Good <= 25" wide monitors to buy for action gaming, etc.?

[Ant]

Hello.

It looks like my very old 19" Samsung SyncMaster 931BF monitor is dying
since it has problems turning on (black screens, flickers to black and
display fast, etc.) on multiple desktop computers the last few cold
days. It is time to find a replacement.

-25" horizontal width max(imum)
-22" vertical height max(imum)
-Need to be able easily to rotate/move monitor due to the annoying sun
shining on to it since window blinds don't help. Glossy screens might be
problematic?
-Limited desk space due to bookshelves and stuff.
-Adjustable height.
-Tiltable.
-Still need VGA (still use it with my Beklin KVM from Y2K) and DVI ports
for old cables and computers (Linux, Windows, and Mac)
-No built in speakers unless they are included for free. :P
-Do a lot of Internet, watching videos, some gaming (action too so fast
speeds are required like <2 ms), basic graphic work, etc.

I noticed some current sales that might be good?
http://www.salescircular.com/ca/computer/mnitrp.shtml
http://www.salescircular.com/ca/video/tvsmlp.shtml
http://www.salescircular.com/ca/video/tvp.shtml

I want to see the new monitor in person with local retail stores like
Costco, Best Buy, Fry's Electronics, etc. before buying to be sure I
like it.

Thank you in advance. :)
--
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[Rin Stowleigh]

Right now you don't want to buy anything other than a G-SYNC monitor
for action gaming unless you want hard regrets a year from now, or
just want something cheap to get by until you have more time to
research it.

The thing is right now there is G-SYNC monitors and there is
everything else. Eventually there may be a war between G-SYNC and
VESA adaptive sync technologies, but Nvidia isn't planning to support
the VESA standard, they already have a solution today that works
brilliantly and probably always will work better than results that are
dependent on compatibility with open standards, and since they make
the best video cards (and have for many years now), that position is
not likely to change any time soon.

The probability of actually being able to your hands on one in person
at Costco or BestBuy or Frys is probably about the same as finding a
Costco or BestBuy clerk that is a knowledgeable PC gamer. No offense
but that plan of attack is barking up the wrong tree.

As far as your VGA and DVI requirements, that can be handled with
adapters.

Some say the ASUS ROG monitors have some sort of overagressive
anti-glare coating and don't like it because of it, but maybe that
would be a plus for you. Window glare specifically is usually easier
to manage with simple blinds/curtains or whatever than to buy a
monitor specifically to solve that issue, IMO.

The one I have is the Acer XB270H which is 27", larger than what
you've specified, but I promise once you game at 27" you will never go
back. If it feels a little too in-your-face for gaming, just do what
I do and put it on a stand which is easily slidable. I have mine set
up where I can easily slide the whole stand forward or back, usually
the distance range being about 3". Three inches is actually a lot of
viewing distance difference. I prefer it farther away for
reading/surfing/work and closer for gaming. It is incredibly
immersive when closer.

The monitors themselves aren't cheap, and if you don't already have an
Nvidia card that's an extra expense.

IMO AMD card owners would do well to dump their GPUs on ebay or
wherever and upgrade to Nvidia before the general public figures out
what is going on in the monitor space. I doubt AMD and the VESA
standard will catch up to this in the next three years.

[Mr Rob]

On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 07:14:33 -0800, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>Hello.
>
>It looks like my very old 19" Samsung SyncMaster 931BF monitor is dying
>since it has problems turning on (black screens, flickers to black and
>display fast, etc.) on multiple desktop computers the last few cold
>days. It is time to find a replacement.

I have a 19" Hanns G monitor that does that when the cold weather
arrives. When I'm at work all day and the room temperature drops (from
what I understand from researching the problem) a cracked piece of
solder on the PCB in the monitor hardens and stops the monitor from
working.

I was going to throw it out until I read a message board post that
suggesting blowing hot air inside the monitor through the back panel
with a hair dryer. Lo and behold - it actually works. It only takes
about 15 seconds of warm air through a big slot in the top of the back
panel and on it comes. Once it's on it stays on too.

Apparently the warm air softens the solder which completes the circuit
and allows the monitor to function. I don't use that monitor very
often as it's on a PC that only gets booted about once a week. I
suppose I would get fed up with doing that every day if I had to.

Nifty trick though.
--
Rob

[Rin Stowleigh]

In addition to temp cycling with regard to electronics, I'm also
careful about maintaining ideal humidity levels throughout my place,
not only because of computers and such but I have musical equipment
that's not only expensive but would be hard to replace.

Most people are aware of the temperatures in their living area (and
usually those temperature ranges aren't drastic enough to be too hard
on electronics) but often less attention is given to maintaining
relatively stable humidity levels.

A lot of times cracking is more a symptom of dry air than it is
shrinkage from cold (unless it's in extreme cold like outside). It
might seem counterintuitive that a hair dryer helps (but that is
because the effect of very high temps as opposed to a furnace or
whatever that is keeping air warm enough for comfort yet dehumidifying
it down to unacceptable levels).

[Ant]

On 12/24/2014 7:43 AM PT, Rin Stowleigh typed:

> Right now you don't want to buy anything other than a G-SYNC monitor
> for action gaming unless you want hard regrets a year from now, or
> just want something cheap to get by until you have more time to
> research it.

Well, I don't want to spend a lot of money. $200-300 is OK, but nothing
more!

> The thing is right now there is G-SYNC monitors and there is
> everything else. Eventually there may be a war between G-SYNC and
> VESA adaptive sync technologies, but Nvidia isn't planning to support
> the VESA standard, they already have a solution today that works
> brilliantly and probably always will work better than results that are
> dependent on compatibility with open standards, and since they make
> the best video cards (and have for many years now), that position is
> not likely to change any time soon.

G-SYNC is new to me. Do monitor specifications will say this on their
descriptions? I have not seen any of these so far. I saw IPS, LED, etc.
We still use VESA today? I remember VESA from DOS days! Wow.

> The probability of actually being able to your hands on one in person
> at Costco or BestBuy or Frys is probably about the same as finding a
> Costco or BestBuy clerk that is a knowledgeable PC gamer. No offense
> but that plan of attack is barking up the wrong tree.
>
> As far as your VGA and DVI requirements, that can be handled with
> adapters.

Currently, my old video cards (GeForce 8800 GT and ATI Radeon 4870) use
DVI ports and VGA adapters for VGA cables to my KVM to my old monitor. I
also have a direct DVI cable from one of my computers to the old monitor
so I can have low native non-stretched low screen resolutions for old
stuff like MAME.

> Some say the ASUS ROG monitors have some sort of overagressive
> anti-glare coating and don't like it because of it, but maybe that
> would be a plus for you. Window glare specifically is usually easier
> to manage with simple blinds/curtains or whatever than to buy a
> monitor specifically to solve that issue, IMO.

Well, my window rolling blinds do not do well to block a lot of sun in
the mornings and afternoon hours. I have to turn my monitor around a
little to avoid the glares on my old non-glossy monitor. :(

> The one I have is the Acer XB270H which is 27", larger than what
> you've specified, but I promise once you game at 27" you will never go
> back. If it feels a little too in-your-face for gaming, just do what

Small desk space and room are the problems, especially if I am going to
turn my monitor around to avoid the sun from the room's closed window.

> I do and put it on a stand which is easily slidable. I have mine set
> up where I can easily slide the whole stand forward or back, usually
> the distance range being about 3". Three inches is actually a lot of
> viewing distance difference. I prefer it farther away for
> reading/surfing/work and closer for gaming. It is incredibly
> immersive when closer.

I am near sighted so I will be close up. Currently, I am about 10 inches
("). from the screen. I don't wear eye glasses too.

> The monitors themselves aren't cheap, and if you don't already have an
> Nvidia card that's an extra expense.

I am planning to upgrade my very old video cards later on.

[Ant]

On 12/24/2014 8:46 AM PT, Mr Rob typed:

Interesting. Does it still work? I also noticed when the weather is hot
(e.g., 80+F degrees), the monitor's power button light flickers and
sometimes does not work (e.g., turn off, it turns on again -- haha).
Either way, my old monitor is getting worse in terms of power on/off so
I might as well replace it before it is totally dead. ;)

[Ant]

On 12/24/2014 9:25 AM PT, Rin Stowleigh typed:

> In addition to temp cycling with regard to electronics, I'm also
> careful about maintaining ideal humidity levels throughout my place,
> not only because of computers and such but I have musical equipment
> that's not only expensive but would be hard to replace.
>
> Most people are aware of the temperatures in their living area (and
> usually those temperature ranges aren't drastic enough to be too hard
> on electronics) but often less attention is given to maintaining
> relatively stable humidity levels.
>
> A lot of times cracking is more a symptom of dry air than it is
> shrinkage from cold (unless it's in extreme cold like outside). It
> might seem counterintuitive that a hair dryer helps (but that is
> because the effect of very high temps as opposed to a furnace or
> whatever that is keeping air warm enough for comfort yet dehumidifying
> it down to unacceptable levels).

Interesting. My rooms were cold as 60F degrees and hot up to almost 90F
degrees. Also, my rooms got dusty too. :(

[Rin Stowleigh]

On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 10:26:32 -0800, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>On 12/24/2014 7:43 AM PT, Rin Stowleigh typed:
>
>> Right now you don't want to buy anything other than a G-SYNC monitor
>> for action gaming unless you want hard regrets a year from now, or
>> just want something cheap to get by until you have more time to
>> research it.
>
>Well, I don't want to spend a lot of money. $200-300 is OK, but nothing
>more!

