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Re: MailForge dead
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David Morrison
Jan 16, 2014, 5:50:09 PM1/16/14
to
In article <160120141013101700%timst...@greenbee.net>,
Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> I'm not entirely surprised. The project changed hands 18 months ago
> after being given up on by the original author, who clearly had little
> programming experience. I suspect it was a mess internally and needed
> to be scrapped and restarted from scratch, rather than bodged around
> with.
I have to say though that I am not sure Matt Milano or even Mike
realised fully what they were letting themselves in for. Or in fact had
much experience with a large project like this.
I guess we are all going to have to pick something from the current crop
of mail programs to move to. It's not an experience I am looking forward
to. I have been using Apple Mail in parallel with Eudora in a Parallels
virtual machine (Snow Leopard). Mail is usable like this, but
frustrating in so many ways.
It would actually be tolerable to continue using Eudora in a virtual
machine - it's just like having it in a screen space. What is a pain
though is handling attachments - getting received ones to the host, and
attaching files on the host to outgoing messages. I end up sometimes
installing apps on the virtual machine and opening the attachments
there, although this is a pain and sometimes doesn't work anyway. :-(
Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> I'm not entirely surprised. The project changed hands 18 months ago
> after being given up on by the original author, who clearly had little
> programming experience. I suspect it was a mess internally and needed
> to be scrapped and restarted from scratch, rather than bodged around
> with.
I have to say though that I am not sure Matt Milano or even Mike
realised fully what they were letting themselves in for. Or in fact had
much experience with a large project like this.
I guess we are all going to have to pick something from the current crop
of mail programs to move to. It's not an experience I am looking forward
to. I have been using Apple Mail in parallel with Eudora in a Parallels
virtual machine (Snow Leopard). Mail is usable like this, but
frustrating in so many ways.
It would actually be tolerable to continue using Eudora in a virtual
machine - it's just like having it in a screen space. What is a pain
though is handling attachments - getting received ones to the host, and
attaching files on the host to outgoing messages. I end up sometimes
installing apps on the virtual machine and opening the attachments
there, although this is a pain and sometimes doesn't work anyway. :-(
Message has been deleted
Peter Ceresole
Jan 17, 2014, 2:23:51 AM1/17/14
to
David Morrison <davi...@excite.com> wrote:
> I have been using Apple Mail in parallel with Eudora in a Parallels
> virtual machine (Snow Leopard). Mail is usable like this, but
> frustrating in so many ways.
I'm doing that- running Mail, but with my historical Eudora
> I have been using Apple Mail in parallel with Eudora in a Parallels
> virtual machine (Snow Leopard). Mail is usable like this, but
> frustrating in so many ways.
installation, which I use less and less as time goes by. I can't see any
real problems with Mail (using POP3). It works very well. As a matter of
interest, what don't you like about Mail?
--
Peter
Hauke Fath
Jan 17, 2014, 8:37:35 AM1/17/14
to
[f'up2 csma]
David Morrison <davi...@excite.com> wrote:
> I guess we are all going to have to pick something from the current crop
> of mail programs to move to. It's not an experience I am looking forward
> to. I have been using Apple Mail in parallel with Eudora in a Parallels
> virtual machine (Snow Leopard). Mail is usable like this, but
> frustrating in so many ways.
You might want to look at GyazMail <http://gyazsquare.com/gyazmail/>,
which I overall found closest to Eudora and have been using for about a
year now. Lean, and rock stable.
hauke
--
Now without signature.
David Morrison <davi...@excite.com> wrote:
> I guess we are all going to have to pick something from the current crop
> of mail programs to move to. It's not an experience I am looking forward
> to. I have been using Apple Mail in parallel with Eudora in a Parallels
> virtual machine (Snow Leopard). Mail is usable like this, but
> frustrating in so many ways.
which I overall found closest to Eudora and have been using for about a
year now. Lean, and rock stable.
hauke
--
Now without signature.
Message has been deleted
Hauke Fath
Jan 17, 2014, 1:03:31 PM1/17/14
to
Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> I composed a mail, clicked "Send later", and my mail vanished, never to
> be seen again. It did ask whether I wanted it saved as a draft, but I
> can't find it now.
Saved in a "Drafts" folder, I guess; the name is configurable.
> They also call everything a folder, which is misleading. There should
> be a distinction between mailboxes and folders.
This is IMAP terminology, AFAIK. It also makes a difference whether your
IMAP server uses mbox (one file per "mailbox"), or formats like maildir
that save each mail in its own file.
The folder list representation distinguishes clearly between nodes and
leaves, though.
> They don't appear to distinguish between inline and non-inline
> attachments. So a message with the former is flagged as having
> attachments - but you can't save them.
ISTR that Eudora inlines text attachments, so behaves similar.
> No Fcc: feature.
"'FCC'
The name of a file, to which a copy of the sent message should be
appended."
<http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Mail-Headers.h
tml>
-- rather obscure, no? Haven't used or missed this one in 20 years of
email... what I did is create a rule that copies all outgoing mail to a
mailbox, same as in Eudora, at least if you want your Outbox on the IMAP
server.
[...]
> Mails being composed are in a separate window, as are mails you
> double-click, so we end up with lots of windows just asking to get
> lost. These should all be in *one* window under different tabs.
That's... debatable. In fact, one reason why I stuck with Eudora for so
long is its multi-window mode. Tabs don't scale.
> Ah, I see. There is apparently no "queueing" of mail, just a chance to
> save it for later.
Since it is an IMAP client, queuing doesn't make much sense. No local
mail folders.
> Trying again, oops, pressed "Send later" and my mail
> vanished again.
You might check your Drafts folder? I don't know what happens when you
don't configure one. GyazMail should complain, I guess.
> Hmmm. Like a lot of these mail client offerings - lacking usability
> features.
While I have a list of issues myself that I'd like to see added to
GyazMail or changed (and will eventually send to the author), I found
the mailer quite complete.
