I give up. Why does Netscape freeze so often?
Jim Conner
Subject says it all. I'm running Netscape 2.02 on a 6100 and 7100 at
work, both with System 7.5.3. Users of these machines _frequently_ (2-3
times per day) reboot because Netscape freezes the entire machine.
The freezes occur most often when just following a link, although I have
occasionally seen Netscape freeze simply by launching it!
Norton Utilities reports b-tree errors often (but not always) after
Netscape freezes.
From reading some other posts in this group, it looks like I'm not alone
with these problems. Has anyone found any solutions? I don't count as a
solution Microsoft Internet Exploder.
<RANT INTENSITY=10>Netscape Navigator authors, are you *complete
boneheads*? Navigator is the *only* telecom application that is giving me
problems! Why the hell can't you fix it? Why have you released a product
that has so many nice features, yet is so royally screwed up when it comes
to performance?</RANT>
Thanks for any help on this....
Jim Conner
jc...@cornell.edu
--
Do you believe in Macintosh? Learn how to help the cause by subscribing to the "EvangeList" listserver! Send email to: <evang...@macway.com> or go to: <http://www.solutions.apple.com/ListAdmin/>.
John Nagle
jc...@cornell.edu (Jim Conner) writes:
>Subject says it all. I'm running Netscape 2.02 on a 6100 and 7100 at
>work, both with System 7.5.3. Users of these machines _frequently_ (2-3
>times per day) reboot because Netscape freezes the entire machine.
>The freezes occur most often when just following a link, although I have
>occasionally seen Netscape freeze simply by launching it!
Netscape usually freezes because it calls MacOS routines from tasks that
don't work right when called from tasks. The "Netscape defrost" program
(don't ask me for it, use a web search engine) was written to work
around one such defect in Netscape.
Another such defect tends to freeze
the machine when running my Simple PPP; clicking on Stop while a TCP
connection is opening will usually freeze the machine. If you have
MacsBug, you can see Netscape in a tight loop in a task, waiting for
something to happen that can't happen because Netscape is in a tight
loop in a task.
It's worth noting that Netscape is a highly concurrent program that
suffers badly from the Mac's lack of decent multitasking.
John Nagle
G. V. Palazzolo
In article <nagleDw...@netcom.com>, na...@netcom.com (John Nagle) wrote:
>
> It's worth noting that Netscape is a highly concurrent program that
> suffers badly from the Mac's lack of decent multitasking.
>
>
Hi. I雋 wondering if you might explain that statement a little more, in
terms an amateur can understand? =) I雋 trying to learn all I can about
these matters.
Thanks.
--
*-*-*-*-*-*-*
G V Palazzolo
zo...@lightlink.com
*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Never ask of money spent / Where the spender thinks it went
Nobody was ever meant / To remember or invent
What [she] did with every cent.
-- Robert Frost, "Hardship of Accounting," _Further Range_, 1936.
Benjamin Ziff
>
> The freezes occur most often when just following a link, although I have
> occasionally seen Netscape freeze simply by launching it!
>
>
> From reading some other posts in this group, it looks like I'm not alone
> with these problems. Has anyone found any solutions? I don't count as a
> solution Microsoft Internet Exploder.
>
>
> Jim Conner
> jc...@cornell.edu
>
> --
Dear Jim and others with this problem:
Netscape Defrost will solve about 90% of freezing problems. The others
still happen. B-tree errors have to be fixed.
Netscape Defrost can be found at the Netscape Homepage which can be
accessed right from your Netscape screen. It is free. It is small - about
9k. It works.
Good luck,
-Ron
Lars Olsson
John Nagle <na...@netcom.com> wrote:
>Netscape usually freezes because it calls MacOS routines from tasks
> that don't work right when called from tasks. The "Netscape defrost"
> program (don't ask me for it, use a web search engine) was written
> to work around one such defect in Netscape.
>
> Another such defect tends to freeze the machine when running my
> Simple PPP; clicking on Stop while a TCP connection is opening will
> usually freeze the machine. If you have MacsBug, you can see
> Netscape in a tight loop in a task, waiting for something to happen
> that can't happen because Netscape is in a tight loop in a task.
>
> It's worth noting that Netscape is a highly concurrent program
> that suffers badly from the Mac's lack of decent multitasking.
Oh, something's wrong with the MacOS - not Netscape Navigator??? Face it
John - Netscape 2.02 is a piece of junk. They say it's a final but it
works like an early alpha. You won't get your moneys worth if you pay
the sharewarefee for Netscape 2.02.
Netscape say they will support OpenDoc (whatever OpenDoc is supposed to
be good for), but they haven't yet got a properly working version 2.
MacOS is a brilliant OS and it is working perfectly on my LC III.
Netscape 2.02 crashes simply because it's not well enough programmed. So
you will have to see whatever it's worth that Netscape claims they will
support OpenDoc. It's probably worth nothing, since Netscape is not
going to manage to make it work!
When you eventually get tired of restarting - try something else. I have
been using MSIE 2.0 and then 2.0.1 for almost four months now, and it is
a _REAL_ Macintosh application! It's reliable (as long as you don't use
it too much for news) and it looks, works and feels like a Mac should.
