Texture compression
Le Ming
Can anyone explain what the "texture compression" option does in some
games?- and the incidence on peformances?
Fred
"Le Ming" <phil...@bouncelibertysurf.fr> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:1firnrh.1uerwuh13xch8gN%phil...@bouncelibertysurf.fr...
> Hi all!
> Can anyone explain what the "texture compression" option does in some
> games?- and the incidence on peformances?
The texture comprimed the texture space loaded in the video memory, as
Stuffit or ZIP do with files, without loosing in quality, that permit to
increase the frame rate, i think of 10 - 15%, it depends how the code is
optimized
At the moment this technology has to be implemented in the ATI Driver for
Mac OS X, as i read in the Forum of Infogrames about the developing status
of the forthcoming Unreal Tournament 2003, and is not clear if is
implemented in the nVidia Driver
For more information write to the technical support of Apple, ATI, and
nVidia, at the Mac section of OpenGL.org, or in the Forums of Inside Mac
Games and Mac Gamer
As i read in rumors, i think that will be implemented and supported in the
games for the end of 2002 like UT 2003, and in the next Doom 3 and Halo
annunced for the first quarter of 2003
---
Bye, Fred
Le Ming
> As i read in rumors, i think that will be implemented and supported in the
> games for the end of 2002 like UT 2003, and in the next Doom 3 and Halo
> annunced for the first quarter of 2003
I don'y get it. The option is i.e. available in RTCW if I'm right. So is
the support of that technology implemented into the graphic card's
driver or in the games themselves?
Avelino Santa Ana Jr.
phil...@bouncelibertysurf.fr (Le Ming) wrote:
There are different types of texture compression. The texture
compression used in RtCW is compatible with current Mac OpenGL drivers.
However, the texture compression used in UT2k3 is a different type of
texture compression.
A quote from Chris Bentley from an IMG news article:
<http://www.insidemacgames.com/news/story.php?ArticleID=6216>
"All the Radeon cards up to and including the Radeon 8500, and 9000
support GL_ARB_texture_compression, and that support has been there
since early in 10.1.x. MacOS X 10.1.x and 10.2 do not support
GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc. As a result this form of compression is
not yet supported on any cards in MacOS X. We are adding this support
for an upcoming release, so games that depend on this extension will run
fine with that release. I believe the situation is the same for all
cards on Mac OS X."
Glenda Adams
phil...@bouncelibertysurf.fr (Le Ming) wrote:
> I don'y get it. The option is i.e. available in RTCW if I'm right. So is
> the support of that technology implemented into the graphic card's
> driver or in the games themselves?
Texture compression comes in two flavors, on the fly compression and
pre-compressed. The end result is the same- you have a texture that
takes up 1/4th to 1/8th the space on your video card.
OpenGL on the Mac has supported on the fly compression for a while, and
games like RTCW take advantage of that. They have uncompressed textures
stored on disk, and when they load & hand them off to OpenGL, they can
tell GL to compress the textures before they are put on the video card.
The method that UT2003 and many other games like EverQuest use that
hasn't been in GL on the Mac is pre-compressed textures. In this mode,
all of the textures are stored in a standard compressed format on disk
(kind of like a jpg). They are loaded and sent straight to the video
card through GL without having to be uncompressed or recompressed. This
helps with load times, and doesn't use as much system memory as loading
raw textures and then compressing them on the fly.
Texture compression is a great advantage to games that have LOTS of
textures. For instance, many zones in Everquest upload 160MB or more of
textures to OpenGL. If you compress those with texture compression, you
can fit the same amount of textures in 20MB. Obviously with a 32MB
video card, your performance will be a lot better with 20-40MB of
textures instead of 160MB :)
Glenda
--
Glenda Adams
President, Westlake Interactive (http://www.westlakeinteractive.com)
Jon Buckley
cards because the drivers don¹t support pre-compressed compression, right?