YMMV, as always.
> I composed a mail, clicked "Send later", and my mail vanished, never to
> be seen again. It did ask whether I wanted it saved as a draft, but I
> can't find it now.
Saved in a "Drafts" folder, I guess; the name is configurable.
> They also call everything a folder, which is misleading. There should
> be a distinction between mailboxes and folders.
This is IMAP terminology, AFAIK. It also makes a difference whether your
IMAP server uses mbox (one file per "mailbox"), or formats like maildir
that save each mail in its own file.
The folder list representation distinguishes clearly between nodes and
leaves, though.
> They don't appear to distinguish between inline and non-inline
> attachments. So a message with the former is flagged as having
> attachments - but you can't save them.
ISTR that Eudora inlines text attachments, so behaves similar.
> No Fcc: feature.
"'FCC'
The name of a file, to which a copy of the sent message should be
appended."
<http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Mail-Headers.h
tml>
-- rather obscure, no? Haven't used or missed this one in 20 years of
email... what I did is create a rule that copies all outgoing mail to a
mailbox, same as in Eudora, at least if you want your Outbox on the IMAP
server.
[...]
> Mails being composed are in a separate window, as are mails you
> double-click, so we end up with lots of windows just asking to get
> lost. These should all be in *one* window under different tabs.
That's... debatable. In fact, one reason why I stuck with Eudora for so
long is its multi-window mode. Tabs don't scale.
> Ah, I see. There is apparently no "queueing" of mail, just a chance to
> save it for later.
Since it is an IMAP client, queuing doesn't make much sense. No local
mail folders.
> Trying again, oops, pressed "Send later" and my mail
> vanished again.
You might check your Drafts folder? I don't know what happens when you
don't configure one. GyazMail should complain, I guess.
> Hmmm. Like a lot of these mail client offerings - lacking usability
> features.
While I have a list of issues myself that I'd like to see added to
GyazMail or changed (and will eventually send to the author), I found
the mailer quite complete.
YMMV, as always.
Message has been deleted
David Morrison
Jan 17, 2014, 7:37:05 PM1/17/14
to
In article <170120140019278392%timst...@greenbee.net>,
Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> I run a VirtualBox (free) VM with Win7 in it so I can run Publisher. I
> don't know how it works in Parallels, but in VirtualBox you can
> designate a Mac folder as a shared folder and it appears as a drive (E:
> on my Win7 setup). So moving files back and forth is not too hard but
> tedious.
Same in Parallels, although it is a bit flakey at times. VMware was
worse, but maybe the latest version has fixed its problems.
Unfortunately, OS X as a virtual machine is not well supported by
either, compared to the Windows support. For example, you can drag files
into and out of the window of a Windows VM, but you cannot for a Mac VM.
For Windows, you can open a Mac file using a windows app, and vice versa
I think. This would be great for Eudora, but sadly not implemented.
I suppose you could run Windows Eudora this way, and it would behave
just like an OS X app except for the windows looking different.
> Mike has locked all the MF forums which is irritating as people can't
> discuss what the options there are and I can't mention my offering.
Yes, unfortunate. I suppose he anticipated lots of abuse, and was
probably right. Especially from the people who actually paid for
Mailforge but got nothing usable.
> Still, at least Maxim now has an answer to his persistent questions
> about when there will be a version of MF that can do this, that, and
> the other. Answer: when hell freezes over.
Hahaha
It was hard not to be skeptical. I don't think either Matt Milano or
Mike really had any idea of the scope of the project they took on. Nor
really of how to run a huge software project like this. So Mike took
over a seemingly doable product and found it to be a can of worms. Once
the serious problems became apparent, he would probably have been better
to abandon the stuff he got from Matt and rewrite it all from scratch.
So that leaves you, Tim, as one of the very few authors of a real mail
program. :-)
Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> I run a VirtualBox (free) VM with Win7 in it so I can run Publisher. I
> don't know how it works in Parallels, but in VirtualBox you can
> designate a Mac folder as a shared folder and it appears as a drive (E:
> on my Win7 setup). So moving files back and forth is not too hard but
> tedious.
Same in Parallels, although it is a bit flakey at times. VMware was
worse, but maybe the latest version has fixed its problems.
Unfortunately, OS X as a virtual machine is not well supported by
either, compared to the Windows support. For example, you can drag files
into and out of the window of a Windows VM, but you cannot for a Mac VM.
For Windows, you can open a Mac file using a windows app, and vice versa
I think. This would be great for Eudora, but sadly not implemented.
I suppose you could run Windows Eudora this way, and it would behave
just like an OS X app except for the windows looking different.
> Mike has locked all the MF forums which is irritating as people can't
> discuss what the options there are and I can't mention my offering.
Yes, unfortunate. I suppose he anticipated lots of abuse, and was
probably right. Especially from the people who actually paid for
Mailforge but got nothing usable.
> Still, at least Maxim now has an answer to his persistent questions
> about when there will be a version of MF that can do this, that, and
> the other. Answer: when hell freezes over.
Hahaha
It was hard not to be skeptical. I don't think either Matt Milano or
Mike really had any idea of the scope of the project they took on. Nor
really of how to run a huge software project like this. So Mike took
over a seemingly doable product and found it to be a can of worms. Once
the serious problems became apparent, he would probably have been better
to abandon the stuff he got from Matt and rewrite it all from scratch.
So that leaves you, Tim, as one of the very few authors of a real mail
program. :-)
David Morrison
Jan 17, 2014, 7:50:44 PM1/17/14
to
In article <1lflw70.1mg6bmm1tdbed4N%pe...@cara.demon.co.uk>,
Firstly, I do not like two or three pane interfaces. I prefer separate
windows. I have about 20 e-mail accounts. In Mail, I have 20 accounts in
the sidebar. To see a folder for an account, I have to scroll the
sidebar to the account, then click on the triangle to show the folders
for the account. If it is a gmail account, I have to click on the
triangle next to [Gmail] and scroll down until I get the folder I want.