Best regards
Lars O
Ron Parr
Things got much better for me after I disabled virtual memory and/or
RamDoubler and restricted myself to one browser window at a time.
Disabling Javascript or avoiding Javascript pages seems to help too.
--
Ron Parr email: pa...@cs.berkeley.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://http.cs.berkeley.edu/~parr/
Mac Tips: http://http.cs.berkeley.edu/~parr/rrrt-top.html
Philippe Kientz
>
> > In article <jc30-15089...@132.236.236.220>, jc...@cornell.edu (Jim
> > Conner) wrote:
>Netscape freezes the entire machine.
> > >
> > > solution Microsoft Internet Exploder.
Try the Netscape Defrost extension ; you'll find it everywhere (infomac,
shareware.com) ; it is quite ok with netscape 2 to 3.0b7 (sorry for my
english). Believe me you dont need MSIE...
Good luck
--
Philippe Kientz
phk...@worldnet.fr
Jim Conner
Thank you for the constructive suggestions regarding Netscape. I will
give Netscape Defrost a try.
As for the idea of moving to Microsoft Internet Explorer: I can't see
using a browser from a company that is losing market share and is likely
to be out of business by this time next year.
Thanks again,
Lars Olsson
John Rethorst <jc...@cornell.edu> wrote:
> In article <jc30-15089...@132.236.236.220>, jc...@cornell.edu (Jim
> Conner) wrote:
>
> > Subject says it all. I'm running Netscape 2.02 on a 6100 and 7100 at
> > work, both with System 7.5.3. Users of these machines _frequently_ (2-3
> > times per day) reboot because Netscape freezes the entire machine.
> >
> >. . . Has anyone found any solutions? I don't count as a
> > solution Microsoft Internet Exploder.
> >
> Nor do I. I also found Netscape to crash too often, so I tried MacWeb. Now
> unfortunately out of date as far as new HTML formatting - tables etc. go,
> but still my browser of choice for most links. Faster, too.
If you get tired of restarts try Internet Explorer (Microsoft). I have
been using 2.0 and 2.0.1 for almost four months now and it has only
crashed five or six times during this period! Personally, I value that a
lot. :-) Don't use it when writing in newsgroups though, because that's
when it crashes. Reading in newsgroups works alright but is dull, so
don't use it for that at all. MSIE 2.0.1 uses less memory than Netscape
2.02.
Lars O
John Rethorst
> Subject says it all. I'm running Netscape 2.02 on a 6100 and 7100 at
> work, both with System 7.5.3. Users of these machines _frequently_ (2-3
> times per day) reboot because Netscape freezes the entire machine.
>
>. . . Has anyone found any solutions? I don't count as a
> solution Microsoft Internet Exploder.
>
Nor do I. I also found Netscape to crash too often, so I tried MacWeb. Now
unfortunately out of date as far as new HTML formatting - tables etc. go,
but still my browser of choice for most links. Faster, too.
John R.
Jerry Kelly III
Jim --
I, along with many others, have had the same problem on my 6100/60 when
using OT 1.1, *any* version of xxxPPP, and *any* web-browser when it
encountered a graphically-rich page. Some blamed it on the way OT and/or
FreePPP handled packets with errors. The situation was better switching
back to classic networking from OT1.1; crashes occurred sporadically
instead of constantly.
Brave soul that I am, however, I'm trying the new OT 1.1.1 and OT/PPP 1.0
betas. And I wish to report -- yes, you can quote me on this -- I have not
had one single crash or freeze in three days of heavy web-browsing!!! It
seems that Apple has fixed the problem. I always had a hunch it lied in OT
1.1 or FreePPP. Anyway, I'm knocking on wood as I write this but this new
software seems much more stable.
Give it a try!
Jerry Kelly III
Business Advisor
Jim Conner <jc...@cornell.edu> wrote in article
<jc30-15089...@132.236.236.220>...
> Subject says it all. I'm running Netscape 2.02 on a 6100 and 7100 at
> work, both with System 7.5.3. Users of these machines _frequently_ (2-3
> times per day) reboot because Netscape freezes the entire machine.
>
> The freezes occur most often when just following a link, although I have
> occasionally seen Netscape freeze simply by launching it!
>
> Norton Utilities reports b-tree errors often (but not always) after
> Netscape freezes.
>
> From reading some other posts in this group, it looks like I'm not alone
> with these problems. Has anyone found any solutions? I don't count as a
> solution Microsoft Internet Exploder.
>
John Brochu
In article <1996081611...@dialup119-3-11.swipnet.se>,
laban....@mbox300.swipnet.se (Lars Olsson) wrote:
> John Nagle <na...@netcom.com> wrote:
>
>
> When you eventually get tired of restarting - try something else. I have
> been using MSIE 2.0 and then 2.0.1 for almost four months now, and it is
> a _REAL_ Macintosh application! It's reliable (as long as you don't use
> it too much for news) and it looks, works and feels like a Mac should.
