Mac a risky bet for database development
R RECYCLE
datafile type architechtures. Orace (powerbuilder), Delphi, Visual
FoxPro, Access, Visual Dbase, and hundreds I haven't mentioned. Many of
these companies are stable enough to justify a big investment in software
development
With the Mac your stuck betting on smaller companies like ACIUS (4D);
Blyth (OMNIS); or worse companies also selling competing OS's (like
Microsoft FoxPro).
You gotta' want to gamble that Apple and these companies will still be
around in five years. Somthing I used to be convinced of, but now am
beginning to have some doubts about.
So much computer... so little software.
W. Keith McManus
RECYCLE) wrote:
I've heard the same argument since the day the Macintosh was introduced.
Have a rich environment here without the headaches of DOS/Windows/Windows95/Etc.
--
W. Keith McManus - Photo Editor
U.S. News & World Report
Washington,DC
kmcm...@usnews.com
Keith...@aol.com
Keith...@eWorld.com
Documentary Photography & Video
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Doug Bitting
> With the Mac your stuck betting on smaller companies like ACIUS (4D);
> Blyth (OMNIS); or worse companies also selling competing OS's (like
> Microsoft FoxPro).
I must disagree. While I am not sure what Sybase's offerings are for the
Macintosh (other than I know Sybase has a presence in the Mac market), I
can tell you there is plenty of Oracle Software available for the
Macintosh.
For instance, Oracle Power Objects has received great acceptance from the
database programming community. Oracle Forms, Reports, and Graphics are
available, and Developer/2000 is soon to debut on the Macintosh. Finally,
Personal Oracle7 for the Power Macintosh is in its final stages of
development, so you will be able to run Oracle7 on your Macintosh.
These are just a few things available from Oracle for the Macintosh.
While programs such as 4D, Omnis, or FoxPro have received much of the
mindshare of the Macintosh Database market (due to their retail sales),
they are by no means all that is available.
Regards,
--Doug
--
Doug Bitting
Oracle Desktop Products Division
Macintosh Software Engineer
(415) 506-4516
William E. Elston
>> Pure Hogwash!! 4D has an installed base of well over a million users. With
>> it's recent Windows port, I suspect that it will increase dramatically
>> (provided they get their pricing and licensing schtick together.)
>
>So to illustrate that R. Recycle's comment about Apple and the software
>companies is pure hogwash, you state that 4D's installed base will
>increase due to a Windows port? Seems like you've just made his point
>for him (and you also infer that this million+ DB product isn't very
>savvy about pricing and licensing....doesn't sound like a strong
>recommendation to me).
>
>> As for software, there are over 1,400 PowerPC native applications shipping
>> right now. I can't even fit 1,400 applications on my HD. How many Pentium
>> native apps are shipping? Better yet, how many 486 native apps are
>> shipping?
>
>The number of machines you can sell your product to is more relevant
>than the number of applications available to do the development with.
>If there's that many PPC native apps, obviously there are many
>developers willing to gamble.....again illustrating his point.
You have an interesting way of turning one's arguments around. Over a
million users does not seem too paltry, with or without a Windows port,
and in spite of what *I* think are steep entry level, upgrade and
licensing policies. Address your argument to that.
As for the number of machines that you can sell your product to, well,
within the last fiscal year 24% of the software sold in dollar volume was
sold on the Mac platform, where Macs comprise only 12% of the desktop
market world-wide. In other words twice as much product was moved than the
percentage commanded by the platform's installed base. Additionally,
support costs for that software are minimal compared to Windows, where
huge support costs cut deeply into a vendor's profit margin (in the CD-ROM
industry, such support costs can eliminate profit altogether.) Even
Microsoft admits that they make more money off of their Mac software.
Finally, throw in the consideration that the Mac is just more interesting
and sexy to write for, and you'll understand why the Mac developer
community is growing. There are many more relevant factors governing
developers' desires to commit to a platform, and you have obviously not
considered many of them. I don't think that this illustrates his point at
all.
--
William E. Elston <URL:http://www.halcyon.com/welston/>
Gordon Tillman
writes:
>The PC enjoys a rich relational database environment for client server or
>datafile type architechtures. Orace (powerbuilder), Delphi, Visual
>FoxPro, Access, Visual Dbase, and hundreds I haven't mentioned. Many of
>these companies are stable enough to justify a big investment in software
>development
Dear R. Recycle,
I have developed several applications on the Mac using FoxPro.
--gordon tillman
Andrew Calvin
> With the Mac your stuck betting on smaller companies like ACIUS (4D);
> Blyth (OMNIS); or worse companies also selling competing OS's (like
> Microsoft FoxPro).
>
Apple's results in Australia last financial year were $345,000,000 and
worldwide revenues of $11,000,000,000.
You don't have to be like everyone else to be safe. In fact, that is how
you become better than the rest.
-- Andrew Calvin
-- Phillips Fox Solicitors
-- a...@pfox.dialix.oz.au
R RECYCLE
wrong.
I own the business using the Mac with Omnis 7 as our database platform.
It's not any one big problem that causes me to reconsider my choice of
Macs, and I am well aware of the advantages. Rather, its the thousands of
little and costly problems... like not being able to reliably bypass the
chooser for the hundreds of reports we print daily onto different
stationary, or the inability to find a greyscale and networkable fax
solution that integrates with our database, or the sudden crashes, freezes
and bombs from time - time. Then there's the half our wait at
1800SOSAPPLE, and I could go on forever.
The fact seems to be that other businesses, using PC's benefit from the
availability or more development -- and I finally (after 6 years) now
understand what a big point that really was.
