Thunderbird or Unison for usenet?

[Sandman]

So, being abandoned by the best usenet software ever made,
MT-NewsWatcher, I among many of you are stuck in the question about what
software we should use now...

I am currently trying out thunderbird, and I think it's a better
candidate than Unison even though Unison does look better, but is a more
rudimentary reader. Thunderbird shares some keyboard settings with MTNW
for instance.

Both lack *severly* in the filtering department, and frankly, I think
Panic is more likely to respond to user feedback in that area.

Both have an AIO window scheme, where all "views" can be contained
within one window. Thunderbird handles this much better by having a read
pane to the right of the list, with Unison only having it below.

Whichever you choose, the question of synchronization comes up. I use
MT-NW on my work Mac and my laptop. I use dropbox to synchronize the
.newsrc file which works seemlessly. MTNW also supports storing the
.newsrc file on a FTP server for sharing.

Neither Unison or Thunderbird have sharing built in, so do anyone know
what files to sync (via dropbox, for example) for either to remain in
sync - I mean syncing filter settings, account settings and group
subscriptions and read status of those groups?

What is your current plan?

--
Sandman[.net]

[Jesse]

I love Unison's interface, but it sucks for posting text articles. It
formats everything flowed and has no ability to automatically wrap lines
appropriately. There are bugs in its Message-ID generation, where if
the server doesn't offer a suggestion it forms a Message-ID that is not
compliant. It's filtering capabilities are not that bad IMO, but I
don't ever see the need for filtering, but that is just my own Usenet
experience.

I use Thunderbird/Postbox for posting text articles now. I wish I could
combine the Unison interface since it is slightly more intuitive and
built around newsgroups and not e-mail. All else aside Thunderbird
makes a solid Usenet client for the modern Mac.

[Jolly Roger]

In article <slrnl6fk6a....@jaka.local>,
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <bcprlu...@mid.individual.net>

> Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:
> > So, being abandoned by the best usenet software ever made,
> > MT-NewsWatcher, I among many of you are stuck in the question about what
> > software we should use now...
>

> The best options for newsreaders have always been the command line
> programs. The best of these, IMO. is slrn (which is trivially installed
> via mac ports) because of it's extensive scoring system which can be
> made to do almost anything, including backflips.
>
> I have slrn setup so that when I post, it uses BBEdit. I store its
> config files and newsrc file on Dropbox for syncing across machines (and
> platforms, except for iOS).
>
> in .slrnrc:
>
> set editor_command "bbedit -w --resume +%d '%s'"
>
> This will not work with the App Store version of BBEdit.

That's probably the route I'll go.

--
Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me.
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM
filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google
Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.

JR

[Jolly Roger]

In article <timstreater-0DF0...@news.individual.net>,

Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:

> In article <slrnl6fk6a....@jaka.local>,
> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>
> > In message <bcprlu...@mid.individual.net>
> > Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:

> > > So, being abandoned by the best usenet software ever made,
> > > MT-NewsWatcher, I among many of you are stuck in the question about what
> > > software we should use now...
> >

> > The best options for newsreaders have always been the command line
> > programs.
>

> Complete cock.

Depends on your perspective, of course.

[Sandman]

On 2013-10-23 15:36, Lewis wrote:

> > So, being abandoned by the best usenet software ever made,
> > MT-NewsWatcher, I among many of you are stuck in the question
> > about what software we should use now...
>

> The best options for newsreaders have always been the command line

> programs. The best of these, IMO. is slrn (which is trivially
> installed via mac ports) because of it's extensive scoring system
> which can be made to do almost anything, including backflips.

I've used slrn (and tin) from time to time, and always miss the ability
to click URL's, which is the single largest problem I have with slrn.

> I have slrn setup so that when I post, it uses BBEdit. I store its
> config files and newsrc file on Dropbox for syncing across machines
> (and platforms, except for iOS).
>
> in .slrnrc:
>
> set editor_command "bbedit -w --resume +%d '%s'"
>
> This will not work with the App Store version of BBEdit.