>
> Best regards
> Lars O
I've found NetScape 3.0b7 to be MUCH more stable than 2.0x EVER was. I
could rely on v2 crashing often when the file cache was getting flushed.
v3 has not crashed once during this activity. Of course you'll probably
want to wait now for the final v3 release due next week. I don't think
3.0b7 has crashed once on me in the week or so I've been using it. 3.0b5
and 6 were also pretty solid.
--
- John Brochu (jbr...@tiac.net)
Author, CalcWorks & PopupCD
http://www.tiac.net/users/jbrochu
Lars Olsson
Jim Conner <jc...@cornell.edu> wrote:
> Subject says it all. I'm running Netscape 2.02 on a 6100 and 7100 at
> work, both with System 7.5.3. Users of these machines _frequently_ (2-3
> times per day) reboot because Netscape freezes the entire machine.
>
> The freezes occur most often when just following a link, although I have
> occasionally seen Netscape freeze simply by launching it!
>
> Norton Utilities reports b-tree errors often (but not always) after
> Netscape freezes.
>
> From reading some other posts in this group, it looks like I'm not alone
> with these problems. Has anyone found any solutions? I don't count as a
> solution Microsoft Internet Exploder.
Why not? As opposed to NN MSIE works very well. It hasn't yet messed up
my harddisk, and I have been using it everyday for almost four months.
During this time it has only crashed 5-6 times, _very_ few anyway.
> Netscape Navigator authors, are you *complete
> boneheads*? Navigator is the *only* telecom application that is giving me
> problems! Why the hell can't you fix it? Why have you released a product
> that has so many nice features, yet is so royally screwed up when it comes
> to performance?
I guess they count on you beeing stubborn enough to use their
never-finished browsers anyway. Navigator 2.02, the one I've tried, is a
piece of junk. They say it's a final but it's the worst beta application
I've ever tried. (I have been using Mac since 1990.) They make a living
on us paying sharewarefees, but I don't pay anything for an app that's
totally impossible to run for more than three minutes (could be a good
thing for my phone-bill though :-).
> Thanks for any help on this....
There is little help as long as you're so stubborn. But keep rebooting
if you think that's the fun part of internet. :-) I don't.
Regards
Lars Olsson
Gordon Meyer
>
>Brave soul that I am, however, I'm trying the new OT 1.1.1 and OT/PPP 1.0
>betas. And I wish to report -- yes, you can quote me on this -- I have not
>had one single crash or freeze in three days of heavy web-browsing!!! It
>seems that Apple has fixed the problem. I always had a hunch it lied in OT
>1.1 or FreePPP. Anyway, I'm knocking on wood as I write this but this new
>software seems much more stable.
I've been long-suffering from these freezes too. It's *not* just Netscape.
It happens with any browser, and with either MacPPP or FreePPP. Since
they're built from the same codebase I'd say that's where the problem
lies. Having switched to OT/PPP has resolved the freezing for me.
--
G. Meyer <grm...@ricochet.net>
Make Mine Macintosh!
Stephen R. Diamond
In article <jcr2-15089...@cu-dialup-0042.cit.cornell.edu>,
jc...@cornell.edu (John Rethorst) wrote:
> > I don't count as a
> > solution Microsoft Internet Exploder.
> >
> Nor do I.
Why not?
Stephen R. Diamond
Christopher D. Leuty
> Subject says it all. I'm running Netscape 2.02 on a 6100 and 7100 at
> work, both with System 7.5.3. Users of these machines _frequently_ (2-3
> times per day) reboot because Netscape freezes the entire machine.
Try setting the cache to zero. It's helped me to minimize crashes and it
feels like it's faster - I guess becuase it's not writing to disk. I think
there's still a problem when Netscape's available memory gets low after
much downloading but I really can't remember when it last crashed (PM7100
& Ethernet at work, 630 & PPP at home).
--
Christopher D. Leuty, at Home, Manchester UK
http://www.un.umist.ac.uk/cdl/ Getting the job done with Macintosh.
Terry Harpold
> From reading some other posts in this group, it looks like I'm not alone
> with these problems. Has anyone found any solutions? I don't count as a
> solution Microsoft Internet Exploder.
Two suggestions that I recommend to reduce problems associated with
Netscape Navigator crashing -- and perhaps to reduce the crashes.
1) When you have a crash while using Navigator, be sure to clear the
Navigator cache the next time you open it. This appears to clean up stray
bits left behind by the crash. You should run MacTools or Norton Utiities
after most crashes and fix any problems you run into.
2) Try creating a ShrinkWrap disk image -- of, say, 10 MB, and allowing
read/write access -- that is mounted from your Startup Items folder, and to
which Netscape writes its cache files. This might slow down the writing and
reading of the cache, I guess, but it appears to work with no other
hitches. Has, I believe, two benefits:
a) Netcape writes its cache files to the disk image, and not to your
hard disk, so there are many fewer files stored on your hard disk (the
contents of the cache file can easily number in the hundreds). Because the
minimum size of "files" in the image file-cum-directory is much smaller
than the minimum file size on your hard disk, the overall loss of hard disk
space for the cache may in fact be less when stored in the image file than
when each file is written individually to the disk.
b) I've experienced no B-Tree errors following a Navigator crash since
using this method. Because Navigator is no longer writing writing
gadzillions of little files to your hard disk (but instead writing and
rewriting portions of the disk image), crashes are less likely screw up the
hard disk's directory structure -- any damage is likely to be localized to
the image file. ShrinkWrap can be set to verify the checksums of images as
they are mounted -- that would, I think, catch any problems. In any case, I
keep a compressed version of the image file (when empty, it compresses to
under 10K) and periodically replace the image file.
