Mac Half-Life 2 petition
Steve Linberg
petition for a Mac version of HL2.
http://www.petitiononline.com/hl2mac/
Will it affect the circumstances or chances of a port in the slightest?
Probably not. Might it make you feel good to go clicky-clicky just in
case? Perhaps. :P
2578 signatures as of right now.
Josh Brandt
Steve Linberg <slin...@crocker.com> wrote:
>For what it's worth - probably not very much - there's an online
>petition for a Mac version of HL2.
>
>http://www.petitiononline.com/hl2mac/
>
>Will it affect the circumstances or chances of a port in the slightest?
As you note, nope, I'm pretty sure it won't.
There are pretty major barriers to this one ever happening, not the least of
which is the whole Steam thing.
Josh
--
J. Brandt / m...@solipsism.net / mu...@sidehack.gweep.net
alias
Michael Koenig
> For what it's worth - probably not very much - there's an online
> petition for a Mac version of HL2.
> http://www.petitiononline.com/hl2mac/
I also don't think that it might help, but at least we've tried it.
--
M.I.K.e
(The crownless again shall be King.)
Deutsche BeOS FAQ: <http://www.be-faq.de/>
C Lund
I dunno... we may just as well end up with a rerun of the previous HL
spectacle (iow almost done and then yanked). I'll be interestetd in a
HL2 for OS X, but I'm not going to even bother thinking about it until
it actually hits the shelves.
--
C Lund, www.notam02.no/~clund
Michael Anderson
clund-43580E....@amstwist00.chello.com, "C Lund"
<cl...@NOSPAMnotam02.no> wrote:
I know what you're saying ...what if the game is the next Unreal II ?
There's a lot of games in the just done 'GameSpy's Top 25 Overrated Games',
in which a summing statement went something like '...marvel at the effect
that pretty graphics and massive pre-release hype can have on the mind of
gamers ...'
So far, that is all HL2 is ... Pretty graphics and massive hype. I have no
doubt it will get >90% scores in reviews all over because of that.
Mike
Harry Al-Shakarchi
Michael Anderson <txa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> So far, that is all HL2 is ... Pretty graphics and massive hype. I have no
> doubt it will get >90% scores in reviews all over because of that.
>
> Mike
>
Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 are just tech demos. It's when developers licence
the engines to make games it gets interesting.
--
Harry Al-Shakarchi | tomeone at bungie dot org
C Lund
> clund-43580E....@amstwist00.chello.com, "C Lund"
> <cl...@NOSPAMnotam02.no> wrote:
> > In article <slinberg-C8205C...@netnews.attbi.com>,
> > Steve Linberg <slin...@crocker.com> wrote:
> >> For what it's worth - probably not very much - there's an online
> >> petition for a Mac version of HL2.
> >> http://www.petitiononline.com/hl2mac/
> >> Will it affect the circumstances or chances of a port in the slightest?
> >> Probably not. Might it make you feel good to go clicky-clicky just in
> >> case? Perhaps. :P
> >> 2578 signatures as of right now.
> > I dunno... we may just as well end up with a rerun of the previous HL
> > spectacle (iow almost done and then yanked). I'll be interestetd in a
> > HL2 for OS X, but I'm not going to even bother thinking about it until
> > it actually hits the shelves.
> I know what you're saying ...what if the game is the next Unreal II ?
> There's a lot of games in the just done 'GameSpy's Top 25 Overrated Games',
> in which a summing statement went something like '...marvel at the effect
> that pretty graphics and massive pre-release hype can have on the mind of
> gamers ...'
That wasn't what I was saying (not what I meant to say anyway). What I
meant was that the original HL was 99% done and then they yanked it.
That may well happen with an eventual mac version of HL2 - which is
why I won't even think about it until it's in the shelves.
> So far, that is all HL2 is ... Pretty graphics and massive hype. I have no
> doubt it will get >90% scores in reviews all over because of that.
Judging by what I've been told, the original HL wasn't that much
either. The first half hour was very good, but the rest was just your
standard "shoot-it-if-it-moves" game - or so I'm told. What made HL
such a big loss to us maccies are the 3rd party addons.
> Mike
>
--
C Lund, www.notam02.no/~clund
Josh Brandt
C Lund <cl...@NOSPAMnotam02.no> wrote:
>Judging by what I've been told, the original HL wasn't that much
>either. The first half hour was very good, but the rest was just your
>standard "shoot-it-if-it-moves" game - or so I'm told. What made HL
>such a big loss to us maccies are the 3rd party addons.
Well, no.
Half-Life had a few interesting and neat innovations. The most obvious was
the enemy AI-- the things you shoot were fairly bright, and would use cover
in useful ways and communicate with one another and so on. It made it much
more challenging. They would also effectively use their weapons-- a lot of
effort went into making them tough through more than just giving them tons
of health.
