TechTools nightmare
David Bowers
TechTool Pro, version 2.1.1. After running the default tests, having a few
'minor problems' repaired, I discovered my system (G3 233, 8.5.1) would not
boot unless I turned off all the extensions. Disk First Aid (version 8.5.1),
which I had just run the day before and found no problems, told me
"MountCheck found serious errors" and there were 28 instances of "overlapped
extent allocations" which it was not able to repair (I retried several times
after booting from the emergency CD). Luckily I had ordered DiskWarrior
along with TTool and it arrived this morning having been out of stock
earlier. DiskWarrior rebuilt my directory and found "28 files occupy
portions of the disk occupied by another folder", "2 files with a circular
allocation", "18 folders had an incorrect item count" and several other
problems all of which it repaired or transfered to a damaged items folder.
I spent a while on the phone with Jeff Baudin, a Micromat manager, who
essentially told me that this could not happen with TechTool Pro.
My drive has never given me any trouble, I have never reformatted it and I
have run Disk First Aid on a regular basis it make sure it was OK. This
series of events has left me dumbfounded. How could such a highly rated
program create such damage and how could the company that produced it not
have a clue as to why it happened? I know I will never run TechTool's drive
tests on my machine again!
Gerry
<dwbo...@planetcable.net> wrote:
> I spent a while on the phone with Jeff Baudin, a Micromat manager, who
> essentially told me that this could not happen with TechTool Pro.
> My drive has never given me any trouble, I have never reformatted it and I
> have run Disk First Aid on a regular basis it make sure it was OK. This
> series of events has left me dumbfounded. How could such a highly rated
> program create such damage and how could the company that produced it not
> have a clue as to why it happened? I know I will never run TechTool's drive
> tests on my machine again!
Jeff says this could not be a result of using TechTool. Was is your
rationale for thinking he is wrong?
--
\\\--- Gerry
---------------------------------------------------
American Democracy -- the best that money can buy!
Ray DeGennaro
<sp...@primenet.com> wrote:
+Jeff says this could not be a result of using TechTool. Was is your
+rationale for thinking he is wrong?
Quite simple: The sidewalk was wet
He got rained-on
QED wet sidewalks cause rain.
ray
--
----------
Ray DeGennaro
<mailto:rdeg...@bmsrs.usc.edu>
<http://www-scf.usc.edu/~rayd>
----------
"When I was feeling low, she told me 'Cheer up, things could be
worse'. So I cheered up, and sure enough ... things got worse."
--- Jerome Howard
Dan Hopper
TT Pro. Will not use it again. Have switched back to Norton.
Dan H.
Gerry wrote:
>
> In article <7bmodk$mp9$1...@jupiter.planetcable.net>, David Bowers
> <dwbo...@planetcable.net> wrote:
>
> > I spent a while on the phone with Jeff Baudin, a Micromat manager, who
> > essentially told me that this could not happen with TechTool Pro.
> > My drive has never given me any trouble, I have never reformatted it and I
> > have run Disk First Aid on a regular basis it make sure it was OK. This
> > series of events has left me dumbfounded. How could such a highly rated
> > program create such damage and how could the company that produced it not
> > have a clue as to why it happened? I know I will never run TechTool's drive
> > tests on my machine again!
>
> Jeff says this could not be a result of using TechTool. Was is your
> rationale for thinking he is wrong?
>
Gerry
<d...@natlassoc.com> wrote:
> I reported a similar problem in this forum a few weeks ago. I trashed
> TT Pro. Will not use it again. Have switched back to Norton.
> Dan H.
With or without TT Pro one can trash the disk drive. What I've been
trying to get at, unsuccessfully, is by what rationale *TT Pro* itself
was deemed to be culpable for the screw up.
If TT Pro found a problem and attempted to correct it and the drive is
trashed does that mean TT Pro ineffectively dealt with what was
*already* a problem? Of that it found nothing wrong, decided something
*was* wrong and then scrambled the drive attempting to fix it?
Or any other of various reasonings that might be applicable.
If TT Pro periodically trashed discs that were it 100% good health, why
have more complaints not been raised. I've run this many times over
the past 6 months and had no problems.
I *DID* incidentally have my disc drive go bonkers after Norton found a
problem and corrected it. This was a year ago and I had used Norton
and the same drive many many times without problems.
I corrected the difficulty manually (from back-ups) and all was fine.
I mean by that that I *continued* using Norton with no ill effects.
I bought TT Pro when the HFS+ craziness went down with Norton 4.0.
I've had no problems with either since.
josie
I have recently completed tests on the efficiency of both TechTool Pro v2 and Norton Utilities v 4.