TH
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Terry Harpold thar...@mindspring.com
terry....@lcc.gatech.edu
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/faculty/harpold/
"Analysis is not pragmatic in its aims, if pragmatism means compliance
with social, economic, and political norms and realities. It is
a praxis of jouissance, and jouissance is anything but practical."
-- Bruce Fink
Jim Hart
In article <jbrochu-1608...@jbrochu.tiac.net>, jbr...@tiac.net
(John Brochu) wrote:
3.0b7-rock solid! I skipped 2.x and stuck with 1.1 until last week.
To hell with M$!
JH
Tuzz
==SNIP+
Lars:
Where did you get MSIE 2.0. Download or commercial?
>
> When you eventually get tired of restarting - try something else. I have
> been using MSIE 2.0 and then 2.0.1 for almost four months now, and it is
> a _REAL_ Macintosh application! It's reliable (as long as you don't use
> it too much for news) and it looks, works and feels like a Mac should.
--
Tuzz
tu...@interaccess.com
Robin D.H. Walker
In article <3215F7...@logistix.com>,
Hugh Caley <hca...@logistix.com> wrote:
>You didn't mention whether you were using Open Transport or not. It
>makes a big difference; Classic Appletalk will crash a lot more with
>Netscape.
Do you have any evidence for this assertion?
--
Robin Walker (Network Admin), Queens' College, Cambridge, CB3 9ET, GB
rd...@cam.ac.uk Tel:+44 1223 335528 Fax:+44 1223 335566
Hugh Caley
You didn't mention whether you were using Open Transport or not. It
makes a big difference; Classic Appletalk will crash a lot more with
Netscape.
Also, how much ram does this machine have? If you are not running
virtual memory you will need more than 24 meg of ram to get Excel and
Netscape open at the same time.
Open Transport plus virtual memory (not Ram Doubler!) solved most of my
Netscape problems.
Christopher D. Leuty wrote:
>
> In article <jc30-15089...@132.236.236.220>, jc...@cornell.edu (Jim
> Conner) wrote:
>
> > Subject says it all. I'm running Netscape 2.02 on a 6100 and 7100 at
> > work, both with System 7.5.3. Users of these machines _frequently_ (2-3
> > times per day) reboot because Netscape freezes the entire machine.
>
> Try setting the cache to zero. It's helped me to minimize crashes and it
> feels like it's faster - I guess becuase it's not writing to disk. I think
> there's still a problem when Netscape's available memory gets low after
> much downloading but I really can't remember when it last crashed (PM7100
> & Ethernet at work, 630 & PPP at home).
>
> --
> Christopher D. Leuty, at Home, Manchester UK
> http://www.un.umist.ac.uk/cdl/ Getting the job done with Macintosh.
--
Hugh
hca...@tdl.com
"Brain-eating mutants are bad for business" - Battle Angel
Hugh Caley
Known problem with Netscape 2.02 and Classic Appletalk; open the
browser on a page with a graphic, close Netscape and try to reopen it
and your machine freezes.
My company recently adopted Netscape as our mail client (please, no
snickers) and this is just one of the problems we are facing.
However, load 7.5.3 and enable Open Transport and most of the crashing
problems go away.
Robin D.H. Walker wrote:
>
> In article <3215F7...@logistix.com>,
> Hugh Caley <hca...@logistix.com> wrote:
>
> >You didn't mention whether you were using Open Transport or not. It
> >makes a big difference; Classic Appletalk will crash a lot more with
> >Netscape.
>
> Do you have any evidence for this assertion?
>
> --
> Robin Walker (Network Admin), Queens' College, Cambridge, CB3 9ET, GB
> rd...@cam.ac.uk Tel:+44 1223 335528 Fax:+44 1223 335566
--
Hugh Caley
hca...@tdl.com
"Brain-eating mutants are bad for business" - Battle Angel
Lars Olsson
Jim Conner <jc...@cornell.edu> wrote:
> Thank you for the constructive suggestions regarding Netscape.
I suppose you are ironic. I'm sorry for being rude! (all I wanted was to
be a little provocative :-))
> I will give Netscape Defrost a try.
> Jim Conner
It's still my opinion that Netscape 2.02 is a piece of junk and that
Microsoft Internet Explorer 2.0.1 is a MUCH better choice than Nestcape
2.02. But today I've tried Netscape 3.0b7 for a while, and it works!
v2.02 ususally crashed within the first 5 to 15 minutes, but I have had
3.0b7 running for over an hour now. I am tempted to use Netscape instead
now. MSIE 2.1b1 was after all not at all as good as v2.01, unacceptably
slow on my LCIII and it didn't draw the pages correctly at all times.