The next piece that made Half-Life memorable is the comprehensive in-game
scripting capabilities, which were put to good use.
Finally, and this is one people don't think about until you point it out to
them, Half-Life was a totally immersive experience. From the ride into the
Black Mesa Research Facility at the beginning until the end, there are no
cut-scenes and no cuts to a "Loading..." screen. New levels load while you
move (in a much less disruptive fashion than Deus Ex, even), and scripted
plot elements take place in the actual game. No cut-scenes, no "Click a
swich and it shows you a door opening somewhere else" things, almost nothing
to break the flow of the game at all. To my knowledge, no other game has
managed to do this as effectively as Half-Life.
It remains one of the top few memorable video game experiences. Even without
cross-platform multiplayer, the Mac community is worse off for not having a
chance to play through the single-player game.
Michael Koenig
[Half-Life a stupid shooter?]
> Well, no.
>
> Half-Life had a few interesting and neat innovations. The most obvious
> was the enemy AI-- the things you shoot were fairly bright, and would
> use cover in useful ways and communicate with one another and so on.
Well, the first aliens were pretty dumb, but I guess that was on
purpose.
But everyone I've spoken to seems to remember the first fight with human
Marines, when you think you can ambush them, because they are below your
position, and even before you make your first move to attack you hear
"Fire in the hole!" and a grenade flies your way. And after you finished
off those guys that were running around all over the place, taking
cover, and you though it must be at least half a dozen, it's a big
surprise that it was only two or three of them.
> The next piece that made Half-Life memorable is the comprehensive
> in-game scripting capabilities, which were put to good use.
Yes, Half-Life did a very good job in keeping the story alive and giving
it various twist, unlike Unreal, which I found pretty boring after a
while.
But I'm not one of the people who claim that Half-Life brought story
into the first-person-shooter genre, because people who do that seem to
forget about Jedi Knight.
> Finally, and this is one people don't think about until you point it
> out to them, Half-Life was a totally immersive experience.
The atmosphere was outstanding at the time. The attention to detail was
great, down to the squeeky shoes on tiles.
The only thing about Half-Life I didn't like too much, was the Xen
world.
> From the ride into the Black Mesa Research Facility at the beginning
> until the end, there are no cut-scenes and no cuts to a "Loading..."
> screen.
Well, you see "Loading" from time to time when you pass certain map
sections, but that's just for a second or even less, so you really have
to feeling of walking through one huge level.
> It remains one of the top few memorable video game experiences. Even
> without cross-platform multiplayer, the Mac community is worse off for
> not having a chance to play through the single-player game.
Very true. I tend to pick my games for single player quality anyway.
Josh Brandt
Michael Koenig <miko...@web.de> wrote:
>Well, the first aliens were pretty dumb, but I guess that was on
>purpose.
Ya. False sense of security, and all that. And you know the first time a
headcrab jumped at you, you just about wet yourself, right? 8)
>Yes, Half-Life did a very good job in keeping the story alive and giving
>it various twist, unlike Unreal, which I found pretty boring after a
>while.
Ya. Unreal stopped being story and started being "Pretty!" after a while.
>But I'm not one of the people who claim that Half-Life brought story
>into the first-person-shooter genre, because people who do that seem to
>forget about Jedi Knight.
*cough*Marathon*cough*
>> Finally, and this is one people don't think about until you point it
>> out to them, Half-Life was a totally immersive experience.
>
>The atmosphere was outstanding at the time. The attention to detail was
>great, down to the squeeky shoes on tiles.
>The only thing about Half-Life I didn't like too much, was the Xen
>world.
I'm probably the only one, but I really liked Xen. I thought it was neat.
You're all just wimps. 8)
>> From the ride into the Black Mesa Research Facility at the beginning
>> until the end, there are no cut-scenes and no cuts to a "Loading..."
>> screen.
>
>Well, you see "Loading" from time to time when you pass certain map
>sections, but that's just for a second or even less, so you really have
>to feeling of walking through one huge level.
Ya. That's the most important part. And it really is for a few split
seconds, and it's not intrusive, which is the important part. No
screen-dimming like in Deus Ex, no "You've made it through Level 7! Here are
your stats!" screens or anything...
>> It remains one of the top few memorable video game experiences. Even
>> without cross-platform multiplayer, the Mac community is worse off for
>> not having a chance to play through the single-player game.
>
>Very true. I tend to pick my games for single player quality anyway.
Ya. Me too. Good multiplayer is a bonus, but not one that'll pull me in
without a good single-player experience.
Steve Linberg
mu...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net (Josh Brandt) wrote:
> >But I'm not one of the people who claim that Half-Life brought story
> >into the first-person-shooter genre, because people who do that seem to
> >forget about Jedi Knight.
