
magic Mouths or magic writing... allows the mystic to lave a marker for
thouse who come after Him or Her... the word south flating in the air or
a magic mouth saying "We went south"
Braveheart
--
--Do NOT send unsolicited advertisements
--Do NOT add my e-mail address to your list(s)
--Remove me if I am on a comercial listing
Braveheart
(Scott Forbes) wrote:
> In article <joe-310898...@192.168.1.9>, j...@deltatao.com (Joe
> Williams) wrote:
>
> > Becoming a Mystic should be a painful process; far more painful than
> > becoming a Fighter or a Healer. This process should let the new acolyte
> > know what he's in for, and discourage him from playing a character he will
> > not enjoy. (We expect that most Clan Lord players will enjoy being a
> > Fighter most.) I will entertain suggestions from the crowd as to what the
> > Mystic initiation process should be.
>
> Death. Master Magus initiates the player with a high-power version of the
> Orga Shaman "strange gesture" attack; if the player dies, he's not ready
> to become a mystic. If you *really* want to make it tough, have the
> initiation take place in a room where healers are not allowed to enter.
>
> Someone else already suggested my favorite ideas for a mystic ability:
> Seeing the world through another player's eyes, or hearing another player
> regardless of his/her location. ("Morgana the Mage is listening to your
> thoughts.") Another idea would be a twist on the short-range teleport
> that spriggins have: A mystic with good karma teleports herself away from
> monsters; a mystic with bad karma, attempting to use the same power,
> teleports herself *toward* monsters.
another idea is to sort of have a wizard eye spell. which allows mystics
to see what is in nearby rooms with out actully enetering them. This
would make them good explorers...though they could look past a dragon into
the treasure room they could not actully touch the treasure. And pray
the dragon isn't eating them while they try to look past.
This kind of speal would be great for rescues.. you could look to where
the dead are and maybe see waht monsters are near by.
you could give the mystic a glowing eye eycon to move about... only the
mystic who is controling the eye (and perhaps OTHER mystics) could see
it. This also lets mystics spy. To fighters go off to secretly discuss a
puzzle they solved a mystic could drop in on them secretly and see whats
up. Of course if the fighters hire a trusted Mystic he might be able to
warn them someone is looking in on them.
in short don't tie mystics to seeing through other players eyes give me a
method to see beyond where they are perhaps to places no other character
has gone before.
Braveheart
> Williams) wrote:
>
> > Becoming a Mystic should be a painful process; far more painful than
> > becoming a Fighter or a Healer. This process should let the new acolyte
> > know what he's in for, and discourage him from playing a character he will
> > not enjoy. (We expect that most Clan Lord players will enjoy being a
> > Fighter most.) I will entertain suggestions from the crowd as to what the
> > Mystic initiation process should be.
> >
> >
> > Sending and receiving thoughts without sunstones.
> > Tuning sunstones for public use (much like Elendil Fa'ril does now).
> > Tuning sunstones for private use -- making non-public sunstone networks.
> > Paralyzing a monster (something like Fairy Dust)
> > Knocking a monster down (something like Spriggins)
> > Placing a sunstone beacon in a spot, and teleporting to it.
> > Giving a special sunstone to a person, and teleporting that person to the
> > Mystic.
> > Determining if a specific person is alive or fallen.
> > Determining where a specific person is.
> > Gathering more information about a person than normally possible.
> > Gathering more information about a monster than normally possible.
> > Transporting an item instantly to a specific person.
> > And so on.
> >
> > In short, Mystics are going to be so pathetic that I don't want people to
> > pop into the game for the first time and say, "Fighter, Healer -- oh,
> > Mystic sounds fun. I'll be that!" only to find that they're doomed to a
> > hell of not knowing what to do or how to improve.
> >
> > --Joe Williams
> > President, Delta Tao Software, Inc.
Mysics should have th power to enchant items berifly or raise a other
players stats for a brief time. this would give fighters (the main SOURCE
for share exp) a reason to share with them.
a fighter with a healer on his right keeping him staning and a mystic on
hid left magically sharpening his blade woudl be aforce to reckon with.
the enchanment process could be tempered in two ways:
1) make the enchatment brief so that the mystic needs to hang around to
keep it renewed
OR
2) make the enchantment long lasting BUT make it take a LONG time to
create. So a fighter gives a mystic a weapon for enchnatment a mystic
needs to spendf HOURS (like 24-48 hours of IN game time to add +1 to the
weapon). Of course if the mystic notices that the fighter he is enchating
for stops sharing with him then he will simply stop enchanthing the item.
Healers too could benifit from Mystics due to having enchanted armor..
actully some system which combines BOTH long and short enchantings would
be best.
the other bonus to this is the mystic can demand high payment for his/her
services.
Enchanthing should only be for HIGH level mystics... think of it as
somthing to shoot for. Why do you put in all this time being a low level
do little mystic...to one day rise above the crowd and become an
enchanter...