(This is IMAP.) Then if I hide the account, it closes all those things
again and I have to open them all again next time.
And I have to do this to manually move a message into a folder. Compare
this to Eudora's Transfer menu, which is hierarchical and allows any
folder ot be reached in just a couple of clikcs and no scrolling.
I liked how Eudora opened the mailbox window when any new messages were
filtered into it. So you could have lots of unread messages in it
without being bothered. With Mail, you get the number of unread
messages, which doesn't tell you if there were any new ones in the last
check.
I do not like how Mail keeps setting accounts offline if there has been
any problem. Clients are constantly ringing me to ask why they cannot
send mail. It's because Mail has set the account offline and refuses to
do anything until you manually put it back online.
Mail has actually got worse in the last few iterations, I feel. Some
tasks have become even more cumbersome than they used to be.
I might try Gyaz as Faith suggested. Even Thunderbird I suppose as that
is more of an old school mail client.
windows. I have about 20 e-mail accounts. In Mail, I have 20 accounts in
the sidebar. To see a folder for an account, I have to scroll the
sidebar to the account, then click on the triangle to show the folders
for the account. If it is a gmail account, I have to click on the
triangle next to [Gmail] and scroll down until I get the folder I want.
(This is IMAP.) Then if I hide the account, it closes all those things
again and I have to open them all again next time.
And I have to do this to manually move a message into a folder. Compare
this to Eudora's Transfer menu, which is hierarchical and allows any
folder ot be reached in just a couple of clikcs and no scrolling.
I liked how Eudora opened the mailbox window when any new messages were
filtered into it. So you could have lots of unread messages in it
without being bothered. With Mail, you get the number of unread
messages, which doesn't tell you if there were any new ones in the last
check.
I do not like how Mail keeps setting accounts offline if there has been
any problem. Clients are constantly ringing me to ask why they cannot
send mail. It's because Mail has set the account offline and refuses to
do anything until you manually put it back online.
Mail has actually got worse in the last few iterations, I feel. Some
tasks have become even more cumbersome than they used to be.
I might try Gyaz as Faith suggested. Even Thunderbird I suppose as that
is more of an old school mail client.
David Morrison
Jan 17, 2014, 7:52:40 PM1/17/14
to
> I might try Gyaz as Faith suggested.
Oops, sorry, as Hauke Fath suggested.
Daniel Cohen
Jan 18, 2014, 5:48:02 AM1/18/14
to
Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> In article <1lfmryf.ipgjhnrumfuoN%dont.spa...@googlemail.com>,
YMMV very much here. I had to use IMAP for college mail, no choice.
> > Since it is an IMAP client, queuing doesn't make much sense. No local
> > mail folders.
>
> Sure it does. I might not want the mail to actually be sent until some
> later time.
I agree. Plus one might be offline, problems with mail server, etc
I think one can set up local folders for Drafts, Queued, and any other
folders one wants.
I tried Gyazmail and there was always an issue around Drafts, I got an
error message, and the developer never did anything about it. Come to
think of it, college have changed their email system and I might try
again.
Currently I am using Postbox, which works ok. I liked Gyazmail better,
but I doubt if there is enough reason to pay for another program.
--
<http://www.decohen.com>
The Labyrinth of the Heart: Changed Myths for Changing Lives
book and e-book <http://www.decohen.com/labyrinth>
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address, not the From address.
> In article <1lfmryf.ipgjhnrumfuoN%dont.spa...@googlemail.com>,
> Hauke Fath <dont.spa...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > This is IMAP terminology, AFAIK. It also makes a difference whether your
> > IMAP server uses mbox (one file per "mailbox"), or formats like maildir
> > that save each mail in its own file.
>
> If it's IMAP I'm definitely not interested.
> > This is IMAP terminology, AFAIK. It also makes a difference whether your
> > IMAP server uses mbox (one file per "mailbox"), or formats like maildir
> > that save each mail in its own file.
>
YMMV very much here. I had to use IMAP for college mail, no choice.
> > Since it is an IMAP client, queuing doesn't make much sense. No local
> > mail folders.
>
> later time.
I agree. Plus one might be offline, problems with mail server, etc
I think one can set up local folders for Drafts, Queued, and any other
folders one wants.
I tried Gyazmail and there was always an issue around Drafts, I got an
error message, and the developer never did anything about it. Come to
think of it, college have changed their email system and I might try
again.
Currently I am using Postbox, which works ok. I liked Gyazmail better,
but I doubt if there is enough reason to pay for another program.
--
<http://www.decohen.com>
The Labyrinth of the Heart: Changed Myths for Changing Lives
book and e-book <http://www.decohen.com/labyrinth>
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address, not the From address.
Message has been deleted
nospam
Jan 18, 2014, 4:45:44 PM1/18/14
to
In article <vilain-D0ECB3....@news.individual.net>, Michael
Vilain <vil...@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> In contrast, Sparrow, which still works on MacOS even thought it was
> bought by Google, ONLY uses IMAP, which was why I threw it out within 5
> minutes of using it.
why do you not like imap? it's much better than pop and can do
everything pop can do and more.
> The space for mail clients is sadly very limited. There's a LOT of work
> that goes into making one that's functional and deals with attachments,
> spam, IMAP, POP, and works on multiple versions of various platforms.
yes there is, which is why they all have problems in one way or another.
i picked apple mail because it sucked the least out of everything i
tried, and i tried quite a few. one reason was that the company that
made it isn't going to suddenly discontinue it.
> I used Thunderbird when I was stuck on a Linux box for a couple weeks.
> It was OK. Everyone has their own version of "I'll never use THAT".
> Well, now there's one less of THAT.
thunderbird's interface makes using pine look good.
Vilain <vil...@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> In contrast, Sparrow, which still works on MacOS even thought it was
> bought by Google, ONLY uses IMAP, which was why I threw it out within 5
> minutes of using it.
why do you not like imap? it's much better than pop and can do
everything pop can do and more.