Regards
Lars Olsson
Mark Hollis
>> In article <1996081611...@dialup119-3-11.swipnet.se>,
>> laban....@mbox300.swipnet.se (Lars Olsson) wrote:
> > > When you eventually get tired of restarting - try something else.
> > > I have been using MSIE 2.0 and then 2.0.1 for almost four months
> > > now, and it is a _REAL_ Macintosh application! It's reliable (as
> > > long as you don't use it too much for news) and it looks, works
> > > and feels like a Mac should.
> > > Best regards
> > > Lars O
> In article <jbrochu-1608...@jbrochu.tiac.net>,
> jbr...@tiac.net (John Brochu) wrote:
> > I've found NetScape 3.0b7 to be MUCH more stable than 2.0x EVER was.
>
Jim Hart wrote:
>
> 3.0b7-rock solid! I skipped 2.x and stuck with 1.1 until last week.
> To hell with M$!
This pretty much sums things up. I was having problems with version 2.
downloaded Beta 5 and had problems with it, downloaded Beta 7 and have
yet to crash.
But I'm keeping my copy of Microsoft Internet Exploder on my hard disk
to apply just the right amount of serious threat to Navigator. (grin).
--
Unsolicited commercial e-mail to the poster of this message will be
proofread at US$70/hour, minimum charge $150. Submission of such
e-mail to this address will suffice as contractual assent to the said
charge schedule.
Gordon Tandrup
Having just read the list of complaints re Netscape, I guess
I'll have to say I'm lucky or just not using it enough. Been
running 2.02 on an old IIx with RamDoubler installed and
cannot contribute one crash to Netscape. Maybe newer and
faster isn't always better.
Sylvain Chamberland
In article (Dans l¹article) <tuzz-17089...@nntp.interaccess.com>,
tu...@interaccess.com. (Tuzz) wrote (écrivait) :
> ==SNIP+
>
> Lars:
>
> Where did you get MSIE 2.0. Download or commercial?
<http://www.microsoft.com/ie/download/>
Microsoft Internet Explorer is totally free. (But after a 90 days
evaluation, you're supposed to register. No fee, only a registration for a
license to use the software.)
The last official version for Macintosh is 2.0.1. Briefly:
- It does not support frames, nor JavaScript, JAVA or ActiveX
- It supports Netscape plug-ins
- Animated GIF support is not perfect (the animated IE logo does not
display correctly, among other things, and some animations that
should be continous are not and stop after a few moments - which is
really fine by me!).
- Changes to the "favorites", i.e. bookmarks, are only saved when you
quit the program. MSIE 2.0.1 does not crashes often, but no matter:
if you heavily edit your favorites, quit IE 2.0.1 to save the changes.
- Mailto support is atrocious. AppleScript command "registerprotocol"
does not work. Someone has posted a Frontier script which supposedly
does though. (I haven't tried, as I'm still in the process of
learning Frontier.)
- FTP support is similar to Netscape 1.0. (No time estimate nor rate.)
- Newsreading support is very, very basic. No sorting.
The very last version is 2.1 beta 1. Briefly:
- It supports frames, but it's a little buggy.
- It does not support Javascript, nor JAVA or ActiveX
- It supports Netscape plug-ins
- There seems to be a problem with colored table borders. Some bordered
counters won't display. An error message is displayed in its place.
E.g. check <http://www.upc.qc.ca/>
- Favorites are saved during editing, but there are little problems,
sometimes the file is somewhat scrambled.[*]
- Animated GIF support is supposed to be better. Microsoft's animated IE
logo displays correctly.
- News support is still very basic, and it does not work properly with
some servers; it's a known, documented bug.
- It (only) supports LiveScrolling, and as a result scrolling is slower.
Use of page up/down keys is recommended.
- FTP support has been improved. Transfer rates are displayed. Transfer is
still done in the current window.
That's about it I think.
[*] Let's suppose nested folders A (root), B, C and D, each having
subfolders, and C being the topmost subfolder in B. I took 2 newly added
favorites from the bottom of A and moved them together to D. Next time I
opened IE 2.1b1, folder C had disappeared; its contents had moved up in
folder B, and the rest of folder B's contents had moved to A (root). I
reproduced the problem twice.
--
Sylvain Chamberland | Libérez Trân Triêu Quân!
http://www.upc.qc.ca/~schamber/ | Free Tran Trieu Quan!
scha...@upc.qc.ca | http://www.riq.qc.ca/Maitre.Quan/
Clark Martin
I did an interesting test the other day. I brought up NN and while working
on it (about 4 windows open at once) I kept an eye on the 'About this
Mac...' window. I have NN allocated 10Mb and when it started pushing
around 9 used, I started closing windows. With them all closed, it still
showed the same. When I first started, it showed around 2-3Mb. I then
quit NN and then started it again. Again it showed about 2-3Mb used. It
worked okay after that but I didn't use it enough to push the memory usage
up to the limit.
I think that NN is not handling memory allocation (and de-allocation)
correctly and, suprise, it crashes. This ties with my previous experience
with NN crashing.
