80s' Macs Emulators

[Ant]

Hello.

Do 80s' Mac emulators exist? I would love to try this 1986's Gemstone
Warrior game that was ported for classic B&W Mac as shown in
https://www.myabandonware.com/game/gemstone-warrior-3ki ... It even has
the game in SIT format. I am trying
http://www.gryphel.com/c/minivmac/start.html, but it requires a Mac ROM.
Does anyone know where to get it?

Thank you in advance. :)
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[Jolly Roger]

Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
> Hello.
>
> Do 80s' Mac emulators exist?

80s Macs ran classic Mac OS. So:

Sheepshaver, Basilisk II, mini vMac, etc, etc, etc...

> I would love to try this 1986's Gemstone
> Warrior game

Some games run well, some don’t. Good luck.

> I am trying
> http://www.gryphel.com/c/minivmac/start.html, but it requires a Mac ROM.
> Does anyone know where to get it?

I’d try Sheepshaver first:

<https://emaculation.com/doku.php/sheepshaver>

I use one I pulled from one of my old Macs.

You could try one of these:

<http://macintoshgarden.org/forum/macintosh-rom-archive>

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[Your Name]

On 2018-01-13 01:10:25 +0000, Ant said:

> Hello.
>
> Do 80s' Mac emulators exist? I would love to try this 1986's Gemstone
> Warrior game that was ported for classic B&W Mac as shown in
> https://www.myabandonware.com/game/gemstone-warrior-3ki ... It even has
> the game in SIT format. I am trying
> http://www.gryphel.com/c/minivmac/start.html, but it requires a Mac ROM.
> Does anyone know where to get it?
>
> Thank you in advance. :)

The three main options to emulate old Macs are:

- Mini vMac (emulates 68K Macs, System 0 - 7.5)
<http://www.gryphel.com/c/minivmac/>

- Basilisk II (emulates 68K Macs, System 0 - 7.5)
<https://basilisk.cebix.net/>

and - Sheepshaver (emulates PowerPC Macs, OS 7.5 - 9)
<https://sheepshaver.cebix.net/>
Will also run early versions of Mac OS X, but that isn't supported.

In all cases you do need a ROM image from the real Mac, as well as the
system software install disk images, etc. Best to read the information
and guides at Emaculation.com, https://www.emaculation.com/doku.php but
even then it can be tricky to get it working properly.

Emaculation.com gives the suggestion (not an actual link) of
RedundantRobot.com, <http://www.redundantrobot.com/sheepshaver.html>
which has various Mac ROM images.

The best place for old Mac software (and help) is MacintoshGarden.org,
<http://macintoshgarden.org> but there are other places too.

[Ant]

Thanks guys. So far, I am currently trying Mini vMac in my old, updated
64-bit W7 HPE SP1 desktop PC. I got the old Mac ROMs from
https://www.macintoshrepository.org/7038-all-macintosh-roms-68k-ppc- web
page. I extracted its 128K's 1986-03 - 4D1F8172 - MacPlus v3.ROM file
and renamed it to vMac.ROM. I ran Mini vMac.exe and it booted up. I
heard its beep and saw its floppy disk icon with its "?". From what I
read, this is OK. At least it finds an old Mac ROM.

I ran into a new issue according from
https://www.emaculation.com/doku.php/mini_vmac_setup and
http://www.gryphel.com/c/minivmac/start.html web pages' instructions. I
downloaded and installed the decade old
http://www.emaculation.com/minivmac/StuffItStandard9.zip successfully.
However, running its installed program crashed due to Visual C++ runtime
error as shown in my uploaded
https://image.prntscr.com/image/1F4eXCK0RwCk6aPOmWNyMw.png screen
shot/capture. I can't use the newer StuffIt Expander for Windows version
(http://my.smithmicro.com/stuffit-expander-windows.html) since it
doesn't support *.sea.bin files
(http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_6.0.x/SSW_6.0.8-1.4MB_Disk1of2.sea.bin
and
http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_6.0.x/SSW_6.0.8-1.4MB_Disk2of2.sea.bin).
Argh. :(

Any ideas? Thank you in advance. :)

[Your Name]

On 2018-01-13 22:09:18 +0000, Ant said:

> Thanks guys. So far, I am currently trying Mini vMac in my old, updated
> 64-bit W7 HPE SP1 desktop PC. I got the old Mac ROMs from
> https://www.macintoshrepository.org/7038-all-macintosh-roms-68k-ppc- web
> page. I extracted its 128K's 1986-03 - 4D1F8172 - MacPlus v3.ROM file
> and renamed it to vMac.ROM. I ran Mini vMac.exe and it booted up. I
> heard its beep and saw its floppy disk icon with its "?". From what I
> read, this is OK. At least it finds an old Mac ROM.

Yes. The flashing question mark disk icon means it can't find a disk to
boot from.