> The space for mail clients is sadly very limited. There's a LOT of work
> that goes into making one that's functional and deals with attachments,
> spam, IMAP, POP, and works on multiple versions of various platforms.
yes there is, which is why they all have problems in one way or another.
i picked apple mail because it sucked the least out of everything i
tried, and i tried quite a few. one reason was that the company that
made it isn't going to suddenly discontinue it.
> I used Thunderbird when I was stuck on a Linux box for a couple weeks.
> It was OK. Everyone has their own version of "I'll never use THAT".
> Well, now there's one less of THAT.
thunderbird's interface makes using pine look good.
R. Millstein
Jan 18, 2014, 6:06:01 PM1/18/14
to
In article <170120140019278392%timst...@greenbee.net>,
actually look at it, but I just posted a link to the official
announcement of MF's death and a link to your program as well.
https://www.facebook.com/WeWantEudora
Roberta
--
Roberta Millstein
use...@spamaway.rlm.net
Remove "spamaway" to reply
Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> Mike has locked all the MF forums which is irritating as people can't
> discuss what the options there are and I can't mention my offering.
Someone started up a Facebook page awhile back; not sure how many people
> Mike has locked all the MF forums which is irritating as people can't
> discuss what the options there are and I can't mention my offering.
actually look at it, but I just posted a link to the official
announcement of MF's death and a link to your program as well.
https://www.facebook.com/WeWantEudora
Roberta
--
Roberta Millstein
use...@spamaway.rlm.net
Remove "spamaway" to reply
Message has been deleted
R. Millstein
Jan 18, 2014, 7:45:04 PM1/18/14
to
In article <180120142343428924%timst...@greenbee.net>,
Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> In article <usenet-8214C4....@free.teranews.com>, R.
> was enough.
:)
Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> In article <usenet-8214C4....@free.teranews.com>, R.
> Millstein <use...@spamaway.rlm.net> wrote:
>
> > In article <170120140019278392%timst...@greenbee.net>,
> > Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Mike has locked all the MF forums which is irritating as people can't
> > > discuss what the options there are and I can't mention my offering.
> >
> > Someone started up a Facebook page awhile back; not sure how many people
> > actually look at it, but I just posted a link to the official
> > announcement of MF's death and a link to your program as well.
> >
> > https://www.facebook.com/WeWantEudora
>
> Thanks for that. However, I don't do facebook, one look at their Ts&Cs
>
> > In article <170120140019278392%timst...@greenbee.net>,
> > Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Mike has locked all the MF forums which is irritating as people can't
> > > discuss what the options there are and I can't mention my offering.
> >
> > Someone started up a Facebook page awhile back; not sure how many people
> > actually look at it, but I just posted a link to the official
> > announcement of MF's death and a link to your program as well.
> >
> > https://www.facebook.com/WeWantEudora
>
> was enough.
:)
Message has been deleted
Peter Ceresole
Jan 19, 2014, 5:39:23 AM1/19/14
to
David Morrison <davi...@excite.com> wrote:
> Firstly, I do not like two or three pane interfaces. I prefer separate
> windows. I have about 20 e-mail accounts. In Mail, I have 20 accounts in
> the sidebar. To see a folder for an account, I have to scroll the
> sidebar to the account, then click on the triangle to show the folders
> for the account. If it is a gmail account, I have to click on the
> triangle next to [Gmail] and scroll down until I get the folder I want.
> (This is IMAP.) Then if I hide the account, it closes all those things
> again and I have to open them all again next time.
I can see what you mean, and Eudora is clearly much superior as an
> Firstly, I do not like two or three pane interfaces. I prefer separate
> windows. I have about 20 e-mail accounts. In Mail, I have 20 accounts in
> the sidebar. To see a folder for an account, I have to scroll the
> sidebar to the account, then click on the triangle to show the folders
> for the account. If it is a gmail account, I have to click on the
> triangle next to [Gmail] and scroll down until I get the folder I want.
> (This is IMAP.) Then if I hide the account, it closes all those things
> again and I have to open them all again next time.
industrial strength mailer, but as a simple user, two accounts, Mail
suits me absolutely fine.
I was used to the multiple pane setup of Eudora, but Mail's interface is
highly useable. The reason I stopped using Eudora was thast my ISP
changed their mail setup, and Eudora simply wouldn't conenct to their
new POP3 server, and although I changed the port numbers in the
Settings, Eudora wouldn't actually play. It turned out (discussing here)
that the Settings port changes weren't acted on, and the workaround was
too damn fiddly. It worked okay with IMAP, but I wanted to use POP3. And
Mail worked, as you might say, first pop. Worked with IMAP too...
--
Peter
R. Millstein
Jan 19, 2014, 12:33:43 PM1/19/14
to
In article <ohamd99eaukjp500j...@4ax.com>,
Dennis Lee Bieber <wlf...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 23:43:42 +0000, Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net>
> declaimed the following:
> seem to offer anything except high network traffic as everything is web
> page after web page...
I use Facebook (not Twitter or LinkedIn) to more easily connect with
colleagues, friends, and family who I'd otherwise have trouble keeping
in touch with. I respect those who don't for privacy reasons. In this
case, though (talking about Eudora replacements), posting to Facebook is
a way of reaching more people, because as I'm sure you've all noticed,
not that many people are on Usenet anymore. :) In this case, it was
probably of limited utility since the Facebook page was pretty dead.
So, the basic point still remains that we lost, and lack, a more
accessible place to discuss these issues.
Dennis Lee Bieber <wlf...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 23:43:42 +0000, Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net>
> declaimed the following:
>
>
> >Thanks for that. However, I don't do facebook, one look at their Ts&Cs
> >was enough.
>
> Ah yes... I don't use Facebook, Twitter, nor LinkedIn -- none of them
>
> >Thanks for that. However, I don't do facebook, one look at their Ts&Cs
> >was enough.