I understand the purpose of spending limitations, but a monitor is
usually a long-term piece of equipment that greatly impacts your
overall gaming experience. Some hardware purchases are expenditure
overkill, but with these monitors you really get what you pay for. If
you went from something like the 19" Samsung you have now to the Acer
XB270H, you would be floored.

On the other hand if you are already used to tearing, input lag,
microstutter and all the other problems inherent to non G-SYNC LCD
monitors, staying with something no worse than what you have is not
going to feel like a downgrade.

What I would do if I really wanted to save money is just buy something
like the 931bf Monitor repair Kit (new capacitors) for your existing
monitor for ten bucks off Amazon and be done with it. I wouldn't look
to upgrade until I was ready to do it right, but to each his own I
guess.

>
>> The thing is right now there is G-SYNC monitors and there is
>> everything else. Eventually there may be a war between G-SYNC and
>> VESA adaptive sync technologies, but Nvidia isn't planning to support
>> the VESA standard, they already have a solution today that works
>> brilliantly and probably always will work better than results that are
>> dependent on compatibility with open standards, and since they make
>> the best video cards (and have for many years now), that position is
>> not likely to change any time soon.
>
>G-SYNC is new to me. Do monitor specifications will say this on their
>descriptions? I have not seen any of these so far. I saw IPS, LED, etc.
>We still use VESA today? I remember VESA from DOS days! Wow.

They are very new in general. Yes the monitor specs and advertisement
should list them specifically as a 144hz GSYNC monitor, or they do not
have the required hardware inside the monitor. There is a 24" ASUS
that you can buy which can be retrofitted with the G SYNC kit later.
http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/diy

>
>> The probability of actually being able to your hands on one in person
>> at Costco or BestBuy or Frys is probably about the same as finding a
>> Costco or BestBuy clerk that is a knowledgeable PC gamer. No offense
>> but that plan of attack is barking up the wrong tree.
>>
>> As far as your VGA and DVI requirements, that can be handled with
>> adapters.
>
>Currently, my old video cards (GeForce 8800 GT and ATI Radeon 4870) use
>DVI ports and VGA adapters for VGA cables to my KVM to my old monitor. I
>also have a direct DVI cable from one of my computers to the old monitor
>so I can have low native non-stretched low screen resolutions for old
>stuff like MAME.

I also generally don't care for non-native resolutions, but I should
also point something out: This monitor was my upgrade from a CRT.

Yep -- even in the year 2014, despite buying many LCD monitors over
the years for non-gaming purposes, I refused to deal with all of the
horrible limitations and side effects of modern LCDs (most of which
are particularly pronounced with fast paced action games). Native vs
non-native resolutions were one of the reasons I held out for so long.
It was bad enough that I had a stash of two more spare 22" 1600x1200
CRTs for when my primary one died (it was still going strong when I
retired it). I was unwilling to deal with blur/input
lag/tearing/stuttering etc. caused by monitor technology that was
designed to enhance text and be more energy efficient, but was never
designed to facilitate action gaming.

So, the fact that I can say this monitor is a big upgrade over my CRTs
is a huge statement about the technology.

About MAME, I have only had this monitor a couple of months and have
only run a couple of MAME games so far to see how well it does as an
arcade replacement, but in the tests I've done were very impressed and
yes it was definitely an upgrade over my CRT (which ironically is what
arcade games were originally developed for). The increased brightness
and color richness of an LCD over an aging CRT (remember all monitors
lose their luster over time) for example makes Donkey Kong look much
more authentic in the sense of being reminiscent of a brand new game
cabinet from the 80's, as opposed to a cabinet that's been sitting in
a smoky bar for a decade or two. No, it's not running at native
resolution but the net effect isn't really that different than a low
resolution game running on a giant arcade monitor as it did back in
the day. In other words, don't worry, MAME and GSYNC make for good
bedfellows.

>
>> Some say the ASUS ROG monitors have some sort of overagressive
>> anti-glare coating and don't like it because of it, but maybe that
>> would be a plus for you. Window glare specifically is usually easier
>> to manage with simple blinds/curtains or whatever than to buy a
>> monitor specifically to solve that issue, IMO.
>
>Well, my window rolling blinds do not do well to block a lot of sun in
>the mornings and afternoon hours. I have to turn my monitor around a
>little to avoid the glares on my old non-glossy monitor. :(

Cheap curtain rod and a dark colored curtain would solve that one.

>
>> The one I have is the Acer XB270H which is 27", larger than what
>> you've specified, but I promise once you game at 27" you will never go
>> back. If it feels a little too in-your-face for gaming, just do what
>
>Small desk space and room are the problems, especially if I am going to
>turn my monitor around to avoid the sun from the room's closed window.

The monitor itself won't be a problem there, the size of the stand you
put it on might though. I'm pretty sure you could work this one out
easily enough.

>
>> I do and put it on a stand which is easily slidable. I have mine set
>> up where I can easily slide the whole stand forward or back, usually
>> the distance range being about 3". Three inches is actually a lot of
>> viewing distance difference. I prefer it farther away for
>> reading/surfing/work and closer for gaming. It is incredibly
>> immersive when closer.
>
>I am near sighted so I will be close up. Currently, I am about 10 inches
>("). from the screen. I don't wear eye glasses too.

If small text is a problem for you, you'd love a 27" screen at 1080p.

[Tim O]

On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 16:46:20 +0000, Mr Rob
<noemail...@jsjsaiiowppw.com> wrote:

You could get a heat gun expressly made for the bulk heating of
electronics. They're cheap, but maybe not worth it if you're only
gonna use it once.

The fact that the solder joint on yours is so touchy that a hair dryer
is enough to fix it would probably make it a tough one to spot.

Tim

[Mr Rob]

On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 10:28:53 -0800, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>On 12/24/2014 8:46 AM PT, Mr Rob typed:
>

>Interesting. Does it still work?

Yes it does

I've been giving it "the hairdryer treatment" for about 3 years,
possibly even 4 years.
--
Rob

[Ant]

On 12/24/2014 11:51 AM PT, Rin Stowleigh typed:

>>> Right now you don't want to buy anything other than a G-SYNC monitor
>>> for action gaming unless you want hard regrets a year from now, or
>>> just want something cheap to get by until you have more time to
>>> research it.
>>
>> Well, I don't want to spend a lot of money. $200-300 is OK, but nothing
>> more!
>
> I understand the purpose of spending limitations, but a monitor is
> usually a long-term piece of equipment that greatly impacts your
> overall gaming experience. Some hardware purchases are expenditure
> overkill, but with these monitors you really get what you pay for. If
> you went from something like the 19" Samsung you have now to the Acer
> XB270H, you would be floored.

How long do new monitors last these days? According to past experiences
like in http://zimage.com/~ant/antfarm/about/toys.html history, my new
monitors only lasted several years (e.g., five/5). I'd hate to buy
something expensive and then it didn't last long. :/

> On the other hand if you are already used to tearing, input lag,
> microstutter and all the other problems inherent to non G-SYNC LCD
> monitors, staying with something no worse than what you have is not
> going to feel like a downgrade.

With CRTs and my current LCD monitor, I have not noticed that. The only
thing is colors, small size, and the power issues.

>
> What I would do if I really wanted to save money is just buy something
> like the 931bf Monitor repair Kit (new capacitors) for your existing
> monitor for ten bucks off Amazon and be done with it. I wouldn't look
> to upgrade until I was ready to do it right, but to each his own I
> guess.

Nah. I am ready to toss this old monitor and get some better and a
little bigger. :)

>>> The thing is right now there is G-SYNC monitors and there is
>>> everything else. Eventually there may be a war between G-SYNC and
>>> VESA adaptive sync technologies, but Nvidia isn't planning to support
>>> the VESA standard, they already have a solution today that works
>>> brilliantly and probably always will work better than results that are
>>> dependent on compatibility with open standards, and since they make
>>> the best video cards (and have for many years now), that position is
>>> not likely to change any time soon.
>>
>> G-SYNC is new to me. Do monitor specifications will say this on their
>> descriptions? I have not seen any of these so far. I saw IPS, LED, etc.
>> We still use VESA today? I remember VESA from DOS days! Wow.
>
> They are very new in general. Yes the monitor specs and advertisement
> should list them specifically as a 144hz GSYNC monitor, or they do not
> have the required hardware inside the monitor. There is a 24" ASUS
> that you can buy which can be retrofitted with the G SYNC kit later.
> http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/diy

It's new? Hmm, I think I will wait then. I don't game that much these
days too. I do game once in a while.

>>> The probability of actually being able to your hands on one in person
>>> at Costco or BestBuy or Frys is probably about the same as finding a
>>> Costco or BestBuy clerk that is a knowledgeable PC gamer. No offense
>>> but that plan of attack is barking up the wrong tree.
>>>
>>> As far as your VGA and DVI requirements, that can be handled with
>>> adapters.
>>
>> Currently, my old video cards (GeForce 8800 GT and ATI Radeon 4870) use
>> DVI ports and VGA adapters for VGA cables to my KVM to my old monitor. I
>> also have a direct DVI cable from one of my computers to the old monitor
>> so I can have low native non-stretched low screen resolutions for old
>> stuff like MAME.
>
> I also generally don't care for non-native resolutions, but I should
> also point something out: This monitor was my upgrade from a CRT.

