How to test Mac ram?

[micky]

OT? Is there a more appropriate, active ng to ask this quesion?

A friend's friend's Mac shows only 2 gig when it has 4 gig.

Is there some software which will say which 2 are not found, or bad,
or whatever. Free if possible. Any other advice is also
appreciated.

[Jolly Roger]

In article <aflsu79sildp58kka...@4ax.com>,

If your friend is running a recent version of Mac OS X, have him take a
look at the Apple menu > About This Mac > More Info > Memory panel:

<http://jollyroger.kicks-ass.org/about_this_mac-memory.png>

Was the memory recently installed, or what? It would help to know more
about his situation.

--
Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me.
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM
filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google
Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.

JR

[micky]

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 18:41:18 -0700, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com>
wrote:

>In article <aflsu79sildp58kka...@4ax.com>,
> micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>> OT? Is there a more appropriate, active ng to ask this quesion?
>>
>> A friend's friend's Mac shows only 2 gig when it has 4 gig.
>>
>> Is there some software which will say which 2 are not found, or bad,
>> or whatever. Free if possible. Any other advice is also
>> appreciated.

I meant to say it was a laptop.

>If your friend is running a recent version of Mac OS X, have him take a

Probably recent. My friend's friend is not poor.**

>look at the Apple menu > About This Mac > More Info > Memory panel:
>
><http://jollyroger.kicks-ass.org/about_this_mac-memory.png>
>
>Was the memory recently installed, or what? It would help to know more
>about his situation.

I don't know. I might know more on Sunday.

Thanks a lot.

**I hear Mac owners have more money than the rest of us slobs, that
you pay 20 to 30 dollars more per night for hotels, something about
40, and that when Orbitz advertizes on the web, it shows more
expensive hotels to Mac users.

[nospam]

In article <u2nsu7t7u6o1u781c...@4ax.com>, micky

<NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> **I hear Mac owners have more money than the rest of us slobs, that
> you pay 20 to 30 dollars more per night for hotels, something about
> 40, and that when Orbitz advertizes on the web, it shows more
> expensive hotels to Mac users.

that's not what the article said.

mac users do *not* pay more than other people do for the same hotel, or
anything else for that matter.

what they tend to do is prefer nicer hotels over dumpy ones, which not
surprisingly, cost more. therefore, orbitz lists them first, since they
think that's what they probably want.

users can still sort by price and pick the cheap hotels, if they prefer.

[*Hemidactylus*]

Proper seating would probably not be an issue. I switched RAM from one
PC to another not long ago and didn't click it in all the way on first
try. Since Apple frowns on users doing stuff, that's probably not an issue.

Linux has something available called memtest which checks memory using
all kinds of approaches. Not sure if Mac OS X has a similar utility.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memtest86

[*Hemidactylus*]

When you say it shows 2GB it that total or what's currently available?
The Activity Monitor could be confusing if you don't know what you are
looking at:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1342

The system will have overhead, which diminishes what is free for use. On
a PC I noticed a discrepancy in RAM between what I should have, and what
was usable, but that was a hardware thing allotted for other purposes
and not anomalous. 50% of RAM would not be a hardware thing and would be
a major anomaly if not attributed to system overhead. If you're not
misreading the output, there could be loose RAM that's not properly
seated if recently installed or bad RAM or maybe a mobo issue.

[micky]

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 05:16:57 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>In message <aflsu79sildp58kka...@4ax.com>

>/Applications/Utilities/System Information

Okay. Thanks eveyrone.

[Paul Magnussen]

Did it EVER show 4 gig? If you can, turn the Mac off, open the side and
make sure the memory is seated properly, and hasn't got jarred loose.

Paul Magnussen

[micky]

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 10:07:43 -0700, Paul Magnussen
<magic...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>micky wrote:
>> OT? Is there a more appropriate, active ng to ask this quesion?
>>
>> A friend's friend's Mac shows only 2 gig when it has 4 gig.
>>
>> Is there some software which will say which 2 are not found, or bad,
>> or whatever. Free if possible. Any other advice is also
>> appreciated.
>
>Did it EVER show 4 gig?