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Steven Cogorno
In article <46onkf$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> rrec...@aol.com (R RECYCLE) writes:
>I own the business using the Mac with Omnis 7 as our database platform.
>It's not any one big problem that causes me to reconsider my choice of
>Macs, and I am well aware of the advantages. Rather, its the thousands of
>little and costly problems... like not being able to reliably bypass the
>chooser for the hundreds of reports we print daily onto different
>stationary, or the inability to find a greyscale and networkable fax
>solution that integrates with our database, or the sudden crashes, freezes
>and bombs from time - time. Then there's the half our wait at
>1800SOSAPPLE, and I could go on forever.
>The fact seems to be that other businesses, using PC's benefit from the
>availability or more development -- and I finally (after 6 years) now
>understand what a big point that really was.
As a computer scientist, I can assure you that MS-DOS based machines
are no better, and in many cases quite a bit worse. The underlying
operating system thaqt Intel machines use is VERY flawed. With
MacOS 8.0 on it's way, you should see a much more stable and flexible
environment for your Macintosh.
To the poster who speculated that Apple may not be around in 5 years:
I wouldn't bet on that. Apple and IBM are very close to a merger.
In five years, I wouldn't be surprised if the Apple-IBM company
outsells clones.
AW
<mitc...@vax.sbu.ac.uk> wrote:
> > As a computer scientist, I can assure you that MS-DOS based machines
> > are no better, and in many cases quite a bit worse. The underlying
> > operating system thaqt Intel machines use is VERY flawed.
Isn't it true that in Windows 3.x every time you quit an application a
certain amount of memory isn't released? When I used Windows, I would
rarely have more than one application open at a time because of the
performance and stabillity problems. I found myself actually prefering
DOS.
> > MacOS 8.0 on it's way, you should see a much more stable and flexible
> > environment for your Macintosh.
>
I know it's not intended, but your statement suggests that the existing
Mac OS is something less than stable. If you don't load a zillion
extensions, the Mac is a very stable OS compared to Windows3.x. I have a
quadra 610 w 12mg RAM & RAM Doubler, usually have 6 applications open at
once, and my Mac never crashes.
I also use my Mac as a web server w/ MacHTTP to test web->FoxPro apps I
develop. Using Netscape, I make a connection to my own machine. MacHTTP
responds and sends an AppleEvent to my CGI which calls FoxPro into duty.
Then it's CGI-> MacHTTP- > Netscape. Dont even attempt this on a Windows
machine.
>
>
> I agree 100%. Has anyone read the Gartner Group report which
> states that there is no cost penalty for companies supporting
> Mac and Windows machines? Macs tend to be cheaper.
-Andrew
Warner Group
awa...@cais.com
Kevin Hayes
>writes:
>>The PC enjoys a rich relational database environment for client server or
>>datafile type architechtures. Orace (powerbuilder), Delphi, Visual
>>FoxPro, Access, Visual Dbase, and hundreds I haven't mentioned. Many of
>>these companies are stable enough to justify a big investment in software
>>development
>
If you make a big investment in database software development, you don't buy
every database development system that is available. You pick one that meets
your needs and stick with it.
To me, it would make more sense to choose a DBMS that is available on BOTH
platforms if you work in a cross-platform company. If not, choose one that
runs on the platform which you run.
If you are unsure, (i.e. may be switching to Macs in the future, or buying
some to add to a PC network). Stick with something cross platform - Oracle,
FoxPro, FileMaker.
There are many more I don't know about. There are a lot of database solutions
on the Mac platform, it's just that many don't bother looking (hence the
"Macs don't have much software" myth). The Mac Product Registry (about $15 at
any newstand, magazine shop) is a good place to start.
Cheers,
Kevin.
STIMPSONCO
> rrec...@aol.com >writes: >>The PC enjoys a rich relational database
> (powerbuilder), Delphi, Visual >>FoxPro, Access, Visual Dbase, and
> hundreds I haven't mentioned. Many of >>these companies are stable
> enough to justify a big investment in software >>development >
>
> If you make a big investment in database software development, you don't
> buy every database development system that is available. You pick one
> that meets your needs and stick with it.
>
> To me, it would make more sense to choose a DBMS that is available on
> BOTH platforms if you work in a cross-platform company. If not, choose
> one that runs on the platform which you run.
>
> If you are unsure, (i.e. may be switching to Macs in the future, or
> buying some to add to a PC network). Stick with something cross
> platform - Oracle, FoxPro, FileMaker.
>
> There are many more I don't know about. There are a lot of database
> solutions on the Mac platform, it's just that many don't bother looking
> (hence the "Macs don't have much software" myth). The Mac Product
> Registry (about $15 at any newstand, magazine shop) is a good place to
> start.
>
> Cheers, Kevin.
Let's not forget that 4D is now cross-platform.
Regards,
Cory
Systems Analyst
stimp...@aol.com
Mark Mitchenall
> are no better, and in many cases quite a bit worse. The underlying
> MacOS 8.0 on it's way, you should see a much more stable and flexible
> environment for your Macintosh.
Mike Cohen
ha...@ug.cs.dal.ca (Kevin Hayes) wrote:
>If you are unsure, (i.e. may be switching to Macs in the future, or buying
>some to add to a PC network). Stick with something cross platform - Oracle,
>FoxPro, FileMaker.
Or 4th DIMENSION. The Windows version is now available and I think they've
just released the client & server for Windows. You can mix & match Mac or
Windows clients with a server running on either platform.
--
Mike Cohen - is...@netcom.com
Home page: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/is/isis/home.html
Sound is the same for all the world - Youssou N'dour, "Eyes Open"