Glenda Adams at gad...@jump.net wrote on 9/26/02 3:01 PM:
--
Remove SPAMSUCKS to reply to me
ZepHead
Glenda Adams <gad...@jump.net> wrote:
>
> Texture compression is a great advantage to games that have LOTS of
> textures. For instance, many zones in Everquest upload 160MB or more of
> textures to OpenGL. If you compress those with texture compression, you
> can fit the same amount of textures in 20MB. Obviously with a 32MB
> video card, your performance will be a lot better with 20-40MB of
> textures instead of 160MB :)
>
> Glenda
Glenda thanks for popping in and explaining this stuff. It is great
to have someone with so much knowledge helping us out : )
again thx
ZepHead
Jon Buckley <book...@SPAMSUCKSsympatico.ca> wrote:
> Okay, and Mark Rein said that UT2k3 couldn't be run on Macs using ATI video
> cards because the drivers donšt support pre-compressed compression, right?
>
IIRC Chris said on the opengl list he was adding that now.
It should be in a driver update before UT2k3 is released.
My guess is that the UT2k3 coder is(will be) the main beta tester
for it also : )
Sometimes it takes a HUGE TITLE like UT2k3 to get apple and ati etc...
to implement stuff.
If doom 3 needs something then Apple will add it now. If doom 3 doesn't
then Apple may takes years to get around to adding it, if ever.
OpenGL extensions are a good example.
Fred
news:REMOVEMEgroovyt-9E...@news.comcast.giganews.com...
> In article <B9B8DD48.290%book...@SPAMSUCKSsympatico.ca>,
> Jon Buckley <book...@SPAMSUCKSsympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > Okay, and Mark Rein said that UT2k3 couldn't be run on Macs using ATI
video
right?
> >
>
> IIRC Chris said on the opengl list he was adding that now.
> It should be in a driver update before UT2k3 is released.
>
> My guess is that the UT2k3 coder is(will be) the main beta tester
> for it also : )
>
>
> Sometimes it takes a HUGE TITLE like UT2k3 to get apple and ati etc...
> to implement stuff.
>
> If doom 3 needs something then Apple will add it now. If doom 3 doesn't
> then Apple may takes years to get around to adding it, if ever.
>
> OpenGL extensions are a good example.
I agree with you Zep Head
Glenda, can you explain why seem that Mark Rein and you don't said the same
thing ?
It's strange that the nost important developer of Mac games sat that
And i think that the Texture Compression technology that you have utilized
in Return to Castle Wolfstein only works with ATI Radeon video cards, i'm
right ?
I'm sure that a more cooperative team work between you and Apple, ATI,
nVidia can do better results
I will be glad if you support the Sound Blaster Live Driver and API in
developing by a Team Open Source in collaboration with Brian Souder
---
Bye Davide, from Italy (LOCALIZE YOUR GAME FOR OUR LANGUAGE)
Fred
"Fred" <nos...@free.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:an19pl$e3t$2...@lacerta.tiscalinet.it...
> "ZepHead" <REMOVEM...@erols.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:REMOVEMEgroovyt-9E...@news.comcast.giganews.com...
> > In article <B9B8DD48.290%book...@SPAMSUCKSsympatico.ca>,
> > Jon Buckley <book...@SPAMSUCKSsympatico.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > Okay, and Mark Rein said that UT2k3 couldn't be run on Macs using ATI
> video
> right?
> > >
> >
> > IIRC Chris said on the opengl list he was adding that now.
> > It should be in a driver update before UT2k3 is released.
> >
> > My guess is that the UT2k3 coder is(will be) the main beta tester
> > for it also : )
> >
> >
> > Sometimes it takes a HUGE TITLE like UT2k3 to get apple and ati etc...
> > to implement stuff.
> >
> > If doom 3 needs something then Apple will add it now. If doom 3
doesn't
> > then Apple may takes years to get around to adding it, if ever.
> >
> > OpenGL extensions are a good example.
>
> I agree with you Zep Head
>
> Glenda, can you explain why seem that Mark Rein and you don't said the
same
> thing ?