Ha, I couldn't find good new CRT monitors before I bought this Samsung
931BF monitor. :O

> Yep -- even in the year 2014, despite buying many LCD monitors over
> the years for non-gaming purposes, I refused to deal with all of the
> horrible limitations and side effects of modern LCDs (most of which
> are particularly pronounced with fast paced action games). Native vs
> non-native resolutions were one of the reasons I held out for so long.
> It was bad enough that I had a stash of two more spare 22" 1600x1200
> CRTs for when my primary one died (it was still going strong when I
> retired it). I was unwilling to deal with blur/input
> lag/tearing/stuttering etc. caused by monitor technology that was
> designed to enhance text and be more energy efficient, but was never
> designed to facilitate action gaming.

Yep. I still prefer CRTs. Heh!

> So, the fact that I can say this monitor is a big upgrade over my CRTs
> is a huge statement about the technology.

Wow, that good eh?

> About MAME, I have only had this monitor a couple of months and have
> only run a couple of MAME games so far to see how well it does as an
> arcade replacement, but in the tests I've done were very impressed and
> yes it was definitely an upgrade over my CRT (which ironically is what
> arcade games were originally developed for). The increased brightness
> and color richness of an LCD over an aging CRT (remember all monitors
> lose their luster over time) for example makes Donkey Kong look much
> more authentic in the sense of being reminiscent of a brand new game
> cabinet from the 80's, as opposed to a cabinet that's been sitting in
> a smoky bar for a decade or two. No, it's not running at native
> resolution but the net effect isn't really that different than a low
> resolution game running on a giant arcade monitor as it did back in
> the day. In other words, don't worry, MAME and GSYNC make for good
> bedfellows.

Nice, but GSYNC is expensive and new. :/

>>> Some say the ASUS ROG monitors have some sort of overagressive
>>> anti-glare coating and don't like it because of it, but maybe that
>>> would be a plus for you. Window glare specifically is usually easier
>>> to manage with simple blinds/curtains or whatever than to buy a
>>> monitor specifically to solve that issue, IMO.
>>
>> Well, my window rolling blinds do not do well to block a lot of sun in
>> the mornings and afternoon hours. I have to turn my monitor around a
>> little to avoid the glares on my old non-glossy monitor. :(
>
> Cheap curtain rod and a dark colored curtain would solve that one.

And have to replace this a couple years old white blinds. :P

>>> The one I have is the Acer XB270H which is 27", larger than what
>>> you've specified, but I promise once you game at 27" you will never go
>>> back. If it feels a little too in-your-face for gaming, just do what
>>
>> Small desk space and room are the problems, especially if I am going to
>> turn my monitor around to avoid the sun from the room's closed window.
>
> The monitor itself won't be a problem there, the size of the stand you
> put it on might though. I'm pretty sure you could work this one out
> easily enough.

How big is the stand?

>>> I do and put it on a stand which is easily slidable. I have mine set
>>> up where I can easily slide the whole stand forward or back, usually
>>> the distance range being about 3". Three inches is actually a lot of
>>> viewing distance difference. I prefer it farther away for
>>> reading/surfing/work and closer for gaming. It is incredibly
>>> immersive when closer.
>>
>> I am near sighted so I will be close up. Currently, I am about 10 inches
>> ("). from the screen. I don't wear eye glasses too.
>
> If small text is a problem for you, you'd love a 27" screen at 1080p.

My old compound eyes seem OK for my old monitor. My elder parents don't
like it. Haha. Another reason to replace it.

[Ant]

On 12/24/2014 1:22 PM PT, Mr Rob typed:

>> Interesting. Does it still work?
>
> Yes it does
>
> I've been giving it "the hairdryer treatment" for about 3 years,
> possibly even 4 years.

Wow, but you do it rarely since you don't use the machine often.

[Mr Rob]

On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 23:10:03 -0800, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>On 12/24/2014 1:22 PM PT, Mr Rob typed:
>
>>> Interesting. Does it still work?
>>
>> Yes it does
>>
>> I've been giving it "the hairdryer treatment" for about 3 years,
>> possibly even 4 years.
>
>Wow, but you do it rarely since you don't use the machine often.

About once a week.

More than that and I think I would just buy a new monitor.

--
Rob

[Rin Stowleigh]

On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 23:09:18 -0800, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>On 12/24/2014 11:51 AM PT, Rin Stowleigh typed:
>
>>>> Right now you don't want to buy anything other than a G-SYNC monitor
>>>> for action gaming unless you want hard regrets a year from now, or
>>>> just want something cheap to get by until you have more time to
>>>> research it.
>>>
>>> Well, I don't want to spend a lot of money. $200-300 is OK, but nothing
>>> more!
>>
>> I understand the purpose of spending limitations, but a monitor is
>> usually a long-term piece of equipment that greatly impacts your
>> overall gaming experience. Some hardware purchases are expenditure
>> overkill, but with these monitors you really get what you pay for. If
>> you went from something like the 19" Samsung you have now to the Acer
>> XB270H, you would be floored.
>
>How long do new monitors last these days? According to past experiences
>like in http://zimage.com/~ant/antfarm/about/toys.html history, my new
>monitors only lasted several years (e.g., five/5). I'd hate to buy
>something expensive and then it didn't last long. :/

I typically get a lot more more than 5 years out of monitors. It's
hard for me to say how long they typically last because of how I tend
to repurpose old hardware or sell it or give it away in some cases.
Sometimes a previously primary monitor might become a secondary
monitor in a dual screen setup if I upgrade. I have not yet had to
toss one out simply because it stopped working. I have a Viewsonic
that I bought around '05-'06 that had a power supply die after 2 years
- it was still under warranty so I sent it in for PS replacement and
it has worked fine ever since. It is starting to exhibit some burn-in
problems but since I'm no longer using it as a primary monitor.

I suspect monitor and TV longevity is like a lot of things, how well
they hold up will depend on the environmental conditions around them,
and I'm diligent about temp/humidity levels so maybe I get more life
out of electronics than average.

One way or the other I see a monitor as a long-term use item, maybe
7-8 years on average?

>
>> On the other hand if you are already used to tearing, input lag,
>> microstutter and all the other problems inherent to non G-SYNC LCD
>> monitors, staying with something no worse than what you have is not
>> going to feel like a downgrade.
>
>With CRTs and my current LCD monitor, I have not noticed that. The only
>thing is colors, small size, and the power issues.

You probably wouldn't see stutter/input lag much on a CRT, and you'd
be unlikely to see tearing if you tend to sync to the refresh rate of
the monitor (and since CRTs have a variety of refresh rates available,
it tends to not be as much of an issue in most games). As far as the
current LCD monitor, I have no experience with the model you have but
most of the LCDs I've tried prior to this one bothered me in some way,
whether blurring or whatever.

Blur Busters is a decent website to learn about some of the issues
that are inherent to LCDs (most of which BTW are solved, at least to
acceptable levels, with GSYNC). http://www.blurbusters.com/

I think that kit has been out for close to a year, but G-SYNC in
general is a new technology. I wouldn't let that be a turn off,
Nvidia is very good about not releasing things that are half-baked and
they are second-to-none with regard to working with outside vendors to
be sure things are done right.

I have heard zero complaints about G-SYNC itself as a technology. Some
folks have expressed concerns about certain monitors (like some folks
think the menus on the ASUS monitors are screwy) but that's a vendor
specific niggle that comes down to individual preferences for
monitors.

>
>>>> The probability of actually being able to your hands on one in person
>>>> at Costco or BestBuy or Frys is probably about the same as finding a
>>>> Costco or BestBuy clerk that is a knowledgeable PC gamer. No offense
>>>> but that plan of attack is barking up the wrong tree.
>>>>
>>>> As far as your VGA and DVI requirements, that can be handled with
>>>> adapters.
>>>
>>> Currently, my old video cards (GeForce 8800 GT and ATI Radeon 4870) use
>>> DVI ports and VGA adapters for VGA cables to my KVM to my old monitor. I
>>> also have a direct DVI cable from one of my computers to the old monitor
>>> so I can have low native non-stretched low screen resolutions for old
>>> stuff like MAME.
>>
>> I also generally don't care for non-native resolutions, but I should
>> also point something out: This monitor was my upgrade from a CRT.
>
>Ha, I couldn't find good new CRT monitors before I bought this Samsung
>931BF monitor. :O

They went the way of the dinosaurs.

>> Yep -- even in the year 2014, despite buying many LCD monitors over
>> the years for non-gaming purposes, I refused to deal with all of the
>> horrible limitations and side effects of modern LCDs (most of which
>> are particularly pronounced with fast paced action games). Native vs
>> non-native resolutions were one of the reasons I held out for so long.
>> It was bad enough that I had a stash of two more spare 22" 1600x1200
>> CRTs for when my primary one died (it was still going strong when I
>> retired it). I was unwilling to deal with blur/input
>> lag/tearing/stuttering etc. caused by monitor technology that was
>> designed to enhance text and be more energy efficient, but was never
>> designed to facilitate action gaming.
>
>Yep. I still prefer CRTs. Heh!
>
>> So, the fact that I can say this monitor is a big upgrade over my CRTs
>> is a huge statement about the technology.
>
>Wow, that good eh?

Yes. I can honestly say I no longer miss my CRTs.

Circular & a little under 10" diameter with the stem near the rear of
the stand.

