More (G)Mail crap

[Wes Groleau]

I don't know whether to blame this on Mail, on auto-save, or on GMail,
but whoever it is, they are really stupid!

Last night, I spent about twelve minutes replying to an email.

Today, I happened to look in the Trash folder. There are more than two
dozen versions of the message in there. Apparently, every time I pause
in typing, and every time I correct a typo, a version is saved, not in
Drafts, but in Trash.

STUPID AND IRRITATING !!!!!

--
Wes Groleau

You're all individuals!
Yes, we're all individuals!
You're all different!
Yes, we are all different!
I'm not!
("Life of Brian")

[Kevin McMurtrie]

In article <jh95ud$kd4$1...@dont-email.me>,

Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> I don't know whether to blame this on Mail, on auto-save, or on GMail,
> but whoever it is, they are really stupid!
>
> Last night, I spent about twelve minutes replying to an email.
>
> Today, I happened to look in the Trash folder. There are more than two
> dozen versions of the message in there. Apparently, every time I pause
> in typing, and every time I correct a typo, a version is saved, not in
> Drafts, but in Trash.
>
> STUPID AND IRRITATING !!!!!

Mail periodically saves and deletes in Drafts. You may have some config
on Google to never really delete messages. Besides that, check that
your IMAP Path Prefix (Accounts:Advanced) is correct or it will act
strangely.

Doesn't your ISP have IMAP? I consider everything by Google to be an
experiment in scalability and marketing rather than actual products.
Use at your own risk, for there's nobody to contact there if something
goes wrong.
--
I will not see posts from Google because I must filter them as spam

[Wes Groleau]

On 02-12-2012 16:00, Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
> Doesn't your ISP have IMAP? I consider everything by Google to be an

My ISP is Comcast. And the only other option is worse: Frontier.

[dorayme]

In article <4f382859$0$11998$742e...@news.sonic.net>,

Kevin McMurtrie <mcmu...@pixelmemory.us> wrote:

> In article <jh95ud$kd4$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:
>
> > I don't know whether to blame this on Mail, on auto-save, or on GMail,
> > but whoever it is, they are really stupid!
> >
> > Last night, I spent about twelve minutes replying to an email.
> >
> > Today, I happened to look in the Trash folder. There are more than two
> > dozen versions of the message in there. Apparently, every time I pause
> > in typing, and every time I correct a typo, a version is saved, not in
> > Drafts, but in Trash.
> >
> > STUPID AND IRRITATING !!!!!
>
> Mail periodically saves and deletes in Drafts.

Perhaps this is irritating because sometimes one needs to take a
glance in the bin before emptying it to check one is not throwing out
valuable stuff - so many saved draft instances would make it harder?

I would be more than irritated if the kitchen took executive decisions
to fill the bin with stuff, even if I did not need it, if it made it
harder to throw out (by making the bin heavy) or affected the
operation to the kitchen (stinking to high heaven and infecting the
food being prepared or stored).

But if it threw out stuff one need know nothing about and arranged to
empty itself at least of the stuff the kitchen decided to save. So...
when I move to Lion, I might have to have a Wish 5001 that has a
discriminatory auto emptying of trash contents.

--
dorayme

[Jolly Roger]

In article <jh9bqk$lqu$1...@dont-email.me>,

Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> On 02-12-2012 16:00, Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
> > Doesn't your ISP have IMAP? I consider everything by Google to be an
>
> My ISP is Comcast. And the only other option is worse: Frontier.

I'm about to move to a city/state where those two are my only option.
From what I've read, Comcast is the better choice there as well. So be
it.

--
Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me.
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM
filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google
Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.

JR

[J.J. O'Shea]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 16:43:47 -0500, Wes Groleau wrote
(in article <jh9bqk$lqu$1...@dont-email.me>):

> On 02-12-2012 16:00, Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
>> Doesn't your ISP have IMAP? I consider everything by Google to be an
>
> My ISP is Comcast. And the only other option is worse: Frontier.
>
>

Because of the sheer stupidity of my ISP (BellSloth, a.k.a. AT&T) and because
of the direction that GMail is going, I am going to get a domain of my own
and park my very own SMTP and POP3/IMAP servers on it. Frankly, I've had it
with BellSloth (how bad are they? They changed their name to AT&T to try to
get out from under their reputation. It didn't work.) and everything Google
is getting worse.

--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.