>
> *cough*Marathon*cough*
*seconded*
The Marathon story had me absolutely gripped. I couldn't *wait* to get
to the next terminal. :)
Michael Koenig
> And you know the first time a headcrab jumped at you, you just about
> wet yourself, right? 8)
Indeed, especially since one had no weapon at that time ;-)
> Unreal stopped being story and started being "Pretty!" after a while.
Unreal looked great from the beginnig. When I saw the flyby on a Voodoo
card for the first time I was speechless. But when there is absolutely
no story then even the best eye candy cannot hold me for long. And in
the case of Unreal you got fewer and fewer of these translator messages,
which made it pretty boring.
[First decent story in FPS: Half-Life or Jedi Knight?]
> *cough*Marathon*cough*
I've heard good things about Marathon, but I cannot judge it myself
because Apple currently assemble my first Mac, so I'm pretty new to
MacOS and I don't even have the computer yet.
But Half-Life also was my first PC game, because I had an Acorn RiscPC
and an Atari ST before. It seems I'm switching to a totally different
computer architecture every few years, but always keep the old ones of
course.
Anyway, since my PC very likely is too slow for Half-Life 2 I'd really
like to see it on the PowerMac, as it's the only PC game that would be
interesting for me in the near future.
> I'm probably the only one, but I really liked Xen. I thought it was
> neat.
I think it was too much of a change from all the previous design (OK, it
was meant to be alien), and jumping onto platforms that float in the
middle of void is a bit odd.
> You're all just wimps. 8)
Yeah, probably ;-)
[short loading => virtually one big level]
> Ya. That's the most important part. And it really is for a few split
> seconds, and it's not intrusive, which is the important part. No
> screen-dimming like in Deus Ex, no "You've made it through Level 7!
> Here are your stats!" screens or anything...
Also by having no HUD in the beginning, and giving you the HUD as soon
as you put the HEV suit on the game really makes you believe that you
are Gordon Freeman.
Josh Brandt
Michael Koenig <miko...@web.de> wrote:
>Josh Brandt wrote:
>> And you know the first time a headcrab jumped at you, you just about
>> wet yourself, right? 8)
>
>Indeed, especially since one had no weapon at that time ;-)
Yup!
Heck, I played it again, and there are still places that startle me, even
though I've played through HL four times or so in the past few years.
>> Unreal stopped being story and started being "Pretty!" after a while.
>
>Unreal looked great from the beginnig. When I saw the flyby on a Voodoo
>card for the first time I was speechless. But when there is absolutely
>no story then even the best eye candy cannot hold me for long. And in
>the case of Unreal you got fewer and fewer of these translator messages,
>which made it pretty boring.
Yup. And they were pretty pointless and ignorable, really. Unreal was ALMOST
a really great game. It mostly gets points these days for being the first
game to really beat the crap out of hardware and take advantage of 3D
acceleration.
>[First decent story in FPS: Half-Life or Jedi Knight?]
>> *cough*Marathon*cough*
>
>I've heard good things about Marathon, but I cannot judge it myself
>because Apple currently assemble my first Mac, so I'm pretty new to
>MacOS and I don't even have the computer yet.
Ah ha. Well, hm. I'm not sure the original game will still play, but you
might look at source.bungie.org and see if there are things you can download
there.
Marathon was the first shooter to really have a plot and be more than
run-n-gun. It was certainly heavy on run-n-gun, but the plot woven around
that made it really interesting and created characters that endure to this
day (thanks to Halo, heh).
>But Half-Life also was my first PC game, because I had an Acorn RiscPC
>and an Atari ST before. It seems I'm switching to a totally different
>computer architecture every few years, but always keep the old ones of
>course.
I bet your basement (or closet?) looks like mine, then...
>Anyway, since my PC very likely is too slow for Half-Life 2 I'd really
>like to see it on the PowerMac, as it's the only PC game that would be
>interesting for me in the near future.
Ah. Well, chances are it won't make it, but you never know.
>> I'm probably the only one, but I really liked Xen. I thought it was
>> neat.
>
>I think it was too much of a change from all the previous design (OK, it
>was meant to be alien), and jumping onto platforms that float in the
>middle of void is a bit odd.
I liked the look of it-- rock formations and floating things and alien
critters in their own environments and so on...
>[short loading => virtually one big level]
>> Ya. That's the most important part. And it really is for a few split
>> seconds, and it's not intrusive, which is the important part. No
>> screen-dimming like in Deus Ex, no "You've made it through Level 7!
>> Here are your stats!" screens or anything...
>
>Also by having no HUD in the beginning, and giving you the HUD as soon
>as you put the HEV suit on the game really makes you believe that you
>are Gordon Freeman.
Yep. That's also a nice touch.
Michael Koenig
> Heck, I played it again, and there are still places that startle me,
> even though I've played through HL four times or so in the past few
> years.
If the atmosphere is right the same cheap shocks will work over and over
again.
[Unreal]
> It mostly gets points these days for being the first game to really
> beat the crap out of hardware and take advantage of 3D acceleration.
