A free GUI software replacement for SMARTreporter for Mac OS X?

[Ant]

Hello.

I used to use old SMARTreporter in Mac OS X 10.5.8, but it is not
freeware anymore for v3.x. I am trying to find a replacement for Mac OS
X 10.8.5.

Currently, I am trying to figure out if this old external USB2 Seagate
500 GB HDD is going bad since it failed to mount its MacFS partition
drive (FAT32 partition drive mounted fine). I am currently running Mac
OS X 10.8.5's Disk Utility to repair it, and it is taking forever
(wished it had technical texts or something to tell me what is going
on). That doesn't sound good so far. :(

I am still surprised that
http://gsmartcontrol.sourceforge.net/home/index.php/Downloads does not
have a compiled binary file for Mac OS X. Does a free one GUI SMART
program exist today?

Thank you in advance. :)
--
"A centipede is an ant made to Canadian/government specs." --unknown
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

[Ant]

On 8/16/2014 4:59 PM PT, Ant typed:

> Currently, I am trying to figure out if this old external USB2 Seagate
> 500 GB HDD is going bad since it failed to mount its MacFS partition
> drive (FAT32 partition drive mounted fine). I am currently running Mac
> OS X 10.8.5's Disk Utility to repair it, and it is taking forever
> (wished it had technical texts or something to tell me what is going
> on). That doesn't sound good so far. :(

FYI. Mac OS X 10.8.5's Disk Utility said it couldn't repair and told me
to back up data, but I could not if I could not access its partition
drive! So, I decided to format that partition drive and recheck since it
is for Time Machine. It was fine. Now, I am doing a 125 GB backup from
13.3" MacBook Pro. Although, it seems slow. Hmm!
--
"Ants can lift up to 50 times their own weight. And your monitor is
missing. Time to bring out the bugspray." --BBspot's Geek Horoscopes
(2/28/2003)

[nospam]

In article <lsKdnc8t-dbsbXLO...@earthlink.com>, Ant

<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> Hello.
>
> I used to use old SMARTreporter in Mac OS X 10.5.8, but it is not
> freeware anymore for v3.x. I am trying to find a replacement for Mac OS
> X 10.8.5.
>
> Currently, I am trying to figure out if this old external USB2 Seagate
> 500 GB HDD is going bad since it failed to mount its MacFS partition
> drive (FAT32 partition drive mounted fine). I am currently running Mac
> OS X 10.8.5's Disk Utility to repair it, and it is taking forever
> (wished it had technical texts or something to tell me what is going
> on). That doesn't sound good so far. :(

unless you need the data, reformat it.

if you do need the data, get diskwarrior.

as for smart, that won't work over usb unless the usb enclosure
supports it which is not that common and non-standard.

apple's disk utility will show the smart status of supported drives, as
in internal.

[Ant]

On 8/16/2014 5:20 PM PT, Ant typed:

>> Currently, I am trying to figure out if this old external USB2 Seagate
>> 500 GB HDD is going bad since it failed to mount its MacFS partition
>> drive (FAT32 partition drive mounted fine). I am currently running Mac
>> OS X 10.8.5's Disk Utility to repair it, and it is taking forever
>> (wished it had technical texts or something to tell me what is going
>> on). That doesn't sound good so far. :(
>
> FYI. Mac OS X 10.8.5's Disk Utility said it couldn't repair and told me
> to back up data, but I could not if I could not access its partition
> drive! So, I decided to format that partition drive and recheck since it
> is for Time Machine. It was fine. Now, I am doing a 125 GB backup from
> 13.3" MacBook Pro. Although, it seems slow. Hmm!

Here's Disk Utility's log FYI:
...
**********
2014-08-16 16:20:38 -0700: Disk Utility started.

2014-08-16 16:20:52 -0700: Verifying volume “MacsOnlyAndBackupsWithBigFiles”
2014-08-16 16:20:52 -0700: Starting verification tool:
2014-08-16 16:20:52 -0700: Checking file system2014-08-16 16:20:52
-0700: Error: This disk needs to be repaired. Click Repair
Disk.2014-08-16 16:20:52 -0700:
2014-08-16 16:20:52 -0700: Disk Utility stopped verifying
“MacsOnlyAndBackupsWithBigFiles”: This disk needs to be repaired. Click
Repair Disk.
2014-08-16 16:21:23 -0700:

2014-08-16 16:21:28 -0700: Verify and Repair volume
“MacsOnlyAndBackupsWithBigFiles”
2014-08-16 16:21:28 -0700: Starting repair tool:
2014-08-16 16:21:28 -0700: Checking file system2014-08-16 16:21:28
-0700: Volume repair complete.2014-08-16 16:21:28 -0700: Updating boot
support partitions for the volume as required.2014-08-16 17:02:22 -0700:
Error: Disk Utility can’t repair this disk. Back up as many of your
files as possible, reformat the disk, and restore your backed-up
files.2014-08-16 17:02:22 -0700:
2014-08-16 17:02:22 -0700: Disk Utility stopped repairing
“MacsOnlyAndBackupsWithBigFiles”: Disk Utility can’t repair this disk.
Back up as many of your files as possible, reformat the disk, and
restore your backed-up files.
2014-08-16 17:02:22 -0700:

2014-08-16 17:07:20 -0700: Preparing to erase :
“MacsOnlyAndBackupsWithBigFiles”
2014-08-16 17:07:20 -0700: Partition Scheme: GUID Partition Table
2014-08-16 17:07:20 -0700: 1 volume will be erased
2014-08-16 17:07:20 -0700: Name : “MacsOnlyAndBackupsWithBigFiles”
2014-08-16 17:07:20 -0700: Size : 250.05 GB
2014-08-16 17:07:20 -0700: File system : Mac OS Extended (Journaled)

2014-08-16 17:07:20 -0700: Unmounting disk
2014-08-16 17:07:21 -0700: Erasing
2014-08-16 17:07:29 -0700: Initialized /dev/rdisk1s2 as a 233 GB HFS
Plus volume with a 24576k journal

2014-08-16 17:07:29 -0700: Mounting disk
2014-08-16 17:07:29 -0700: Erase complete.
2014-08-16 17:07:29 -0700:
**********
2014-08-16 17:08:40 -0700: Disk Utility started.