[Howard]

Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> I don't know whether to blame this on Mail, on auto-save, or on GMail,
> but whoever it is, they are really stupid!
>
> Last night, I spent about twelve minutes replying to an email.
>
> Today, I happened to look in the Trash folder. There are more than two
> dozen versions of the message in there. Apparently, every time I pause
> in typing, and every time I correct a typo, a version is saved, not in
> Drafts, but in Trash.
>
> STUPID AND IRRITATING !!!!!

Read this and it may help.

http://tidbits.com/article/10253

Howard

[Wes Groleau]

On 02-13-2012 10:31, Jolly Roger wrote:
> I'm about to move to a city/state where those two are my only option.
> From what I've read, Comcast is the better choice there as well. So be
> it.

I was on Comcast years ago as well. Back then, their tech support
couldn't even spell DNS nor figure out if there was life after 95.

I tolerated it for a while, but when I showed logs to security proving a
Nimda was busily scanning the world from one of there addresses, and
they were either unable or unwilling to stop it, I fired them.

Last year I fired Frontier for similar incompetence. I had SNR and
power level measurements proving that the fault was in the hardware
at their end of the wire and they continued to insist that I should reboot.

Pleased to find that Comcast's tech support is now tolerable.
Notice I did not say great.

[Wes Groleau]

On 02-13-2012 13:29, Howard wrote:
> Read this and it may help.
>
> http://tidbits.com/article/10253

Read it a long time ago. It didn't help.
If you look closely, the guy reveals that it is for an older version of
GMail and won't work now. Sure enough, it doesn't. The solution, is
to buy his book for the current version. I declined. Google's
instructions improved things a little, but they still suck.

I'm starting to get fed up with providers of my webserver, too, so
perhaps I'll find one that actually won't get in my way on any of this
stuff.

[Howard]

Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> On 02-13-2012 13:29, Howard wrote:
> > Read this and it may help.
> >
> > http://tidbits.com/article/10253
>
> Read it a long time ago. It didn't help.
> If you look closely, the guy reveals that it is for an older version of
> GMail and won't work now. Sure enough, it doesn't. The solution, is
> to buy his book for the current version. I declined. Google's
> instructions improved things a little, but they still suck.
>
> I'm starting to get fed up with providers of my webserver, too, so
> perhaps I'll find one that actually won't get in my way on any of this
> stuff.

Well I had the same problem with duplicate drafst and solved it through
that article.

Best of luck.

Howard

[Wes Groleau]

On 02-13-2012 21:46, Howard wrote:
> Well I had the same problem with duplicate drafst and solved it through
> that article.

You know, I just might try it again. I don't remember exactly what
happened, but I remember that it sucked.

But it sucks now, so the question is, which sucks worse? :-)

--
Wes Groleau

A UNIX signature isn't a return address, it's the ASCII equivalent
of a black velvet clown painting. It's a rectangle of carets
surrounding a quote from a literary giant of weeniedom like
Heinlein or Dr. Who.
— Chris Maeda
Ha, ha, Dr. ..... Who's Chris Maeda?
— Wes Groleau

[Jolly Roger]

In article <jhcemk$gbt$1...@dont-email.me>,

Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> On 02-13-2012 10:31, Jolly Roger wrote:
> > I'm about to move to a city/state where those two are my only option.
> > From what I've read, Comcast is the better choice there as well. So be
> > it.
>
> I was on Comcast years ago as well. Back then, their tech support
> couldn't even spell DNS nor figure out if there was life after 95.
>
> I tolerated it for a while, but when I showed logs to security proving a
> Nimda was busily scanning the world from one of there addresses, and
> they were either unable or unwilling to stop it, I fired them.
>
> Last year I fired Frontier for similar incompetence. I had SNR and
> power level measurements proving that the fault was in the hardware
> at their end of the wire and they continued to insist that I should reboot.
>
> Pleased to find that Comcast's tech support is now tolerable.
> Notice I did not say great.

They can't be all that much worse than my current ISP, Time Warner. : )
Most American ISPs suck ass. Sad state of things in the U.S.A.

[Paul Sture]

On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 00:31:21 -0600, Jolly Roger wrote:

> In article <jhcemk$gbt$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:
>
>> On 02-13-2012 10:31, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> > I'm about to move to a city/state where those two are my only option.
>> > From what I've read, Comcast is the better choice there as well. So
>> > be
>> > it.
>>
>> I was on Comcast years ago as well. Back then, their tech support
>> couldn't even spell DNS nor figure out if there was life after 95.
>>
>> I tolerated it for a while, but when I showed logs to security proving
>> a Nimda was busily scanning the world from one of there addresses, and
>> they were either unable or unwilling to stop it, I fired them.
>>
>> Last year I fired Frontier for similar incompetence. I had SNR and
>> power level measurements proving that the fault was in the hardware at
>> their end of the wire and they continued to insist that I should
>> reboot.
>>
>> Pleased to find that Comcast's tech support is now tolerable. Notice I
>> did not say great.
>
> They can't be all that much worse than my current ISP, Time Warner. : )
> Most American ISPs suck ass. Sad state of things in the U.S.A.

