Newsreaders

[Michelle Steiner]

So what is the consensus for a newsreader to replace MTNW on Mavericks?
Thoth, Unison, Hogwasher, something else?

I'm trying Unison, and I'm not all that happy with it, but I guess that
I could learn to live with it. I've downloaded Thoth, but haven't
tried it yet; is it worth giving it a try?

-- Michelle

--
I'm a year older than I was exactly one year ago.

[Lloyd]

In article <l4jfnl$995$1...@dont-email.me>, Michelle Steiner

<email@michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> So what is the consensus for a newsreader to replace MTNW on Mavericks?
> Thoth, Unison, Hogwasher, something else?
>
> I'm trying Unison, and I'm not all that happy with it, but I guess that
> I could learn to live with it. I've downloaded Thoth, but haven't
> tried it yet; is it worth giving it a try?
>
> -- Michelle

If you liked MTNW, you'll like Thoth because they are very similar.
The setup is a bit more convoluted but otherwise it is very much what
you are used to. I just paid for mine.

I did buy Unison, and it is very nice in many respects. I really can't
fault it for text groups, which is all I do. But in the end I'll
probably end up using Thoth.

--
Lloyd

[Davoud]

Michelle Steiner:

> So what is the consensus for a newsreader to replace MTNW on Mavericks?
> Thoth, Unison, Hogwasher, something else?

> I'm trying Unison, and I'm not all that happy with it, but I guess that
> I could learn to live with it. I've downloaded Thoth, but haven't
> tried it yet; is it worth giving it a try?

Thoth is a solid, reliable, plain-vanilla newsreader. It has served me
since, well, since I-don't-know-when. Version 1.9.0.22, which is
somewhere near the latest version, is going strong under Mavericks.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

[Lloyd]

In article <271020131301063819%st...@sky.net>, Davoud <st...@sky.net>
wrote:

> Michelle Steiner:
> > So what is the consensus for a newsreader to replace MTNW on Mavericks?
> > Thoth, Unison, Hogwasher, something else?
>
> > I'm trying Unison, and I'm not all that happy with it, but I guess that
> > I could learn to live with it. I've downloaded Thoth, but haven't
> > tried it yet; is it worth giving it a try?
>
> Thoth is a solid, reliable, plain-vanilla newsreader. It has served me
> since, well, since I-don't-know-when. Version 1.9.0.22, which is
> somewhere near the latest version, is going strong under Mavericks.

That is the current version, or at least the current released, non-beta
version.

Got it yesterday in 'trial' version, went through the god-awful
configuration and in the end it works wonderfully, just as it always
did.

So since I like to encourage software developers, I bought it just as I
did with Unison the day before yesterday.

Thoth is very MTNW like in many respects.

Unison is a slicker interface, more in line with other OSX apps.

Both are excellent!

--
Lloyd

[Lloyd E Parsons]

Let me go on a bit.

Thoth, just like MTNW, breaks long links on other readers. Not a
problem if you are only in Mac newsgroups, but for others it is an
issue. Even Unison doesn't do that, but Unison definitely will see the
link as broken.

--
Lloyd

[Jolly Roger]

On 2013-10-27, Michelle Steiner <email@michelle> wrote:
> So what is the consensus for a newsreader to replace MTNW on Mavericks?
> Thoth, Unison, Hogwasher, something else?
>
> I'm trying Unison, and I'm not all that happy with it, but I guess that
> I could learn to live with it. I've downloaded Thoth, but haven't
> tried it yet; is it worth giving it a try?

I felt like Unison was lacking as well. Lots of folks here like MacSOUP.
Wasn't Thoth created with stolen code, or something to that effect?
There's no way in hell you could convince me to switch to a Windows news
client.

I'm loving slrn with vim as a replacement, so far. I'm very much a power
user though, and am very comfortable using command-line tools. But if
power features are what you appreciate, slrn is definitely worth a look,
IMO.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[Lloyd E Parsons]

On 2013-10-27 19:58:35 +0000, Sn!pe said:

> Lloyd E Parsons <lloy...@live.com> wrote:
>
> [...]

>
>> Thoth, just like MTNW, breaks long links on other readers. Not a
>> problem if you are only in Mac newsgroups, but for others it is an
>> issue. Even Unison doesn't do that, but Unison definitely will see the
>> link as broken.
>

> MacSOUP no longer breaks URLs in the latest version 2.8.4* and
> works well on Maverick. It is still actively maintained by the
> author, Stefan Haller.
>
>
> * the recent update

Good to know.

How does it handle the broken links from Thoth/MTNW? Unison seems to
handle them though it does show them as broken.

--
Lloyd

[Jamie Kahn Genet]

Michelle Steiner <email@michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> So what is the consensus for a newsreader to replace MTNW on Mavericks?
> Thoth, Unison, Hogwasher, something else?
>
> I'm trying Unison, and I'm not all that happy with it, but I guess that
> I could learn to live with it. I've downloaded Thoth, but haven't
> tried it yet; is it worth giving it a try?
>
> -- Michelle

Well I'd avoid Hogwasher to begin with - it's essentially unsupported,
unfixed for years. It was buggy back in the 90's, and is even more buggy
today. Yet the dev still charges for it.

I've never been a fan of Thoth, but that's more about the dev's temper
tantrums and off and on again support. Still, of the three you mention
I'd pick Thoth.

But I still prefer MacSOUP, and would chose tin over all of them on OS X
10.9, if MacSOUP didn't exist. Or maybe one of the GUI X-Windows
clients.