I guess so, and it still looks best with Glide, because all 3Dfx
chipsets seem to have some bugs in it. The weirdest thing I saw was that
on one graphics card the net-like surface of some elevators were totally
missing, so you felt as standing on air.
I also don't like Quake 2 and 3. Quake 2 was just Quake with better
graphics, but as soon as GLQuake was available Quake 2 looked bad again.
And Quake 3 is just a good engine, but all you do is run around in
mainly circular rooms fragging other players or bots - what's the point?
The only reasons why I still like the first Quake are:
1. It was the first real 3D engine.
2. It had several Lovercraft references (probably thanks to level
designer Sandy Peterson, who did the original Call of Cthuluh RPG).
3. QuakeC, which made mods quite easy and also totally protable, while
mods for Quake 2 and 3 have to be recompiled for every system.
[Marathon]
> Ah ha. Well, hm. I'm not sure the original game will still play, but
> you might look at source.bungie.org and see if there are things you
> can download there.
I think there is an open source engine called AlephOne, which also plays
some Marathon demo. I believe I tested that once.
> Marathon was the first shooter to really have a plot and be more than
> run-n-gun. It was certainly heavy on run-n-gun, but the plot woven
> around that made it really interesting and created characters that
> endure to this day (thanks to Halo, heh).
I'll have to think of maybe getting Halo for the Mac, because so farI
have mainly old games that also run on the Mac (Starcraft, Quake), or
could do some uber-nostalgia thing with ScummVM and some emulators, but
I somewhat lack games to really use the power of the system.
I already downloaded TenebraeQuake to see at least a part of what the
Radeon 9800 Pro is capable of.
[computer collection]
> I bet your basement (or closet?) looks like mine, then...
Actually, all my computers still sit on or under one normal desk and a
special self-made computer desk. I have a special switch that PC,
RiscPC, and BeBox (adn actually a Dreamcast as well) can use the same
monitor and keyboard, otherwise I'd need a lot more space.
Unfortunately my MegaSTE has to move because I need the space on the
desk for the Apple Studio Display when it arrives.
[Half-Life 2 on Mac]
> Ah. Well, chances are it won't make it, but you never know.
I think it's quite unlikely that they or someone else will port
Half-Life 2 to the PowerMac, but one should at least try to remind them
that there is yet another possible platform.
[Xen]
> I liked the look of it-- rock formations and floating things and alien
> critters in their own environments and so on...
When it comes to alien worlds I prefer Adelpha, the world from the game
Outcast.
C Lund
Michael Koenig <miko...@web.de> wrote:
> I've heard good things about Marathon, but I cannot judge it myself
> because Apple currently assemble my first Mac, so I'm pretty new to
> MacOS and I don't even have the computer yet.
You won't be able to play Marathon natively on your mac, since your
machine will probably not be able to boot into OS 9. However, if you
go to
you can find a version that does run on OS X, plus (I think) all the
files you need to run the thing. Beware: The graphics engine is really
archaic by today's standards. We're talking DOOM-type tech here. If
you want pretty graphics then this isn't for you. But that doesn't
seem to be the case judging by this thread.
If you want to take a look at parts of the story before playing, go to
http://marathon.bungie.org/story/
and scroll down the navbar on the left. First you'll find all the
generic entries. Followed by all the term texts in the game, and
finally the "Facts and puzzling things about..." section. Take a peek
at some random entries, and you'll get an idea about the depth of the
story. Yes, there are plenty of spoilers there, but there's so much to
"spoil" that a quick peek won't ruin the game for you. B)
--
C Lund, www.notam02.no/~clund
Steve Linberg
> Unreal was ALMOST
> a really great game. It mostly gets points these days for being the first
> game to really beat the crap out of hardware and take advantage of 3D
> acceleration.
Colored lights! woooooooooooooo...
I never finished the SP game - I think I got about 2/3 of the way
through it. There were some fun levels, though... I loved the one right
before the Sunspire, which you approached from a huge distance away with
a gigantic, long, sloping hill leading to a narrow stone bridge over an
immense lava lake. My favorite part of the game was being at the top of
that hill and lining up that immensely long shot to try to hit the
Skaarj (?) guarding the bridge, who was only four or five pixels high at
that distance, with a rocket, knocking his tiny, tiny figure off the
bridge and slowly down to the lava. :)
Josh Brandt
Michael Koenig <miko...@web.de> wrote:
>I also don't like Quake 2 and 3. Quake 2 was just Quake with better
>graphics, but as soon as GLQuake was available Quake 2 looked bad again.
Ya. I missed Quake 2 the first time, and by the time I got to play it, I was
really wondering what the point of it was... It's not particuarly plotful,
and was just better graphics. I don't think GLquake was that big of a deal,
though, but it was nice, yes.
>And Quake 3 is just a good engine, but all you do is run around in
>mainly circular rooms fragging other players or bots - what's the point?