If it's like the stories I've heard from the UK it's a race to the
bottom. These companies seem to think that the only factor people
consider is price and cut the support accordingly.



--
Paul Sture

[Paul Sture]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 18:39:14 -0800, Michael Vilain wrote:

> I did just this back in 1997. A shared webhost with a commercial
> quality mail server with almost unlimited accounts and quota is
> remarkably cheap. I use a2hosting and dreamhost is also very good.

I did this in 2008. Shared webhost, unlimited subdomains (useful for
testing) and unlimited email addresses.

The performance isn't what it started out as, but it's perfectly
acceptable for the price I'm paying.

--
Paul Sture

[Erilar]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> In article <jhcemk$gbt$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:
>
>> On 02-13-2012 10:31, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> I'm about to move to a city/state where those two are my only option.
>>> From what I've read, Comcast is the better choice there as well. So be
>>> it.
>>
>> I was on Comcast years ago as well. Back then, their tech support
>> couldn't even spell DNS nor figure out if there was life after 95.
>>
>> I tolerated it for a while, but when I showed logs to security proving a
>> Nimda was busily scanning the world from one of there addresses, and
>> they were either unable or unwilling to stop it, I fired them.
>>
>> Last year I fired Frontier for similar incompetence. I had SNR and
>> power level measurements proving that the fault was in the hardware
>> at their end of the wire and they continued to insist that I should reboot.
>>
>> Pleased to find that Comcast's tech support is now tolerable.
>> Notice I did not say great.
>
> They can't be all that much worse than my current ISP, Time Warner. : )
> Most American ISPs suck ass. Sad state of things in the U.S.A.

Interesting. My ISP is my local cable/phone company. They don't offer some
things my daughter's Comcast does, but their tech support is good and can
even be live. I"m happy.

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist with iPad

[Jolly Roger]

In article <jhefrs$fbi$2...@dont-email.me>,

Your definition of "good" probably differs greatly from mine.

[Richard Maine]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> In article <jhefrs$fbi$2...@dont-email.me>,
> Erilar <dra...@chibardun.netinvalid> wrote:
>
> > Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> > > They can't be all that much worse than my current ISP, Time Warner. : )
> > > Most American ISPs suck ass. Sad state of things in the U.S.A.
> >
> > Interesting. My ISP is my local cable/phone company. They don't offer
> > some things my daughter's Comcast does, but their tech support is good
> > and can even be live. I"m happy.
>
> Your definition of "good" probably differs greatly from mine.

That was much my thought on reading that.

My "local" phone company is ATT. I'm thankful that getting VOIP via
Vonage allowed me to stop doing business with ATT. About the only thing
good I can say about ATT is that they are probably no worse than the
other "local" phone company in this area (Verizon). That's not saying
much very good, though.

And my "local" cable company (and ISP) is Time Warner. If I had an
alternative that was up to the level of "pretty bad", I'd jump as that
would be an improvement.

--
Richard Maine | Good judgment comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment.
domain: summertriangle | -- Mark Twain

[Erilar]

Richard Maine <nos...@see.signature> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <jhefrs$fbi$2...@dont-email.me>,
>> Erilar <dra...@chibardun.netinvalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>>>> They can't be all that much worse than my current ISP, Time Warner. : )
>>>> Most American ISPs suck ass. Sad state of things in the U.S.A.
>>>
>>> Interesting. My ISP is my local cable/phone company. They don't offer
>>> some things my daughter's Comcast does, but their tech support is good
>>> and can even be live. I"m happy.
>>
>> Your definition of "good" probably differs greatly from mine.
>
> That was much my thought on reading that.
>
> My "local" phone company is ATT. I'm thankful that getting VOIP via
> Vonage allowed me to stop doing business with ATT. About the only thing
> good I can say about ATT is that they are probably no worse than the
> other "local" phone company in this area (Verizon). That's not saying
> much very good, though.
>
> And my "local" cable company (and ISP) is Time Warner. If I had an
> alternative that was up to the level of "pretty bad", I'd jump as that
> would be an improvement.

