Diablo and Angband...
Cameron Booth
Is it just me, or is Diablo just Angband with way cool graphics?
Let's think about it...
* You have to descend into randomly generated dungeons and kill the big bad
monster at the bottom.
* The town of Tristram has basically the same buildings as the Town in
Angband... blacksmith, healer, magic shop, black market, and a place for you
to store items (Your House in Angband, anywhere you choose to drop them in
Diablo)
* Both games have a large bestiary, enabled by using the same
representations (letters in Angband, graphics in Diablo) in different
colours.
* Both games enable you to return to the town, and then return to where you
were in the dungeon (Town Portal and Recall)
Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy Diablo. I just think that it owes a great
debt to Angband and all the similar games (Rogue, Moria et al)
See y'all,
Cameron Booth c...@bsh.com.au
-----------------------------------
Devil-may-care flying fool and all round good guy
-----------------------------------
Time Goddess
Most everyone (excluding Blizzard) agrees with you. Blizzard says that they
set out to create a whole new game, in no specific genere or resembelance to
any game, but we know better:)
Michael Hayden
Bought Diablo, played it, have already won twice on single player and am
starting to get into multiplayer. Cool beans. Money well spent. But I will
be -severely- annoyed if any Blizzard representative ever tries to tell me
to my face that it is an original concept... =P
Like the original poster said, it's Angband with pretty graphics. I've
played Angband in some form or another (ZAngband, Vanilla Angband, Moria)
for as long as there's been an Angband to play. It's public domain, so we
can't fault Blizzard for co-opting the idea, but they should at least
admit that they did. 'Nuf said.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Michael "Doc" Hayden -- mha...@tsoft.com -- http://tsoft.com/~mhayden/
Hey, I use Procmail (with Spam Bouncer), so spam away! (^_^)
"What you are about to see is real. These are not actors; they're directors."
bdy...@network.boxmail.com
In article <35980...@news.tsoft.net>,
Michael Hayden <mha...@tsoft.com> wrote:
>In article <6n8dop$5eo$1@nnrp3>, Time Goddess <time_g...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Most everyone (excluding Blizzard) agrees with you. Blizzard says that they
>>set out to create a whole new game, in no specific genere or resembelance to
>>any game, but we know better:)
>
>Bought Diablo, played it, have already won twice on single player and am
>starting to get into multiplayer. Cool beans. Money well spent. But I will
>be -severely- annoyed if any Blizzard representative ever tries to tell me
>to my face that it is an original concept... =P
>
>Like the original poster said, it's Angband with pretty graphics. I've
>played Angband in some form or another (ZAngband, Vanilla Angband, Moria)
>for as long as there's been an Angband to play. It's public domain, so we
>can't fault Blizzard for co-opting the idea, but they should at least
>admit that they did. 'Nuf said.
It's too bad work on Utumno has stopped. Essentially it was a Diablo-fied
version of Angband, with 3/4 view graphics. Unfortunately the author quit
work on it to pursue other projects, and it was never made for the Mac
anyway.
I've heard that Diablo 2 willbe more like Angband, but that game will be
some way off, of course (and we won't see a Mac version before then end of
the millenium, which ever year you date that as).
--
Brian Dysart | Ours is not to reason why...
bdy...@rahul.net | "...and eight for the fruit bat."
Darin Takemoto
In article <35980...@news.tsoft.net>, mha...@tsoft.com (Michael Hayden)
wrote:
> Bought Diablo, played it, have already won twice on single player and am
> starting to get into multiplayer. Cool beans. Money well spent. But I will
> be -severely- annoyed if any Blizzard representative ever tries to tell me
> to my face that it is an original concept... =P
>
> Like the original poster said, it's Angband with pretty graphics. I've
> played Angband in some form or another (ZAngband, Vanilla Angband, Moria)
> for as long as there's been an Angband to play. It's public domain, so we
> can't fault Blizzard for co-opting the idea, but they should at least
> admit that they did. 'Nuf said.
It is freeware, but not public domain. From the version.txt file:
:Copyright (c) 1997 Ben Harrison, James E. Wilson, Robert A. Koeneke
:
:This software may be copied and distributed for educational, research,
:and not for profit purposes provided that this copyright and statement
:are included in all such copies. Other copyrights may also apply.
So co-opting the idea is fine, as Blizzard did. Compiling the code and
selling it is not fine, as it would be if it were truly public domain.
Darin Takemoto
take...@xtal0.harvard.edu
take...@thecia.net
Mike Roca, Jr.