Until (if???) NS ever fixes this problem, I think I'll keep the 'About
this Mac...' window up and keep an eye on it.
In article <jc30-15089...@132.236.236.220>, jc...@cornell.edu (Jim
Conner) wrote:
> Subject says it all. I'm running Netscape 2.02 on a 6100 and 7100 at
> work, both with System 7.5.3. Users of these machines _frequently_ (2-3
> times per day) reboot because Netscape freezes the entire machine.
>
> The freezes occur most often when just following a link, although I have
> occasionally seen Netscape freeze simply by launching it!
>
> Norton Utilities reports b-tree errors often (but not always) after
> Netscape freezes.
>
> From reading some other posts in this group, it looks like I'm not alone
> with these problems. Has anyone found any solutions? I don't count as a
> solution Microsoft Internet Exploder.
>
> <RANT INTENSITY=10>Netscape Navigator authors, are you *complete
> boneheads*? Navigator is the *only* telecom application that is giving me
> problems! Why the hell can't you fix it? Why have you released a product
> that has so many nice features, yet is so royally screwed up when it comes
> to performance?</RANT>
>
> Thanks for any help on this....
>
> Jim Conner
> jc...@cornell.edu
>
> --
> Do you believe in Macintosh? Learn how to help the cause by subscribing
to the "EvangeList" listserver! Send email to: <evang...@macway.com> or
go to: <http://www.solutions.apple.com/ListAdmin/>.
--
Clark Martin
Macintosh Consultant
Redwood City, CA, USA
Another designated driver on the Information Super Highway.
Garance A Drosehn
jc...@cornell.edu (Jim Conner) wrote:
> Thank you for the constructive suggestions regarding Netscape. I will
> give Netscape Defrost a try.
Along the lines of contructive discussion:
Perhaps it'd help to ask a few questions of the people who are,
and are not, having trouble with Netscape freezing a lot. Here's
three questions to consider:
1. Is the Mac a PowerMac, or a 680x0 Mac?
2. Are you running with Virtual memory on, or off?
2b. I guess ... are you using RamDoubler?
3. Are you using Classic Appletalk, or OpenTransport?
3b. (if OpenTransport, which version?)
This topic is of increasing interest to me, as I do a fair amount
of Mac support here at RPI. Just today I've had two Macs which
have had seriously corrupted cache folders which I had to fix up
(they didn't both get corrupted today, it's just today is the day
I happened to get to them). I had a few more at the end of last
week.
All the problem machines were PowerMacs that were running Classic
Appletalk (because they had an older version of the system (7.5.1
usually), with a pre-1.1 version of OpenTransport), and are running
with virtual memory on. At the same time, I do a fair amount of
web browsing on two different Macs of my own (one here in the
office, one at home). Both are 68K macs, both running Classic
Appletalk (which is to say, MacTCP), both have enough RAM that I
never turn virtual memory on. While I get the occasional netscape
crash, it doesn't happen often, and I've never had a corrupted
directory structure in the cache folder.
I've now upgraded the PowerMacs to System 7.5.3r2, and have them
using OpenTransport 1.1 instead of Classic Appletalk. They'll
still have virtual memory on, even though RAM prices continue to
plummet. It will be interesting to see if they have less trouble
then they did.
Or maybe I should pick up that Defrost thing, and see whether
that helps out...
---
Garance Alistair Drosehn = g...@eclipse.its.rpi.edu
Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable)
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA
Bud Kuenzli
In article <4vbmpl$2...@usenet.rpi.edu>, Garance A Drosehn
<g...@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> wrote:
deleted..
> It'd be interesting to pin down what causes either one of these
> to get into trouble, but knee-jerk reactions of "My app never
> crashes and the competitor's app always crashes" are not going
> to accomplish much of anything, particularly when the people
> you are talking to know that the statement is not true.
>
bummer for you guys.... 2.02 was solid for me, and in the first couple of
days of 3.0 I have had no freezes, no crashes. Only time will tell..
--
Bud Kuenzli
WL7CIK
XLTRMK
In cyberspace after you get where you're going you still don't know where you are.
Jason Barker
I, too, have had freezes with Netscape that seem to happen after a
heavy amount of browsing. Then one time I kept the "About This
Macintosh" box open. As I surfed, the amount of allocated memory used by
Netscape steadily rose. And, yes, when the bar hit the end, the cursor
froze and I had to hit the restart button on back of my PowerMac 6100
(w/ RamDoubler). Surely, this is old news to most of you (I am no
programmer :) ), but I am wondering if I can use the box as a guage to
restart occasionally, or if I can allocate more memory (preferred or
minimum?), or if there's a way to clear up the memory while Netscape is
running. Would OT 1.1.1 be better than MacTCP? Any suggestions would be
appreciated.
Thanks,
Jason
PS. Is this a 'memory leak' in action? Couldn't Netscape fix this??
Garance A Drosehn
> > that suffers badly from the Mac's lack of decent multitasking.
>
> Oh, something's wrong with the MacOS - not Netscape Navigator???
> Face it John - Netscape 2.02 is a piece of junk. They say it's
> a final but it works like an early alpha. You won't get your
> moneys worth if you pay the sharewarefee for Netscape 2.02.