MT-NW was only ever my backup to MacSOUP, for those rare occasions I
need to browse groups I'm not subbed to in MacSOUP, or binaries which
MacSOUP doesn't handle well (you can save the articles as text files and
drag onto a decoder app, but it's painful). Otherwise MacSOUP all the
way! :-)
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

[dorayme]

In article <l4jrle$nm4$1...@dont-email.me>,

Broken links are not the biggest problem for most of us surely, or at
least, they are easy to fix with a bit of cut and paste and
backspacing and maybe a snip here and there. It is interesting to hear
what programs folk are using to replace MTNW.

--
dorayme

[M-M]

Thoth is almost exactly like MT. Give it a try.
m-m

In article <l4jfnl$995$1...@dont-email.me>, Michelle Steiner
<email@michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

[Tim Streater]

In article <271020131924437074%nospa...@ny.more>, M-M

<nospa...@ny.more> wrote:

> Thoth is almost exactly like MT. Give it a try.
> m-m

Just trying the Thoth trial. I can't find a setting to tell Thoth to
download new postings from the server every x minutes. Where do I set
that? I think I found everything else I need, but only time will tell.

Not impressed by the text-only doccy. Why didn't he do it properly (in,
say, Pages) and issue a PDF?

But I think I prefer it over Unison, which tries to be too clever with
its interface.

[M-M]

In article <271020132342542235%timst...@greenbee.net>, Tim Streater

<timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:

> Just trying the Thoth trial. I can't find a setting to tell Thoth to
> download new postings from the server every x minutes. Where do I set
> that? I think I found everything else I need, but only time will tell.

Like MT-NW, cmd-Y will fetch new articles from your group list.

m-m

[Lloyd E Parsons]

I know I saw that when I was setting things up, but now I cannot find
the auto download of postings. I know it has to be there.

One thing I've not found in Thoth is how to make the cursor
automagically go to the end of a posting when I reply. Anyone??
--
Lloyd

[Ted Lee]

On 10/27/13, 11:41 AM, Michelle Steiner wrote:
> So what is the consensus for a newsreader to replace MTNW on Mavericks?
> Thoth, Unison, Hogwasher, something else?

I use Thunderbird's newsreading capabilities. I used to use MTNW on my
PowerBook and don't remember now why I couldn't continue to use it when
got the MacBook Pro -- oh, I know. I couldn't keep using Eudora for
mail so just went with what came with Thunderbird. And I'm using
Thunderbird because I had a whole bunch of Windows mail from a variety
of mail systems that I wanted to keep. I could convert all of them to
Thunderbird on the PC, as well as the Eudora mail. I'm not sure there
was any easy way (when I needed to do it) to convert the various Windows
mail formats to Eudora.

Anyway, I'm OK with Thunderbird for newsgroups although I haven't found
any way to keep track of a message now and then that I wanted to go back
to, although I haven't played with *all* the ways of marking or tagging
messages.

Ted

[Lloyd E Parsons]

On 2013-10-28 01:26:02 +0000, Lewis said:

> In message <271020132342542235%timst...@greenbee.net>

> Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
>> Not impressed by the text-only doccy. Why didn't he do it properly (in,
>> say, Pages) and issue a PDF?
>

> Because he wasn't able to find someone else who'd already done it that
> he could steal from.

Enough of that crap! We went through this whole thing years ago.
--
Lloyd

[gtr]

On 2013-10-27 16:41:25 +0000, Michelle Steiner said:

> I'm trying Unison, and I'm not all that happy with it, but I guess that
> I could learn to live with it. I've downloaded Thoth, but haven't
> tried it yet; is it worth giving it a try?

If you think "learning to live with it" is a possibility with Unison it
better be assured with Thoth. I used Thoth for many years, and keep it
up to date as I still use if for some things. But I acclimated to
Unison and it's so easy (despite some limitations) that I am now quite
comfortable.

[Lloyd E Parsons]

On 2013-10-28 02:11:25 +0000, Lewis said:

> In message <l4kgnt$g8l$1...@dont-email.me>

> Lloyd E Parsons <lloy...@live.com> wrote:

> I don't understand you're point. Does it stop being relevant that he
> stole code and has spend 15 years lying about it?

The point was made years ago and caused lots of vitriol right here. Do
we need another chance for you and others on your side of that fence to
take all the shots again?

I don't think so.

>
> He's also a slimy sniveling asshole, but that's an entirely different
> issue.

True, it is a different issue. But then who actually gives a damn
about the personality or lack of, of the developer?

--
Lloyd

[Jamie Kahn Genet]

Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <l4kk25$uj3$1...@dont-email.me>

> When the personality disorder determines the pace of upgrades and the
> support one might get, it matters quite a lot.
>
> When the developer spends many years whining and then failing to
> deliver promised updates, it matters quite a lot.
>
> The fact of the matter is that I've never used Thoth, but I am well
> aware of it, and of Brian and of the constant stream of shit that has
> issued from him over the last about 15 years. Because of this, when
> uniformed people mention they are planning on using Thoth (or worse,
> pay for it) I am quick to dissuade them as much as I possibly can.

Brian is a flake, that much is for sure. I don't like paying for
shareware that might suddenly end up unsupported because the dev has a
tantrum. Regardless Thoth isn't a bad client - in fact it's quite a good
one, and in the final analysis has easily been worth the price for
anyone who paid. It just comes from a bad developer who does himself no
favours.

[Wes Groleau]

On 10-27-2013, 12:41, Michelle Steiner wrote:
> So what is the consensus for a newsreader to replace MTNW on Mavericks?
> Thoth, Unison, Hogwasher, something else?

There will never be a consensus on that one.

I still like Thunderbird. Tried every other free one I've heard of, and
Thunderbird is the best FOR ME.