>
>
> And i think that the Texture Compression technology that you have utilized
> in Return to Castle Wolfstein only works with ATI Radeon video cards, i'm
> right ?
>
> I'm sure that a more cooperative team work between you and Apple, ATI,
> nVidia can do better results
>
> I will be glad if you support the Sound Blaster Live Driver and API in
> developing by a Team Open Source in collaboration with Brian Souder
>
> ---
> Bye Davide, from Italy (LOCALIZE YOUR GAME FOR OUR LANGUAGE)
>
>
>
>
Sorry, i have write "sat" instead of say, and "nost" instead of most, this
buttons are near in my european QWERTY keyboard are near
Fred
>
> "Fred" <nos...@free.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:an19pl$e3t$2...@lacerta.tiscalinet.it...
> > "ZepHead" <REMOVEM...@erols.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
> > news:REMOVEMEgroovyt-9E...@news.comcast.giganews.com...
> > > In article <B9B8DD48.290%book...@SPAMSUCKSsympatico.ca>,
> > > Jon Buckley <book...@SPAMSUCKSsympatico.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Okay, and Mark Rein said that UT2k3 couldn't be run on Macs using
ATI
> > video
When the 1.4 Version of OpenGL will be released for Mac OS X ?
Why does anybody port the Linux Force Feedback Open Source API and Driver in
Mac OS X ?
Does exist a Mac OS X Version of the Gamepad iShock II Driver ?
Mac Gamers are still waiting for Half Life and The Need for Speed: Porsche
Unleashed, i think you can buy the rights at very low price and do a good
affair !
Bye
---
David
Peter Cohen
"Fred" <nos...@free.net> wrote:
> Mac Gamers are still waiting for Half Life and The Need for Speed: Porsche
> Unleashed, i think you can buy the rights at very low price and do a good
> affair !
For the love of God, give it a rest. These games are dead and buried.
Ex-games. Pushin' up the daisies. Pinin' for the fjords.
Acknowledge and move on.
--
Peter Cohen (pco...@maccentral.com)
Senior Editor, MacCentral
Corey Tamas
> > Unleashed
Only the ones stuck in a time warp from three years ago.
C
Avelino Santa Ana Jr.
Corey Tamas <co...@tamas.com> wrote:
"Let's do the Time Warp again!!"
Fred
> In article <an1fiq$h89$1...@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>,
> "Fred" <nos...@free.net> wrote:
>
> > Mac Gamers are still waiting for Half Life and The Need for Speed:
Porsche
> > Unleashed, i think you can buy the rights at very low price and do a
good
> > affair !
"Peter Cohen" <pco...@maccentral.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:pcohen-10BCB9....@netnews.attbi.com...
> For the love of God, give it a rest. These games are dead and buried.
> Ex-games. Pushin' up the daisies. Pinin' for the fjords.
> Acknowledge and move on.
> --
> Peter Cohen (pco...@maccentral.com)
> Senior Editor, MacCentral
RIGHT, in the Life we always have to acknowledge and move on, The Show Must
Go On
We are waiting for G5 and Half Life II
Do you think that the next line of Power Mac incorporate the Power PC 7500
processor of Motorola ?
Jon Buckley
>
>> In article <an1fiq$h89$1...@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>,
>> "Fred" <nos...@free.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Mac Gamers are still waiting for Half Life and The Need for Speed:
> Porsche
>>> Unleashed, i think you can buy the rights at very low price and do a
> good
>>> affair !
>
> "Peter Cohen" <pco...@maccentral.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:pcohen-10BCB9....@netnews.attbi.com...
>> For the love of God, give it a rest. These games are dead and buried.
>> Ex-games. Pushin' up the daisies. Pinin' for the fjords.
>> Acknowledge and move on.
>> --
>> Peter Cohen (pco...@maccentral.com)
>> Senior Editor, MacCentral
>
> RIGHT, in the Life we always have to acknowledge and move on, The Show Must
> Go On
>
> We are waiting for G5 and Half Life II
G5 yes, Half Life, no.