2014-08-16 17:09:00 -0700: Verifying volume “MacsOnlyAndBackupsWithBigFiles”
2014-08-16 17:09:00 -0700: Starting verification tool:
2014-08-16 17:09:01 -0700: Checking file system2014-08-16 17:09:01
-0700: Checking Journaled HFS Plus volume.
2014-08-16 17:09:01 -0700: Checking extents overflow file.
2014-08-16 17:09:01 -0700: Checking catalog file.
2014-08-16 17:09:05 -0700: Checking multi-linked files.
2014-08-16 17:09:05 -0700: Checking catalog hierarchy.
2014-08-16 17:09:05 -0700: Checking extended attributes file.
2014-08-16 17:09:11 -0700: Checking volume bitmap.
2014-08-16 17:09:11 -0700: Checking volume information.
2014-08-16 17:09:11 -0700: The volume MacsOnlyAndBackupsWithBigFiles
appears to be OK.
2014-08-16 17:09:11 -0700: Repair tool completed:
2014-08-16 17:09:11 -0700:
2014-08-16 17:09:11 -0700:
...

Back up is sure slow (17.5 GB out of 126.1 GB now). :/
--
"We are closer to the ants than to butterflies. Very few people can
endure much leisure." --Gerald Brenan

[Ant]

On 8/16/2014 5:29 PM PT, nospam typed:

> unless you need the data, reformat it.

Yeah, I had to do that and it is only for Time Machine's back ups. :(

> if you do need the data, get diskwarrior.

Is there a freeware type like DiskWarrior?

> as for smart, that won't work over usb unless the usb enclosure
> supports it which is not that common and non-standard.
>
> apple's disk utility will show the smart status of supported drives, as
> in internal.

Bummer. :(
--
..."Like me with the anthill in my backyard. I spent days watching the
ants, trying to figure out which ones were good, and which ones were
bad, but they all just looked like ants, so I started smiting all of
them." "Well that's not --" "I was smiting them with the garden hose,
and with lighter fluid, and with the lawnmower, and to be perfectly
honest, I think I went a little crazy with the shovel. Those ants could
have been praying to me all day, I wouldn't have heard them." "There was
nothing they could do about it." "But, I don't think --" "Really, it's
the same with us. There's nothing we can do about anything either, so
why worry about it? Hey, this is making me feel better." "Well, that's
good, but --" "I guess all we can do is live our lives with as much
kindness and decency as possible, and try not to dwell on God standing
over us with a giant shovel."...--Dewey and Teacher in Day Care episode
from Malcolm in the Middle

[nospam]

In article <du-dne1Gwr6eZHLO...@earthlink.com>, Ant

<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> > if you do need the data, get diskwarrior.
>
> Is there a freeware type like DiskWarrior?

if your data is not worth what diskwarrior costs, then just reformat it.

apple disk utility might fix some things but it's nowhere near as
thorough.

[Ant]

On 8/16/2014 5:57 PM PT, Michael Vilain typed:

> In article <du-dnfJGwr42ZXLO...@earthlink.com>,

> Slow backup probably means the drive is failing. Since you already
> destroyed the data on the Mac partition, I get whatever else is on the
> FAT partition and replace it. It's on it's way out.

Well, it is almost done now. Three/3 minutes left. I wished there was an
easy to way to check the disk like its SMART status. Bah.


> Then again, hammering it with backups will make it fail all that much
> faster.

Funny, I only back up usually once a week! :O
--
"I used to command a battalion of German ants." --Tom

[Ant]

On 8/16/2014 5:43 PM PT, nospam typed:

>>> if you do need the data, get diskwarrior.
>>
>> Is there a freeware type like DiskWarrior?
>
> if your data is not worth what diskwarrior costs, then just reformat it.
>
> apple disk utility might fix some things but it's nowhere near as
> thorough.

Aren't there other non-Apple and non-DiskWarrior disk utilities out
there that are free?
--
"I go out of my way to avoid stepping on ants." --Terry McGovern,
daughter of Senator George and Eleanor McGovern, subject of the book
"Terry by her father"

[nospam]

In article <9dOdnSaEGMtmmm3O...@earthlink.com>, Ant

<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> Well, it is almost done now. Three/3 minutes left. I wished there was an
> easy to way to check the disk like its SMART status. Bah.

smart doesn't tell you much, although if it says it's bad, it's almost
certainly bad. if it doesn't say anything, you don't know if it is fine
or will suddenly fail tomorrow.

[nospam]

In article <9dOdnSGEGMvclW3O...@earthlink.com>, Ant

<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> >>> if you do need the data, get diskwarrior.
> >>
> >> Is there a freeware type like DiskWarrior?
> >
> > if your data is not worth what diskwarrior costs, then just reformat it.
> >
> > apple disk utility might fix some things but it's nowhere near as
> > thorough.
>
> Aren't there other non-Apple and non-DiskWarrior disk utilities out
> there that are free?

obviously your data is not valuable.

you can save even more money by not getting backup drives.

[Ant]

On 8/16/2014 6:44 PM PT, nospam typed:

> smart doesn't tell you much, although if it says it's bad, it's almost
> certainly bad. if it doesn't say anything, you don't know if it is fine
> or will suddenly fail tomorrow.

That sucks. :(

Anyways, the full Time Machine back up (finish/complet)ed. I even tried
(eject/unmount)ing both drives, physically disconnecting, and
reconnecting to do another Time Machine backup (tiny). It had no
problems. I am curious what the frak happened to make the HDD's Mac
partition drive unreadable. The last time I connected the HDD was last
week's Saturday to do a big (1 GB?) Time Machine backup. Is this related
to that Time Machine getting corrupted that was mentioned a while back?
--
"Ants can destroy a tree. Therefore this ant can destroy a tree."
--Logic & Fallacy

[Ant]

On 8/16/2014 6:44 PM PT, nospam typed:

> you can save even more money by not getting backup drives.