Quake 3 is mostly useful, I think, as a basis for other things. Same with UT
and UT2K3, although they're fun in crowds and as group activities. Not so
hot for single-player, except as practice for those group activites...
>The only reasons why I still like the first Quake are:
>1. It was the first real 3D engine.
>2. It had several Lovercraft references (probably thanks to level
>designer Sandy Peterson, who did the original Call of Cthuluh RPG).
Yup. 8) I was very happy to find that they were, in fact, the same person.
>3. QuakeC, which made mods quite easy and also totally protable, while
>mods for Quake 2 and 3 have to be recompiled for every system.
Quake 3 doesn't, I don't believe. That was something they decided to get
away from when they made it a cross-platform engine.
>[Marathon]
>> you might look at source.bungie.org and see if there are things you
>
>I think there is an open source engine called AlephOne, which also plays
>some Marathon demo. I believe I tested that once.
That's what I'm pointing you at. 8)
>I'll have to think of maybe getting Halo for the Mac, because so farI
>have mainly old games that also run on the Mac (Starcraft, Quake), or
>could do some uber-nostalgia thing with ScummVM and some emulators, but
>I somewhat lack games to really use the power of the system.
>I already downloaded TenebraeQuake to see at least a part of what the
>Radeon 9800 Pro is capable of.
Ayuh. I was pretty impressed with that, too, although it still has the
majorly boxy Quake architecture.
I also tried out (on the PC) the rendering engine replacements that make it
look like pencil sketches. That was a pretty neat thing to see, although it
was kind of hard to play. I'd like to see an impressionistic FPS engine. The
Radeon 9800 Pro demos include a piece using a non-photorealistic rendering
style that does a neat rotating table with stuff on it rendered as if it was
drawn in colored pencil. It was very cool. The cel animation-style rendering
that's become popular recently is a start, although I'd like to see
something artier rather than cartoony. Imagine a Myst-style game rendered as
watercolor...
>[computer collection]
>> I bet your basement (or closet?) looks like mine, then...
>
>Actually, all my computers still sit on or under one normal desk and a
>special self-made computer desk. I have a special switch that PC,
>RiscPC, and BeBox (adn actually a Dreamcast as well) can use the same
>monitor and keyboard, otherwise I'd need a lot more space.
>Unfortunately my MegaSTE has to move because I need the space on the
>desk for the Apple Studio Display when it arrives.
That's a pretty good collection, actually. 8) The BeBox is a collector's
item these days.
I also have a Dreamcast, although since SoulCalibur II came out, the PS2 has
supplanted it... It's still my favorite console so far...
>[Xen]
>> I liked the look of it-- rock formations and floating things and alien
>> critters in their own environments and so on...
>
>When it comes to alien worlds I prefer Adelpha, the world from the game
>Outcast.
Hm, haven't played it.
Brad Oliver
> >3. QuakeC, which made mods quite easy and also totally protable, while
> >mods for Quake 2 and 3 have to be recompiled for every system.
>
> Quake 3 doesn't, I don't believe. That was something they decided to get
> away from when they made it a cross-platform engine.
You can run Quake 3 mods as interpreted QuakeC byte-code or recompile
them to native DLLs. Obviously the latter is frowned upon, but you can
certainly still do it.
--
Brad Oliver
bra...@pobox.com.AM_SPAY
Josh Brandt
Ah ha, okay. Obviously that's farther into it than I ever got.
Thanks for the clarification.
Michael Koenig
>> I've heard good things about Marathon, but I cannot judge it myself
>> because Apple currently assemble my first Mac, so I'm pretty new to
>> MacOS and I don't even have the computer yet.
>
> You won't be able to play Marathon natively on your mac, since your
> machine will probably not be able to boot into OS 9. However, if you
> go to
> http://source.bungie.org/
> you can find a version that does run on OS X, plus (I think) all the
> files you need to run the thing.
Thanks!
> Beware: The graphics engine is really archaic by today's standards.
> We're talking DOOM-type tech here. If you want pretty graphics then
> this isn't for you. But that doesn't seem to be the case judging by
> this thread.
I'm pretty sure that I gave AlephOne/SDL a brief look under BeOS, so I
think I know what to expect.
I planned to play some of my older games again anyway, because I've
never managed to get DOS sound from my PC sound-card, and the G5 should
be more than fast enough to emulate most of my DOS games. Unfortunately
VirtualPC doesn't run on the G5 (yet?), so I have to try DOSbox and
Bochs instead.
> If you want to take a look at parts of the story before playing, go to
> http://marathon.bungie.org/story/
> and scroll down the navbar on the left.
Thanks again.
Michael Koenig
> Quake 3 is mostly useful, I think, as a basis for other things.