> So co-opting the idea is fine, as Blizzard did. Compiling the code and
> selling it is not fine, as it would be if it were truly public domain.
Blizzard certainly did not knowingly rip off Angband, rogue, etc. They
simply added to the genre of RPG games. There is barely any resemblance
of Diablo to Angband. They are two separate games and should be treated
as such. Last I heard, Angband was a ascii character turn-based
rogue-type game, while Diablo is a networkable real-time action, 3rd
person view, graphical adventure game. The best thing that stands out
in Diablo is the fact that you can play a networkable four player game
with anyone in the world. Diablo is one of the best games that blends
real-time RPG in a multiplayer setting. Players have the ability to
cooperate in order to explore the dungeon and work together in order to
defeat various creatures. Cooperation is the key to delving through the
dungeons, since each character class has their strengths and weaknesses.
Diablo didn't rip off Angband anymore than Marathon ripped off Doom. Or
anymore than Realmz ripped off AD&D. They are all separate games that
should be judged from their own merit.
-Mike
Cameron Booth
> There is barely any resemblance of Diablo to Angband.
If you're talking in terms of graphics and multi-player, no. But in terms
of the basic gist of the game and many nuances within, there IS A DEFINITE
SIMILARITY. As I wrote in my original post, in both games you venture into
randomly generated dungeons with the ultimate aim of destroying the Big
Bad monster at the bottom. In both games, there is a town where you can
sell and trade items etc. In both games, you can return to the town via a
spell/scroll and get back to where you were in the dungeon. In both games,
there are unique monsters and unique magic items. In both games, the same
tactics work (ie wait at doors and take monsters on one at a time). Need I
go on? THE SIMILARITIES ARE THERE -- YOU CANNOT DENY THAT. I never said
Diablo was a ripoff -- and I do think it's a fantastic game -- but it does
owe a debt to Angband type games, and you're kidding yourself if you can't
see it.
Cam
Cameron Booth
Martin Cox
>Diablo didn't rip off Angband anymore than Marathon ripped off Doom. Or
>anymore than Realmz ripped off AD&D. They are all separate games that
>should be judged from their own merit.
That last one was probably a bad choice of analogy! (At least, the earlier
versions - it's changed somewhat in the latest few...)
--
Martin Cox <mc...@ihug.co.nz>
The (Incomplete) VirtualPC User's Guide <http://shell.ihug.co.nz/~mcox/vpc/>
Cameron Booth
Mike Roca, Jr.
> If you're talking in terms of graphics and multi-player, no. But in terms
> of the basic gist of the game and many nuances within, there IS A DEFINITE
> SIMILARITY. As I wrote in my original post, in both games you venture into
> randomly generated dungeons with the ultimate aim of destroying the Big
> Bad monster at the bottom. In both games, there is a town where you can
> sell and trade items etc. In both games, you can return to the town via a
> spell/scroll and get back to where you were in the dungeon. In both games,
> there are unique monsters and unique magic items. In both games, the same
> tactics work (ie wait at doors and take monsters on one at a time). Need I
> go on? THE SIMILARITIES ARE THERE -- YOU CANNOT DENY THAT. I never said
> Diablo was a ripoff -- and I do think it's a fantastic game -- but it does
> owe a debt to Angband type games, and you're kidding yourself if you can't
> see it.
I wasn't responsing to you, I was responding to the person who claimed
that Blizzard shouldn't be allowed to make a game that very loosely
resembled an ancient ascii character game.
I agree with you, there are plenty of similarities to Angband and
Diablo. But, then again I can see basic similarities in tons of games
on the market today. Diablo is no exception. I could easily claim that
Quake owes a debt to the old Contra series (for the original Nintendo).
Both games involve a gun blazing character fighting his way from level
to level. In both games, you can pick up a collection of different
types of weapons that will aid you in blasting anything that stands in
his way in hopes of completing the game. But such comparisons are
unneeded.
Diablo can not be simplified as "Angband with way cool graphic" as you
claimed in your original message, there are distinct differences. What
next? Should I compare Myst to the original text based Zork?
Do you see my point? Each game should be judged on it's own merits, not
on what it's loosely similar too.
-Mike
take...@xtal0.harvard.edu
mention
my name.
Anyways, Darin Takemoto said:
>
> > So co-opting the idea is fine, as Blizzard did. Compiling the code and
> > selling it is not fine, as it would be if it were truly public domain.