Not getting backup drives? Then, how would I back up? :P
--
"Why eat ants when an uncle will do?" --Tymoutta Aardvarka of Sarcastica

[Your Name]

In article <9dOdnSGEGMvclW3O...@earthlink.com>, Ant
<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> On 8/16/2014 5:43 PM PT, nospam typed:
> >>>
> >>> if you do need the data, get diskwarrior.
> >>
> >> Is there a freeware type like DiskWarrior?
> >
> > if your data is not worth what diskwarrior costs, then just reformat it.
> >
> > apple disk utility might fix some things but it's nowhere near as
> > thorough.
>
> Aren't there other non-Apple and non-DiskWarrior disk utilities out
> there that are free?

I wouldn't bother. Like pretty much everything with "smart" in it's
name, the "SMART" gimmick on hard drives is virtually useless and
certainly won't stop a drive suddenly going dead on you with no
warning.

There probably is freeware / shareware Mac disk utlilies, but I haven't
used them so I can't say whether or not they're any good or
trustworthy.

[nospam]

In article <G5WdnQmjGqK6kG3O...@earthlink.com>, Ant

<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> > you can save even more money by not getting backup drives.
>
> Not getting backup drives? Then, how would I back up? :P

you're insistence of free data recovery software indicates that your
data is not worth anything, so why waste time and money backing it up?

[Ant]

On 8/16/2014 7:27 PM PT, Michael Vilain typed:

>>> you can save even more money by not getting backup drives.
>>
>> Not getting backup drives? Then, how would I back up? :P
>

> I'm sure someone going to say "use the Cloud", but that's may not solve
> your use-case. And it's not free but a regular on-going cost.
>
> http://lifehacker.com/five-best-online-backup-services-1006345049

I don't trust the cloud. Plus, backing up that much data with a slow
Internet connection? Ouch!
--
"Hey dad, look. I put honey on my back, and now the ants are carrying me
home." --Chris from Family Guy

[Ant]

Just for kicks, I decided to connect this old USB2 Seagate FreeAgent G
portable HDD to my Debian/Linux box to run gsmartctl, but it couldn't
read SMART data with gsmartctl. I tried my very old, updated Windows XP
Pro SP3 machine and it had no problems with gsmartctl.

I ran its short tests and no problems. I ran its 2.22... hours long
tests, but it (fail/abort)ed within a few minutes. Maybe I shouldn't be
multitasking? Can someone please kindly review what the logs say?

smartctl 5.43 2012-06-30 r3573 [i686-w64-mingw32-xp-sp3] (sf-5.43-1)
Copyright (C) 2002-12 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Seagate Momentus 5400.6
Device Model: ST9500325AS
Serial Number: 5VE6....
LU WWN Device Id: 5 000c50 01e168ff3
Firmware Version: 0002BSM1
User Capacity: 500,107,862,016 bytes [500 GB]
Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical
Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: 8
ATA Standard is: ATA-8-ACS revision 4
Local Time is: Sat Aug 16 19:44:58 2014 PDT
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status: (0x00) Offline data collection activity
was never started.
Auto Offline Data Collection: Disabled.
Self-test execution status: ( 25) The self-test routine was aborted by
the host.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection: ( 0) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities: (0x73) SMART execute Offline immediate.
Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
Suspend Offline collection upon new
command.
No Offline surface scan supported.
Self-test supported.
Conveyance Self-test supported.
Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
power-saving mode.
Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported.
General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 1) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 138) minutes.
Conveyance self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes.
SCT capabilities: (0x103b) SCT Status supported.
SCT Error Recovery Control supported.
SCT Feature Control supported.
SCT Data Table supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE
UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 118 099 006 Pre-fail
Always - 190207303
3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0003 099 098 000 Pre-fail
Always - 0
4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 020 Old_age
Always - 325
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 036 Pre-fail
Always - 0
7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f 064 060 030 Pre-fail
Always - 2635639
9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
Always - 66
10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 100 097 Pre-fail
Always - 0
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 037 020 Old_age
Always - 230
184 End-to-End_Error 0x0032 100 100 099 Old_age Always
- 0
187 Reported_Uncorrect 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
188 Command_Timeout 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
189 High_Fly_Writes 0x003a 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022 062 057 045 Old_age Always
- 38 (Min/Max 32/38)
191 G-Sense_Error_Rate 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 9
193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 1715
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 038 043 000 Old_age Always
- 38 (0 17 0 0 0)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 047 045 000 Old_age Always
- 190207303
197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0010 100 100 000 Old_age
Offline - 0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x003e 200 200 000 Old_age Always
- 0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num Test_Description Status Remaining
LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error
# 1 Extended offline Aborted by host 90% 66
-
# 2 Extended offline Aborted by host 90% 65
-
# 3 Conveyance offline Completed without error 00% 65
-
# 4 Short offline Completed without error 00% 65
-

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
1 0 0 Not_testing
2 0 0 Not_testing
3 0 0 Not_testing
4 0 0 Not_testing
5 0 0 Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

Thank you in advance. :)
--

"... Ooh, we haven't done that in a long time. I love picnics. I'll
bring my ant jar." --The Berenstain Bears (unknown episode)

[Jolly Roger]

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.mac.apps.]

On 2014-08-17, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> On 8/16/2014 5:43 PM PT, nospam typed:
>
>>>> if you do need the data, get diskwarrior.
>>>
>>> Is there a freeware type like DiskWarrior?
>>
>> if your data is not worth what diskwarrior costs, then just reformat it.
>>
>> apple disk utility might fix some things but it's nowhere near as
>> thorough.
>
> Aren't there other non-Apple and non-DiskWarrior disk utilities out
> there that are free?

Why bother? If Disk Utility can't fix it, then a quick Erase will wipe
it clean so you can start fresh (assuming the hard drive hasn't
physically failed). Then you can restore from backup, if needed.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[bi...@mix.com]

In comp.sys.mac.system Ant <a...@zimage.comant> wrote:

> Can someone please kindly review what the logs say?

Step number one for this would be posting it without wrapping.

Billy Y..
--
sub #'9+1 ,r0 ; convert ascii byte
add #9.+1 ,r0 ; to an integer
bcc 20$ ; not a number

[bi...@mix.com]

In comp.sys.mac.system Michael Vilain <vil...@nospamcop.net> wrote:

> Slow backup probably means the drive is failing.