You can see specs/pics pretty easily by looking a particular model
you're interest in on newegg.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0AJ27R2744&cm_re=XB270H-_-24-009-657-_-Product

Although, above I was referring to the size of the stand you might
want to put the monitor on. You wouldn't have to, it's fully height
adjustable without any other stands, but the rubberized bottom of the
base would not slide closer or farther easily (as I was describing as
a nice-to-have, in case you like adjustable gaming and reading
distances). I guess you could put sliders on the bottom you get from
hardware stores for a buck or to, but by putting the monitor on
another stand you can also gain desk space (for example the type of
monitor stand that lets you slide the keyboard underneath it, or some
of them have small storage shelves in them). As I mentioned the big
advantage for me is that I can quickly adjust the viewing distance.

[Ant]

I noticed some current sales that might be good the day after Christmas
2014 on
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?nrp=15&cp=1&seeAll=Features&id=pcat17071&_dyncharset=UTF-8&ks=960&sc=Global&list=y&usc=All%20Categories&type=page&iht=n&browsedCategory=pcmcat143700050048&st=pcmcat143700050048_categoryid%24abcat0509000&qp=condition_facet%3DCondition~New^monitorscreensizerange_facet%3DScreen%20Size~21%22%20-%2022.9%22^monitorscreensizerange_facet%3DScreen%20Size~23%22%20-%2024.9%22^currentoffers_facet%3DCurrent%20Offers~On%20Sale^features_facet%3DFeatures~Tiltable^features_facet%3DFeatures~Adjustable%20Stand%20Height
OR http://preview.tinyurl.com/naaom67 ... What do you think about those?
Some of them have high response times though. :(

FYI:
My old 19" 5:4 Samsung SyncMaster 931BF monitor seems to be dying, so it
is time for me to find and buy a new bigger and better monitor. Here is
what I am looking for:

-25" horizontal width max(imum)
-22" vertical height max(imum)
-Need to be able easily to rotate/move monitor due to the annoying sun
shining on to it since window blinds don't help. Glossy screens might be
problematic?
-Limited desk space due to bookshelves and stuff.

-Adjustable height and tiltable.
-Still need VGA (still use it 99% of the times with my Beklin KVM from
Y2K) and DVI ports for very old computer setups (Linux, Windows, and
Mac). Still using old ATI Radeon 4870 and GeForce 8800 GT video cards
(512 MB of VRAM).
-8-bit colors (16.7 million colors)
-Extra features not needed unless they are included for free: touch
screen, built in speakers, 4K, screen rotation, etc.
-Do a lot of Internet, watching videos, some gaming (action/FPS too so
fast speeds are required; <5? ms response times?), basic graphic work, etc.
-<$300 including taxes, etc.

I want to see the new monitor in person with local retail stores like
Costco, Best Buy, Fry's Electronics, etc. before buying to be sure I
like it.

--
"I do not believe that the Great Society is the ordered, changeless and
sterile battalion of the ants. It is the excitement of becoming--always
becoming, trying, probing, falling, resting and trying again--but always
trying and always gaining. In each generation--with toil and tears--we
have had to earn our heritage again." --Lyndon B. Johnson

[Rin Stowleigh]

Some of those are IPS panels which are no good for action gaming.

[Ant]

On 12/26/2014 10:01 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
> Some of those are IPS panels which are no good for action gaming.

So, all IPS panels are for action games like FPSes? That's news to me.
Thanks for the tips. :)
--
"Every ruler sleeps on an anthill." --Afghani

[Tim O]

I have a Samsung Syncmaster 214t on one of the secondary machines that
was intermittently going black. These are great monitors for photo
editing and other stuff. I replaced it because I don't have a ton of
free time, but I'm going to recap/resolder it after the holidays.

I'll take pics as I go and post some if anyone cares. Complete cap kit
for this monitor is under $10 and reflowing the CFL joints is free.

[Mr Rob]

On Fri, 26 Dec 2014 15:46:21 -0500, Tim O <timo56...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I have a Samsung Syncmaster 214t on one of the secondary machines that
>was intermittently going black. These are great monitors for photo
>editing and other stuff. I replaced it because I don't have a ton of
>free time, but I'm going to recap/resolder it after the holidays.
>
>I'll take pics as I go and post some if anyone cares. Complete cap kit
>for this monitor is under $10 and reflowing the CFL joints is free.

That would be interesting to see.

I've had one or two other people tell me that monitors can be quite
easy to repair if you know what to do.
--
Rob

[Rin Stowleigh]

On Fri, 26 Dec 2014 11:17:33 -0800, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>On 12/26/2014 10:01 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
>> Some of those are IPS panels which are no good for action gaming.
>
>So, all IPS panels are for action games like FPSes? That's news to me.
>Thanks for the tips. :)

Heh... no I think you'll want to read what I wrote again after the
eggnog wears off ;)

[Ant]

>>> Some of those are IPS panels which are no good for action gaming.
>>

>> So, all IPS panels are NO for action games like FPSes? That's news to me.

>> Thanks for the tips. :)
>
> Heh... no I think you'll want to read what I wrote again after the
> eggnog wears off ;)

Crap, I missed a word when I typed that. I just added it in above.
Thanks, and I didn't even drink an eggnog. ;) Anyways, I removed all IPS
panel monitors from my list.
--
"Ants never sleep." --Ralph Waldo Emerson, poet

/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.

A song (i/wa)s playing on this computer: Norrius Music - Guardians Of
Arcadia (ripped from YouTube)

[Rin Stowleigh]

On Fri, 26 Dec 2014 15:17:45 -0800, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>>>> Some of those are IPS panels which are no good for action gaming.
>>>
>>> So, all IPS panels are NO for action games like FPSes? That's news to me.
>>> Thanks for the tips. :)
>>
>> Heh... no I think you'll want to read what I wrote again after the
>> eggnog wears off ;)
>
>Crap, I missed a word when I typed that. I just added it in above.
>Thanks, and I didn't even drink an eggnog. ;) Anyways, I removed all IPS
>panel monitors from my list.

Well there are some folks that do use IPS panels for gaming, they just
seem to always be behind TN panels when it comes to speed, so if
action gaming is important to you I think you'd do better to exclude
them. TN panels do have the disadvantage of worse viewing angles, but
honestly on this Acer I don't even notice it.

The latest issue of PC Gamer reviews gaming monitors, and their top
three picks are all G-Sync monitors. I think they must have not been
able to get their hands on a XB270H because they reviewed the Acer
XB280HK, which they ranked second behind the ASUS ROG Swift PG278Q.
The XB280HK is a 4K monitor that can only do 60hz, making it a
completely different animal than the XB270H, where IMO the 144hz is
one of the main features. The ASUS monitor does 144hz but community
feedback indicates the XB270H is better, there are a number of people
who returned their ASUS ROGs for the Acer and are glad they did. I
think part of that may be that by gaming at 1080p you generally get a
more fluid and responsive framerate in most games. My rig could no
doubt pull great frame rates in all current games even with the
2560x1440 native res of the ASUS ROG, but not everybody has dual
gtx980s in SLI and I think the single GPU setup of the average gamer
would run into quite a few titles that struggle at resolutions beyond
1080p -- even if not now then with future games.

[Ant]

What do you think of these two/2 ASUS VS Series VS2..H-P monitors?

24" ASUS VS Series VS247H-P Black (bigger, speakers, & TV tuner) =
$164.99 after $20 rebate -- http://frys.com/product/6902147 (2 ms)

23" ASUS VS Series VS238H-P (brighter) = $159.99 after $20 rebate --
http://frys.com/product/6999317 (2 ms)

I might go to Fry's Electronics tomorrow night to see them in person and
maybe buy one/1. Thank you in advance. :)
--
"It is not enough to be industrious; so are the ants. What are you
industrious about?" --Henry David Thoreau

[Tim O]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 01:06:44 -0800, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>What do you think of these two/2 ASUS VS Series VS2..H-P monitors?
>
>24" ASUS VS Series VS247H-P Black (bigger, speakers, & TV tuner) =
>$164.99 after $20 rebate -- http://frys.com/product/6902147 (2 ms)
>
>23" ASUS VS Series VS238H-P (brighter) = $159.99 after $20 rebate --
>http://frys.com/product/6999317 (2 ms)
>
>I might go to Fry's Electronics tomorrow night to see them in person and
>maybe buy one/1. Thank you in advance. :)

I have a 28" Asus and I'm happy with it. The Asus replaced a 23"
Samsung and its *bright*. The whites were almost glaring out of the
box and colors were a bit wacky... Blue's were almost purple.

Basically what I'm saying is that it took more fiddling than normal to
get the colors right, but once you get the contrast and color tweaked
the image is very nice.

As far as frame rates go, I'm probably not the best to comment on it.
I still play lots of ancient console games. Those are way harder than
new games, and framerates vary wildy and you're lucky to get 20fps.

Basically I'm not a diva, I just overcome the situation. Its just a
computer game, not splitting atoms. lol

Good luck in your hunt!

[Rin Stowleigh]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 01:06:44 -0800, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>What do you think of these two/2 ASUS VS Series VS2..H-P monitors?
>
>24" ASUS VS Series VS247H-P Black (bigger, speakers, & TV tuner) =
>$164.99 after $20 rebate -- http://frys.com/product/6902147 (2 ms)
>
>23" ASUS VS Series VS238H-P (brighter) = $159.99 after $20 rebate --
>http://frys.com/product/6999317 (2 ms)
>
>I might go to Fry's Electronics tomorrow night to see them in person and
>maybe buy one/1. Thank you in advance. :)

Not sure if the question is for me specifically, or the group in
general, but the only monitor I could recommend for gaming that does
not come equipped with G-Sync out of the box would be the ASUS VG248QE
2" (that's the one where you can install the G-Sync hardware later if
you don't mind voiding the warranty). That model would be in your
price range, even though it's about $100 more than the ones you listed
above.