Why? I mean, I *LOVE* BBEdit, but why not use a command line editor?

Either way, if I was to use slrn/tin I would do so on a remote server,
SSH'ing in to it to launch slrn, so BBEdit wouldn't be a choice then -
unless there is a compelling reason to use BBEdit, that is.

Please tell me more about this BB workflow



--
Sandman[.net]

[Sandman]

On 2013-10-23 15:57, Sn!pe wrote:

>> What is your current plan?
>

> Personally, I'm going to continue using MacSOUP. IMO it's by far the
> best newsreader for text Usenet.

Right, thanks. I used to look in to that a decade ago and it was ugly
and cumbersome as hell. I'll look in to it again.

How do you sync settings between machines?

--
Sandman[.net]

[Jolly Roger]

In article <5267EFBB...@mrsandman.mid.individual.net>,

Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:

> if I was to use slrn/tin I would do so on a remote server,
> SSH'ing in to it to launch slrn

That's how I'd do it as well. Simpler that way.

[Lloyd E Parsons]

I just looked at a screen shot of MacSoup. Still ugly as hell!

--
Lloyd

[Lloyd E Parsons]

Since this morning and playing around some more with newsreaders, I've
decided that I like Unison enough to buy it. So I did. Simple and
easy enough and all I do is text usenet, no binaries. Works quite well.

Tried to like Thunderbird, but couldn't. I kept getting 'expired post'
errors off and on and that required a close and restart every time.
Same server, same groups with Unison arene't doing that. That error
was the final straw. I didn't like T-bird much when I tried it a long
time ago and still don't.

Unison seems to be good enough for my uses.

BTW, tried Hogwasher but it won't get the groups list, always popping
up an 'internal error' message.

--
Lloyd

[Sandman]

On 2013-10-23, Lloyd E Parsons <lloy...@live.com> wrote:

>> What is your current plan?
>
> Since this morning and playing around some more with newsreaders, I've
> decided that I like Unison enough to buy it. So I did. Simple and
> easy enough and all I do is text usenet, no binaries. Works quite well.

Unison is a good enough program for the casual usenet poster, but it lacks many features for the advanced user. I, for one, need to filter my own messages, plus replies to my messages, plus threads I've participated in - for starters.

I wrote a post on my site about what Panic can do to improve Unison:

http://mac.sandman.net/pages/thoughts/2013-10-23/Switching_To_Unison

The UI stuff is pretty ok in Thunderbird, but the UI is *nicer* in Unison. The UI in MTNW was rudimentary, but very functional.



--
Sandman[.net]

[Wes Groleau]

On 10-23-2013, 07:53, Sandman wrote:
> Both lack *severly* in the filtering department, and frankly, I think
> Panic is more likely to respond to user feedback in that area.

What is missing, in your opinion? Thunderbird looks primitive
"out-of-the-box" but it actually allows you to filter on ANY header.
You just have to add the ones that aren't already in the menu.

> Both have an AIO window scheme, where all "views" can be contained
> within one window. Thunderbird handles this much better by having a read
> pane to the right of the list, with Unison only having it below.

I like Thunderbird's thread view.

> Whichever you choose, the question of synchronization comes up. I use
> MT-NW on my work Mac and my laptop. I use dropbox to synchronize the
> .newsrc file which works seemlessly. MTNW also supports storing the
> .newsrc file on a FTP server for sharing.

Start Thunderbird on each machine and set up your profiles. Set one of
them exactly the way you want. The rest can just be defaulted.

Shut down Thunderbird. Move or copy ~Library/Thunderbird to somewhere
in your Dropbox directory and allow it to synchronize.

On each Mac OS or other Unix/Linux/BSD/etc.,

rm -rf ~Library/Thunderbird
ln -s <dropbox/path>/Thunderbird

When Thunderbird launches, it fetches ~Library/Thunderbird/profiles.ini

It doesn't care that there is a symlink in the path.

profles.ini tells it where to go relative to the same folder for
everything else.