>
> seem to offer anything except high network traffic as everything is web
> page after web page...
I use Facebook (not Twitter or LinkedIn) to more easily connect with
colleagues, friends, and family who I'd otherwise have trouble keeping
in touch with. I respect those who don't for privacy reasons. In this
case, though (talking about Eudora replacements), posting to Facebook is
a way of reaching more people, because as I'm sure you've all noticed,
not that many people are on Usenet anymore. :) In this case, it was
probably of limited utility since the Facebook page was pretty dead.
So, the basic point still remains that we lost, and lack, a more
accessible place to discuss these issues.
David Morrison
Jan 19, 2014, 11:45:52 PM1/19/14
to
In article <180120142343428924%timst...@greenbee.net>,
when I do, it is as restricted as it is possible to do. Nothing of
consequence in my settings. Allows me to see what people are doing as
Roberta said.
And I check it once a week or less.
Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> Thanks for that. However, I don't do facebook, one look at their Ts&Cs
> was enough.
I have a low profile Facebook account. I hardly ever post anything, and
> Thanks for that. However, I don't do facebook, one look at their Ts&Cs
> was enough.
when I do, it is as restricted as it is possible to do. Nothing of
consequence in my settings. Allows me to see what people are doing as
Roberta said.
And I check it once a week or less.
Kathy Morgan
Jan 21, 2014, 5:57:39 PM1/21/14
to
slow, and searching is really poor. My biggest hate, though, is that I
can't make a delete-from-server/leave-on-server decision on an
individual message basis.
--
Kathy
Kathy Morgan
Jan 21, 2014, 5:57:41 PM1/21/14
to
David Morrison <davi...@excite.com> wrote:
> I liked how Eudora opened the mailbox window when any new messages were
> filtered into it. So you could have lots of unread messages in it
> without being bothered. With Mail, you get the number of unread
> messages, which doesn't tell you if there were any new ones in the last
> check.
I've set up a "smart" (hah!) mailbox to display all messages from all
> I liked how Eudora opened the mailbox window when any new messages were
> filtered into it. So you could have lots of unread messages in it
> without being bothered. With Mail, you get the number of unread
> messages, which doesn't tell you if there were any new ones in the last
> check.
accounts that are less than a certain age, so new messages show up
there. It's a poor, kludgy work-around, and doesn't work quite as you
would expect, but it's better than nothing.
--
Kathy
Message has been deleted
David Morrison
Jan 22, 2014, 9:42:42 AM1/22/14
to
In article <slrnldv1u4....@amelia.local>,
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <davidmor-7E8F72...@news.internode.on.net>
> The trouble is that Facebook tracks you all over the web if you have an
> account, so just HAVING one is a selling your soul to Facebook.
Have a look at this plugin, available for Safari and others:
http://disconnect.me
"Disconnect lets you visualize & block the invisible websites that track
you"
I have ben using it for several months and it works as advertised. The
only problem was a site that, with my agreement, wanted to post an item
to my Facebook feed. It wouldn't let it!
But that can be overridden on an individual page basis if necessary. But
otherwise, they just have to guess what I am doing.
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <davidmor-7E8F72...@news.internode.on.net>
> account, so just HAVING one is a selling your soul to Facebook.
Have a look at this plugin, available for Safari and others:
http://disconnect.me
"Disconnect lets you visualize & block the invisible websites that track
you"
I have ben using it for several months and it works as advertised. The
only problem was a site that, with my agreement, wanted to post an item
to my Facebook feed. It wouldn't let it!
But that can be overridden on an individual page basis if necessary. But
otherwise, they just have to guess what I am doing.
Message has been deleted
Jolly Roger
Jan 22, 2014, 11:26:02 AM1/22/14
to
the same thing and is compatible with more web browsers. Also, I've read
Disconnect.me is more resource intensive than DoNotTrackMe.
--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.
JR
David Morrison
Jan 22, 2014, 5:56:05 PM1/22/14
to
In article <slrnldvojd....@amelia.local>,
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> > http://disconnect.me
>
> The irony that that page has, right there in the upper right, Facebook
> and Twitter icons, is overwhelming.
Hahahaha. That's a good laugh for the day.
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> > http://disconnect.me
>
> The irony that that page has, right there in the upper right, Facebook
> and Twitter icons, is overwhelming.
Hahahaha. That's a good laugh for the day.
David Morrison
Jan 22, 2014, 6:02:56 PM1/22/14
to
In article <bka9oq...@mid.individual.net>,
different thing to blocking trackers on web pages.
Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> To each, their own, of course; but I prefer DoNotTrackMe, since it does
> the same thing and is compatible with more web browsers. Also, I've read
> Disconnect.me is more resource intensive than DoNotTrackMe.
As far as I can see, DoNotTrackMe is spam blocking. That is a completely
> To each, their own, of course; but I prefer DoNotTrackMe, since it does
> the same thing and is compatible with more web browsers. Also, I've read
> Disconnect.me is more resource intensive than DoNotTrackMe.
different thing to blocking trackers on web pages.
Jolly Roger
Jan 22, 2014, 6:19:11 PM1/22/14
to
On 2014-01-22, David Morrison <davi...@excite.com> wrote:
tools to help prevent spam, DoNotTrackMe has the same basic features as
Disconnect.me, including preventing web sites from tracking you as you
surf the web:
<https://www.abine.com/donottrackme/faq/>
Rich Greenberg
Jan 23, 2014, 3:03:02 PM1/23/14
to
In article <slrnldv1u4....@amelia.local>,
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>In message <davidmor-7E8F72...@news.internode.on.net>
> David Morrison <davi...@excite.com> wrote:
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>In message <davidmor-7E8F72...@news.internode.on.net>
> David Morrison <davi...@excite.com> wrote:
>The trouble is that Facebook tracks you all over the web if you have an
>account, so just HAVING one is a selling your soul to Facebook.
Verily, verily.....
