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16-bit mode in Photoshop deactivates Photoshop's filters
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Robert Montgomery
Nov 28, 2011, 7:39:14 AM11/28/11
to
I recently began using Pro Photo color space as my standard color space
in Photoshop.
I learned by researching that the Pro Photo color space requires the
16-bit mode to accommodate the wider gamut afforded by Pro Photo..
I also learned by experimenting that 16-bit mode causes a problem
because it deactivates Photoshop's built-in filters, and that to
activate the filters, I have to reduce my images to 8-bit mode.
I suppose that reducing my images to 8-bit mode clips the gamut of my
images back to a gamut approximated Adobe RGB or sRGBIEC61966-2.1.
How can I retain the wider gamut provided by 16-bit mode while still
being able to use Photoshop's filters?
Robert
in Photoshop.
I learned by researching that the Pro Photo color space requires the
16-bit mode to accommodate the wider gamut afforded by Pro Photo..
I also learned by experimenting that 16-bit mode causes a problem
because it deactivates Photoshop's built-in filters, and that to
activate the filters, I have to reduce my images to 8-bit mode.
I suppose that reducing my images to 8-bit mode clips the gamut of my
images back to a gamut approximated Adobe RGB or sRGBIEC61966-2.1.
How can I retain the wider gamut provided by 16-bit mode while still
being able to use Photoshop's filters?
Robert
dorayme
Nov 28, 2011, 8:17:22 AM11/28/11
to
In article <javvdr$b9o$1...@dont-email.me>,
For many of the filters, I would be surprised if you gained
anything from being in more than 8-bit. But there are some
filters that are supported for 16-bit. There are also ways of
working to use the existing 8-bit filters on a layer and
combining later to 16-bit.
But you might be better off asking in a Photoshop usenet group.
--
dorayme
anything from being in more than 8-bit. But there are some
filters that are supported for 16-bit. There are also ways of
working to use the existing 8-bit filters on a layer and
combining later to 16-bit.
But you might be better off asking in a Photoshop usenet group.
--
dorayme
Robert Montgomery
Nov 28, 2011, 9:28:37 AM11/28/11
to
dorayme wrote:
> In article<javvdr$b9o$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Robert Montgomery<robe...@northern-data-tech-llc.com> wrote:
>
>> I recently began using Pro Photo color space as my standard color space
>> in Photoshop.
>>
>> I learned by researching that the Pro Photo color space requires the
>> 16-bit mode to accommodate the wider gamut afforded by Pro Photo..
>>
>> I also learned by experimenting that 16-bit mode causes a problem
>> because it deactivates Photoshop's built-in filters, and that to
>> activate the filters, I have to reduce my images to 8-bit mode.
>>
>> I suppose that reducing my images to 8-bit mode clips the gamut of my
>> images back to a gamut approximated Adobe RGB or sRGBIEC61966-2.1.
>>
>> How can I retain the wider gamut provided by 16-bit mode while still
>> being able to use Photoshop's filters?
>
> In article<javvdr$b9o$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Robert Montgomery<robe...@northern-data-tech-llc.com> wrote:
>
>> I recently began using Pro Photo color space as my standard color space
>> in Photoshop.
>>
>> I learned by researching that the Pro Photo color space requires the
>> 16-bit mode to accommodate the wider gamut afforded by Pro Photo..
>>
>> I also learned by experimenting that 16-bit mode causes a problem
>> because it deactivates Photoshop's built-in filters, and that to
>> activate the filters, I have to reduce my images to 8-bit mode.
>>
>> I suppose that reducing my images to 8-bit mode clips the gamut of my
>> images back to a gamut approximated Adobe RGB or sRGBIEC61966-2.1.
>>
>> How can I retain the wider gamut provided by 16-bit mode while still
>> being able to use Photoshop's filters?
>
But there are some
> filters that are supported for 16-bit. There are also ways of
> working to use the existing 8-bit filters on a layer and
> combining later to 16-bit.
>
> But you might be better off asking in a Photoshop usenet group.
Thanks, Dorayme.
> filters that are supported for 16-bit. There are also ways of
> working to use the existing 8-bit filters on a layer and
> combining later to 16-bit.
>
> But you might be better off asking in a Photoshop usenet group.
I thought it would be more helpful to ask here than in a Mac Photoshop
newsgroup because there are only 16 messages in the
alt.photoshop.macintosh newsgroup. Following your suggestion, I just
asked in alt.graphics.photoshop, which has 968 messages, but it's not
exclusively Mac-oriented.
Robert
dorayme
Nov 28, 2011, 4:36:35 PM11/28/11
to
In article <jb05rf$iii$1...@dont-email.me>,
For most PS queries, the platform is not so relevant and many
folks there (in your last mentioned) probably use Macs.
--
dorayme
folks there (in your last mentioned) probably use Macs.