The monitors you listed are not designed with gaming in mind. If I
want to drive nails into wood I wouldn't try to do it with a pair of
pliers, I'd look for the right tool for the job. Just depends on what
you want to do with the monitor. I'm assuming based on the amount of
time you've dedicated to this post that the emphasis is on action
gaming.

You can see which monitors are designed for which purpose at each
vendors' website, for example all of Asus's current (not discontinued
models are here):

http://www.asus.com/us/Monitors

The ASUS VG248QE is your best bet in a decent-priced 24" that has the
potential to be a G-Sync monitor with the DIY kit.

That's about all I've got for you in terms of specific monitor models.
Good luck

[Ant]

On 12/28/2014 5:10 AM, Tim O wrote:

> I have a 28" Asus and I'm happy with it. The Asus replaced a 23"
> Samsung and its *bright*. The whites were almost glaring out of the
> box and colors were a bit wacky... Blue's were almost purple.
>
> Basically what I'm saying is that it took more fiddling than normal to
> get the colors right, but once you get the contrast and color tweaked
> the image is very nice.

Really? How annoying. How long did that take to tweak? :(

> As far as frame rates go, I'm probably not the best to comment on it.
> I still play lots of ancient console games. Those are way harder than
> new games, and framerates vary wildy and you're lucky to get 20fps.

Ancient console games like from the (19)80s? If so, then doesn't your
screen size, graphics, etc. look different from a true CRT?

> Basically I'm not a diva, I just overcome the situation. Its just a
> computer game, not splitting atoms. lol

Well, I am picky and want the best I can get. ;)

> Good luck in your hunt!

Thanks. :)
--
"Yeah, what's left of it. I was in the militia -- national guard...
That's good! Wasn't any war any more than there's war between men and
ants." --stranger; "And we're eat-able ants. I found that out... What
will they do with us?" --Pierson from H.G. Wells' The War of the Worlds

[Jolly Roger]

On 2014-12-28, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> On 12/28/2014 5:10 AM, Tim O wrote:
>
>> I have a 28" Asus and I'm happy with it. The Asus replaced a 23"
>> Samsung and its *bright*. The whites were almost glaring out of the
>> box and colors were a bit wacky... Blue's were almost purple.
>>
>> Basically what I'm saying is that it took more fiddling than normal to
>> get the colors right, but once you get the contrast and color tweaked
>> the image is very nice.
>
> Really? How annoying. How long did that take to tweak? :(

This is typical for el-cheap-o monitors. If your top goal is spending
the least amount, you're going to get shit. ; )

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[Ant]

On 12/28/2014 6:12 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

>> What do you think of these two/2 ASUS VS Series VS2..H-P monitors?
>>
>> 24" ASUS VS Series VS247H-P Black (bigger, speakers, & TV tuner) =
>> $164.99 after $20 rebate -- http://frys.com/product/6902147 (2 ms)
>>
>> 23" ASUS VS Series VS238H-P (brighter) = $159.99 after $20 rebate --
>> http://frys.com/product/6999317 (2 ms)
>>
>> I might go to Fry's Electronics tomorrow night to see them in person and
>> maybe buy one/1. Thank you in advance. :)
>
> Not sure if the question is for me specifically, or the group in
> general, but the only monitor I could recommend for gaming that does

It was for everyone including yourself. :)

> not come equipped with G-Sync out of the box would be the ASUS VG248QE
> 2" (that's the one where you can install the G-Sync hardware later if
> you don't mind voiding the warranty). That model would be in your
> price range, even though it's about $100 more than the ones you listed
> above.

Heh, that would be three/3 years IIRC. I doubt I would get a G-Sync
hardware before the warranty ends. I don't need G-Sync now for sure. I
am even surprised the warranty is not a year long.

> The monitors you listed are not designed with gaming in mind. If I

Even with the low 2ms response times? :(

> want to drive nails into wood I wouldn't try to do it with a pair of
> pliers, I'd look for the right tool for the job. Just depends on what
> you want to do with the monitor. I'm assuming based on the amount of
> time you've dedicated to this post that the emphasis is on action
> gaming.

It's more than gaming (rare though due to work, BUSY life, etc.). I do a
lot of Internet, watching videos, basic graphic work, etc.

> You can see which monitors are designed for which purpose at each
> vendors' website, for example all of Asus's current (not discontinued
> models are here):
>
> http://www.asus.com/us/Monitors
>
> The ASUS VG248QE is your best bet in a decent-priced 24" that has the
> potential to be a G-Sync monitor with the DIY kit.

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/diy shows how to do
it. Hmm, so it is basically like a video card for the monitor instead of
the computer?

> That's about all I've got for you in terms of specific monitor models.
> Good luck

Thanks again. :)
--
"When you have seen one ant, one bird, one tree, you have not seen them
all." --Edward O. Wilson, 1992

[Ant]

On 12/28/2014 8:02 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:
...

> This is typical for el-cheap-o monitors. If your top goal is spending
> the least amount, you're going to get shit. ; )

Define el-cheap-o monitors. Like $200 are cheapos? :(
--
"The shadows now so long do grow,... That brambles like tall cedars
show,... Molehills seem mountains, and the ant... Appears a monstrous
elephant." --Charles Cotton's poem

[Tim O]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 07:55:47 -0800, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>On 12/28/2014 5:10 AM, Tim O wrote:
>
>> I have a 28" Asus and I'm happy with it. The Asus replaced a 23"
>> Samsung and its *bright*. The whites were almost glaring out of the
>> box and colors were a bit wacky... Blue's were almost purple.
>>
>> Basically what I'm saying is that it took more fiddling than normal to
>> get the colors right, but once you get the contrast and color tweaked
>> the image is very nice.
>
>Really? How annoying. How long did that take to tweak? :(
>
>
>> As far as frame rates go, I'm probably not the best to comment on it.
>> I still play lots of ancient console games. Those are way harder than
>> new games, and framerates vary wildy and you're lucky to get 20fps.
>
>Ancient console games like from the (19)80s? If so, then doesn't your
>screen size, graphics, etc. look different from a true CRT?
>
>
>> Basically I'm not a diva, I just overcome the situation. Its just a
>> computer game, not splitting atoms. lol
>
>Well, I am picky and want the best I can get. ;)
>
>
>> Good luck in your hunt!
>
>Thanks. :)

Took about half an hour or so to tweak. Adjusted brightness and
contrast by eye first, then a color chart and finally the gamma and
color tweaks built into Windows 7.

I don't play old games on the PC monitor, just commenting on the
framerate sensitivity that has (in my opinion) been over-emphasized in
the thread. I may have underestimated how picky you were based on the
older video cards.

[Rin Stowleigh]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 08:03:56 -0800, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>On 12/28/2014 6:12 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
>
>>> What do you think of these two/2 ASUS VS Series VS2..H-P monitors?
>>>
>>> 24" ASUS VS Series VS247H-P Black (bigger, speakers, & TV tuner) =
>>> $164.99 after $20 rebate -- http://frys.com/product/6902147 (2 ms)
>>>
>>> 23" ASUS VS Series VS238H-P (brighter) = $159.99 after $20 rebate --
>>> http://frys.com/product/6999317 (2 ms)
>>>
>>> I might go to Fry's Electronics tomorrow night to see them in person and
>>> maybe buy one/1. Thank you in advance. :)
>>
>> Not sure if the question is for me specifically, or the group in
>> general, but the only monitor I could recommend for gaming that does
>
>It was for everyone including yourself. :)
>
>
>> not come equipped with G-Sync out of the box would be the ASUS VG248QE
>> 2" (that's the one where you can install the G-Sync hardware later if
>> you don't mind voiding the warranty). That model would be in your
>> price range, even though it's about $100 more than the ones you listed
>> above.
>
>Heh, that would be three/3 years IIRC. I doubt I would get a G-Sync
>hardware before the warranty ends. I don't need G-Sync now for sure. I
>am even surprised the warranty is not a year long.

I didn't want to void the warranty on a brand new monitor either,
which is one reason I waited until monitors with factory installed
G-sync arrived.

The only reason I mentioned this option is that it seemed you made up
your mind you're not going to incur the extra cost for G-Sync for now.
If you aren't going for G-Sync, the VG248QE is a good monitor for
gaming and is within your original budget (without the G-sync kit).
And, since it is the only monitor I'm aware of that gives you a future
option for G-Sync, there would be the peace of mind and reduced chance
of buyer's remorse if you wanted G-Sync in the future.

Potential risk is that the DIY kit may not be available 3 years from
now or whenever you might decide you want it, because of course the
factory installed G-Sync monitors are now out so who knows how long
ASUS will keep the DIY option alive.

You can buy a VG248QE from some boutique PC builders the last time I
checked (months ago), where they install it for you, but since the kit
costs extra money I'm not sure that option makes much sense especially
since it would be shipped to you with warranty voided.

>> The monitors you listed are not designed with gaming in mind. If I
>
>Even with the low 2ms response times? :(

Most of the monitors I've recommended are spec'd @ 1ms GTG.

Response time is only one spec to look at. One of the whole purposes
of low response times was to reduce blur, and if you've done any
research on the links I sent earlier, you've probably come to realize
that a lot of progress has been made beyond just response times in
reducing blur/ghosting, etc.