Good quesiton.

>If you can, turn the Mac off, open the side and
>make sure the memory is seated properly, and hasn't got jarred loose.

What started all this, for me, is that my friend called to see if I
had a #0 Phillips, because t hey were haiving a hard time putting in
the screw with a number 1. Inside the RAM compartment, I think.
>
>Paul Magnussen

[micky]

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 22:12:41 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>In message <88juu7tc7tcrjk845...@4ax.com>

> micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 10:07:43 -0700, Paul Magnussen
>> <magic...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>>micky wrote:
>>>> OT? Is there a more appropriate, active ng to ask this quesion?
>>>>
>>>> A friend's friend's Mac shows only 2 gig when it has 4 gig.
>>>>
>>>> Is there some software which will say which 2 are not found, or bad,
>>>> or whatever. Free if possible. Any other advice is also
>>>> appreciated.
>>>
>>>Did it EVER show 4 gig?
>
>> Good quesiton.
>

>If it is a 'iLamp' style iMac like you said, none of those can take 4GB
>of RAM.

No, this thread is about my friend's friend's laptop. It's the other
thread about the first friend's G4. Sorry. It would have been
clearer ifI I'd remembered that this thread was about a laptop.

> The documented maximum is 1GB, the actual maximum is 2GB, *if* you
>have a later (USB2) model. The early ones max out at 1GB of RAM.
>
>Probably what he did was buy 2x2GB modules from someone who either knows
>nothing about Macs, or didn't check, or didn't care. The computer cannot
>address more than 2GB of RAM, so that is all it sees.
>
>You should still check the system information as it could be seeing a
>single 2GB module (good, as you can do something else with the other
>module, maybe), or it could be seeing only 1GB per module.
>
>Whatever the answer, he cannot have 4GB in a G4 iMac. Even the G5 iMacs
>max out at 2 or 2.5GB. The first iMac that can take 4G is the late-2007
>redesign (when they moved from the white plastic G5 style to the new
>ALuminum style) which can take 6GB, though Apple documentation lists the
>maximum as 4GB.

>
>> What started all this, for me, is that my friend called to see if I
>> had a #0 Phillips, because t hey were haiving a hard time putting in
>> the screw with a number 1. Inside the RAM compartment, I think.
>

>There's no screws inside the RAM compartment. There are screws on the
>bottom that need to be removed to expose the RAM modules.

Maybe that was it.

> I would think
>a #1 philips would work, but perhaps not.

[David Empson]

Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <88juu7tc7tcrjk845...@4ax.com>
> micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> > On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 10:07:43 -0700, Paul Magnussen
> > <magic...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >>micky wrote:
> >>> OT? Is there a more appropriate, active ng to ask this quesion?
> >>>
> >>> A friend's friend's Mac shows only 2 gig when it has 4 gig.
> >>>
> >>> Is there some software which will say which 2 are not found, or bad,
> >>> or whatever. Free if possible. Any other advice is also
> >>> appreciated.
> >>
> >>Did it EVER show 4 gig?
>
> > Good quesiton.
>

> If it is a 'iLamp' style iMac like you said, none of those can take 4GB

> of RAM. The documented maximum is 1GB, the actual maximum is 2GB, *if* you

> have a later (USB2) model. The early ones max out at 1GB of RAM.

Judging from earlier messages, the "friend" has the iMac G4, while this
computer with the 2 GB/4 GB problem is a different one, owned by a
"friend of a friend".

It would help to know what sort of Mac we are talking about for this one
which has dropped from 4 GB to 2 GB.

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[Wes Groleau]

On 06-30-2012 01:00, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
> Linux has something available called memtest which checks memory using
> all kinds of approaches. Not sure if Mac OS X has a similar utility.