Looking at the media defect management (bad block replacement) stats
would be useful. Maybe they're in the data alrady posted (probably
not, though).

[isw]

In article <160820142029151245%nos...@nospam.invalid>,

SMARTReporter has a plug-in (OS-X-SAT-SMART-Driver, on GitHub) that lets
it check the status of USB-mounted drives. I'm using it with a cheap
SATA-USB adapter from eBay.

Ant: I'm running SMARTReporter 2.7.2 on 10.8.2; works fine.

Isaac

[nospam]

In article <isw-6A08D0.21410916082014@[216.168.3.50]>, isw

<i...@witzend.com> wrote:

> > as for smart, that won't work over usb unless the usb enclosure
> > supports it which is not that common and non-standard.
>
> SMARTReporter has a plug-in (OS-X-SAT-SMART-Driver, on GitHub) that lets
> it check the status of USB-mounted drives. I'm using it with a cheap
> SATA-USB adapter from eBay.
>
> Ant: I'm running SMARTReporter 2.7.2 on 10.8.2; works fine.

<https://github.com/kasbert/OS-X-SAT-SMART-Driver>
The driver requires a SAT (SCSI ATA Translation) capable external
drive enclosure.

[Ant]

On 8/16/2014 9:27 PM PT, bi...@MIX.COM typed:

>> Slow backup probably means the drive is failing.
>
> Looking at the media defect management (bad block replacement) stats
> would be useful. Maybe they're in the data alrady posted (probably
> not, though).

Where could I find that to share?
--
"Size isn't everything. The whale is endangered, while the ant continues
to do just fine." --Bill Vaughan

[Ant]

On 8/16/2014 9:24 PM PT, bi...@MIX.COM typed:

>> Can someone please kindly review what the logs say?
>
> Step number one for this would be posting it without wrapping.

It's not wordwrapped for me and using a fixed width font (Courier).
http://pastie.org/pastes/9480044/text?key=pobkfapngwcv81hrsg6wa if you
want a web page format.
--
"Do not kill ants. They are your best friends." --Joe Brainard

[bi...@mix.com]

In comp.sys.mac.system Ant <a...@zimage.comant> wrote:

> I am curious what the frak happened to make the HDD's Mac
> partition drive unreadable.

Most likely some problem (bug) in the filesystem. You'd
have to ask someone like Al Whipple (author of DiskWarrior)
if you wanted accurate info on all the things that can go
wrong.

[bi...@mix.com]

> Looking at the media defect management (bad block replacement) stats
> would be useful.

This doesn't look so bad -

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH

5 Reallocated_Sector_Count 0x0033 100 100 036

Nor does this -

1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 118 099 006

So... You probably got hit by some HFS+ bug.

[Ant]

On 8/17/2014 7:38 AM PT, bi...@MIX.COM typed:

> In comp.sys.mac.system Ant <a...@zimage.comant> wrote:
>
>> I am curious what the frak happened to make the HDD's Mac
>> partition drive unreadable.
>
> Most likely some problem (bug) in the filesystem. You'd
> have to ask someone like Al Whipple (author of DiskWarrior)
> if you wanted accurate info on all the things that can go
> wrong.

It sounds like a known issue? If so, then is it online somewhere to read
about it?
--
"Above ground I shall be food for kites; below I shall be food for
mole-crickets and ants. Why rob one to feed the other?" --Juang-zu (4th
Century B.C.)

[Ant]

On 8/17/2014 8:25 AM PT, bi...@MIX.COM typed:

>> Looking at the media defect management (bad block replacement) stats
>> would be useful.
>
> This doesn't look so bad -
>
> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH
> 5 Reallocated_Sector_Count 0x0033 100 100 036
>
> Nor does this -
>
> 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 118 099 006
>
> So... You probably got hit by some HFS+ bug.

Interesting. I'd like to know about bug. I assume it can happen with
internal drives too?

FYI, I ran the (lat/new)est SeaTools for Windows overnight on this HDD
and it passed most tests. I didn't run its Advanced one that could lose
data (will try it later on if I run into problems again).
--
"When an ant gets wings, it loses its head." --Bosnian Proverb

[bi...@mix.com]

In comp.sys.mac.system Ant <a...@zimage.comant> wrote, quoting me:

> > Most likely some problem (bug) in the filesystem. You'd
> > have to ask someone like Al Whipple (author of DiskWarrior)
> > if you wanted accurate info on all the things that can go
> > wrong.
>
> It sounds like a known issue? If so, then is it online somewhere
> to read about it?

There is some info in comp.sys.mac.system, which includes
mentioning this -

The state of the file system
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7/12/

Digging up Alsoft's patent application(s), if they're
available, would probably be enlightening, too.

[Ant]

On 8/17/2014 10:27 AM PT, bi...@MIX.COM typed:

>>> Most likely some problem (bug) in the filesystem. You'd
>>> have to ask someone like Al Whipple (author of DiskWarrior)
>>> if you wanted accurate info on all the things that can go
>>> wrong.
>>
>> It sounds like a known issue? If so, then is it online somewhere
>> to read about it?
>
> There is some info in comp.sys.mac.system, which includes
> mentioning this -
>
> The state of the file system
> http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7/12/
>
> Digging up Alsoft's patent application(s), if they're
> available, would probably be enlightening, too.

Thanks! That's scary and a very old issue. :(
--
"Ants die in sugar." --Malawi

[Ant]

On 8/17/2014 8:55 AM PT, Ant typed:

>>> Looking at the media defect management (bad block replacement) stats
>>> would be useful.
>>
>> This doesn't look so bad -
>>
>> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH
>> 5 Reallocated_Sector_Count 0x0033 100 100 036
>>
>> Nor does this -
>>
>> 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 118 099 006
>>
>> So... You probably got hit by some HFS+ bug.
>
> Interesting. I'd like to know about bug. I assume it can happen with
> internal drives too?
>
> FYI, I ran the (lat/new)est SeaTools for Windows overnight on this HDD
> and it passed most tests. I didn't run its Advanced one that could lose
> data (will try it later on if I run into problems again).