>> want to drive nails into wood I wouldn't try to do it with a pair of
>> pliers, I'd look for the right tool for the job. Just depends on what
>> you want to do with the monitor. I'm assuming based on the amount of
>> time you've dedicated to this post that the emphasis is on action
>> gaming.
>
>It's more than gaming (rare though due to work, BUSY life, etc.). I do a
>lot of Internet, watching videos, basic graphic work, etc.

One way of looking at is that gaming LCDs make fine work and video
viewing monitors, but the converse is not true.

>
>> You can see which monitors are designed for which purpose at each
>> vendors' website, for example all of Asus's current (not discontinued
>> models are here):
>>
>> http://www.asus.com/us/Monitors
>>
>> The ASUS VG248QE is your best bet in a decent-priced 24" that has the
>> potential to be a G-Sync monitor with the DIY kit.
>
>http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/diy shows how to do
>it. Hmm, so it is basically like a video card for the monitor instead of
>the computer?

Think of it like a refresh rate controller for the monitor that
receives signals from the video card on your PC telling it the optimal
refresh rate to use.

[Tim O]

On 28 Dec 2014 16:02:45 GMT, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

>On 2014-12-28, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>> On 12/28/2014 5:10 AM, Tim O wrote:
>>
>>> I have a 28" Asus and I'm happy with it. The Asus replaced a 23"
>>> Samsung and its *bright*. The whites were almost glaring out of the
>>> box and colors were a bit wacky... Blue's were almost purple.
>>>
>>> Basically what I'm saying is that it took more fiddling than normal to
>>> get the colors right, but once you get the contrast and color tweaked
>>> the image is very nice.
>>
>> Really? How annoying. How long did that take to tweak? :(
>
>This is typical for el-cheap-o monitors. If your top goal is spending
>the least amount, you're going to get shit. ; )

Its a Asus PB287Q... Tell me where you got it cheap and I'll go buy
another one! lol

[Jolly Roger]

If I purchased a monitor for $500+ and it needed significant tweaking
just to display somewhat accurate colors (blues are purple?), I'd return
it.

[Tim O]

On 28 Dec 2014 16:02:45 GMT, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

>On 2014-12-28, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>> On 12/28/2014 5:10 AM, Tim O wrote:
>>
>>> I have a 28" Asus and I'm happy with it. The Asus replaced a 23"
>>> Samsung and its *bright*. The whites were almost glaring out of the
>>> box and colors were a bit wacky... Blue's were almost purple.
>>>
>>> Basically what I'm saying is that it took more fiddling than normal to
>>> get the colors right, but once you get the contrast and color tweaked
>>> the image is very nice.
>>
>> Really? How annoying. How long did that take to tweak? :(
>
>This is typical for el-cheap-o monitors. If your top goal is spending
>the least amount, you're going to get shit. ; )

Not sure if my other reply sent... Not a cheap monitor (Asus PB287Q)
but the brightness and color correction seems to be true of Asus in
general.

I'd rather have a monitor thats too bright and needs to be tweaked
instead of one thats not bright enough.

Tim

[Jolly Roger]

On 2014-12-28, Tim O <timo56...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Brightness is one thing. Color accuracy is a whole other thing. I expect
a brand-new monitor to be color accurate (blue should not be purple).

[Ant]

Ah interesting. For now, I am not going to bother with G-Sync stuff. If
I really wanted that, then I will just buy a new monitor if mine doesn't
have. By then, it will probably be popular, better, and cheaper.

>>> The monitors you listed are not designed with gaming in mind. If I
>>
>> Even with the low 2ms response times? :(
>
> Most of the monitors I've recommended are spec'd @ 1ms GTG.
>
> Response time is only one spec to look at. One of the whole purposes
> of low response times was to reduce blur, and if you've done any
> research on the links I sent earlier, you've probably come to realize
> that a lot of progress has been made beyond just response times in
> reducing blur/ghosting, etc.

Ah OK. What else to look for? No IPS, 16.7 million (8-bit) colors, etc.?

>>> want to drive nails into wood I wouldn't try to do it with a pair of
>>> pliers, I'd look for the right tool for the job. Just depends on what
>>> you want to do with the monitor. I'm assuming based on the amount of
>>> time you've dedicated to this post that the emphasis is on action
>>> gaming.
>>
>> It's more than gaming (rare though due to work, BUSY life, etc.). I do a
>> lot of Internet, watching videos, basic graphic work, etc.
>
> One way of looking at is that gaming LCDs make fine work and video
> viewing monitors, but the converse is not true.

Ah cool.

>>> You can see which monitors are designed for which purpose at each
>>> vendors' website, for example all of Asus's current (not discontinued
>>> models are here):
>>>
>>> http://www.asus.com/us/Monitors
>>>
>>> The ASUS VG248QE is your best bet in a decent-priced 24" that has the
>>> potential to be a G-Sync monitor with the DIY kit.
>>
>> http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/diy shows how to do
>> it. Hmm, so it is basically like a video card for the monitor instead of
>> the computer?
>
> Think of it like a refresh rate controller for the monitor that
> receives signals from the video card on your PC telling it the optimal
> refresh rate to use.

Thanks. It is interesting that people can mod(ify) their monitors these
days. Haha. Lots have changed since I last looked for a new monitor. :O
--
"At length, when they came to a (lowly) valley of ants, one of the ants
said: 'O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts
crush you (under foot) without knowing it.'" --Surah 27. The Ant, The
Ants, line 18

[Rin Stowleigh]

The technology itself will probably remain fairly constant, but we can
probably expect to see the monitors themselves get better. I don't
know about cheaper, because typically with every new wave of
technology improvements, the cost of those improvements tends to get
rolled into the price. In the future, LCDs may get replaced by more
expensive OLED monitors, to the point where LCDs are no longer even
purchasable.

Think about it, this is what happened with CRTs. A lot of folks who
wanted to upgrade their CRTs right around the time LCDs were emerging
thought it would be better to save their money, give LCD technology a
couple of years to improve, and save a buck. Never happened. What
did happen is they found themselves unable to purchase a CRT at all,
and it took about 12 years before LCD and add-on technology caught up
to a reasonably comparable performance level. I know of several
previously very active action gamers who just said fuck it and gave up
on PC gaming as a hobby entirely because of the sad shape of LCD
monitors for so many years sucked the life out of gaming. Now some of
the guys I used to game with don't game at all (and I bet if they
tried G-Sync today they would have a renewed interest).

I'd like to say G-Sync monitors will get cheaper in the near future,
but demand is currently through the roof for these things (perhaps
pent up demand from folks who have been waiting for a suitable CRT
replacement). The model I bought went up $180 after I bought it and
has stayed there at NewEgg. It's still available for $600 at stores
that still have it in stock, but sometimes the manufacturer just
changes the model number and some minor cosmetic stuff, slaps a higher
price tag on it, and sits back and enjoys the increased profits.

The one exception to this might be if the VESA standard for adaptive
sync actually ever materializes in a meaningful way and becomes a
standard feature of all monitors. I could see that putting some
downward pressure on prices but I'm not sure I would count on it.

>>>> The monitors you listed are not designed with gaming in mind. If I
>>>
>>> Even with the low 2ms response times? :(
>>
>> Most of the monitors I've recommended are spec'd @ 1ms GTG.
>>
>> Response time is only one spec to look at. One of the whole purposes
>> of low response times was to reduce blur, and if you've done any
>> research on the links I sent earlier, you've probably come to realize
>> that a lot of progress has been made beyond just response times in
>> reducing blur/ghosting, etc.
>
>Ah OK. What else to look for? No IPS, 16.7 million (8-bit) colors, etc.?

144hz refresh rate or at least 120hz. 60hz sucks.

Be sure to get 16:9 aspect ratio (in certain games I see some folks
complaining about poor 16:10 support or bugs that occur-- it shouldn't
be that way, but one of the great things about 1080p is that it is
currently "the standard", which means you typically don't run into the
aspect ratio bugs that sometimes plague modern games (I used to see
aspect bugs occasionally when I ran 4:3 but decided the tradeoff was
worth it for the benefits of a CRT at the time).

[Ant]

On 12/28/2014 12:08 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

> The technology itself will probably remain fairly constant, but we can
> probably expect to see the monitors themselves get better. I don't
> know about cheaper, because typically with every new wave of
> technology improvements, the cost of those improvements tends to get
> rolled into the price. In the future, LCDs may get replaced by more
> expensive OLED monitors, to the point where LCDs are no longer even
> purchasable.
>
> Think about it, this is what happened with CRTs. A lot of folks who
> wanted to upgrade their CRTs right around the time LCDs were emerging
> thought it would be better to save their money, give LCD technology a
> couple of years to improve, and save a buck. Never happened. What
> did happen is they found themselves unable to purchase a CRT at all,
> and it took about 12 years before LCD and add-on technology caught up
> to a reasonably comparable performance level. I know of several
> previously very active action gamers who just said fuck it and gave up
> on PC gaming as a hobby entirely because of the sad shape of LCD
> monitors for so many years sucked the life out of gaming. Now some of
> the guys I used to game with don't game at all (and I bet if they
> tried G-Sync today they would have a renewed interest).

That is what I went through. My CRT died, I had to get a new monitor but
couldn't find a good CRT. So, I got a cheap 19" 5:4 1280x1024 Samsung
931 BF monitor from Best Buy. It wasn't great since I needed a monitor
badly. Even though I still like gaming, I just don't have time. Look at
my ancient setups due to BUSY life like work/job, family, etc. Very
rarely, I play games. I'm old and outdated! Haha!