--
Wes Groleau

There ain't no right wing,
there ain't no left wing.
There's only you and me and we just disagree.
(apologies to Jim Krueger)

[J.P. Kuypers]

In article (Dans l'article) <l4jq9f$el1$1...@dont-email.me>, Lloyd E
Parsons <lloy...@live.com> wrote (�crivait)�:

> Thoth, just like MTNW, breaks long links on other readers.

1)
When composing a new message, you can do:

a) Leave the default Wrap Message setting in Thoth to on/enabled, as
that's what you usually want.
b) When you are creating a message with a long URL that you want to be
sent unwrapped, first do all your editing, etc. as normal with Wrap
Message on. Then you can easily read what you're writing.
c) Once you're ready to send, set Wrap Message OFF for that message
(click in the Edit Settings icon in the toolbar and uncheck "wrap
Message."
d) Now manually select each paragraph in the email that does not
contain the URL, that you want to be wrapped, and use Edit->Wrap to
wrap them.

2)
When replying, even with wrapping enabled, Thoth isn't supposed to wrap
quoted text. So if the URL you type is quoted in the usual way, with
the leading ">' or "> " quoted message string:

--
Jean-Pierre Kuypers

[Lloyd]

In article <271020132009474840%nospa...@ny.more>, M-M

I asked Brian about that very thing. He said timed gathering of new
posts has never been in Thoth though MTNW did offer it. From his
answer, it doesn't appear that it ever will.

Also asked him about making Thoth position the cursor on replies to the
end of the original post, again it isn't there and won't be. His
position is that posts should be trimmed and responded to inline with
the various comments in the original posting. Personally I don't agree
with that as default, but that's the way it is.

--
Lloyd

[Lloyd]

In article <slrnl6rn53....@mbp55.local>, Lewis

<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <l4kk25$uj3$1...@dont-email.me>

> When the personality disorder determines the pace of upgrades and the
> support one might get, it matters quite a lot.
>

But going way back, I never had an issue with Brian's handling of
support. I got Thoth when I got the original OSX I think, or
thereabouts anyway. When I asked questions about it, I always got
quick responses.

And just this morning I had a couple questions and got a response
within minutes.

I'd say his support is fine.

> When the developer spends many years whining and then failing to
> deliver promised updates, it matters quite a lot.
>

Yeah, I remember that. Didn't like it then, but sure did like when he
finally did redo it.

> The fact of the matter is that I've never used Thoth, but I am well
> aware of it, and of Brian and of the constant stream of shit that has
> issued from him over the last about 15 years. Because of this, when
> uniformed people mention they are planning on using Thoth (or worse,
> pay for it) I am quick to dissuade them as much as I possibly can.

Since you've never used it, nor asked him for support, you are basing
your opinion on things read on the internet concerning it. And of
course we all know 'if you read it on the internet, it is true'. :)

The relevant fact is that Brian for all his faults and foibles, has
produced a superb usenet client for OSX.

--
Lloyd

[Lloyd]

In article <1lbgo7j.5ek8cfhnma19N%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>, Jamie

And I would fully agree with that assessment! It is a great usenet
client produced by a guy that has managed to piss off a lot of people
along the way!

--
Lloyd

[J.P. Kuypers]

In article (Dans l'article) <281020130816560304%lloy...@live.com>,
Lloyd <lloy...@live.com> wrote (�crivait)�:

> But going way back, I never had an issue with Brian's handling of
> support. I got Thoth when I got the original OSX I think, or
> thereabouts anyway. When I asked questions about it, I always got
> quick responses.

Me 2!

--
Jean-Pierre Kuypers

[Lloyd]

Unison is quite simple to use and easy to learn. It has its quirks for
sure, but it is quite good.

Thoth is simpler to use for those coming from MTNW because of the
similarities. It is quite powerful and configurable.

I'm switching back and forth with Thoth and Unison as I try to figure
out which will be the best for my use. At this point, both are equal
for what I do.

--
Lloyd

[Lloyd]

In article <slrnl6sq7k....@mbp55.local>, Lewis
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <281020130816560304%lloy...@live.com>

> The 2.0 version that's been on the mythical "coming soon" drawing table
> has been there for close to a decade (2005, IIRC).
>
So what?

At this point in time, Thoth is one of the very best usenet clients out
there. Would I like to see a V2.0? Sure, but as long as this version
works extremely well and is very powerful, I'll manage.

--
Lloyd

[Lloyd E Parsons]

On 2013-10-28 13:54:09 +0000, Tim Streater said:

> In article <281020130811320868%lloy...@live.com>, Lloyd

> <lloy...@live.com> wrote:
>
>> I asked Brian about that very thing. He said timed gathering of new
>> posts has never been in Thoth though MTNW did offer it. From his
>> answer, it doesn't appear that it ever will.
>

> Righto, thanks. Pity, but there it is. And anyway Thoth does some
> things better than MT-NW.

Very true. I remember back in the day, that I was looking for a good
usenet client. Looked at MTNW and Thoth among many, decided Thoth was
better even though not free.

Somewhere in OSX upgrades, the version of Thoth I had wouldn't work and
I was a little irritated for whatever reason at the time, and switched
to MTNW.

>
>> Also asked him about making Thoth position the cursor on replies to the
>> end of the original post, again it isn't there and won't be. His
>> position is that posts should be trimmed and responded to inline with
>> the various comments in the original posting. Personally I don't agree
>> with that as default, but that's the way it is.
>

> Well it'd be nice to have it as an option. Personally I also think
> stuff should be trimmed to what people are replying to. Nothing more
> irritating than to have a long post with a single one-liner at the end.

I agree, it would be a nice option to have. With small messages, I
generally just post at the bottom and that seems the majority. For
larger ones, I usually (but not always) snip and reply inline.