I don't know whether there's a way to use the same profiles on Windows.

I don't think you can use it with other newsreaders, as it uses an
SQLite DB instead of the original plain ASCII .newsrc

I've been doing this for years. Downside is the amount of Dropbox
traffic, as changes will be made frequently while you are reading and
posting and filtering and changing settings.

--
Wes Groleau

I won't burn your Koran because I don't want you to burn my Bible;
but if you burn my Bible, no one's going to die.
— Robert Rhee

[Wes Groleau]

On 10-23-2013, 21:44, (me) wrote:
> What is missing, in your opinion? Thunderbird looks primitive
> "out-of-the-box" but it actually allows you to filter on ANY header. You
> just have to add the ones that aren't already in the menu.

One thing I _WISH_ it could do is kill any _response_ to some specified
troll. It does have a "kill subthread" action in the filters, but then
you miss decent posts when the thread drifts away from troll-bashing to
legitimate content. Then again, I can't afford the time to read even
half of the legit posts, so it's not major.

One other flaw in Thunderbird is that it doesn't properly mark
cross-posted items as read. So you get to read them again and again unless
you kill the thread the next time.

[Wes Groleau]

On 10-23-2013, 13:30, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
> I kept getting 'expired post' errors off and on and that required a
> close and restart every time.

Hmmm. I have only rarely seen 'expired post', and when I did, it was
always when I tried to open a very old post in a thread that someone had
recently posted in. IOW, a restart would be irrelevant.

[Lloyd E Parsons]

On 2013-10-24 01:54:46 +0000, Wes Groleau said:

> On 10-23-2013, 13:30, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
>> I kept getting 'expired post' errors off and on and that required a
>> close and restart every time.
>
> Hmmm. I have only rarely seen 'expired post', and when I did, it was
> always when I tried to open a very old post in a thread that someone
> had recently posted in. IOW, a restart would be irrelevant.

First time I saw it, I didn't give it much credit as a real bug. But
when it kept doing it over and over during the day, I had enough.

And you're right, a restart SHOULD have been irrelevant, but it was the
only way I found to get it to stop doing it temporarily.

So I moved on to Unison, which does what it does without buggy
operation. And what it does is plenty good enough for me.
--
Lloyd

[Sandman]

In article <l49u1d$qlq$1...@dont-email.me>, Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> > Both lack *severly* in the filtering department, and frankly, I think
> > Panic is more likely to respond to user feedback in that area.
>
> What is missing, in your opinion? Thunderbird looks primitive
> "out-of-the-box" but it actually allows you to filter on ANY header.
> You just have to add the ones that aren't already in the menu.

Yeah, I know. But even after some really heavy googling, I couldn't get it
to set my Message-ID to something that I could filter on, which was a pity.
MT-NW also filters on pretty much anything and supports regexp filters as
well. I've moved to slrn now which has very good scoring/filtering.

> > Whichever you choose, the question of synchronization comes up. I use
> > MT-NW on my work Mac and my laptop. I use dropbox to synchronize the
> > .newsrc file which works seemlessly. MTNW also supports storing the
> > .newsrc file on a FTP server for sharing.
>
> Start Thunderbird on each machine and set up your profiles. Set one of
> them exactly the way you want. The rest can just be defaulted.
>
> Shut down Thunderbird. Move or copy ~Library/Thunderbird to somewhere
> in your Dropbox directory and allow it to synchronize.

I'll look into that if I ever get around to trying TB again.

> I don't think you can use it with other newsreaders, as it uses an
> SQLite DB instead of the original plain ASCII .newsrc
>
> I've been doing this for years. Downside is the amount of Dropbox
> traffic, as changes will be made frequently while you are reading and
> posting and filtering and changing settings.

Eew, that's a bummer.



--
Sandman[.net]

[Sandman]

In article <l49ue7$spn$1...@dont-email.me>, Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> > What is missing, in your opinion? Thunderbird looks primitive
> > "out-of-the-box" but it actually allows you to filter on ANY header. You
> > just have to add the ones that aren't already in the menu.
>
> One thing I _WISH_ it could do is kill any _response_ to some specified
> troll.