Mine is none of the huge companies, but as far as I can tell, the only
thing I lack is "on demand" offerings. I don't intend to split my "package"
to switch to one of the monsters I keep reading complaints about just to
watch Dr. Who.

[Jamie Kahn Genet]

Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> I don't know whether to blame this on Mail, on auto-save, or on GMail,
> but whoever it is, they are really stupid!
>
> Last night, I spent about twelve minutes replying to an email.
>
> Today, I happened to look in the Trash folder. There are more than two
> dozen versions of the message in there. Apparently, every time I pause
> in typing, and every time I correct a typo, a version is saved, not in
> Drafts, but in Trash.
>
> STUPID AND IRRITATING !!!!!

A new draft is saved every 30 seconds and old copies are trashed. It is
to workaround a bug in certain IMAP clients and really no big deal. I
mean how often are you just browsing your trash mailbox? I don't think
I've opened my trash mailbox in months. You're not making the mistake of
using trash as storage (even temporary), are you? The trash in OSX or
Mail is a way to undo a mistake. It's not intended to be a holding area
for files/emails you're undecided about keeping.

My point being in the gentlest possible way - why is this even an issue
for you?
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

[J.J. O'Shea]

On Thu, 16 Feb 2012 13:53:08 -0500, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote
(in article <1kflmx3.nbzbiw1xjfkqtN%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>):

Very simply this:

Ever since I have done _anything_ on a computer, going back to when I used
Apple IIs in the 1970s, I have opened older files, made a few changes, and
saved them under a new name. this _keeps the original file intact_ while at
the same time _giving me a new copy, with my changes_. If the system updates
my old copy _without asking my permission to do this_ then _I will have made
changes to the old, original file, which I do not want to do_. I do not mind
the system saving changes to a working file; MS Word, for just one example,
has been doing that for literal decades. I really, really, REALLY don't want
the system to change my original without my permission. If it asks and I say
yes, that's one thing. If it just goes ahead and makes the change without
asking, that's another thing entirely.

I have stopped using Pages and other Apple-produced apps for exactly this
reason.

No, I don't care that the system does something or the other in the Trash. I
do care that Pages, specifically, messes with my old files when I don't want
it to, and that it can't do a simple 'save as' anymore without unnecessary
gymnastics. If it saved things to a working file, and if it had, as an option
'save as', I wouldn't give a damn about Versions, or AutoSave, or any of
that. Apple has elected to remove 'save as' from their apps. I have elected
to move to MS Office.

As for the specific problem the OP has, Mail/Gmail playing with outgoing
email: I have not seen this.

[Wes Groleau]

On 02-16-2012 13:53, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
> to workaround a bug in certain IMAP clients and really no big deal. I
> mean how often are you just browsing your trash mailbox? I don't think
> I've opened my trash mailbox in months. You're not making the mistake of
> using trash as storage (even temporary), are you? The trash in OSX or
> Mail is a way to undo a mistake. It's not intended to be a holding area
> for files/emails you're undecided about keeping.

Exactly. And not one of those umpteen dozen drafts is a mistake.
Wasted space. And if and when I make a mistake (first time for
everything) I shouldn't have to dig it out of a hundred unnecessary
copies of a mail that should be long gone.

--
Wes Groleau

“It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it
goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the
world.”
— Thomas Jefferson

[Jamie Kahn Genet]

Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> On 02-16-2012 13:53, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
> > to workaround a bug in certain IMAP clients and really no big deal. I
> > mean how often are you just browsing your trash mailbox? I don't think
> > I've opened my trash mailbox in months. You're not making the mistake of
> > using trash as storage (even temporary), are you? The trash in OSX or
> > Mail is a way to undo a mistake. It's not intended to be a holding area
> > for files/emails you're undecided about keeping.
>
> Exactly. And not one of those umpteen dozen drafts is a mistake.
> Wasted space. And if and when I make a mistake (first time for
> everything) I shouldn't have to dig it out of a hundred unnecessary
> copies of a mail that should be long gone.

Well no offence, but it seems like you're worrying about something that
by your own admission is so rare, it ought not to give pause.

[Wes Groleau]

What is rare is having to find something in the trash.

What is not rare is the waste of disk space caused by Apple using the
Trash folder as an UnDo buffer and not cleaning it up when the mail has
been sent.

On the other hand, I ANAL doesn't always refer to the legal profession.

--
Wes Groleau

“Missing a train is only painful if you run after it!”
— Nassim Nicholas Taleb