Madge
<MoodyLoners-01...@ip232.allentown.pa.pub-ip.psi.net>,
Moody...@WithGuns.Club (Braveheart) wrote:
> Enchanthing should only be for HIGH level mystics... think of it as
> somthing to shoot for. Why do you put in all this time being a low level
> do little mystic...to one day rise above the crowd and become an
> enchanter...
>
> Braveheart
I totally agree!!! This is idea should be key. The Mystic's powers should
not be granted outright from the beginning, they should be earned over a
long period of study or whatever it is the Mystic will do on a daily basis.
That way, only perservering characters will be Mystics, presuamably after
their dedication has proven them worthy of such powers. No powerful spell
should come to the Mystic with much suffering. Power should balance with
suffering.
Although in this testing phase, we may see Mystics with instant powers due
to the necessities of testing.
-madge
T.
How about mystic mystics?
Rather than making mystics so painful that few would want to be one, why
not make it a class decision that is defered to later development in a
characters lifespan?
Noone (except those people who's game it is, and who like it the way they
want it, and damn the lot of you whining, sniveling, ungrateful sons of
bitches that try to tell us what to do to make you pay us and feel happy
doing it!) ever said all professions must be chosen the second you first
log on. Noone said it had to be simple to chosen a profession.
From the sounds of it, lots of players want mystics to be played by players
very interested in role playing, who take the time to understand and learn,
or help create, the backstory for the CL universe.
A lot of recent suggestions want to make mystic class players read a lot,
take tests, etc.
My suggestion is this, make mystics require that you be of another
profession already. Why not give a healer that achieves the 3rd circle the
option to continue as a healer, or forgo further training in the healing
arts to become a mystic? Or a fighter that achieves the <insert title here>
the option to become a mystic?
This way, mystics already have a good knowledge of the realm from a
previous calling. As it currently stands, at that level, it would be very
slow to gain as a mystic due to rank gain slowdown. It would allow players
that tire of their profession to assume a new twist, goals, etc. It would
mean that all mystics are formidable in thier own right, and that they
already command a certain amount of respect (or disrespect, for evil-minded
mystics) and fame (or infamy).
Aside from giving up progress in your previous profession, some other twist
might add some mystique to mystics. Perhaps mystics cannot yell, maybe not
even speak, but are only allowed to \think, being of the mind, or perhaps
at times may \whisper.
When I think of a Mystic class, I think of a Merlin type. Someone wise,
someone who's been around, and yet someone that won't tell you want you
want to know, but perhaps only what you need to know. I don't think of
wimpy apprentices, but rather someone formadable, someone who is prone to
wander off on their own to find secrets noone else can, and yet may choose
to walk with the rest, and help guide them, or save them from a grave
mistake.
This also allows another option to keep play interesting in the long term,
as just when you start to get bored, you can obtain a new opportunity,
rather than just forever encountering harder and harder creatures (or
harder and harder areas to attempt a rescue).
Comments, opinions, why DT ain't gonna do it this way? :)
--
(Yes, I agree, I'm biased from the standpoint that I'm suggestion only I
and a few others have the option to become mystics right away... but if I
thought that that was the only justification for this suggestion, I
wouldn't put it up for public scorn... but yes, Outcast, go ahead and say
it anyway.
And no, Teioh, you don't get to be as elitist as me, Outcast says you're
just a wannabe-elitist!)
--
-t
Thomas Signey
Anyone with half a brain figures out how he works when you see him. Is
that the whole secret? And I would sodomize the mystic that held his
tongue. perhaps It would be lossened by my katana pushing it free from
behind. THere is nothing that I don't know, and I don't see why you need
a special class just to try and emulate me. OH well if you like
pretending and coppying other peoples stupid books, I guess I have no
reaspn to stop you.
--Teioh (DO I make sense still? I seem to change topic whenever I write
something.)
Crystal
already mastered one discipline. It would prevent the "make a mystic my
third character syndrome" and give us veterans something to strive for.
It would also insure that mystics have a value in the game. If it takes a
month before you are able to start mystic training (with a new character)
you will only get people who really want to be a mystic going for it.
Crystal
Grey Order Clan
We stand between the darkness and the light...
We prepare for the end.
----------
In article <tak-ya02408000R...@news.nauticom.net>,
Joe Williams
>My suggestion is this, make mystics require that you be of another
>profession already. Why not give a healer that achieves the 3rd circle the
>option to continue as a healer, or forgo further training in the healing
>arts to become a mystic? Or a fighter that achieves the <insert title here>
>the option to become a mystic?
>
Mystics are "pure" mentalists, dedicated from birth to their training,
much as Healers are pure spiritualists, and Fighters are pure bodyists.
There will be branches in the class tree, but it would take considerable
effort for a Fighter to transition all the way to Mystic.
--
--Joe Williams
President, Delta Tao Software, Inc.
To subscribe to Joe's rambling personal mailing list, send "subscribe joedeltalist" to majo...@ten.net.