--
dorayme
Robert Montgomery
Dec 14, 2011, 12:38:28 AM12/14/11
to
Savageduck wrote:
> On 2011-11-30 22:04:13 -0800, Robert Montgomery
> <robe...@northern-data-tech-llc.com> said:
>
>> Savageduck wrote:
>>> On 2011-11-21 14:57:40 -0800, Robert Montgomery
>>> <robe...@northern-data-tech-llc.com> said:
>>>
>>>> I recently learned that the Pro Photo color setting is better than the
>>>> sRBGIEC61966-2.1 color setting that I've been using for most of my
>>>> files, so I set up a new Pro Photo color setting.
>>>>
>>>> This has caused a problem: Every time I open a Photoshop image, a
>>>> window first opens that asks if I want to use the embadded profile
>>>> (sRGBIEC61966-2.1, or to convert the color setting to the working
>>>> setting, which is Pro Photo.
>>>>
>>>> The window shows that the radio button is on the setting for the file
>>>> being untagged, so I have to click on the button to choose the
>>>> embedded profile.
>>>>
>>>> What can I do to avoid this annoyance, and still benefit from the
>>>> wider gamut that Pro Photo will provide for my new pictures?
>>>>
>>>> Robert
>>>
>>> ProPhoto certainly gives you a wider gamut than Adobe RGB or sRGB.
>>>
>>> There are a few things one should consider when making that choice when
>>> editing in Photoshop.
>>> Most important consideration is going to be your output. Are you
working
>>> towards a print, or are you only going to have the resulting image
>>> viewed on a display.
>>
>> Both.
>
> OK! Though you should be able to print satisfactorily of your Epson
> printers I qualify that by asking which Epson printers you are talking
> about.
I'm printing with my Epson Stylus Pro 7600 and Epson Stylus Pro 2400.
> ...and while all you need for file resolution for screen display is
> 72ppi, 240-300ppi is going to be preferred for printing. I seldom go to
> 72ppi if the file I am using is going to serve both purposes. If the
> display file is going to be resized considerably smaller than the print
> size I will consider changing to 72ppi from 300ppi and in sRGB, you will
> not see the difference on a display.
>
> So given my usual practice I have an image I worked on in ProPhoto RGB,
> 16-bit and ended up with a final print size of 21.28MB 4950x3353 @
> 300ppi in 16-Bit ProPhoto RGB usually save as a PSD. That lets me print
> large on 19x13 paper, and if I want to I can obtain much larger
> commercial prints. To save that as a JPEG I have to go to 8-Bit.
>
> The JPEG file I produced for display viewing is about 260KB 867x1280
> @300ppi in 8-Bit sRGB and quite simply open in a browser. That is the
> image I shared in the post you responded to and can be found by clicking
> on the link at the bottom of this lengthy missive.
>
>>
>> What have you done to ensure color matching the
>>> work on your display to a standard output for display?
>>
>>
>> I've calibrated my monitor.
>
> Good!
>>
>> or matched with a
>>> printer & paper profile.
>>
>> In File > Print > Printer, I've selected the applicable printer (I
>> have two Epson inkjets.)
>
> It would be good to know models.
Epson 7600 and 2400.
>> In File > Print > Print Settings, I've chosen Color Settings > Epson
>> Color Controls, and
>>
>> In Print Setings > Media Type > I choose Watercolor Paper Radiant
>> White for Lyve canvas or Enhanced Matte for Somerset Velvet paper, and
>>
>> In View > Proof Setup, I check Lyve canvas or Somerset Velvet paper, and
>>
>> in View > Proof Colors, I've put a check mark, and
>>
>> In View, Gamut Warning, I've put a check mark.
>
> If you have done your work well, the gamut warning is only going to go
> haywire if you set the Rendering Intent to "Absolute Colorimetric".
This is something that confuses me. In View > Proof Setup > Custom, with
Device to Simulate set to sRGBIEC6196602.1, for example, (or Pro Photo)
the default rendering intent is Relative Colorometric. But when I go to
File > Print > Rendering Intent is set to Perceptual. I assume that
Perceptual takes precedence, but I don't know.
>
> When making my final prints I rarely have the Match Print Colors & Gamut
> Warning boxes checked.
>
>
> ...and there it is going to be a matter of whether you are using custom
> paper/printer profiles for Photoshop to control, or if you are letting
> the Epson driver handle things.
In File > Print > Color Handling, i have set it to Printer Manages Color.
And in File > Print > Print Settings, I have set Color Matching to
Epson Color Controls.
>>> For the most part any editing you do in ProPhoto colorspace will
have to
>>> be coverted to sRGB for consistent display or printing on most
printers.
>>> For some print work you might be required to use CMYK.
>>
>> I'm printing only on my two Epson inkjet printers.
>
> Fine. That makes thing simple.
But I find that when I start with RAW files I can't apply filters to
them because they're in 16-bit mode. If I convert the files to eight-bit
mode, then the advantage of the wider gamut provided by ProPhoto is
lost, so It appears that Pro Photo is useless, because I rely those
filters to alter my pictures.
> ...and there is the image of which I wrote.
>
>>> < http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/DSC_1726Gws.jpg >
Nice picture of a nice plane!