Or as a standard 3D benchmark ;-)
[Quake]
>>2. It had several Lovercraft references (probably thanks to level
>>designer Sandy Peterson, who did the original Call of Cthuluh RPG).
> Yup. 8) I was very happy to find that they were, in fact, the same
> person.
It seems I've come to the right place ;-)
>>3. QuakeC, which made mods quite easy and also totally protable,
>> while mods for Quake 2 and 3 have to be recompiled for every system.
> Quake 3 doesn't, I don't believe. That was something they decided to
> get away from when they made it a cross-platform engine.
Oh, I must have missed that. While compiled machine code certainly is
more efficient, I think QuakeC was a nice idea and most if not all mods
worked on my RiscPC as well.
>>I already downloaded TenebraeQuake to see at least a part of what the
>>Radeon 9800 Pro is capable of.
> Ayuh. I was pretty impressed with that, too, although it still has the
> majorly boxy Quake architecture.
I guess one has to use some of the newer levels they made for it to have
a higher poly count.
> I also tried out (on the PC) the rendering engine replacements that
> make it look like pencil sketches. That was a pretty neat thing to
> see, although it was kind of hard to play.
Sounds like something I've seen on TV once.
> I'd like to see an impressionistic FPS engine.
I'm not really into arts so I might be wrong, but I guess the
cel-shading look of XIII might be like that.
> The cel animation-style rendering that's become popular recently is a
> start, although I'd like to see something artier rather than cartoony.
Although the new Zelda certainly looks far better than most people
think, but that's also due to the very good animation.
> Imagine a Myst-style game rendered as watercolor...
Might look nice, but they question is if it played that well.
>>[computer collection]
> That's a pretty good collection, actually. 8)
I think I have a good taste in computers if I may say so. OK, the PC
doesn't really fit in there...
> The BeBox is a collector's item these days.
I know. It's actually the last computer I got, because I bought it
second hand from someone I new from Usenet and IRC. Around that time
less well-equipped BeBoxen were sold on eBay for almost twice the price
I paid.
> I also have a Dreamcast, although since SoulCalibur II came out, the
> PS2 has supplanted it... It's still my favorite console so far...
I have a PS2 as well, but very few games for it. My current favourite
console is the Gamecube. Everytime I play a game on the PS2 when I've
used the Gamecube not too long ago, two things drive me nuts: the louder
fan, and the longer loading times.
[Outcast]
> Hm, haven't played it.
One of my favourite games, because it simply looks and feels different
than anything else.
Michael Anderson
"Michael Koenig" <miko...@web.de> wrote:
> Josh Brandt wrote:
<snip>
>> I'd like to see an impressionistic FPS engine.
>
> I'm not really into arts so I might be wrong, but I guess the
> cel-shading look of XIII might be like that.
>
I like the look of XIII, and the demo played nicely. It seems to be really
pretty standard FPS action fare, but the way it is presented makes it look
much more interesting than stuff like Halo/Breed/Chrome.
I just never got into HL2 (sorry to go back to topic ;) ). IMO, Jedi Knight
and Deus Ex were much more interesting games of that era (pre and post HL),
and HL is just the one everyone seems to have latched on to as the Holy
Grail of gaming. I find it overrated, and assume HL2 will also be
overrated.
Mike
Josh Brandt
Michael Koenig <miko...@web.de> wrote:
>> I'd like to see an impressionistic FPS engine.
>
>I'm not really into arts so I might be wrong, but I guess the
>cel-shading look of XIII might be like that.
It is, somewhat, although that seems to be the trendy thing now.
Jet Grind Radio was the first game I saw that really took advantage of that
sort of different rendering style.
>> Imagine a Myst-style game rendered as watercolor...
>
>Might look nice, but they question is if it played that well.
Well, sure. If only RealMyst hadn't ignored the rest of the game industrie's
standard methods of moving around in a first-person 3D game, it might have
been great, and it was trying to be photorealistic.
Imagine it as pencil sketches, too. How pretty would that be?
>> The BeBox is a collector's item these days.
>
>I know. It's actually the last computer I got, because I bought it
>second hand from someone I new from Usenet and IRC. Around that time
>less well-equipped BeBoxen were sold on eBay for almost twice the price
>I paid.
Ayup.
I have a friend who had one of the double-digit serial numbered ones, too. I
don't know what he's up to these days, but it was sure neat to see that...
>I have a PS2 as well, but very few games for it. My current favourite
>console is the Gamecube. Everytime I play a game on the PS2 when I've
>used the Gamecube not too long ago, two things drive me nuts: the louder
>fan, and the longer loading times.
Hm, yeah. I've never used a GC, since I tend to go by what games are out,
and I wanted to play Frequency when it first came out (they're Boston
people, and the studio is made up largely of ex-Looking Glass Studios
folks.)
>[Outcast]
>> Hm, haven't played it.
>
>One of my favourite games, because it simply looks and feels different
>than anything else.
I'll check it out...