--
Lloyd

[AV3]

On Oct/27/2013 9:3009 PM, Ted Lee wrote:
> On 10/27/13, 11:41 AM, Michelle Steiner wrote:
>> So what is the consensus for a newsreader to replace MTNW on Mavericks?
>> Thoth, Unison, Hogwasher, something else?
>

> ...

>
> Anyway, I'm OK with Thunderbird for newsgroups although I haven't found
> any way to keep track of a message now and then that I wanted to go back
> to, although I haven't played with *all* the ways of marking or tagging
> messages.
>

I mark messages I want to go back to with a star. When I want to go back
to a starred message, I choose classification by the star column and
find the desired message among the relatively few in that column. Then I
restore classification by my default date column.


--
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., <arvi...@Wearthlink.net> ||
||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., <arvi...@Wearthlink.net> ||
||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/ ||
|| Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso ||
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++

[Erilar]

Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:
> On 10-27-2013, 12:41, Michelle Steiner wrote:
>> So what is the consensus for a newsreader to replace MTNW on Mavericks?
>> Thoth, Unison, Hogwasher, something else?
>
> There will never be a consensus on that one.
>
> I still like Thunderbird. Tried every other free one I've heard of, and
> Thunderbird is the best FOR ME.
>

That's the real bottom line for everyone 8-)

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist with iPad

[Erilar]

Michelle Steiner <email@michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> So what is the consensus for a newsreader to replace MTNW on Mavericks?
> Thoth, Unison, Hogwasher, something else?
>

> I'm trying Unison, and I'm not all that happy with it, but I guess that I
> could learn to live with it. I've downloaded Thoth, but haven't tried it
> yet; is it worth giving it a try?
>

> -- Michelle

Is Mavericks a new OS? Did they run out of cats? Next will be Longhorn?
It doesn't run MTNW?

[Sandman]

In article <l4lv4b$kjm$2...@dont-email.me>, Erilar <dra...@chibardun.netinvalid> wrote:

> > So what is the consensus for a newsreader to replace MTNW on Mavericks?
> > Thoth, Unison, Hogwasher, something else?
> >
> > I'm trying Unison, and I'm not all that happy with it, but I guess that I
> > could learn to live with it. I've downloaded Thoth, but haven't tried it
> > yet; is it worth giving it a try?
>

> Is Mavericks a new OS?

New version of OSX.

> Did they run out of cats?

Pretty much.

> Next will be Longhorn?

Hardly.

> It doesn't run MTNW?

Nope, they removed OpenTransport, which is needed by MTNW.



--
Sandman[.net]

[Michelle Steiner]

On 2013-10-28 15:16:28 +0000, Erilar said:

> Is Mavericks a new OS?

Yes. It's OS X 10.9

> Did they run out of cats?

Apparently so, according to what they said at the WWDC in June.

> Next will be Longhorn?

I think that MS has the rights to that. Apple is now using "inspiring
locations in California" for OS X names.

> It doesn't run MTNW?

Correct. MTNW requires Open Transport, which was deprecated in 10.4 or
10.5, and removed in 10.9.

-- Michelle

--
I'm a year older than I was exactly one year ago.

[Savageduck]

On 2013-10-28 15:31:14 +0000, Michelle Steiner

<email@michelle@michelle.org> said:

> On 2013-10-28 15:16:28 +0000, Erilar said:
>
>> Is Mavericks a new OS?
>
> Yes. It's OS X 10.9
>
>> Did they run out of cats?
>
> Apparently so, according to what they said at the WWDC in June.

I guess they missed "Civet". ;-)

>> Next will be Longhorn?
>
> I think that MS has the rights to that. Apple is now using "inspiring
> locations in California" for OS X names.

I think surf breaks might be the call here, so perhaps, "Trestles",
"Hazards Canyon", "Rincon", etc., but the Califoria locations also make
sense/ Consider "El Capitan". "Tenaya", etc. ;-)

>> It doesn't run MTNW?
>
> Correct. MTNW requires Open Transport, which was deprecated in 10.4 or
> 10.5, and removed in 10.9.
>
> -- Michelle


--

Regards,

Savageduck

[Jamie Kahn Genet]

Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

> I guess they missed "Civet". ;-)

I always wanted OS X Housecat, myself.

[Your Name]

In article <l4lqmt$nmb$1...@dont-email.me>, Lloyd E Parsons

In Thoth you can select a piece of text and then use the reply function
and your new message only quotes the selected text.

[Your Name]

In article <2013102808574249220-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,

Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

> On 2013-10-28 15:31:14 +0000, Michelle Steiner
> <email@michelle@michelle.org> said:
> > On 2013-10-28 15:16:28 +0000, Erilar said:
> >
> >> Is Mavericks a new OS?
> >
> > Yes. It's OS X 10.9
> >
> >> Did they run out of cats?
> >
> > Apparently so, according to what they said at the WWDC in June.
>
> I guess they missed "Civet". ;-)

Or Ocelot, or Tabby, or Persian, or Manx (this one could have gone well
with the release of the wireless mouse and keyboard), or ... ;-)

There are 37 species of cats in this list (including "Domesticated
Cat", which in itself would have lots of breeds).
http://www.wildcatsanctuary.org/education/species/

BUT, I'm not sure how trustworthy that list is. For a start it is
missing Panther and has Puma listed as a "Small Cat". :-\

[Erilar]

Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

>
> In Thoth you can select a piece of text and then use the reply function
> and your new message only quotes the selected text.

In other words, like any decent e-mail program?