> I'd like to say G-Sync monitors will get cheaper in the near future,
> but demand is currently through the roof for these things (perhaps
> pent up demand from folks who have been waiting for a suitable CRT
> replacement). The model I bought went up $180 after I bought it and
> has stayed there at NewEgg. It's still available for $600 at stores
> that still have it in stock, but sometimes the manufacturer just
> changes the model number and some minor cosmetic stuff, slaps a higher
> price tag on it, and sits back and enjoys the increased profits.

Wow, it is that popular? I didn't know that. $600 is way too much for me.

> The one exception to this might be if the VESA standard for adaptive
> sync actually ever materializes in a meaningful way and becomes a
> standard feature of all monitors. I could see that putting some
> downward pressure on prices but I'm not sure I would count on it.

Another reason to wait. ;)

>> Ah OK. What else to look for? No IPS, 16.7 million (8-bit) colors, etc.?
>
> 144hz refresh rate or at least 120hz. 60hz sucks.

Won't this be a problem with my old OmniCube KVM from Y2K with VGA
connections? Yes, I still use them to share multiple computers (Windows
and Linux).

> Be sure to get 16:9 aspect ratio (in certain games I see some folks
> complaining about poor 16:10 support or bugs that occur-- it shouldn't
> be that way, but one of the great things about 1080p is that it is
> currently "the standard", which means you typically don't run into the
> aspect ratio bugs that sometimes plague modern games (I used to see
> aspect bugs occasionally when I ran 4:3 but decided the tradeoff was
> worth it for the benefits of a CRT at the time).

OK and thanks. Another to note. :)

BTW, my old monitor wasn't wanting to power on this afternoon after
being off for about three/3 hours in the cold. Heh.
--
"Everyone knows an ant can't move a rubber tree plant." --Motto of FTL
Foundation (in Isaac Asimov book)

[Rin Stowleigh]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 14:39:42 -0800, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>
>>> Ah OK. What else to look for? No IPS, 16.7 million (8-bit) colors, etc.?
>>
>> 144hz refresh rate or at least 120hz. 60hz sucks.
>
>Won't this be a problem with my old OmniCube KVM from Y2K with VGA
>connections? Yes, I still use them to share multiple computers (Windows
>and Linux).

To be honest I'm not sure how things will go with such an old KVM,
even with adapters, you would be pioneering that space. The oldest
KVM I have is roughly 5 years old with all DVI connections. There's a
certain point at which trying to make old hardware work with new is
just not worth the effort.

[Ant]

On 12/28/2014 3:34 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

>>>> Ah OK. What else to look for? No IPS, 16.7 million (8-bit) colors, etc.?
>>>
>>> 144hz refresh rate or at least 120hz. 60hz sucks.
>>
>> Won't this be a problem with my old OmniCube KVM from Y2K with VGA
>> connections? Yes, I still use them to share multiple computers (Windows

>> and Linux). I usually use 75 hz.

>
> To be honest I'm not sure how things will go with such an old KVM,
> even with adapters, you would be pioneering that space. The oldest
> KVM I have is roughly 5 years old with all DVI connections. There's a
> certain point at which trying to make old hardware work with new is
> just not worth the effort.

I remember KVMs with DVIs being so expensive several years ago. Are they
much cheaper now? What about HDMI + USB?
--
"What reason, like the careful ant, draws laboriously together, the wind
of accident sometimes collects in a moment." --Friedrich von Schiller

/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
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A song (i/wa)s playing on this computer: Dave Matthews - Ants Marching

[Rin Stowleigh]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 16:43:55 -0800, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>On 12/28/2014 3:34 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
>
>>>>> Ah OK. What else to look for? No IPS, 16.7 million (8-bit) colors, etc.?
>>>>
>>>> 144hz refresh rate or at least 120hz. 60hz sucks.
>>>
>>> Won't this be a problem with my old OmniCube KVM from Y2K with VGA
>>> connections? Yes, I still use them to share multiple computers (Windows
>>> and Linux). I usually use 75 hz.
>>
>> To be honest I'm not sure how things will go with such an old KVM,
>> even with adapters, you would be pioneering that space. The oldest
>> KVM I have is roughly 5 years old with all DVI connections. There's a
>> certain point at which trying to make old hardware work with new is
>> just not worth the effort.
>
>I remember KVMs with DVIs being so expensive several years ago. Are they
>much cheaper now? What about HDMI + USB?

You could price KVMs by shopping around online. Try Newegg.

[Ant]

>> Right now you don't want to buy anything other than a G-SYNC monitor
>> for action gaming unless you want hard regrets a year from now, or
>> just want something cheap to get by until you have more time to
>> research it.
>
> Well, I don't want to spend a lot of money. $200-300 is OK, but nothing
> more!

Heh. I found out Fry's Electronics stores have a sale for one of these
G-Synch monitors: http://www.frys.com/product/8352677 ...
http://www.benq.us/images/upload/lcd/xl2420g/xl2420g_1.jpg even shows
the parts inside the monitor. But yeah, over $600 is too much for very
little gaming I do! I might check it out in store just for kicks and
dream about it in for my distance future. :P
--
"All good work is done the way ants do things: Little by little."
--Lafcadio Hearn

/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
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A song (i/wa)s playing on this computer: Enrique Iglesias - Rythm Divine

[Rin Stowleigh]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 17:01:29 -0800, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>>> Right now you don't want to buy anything other than a G-SYNC monitor
>>> for action gaming unless you want hard regrets a year from now, or
>>> just want something cheap to get by until you have more time to
>>> research it.
>>
>> Well, I don't want to spend a lot of money. $200-300 is OK, but nothing
>> more!
>
>Heh. I found out Fry's Electronics stores have a sale for one of these
>G-Synch monitors: http://www.frys.com/product/8352677 ...
>http://www.benq.us/images/upload/lcd/xl2420g/xl2420g_1.jpg even shows
>the parts inside the monitor. But yeah, over $600 is too much for very
>little gaming I do! I might check it out in store just for kicks and
>dream about it in for my distance future. :P

NewEgg says with promo code "BESTBENQ24" there is an addtional
discount off the $600 price, but I didn't jump through the motions to
see how much the discount would be. I'm guessing $50, would be
surprised if it is $100 off. I think I'd still rather have the Acer
27" at $600 than the 24" for a little less.

[Ant]

On 12/28/2014 4:46 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

>> I remember KVMs with DVIs being so expensive several years ago. Are they
>> much cheaper now? What about HDMI + USB?
>
> You could price KVMs by shopping around online. Try Newegg.

Still expensive from quick searches on Google's shopping. :(
--
"The great companies did not know that the line between hunger and anger
is a thin line. And money that might have gone to wages went for gas,
for guns, for agents and spies, for blacklists, for drilling. On the
highways the people moved like ants and searched for work, for food. And
the anger began to ferment." --John Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath

/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
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A song (i/wa)s playing on this computer: Vanessa Hudgens - Come Back To Me

[Ant]

On 12/28/2014 5:11 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

> NewEgg says with promo code "BESTBENQ24" there is an addtional
> discount off the $600 price, but I didn't jump through the motions to
> see how much the discount would be. I'm guessing $50, would be
> surprised if it is $100 off. I think I'd still rather have the Acer
> 27" at $600 than the 24" for a little less.

27" won't fit on my tiny desk with shelves. Heh!
--
"Ants die in sugar." --Malawi

/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
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( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.

[Werner Punz]

Am 28.12.14 21:08, schrieb Rin Stowleigh:

> The one exception to this might be if the VESA standard for adaptive
> sync actually ever materializes in a meaningful way and becomes a
> standard feature of all monitors. I could see that putting some
> downward pressure on prices but I'm not sure I would count on it.
>

The standard should come out next year, hopefully then new monitors with
adaptive sync with more than one input will materialize then. To late
for me, however I just bought a new monitor which fits to my needs, but
it is not gsync due the the only one input problem.

But even if adaptive sync VESA will come out it is questionable if
NVidia ever will support it, but support from Intel and ATI should be
enough to give this thing a foothold in the market.


Werner

[Werner Punz]

Am 29.12.14 03:55, schrieb Ant:

> On 12/28/2014 4:46 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
>
>>> I remember KVMs with DVIs being so expensive several years ago. Are they
>>> much cheaper now? What about HDMI + USB?
>>
>> You could price KVMs by shopping around online. Try Newegg.
>
> Still expensive from quick searches on Google's shopping. :(

Well since DVI is on its way out being replaced by Displayport, they
probably won´t become cheaper.


Werner

[Werner Punz]

Am 30.12.14 08:27, schrieb Werner Punz:

Actually I read up on it, VESA Adaptive Sync is part of the Displayport
1.2a standard, just optional, ATI already supports it in their cards,
however monitors which do support it will come out soon, there are none
yet while there is a handful of g-sync monitors available (3-4 models).
NVidia is not going to support VESA adaptive sync they want to stay on
the g-sync route for now.

Werner

[Tim O]

It'd feel like Adaptive Sync should easily be the next standard... AMD
already supports it and both Sony & MS had gone with AMD on the
consoles, but HDMI feels like it has already been embraced over
Displayport.

Some of the new midrange PC monitors only have HDMI (and a DVI to HDMI
cable) and no Displayport. I think until both 4k monitors and TV's are
mainstream, we're going to be in limbo on this.