Josh Brandt
Michael Anderson <txa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I just never got into HL2 (sorry to go back to topic ;) ). IMO, Jedi Knight
>and Deus Ex were much more interesting games of that era (pre and post HL),
>and HL is just the one everyone seems to have latched on to as the Holy
>Grail of gaming. I find it overrated, and assume HL2 will also be
>overrated.
Mm. All three of those games were trying to do different things, though, I
think. They're comparable as far as engine technology goes (although JK
suffers a bit from really strange modelling-- everbody looks weird and
skinny), and Deus Ex had another agenda entirely. HL was a good and solid
game, and I think it deserves the reputation it had, for reasons I explained
elsewhere in this thread.
C Lund
Michael Koenig <miko...@web.de> wrote:
> C Lund wrote:
> > Beware: The graphics engine is really archaic by today's standards.
> > We're talking DOOM-type tech here. If you want pretty graphics then
> > this isn't for you. But that doesn't seem to be the case judging by
> > this thread.
> I'm pretty sure that I gave AlephOne/SDL a brief look under BeOS, so I
> think I know what to expect.
> I planned to play some of my older games again anyway, because I've
> never managed to get DOS sound from my PC sound-card, and the G5 should
> be more than fast enough to emulate most of my DOS games. Unfortunately
> VirtualPC doesn't run on the G5 (yet?), so I have to try DOSbox and
> Bochs instead.
You have your first run through the Marathon Trilogy ahead of you
(plus all the addons). I envy you. B)
I have no idea how many times I've played through the thing.
> > If you want to take a look at parts of the story before playing, go to
> > http://marathon.bungie.org/story/
> > and scroll down the navbar on the left.
> Thanks again.
You're welcome. B)
--
C Lund, www.notam02.no/~clund
PudThumper
clund-8A3DFF....@amstwist00.chello.com, "C Lund"
<cl...@NOSPAMnotam02.no> wrote:
> In article <PM0003C7E...@wintermute.unknown.dom>,
> Michael Koenig <miko...@web.de> wrote:
>
>> I've heard good things about Marathon, but I cannot judge it myself
>> because Apple currently assemble my first Mac, so I'm pretty new to
>> MacOS and I don't even have the computer yet.
>
> You won't be able to play Marathon natively on your mac, since your
> machine will probably not be able to boot into OS 9. However, if you
> go to
>
> http://source.bungie.org/
>
> you can find a version that does run on OS X, plus (I think) all the
> files you need to run the thing. Beware: The graphics engine is really
> archaic by today's standards. We're talking DOOM-type tech here. If
> you want pretty graphics then this isn't for you. But that doesn't
> seem to be the case judging by this thread.
>
Blasphemy! (please allow me a moment of nostalgia to explain).
That was the one point when the Mac environment was ahead of the PC because
(PC versions of) Doom and Doom2 were pixel-doubled and stuck at 256 colors
and had shitty sound files, while Marathon was not pixel-doubled (it could
be set that way, but not the default) and supported thousands of colors...
millions in Marathon 2, and CD-quality stereo sound.
I can remember evoking great envy among my PC buds with a slick
640-400x24-bit, CD-quality stereo, 8-way Marathon 2 LAN game compared to a
4-way Doom 2 match at a blocky pixel-doubled 320x200x8-bit with mediocre
sound. Even the Mac versions of Doom and Doom2 could by up-sampled to
640-400. (Hey the college computer labs had to be good for something didn't
they?)
Ah, those were the days.
Not that it changes the thrust of your post, but I just couldn't hold back
Michael Koenig
[cel-shading]
> It is, somewhat, although that seems to be the trendy thing now.
True, and few games use it for the best.
> Jet Grind Radio was the first game I saw that really took advantage of
> that sort of different rendering style.
Yeah, Sega have been quite innovative, but at the moment their games are
a bit shallow.
> Well, sure. If only RealMyst hadn't ignored the rest of the game
> industrie's standard methods of moving around in a first-person 3D
> game, it might have been great, and it was trying to be
> photorealistic.
Yeah, the game mechanics are outdated...
> Imagine it as pencil sketches, too. How pretty would that be?
I guess in that case I'd rather let my niece design a game for me ;-)
> Hm, yeah. I've never used a GC, since I tend to go by what games are
> out,
I'm also interested in the hardware of all my machines, and design-wise
I see the Gamecube as the successor of the Dreamcast.
In terms of games I wanted to have Rouge Leader und the Resident Evil
titles, but there are a lot of great titles I've gotten since.
> and I wanted to play Frequency when it first came out (they're Boston
> people, and the studio is made up largely of ex-Looking Glass Studios
> folks.)
Strange, the game Frequency doesn't ring a bell at all...
I only bought my PS2 because I got it cheap (the owner of the video
games shop that still existed back then sold me his hardly used PS2 for
a price where I couldn't resist), and because of MGS2, Silent Hill 2,
and ICO.