Robert
> On 2011-11-30 22:04:13 -0800, Robert Montgomery
> <robe...@northern-data-tech-llc.com> said:
>
>> Savageduck wrote:
>>> On 2011-11-21 14:57:40 -0800, Robert Montgomery
>>> <robe...@northern-data-tech-llc.com> said:
>>>
>>>> I recently learned that the Pro Photo color setting is better than the
>>>> sRBGIEC61966-2.1 color setting that I've been using for most of my
>>>> files, so I set up a new Pro Photo color setting.
>>>>
>>>> This has caused a problem: Every time I open a Photoshop image, a
>>>> window first opens that asks if I want to use the embadded profile
>>>> (sRGBIEC61966-2.1, or to convert the color setting to the working
>>>> setting, which is Pro Photo.
>>>>
>>>> The window shows that the radio button is on the setting for the file
>>>> being untagged, so I have to click on the button to choose the
>>>> embedded profile.
>>>>
>>>> What can I do to avoid this annoyance, and still benefit from the
>>>> wider gamut that Pro Photo will provide for my new pictures?
>>>>
>>>> Robert
>>>
>>> ProPhoto certainly gives you a wider gamut than Adobe RGB or sRGB.
>>>
>>> There are a few things one should consider when making that choice when
>>> editing in Photoshop.
>>> Most important consideration is going to be your output. Are you
working
>>> towards a print, or are you only going to have the resulting image
>>> viewed on a display.
>>
>> Both.
>
> OK! Though you should be able to print satisfactorily of your Epson
> printers I qualify that by asking which Epson printers you are talking
> about.
I'm printing with my Epson Stylus Pro 7600 and Epson Stylus Pro 2400.
> ...and while all you need for file resolution for screen display is
> 72ppi, 240-300ppi is going to be preferred for printing. I seldom go to
> 72ppi if the file I am using is going to serve both purposes. If the
> display file is going to be resized considerably smaller than the print
> size I will consider changing to 72ppi from 300ppi and in sRGB, you will
> not see the difference on a display.
>
> So given my usual practice I have an image I worked on in ProPhoto RGB,
> 16-bit and ended up with a final print size of 21.28MB 4950x3353 @
> 300ppi in 16-Bit ProPhoto RGB usually save as a PSD. That lets me print
> large on 19x13 paper, and if I want to I can obtain much larger
> commercial prints. To save that as a JPEG I have to go to 8-Bit.
>
> The JPEG file I produced for display viewing is about 260KB 867x1280
> @300ppi in 8-Bit sRGB and quite simply open in a browser. That is the
> image I shared in the post you responded to and can be found by clicking
> on the link at the bottom of this lengthy missive.
>
>>
>> What have you done to ensure color matching the
>>> work on your display to a standard output for display?
>>
>>
>> I've calibrated my monitor.
>
> Good!
>>
>> or matched with a
>>> printer & paper profile.
>>
>> In File > Print > Printer, I've selected the applicable printer (I
>> have two Epson inkjets.)
>
> It would be good to know models.
Epson 7600 and 2400.
>> In File > Print > Print Settings, I've chosen Color Settings > Epson
>> Color Controls, and
>>
>> In Print Setings > Media Type > I choose Watercolor Paper Radiant
>> White for Lyve canvas or Enhanced Matte for Somerset Velvet paper, and
>>
>> In View > Proof Setup, I check Lyve canvas or Somerset Velvet paper, and
>>
>> in View > Proof Colors, I've put a check mark, and
>>
>> In View, Gamut Warning, I've put a check mark.
>
> If you have done your work well, the gamut warning is only going to go
> haywire if you set the Rendering Intent to "Absolute Colorimetric".
This is something that confuses me. In View > Proof Setup > Custom, with
Device to Simulate set to sRGBIEC6196602.1, for example, (or Pro Photo)
the default rendering intent is Relative Colorometric. But when I go to
File > Print > Rendering Intent is set to Perceptual. I assume that
Perceptual takes precedence, but I don't know.
>
> When making my final prints I rarely have the Match Print Colors & Gamut
> Warning boxes checked.
>
>
> ...and there it is going to be a matter of whether you are using custom
> paper/printer profiles for Photoshop to control, or if you are letting
> the Epson driver handle things.
In File > Print > Color Handling, i have set it to Printer Manages Color.
And in File > Print > Print Settings, I have set Color Matching to
Epson Color Controls.
>>> For the most part any editing you do in ProPhoto colorspace will
have to
>>> be coverted to sRGB for consistent display or printing on most
printers.
>>> For some print work you might be required to use CMYK.
>>
>> I'm printing only on my two Epson inkjet printers.
>
> Fine. That makes thing simple.
But I find that when I start with RAW files I can't apply filters to
them because they're in 16-bit mode. If I convert the files to eight-bit
mode, then the advantage of the wider gamut provided by ProPhoto is
lost, so It appears that Pro Photo is useless, because I rely those
filters to alter my pictures.
> ...and there is the image of which I wrote.
>
>>> < http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/DSC_1726Gws.jpg >
Nice picture of a nice plane!
Robert
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