Also available for Windows and Mac. There is a GUI wrapper for it
called Rember, but if you do the command-line version, you can test more
memory. For the max, run it in single-user mode.

But there's no point in this case--if the Mac says the memory doesn't
exist, no program is going to test it.

--
Wes Groleau

You always have time for what you do first.

[micky]

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 22:33:04 -0400, Wes Groleau
<Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:

>On 06-30-2012 01:00, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
>> Linux has something available called memtest which checks memory using
>> all kinds of approaches. Not sure if Mac OS X has a similar utility.
>
>Also available for Windows and Mac.

I looked for it after Herri reminded me of Memtest87, and the only
version for Mac I found was for Mac with intel cpus. I don't pay
close attention to Mac, but I thought at one time that was rare. Is
it more common now? Would the iMac G4 have one?

> There is a GUI wrapper for it
>called Rember, but if you do the command-line version, you can test more
>memory. For the max, run it in single-user mode.
>
>But there's no point in this case--if the Mac says the memory doesn't
>exist, no program is going to test it.

Good point. Like I say, he'll call me tomorrow or next week. It's
not like his friend's computer isn't working. Still I try to keep
ahead of him on computer stuff, even on some parts of Mac stuff.

[micky]

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 21:35:09 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

More info. My friend came over to get my #0 screwdriver and told me
that his friend has a Leopard whatever, I think.

But I'm posting because he says the screw he needs to screw in jumped
off the screwdriver and was attracted to the case, which he says is
aluminum. So he wonders if there is some sort of electromagnet or
other magnet under the aluminum. (And I wonder if an aluminum case
would allowt magnetism to get from one side to the other?)

The screw jumped off the screwdriver, went to the case, and then fell
into the chamber where the memory is, if I understood him correctly.
It took them a while to get the screw out of the computer.

[micky]

On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 17:04:24 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 21:35:09 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
>wrote:
>

I appreciate everyone's help in this thread (and the other for that
matter) .

>>
>>A friend's friend's Mac shows only 2 gig when it has 4 gig.

The friend of my friend is a woman.

She bought 2 more gig online. Paul, iIt's never had 4 gigs before.
It's a MacBook Pro something or other laptop (I can find out the rest
of the name) , and has two slots, each of which is supposed to take 2
gigs.

But with 4 gigs in, it only showed 2 gigs, using a built-in function.

Apple support said to take out one stick and test the new one. He
did and the new stick didn't work but made a beeping nosie of some
sort. He took that out and put in only the original stick, which
had worked of course, but again he got the same noise, as if the
orginal stick was also bad?? .

I'm sure he turned the power off, probably removed the battery, before
fiddling with the memory. Is it conceivable that he ruined the
original stick, or maybe the number 1 socket? But didn't notice?

I've put sticks in a lot on PC's and I would have been glad to do
this for him, but I don't think he wanted/wants my help, beyond
advice. He says it clicked when he pushed it in, and then he stopped
pushing. and that he got the notches right. Of course I'd rather do it
myself, to know for sure, but he doesn't want me.

I told him to try putting in the original stick again 2 or 3 more
times until it worked, but maybe there was better advice to give
him?????

The alternative is the Apple Store, which he has been to, and which
wants 50 or 100 dollars to do this, and he won't look like a clever
guy to his friend, who right now has no computer (and no electricty
either (because of the storms and fallen trees) , but the computer was
charged.)

A little more below:

>>Is there some software which will say which 2 are not found, or bad,
>>or whatever. Free if possible. Any other advice is also
>>appreciated.
>
>More info. My friend came over to get my #0 screwdriver and told me
>that his friend has a Leopard whatever, I think.
>
>But I'm posting because he says the screw he needs to screw in jumped
>off the screwdriver and was attracted to the case, which he says is
>aluminum. So he wonders if there is some sort of electromagnet or
>other magnet under the aluminum. (And I wonder if an aluminum case
>would allowt magnetism to get from one side to the other?)