Seems to me that's better luck than paying good money for MS-Word 6.0,
which was the buggiest program I've ever seen on a Mac. And what
claims did Microsoft make initially? Bugs in the OS. Bugs in other
programs you're running. Bugs absolutely anywhere but MS-Word 6.0.
It was only when marketshare started going to WordPerfect that they
decided that maybe they did have a few bugs.
> Netscape say they will support OpenDoc (whatever OpenDoc is
> supposed to be good for), but they haven't yet got a properly
> working version 2.
And Microsoft sneers at the idea of OpenDoc. I wonder why?
> MacOS is a brilliant OS and it is working perfectly on my LC III.
> Netscape 2.02 crashes simply because it's not well enough
> programmed. So you will have to see whatever it's worth that
> Netscape claims they will support OpenDoc. It's probably worth
> nothing, since Netscape is not going to manage to make it work!
Microsoft claims that they won't support OpenDoc, last I read.
> When you eventually get tired of restarting - try something else.
> I have been using MSIE 2.0 and then 2.0.1 for almost four months
> now, and it is a _REAL_ Macintosh application! It's reliable (as
> long as you don't use it too much for news) and it looks, works
> and feels like a Mac should.
I think you're taking much too simplistic an approach here. I
know some people who have had better luck with MSIE, and others
who have better luck with Netscape. By that I mean that Netscape
causes them less headaches than MSIE. If you'd actually read the
articles in this thread you'll find that some people have had
problems with whatever browser they are using. More people
would complain about Netscape if for no other reason than more
people *run* Netscape.
It'd be interesting to pin down what causes either one of these
to get into trouble, but knee-jerk reactions of "My app never
crashes and the competitor's app always crashes" are not going
to accomplish much of anything, particularly when the people
you are talking to know that the statement is not true.
---
Benjamin Ziff
>
> deleted..
>
>
To all of you people having crashes:
Try "Netscape Defrost". It is a small (9k) app and it's free. You can get
it from the Netscape Homepage that is accessible from your Netscape
screen. It will stop nearly all Netscape crashes.
-Ron
lac...@brookcot.u-net.com
Well, I started using Defrost a few days ago and my Netscape 2.02
misbehaves as before - after 10 to 90 mins of surfing it sends
requests for a www site as usual and the SD light on my modem pulses
but no reply, even to reliable sites that have loaded earlier. I have
to re-dial, or quit and re-launch Netscape, or even restart. This
happens *every* time I get on the Internet. Not much wonder the
non-enthusiast is wary of the Internet (and computers in general).
The Internet is wonderful in principle but is it ever buggy!
--
From UK
J. Keroes
Suggestions on ways to stop Netscape from freezing:
1. First and foremost: GET NETSCAPE 3.0! The new
compiler Netscape is using has smoothed out a
number of memory-related problems.
Little things that help; your distance may vary:
2. in the Memory control panel, turn off virtual
memory, the modern memory manager, and set your
disk cache to at least 1/32 of your installed RAM.
(e.g. for 16MB of RAM, set to 512K or higher)
3. Turn off any "fake" RAM programs, such as Ram-
Doubler, OptiMem, and any other that may have
...snuck onto your Mac.
4. Give Netscape more memory! plugins are greedy!
multimedia is greedy! more! more!
5. If you're using OT, try OT1.1.1b6; I've been
hearing good reports about it - just don't
forget to get the RELEASE version in a few
months!
Make sure that you're using AT LEAST version
2.0.6 of MacTCP, and 1.1 of Open Transport!
6. Another OT tip: in the Options, turn OFF the
"Load only when needed" checkbox.
Good Luck!
PS The Unofficial Mac Netscape Clinic will be
getting updated and moved from
http://www.reed.edu/~jkeroes/ to
http://www.imagina.com/clinic/ within the
month. Stay tuned!
J. Keroes
I wrote:
> Suggestions on ways to stop Netscape from freezing:
>
> hearing good reports about it - just don't
> forget to get the RELEASE version in a few
> months!
Please let me clarify: Try OT1.1.1b6 if you have an
ethernet connection. DON'T try it if you're a PPP-user.
That part's not quite done yet ;-)
_______ I m a g i n a - Mac solutions for Mac People _______
sysa...@imagina.com Mac-saavy, PC-saavy
hostm...@imagina.com UNIX-saavy, and can
webm...@imagina.com program a VCR too!!
sup...@imagina.com <http://www.imagina.com>
brian david grondin
>Suggestions on ways to stop Netscape from freezing:
>
*snip*
>4. Give Netscape more memory! plugins are greedy!
> multimedia is greedy! more! more!
I have found that Netscape doesn't give up RAM if you give it more than
the 9 meg suggested size. I am using RAMcharger 3 to monitor the
fragmentation and this behavior seems pretty consistent.
--
Brian David Grondin sig * smig * blah!
gron...@gold.tc.umn.edu 1517 LaSalle Avenue, #110
http://members.aol.com/grondin/ Minneapolis, MN 55403
Nightstrife/Jeff Campbell
Bud Kuenzli wrote:
>
> In article <4vbmpl$2...@usenet.rpi.edu>, Garance A Drosehn
> <g...@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> wrote:
>
> deleted..