I decided to try advanced tools for kicks, but it gave me "USB Erase
tracks" and "Firmware Update" options. Um, no thanks to erasing unless
the HDD is having serious issues which I don't see after formatting and
doing a full Time Machine backup yesterday. No newer firmware found too.

Also, I tried
http://www.seagate.com/support/downloads/item/seagate-diag-mac-master/
but it didn't work in Mac OS X 10.5.8 (doesn't see the drive at all). I
noticed the web page says 10.4.11.x. That's pretty old. I guess it is
incompatible? How do I could not find a way to remove the software
beside throwing its .app into trash can, and it added something to cause
a reboot to update its cache. :(
--
"Ants can attack with a grain of rice." --a Malagasy Proverb

[bi...@mix.com]

In comp.sys.mac.system Ant <a...@zimage.comant> wrote:

> http://www.seagate.com/support/downloads/item/seagate-diag-mac-master/

> How do I could not find a way to remove the software beside
> throwing its .app into trash can, and it added something to
> cause a reboot to update its cache. :(

Go to /System/Library/Extensions and delete these two drivers -

MaxtorPowSecDriver.kext
SeagatePowSecDriver.kext

You should also look in /tmp/drvrinstall and if you see copies
there, delete those as well. If you even see the directory...

Then reboot. I don't think you can unload drivers on a live
OS X system.

Besdies the application itself (Seagate Diagnostics.app) there
is probably a preferences file for it, too.

[Ant]

On 8/17/2014 1:39 PM PT, bi...@MIX.COM typed:

>> http://www.seagate.com/support/downloads/item/seagate-diag-mac-master/
>
>> How do I could not find a way to remove the software beside
>> throwing its .app into trash can, and it added something to
>> cause a reboot to update its cache. :(
>
> Go to /System/Library/Extensions and delete these two drivers -
>
> MaxtorPowSecDriver.kext

Did not see this one.

> SeagatePowSecDriver.kext

Deleted it.

> You should also look in /tmp/drvrinstall and if you see copies
> there, delete those as well. If you even see the directory...

Not there.

> Then reboot. I don't think you can unload drivers on a live
> OS X system.
>
> Besdies the application itself (Seagate Diagnostics.app) there
> is probably a preferences file for it, too.

Thanks. :)
--
"Look not to the windmill's turning while the ant still burrows." --unknown

[Jolly Roger]

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.mac.apps.]
On 2014-08-17, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>

> Also, I tried
> http://www.seagate.com/support/downloads/item/seagate-diag-mac-master/
> but it didn't work in Mac OS X 10.5.8 (doesn't see the drive at all).
> I noticed the web page says 10.4.11.x. That's pretty old. I guess it
> is incompatible? How do I could not find a way to remove the software
> beside throwing its .app into trash can, and it added something to
> cause a reboot to update its cache. :(

If you want to see the files that a given Mac installer places onto your
system, simply run the installer (or in this case, the PKG file), and
choose File > Show Files from the installer menu bar.

Alternatively, you can use the 'lsbom' command-line tool to see the same
list of files (as shown below).

Note that the listing you get shows files included in the installer
package, and won't mention any files that are created by installer
scripts in the package. Also, installer scripts may move some of the
files into different file system locations after the files are extracted
(in this case, the kernel extension (kext) is apparently moved into
/System/Library/Extensions by an installer script). That being said, in
general, the most important files are listed, which is sufficient for
the purposes of uninstalling manually.

Here's what I get for this particular installer package (I have omitted
the contents of the app and kext directories for brevity):

# lsbom -s Seagate\ Diagnostics.pkg/Contents/Archive.bom

./Applications/Seagate Diagnostics.app
./System/Library/Extensions
./tmp/drvrInstall/MaxtorPowSecDriver.kext
./tmp/drvrInstall/SeagatePowSecDriver.kext

[Ant]

On 8/17/2014 2:49 PM PT, Jolly Roger typed:

Thanks for the tips! :D
--
"The foreign policy aim of ants can be summed up as follows: restless
aggression, territorial conquest, and genocidal annihilation of
neighboring colonies whenever possible. If ants had nuclear weapons,
they would probably end the world in a week." --Journey to the Ants,
page 59. Bert Holldobler & Edward O. Wilson

[android]

In article <G5WdnQmjGqK6kG3O...@earthlink.com>,
Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> On 8/16/2014 6:44 PM PT, nospam typed:
> > you can save even more money by not getting backup drives.
>
> Not getting backup drives? Then, how would I back up? :P

U can save time tooo by not doing that B U thing. Time is money. Get
rich quick: Ditch your computer in the recycling bin!!! ;-ppp
--
teleportation kills
http://tinyurl.com/androidphotography

[bi...@mix.com]

In comp.sys.mac.system Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> If you want to see the files that a given Mac installer places onto your
> system, simply run the installer (or in this case, the PKG file), and
> choose File > Show Files from the installer menu bar.
>
> Alternatively, you can use the 'lsbom' command-line tool to see the same
> list of files (as shown below).

I like Pacifist - http://www.charlessoft.com - but, since it costs US$20,
and even though it's really easy to use, I didn't suggest it to Ant.

[Ant]

> > I am curious what the frak happened to make the HDD's Mac
> > partition drive unreadable.

> Most likely some problem (bug) in the filesystem. You'd
> have to ask someone like Al Whipple (author of DiskWarrior)
> if you wanted accurate info on all the things that can go
> wrong.

I contacted someone (not Al) from DiskWarrior team and got this e-mail
re(ply/sponse):

Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 16:33:37 -0500
From: Alsoft Technical Support <tech.s...@alsoft.com>
To: Ant...
Subject: Re: Mac FS bugs?
X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail version 6.1 build 4643 English (intel)
<http://www.ctmdev.com>

A partition map can become unreadable due to bad blocks on the drive
(causing part of the partition map to be unreadable), an improperly
ejected/disconnected drive at which point data is mistakenly written
over the partition map, or a malfunctioning drive chassis which causes
the partition map to be overwritten. Further, a utility that live
partitions or reformats a drive can also write an incorrect partition
map.