>account, so just HAVING one is a selling your soul to Facebook.
Also keep in mind that on a "free" service such as Facebook, YOU are not
the customer. You are the product being sold to the customers who are
the advertisers on FB.
--
Rich Greenberg Sarasota, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 941 378 2097
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines: Val,Red,Shasta,Zero,Casey & Cinnar (At the bridge) Owner:Chinook-L
Canines: Red & Max (Siberians) Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L
Alan Browne
Jan 23, 2014, 6:19:23 PM1/23/14
to
On 2014.01.22, 03:56 , Lewis wrote:
> The trouble is that Facebook tracks you all over the web if you have an
> account, so just HAVING one is a selling your soul to Facebook.
Take heart:
> The trouble is that Facebook tracks you all over the web if you have an
> account, so just HAVING one is a selling your soul to Facebook.
http://io9.com/researchers-predict-facebook-will-die-out-like-a-disea-1506843703
( I doubt it will happen for a variety of reasons - but there is hope).
--
“Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.”
- Mike Tyson
c...@compuserve.com
Jan 31, 2014, 3:56:53 AM1/31/14
to
Why can't the Mailforge bozo's even update their main web page? It still states:
"Our focus is to continue the evolution of the MailForge product. We are dedicated to bringing the features, power and stability of Eudora into MailForge."
What a ridiculous farce...
At least when Matt failed, he left the forums up and running!
CVB
"Our focus is to continue the evolution of the MailForge product. We are dedicated to bringing the features, power and stability of Eudora into MailForge."
What a ridiculous farce...
At least when Matt failed, he left the forums up and running!
CVB
Paul Sture
Jan 31, 2014, 4:33:02 AM1/31/14
to
>> I have been using Apple Mail in parallel with Eudora in a Parallels
>> virtual machine (Snow Leopard). Mail is usable like this, but
>> frustrating in so many ways.
>
> I'm doing that- running Mail, but with my historical Eudora
> installation, which I use less and less as time goes by. I can't see any
> real problems with Mail (using POP3). It works very well. As a matter of
> interest, what don't you like about Mail?
I had a devil of a job with Apple Mail late last year. I'm sure it
>> virtual machine (Snow Leopard). Mail is usable like this, but
>> frustrating in so many ways.
>
> I'm doing that- running Mail, but with my historical Eudora
> installation, which I use less and less as time goes by. I can't see any
> real problems with Mail (using POP3). It works very well. As a matter of
> interest, what don't you like about Mail?
wasn't always like this but when I add a new email, if it sees that it's
the same domain as an existing email address it uses the outgoing
username and password of that address, not the new one.
As it happened, at first my ISP wasn't checking that the outgoing
address matched the username/password combination. When
they tightened that up I suddenly couldn't post from a load of those
addresses.
Yes you can go into the outgoing SMTP server settings and add a new
entry but it's a lousy user interface. When you have a dozen or so
addresses to set up it is a real pain in the neck-
--
If you make it well enough, you give it immortality.” -- Ernest Hemingway
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Paul Sture
Jan 31, 2014, 3:16:18 PM1/31/14
to
Lewis wrote:
> In message <e77sra-...@news.chingola.ch>
> the outgoing address match the authenticated user.
>
> Get a new ISP. Oh, and never use your ISPs email servers anyway.
I've just revisited my notes on that and I realise I described it badly.
It was my hosting ISP, not the one I used to connect to the outside
world from home. It's all history now because I shifted to another
supplier some time ago.
>> Yes you can go into the outgoing SMTP server settings and add a new
>> entry but it's a lousy user interface. When you have a dozen or so
>> addresses to set up it is a real pain in the neck-
>
> The problem is not Mail.app nor Apple, the problem is the dumbasses you
> allow to handle your mail.
Actually it is a problem with Mail.app, because the drop down menu for
outgoing SMTP servers is too small. Here's an example I found on the
web - notice how the Outgoing Mail Server (SMTP) field truncates the
username.
<http://www.authsmtp.com/images/macmail-7.jpg>
> In message <e77sra-...@news.chingola.ch>
> Paul Sture <nos...@sture.ch> wrote:
>
>> I had a devil of a job with Apple Mail late last year. I'm sure it
>> wasn't always like this but when I add a new email, if it sees that it's
>> the same domain as an existing email address it uses the outgoing
>> username and password of that address, not the new one.
>
>> As it happened, at first my ISP wasn't checking that the outgoing
>> address matched the username/password combination. When
>> they tightened that up I suddenly couldn't post from a load of those
>> addresses.
>
> Your ISP is run by morons. There is absolutely no reason to require that
>
>> I had a devil of a job with Apple Mail late last year. I'm sure it
>> wasn't always like this but when I add a new email, if it sees that it's
>> the same domain as an existing email address it uses the outgoing
>> username and password of that address, not the new one.
>
>> As it happened, at first my ISP wasn't checking that the outgoing
>> address matched the username/password combination. When
>> they tightened that up I suddenly couldn't post from a load of those
>> addresses.
>
> the outgoing address match the authenticated user.
>
> Get a new ISP. Oh, and never use your ISPs email servers anyway.
I've just revisited my notes on that and I realise I described it badly.
It was my hosting ISP, not the one I used to connect to the outside
world from home. It's all history now because I shifted to another
supplier some time ago.
>> Yes you can go into the outgoing SMTP server settings and add a new
>> entry but it's a lousy user interface. When you have a dozen or so
>> addresses to set up it is a real pain in the neck-
>
> allow to handle your mail.
Actually it is a problem with Mail.app, because the drop down menu for
outgoing SMTP servers is too small. Here's an example I found on the
web - notice how the Outgoing Mail Server (SMTP) field truncates the
username.
<http://www.authsmtp.com/images/macmail-7.jpg>
Message has been deleted
Paul Sture
Feb 1, 2014, 6:12:24 PM2/1/14
to
Lewis wrote:
> In message <itctra-...@news.chingola.ch>
> are "iCloud" "Gmail" "Work".