> Do you think that the next line of Power Mac incorporate the Power PC 7500
> processor of Motorola ?
...
The last last line of PowerMacs did.
Avelino Santa Ana Jr.
Jon Buckley <book...@SPAMSUCKSsympatico.ca> wrote:
I thought we're still in the 74xx PPC range of numbers?
Erick Bryce Wong
> Jon Buckley <book...@SPAMSUCKSsympatico.ca> wrote:
>> Fred at nos...@free.net wrote on 9/28/02 7:19 AM:
>> > processor of Motorola ?
>>
>
>I thought we're still in the 74xx PPC range of numbers?
You are right, the previous poster is mistaken:
http://www.hardmac.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2002-09-26#3510
The last photo is a closeup of the processor module on the new dual 1.25GHz.
The markings clearly indicate this is still a 7455-class processor, which is
no different from the previous line of G4's (except for the higher speeds).
-- Erick
Jon Buckley
Oops, my bad! I thought that the current processor was a 7550. D'oh :)
Glenda Adams
"Fred" <nos...@free.net> wrote:
> Glenda, can you explain why seem that Mark Rein and you don't said the same
> thing ?
(sorry for a late reply, I was out of town for a few days taking care of
some pesonal business)
I'm not sure exactly what Mark Rein said, but I thought he just said the
Mac OpenGL doesn't support pre-compressed textures yet. Which is what I
meant to say as well (maybe I wasn't clear).
We actually started working with Apple and nVidia/ATI many months ago to
get pre-compressed textures in GL for EverQuest, so the wheels have been
rolling.
As far as I know, the on-the-fly compression works on both ATI and
nVidia, but I don't have any real world tests to show it (I just think I
remember it working OK).
Fred
> "Fred" <nos...@free.net> wrote:
>
> > Glenda, can you explain why seem that Mark Rein and you don't said the
same
> > thing ?
"Glenda Adams" <gad...@jump.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:gadams-21C317....@reader.news.algx.net...
> (sorry for a late reply, I was out of town for a few days taking care of
> some pesonal business)
>
> I'm not sure exactly what Mark Rein said, but I thought he just said the
> Mac OpenGL doesn't support pre-compressed textures yet. Which is what I
> meant to say as well (maybe I wasn't clear).
>
> We actually started working with Apple and nVidia/ATI many months ago to
> get pre-compressed textures in GL for EverQuest, so the wheels have been
> rolling.
>
> As far as I know, the on-the-fly compression works on both ATI and
> nVidia, but I don't have any real world tests to show it (I just think I
> remember it working OK).
>
> Glenda
>
> --
> Glenda Adams
> President, Westlake Interactive (http://www.westlakeinteractive.com)
Thanks Glenda,
Do you think to port of Command & Conquer Generals on Mac OS X ?
When we'll see a Mac racing game from Westlake Interactive like The Need For
Speed series
---
D@vide aka Fred
Glenda Adams
"Fred" <nos...@free.net> wrote:
> Do you think to port of Command & Conquer Generals on Mac OS X ?
>
I have no idea if/when/ever.
> When we'll see a Mac racing game from Westlake Interactive like The Need For
> Speed series
We know there is a lot of demand for racing games, so I can say it's
high on our list!
Fred
> Corey Tamas <co...@tamas.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Mac Gamers are still waiting for Half Life and The Need for Speed:
Porsche
> > > > Unleashed
> >
> > Only the ones stuck in a time warp from three years ago.
> >
> > C
"Avelino Santa Ana Jr." <a2daj...@DEEPFRIEDSPAMmac.com> ha scritto nel
messaggio news:a2dajNOSPAM-4542...@netnews.attbi.com...
>
> "Let's do the Time Warp again!!"
I read your Post, it seem you are a mac games user geek, were do you live ?,
i live in north Italy
---
Bye Fred