> I ran into a new issue according from
> https://www.emaculation.com/doku.php/mini_vmac_setup and
> http://www.gryphel.com/c/minivmac/start.html web pages' instructions. I
> downloaded and installed the decade old
> http://www.emaculation.com/minivmac/StuffItStandard9.zip successfully.
> However, running its installed program crashed due to Visual C++ runtime
> error as shown in my uploaded
> https://image.prntscr.com/image/1F4eXCK0RwCk6aPOmWNyMw.png screen
> shot/capture. I can't use the newer StuffIt Expander for Windows version
> (http://my.smithmicro.com/stuffit-expander-windows.html) since it
> doesn't support *.sea.bin files
> (http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_6.0.x/SSW_6.0.8-1.4MB_Disk1of2.sea.bin
>
> and
> http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_6.0.x/SSW_6.0.8-1.4MB_Disk2of2.sea.bin).
>
> Argh. :(
>
> Any ideas? Thank you in advance. :)

NEVER EVER unarchive Mac application files on a Windoze PC, you'll ruin
them because Windoze doesn't understand the separate data fork and
resource fork used by Mac applications. That includes system installers
and ".sea" self-extracting archives.


Get the second download from the System 6 page at MacintoshGarden.org
<http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/system-6-collection>
It's a zip archive containing an System 6 boot disk - unzip that and
use it with Mini vMac.

Or, RedundantRobot.com has a System 7 hard drive image (30MB) for
SheepShaver, but it should work with Mini vMac as well.
<http://www.redundantrobot.com/sheepshaver_files/disk_images/MacStartupOS7.img>

[Ant]

In comp.sys.mac.games.action Your Name <Your...@yourisp.com> wrote:
> On 2018-01-13 22:09:18 +0000, Ant said:

> > Thanks guys. So far, I am currently trying Mini vMac in my old, updated
> > 64-bit W7 HPE SP1 desktop PC. I got the old Mac ROMs from
> > https://www.macintoshrepository.org/7038-all-macintosh-roms-68k-ppc- web
> > page. I extracted its 128K's 1986-03 - 4D1F8172 - MacPlus v3.ROM file
> > and renamed it to vMac.ROM. I ran Mini vMac.exe and it booted up. I
> > heard its beep and saw its floppy disk icon with its "?". From what I
> > read, this is OK. At least it finds an old Mac ROM.

> Yes. The flashing question mark disk icon means it can't find a disk to
> boot from.

That is what I thought.

> > I ran into a new issue according from
> > https://www.emaculation.com/doku.php/mini_vmac_setup and
> > http://www.gryphel.com/c/minivmac/start.html web pages' instructions. I
> > downloaded and installed the decade old
> > http://www.emaculation.com/minivmac/StuffItStandard9.zip successfully.
> > However, running its installed program crashed due to Visual C++ runtime
> > error as shown in my uploaded
> > https://image.prntscr.com/image/1F4eXCK0RwCk6aPOmWNyMw.png screen
> > shot/capture. I can't use the newer StuffIt Expander for Windows version
> > (http://my.smithmicro.com/stuffit-expander-windows.html) since it
> > doesn't support *.sea.bin files
> > (http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_6.0.x/SSW_6.0.8-1.4MB_Disk1of2.sea.bin
> >
> > and
> > http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_6.0.x/SSW_6.0.8-1.4MB_Disk2of2.sea.bin).
> >
> > Argh. :(
> >
> > Any ideas? Thank you in advance. :)

> NEVER EVER unarchive Mac application files on a Windoze PC, you'll ruin
> them because Windoze doesn't understand the separate data fork and
> resource fork used by Mac applications. That includes system installers
> and ".sea" self-extracting archives.

OK.

> Get the second download from the System 6 page at MacintoshGarden.org
> <http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/system-6-collection>
> It's a zip archive containing an System 6 boot disk - unzip that and
> use it with Mini vMac.

It worked.

> Or, RedundantRobot.com has a System 7 hard drive image (30MB) for
> SheepShaver, but it should work with Mini vMac as well.
> <http://www.redundantrobot.com/sheepshaver_files/disk_images/MacStartupOS7.img>

I wasn't not sure if this very old game ran in classic Mac OS 7. V6 worked nicely (fast
haha). I also tried v7, but it kept giving me "?". I guess its ROM doesn't support it, but
whatever.

HOWEVER, I just found out that I could boot Gemstone Warrior.dsk without System 6. Huh? I
thought classic Mac needed an OS to boot the game. I guess not! I didn't use a lot of very
old classic Mac back then. I did use a lot of Apple 2s though.