For some strange reason I haven't played too much ICO yet, and I haven't
finished MGS2 because Raiden and Big Shell just put me off. I even don't
rate Silent Hill 2 too high, because I'm a fan of the first one and
Silent Hill 3 is much better in recapturing the feeling and the story of
the original one, not to mention all those cool deja vu moments.
I just recently played through SOS - The Final Escape (Disaster Report
in the US), which reminded me that I want to play an adventure without
all the fighting again, so I got hold of a used copy of Shadows of
Memories (should be Shadows of Destiny in the US), but I've only played
the beginning so far because I wanted to finish PN03 on the GC first.
Apart from these my only other titles for the PS2 should be Project Zero
(Fatal Frame, which I haven't played properly yet) and Virtua Fighter 4.
>>[Outcast]
> I'll check it out...
If you do make sure that you either get the DVD edition or a patch for
the CD edition. The first edition of the game has a strange bug in the
installer that strikes when you have a DirecX 7 or higher installed; in
that case either the files aren't really copied or deleted again,
because after the installation process the application directory is
empty.
You also have to keep in mind that Outcast doesn't use 3D accelerators,
but has it's own vector and voxel engine in full software. This was a
slight performance problem on many PCs when the game first came out, but
nowadays it isn't a problem anymore.
On a side note, and to get back on Mac:
Apple just informed me that my G5 was shipped!
Michael Koenig
> I like the look of XIII, and the demo played nicely. It seems to be
> really pretty standard FPS action fare, but the way it is presented
> makes it look much more interesting than stuff like Halo/Breed/Chrome.
I only know some preview stuff from DVDs I get with a video game
magazine. I'm still not totally sure if it's my type of game or not, but
it certainly does look different.
> I just never got into HL2 (sorry to go back to topic ;) ).
How dare you! ;-)
> IMO, Jedi Knight and Deus Ex were much more interesting games of that
> era (pre and post HL), and HL is just the one everyone seems to have
> latched on to as the Holy Grail of gaming.
I already said in this game that I have a problem with most people
thinking of Half-Life being the game that brought a story-line into the
FPS genre, because it simply isn't true.
But Jedi Knight and Deus Ex are different.
Jedi Knight still is one of my all-time favourite games, but that's due
to the fact that I'm a real Star Wars freak, and as it features all the
great music and sound effects and even the FMVs are better than in the
other Star Wars games, I can look past the weakly textured and low-poly
graphics. Actually, I think that Jedi Knight still has some of the best
level designs ever. I mean, those levels are just huge, and bring that
larger than life approach of Star Wars far better across than Jedi
Outcast ever could, despite better graphics and a better implementation
of the force powers.
I have to admit that I haven't played Deus Ex, but there are also people
who think that it's overrated. I think someone wrote in an issue of UGVM
<http://www.ugvm.org.uk/> that the game first lured him into thinking
that all options were open to him, but at a certain point of the game he
was forced to choose a path the character he developed over several
hours gaming simply wouldn't have taken.
> I find it overrated, and assume HL2 will also be overrated.
I guess Half-Life is slightly overrated, but it's still one of the best
FPS games.
But in my opinion also Shogo and NOLF belong to that group...
Josh Brandt
Michael Koenig <miko...@web.de> wrote:
>I have to admit that I haven't played Deus Ex, but there are also people
>who think that it's overrated. I think someone wrote in an issue of UGVM
><http://www.ugvm.org.uk/> that the game first lured him into thinking
>that all options were open to him, but at a certain point of the game he
>was forced to choose a path the character he developed over several
>hours gaming simply wouldn't have taken.
This is true, actually. This is one of the weaknesses of DX, and it's one
that Spector and his crew have been taking pains to address in DX2.
>I guess Half-Life is slightly overrated, but it's still one of the best
>FPS games.
>But in my opinion also Shogo and NOLF belong to that group...
Mmm. NOLF more than Shogo, I think. Shogo was deeply flawed-- incredibly
stupid enemies make it kind of tedious to play, for example, and the
character models were REALLY weird, even for when it came out.
Michael Koenig
[Deus Ex not always giving options]
> This is true, actually. This is one of the weaknesses of DX, and it's
> one that Spector and his crew have been taking pains to address in
> DX2.
We'll see if they manage to do it or not. The more options the player
has in certain cases, the more difficult it is to tell a decent
storyline, I think.
[best FPS]
>>But in my opinion also Shogo and NOLF belong to that group...
> Mmm. NOLF more than Shogo, I think.
Sure, NOLF certainly is better than Shogo, no doubt about that.
> Shogo was deeply flawed-- incredibly stupid enemies make it kind of
> tedious to play, for example, and the character models were REALLY
> weird, even for when it came out.
Yes, but it's fun and doesn't take itself too serious. I've played Shogo
again not too long ago and I still like it.