Many thanks. I hadn't spotted that.
> In message <itctra-...@news.chingola.ch>
> Paul Sture <nos...@sture.ch> wrote:
>
>> Actually it is a problem with Mail.app, because the drop down menu for
>> outgoing SMTP servers is too small. Here's an example I found on the
>> web - notice how the Outgoing Mail Server (SMTP) field truncates the
>> username.
>
>> <http://www.authsmtp.com/images/macmail-7.jpg>
>
> But you can set the Label of the SMTP server to anything you want. Mine
>
>> Actually it is a problem with Mail.app, because the drop down menu for
>> outgoing SMTP servers is too small. Here's an example I found on the
>> web - notice how the Outgoing Mail Server (SMTP) field truncates the
>> username.
>
>> <http://www.authsmtp.com/images/macmail-7.jpg>
>
> are "iCloud" "Gmail" "Work".
Many thanks. I hadn't spotted that.
Message has been deleted
David Morrison
Jun 18, 2014, 1:55:49 AM6/18/14
to
In article <slrnldv1u4....@amelia.local>,
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <davidmor-7E8F72...@news.internode.on.net>
> David Morrison <davi...@excite.com> wrote:
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <davidmor-7E8F72...@news.internode.on.net>
> David Morrison <davi...@excite.com> wrote:
> The trouble is that Facebook tracks you all over the web if you have an
> account, so just HAVING one is a selling your soul to Facebook.
Just reviving this old thread....
> account, so just HAVING one is a selling your soul to Facebook.
Look at a plugin called Disconnect that disables all those things that
call home. Quite astonishing to see how many tracking things there are
on the average page.
https://disconnect.me
Message has been deleted
Jolly Roger
Jun 18, 2014, 10:58:44 PM6/18/14
to
On 2014-06-19, Michael Vilain <vil...@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> In article <davidmor-C60366...@news.internode.on.net>,
> that it kept doing a pop-up for their premium service with every page.
> It was so annoying that I trashed it. The version I have on an older
> system doesn't do that. I can't stand nag-ware.
That's interesting. Looks like I have 3.0.3 installed (according to the
Safari Extensions preference pane) and have never noticed such nags. I'm
curious what version you installed.
Anyhow, luckily there are other alternatives available, like
DoNotTrackMe and Ghostery.
> In article <davidmor-C60366...@news.internode.on.net>,
> David Morrison <davi...@excite.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <slrnldv1u4....@amelia.local>,
>> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>
>> > In message <davidmor-7E8F72...@news.internode.on.net>
>> > David Morrison <davi...@excite.com> wrote:
>> > > In article <180120142343428924%timst...@greenbee.net>,
>> > > Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > >> Thanks for that. However, I don't do facebook, one look at their Ts&Cs
>> > >> was enough.
>> >
>> > > I have a low profile Facebook account. I hardly ever post anything, and
>> > > when I do, it is as restricted as it is possible to do. Nothing of
>> > > consequence in my settings. Allows me to see what people are doing as
>> > > Roberta said.
>> >
>> > > And I check it once a week or less.
>> >
>> > The trouble is that Facebook tracks you all over the web if you have an
>> > account, so just HAVING one is a selling your soul to Facebook.
>>
>> Just reviving this old thread....
>>
>> Look at a plugin called Disconnect that disables all those things that
>> call home. Quite astonishing to see how many tracking things there are
>> on the average page.
>>
>> https://disconnect.me
>
> The sad thing about the version of Disconnect that I just installed is
>
>> In article <slrnldv1u4....@amelia.local>,
>> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>
>> > In message <davidmor-7E8F72...@news.internode.on.net>
>> > David Morrison <davi...@excite.com> wrote:
>> > > In article <180120142343428924%timst...@greenbee.net>,
>> > > Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > >> Thanks for that. However, I don't do facebook, one look at their Ts&Cs
>> > >> was enough.
>> >
>> > > I have a low profile Facebook account. I hardly ever post anything, and
>> > > when I do, it is as restricted as it is possible to do. Nothing of
>> > > consequence in my settings. Allows me to see what people are doing as
>> > > Roberta said.
>> >
>> > > And I check it once a week or less.
>> >
>> > The trouble is that Facebook tracks you all over the web if you have an
>> > account, so just HAVING one is a selling your soul to Facebook.
>>
>> Just reviving this old thread....
>>
>> Look at a plugin called Disconnect that disables all those things that
>> call home. Quite astonishing to see how many tracking things there are
>> on the average page.
>>
>> https://disconnect.me
>
> that it kept doing a pop-up for their premium service with every page.
> It was so annoying that I trashed it. The version I have on an older
> system doesn't do that. I can't stand nag-ware.
That's interesting. Looks like I have 3.0.3 installed (according to the
Safari Extensions preference pane) and have never noticed such nags. I'm
curious what version you installed.
Anyhow, luckily there are other alternatives available, like
DoNotTrackMe and Ghostery.
Jolly Roger
Jun 18, 2014, 11:14:08 PM6/18/14
to
On 2014-06-19, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2014-06-19, Michael Vilain <vil...@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
>> In article <davidmor-C60366...@news.internode.on.net>,
>> David Morrison <davi...@excite.com> wrote:
>>
>> The sad thing about the version of Disconnect that I just installed is
>> that it kept doing a pop-up for their premium service with every page.
>> It was so annoying that I trashed it. The version I have on an older
>> system doesn't do that. I can't stand nag-ware.
>
> That's interesting. Looks like I have 3.0.3 installed (according to the
> Safari Extensions preference pane) and have never noticed such nags.
And I have Safari Extensions auto-update enabled, so I thought I was
> On 2014-06-19, Michael Vilain <vil...@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
>> In article <davidmor-C60366...@news.internode.on.net>,
>> David Morrison <davi...@excite.com> wrote:
>>
>> The sad thing about the version of Disconnect that I just installed is
>> that it kept doing a pop-up for their premium service with every page.