Ah, yes that sucks. I have MT-NW (and now slrn) set up to kill responses to
known trolls such as Snit. It's just a matter of using regular expressions
and the References: header.

> One other flaw in Thunderbird is that it doesn't properly mark
> cross-posted items as read. So you get to read them again and again unless
> you kill the thread the next time.

Ouch, yeah that sucks. Both MT-NW and slrn does that nicely.

--
Sandman[.net]

[Sandman]

In article <slrnl6h34j....@mbp55.local>, Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> >> set editor_command "bbedit -w --resume +%d '%s'"
>

> > Why? I mean, I *LOVE* BBEdit, but why not use a command line editor?
>

> Because BBEdit is better than vim and vim is better than MacVim and
> MacVIm is better than everything else.

Haha, talk about circular reasoning :)

Anyway, I use BBEdit for programming, and I see your posts are hard
wrapped. But as far as I know you can't set BBEdit to hardwrap edit from
the command line, and I don't want to hardwrap it as a general rule. How do
you manage this?

Using pico/nano, I just use this:

set editor_command "pico +8,1 -r 75"

To make it hardwrap to 75 columns.

> > Either way, if I was to use slrn/tin I would do so on a remote server,
> > SSH'ing in to it to launch slrn, so BBEdit wouldn't be a choice then -
> > unless there is a compelling reason to use BBEdit, that is.
>

> I run slrn locally.

Yes :)

> > Please tell me more about this BB workflow
>

> I hit 'r' to reply, BBEdit opens with the post, I make my post and trim
> the extra crap (sometimes) and then close the window. BBEdit asks to
> save, I hit enter, and then slrn comes back and confirms the posting.
> It's the same workflow as vim.

Right, still curious about the wrapping...


--
Sandman[.net]

[Barry Margolin]

In article <l49ue7$spn$1...@dont-email.me>,
Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> On 10-23-2013, 21:44, (me) wrote:
> > What is missing, in your opinion? Thunderbird looks primitive
> > "out-of-the-box" but it actually allows you to filter on ANY header. You
> > just have to add the ones that aren't already in the menu.
>
> One thing I _WISH_ it could do is kill any _response_ to some specified
> troll. It does have a "kill subthread" action in the filters, but then
> you miss decent posts when the thread drifts away from troll-bashing to
> legitimate content. Then again, I can't afford the time to read even
> half of the legit posts, so it's not major.

When was the last time a subthread ever did that? Once it veers onto
that tangent, I've never seen it get back to the original topic.

This is a feature I've long wished for in MT-NW.

--
Barry Margolin, bar...@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

[Robert Peirce]

On 10/23/13 7:53 AM, Sandman wrote:
> So, being abandoned by the best usenet software ever made,
> MT-NewsWatcher, I among many of you are stuck in the question about what
> software we should use now...
>
> I am currently trying out thunderbird, and I think it's a better
> candidate than Unison even though Unison does look better, but is a more
> rudimentary reader. Thunderbird shares some keyboard settings with MTNW
> for instance.

I just downloaded Thunderbird in preparation for loosing MTNW but I have
run into an odd problem. One of the servers I use is Eternal-September
and Thunderbird only finds the eternal-september newsgroups and not the
alt groups I was reading. The group list under MTNW is huge. Anybody
know why it isn't showing up under Tbird?

[Lloyd E Parsons]

Can't tell you about that, but I couldn't get it to work reliably with
eternal-september. T-Bird kept expiring new messages quicker than I
could read them.