He also asked what the screws are made of. Stainless isn't attracted
by magnets he says, so iis it plain steel??

>
>The screw jumped off the screwdriver, went to the case, and then fell
>into the chamber where the memory is, if I understood him correctly.

Sorry I was wrong about this. Yes, as somone pointed out, it was a
screw to put the memory cover on, so the cover for the RAM was in
place, but it seems the battery cover was not in place, so it's
conceivable that it went in there. My friend can't find it anywhere.

>It took them a while to get the screw out of the computer.

Thanks again.

[Wes Groleau]

On 06-30-2012 22:47, micky wrote:
> <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:
>> On 06-30-2012 01:00, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
>>> Linux has something available called memtest which checks memory using
>>> all kinds of approaches. Not sure if Mac OS X has a similar utility.
>>
>> Also available for Windows and Mac.
>
> I looked for it after Herri reminded me of Memtest87, and the only
> version for Mac I found was for Mac with intel cpus. I don't pay
> close attention to Mac, but I thought at one time that was rare. Is
> it more common now? Would the iMac G4 have one?

The intel code was rewritten for PPC and packaged in prior versions of
Rember. I don't know whether you can still find that online.


--
Wes Groleau

“In the field of language teaching, Method A is the logical
contradiction of Method B: if the assumptions from which
A claims to be derived are correct, then B cannot work,
and vice versa. Yet one colleague is getting excellent
results with A and another is getting comparable results
with B. How is this possible?”
— Earl W. Stevick

[Jolly Roger]

In article <5mt1v75455pa18uo8...@4ax.com>,

micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> The friend of my friend is a woman.

.
.
.
> He took that out
.
.
.

> he got the same noise, as if the orginal stick was also bad?? .

.
.

.
> I'm sure he turned the power

.
.
.

> I would have been glad to do this for him, but I don't think he wanted/wants my help, beyond
> advice. He says it clicked when he pushed it in, and then he stopped
> pushing. and that he got the notches right. Of course I'd rather do it
> myself, to know for sure, but he doesn't want me.

.
.

.
> I told him to try putting in the original stick again 2 or 3 more
> times until it worked, but maybe there was better advice to give
> him?????

I'm starting to wonder if your friend is actually you.

[Andreas Rutishauser]

Salut Micky

you should start to give us more accurate data...

Telling us that the friend of your friend is a woman does not help in
identifying the Mac in question or the OS it is running...

In article <5mt1v75455pa18uo8...@4ax.com>,
micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 17:04:24 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 21:35:09 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> I appreciate everyone's help in this thread (and the other for that
> matter) .
> >>
> >>A friend's friend's Mac shows only 2 gig when it has 4 gig.
>
> The friend of my friend is a woman.
>
> She bought 2 more gig online. Paul, iIt's never had 4 gigs before.
> It's a MacBook Pro something or other laptop (I can find out the rest
> of the name) , and has two slots, each of which is supposed to take 2
> gigs.

please find out. Information from System Profiler (click on the Apple at
the top left of the screen, choose "About this Mac", then choose "More
Information"). The model Identifier would be really useful...

What exact kind of RAM did she buy online (technical specs would be
useful)

>
> But with 4 gigs in, it only showed 2 gigs, using a built-in function.
>
> Apple support said to take out one stick and test the new one. He
> did and the new stick didn't work but made a beeping nosie of some
> sort. He took that out and put in only the original stick, which
> had worked of course, but again he got the same noise, as if the
> orginal stick was also bad?? .
>
> I'm sure he turned the power off, probably removed the battery, before
> fiddling with the memory. Is it conceivable that he ruined the
> original stick, or maybe the number 1 socket? But didn't notice?

Now: he or she?

yes: PowerBook G4 and MacBook Pro Aluminium have quite strong magnets to
pull down the hook that keeps the lid/monitor closed.

And please make your mind up if the friend of your friend is male or
female...