[Sandman]

In article <2013102808574249220-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

> >> Is Mavericks a new OS?
> >
> > Yes. It's OS X 10.9
> >
> >> Did they run out of cats?
> >
> > Apparently so, according to what they said at the WWDC in June.
>
> I guess they missed "Civet". ;-)

And Lynx or Ocelot :)


--
Sandman[.net]

[Your Name]

In article <slrnl6tl...@irc.sandman.net>, Sandman

One of the big(ish) rumours at the beginning of the year was that Mac
OS X 10.9 would be called Lynx. :-)

Apple simply ran out of big cat names. Coming down from Lion (or
Mountain Lion) to Lynx might have been considered to be sending the
wrong "message" about it being less powerful or some such marketing /
pshco-babble nonsense.

They should just get rid of the silly names completely. It's much
easier to know that "Mac OS X 10.9" is newer than "Mac OS X 10.6",
rather than trying to figure out where in the timeline the different
silly codenames fit.

[Your Name]

In article <slrnl6ugfn....@ID-685.user.individual.de>, Martin
��rautmann <t-us...@gmx.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 01:43:48 +0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:
> > In message <291020131329139978%Your...@YourISP.com>

> > Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > They should just get rid of the silly names completely. It's much
> > > easier to know that "Mac OS X 10.9" is newer than "Mac OS X 10.6",
> > > rather than trying to figure out where in the timeline the different
> > > silly codenames fit.
> >

> > The codenames are the names most people know. They are much easier for
> > people to keep track of than a number.
>
> I can't. Maybe I'm more the numbers guy, remembering that I jumped from
> 6.0.8 via 7.0.1 til 7.6.1 to 10.3, upgrading until 10.6.8 and now maybe
> waiting for 10.9.1 to jump in again.
>
> Tell me, which one was Capone?

Exactly. Most normal people use numbers to indicate a series, not
random silly names.

If someone says they're using Leopard and someone else says they're
using Mountina Lion, only the geeky folls who have memorised all the
code names know which is the newer / better. If someone says they're
suing 10.6 and someone else says they 10.8, then it's immediately
obvious.

Of course, the problem with Apple's 10.Y numbering system is what is
going to come next? 10.10? It would work for humans, but it's going to
screw up many computer sorting systems.

They should have simply done the obvious and called it Mac OS X 1, Mac
OS X 2, Mac OS X 3, etc.

[nospam]

In article <291020131825107266%Your...@YourISP.com>, Your Name

<Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

> Of course, the problem with Apple's 10.Y numbering system is what is
> going to come next? 10.10? It would work for humans, but it's going to
> screw up many computer sorting systems.

10.4.10 and 10.4.11 took care of that issue.

[Your Name]

In article <slrnl6uich....@ID-685.user.individual.de>, Martin
��rautmann <t-us...@gmx.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 18:25:10 +1300, Your Name wrote:
> > Of course, the problem with Apple's 10.Y numbering system is what is
> > going to come next? 10.10? It would work for humans, but it's going to
> > screw up many computer sorting systems.
> >
> > They should have simply done the obvious and called it Mac OS X 1, Mac
> > OS X 2, Mac OS X 3, etc.
>

> Sorry, I don't get that. Why would Mac OS X 10 vs. Mac OS X 1 sort any
> better than MacOS 10.1 vs MacOS 10.10?
<snip>

Sorry, I didn't mean it would sort any better (which is why it's a
separate paragraph), just that there's a superfluous extra "10" in
there all the time - despite it meant ot be pronounced as "Ex".

Not having it would simply make the name less cumbersome ... unless
Apple is planning NOT to have "Mac OS X 10.10" and instead move to "Mac
OS Y 1.0" or "Mac OS XI 1.0". ;-)

[nospam]

In article <slrnl6uonh....@ID-685.user.individual.de>, Martin
?rautmann <t-us...@gmx.net> wrote:

> Don't know what they are up to, but they might use hex as well:
> MacOS 10.6
> MacOS 10.9
> MacOS 10.A
> MacOS 10.F

nothing like confusing everyone but geeks, and what do you do after
10.f?

[J.P. Kuypers]

In article (Dans l'article) <l4jfnl$995$1...@dont-email.me>, Michelle
Steiner <email@michelle@michelle.org> wrote (écrivait) :

> So what is the consensus for a newsreader to replace MTNW on Mavericks?
> Thoth, Unison, Hogwasher, something else?

MacSOUP ?

Some French speaking Useneters swear by it.

--
Jean-Pierre Kuypers

[Lloyd]

In article <291020131010406196%Jean-Pier...@adresse.invalid>,

There's no accounting for taste is there? :)

--
Lloyd

[Erilar]

Matbe G?

[Erilar]

Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <291020131329139978%Your...@YourISP.com>
> Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

>> They should just get rid of the silly names completely. It's much
>> easier to know that "Mac OS X 10.9" is newer than "Mac OS X 10.6",
>> rather than trying to figure out where in the timeline the different
>> silly codenames fit.
>

> The codenames are the names most people know. They are much easier for
> people to keep track of than a number.

I question "most". I think it's just a marketing ploy.

[Erilar]

That would be much more logical. It took me a while to figure out why
people were talking about stray cattle here.

[Your Name]

In article <slrnl6uonh....@ID-685.user.individual.de>, Martin

息rautmann <t-us...@gmx.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 19:25:09 +1300, Your Name wrote:
> > Sorry, I didn't mean it would sort any better (which is why it's a
> > separate paragraph), just that there's a superfluous extra "10" in
> > there all the time - despite it meant ot be pronounced as "Ex".
>

> Ah, so you may call it MacOSX for the whole family, but should use
> MacOS 10.6, MacOS 10.7, MacOS 10.10,
> but not MacOSX 6, MacOSX 10, ...

The whole family would simply be Mac OS 10, since the different
versions have the suffix numbers (10.1, 10.4, etc.).