--
Lloyd

[Jamie Kahn Genet]

Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:

> So, being abandoned by the best usenet software ever made,
> MT-NewsWatcher, I among many of you are stuck in the question about what
> software we should use now...
>
> I am currently trying out thunderbird, and I think it's a better
> candidate than Unison even though Unison does look better, but is a more
> rudimentary reader. Thunderbird shares some keyboard settings with MTNW
> for instance.
>

> Both lack *severly* in the filtering department, and frankly, I think
> Panic is more likely to respond to user feedback in that area.
>

> Both have an AIO window scheme, where all "views" can be contained
> within one window. Thunderbird handles this much better by having a read
> pane to the right of the list, with Unison only having it below.
>

> Whichever you choose, the question of synchronization comes up. I use
> MT-NW on my work Mac and my laptop. I use dropbox to synchronize the
> .newsrc file which works seemlessly. MTNW also supports storing the
> .newsrc file on a FTP server for sharing.
>

> Neither Unison or Thunderbird have sharing built in, so do anyone know
> what files to sync (via dropbox, for example) for either to remain in
> sync - I mean syncing filter settings, account settings and group
> subscriptions and read status of those groups?
>

> What is your current plan?

To stick with MacSOUP.
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

[AV3]

I download newsgroups through Thunderbird from eternal-september for
back-up, i. e., for when other sources break down. I find that they take
20-30 seconds longer to download than my prime sources. I attribute that
to their server, and there have also been more occasional outages than
with other newsgroups sources, but not lately. I don't know of any
source that has every newsgroup there is. eternal-september seems better
stocked than many.


--
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., <arvi...@Wearthlink.net> ||
||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., <arvi...@Wearthlink.net> ||
||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/ ||
|| Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso ||
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++

[Wes Groleau]

But in spite of both flaws, I still like Thunderbird. I used a couple
of newsreaders before GUIs were invented, so it's not like I can't.
I prefer shell and Terminal for lot of things, but for mail/news,
I'm content to be a WIMP.

And though I can't remember which, I tried a few other GUI newsreaders
and came back to Thunderbird.


--
Wes Groleau

“What you see and hear depends a good deal on where you are standing;
it also depends on what kind of person you are.”
-- C.S.Lewis

[Wes Groleau]

On 10-24-2013, 13:27, Barry Margolin wrote:
> In article <l49ue7$spn$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:
>
>> On 10-23-2013, 21:44, (me) wrote:
>>> What is missing, in your opinion? Thunderbird looks primitive
>>> "out-of-the-box" but it actually allows you to filter on ANY header. You
>>> just have to add the ones that aren't already in the menu.
>>
>> One thing I _WISH_ it could do is kill any _response_ to some specified
>> troll. It does have a "kill subthread" action in the filters, but then
>> you miss decent posts when the thread drifts away from troll-bashing to
>> legitimate content. Then again, I can't afford the time to read even
>> half of the legit posts, so it's not major.
>
> When was the last time a subthread ever did that? Once it veers onto
> that tangent, I've never seen it get back to the original topic.

I didn't say it drifts back to the original topic. People bash the
troll for a while, but almost all (sub)threads drift--even those that
are feeding a troll.


--
Wes Groleau

Nutrition for Blokes: Re-engineering your diet for life
http://www.phlaunt.com/quentin

[Sandman]

In article <slrnl6ip0p.1...@ID-685.user.individual.de>, Martin Τrautmann <t-us...@gmx.net> wrote:

> > I've used slrn (and tin) from time to time, and always miss the ability
> > to click URL's, which is the single largest problem I have with slrn.
>

> a ctrl-click is not an option for you?

Yeah, it appears that the Terminal app in OSX handles URL's pretty ok.
Problem solved!

--
Sandman[.net]

[android]

In article <lrgi7v$1js$1...@dont-email.me>, FPP <fred...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 2014-08-01 17:15:56 +0000, FPP <fred...@gmail.com> said:

> > I prefer the older version of Unison 1.8.1 over 2. The message list
> > font size isn't customizable in version 2, and it's way too small for
> > my tastes.
> >
> > It's serviceable... but I'd rather give Thoth a better test drive.
> > It's the reader that's most like MT-NW - but they're no longer
> > accepting requesting for registration.
>
> Jesus, I just replied to a post from 2013...

What? Would Jesus do that???
--
teleportation kills
http://tinyurl.com/androidphotography