-- Marc


As you can see, he never mentioned a MacFS. :/
--
Quote of the Week: "Everyone knows an ant can't move a rubber tree
plant." --Motto of FTL Foundation (in Isaac Asimov book)
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)

/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |

\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail. If crediting,
( ) then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

[Ant]

> > > you can save even more money by not getting backup drives.
> >
> > Not getting backup drives? Then, how would I back up? :P

> U can save time tooo by not doing that B U thing. Time is money. Get
> rich quick: Ditch your computer in the recycling bin!!! ;-ppp

Or as my computer friend says, "Ants should not be using computers."
If no computers, then what would I be doing? :P

[Ant]

> > Aren't there other non-Apple and non-DiskWarrior disk utilities out
> > there that are free?

> Why bother? If Disk Utility can't fix it, then a quick Erase will wipe
> it clean so you can start fresh (assuming the hard drive hasn't
> physically failed). Then you can restore from backup, if needed.

That was a backup (Time Machine). I had to redo back up as a new full
one after doing a quick erase. We'll see how this one goes. I know Time
Machine has been doing almost weekly back ups since mid-2012. So far, no
repeats...

[Jolly Roger]

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.mac.apps.]

On 2014-08-18, Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
>
> I contacted someone (not Al) from DiskWarrior team and got this e-mail
> re(ply/sponse):
>
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 16:33:37 -0500
> From: Alsoft Technical Support <tech.s...@alsoft.com>
> To: Ant...
> Subject: Re: Mac FS bugs?
> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail version 6.1 build 4643 English (intel)
> <http://www.ctmdev.com>
>
> A partition map can become unreadable due to bad blocks on the drive
> (causing part of the partition map to be unreadable), an improperly
> ejected/disconnected drive at which point data is mistakenly written
> over the partition map, or a malfunctioning drive chassis which causes
> the partition map to be overwritten. Further, a utility that live
> partitions or reformats a drive can also write an incorrect partition
> map.
>
> -- Marc
>
>
> As you can see, he never mentioned a MacFS. :/

So? He's not wrong about anything he said. As I recall, this is a USB
drive, is it not? It's entirely possible (perhaps even probable) that a
disruption in USB connectivity caused the corruption you experienced.

[Jolly Roger]

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.mac.apps.]

On 2014-08-18, Ant <ANT...@zimage.com> wrote:
>
>> Why bother? If Disk Utility can't fix it, then a quick Erase will wipe
>> it clean so you can start fresh (assuming the hard drive hasn't
>> physically failed). Then you can restore from backup, if needed.
>
> That was a backup (Time Machine). I had to redo back up as a new full
> one after doing a quick erase.

Yep, that's what I've done in the past.

[android]

In article <vfidnfTQMZTn6m_O...@earthlink.com>,

ANT...@zimage.com (Ant) wrote:

> > > > you can save even more money by not getting backup drives.
> > >
> > > Not getting backup drives? Then, how would I back up? :P
>
> > U can save time tooo by not doing that B U thing. Time is money. Get
> > rich quick: Ditch your computer in the recycling bin!!! ;-ppp
>
> Or as my computer friend says, "Ants should not be using computers."
> If no computers, then what would I be doing? :P

Analog television?

[Ant]

On 8/18/2014 9:45 PM PT, android typed:
> Analog television?

I still have and use my 19.5" Sharp CRT TV from January 1996. :)
--
"Bother," said Winnie the Pooh, as the ants devoured him.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)

/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |

[Ant]

On 8/18/2014 6:09 PM PT, Jolly Roger typed:

> So? He's not wrong about anything he said. As I recall, this is a USB
> drive, is it not? It's entirely possible (perhaps even probable) that a
> disruption in USB connectivity caused the corruption you experienced.

USB2. Disruption like what? I do properly unmount the drive by dragging
the HDD icons into Mac OS X's trash can.
--
"Oh, good morning, my little worker ants! That's just a figure of
speech; I would NEVER compare you to insects. At least not after that
sensitivity training seminar those maggots at the network forced me to
attend!" --Kay, Murphy Brown
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)

/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |

[Ant]

On 8/18/2014 6:11 PM PT, Jolly Roger typed:

>>> Why bother? If Disk Utility can't fix it, then a quick Erase will wipe
>>> it clean so you can start fresh (assuming the hard drive hasn't
>>> physically failed). Then you can restore from backup, if needed.
>>
>> That was a backup (Time Machine). I had to redo back up as a new full
>> one after doing a quick erase.
>
> Yep, that's what I've done in the past.

Wow, how often did that happen? Was it exactly like my issue? If so,
then I wonder how common this problem is. :/
--
"The tiny ant dares to enter the lion's ear." --Armenian
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)

/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |

[android]

In article <IMSdnRpskMQldm_O...@earthlink.com>,

Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> On 8/18/2014 9:45 PM PT, android typed:
> > Analog television?
>
> I still have and use my 19.5" Sharp CRT TV from January 1996. :)

Are you a black or a white ant? On that late night show that is...

[Ant]

On 8/18/2014 11:55 PM PT, android typed:

> In article <IMSdnRpskMQldm_O...@earthlink.com>,
> Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>
>> On 8/18/2014 9:45 PM PT, android typed:
>>> Analog television?
>>
>> I still have and use my 19.5" Sharp CRT TV from January 1996. :)
>
> Are you a black or a white ant? On that late night show that is...

Which late night show? I used to watch Arsenio, Jay Leno, Conan O'Brien
(Coco), Letterman, etc. a lot when I was a teen(ager). Now, I just watch
clips online. As for colors, I am of all colors but I prefer red. :P
--
"What do ants and bees use for cattle?" --Tom

[android]

In article <Z9udnV6KcrP0hG7O...@earthlink.com>,

Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> On 8/18/2014 11:55 PM PT, android typed:
>
> > In article <IMSdnRpskMQldm_O...@earthlink.com>,
> > Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> >
> >> On 8/18/2014 9:45 PM PT, android typed:
> >>> Analog television?
> >>
> >> I still have and use my 19.5" Sharp CRT TV from January 1996. :)
> >
> > Are you a black or a white ant? On that late night show that is...
>
> Which late night show? I used to watch Arsenio, Jay Leno, Conan O'Brien
> (Coco), Letterman, etc. a lot when I was a teen(ager). Now, I just watch
> clips online. As for colors, I am of all colors but I prefer red. :P