>
> > to get into trouble, but knee-jerk reactions of "My app never
> > crashes and the competitor's app always crashes" are not going
> > to accomplish much of anything, particularly when the people
> > you are talking to know that the statement is not true.
> >
>
> days of 3.0 I have had no freezes, no crashes. Only time will tell..
I had numerous crash problems with Netscape 2.02 on my Mac <LCIII, a
68030/25Mhz with RD and 8 meg RAM, Sys7.5.3 w/OT1.1>. Then I deleted
all of my prefs and ran it all thetime for the last month with nary a
crash - unless I really pushed it and my Mac. It worked beautifully,
weven with lots of frames and Javascript, graphics, etc. <I do web
design, so...>
Tonight, I upgraded to v3.0... So far, after a few hours browsing,
there haven't been the uncountable crashes that I had when I was beta
testing v2.0... I'm what you could call a 'crash test' Mac user,
running beta-everything. But so far, so good... Runs pretty quick on
my little 68k too.
--
/
/\/ightstrife - night...@ncw.net / IRC: darchmare
/__________________________________________/_____________________
http://www.ncw.net/~nightstrife/index.html/ ...ignorance earns
PA support: " " /publicaddress.html'/ your right to go
________________________________________/ down in flames...
Do you seek web design excellence?
http://www.ncw.net/~nightstrife/mncwebdesign.html
Leigh
> I had numerous crash problems with Netscape 2.02 on my Mac <LCIII, a
> 68030/25Mhz with RD and 8 meg RAM, Sys7.5.3 w/OT1.1>.
Then I deleted all of my prefs and ran it all the time
>for the last month with nary a
> crash - unless I really pushed it and my Mac. It worked beautifully,
> weven with lots of frames and Javascript, graphics, etc. <I do web
> design, so...>
>
> /\/ightstrife - night...@ncw.net / IRC: darchmare
Nightstrife,
Good idea!!! Did you just delete Netscape's prefs? When you started
Netscape up again did Netscape rebuild its pref file? What did you do at
that time?
Leigh
David Southward
In article <321C64...@imagina.com>, u...@imagina.com wrote:
> I wrote:
> > Suggestions on ways to stop Netscape from freezing:
> >
> > 5. If you're using OT, try OT1.1.1b6; I've been
> > hearing good reports about it - just don't
> > forget to get the RELEASE version in a few
> > months!
>
> Please let me clarify: Try OT1.1.1b6 if you have an
> ethernet connection. DON'T try it if you're a PPP-user.
> That part's not quite done yet ;-)
>
>
> _______ I m a g i n a - Mac solutions for Mac People _______
> sysa...@imagina.com Mac-saavy, PC-saavy
> hostm...@imagina.com UNIX-saavy, and can
> webm...@imagina.com program a VCR too!!
> sup...@imagina.com <http://www.imagina.com>
My 7500 used to freeze no matter what browser I used -OT/PPP sorted that
problem completely -avoid FreePPP is my advice
David Southward
Chip Griffin
In article <DavidSouthward-...@aa089.du.pipex.com>,
DavidSo...@dial.pipex.com (David Southward) wrote:
>My 7500 used to freeze no matter what browser I used -OT/PPP sorted that
>problem completely -avoid FreePPP is my advice
So, what do you use then? I'd LOVE to loose the freezes ...
--
Chip Griffin - SysOp of the Quarry (860) 885-1488
President of Thames River Apple Users Group (TRAUG)
- qua...@q.continuum.net (preferred)
- gri...@gwsmtp.nu.com
http://q.continuum.net/~quarry/
Jane
"antifreeze for your Mac"??? It is found on an apple website and must be
dl'd which I don't know how to do yet... Jane
Chuck Dodge
> three questions to consider:
>
> 1. Is the Mac a PowerMac, or a 680x0 Mac?
> 2. Are you running with Virtual memory on, or off?
> 2b. I guess ... are you using RamDoubler?
> 3. Are you using Classic Appletalk, or OpenTransport?
> 3b. (if OpenTransport, which version?)
I have a Powermac 7500, OT 1.1.1b7, FreePPP 2.5v2, and VM off. I was
having constant (every 10 minutes or so) crashes, even after rebuilding
the desktop and running Norton Disk Doctor. I then switched TCP/IP from
"load when needed" to "load once" and my crashes have all but vanished.
Hope that helps,
Chuck Dodge
Benjamin Ziff
>
> What is the "Netscape defrost" extension I've heard about, supposedly
> "antifreeze for your Mac"??? It is found on an apple website and must be
> dl'd which I don't know how to do yet... Jane
Learn How. Netscape Defrost will stop 90% of your freezes & crashes. It is
small. It is free.
Open the Netscape Homepage that you can access from your Netscape screen.
Netscape defrost will be there in Hypertext. Cliuck on it and wait for the
download to complete. Put Netscape Defrost in the Netscape prefs folder on
your hard disk.
good luck
-Ron