Cheers
Andreas

--
MacAndreas Rutishauser, <http://www.MacAndreas.ch>
EDV-Dienstleistungen, Hard- und Software, Internet und Netzwerk
Beratung, Unterstuetzung und Schulung
<mailto:and...@MacAndreas.ch>, Fon: 044 / 721 36 47

[micky]

On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 19:47:17 -0700, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com>
wrote:

No, it's my friend and his friend.

I wouldn't be embarrassed to admit I was comfused by Mac RAM.

[micky]

On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 07:27:05 +0200, Andreas Rutishauser
<and...@macandreas.ch> wrote:

>Salut Micky
>
>you should start to give us more accurate data...
>
>Telling us that the friend of your friend is a woman does not help in
>identifying the Mac in question or the OS it is running...

I only did that to make the prounouns make sense.

>In article <5mt1v75455pa18uo8...@4ax.com>,
> micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 17:04:24 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 21:35:09 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> I appreciate everyone's help in this thread (and the other for that
>> matter) .
>> >>
>> >>A friend's friend's Mac shows only 2 gig when it has 4 gig.
>>
>> The friend of my friend is a woman.
>>
>> She bought 2 more gig online. Paul, iIt's never had 4 gigs before.
>> It's a MacBook Pro something or other laptop (I can find out the rest
>> of the name) , and has two slots, each of which is supposed to take 2
>> gigs.
>
>please find out. Information from System Profiler (click on the Apple at
>the top left of the screen, choose "About this Mac", then choose "More
>Information"). The model Identifier would be really useful...
>
>What exact kind of RAM did she buy online (technical specs would be
>useful)

I don't know any of that stuff, and my friend probably doesn't know it
either. He's not a techie, probably not in the habit of looking at
"About this Mac", and I can't suggest it, because he's always in a
hurry now when we're on the phone. . He hasn't caledl me when he's at
his friend's house, and because his wife is recovering from abdominal
surgery, at home, with him caring for her, he probably spends only a
few minutes at the friend's with the laptop.

But am I right that sometimes it takes several tries to get the stick
well seated in the slot, even when it goes click?

>> But with 4 gigs in, it only showed 2 gigs, using a built-in function.
>>
>> Apple support said to take out one stick and test the new one. He
>> did and the new stick didn't work but made a beeping nosie of some
>> sort. He took that out and put in only the original stick, which
>> had worked of course, but again he got the same noise, as if the
>> orginal stick was also bad?? .
>>
>> I'm sure he turned the power off, probably removed the battery, before
>> fiddling with the memory. Is it conceivable that he ruined the
>> original stick, or maybe the number 1 socket? But didn't notice?
>
>Now: he or she?

SHE owns the computer, bought the memory, put it in the first time,
and is the one who called Apple. . Since then, I think HE is doing
most or all of of the work

The problem now is that either stick alone give the beeping noise,
when it used to be that the original stick worked fine. Do you think
it's possible they ruined the memory, maybe by sticking it in wrong or
with static on their hands?

I did forget to remind him about that becasue there is never any
static in my house. And maybe because Apple suggested her new stick
was bad, and afaik said nothing about her ruining it with static
electricity. But if Apple did say something, she would have avoided
any static electricity after that, and she would have told him.
........

>>
>> Sorry I was wrong about this. Yes, as somone pointed out, it was a
>> screw to put the memory cover on, so the cover for the RAM was in
>> place, but it seems the battery cover was not in place, so it's
>> conceivable that it went in there. My friend can't find it anywhere.
>>
>

>yes: PowerBook G4 and MacBook Pro Aluminium have quite strong magnets to
>pull down the hook that keeps the lid/monitor closed.

I'll let him know.

Thanks.

....

>Cheers
>Andreas

[Andreas Rutishauser]

Salut Micky

In article <c1m4v7dv0cf9i86pt...@4ax.com>,

well: you are asking for our time to identify a problem friends of you
have wit a Mac computer... But your friends don't have time for whatever
reason to provide us with necessary information to help...