[Your Name]

On 2018-01-14 03:51:41 +0000, Ant said:
> In comp.sys.mac.games.action Your Name <Your...@yourisp.com> wrote:
>

<snip>

>> Get the second download from the System 6 page at MacintoshGarden.org
>> <http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/system-6-collection>
>> It's a zip archive containing an System 6 boot disk - unzip that and
>> use it with Mini vMac.
>
> It worked.

You should be able to use that to create a bootable hard drive image
file if you want, or just use a pile of disk images alongside that
System one. A hard drive image file is probably better since some
software will need to be installed on teh boot drive, and teh System 6
disk image probably hasn't got much free space.



<snip>

> HOWEVER, I just found out that I could boot Gemstone Warrior.dsk
> without System 6. Huh? I thought classic Mac needed an OS to boot the
> game. I guess not! I didn't use a lot of very old classic Mac back
> then. I did use a lot of Apple 2s though.

If the disk boots, then it must have a System Folder on it, even if
it's a cut-down one just to run the game - it may not have a Finder,
but is set to run the game instead after booting.

[Ant]

In comp.sys.mac.games.action Your Name <Your...@yourisp.com> wrote:
> <snip>

> > HOWEVER, I just found out that I could boot Gemstone Warrior.dsk
> > without System 6. Huh? I thought classic Mac needed an OS to boot the
> > game. I guess not! I didn't use a lot of very old classic Mac back
> > then. I did use a lot of Apple 2s though.

> If the disk boots, then it must have a System Folder on it, even if
> it's a cut-down one just to run the game - it may not have a Finder,
> but is set to run the game instead after booting.

Yes, it is a very simple OS. It did come with its Calculator, Note Pad,
Key Caps, control panel, etc. I tried to read the game's "Read Me
First!" document, but it couldn't find an application. I guess Note Pad
can't do it. :P

I had fun replaying this game that I used to play a lot on my Apple //c.
It was rad(ical) to see a Mac port since I never knew it existed. I
couldn't find any video recordings online, so I made my own:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLiTODPVxHAd9G_fnRSaHanW4sfCicIzwr
... ;)
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[Your Name]

On 2018-01-16 02:00:11 +0000, Ant said:
> In comp.sys.mac.games.action Your Name <Your...@yourisp.com> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>> HOWEVER, I just found out that I could boot Gemstone Warrior.dsk
>>> without System 6. Huh? I thought classic Mac needed an OS to boot the
>>> game. I guess not! I didn't use a lot of very old classic Mac back
>>> then. I did use a lot of Apple 2s though.
>>
>> If the disk boots, then it must have a System Folder on it, even if
>> it's a cut-down one just to run the game - it may not have a Finder,
>> but is set to run the game instead after booting.
>
> Yes, it is a very simple OS. It did come with its Calculator, Note Pad,
> Key Caps, control panel, etc. I tried to read the game's "Read Me
> First!" document, but it couldn't find an application. I guess Note Pad
> can't do it. :P
>
> I had fun replaying this game that I used to play a lot on my Apple //c.
> It was rad(ical) to see a Mac port since I never knew it existed. I
> couldn't find any video recordings online, so I made my own:
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLiTODPVxHAd9G_fnRSaHanW4sfCicIzwr
> ... ;)

According to MacintoshGarden.org, the game is b y Strategic Simulations
Inc. I never heard of that, but years ago we used to play a lot of
SSI's Dungeons & Dragons role-playing games on the Commodore 64 and
Amiga at home, and a few on the Apple II at school.

[Ant]

Which games did you play? From
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Strategic_Simulations_games' list,
I played Eye of Beholder games briefly on my IBM PCs after Apple 2's
Gemstone Warrior. Gemstone Warrior is like a primitive version of
Diablo, Gauntlet, and other games. Its control sucks and has bugs too.
Hence, why I am a fan of that genre. I also found there is a PC-88 port
too, but having problems with its shoot keys in M88 emulator. Argh.

[Your Name]

That link doesn't work (because of the ' on the end). This one does:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Strategic_Simulations_games>

> I played Eye of Beholder games briefly on my IBM PCs after Apple 2's
> Gemstone Warrior. Gemstone Warrior is like a primitive version of
> Diablo, Gauntlet, and other games. Its control sucks and has bugs too.
> Hence, why I am a fan of that genre. I also found there is a PC-88 port
> too, but having problems with its shoot keys in M88 emulator. Argh.

The games we played were mainly the Dungeons & Dragons ones - a quick
flick through that list I recognise these names:
- Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday
- Champions of Krynn
- Curse of the Azure Bonds
- The Dark Queen of Krynn
- Death Knights of Krynn
- Eye of the Beholder
- Eye of the Beholder II: The Legend of Darkmoon
- Pool of Radiance
- Pools of Darkness
- Realms of Darkness
- Secret of the Silver Blades
- Sword of Aragon

There may have been some more.

I've probably still got the maps we drew while playing at least some of
those somewhere in the many boxes and drawers of stuff around here.