> > Apple is planning NOT to have "Mac OS X 10.10" and instead move to "Mac
> > OS Y 1.0" or "Mac OS XI 1.0". ;-)
>

> Don't know what they are up to, but they might use hex as well:
> MacOS 10.6
> MacOS 10.9
> MacOS 10.A
> MacOS 10.F

That only gives them a few more years though. Maybe they should just
continue the alphabet up to Mac OS 10.Z to give themselves more time to
come up with Mac OS 11. ;-)

[Your Name]

In article <l4opl8$ltb$5...@dont-email.me>, Erilar

At least we can be thankful that Apple is (so far) fairly consistent.
Unlike Windows where they can't decide whether to use numbers (3.1, 8),
years (95, 2000), or names (XP, Vista). :-)

[Jamie Kahn Genet]

Erilar <dra...@chibardun.netinvalid> wrote:

> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > In article <slrnl6uonh....@ID-685.user.individual.de>, Martin
> > ?rautmann <t-us...@gmx.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Don't know what they are up to, but they might use hex as well:
> >> MacOS 10.6
> >> MacOS 10.9
> >> MacOS 10.A
> >> MacOS 10.F
> >
> > nothing like confusing everyone but geeks, and what do you do after
> > 10.f?
> Matbe G?

That wouldn't be hex.

[Jamie Kahn Genet]

Lloyd <lloy...@live.com> wrote:

> In article <291020131010406196%Jean-Pier...@adresse.invalid>,
> J.P. Kuypers <Jean-Pier...@adresse.invalid> wrote:
>
> > In article (Dans l'article) <l4jfnl$995$1...@dont-email.me>, Michelle

> > Steiner <email@michelle@michelle.org> wrote (�crivait) :

> >
> > > So what is the consensus for a newsreader to replace MTNW on Mavericks?
> > > Thoth, Unison, Hogwasher, something else?
> >
> > MacSOUP ?
> >
> > Some French speaking Useneters swear by it.
>
> There's no accounting for taste is there? :)

I shun you sir! :-p

Regards,
Jamie Kahn Genet

[bill van]

In article <slrnl70agp....@jaka.local>,
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <291020131825107266%Your...@YourISP.com>

> Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:
> > In article <slrnl6ugfn....@ID-685.user.individual.de>, Martin
> >rautmann <t-us...@gmx.net> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 01:43:48 +0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:
> >> > In message <291020131329139978%Your...@YourISP.com>
> >> > Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > They should just get rid of the silly names completely. It's much
> >> > > easier to know that "Mac OS X 10.9" is newer than "Mac OS X 10.6",
> >> > > rather than trying to figure out where in the timeline the different
> >> > > silly codenames fit.
> >> >
> >> > The codenames are the names most people know. They are much easier for
> >> > people to keep track of than a number.
> >>
> >> I can't. Maybe I'm more the numbers guy, remembering that I jumped from
> >> 6.0.8 via 7.0.1 til 7.6.1 to 10.3, upgrading until 10.6.8 and now maybe
> >> waiting for 10.9.1 to jump in again.
> >>
> >> Tell me, which one was Capone?
>
> > Exactly. Most normal people use numbers to indicate a series, not
> > random silly names.
>

> First, if you ask regular people what OS version they have they are FAR
> more likely to tell you the name than the number. If you press for the
> number, chances are very good they have no idea. Second, this is even
> true for some abnormal people.

I must be abnormally abnormal. Within a few months of installing each
big cat OS I've forgotten which cat it was. But 10.6.8, which I've been
running for a couple of years, is top of mind and tip of tongue for me;
I don't have to think about it.

My wife, whose iMac runs the same OS, remembered Snow Leopard and 10.6,
but not the .8 part.

I have a feeling that it's a very individual thing and that we tend to
assume that the way we remember it ourselves is the normal way.

bill

[Jamie Kahn Genet]

I know I usually think of the version number first, then try to remember
the big cat name if that doesn't register for the person I'm talking to.
Version numbers after all give useful information - the version, where
in the sequence it fell, etc. Big cat names tell you very nothing unless
you already remember all the rest. Big cat names or place names are
cute. But not useful for anything but marketing. Version numbers are
real useful information.

I've been in many a discussion where big cat names are used and there is
confusion as to where in the sequence each lies (most often with
non-geeks). No such trouble with version numbers. Version numbers are
logical, but unattractive marketing-wise.

That's my experience and personal take on the matter.

[bill van]

In article <1lbk2pn.1qawsvr1aflc0vN%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> bill van <bil...@delete.shaw.ca> wrote:

> > I must be abnormally abnormal. Within a few months of installing each
> > big cat OS I've forgotten which cat it was. But 10.6.8, which I've been
> > running for a couple of years, is top of mind and tip of tongue for me;
> > I don't have to think about it.
> >
> > My wife, whose iMac runs the same OS, remembered Snow Leopard and 10.6,
> > but not the .8 part.
> >
> > I have a feeling that it's a very individual thing and that we tend to
> > assume that the way we remember it ourselves is the normal way.
>

> I know I usually think of the version number first, then try to remember
> the big cat name if that doesn't register for the person I'm talking to.
> Version numbers after all give useful information - the version, where
> in the sequence it fell, etc. Big cat names tell you very nothing unless
> you already remember all the rest. Big cat names or place names are
> cute. But not useful for anything but marketing. Version numbers are
> real useful information.
>
> I've been in many a discussion where big cat names are used and there is
> confusion as to where in the sequence each lies (most often with
> non-geeks). No such trouble with version numbers. Version numbers are
> logical, but unattractive marketing-wise.
>
> That's my experience and personal take on the matter.

That seems sensible to me. The number, e.g. 10.6.8, puts the OS version
in the context of preceding and succeeding versions. There is no such
logic or connection with the names.