>> It was so annoying that I trashed it. The version I have on an older
>> system doesn't do that. I can't stand nag-ware.
>
> That's interesting. Looks like I have 3.0.3 installed (according to the
> Safari Extensions preference pane) and have never noticed such nags.
running the latest version.
Message has been deleted
bi...@mix.com
Jun 19, 2014, 6:34:29 AM6/19/14
to
[Eudora groups dropped]
Michael Vilain <vil...@nospamcop.net> wrote:
> I'm running [...] Disconnect 3.0.3 [...] On the Mavericks Safari
> (7 something), Disconnect won't shut up, so I ripped it out.
It's completely quiet for me on Safari Version 7.0.4 (9537.76.4)
under 10.9.3. Other than the count of blocked links on the badge
on the tool bar icon updating, it's been invisible.
> I complained to the company and I'll post their response.
Billy Y..
--
sub #'9+1 ,r0 ; convert ascii byte
add #9.+1 ,r0 ; to an integer
bcc 20$ ; not a number
Michael Vilain <vil...@nospamcop.net> wrote:
> I'm running [...] Disconnect 3.0.3 [...] On the Mavericks Safari
> (7 something), Disconnect won't shut up, so I ripped it out.
It's completely quiet for me on Safari Version 7.0.4 (9537.76.4)
under 10.9.3. Other than the count of blocked links on the badge
on the tool bar icon updating, it's been invisible.
> I complained to the company and I'll post their response.
Billy Y..
--
sub #'9+1 ,r0 ; convert ascii byte
add #9.+1 ,r0 ; to an integer
bcc 20$ ; not a number
Jolly Roger
Jun 19, 2014, 12:02:46 PM6/19/14
to
On 2014-06-19, Michael Vilain <vil...@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> In article <c0f1v4...@mid.individual.net>,
> 6.1. I'm also running AdblockPlus 1.8.3. I just reinstalled Disconnect
> on MacOS 10.8.5. On the Mavericks Safari (7 something), Disconnect
> won't shut up, so I ripped it out. I complained to the company and I'll
> post their response.
Very interesting. You wouldn't happen to a screen shot you could share,
for those of us who haven't seen the nag to which you refer, would you?
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Jolly Roger
Jun 20, 2014, 12:13:28 PM6/20/14
to
On 2014-06-20, Michael Vilain <vil...@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> system. It turns out it's DoNotTrackMe from Abine that's offering the
> "premium service" that's doing the nagging. I ripped it out and all is
> good now. So my sincere apologies to Disconnect.me. It's a great
> extension and does it's job well. DoNotTrackMe wasn't so bad a while
> ago, but now it's obnoxious nagware. Into the trash it went.
That does make more sense. I have DoNotTrackMe installed, but disabled
it after installing Disonnect.me. That probably explains why I haven't
seen those nags! Guess I'll go ahead and uninstall it now too. Thanks
for the heads-up. : )
> In article <lnuebl$7mr$1...@reader2.panix.com>, bi...@MIX.COM wrote:
>
>> [Eudora groups dropped]
>>
>> Michael Vilain <vil...@nospamcop.net> wrote:
>>
>> > I'm running [...] Disconnect 3.0.3 [...] On the Mavericks Safari
>> > (7 something), Disconnect won't shut up, so I ripped it out.
>>
>> It's completely quiet for me on Safari Version 7.0.4 (9537.76.4)
>> under 10.9.3. Other than the count of blocked links on the badge
>> on the tool bar icon updating, it's been invisible.
>>
>> > I complained to the company and I'll post their response.
>>
>> Billy Y..
>
> I misspoke here. I installed Disconnect and DoNotTrackMe both on a new
>
>> [Eudora groups dropped]
>>
>> Michael Vilain <vil...@nospamcop.net> wrote:
>>
>> > I'm running [...] Disconnect 3.0.3 [...] On the Mavericks Safari
>> > (7 something), Disconnect won't shut up, so I ripped it out.
>>
>> It's completely quiet for me on Safari Version 7.0.4 (9537.76.4)
>> under 10.9.3. Other than the count of blocked links on the badge
>> on the tool bar icon updating, it's been invisible.
>>
>> > I complained to the company and I'll post their response.
>>
>> Billy Y..
>
> system. It turns out it's DoNotTrackMe from Abine that's offering the
> "premium service" that's doing the nagging. I ripped it out and all is
> good now. So my sincere apologies to Disconnect.me. It's a great
> extension and does it's job well. DoNotTrackMe wasn't so bad a while
> ago, but now it's obnoxious nagware. Into the trash it went.
That does make more sense. I have DoNotTrackMe installed, but disabled
it after installing Disonnect.me. That probably explains why I haven't
seen those nags! Guess I'll go ahead and uninstall it now too. Thanks
for the heads-up. : )
Jolly Roger
Jun 20, 2014, 12:15:16 PM6/20/14
to
On 2014-06-20, Michael Vilain <vil...@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> In article <c0gft6...@mid.individual.net>,
> and you're surprised). It was DoNotTrackMe that did the nagging.
> That's what I trashed.
>
> These days, "getting lucky" is starting to mean I can walk into a room
> and remember why I went into it.
You are in good company. No worries. Besides, it's all in your head. ; D
> In article <c0gft6...@mid.individual.net>,
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> Very interesting. You wouldn't happen to a screen shot you could share,
>> for those of us who haven't seen the nag to which you refer, would you?
>
> The Disconnect.me people said the same thing. I was wrong (I'm shocked
>
>> Very interesting. You wouldn't happen to a screen shot you could share,
>> for those of us who haven't seen the nag to which you refer, would you?
>
> and you're surprised). It was DoNotTrackMe that did the nagging.
> That's what I trashed.
>
> These days, "getting lucky" is starting to mean I can walk into a room
> and remember why I went into it.
You are in good company. No worries. Besides, it's all in your head. ; D
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