You're obviously not in the know.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2014-08-19, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> On 8/18/2014 6:11 PM PT, Jolly Roger typed:
>
>>>> Why bother? If Disk Utility can't fix it, then a quick Erase will wipe
>>>> it clean so you can start fresh (assuming the hard drive hasn't
>>>> physically failed). Then you can restore from backup, if needed.
>>>
>>> That was a backup (Time Machine). I had to redo back up as a new full
>>> one after doing a quick erase.
>>
>> Yep, that's what I've done in the past.
>
> Wow, how often did that happen? Was it exactly like my issue? If so,
> then I wonder how common this problem is. :/

It happened to me exactly twice - both times with a USB connected hard
drive that lost its connection to my MacBook Pro while mounted on the
file system. Erasing the volume and doing a new backup fixed the problem
temporarily until the next USB issue arose. After this happening twice,
I moved the drive to a Firewire-powered enclosure, and it never happened
again with that drive/laptop. The problem wasn't caused by HFS+ nor Time
Machine, but by a faulty USB connection.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2014-08-19, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> On 8/18/2014 6:09 PM PT, Jolly Roger typed:
>> So? He's not wrong about anything he said. As I recall, this is a USB
>> drive, is it not? It's entirely possible (perhaps even probable) that a
>> disruption in USB connectivity caused the corruption you experienced.
>
> USB2. Disruption like what? I do properly unmount the drive by dragging
> the HDD icons into Mac OS X's trash can.

Like an improperly seated USB connector, or a faulty cable, or perhaps
by a low power situation on the USB bus, where the drive demanded more
power than could be delivered on that connection. This is a common problem for
some hard drives that need more power during some stages of operation
than some USB ports supply, which is why you see some portable USB hard
drives sold with USB cables that can be plugged into two USB ports for
additional power:

<http://tinyurl.com/kvpytt3>

Any disruption of the connection while the volume is mounted and writing
can cause corruption, whatever the reason for the disconnect. That's
simply the nature of externally connected drives.

[bi...@mix.com]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> So? He's not wrong about anything he said. As I recall, this is a USB
> drive, is it not? It's entirely possible (perhaps even probable) that a
> disruption in USB connectivity caused the corruption you experienced.

In my work I write massive amounts of data to external devices.
Would I even think about using USB for that? No. I will provide
USB CF card _readers_ for PC-based edit systems, but that's about it.

If you've got a newer Mac that doesn't have Firewire, use Thunderbolt.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2014-08-19, bi...@MIX.COM <bi...@MIX.COM> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> So? He's not wrong about anything he said. As I recall, this is a USB
>> drive, is it not? It's entirely possible (perhaps even probable) that a
>> disruption in USB connectivity caused the corruption you experienced.
>
> In my work I write massive amounts of data to external devices.
> Would I even think about using USB for that? No. I will provide
> USB CF card _readers_ for PC-based edit systems, but that's about it.
>
> If you've got a newer Mac that doesn't have Firewire, use Thunderbolt.

After having my own bad experience with corruption due to USB
connectivity issues, I share your sentiments. I avoid USB in favor of
Firewire/Thunderbolt for portable drives.

[isw]

In article <c5h4l8...@mid.individual.net>,

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2014-08-19, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> > On 8/18/2014 6:09 PM PT, Jolly Roger typed:
> >> So? He's not wrong about anything he said. As I recall, this is a USB
> >> drive, is it not? It's entirely possible (perhaps even probable) that a
> >> disruption in USB connectivity caused the corruption you experienced.
> >
> > USB2. Disruption like what? I do properly unmount the drive by dragging
> > the HDD icons into Mac OS X's trash can.
>
> Like an improperly seated USB connector, or a faulty cable, or perhaps
> by a low power situation on the USB bus, where the drive demanded more
> power than could be delivered on that connection. This is a common problem for
> some hard drives that need more power during some stages of operation
> than some USB ports supply, which is why you see some portable USB hard
> drives sold with USB cables that can be plugged into two USB ports for
> additional power:
>
> <http://tinyurl.com/kvpytt3>
>
> Any disruption of the connection while the volume is mounted and writing
> can cause corruption, whatever the reason for the disconnect. That's
> simply the nature of externally connected drives.

I can't think of anything about USB connectors that would make them
fundamentally less reliable than, say, FireWire or SATA. They can all be
plugged in improperly, and none of them is safe against an accidental
yank (Ahh for the days when cables were firehoses and connectors had
jackscrews). And faulty cables and connectors are problems that plague
all of them equally.

Discounting USB because it sometimes can't provide sufficient power is
not a connection issue, so much as an RTFM one -- the data sheet on the
drive will tell you what it needs, and you fail to provide it at your
peril. It's like criticizing standard AC connectors because you once
plugged a 20 Amp. device into a 15 Amp. circuit and the breaker blew.

Isaac

[nospam]

In article <isw-2FE0E6.09562719082014@[216.168.3.50]>, isw

<i...@witzend.com> wrote:

> > >> So? He's not wrong about anything he said. As I recall, this is a USB
> > >> drive, is it not? It's entirely possible (perhaps even probable) that a
> > >> disruption in USB connectivity caused the corruption you experienced.
> > >
> > > USB2. Disruption like what? I do properly unmount the drive by dragging
> > > the HDD icons into Mac OS X's trash can.
> >
> > Like an improperly seated USB connector, or a faulty cable, or perhaps
> > by a low power situation on the USB bus, where the drive demanded more
> > power than could be delivered on that connection. This is a common problem
> > for
> > some hard drives that need more power during some stages of operation
> > than some USB ports supply, which is why you see some portable USB hard
> > drives sold with USB cables that can be plugged into two USB ports for
> > additional power:
> >
> > <http://tinyurl.com/kvpytt3>
> >
> > Any disruption of the connection while the volume is mounted and writing
> > can cause corruption, whatever the reason for the disconnect. That's
> > simply the nature of externally connected drives.
>
> I can't think of anything about USB connectors that would make them
> fundamentally less reliable than, say, FireWire or SATA. They can all be
> plugged in improperly, and none of them is safe against an accidental
> yank (Ahh for the days when cables were firehoses and connectors had
> jackscrews). And faulty cables and connectors are problems that plague
> all of them equally.

there isn't any.

the plugs and cables are all very reliable unless they're cheap crappy
ones but then that's what you would expect with cheap crappy cables.

the problem in the above link is insufficient power to spin up the
drive, not data corruption issues.

older usb ports could only source 500ma, which is why many of them came
with dual cables. modern usb 2 ports and usb 3 can source more power,
so it's no longer an issue.