Mavericks as an OS version name is kind of a shrug for me. It means
something to California and to surfing communities, I guess, but it has
no context for anyone else. It looks a bit dead-endish from here. I'll
stick with the numbers.

bill

[Your Name]

In article <billvan-57FF32...@news.shawcable.net>, bill van

Don't worry. Lewis is a dimbulb geek who thinks absolutely everyone
else does what he and his five geeky friends do (which is why the
numbnut is in my killfile). :-\

The fact is that in the real world very few people know what the
codename of the Mac OS is, and most people don't even know (nor care)
what OS they're using at all ... some Mac users even think they're
using Windows.

[Jamie Kahn Genet]

I guess Leopard and Snow Leopard gave a clue, but other than that - nup.
Even I sometimes forgot and still forget 10.4 is Tiger and 10.3 was
Panther. Don't even bother quizzing me on the big cat names before the
code names because official marketing names, heh :-)

[Erilar]

Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <1lbk2pn.1qawsvr1aflc0vN%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>

> Right. Just like I said, normal people remember the NAME, not the
> number.
>

Oh, goody! More proof I'm not normal! It's so boring.

[Erilar]

Jamie Kahn Genet <jam...@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:

> Erilar <dra...@chibardun.netinvalid> wrote:
>
>> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>> In article <slrnl6uonh....@ID-685.user.individual.de>, Martin
>>> ?rautmann <t-us...@gmx.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don't know what they are up to, but they might use hex as well:
>>>> MacOS 10.6
>>>> MacOS 10.9
>>>> MacOS 10.A
>>>> MacOS 10.F
>>>
>>> nothing like confusing everyone but geeks, and what do you do after
>>> 10.f?
>> Matbe G?
>
> That wouldn't be hex.

I see I came up with an interesting new word. I wonder what it might be
used for? 8-)

[Erilar]

I think you're right. I've never been sure which cat name I'm actually
using.

[Jamie Kahn Genet]

Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <1lbk2pn.1qawsvr1aflc0vN%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>

> Jamie Kahn Genet <jam...@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:

> Right. Just like I said, normal people remember the NAME, not the
> number.

And suffer confusion as a result :-)

[Your Name]

In article <l4r5mr$7m0$3...@dont-email.me>, Erilar

Nope, you're "normal" ... or at least as "normal" as the vast majority
of people living in the real world. :-)

Lewis is simply a moron living in fantasy geekworld - just ignore him.

[D.F. Manno]

In article <2013102808574249220-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

> Michelle Steiner <email@michelle@michelle.org> said:

> > On 2013-10-28 15:16:28 +0000, Erilar said:
> >
> >> Is Mavericks a new OS?
> >
> > Yes. It's OS X 10.9
> >
> >> Did they run out of cats?
> >
> > Apparently so, according to what they said at the WWDC in June.
>
> I guess they missed "Civet". ;-)

Or "Cougar." Or "Ocelot."

--
D.F. Manno | dfm...@mail.com
GOP delenda est!

[Your Name]

In article <dfmanno-89641F...@news.albasani.net>, D.F.

Manno <dfm...@mail.com> wrote:

> In article <2013102808574249220-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
> Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>
> > Michelle Steiner <email@michelle@michelle.org> said:
> > > On 2013-10-28 15:16:28 +0000, Erilar said:
> > >
> > >> Is Mavericks a new OS?
> > >
> > > Yes. It's OS X 10.9
> > >
> > >> Did they run out of cats?
> > >
> > > Apparently so, according to what they said at the WWDC in June.
> >
> > I guess they missed "Civet". ;-)
>
> Or "Cougar." Or "Ocelot."

Technically a Cougar and a Mountain Lion are the same animal, so they
could use Cougar for a very minor update to Mountain Lion, but not
really for a full version number update. :-)

[Marc Stibane]

Some german too...
Especially since Stefan changed the keyboard handling last month.
Finally! I begged him for months to do that. MacBook keyboards no longer
sport an enter key, which was very essential for fast reading. Now you
can also use the key above the right shift and left of the return key to
achieve that function.

Go grab the new version 2.8.4 here:
<http://www.haller-berlin.de/macsoup/download.html>


--
In a world without walls and fences,
who needs windows and gates?

[J.P. Kuypers]

In article (Dans l'article)

<271020132342542235%timst...@greenbee.net>, Tim Streater
<timst...@greenbee.net> wrote (�crivait)�:

> Just trying the Thoth trial. I can't find a setting to tell Thoth to
> download new postings from the server every x minutes. Where do I set
> that?

The just released 1.9.1 version as now the option:

Added to the Newsreading topic of Preferences the ability to
automatically check for new articles every n minutes in open subscribed
group list windows.

--
Jean-Pierre Kuypers

[Lloyd]

In article <151120131529290956%Jean-Pier...@adresse.invalid>,

J.P. Kuypers <Jean-Pier...@adresse.invalid> wrote:

> In article (Dans l'article)
> <271020132342542235%timst...@greenbee.net>, Tim Streater

> <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote (écrivait) :

>
> > Just trying the Thoth trial. I can't find a setting to tell Thoth to
> > download new postings from the server every x minutes. Where do I set
> > that?
>
> The just released 1.9.1 version as now the option:
>
> Added to the Newsreading topic of Preferences the ability to
> automatically check for new articles every n minutes in open subscribed
> group list windows.

Yeah, I've had this version for a little while and it all works just
fine.