>
> Diablo didn't rip off Angband anymore than Marathon ripped off Doom. Or
> anymore than Realmz ripped off AD&D. They are all separate games that
> should be judged from their own merit.
I agree. I said that what Blizzard did was fine. I was merely
stating
that Angband is not public domain, but copyrighted freeware, so
compiling
the source, adding graphics, and selling it is not ok. Unless
*you* are
implying that that is what Blizzard did, there is nothing in what
I said
that implies or states that anything Blizzard did was anything but
okey-
dokey.
Darin Takemoto
take...@xtal0.harvard.edu
take...@thecia.net
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Cameron Booth
----------
In article <6ndf29$f7d$1...@strato.ultra.net>, "Mike Roca, Jr."
<roca@remove*ultranet.com> wrote:
>I agree with you, there are plenty of similarities to Angband and
>Diablo.
>
>Do you see my point? Each game should be judged on it's own merits, not
>on what it's loosely similar too.
>
>-Mike
Fair enough. I see your point, you see mine. Nuff said.
- Cam
Michael Hayden
In article <6nbdfo$ecg$1...@strato.ultra.net>,
Mike Roca, Jr. <roca@remove*ultranet.com> wrote:
>Blizzard certainly did not knowingly rip off Angband, rogue, etc. They
>simply added to the genre of RPG games. There is barely any resemblance
>of Diablo to Angband. They are two separate games and should be treated
>as such. Last I heard, Angband was a ascii character turn-based
>rogue-type game, while Diablo is a networkable real-time action, 3rd
>person view, graphical adventure game. The best thing that stands out
>in Diablo is the fact that you can play a networkable four player game
>with anyone in the world.
[deletia]
You're talking implementation: real time vs turn based, tiled vs isometric
graphics (yes, the latest Angband is kinda sorta graphical), networkable
vs stand alone...
We're talking features. And when it comes to -features-, Angband and
Diablo are virtually identical: a first-person, non-party "dungeon crawl"
RPG/adventure. Player may be customized by class, stats, skills, spells,
etc. Player starts in a town level populated with various shopkeepers,
where they may buy weapons, armor, equipment, potions, whatever. Equipment
is used in a 'slot' method: head, torso, neck, ring fingers...
Player enters a randomly generated, multi-leveled dungeon with the
ultimate quest/goal of defeating the Big Bad Boss (tm) on the deepest
level. (In Diablo it is Diablo, in Angband it is Morgoth.) In order to
reach the Big Bad Boss (tm), the player must first defeat a penultimate
boss and open a special gateway. (In Diablo it is the Archbishop, in
Angband it is Sauron.)
Player proceeds to clean out each level of randomly generated and
distributed creatures, disarming traps, opening chests, and picking up
dropped treasures as they go. There are only a few general types of
monsters, but each type has many sub-types according to color, strength,
and abilities. As they complete each level, the player goes down a
stairway to the next.
Along the way the player also engages in side quests and fights certain
unique monsters, often with mobs of lesser followers as well. Player
periodically returns to town level (in Diablo it's Town Portal, in Angband
it's Word of Recall) to sell off treasure, have items identified, and/or
buy even more powerful equipment. Player is restricted in how much
equipment they can carry with them. (In Diablo it's by size, in Angband
it's by weight.) Equipment comes in 'standard' (white), 'enchanted'
(blue), and 'unique' (gold) varieties. Spells are learned via spellbooks.
Stats are increased via potions. Blah, blah, blah...
C'mon, anyone who still thinks that Angband and Diablo are not basically
the same game is seriously deluded. ;) Yes, there are other games like
Ultima Underworld that would fall into the same overall genre, but in a
head-to-head comparison of features, Diablo is still just Angband with
networking and nicer graphics. -Some- things are -slightly- different
(Diablo has better developed quests, Angband has better character
customization), but that's about it. Deal with it.
Iconoclast
I Recently found a very old game on my computer called Moria. Its had
aother names but basically to that jist. I never played angband so I
dont know about it, but I think This game came even ealier to both of
the ones mentioned above. The stucture is again the same, Random amount
of Chooses for caste, randomly generated dungons+monster, and of course
the town at the top and the big bad monster on the bottom, this time
caled the balrog. Well just my two cense.
Darin Takemoto
Yup, Angband is a descendant of Moria. So much so that Robert Koenecke, the
author of Moria, wrote part of the version.txt file, and Robert Koenecke is
mentioned in the copyright notice.
Darin Takemoto
take...@xtal0.harvard.edu
take...@thecia.net