> Discounting USB because it sometimes can't provide sufficient power is
> not a connection issue, so much as an RTFM one -- the data sheet on the
> drive will tell you what it needs, and you fail to provide it at your
> peril. It's like criticizing standard AC connectors because you once
> plugged a 20 Amp. device into a 15 Amp. circuit and the breaker blew.

basically, other than no fuse blows.

[Jolly Roger]

Nobody is blaming anything. The fact is portable USB drives that require
multiple USB ports for proper operation are an inconvenience when
compared to Firewire or Thunderblot which provide sufficient power with
a single cable and therefore doesn't suffer from such complications.
Like it or not, there are valid reasons why I prefer Firewire or
Thunderbolt for portable hard drive connections. Why do you care so much
which I prefer?

[Ant]

> > >> On 8/18/2014 9:45 PM PT, android typed:
> > >>> Analog television?
> > >>
> > >> I still have and use my 19.5" Sharp CRT TV from January 1996. :)
> > >
> > > Are you a black or a white ant? On that late night show that is...
> >
> > Which late night show? I used to watch Arsenio, Jay Leno, Conan O'Brien
> > (Coco), Letterman, etc. a lot when I was a teen(ager). Now, I just watch
> > clips online. As for colors, I am of all colors but I prefer red. :P

> You're obviously not in the know.

Eh?

--
Quote of the Week: "Everyone knows an ant can't move a rubber tree
plant." --Motto of FTL Foundation (in Isaac Asimov book)

/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)

/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |

\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail. If crediting,

( ) then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

[Ant]

> It happened to me exactly twice - both times with a USB connected hard
> drive that lost its connection to my MacBook Pro while mounted on the
> file system. Erasing the volume and doing a new backup fixed the problem
> temporarily until the next USB issue arose. After this happening twice,
> I moved the drive to a Firewire-powered enclosure, and it never happened
> again with that drive/laptop. The problem wasn't caused by HFS+ nor Time
> Machine, but by a faulty USB connection.

Interesting. I wonder if you would still have that problem with other FS
like NTFS, EXT4, etc. with other OSes. I have seen people's external
HDDs get unreadable drives and check disk programs (e.g., Windows'
chkdsk.exe) fixed them. I always thought they didn't unmount/eject their
drives correctly.

--
Quote of the Week: "Everyone knows an ant can't move a rubber tree
plant." --Motto of FTL Foundation (in Isaac Asimov book)

/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)

/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |

\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail. If crediting,

( ) then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

[isw]

In article <190820141900548795%timst...@greenbee.net>,

Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:

> In article <isw-2FE0E6.09562719082014@[216.168.3.50]>, isw
> <i...@witzend.com> wrote:
>

> > I can't think of anything about USB connectors that would make them
> > fundamentally less reliable than, say, FireWire or SATA. They can all be
> > plugged in improperly, and none of them is safe against an accidental
> > yank (Ahh for the days when cables were firehoses and connectors had
> > jackscrews).
>

> Er, no thanks.

>
> > Discounting USB because it sometimes can't provide sufficient power is
> > not a connection issue, so much as an RTFM one -- the data sheet on the
> > drive will tell you what it needs, and you fail to provide it at your
> > peril.
>

> I'm a user. I see a USB plug and a USB socket. I expect that things
> will work as expected if I plug one into the other.

And you can treat standard AC connections the same way, and they'll work
*almost* all the time, but once in a while, the breaker will disagree.
Same with USB.

> I don't have a data
> sheet (none provided with the device),

Google is your friend.

>and the socket has nothing on it to indicate a power limit.

No, but the USB spec does.

Isaac

[isw]

In article <c5hf59...@mid.individual.net>,

I don't, but I think you're being a bit unfair for criticizing the USB
connector (and the associated electronics) for simply complying with the
published specification.

As you likely will recall, I'm primarily a hardware guy. Knowing about
specs, and current limits, and power draws, is second nature to me. I've
run a lot of disk drives, both SATA and PATA, using USB adapters, and
never had a problem like yours. I check the specs, and if the drive
wants more than the 0.5 Amp. limit that a USB port is required to
supply, I just use an external power supply for the disk.

Isaac

[Jolly Roger]

On 2014-08-20, isw <i...@witzend.com> wrote:
>
> I don't, but I think you're being a bit unfair for criticizing the USB
> connector (and the associated electronics) for simply complying with the
> published specification.

There are plenty of other reasons I dislike USB, all of which play into
my personal decision to avoid it for mass storage use. This is just one
of them.

> As you likely will recall, I'm primarily a hardware guy. Knowing about
> specs, and current limits, and power draws, is second nature to me. I've
> run a lot of disk drives, both SATA and PATA, using USB adapters, and
> never had a problem like yours. I check the specs, and if the drive
> wants more than the 0.5 Amp. limit that a USB port is required to
> supply, I just use an external power supply for the disk.

While I'm sure that must be very nice for you, some of us don't carry
power cables everywhere we go, just in case we *might* need one, and
would rather use a different technology that doesn't have this pitfall.
And there's absolutely nothing "unfair" about this - it's just the way
it is.

[Paul Sture]

On 2014-08-19, isw <i...@witzend.com> wrote:
>

> I can't think of anything about USB connectors that would make them
> fundamentally less reliable than, say, FireWire or SATA. They can all be
> plugged in improperly, and none of them is safe against an accidental
> yank (Ahh for the days when cables were firehoses and connectors had
> jackscrews). And faulty cables and connectors are problems that plague
> all of them equally.

It's been a long time since I looked at this but IIRC the data
transmission and error correction capability of the Firewire standard
itself is better than USB.

Firewire is a subset of Fibre Channel, which is used in heavy duty server
applications.

--
If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail
If you own a jackhammer, every problem looks like hours of fun