--
Lloyd

[Tim McNamara]

On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 00:49:03 +0200, Matti Haveri <nos...@here.invalid>
wrote:
> In article <l4jfnl$995$1...@dont-email.me>,

> Michelle Steiner <email@michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>
>> So what is the consensus for a newsreader to replace MTNW on
>> Mavericks?
>

> MT-NewsWatcher 3.5.3.b3 via Mac OS X Server 10.6.8 via VMware Fusion
> 6.0.2 via OS X 10.9.1 :-|

Not the solution for the average user. ;-) I have gone to using slrn
with nano as an editor in Terminal. Not as elegant as MTNW, I grant
you, but it gets the job done. Usenet has declined so much that I can't
justify paying for an NNTP client. The S/N ratio has become truly
atrocious. slrn's scoring weeds almost all of the spam out with a few
elegant rules, though, so I appreciate that.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2014-02-07, Matti Haveri <nos...@here.invalid> wrote:
> In article <l4jfnl$995$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Michelle Steiner <email@michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>
>> So what is the consensus for a newsreader to replace MTNW on Mavericks?
>
> MT-NewsWatcher 3.5.3.b3 via Mac OS X Server 10.6.8 via VMware Fusion
> 6.0.2 via OS X 10.9.1 :-|

I've replaced MTNW with slrn on Mac OS X 10.9.x and am loving it! : )

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[Jolly Roger]

Same here, but with vi, which I'm perfectly comfortable with.

[Király]

In comp.sys.mac.apps Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> Not the solution for the average user. ;-) I have gone to using slrn
> with nano as an editor in Terminal.

...which is even less of a solution for the average user. But that's
this newsgroup and usenet in general these days; not the average users.

I've been running tin with nano in Terminal in my Mac since 2003, and
before then, by telnetting in to my university's server, which I first
started doing as a first year undergrad in September 1993. Yes, I'm one
of that famous cohort of people who first got online in the September
That Never Ended and ruined usenet forever. :)

--
K.

Lang may your lum reek.

[Tim McNamara]

On Sat, 8 Feb 2014 16:12:48 +0000 (UTC), Király <m...@home.spamsucks.ca>
wrote:

Similar history, I started using the Internet around 1993, first through
dial up with DELPHI, IIRC. I was using my Mac 512Ke initially with a
14.4 modem.

I remember buying a book for Mac users about the Internet that came with
a disk with the necessary TCP/IP stuff that Apple didn't include at that
time. Aarrgghh, now I am stuggling to come up with the guy's name:
Adam something? He went on to have a fairly prominent web site about
Macs but I can't remember the name. Pesky aging brain cells.

I recall reading Ed Krol's Whole Internet book and not having a frickin'
clue what he was on about most of the time (never having seen Unix at
that time) and, as I recall, DELPHI did not provide a shell account.
There were some local BBSes that could pass some things through to the
wider Internet. How times have changed.

[nospam]

In article <slrnlfd7u1...@sugaree.local>, Tim McNamara

<tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:

> I remember buying a book for Mac users about the Internet that came with
> a disk with the necessary TCP/IP stuff that Apple didn't include at that
> time. Aarrgghh, now I am stuggling to come up with the guy's name:
> Adam something? He went on to have a fairly prominent web site about
> Macs but I can't remember the name. Pesky aging brain cells.

adam engst.

[Michelle Steiner]

In article <080220142001442327%nos...@nospam.invalid>, nospam

And the website is http://www.tidbits.com

[Tim McNamara]

On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 20:01:44 -0500, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

Yeah, that was it. Thanks!

[Tim McNamara]

Yeah, that was the other piece of the puzzle.

[Tim McNamara]

On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 01:40:23 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <slrnlfd7u1...@sugaree.local>

> Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 8 Feb 2014 16:12:48 +0000 (UTC), Király
>> <m...@home.spamsucks.ca> wrote:
>>> In comp.sys.mac.apps Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>>>> Not the solution for the average user. ;-) I have gone to using
>>>> slrn with nano as an editor in Terminal.
>>>
>>> ...which is even less of a solution for the average user. But that's
>>> this newsgroup and usenet in general these days; not the average
>>> users.
>>>
>>> I've been running tin with nano in Terminal in my Mac since 2003, and
>>> before then, by telnetting in to my university's server, which I first
>>> started doing as a first year undergrad in September 1993. Yes, I'm
>>> one of that famous cohort of people who first got online in the
>>> September That Never Ended and ruined usenet forever. :)
>
>> Similar history, I started using the Internet around 1993, first
>> through dial up with DELPHI, IIRC. I was using my Mac 512Ke
>> initially with a 14.4 modem.
>
>> I remember buying a book for Mac users about the Internet that came
>> with a disk with the necessary TCP/IP stuff that Apple didn't include
>> at that time. Aarrgghh, now I am stuggling to come up with the guy's
>> name: Adam something? He went on to have a fairly prominent web site
>> about Macs but I can't remember the name. Pesky aging brain cells.
>

> Internet Starter Kit by Adam Engst www.TidBITS.com

That's all three of the rascals I was trying to remember, right there.

[android]

On 2014-02-07 23:49, Matti Haveri wrote:
> In article <l4jfnl$995$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Michelle Steiner <email@michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>
>> So what is the consensus for a newsreader to replace MTNW on Mavericks?
>
> MT-NewsWatcher 3.5.3.b3 via Mac OS X Server 10.6.8 via VMware Fusion
> 6.0.2 via OS X 10.9.1 :-|
>

I think that you are a sissy Sir!

True MacGeeks want their Classic apps back and that possible you know!!!
Load thy putter with the classic emulator Sheepshaver and put the
original MT-NW in that!

The quick fix with a GUI is Thunderbird though...

--
teleportation kills

[android]

On 2014-02-07 23:49, Matti Haveri wrote:
> In article <l4jfnl$995$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Michelle Steiner <email@michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>
>> So what is the consensus for a newsreader to replace MTNW on Mavericks?
>
> MT-NewsWatcher 3.5.3.b3 via Mac OS X Server 10.6.8 via VMware Fusion
> 6.0.2 via OS X 10.9.1 :-|
>

I think that you are a sissy, Sir!