>
> But am I right that sometimes it takes several tries to get the stick
> well seated in the slot, even when it goes click?

It shouldn't, but if you don't know what you're doing, it might...

>
> >> But with 4 gigs in, it only showed 2 gigs, using a built-in function.
> >>
> >> Apple support said to take out one stick and test the new one. He
> >> did and the new stick didn't work but made a beeping nosie of some
> >> sort. He took that out and put in only the original stick, which
> >> had worked of course, but again he got the same noise, as if the
> >> orginal stick was also bad?? .
> >>
> >> I'm sure he turned the power off, probably removed the battery, before
> >> fiddling with the memory. Is it conceivable that he ruined the
> >> original stick, or maybe the number 1 socket? But didn't notice?

> The problem now is that either stick alone give the beeping noise,
> when it used to be that the original stick worked fine. Do you think
> it's possible they ruined the memory, maybe by sticking it in wrong or
> with static on their hands?

Might well be, or ruined the socket(s). There is only 1 way the DIMMS go
in... DIMMS have different form factors...

>
> I did forget to remind him about that becasue there is never any
> static in my house. And maybe because Apple suggested her new stick
> was bad, and afaik said nothing about her ruining it with static
> electricity. But if Apple did say something, she would have avoided
> any static electricity after that, and she would have told him.
> ........
> >>
> >> Sorry I was wrong about this. Yes, as somone pointed out, it was a
> >> screw to put the memory cover on, so the cover for the RAM was in
> >> place, but it seems the battery cover was not in place, so it's
> >> conceivable that it went in there. My friend can't find it anywhere.
> >>
> >
> >yes: PowerBook G4 and MacBook Pro Aluminium have quite strong magnets to
> >pull down the hook that keeps the lid/monitor closed.
>
> I'll let him know.

I'm out until information about the Mac model involved is known and what
kind of RAM was bought (hint: check the bill/receipt of the online
shop...)

btw: comp.sys.mac.system would be a better group for this discussion
than .apps

[micky]

On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 07:51:32 +0200, Andreas Rutishauser
<and...@macandreas.ch> wrote:

>Salut Micky

I've been to Switzerland once, to see a friend. (a different friend)
Geneva. and places not too far away. People were very nice to me.

>
>In article <c1m4v7dv0cf9i86pt...@4ax.com>,
> micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 07:27:05 +0200, Andreas Rutishauser
>> <and...@macandreas.ch> wrote:

snip

Thanks. I would love to go over there and do it, try it myself, and
come back with complete information, but in gereral my friend doesn't
like accepting hielp, except maybe advice. . But he does a lot of
things for me, and I look for things to do for him. He's also 10
years older than I so I have to treat him with respect.

>btw: comp.sys.mac.system would be a better group for this discussion
>than .apps

Thanks. I think I'lll leave them alone on t his topic, at least
until I hear something new about it.

>Cheers
>Andreas

[dorayme]

In article <5625v7h8rmn76efgq...@4ax.com>,

micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> He's also 10
> years older than I so I have to treat him with respect.

In *that* case, young man, lick the underside of my feet.

--
dorayme

[micky]

On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 07:51:32 +0200, Andreas Rutishauser
<and...@macandreas.ch> wrote:

>>
>> But am I right that sometimes it takes several tries to get the stick
>> well seated in the slot, even when it goes click?
>
>It shouldn't, but if you don't know what you're doing, it might...
>>

Well, someone else came over and was able to get the memory in its
slot and all is well now. My friend will have to practice more.

Thanks, and thanks all.

[Phillip Jones]

Those slots are tight and you almost have to use a enough force to break
the boards to get them in the slots and the snaps on each side must
firmly lock into the notch in the board. I added memory to Mac's and you
nearly sweat bullets to get them in fearful your going to break them.

--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/ mailto:pjo...@kimbanet.com