[Werner Punz]

Am 30.12.14 13:53, schrieb Tim O:

>
> It'd feel like Adaptive Sync should easily be the next standard... AMD
> already supports it and both Sony & MS had gone with AMD on the
> consoles, but HDMI feels like it has already been embraced over
> Displayport.
>
> Some of the new midrange PC monitors only have HDMI (and a DVI to HDMI
> cable) and no Displayport. I think until both 4k monitors and TV's are
> mainstream, we're going to be in limbo on this.
>

Displayport has currently the upper hand in 4k monitors since almost no
one currently supports hdmi 2.0 which is supposed to bring 4k support to
the masses. HDMI 2.0 can almost not be found anywhere while displayport
2.0 is almost universally available.


Werner

[Ant]

On 12/29/2014 11:30 PM, Werner Punz wrote:

>>>> I remember KVMs with DVIs being so expensive several years ago. Are
>>>> they
>>>> much cheaper now? What about HDMI + USB?
>>>
>>> You could price KVMs by shopping around online. Try Newegg.
>>
>> Still expensive from quick searches on Google's shopping. :(
> Well since DVI is on its way out being replaced by Displayport, they
> probably won´t become cheaper.

Non-Apple devices use DisplayPorts too? I thought it was only with Apple
products?
--
"While an ant was wandering under the shade of the tree of Phæton, a
drop of amber enveloped the tiny insect; thus she, who in life was
disregarded, became precious by death." --Martial, Epigrams (c. 80-104
AD), Book VI, Epistle 15.

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[Rin Stowleigh]

On Tue, 30 Dec 2014 06:44:59 -0800, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>On 12/29/2014 11:30 PM, Werner Punz wrote:
>
>>>>> I remember KVMs with DVIs being so expensive several years ago. Are
>>>>> they
>>>>> much cheaper now? What about HDMI + USB?
>>>>
>>>> You could price KVMs by shopping around online. Try Newegg.
>>>
>>> Still expensive from quick searches on Google's shopping. :(
>> Well since DVI is on its way out being replaced by Displayport, they
>> probably won´t become cheaper.
>
>Non-Apple devices use DisplayPorts too? I thought it was only with Apple
>products?

I think the largest Apple branded monitor is Thunderbolt.

DisplayPort is becoming the standard. Look at newer video cards to
see where things are going -- more DisplayPorts, DVI just there for
backward compatibility.

[Rin Stowleigh]

On Tue, 30 Dec 2014 08:36:14 +0100, Werner Punz <we...@gmx.at> wrote:

The potential problem I see, or perhaps I should say the key
difference is that the standard will require the monitor makers and
the video card vendors to deal with and test compatibility with each
other, meaning a gazillion different possible permutations of cards,
monitors, driver versions, and operating systems all coming from
different sources. Meanwhile for G-Sync, NVidia provides all the
hardware (not the monitor itself but the module which interoperates
with the video card) and the drivers.

AMD/ATI has had all this time and they still haven't been able to
master the art of making their drivers compatibility with games, do we
really want to gamble on them being able to get this right?

Historically Nvidia is much better at pulling this off, and G-Sync is
here now. I think Nvidia is probably making a smart financial move by
not getting caught up in the costly testing and support conundrum
that's going to follow the fumbles we witness as AMD struggles with
all these monitor makers.

And, will these monitor makers be excited about spending lots of money
going after the lesser of the two marketshares? Nvidia makes up the
lionshare of PC gamers these days. AMD has the console market, but I
think most console players would rather play on their TV and are not
really smart or technically savvy enough to understand why they would
need such a technology in the first place, much less buy a new TV for
it.

[Ant]

On 12/30/2014 6:53 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

>>> Well since DVI is on its way out being replaced by Displayport, they
>>> probably won´t become cheaper.
>>
>> Non-Apple devices use DisplayPorts too? I thought it was only with Apple
>> products?
>
> I think the largest Apple branded monitor is Thunderbolt.
>
> DisplayPort is becoming the standard. Look at newer video cards to
> see where things are going -- more DisplayPorts, DVI just there for
> backward compatibility.

Interesting. I have been out of the video hardwares for years since I
use my old stuff. :) I thought the latest stuff would be HDMI!
--
"For while the giants have just been talking about an information
superhighway, the ants have actually been building one: the Internet."
From "The Accidental Superhighway." The Economist: A Survey of the
Internet, 1-7 July 1995, insert.

[Ant]

I finally bought the new monitor last night from
http://frys.com/product/6902147 ... ;) It's nice. I haven't used it
much. Although I noticed some of my 3D fish aquarium screen savers and
OTA TV 720p recordings look meh in fullscreen (blurry and
pixellations!). I am spoiled. :P

Thanks all. :)
--
Quote of the Week: "I don't know how good ants are at swimmin', but I'd
be willing to bet that a good fire'd get their attention." --MacGyver in
Trumbo's World episode
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[Anssi Saari]

Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> writes:

> Non-Apple devices use DisplayPorts too? I thought it was only with
> Apple products?

Hardly but curiously Dell at least went to HDMI and VGA only in their
recent Latitude E6000 business laptops. On the other hand Lenovo went
with mini-DP in the Thinkpads. About 4-5 years both Thinkpads and
Latitudes had displayport in the back. So clearly there's no single
winner yet.

[Werner Punz]

Am 01.01.15 09:57, schrieb Anssi Saari:

Well HDMI has one problem Displayport has not, you currently can only
drive 4k displays with HDMI 2.0 and there is almost no monitor which
understands HDMI 2.0 (only Samsungs as far as I know) and definitely no
PC yet. Displayport 1.2 is here and even my old GeForce 660 supports it.
Hence adding a displayport to a 4k Monitor is a no brainer. What I do
not understand is the TV vendors, only Panasonic has a TV which has
displayport enabled, while many of the UHD TV Manufacturers dont even
support HDMI 2.0 fully yet.

So giving a business notebook a HDMI 1.x only connectors is a bad idea,
because you can drive 4k displays only up to 30Hz, giving it a VGA port
- oh well, this connector never seems to die, due to its omnipresence in
lots of old conference beamers. I would rather see it die today than
tomorrow, but we probably will see it even when HDMI 1.x and Displayport
1.x have gone the way of the Dodo. The funny thing is, a dedicated VGA
port is not even necessary, Apple for instance has Displayport to VGA
connectors if you really need such a thing.

Either way we will see a side by side of both connectors for the next
few years with HDMI probably will getting the upper hand slowly in the
long run due to its strong base in consumer electronics, and then
probably a repetition of the same situation as we have now a few years
later when TVs and monitors will move to 8k with Displayport being there
earlier than HDMI, aka Displayport will support 8k already when the
consumer electronic vendors will struggle to get their act together
regarding HDMI 8k support on the back of their own paying customers.


Werner

[Tim O]

This may be one of those cases where the better option doesn't
necessarily win. HDMI was developed by a coalition of equipment
manufacturers that also happen to be selling the equipment. Its going
to get pushed.

HDMI 2.0 will likely just phase in as 4K content becomes available.
Its just not really there yet. I've just been reading up on
Displayport based on your comments and noticed it doesn't have one of
the nice features already included in HDMI, the ability to control
other connected equipment. I'm already using this feature on my
current setup.

I have a 70" Sharp Aquos TV (not 4k) and a Yamaha receiver in the
living room. Turning the TV on/off also powers the receiver and the TV
remote can control the receiver volume. No dicking around with
programming codes for various types of equipment, the 2 way interface
is built right into the HDMI spec.

Its a little thing I guess, but the reason I'm bringing it up is that
I don't think it matters what Dell or Lenovo are doing because
computers aren't going to be the thing driving the adoption of
Displayport or HDMI, it'll be the 4K TV/DVD market.

What was the last Standard Battle? HDDVD vs. BluRay? Its best to just
wait it out, I think. A year or so will probably tell the tale!

[Werner Punz]

Am 01.01.15 21:51, schrieb Tim O:

> Its a little thing I guess, but the reason I'm bringing it up is that
> I don't think it matters what Dell or Lenovo are doing because
> computers aren't going to be the thing driving the adoption of
> Displayport or HDMI, it'll be the 4K TV/DVD market.
>
> What was the last Standard Battle? HDDVD vs. BluRay? Its best to just
> wait it out, I think. A year or so will probably tell the tale!
>

Well HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 will win out in the long run, just as HDMI 1 did,
there is no doubt about it. Displayport however will stay just as DVI
did, because they simply are faster in adopting higher refresh rates,
adaptive sync etc..., but it will not really make it into consumer
electronics

[Werner Punz]

Am 01.01.15 21:51, schrieb Tim O:

> HDMI 2.0 will likely just phase in as 4K content becomes available.
> Its just not really there yet.

Definitely this will happen sometime 2015, I am waiting for the CES for
the big announcments in this area, the big scam by the tv manufacturers
currently is and was throughout the year 2014 that they sold TVs with
sometimes only one HDMI 2.0 port sometimes even without it, and even
then it was questionable whether it supported HDCP 2.2 which is supposed
to become the copy protection standard for 4k BluRay.

Add to that that the hifi receiver front was even worse with only one
manufacturer having a hdmi 2.0/hdcp 2.2 receiver ready (with exactly one
UHD Port which supported HDCP 2.2) and almost all of them were promoting
UHD on their devices so that early adopters would by it.

So to sum this up the tv/receiver manufacturers simply had not their act
together and tried to hide it as good as it was possible.


Werner