What TechTool Pro does that Norton does not do is this:
TTP analyses the internal structure of the Desktop database file for consistency and correctness whereas Norton does not.
The DDB is at the base of the Finder's functionality, and that is what it uses to construct the Desktop display and functionality of the desktop.
The only thing that I regret about TechTool Pro is that I believe the error lies in one basic fact:
Any repairs to the Finder MUST be done from another drive - other than the hard disk.
You cannot repair the Finder on the drive that you're running from - and herein lies the bug, and it is a bug because we are led to believe that we can fix the Finder using TTP launched from the drive where the problem exists i.e. the hard disk.
The bug is that TTP allows the user access to functionality that shouldn't be allowed, because it's not going to work, because you have to issue that command from another drive - in other words, that command should be greyed out.
The workaround for all of this is to use TTP from the CD - and to drag the TTP application onto a floppy disk then throw the TTP application on the hard disk into the Trash.
That way, you could use TTP from either the CD or floppy, because all of the other CDEVs are already installed into your System Folder.
TechTool Pro is a brilliant utility for the Mac, that's why it gets such a high rating - maybe the company will issue a statement about not running the app from the hard disk, soon - or eliminate the application installed to the hard disk altogether (just the CDEVs, Techtool protection extension etc installed), and include a floppy disk as part of the product package. That way none of these problems would happen.
The user manual could also have updated screen grabs that include "Optimisation" in the list under "Expert User" - Optimisation is not addressed in the manual at all - and just one or two pages on the Basic Interface would have been nice, too.
Run TechTool Pro from the CD and you should be okay.
Josie
------------------------------------reply separator---------------------------
Dan Hopper wrote:
I reported a similar problem in this forum a few weeks ago. I trashed
TT Pro. Will not use it again. Have switched back to Norton.
Dan H.
Gerry wrote:
>
> In article <7bmodk$mp9$1...@jupiter.planetcable.net>, David Bowers
> <dwbo...@planetcable.net> wrote:
>
> > I spent a while on the phone with Jeff Baudin, a Micromat manager, who
> > essentially told me that this could not happen with TechTool Pro.
> > My drive has never given me any trouble, I have never reformatted it and I
> > have run Disk First Aid on a regular basis it make sure it was OK. This
> > series of events has left me dumbfounded. How could such a highly rated
> > program create such damage and how could the company that produced it not
> > have a clue as to why it happened? I know I will never run TechTool's drive
> > tests on my machine again!
>
> Jeff says this could not be a result of using TechTool. Was is your
> rationale for thinking he is wrong?
>
Mark Warner
>
What TechTool Pro does that Norton does not do is this:
>
> error lies in one basic fact:
>
> Any repairs to the Finder MUST be done from another drive - other than
> the hard disk.
>
> You cannot repair the Finder on the drive that you're running from -
> and herein lies the bug, and it is a bug because we are led to believe
> that we can fix the Finder using TTP launched from the drive where the
> problem exists i.e. the hard disk.
Doesn't TT tell you this when it finds problems with your hd? I just
had TT fix my hd woes, and it specifically told me that I would need to
repair them via the cd..just like DFA telling you it won't be able to
make any repairs to an active startup disk. I did not think there was
any way to override this function.
josie farmer
> josie wrote:.
> >
> What TechTool Pro does that Norton does not do is this:
> >
> > The only thing that I regret about TechTool Pro is that I believe the
> > error lies in one basic fact:
> >
> > Any repairs to the Finder MUST be done from another drive - other than
> > the hard disk.
> >
> > You cannot repair the Finder on the drive that you're running from -
> > and herein lies the bug, and it is a bug because we are led to believe
> > that we can fix the Finder using TTP launched from the drive where the
> > problem exists i.e. the hard disk.
>
> Doesn't TT tell you this when it finds problems with your hd? I just
> had TT fix my hd woes, and it specifically told me that I would need to
> repair them via the cd..just like DFA telling you it won't be able to
> make any repairs to an active startup disk. I did not think there was
> any way to override this function.
Yes, TT tells you when it finds errors with the Finder on your HD, but then
gives the user the option to fix or fix all - not very helpful, especially to
the new user.
Shalom Avital
that has to be treated. I keep TTP2 on a startup ZIP disk, and use it
periodically or as required with a desktop PM6500 or a PB G3 Series.
I've never had the slightest problem.
For me, the advantage of running TTP2 from the startup ZIP disk, is that
the same ZIP contains other utilities why I might want to use. The ZIP
also serves as an emergency statup disk.
josie
I have come back to apologise for an erraneous piece of info that I gave
previously and which has been brought to my attention this evening by Martin S.
Zibulsky:
Hi Martin,
Nice to hear from you, and a nice friendly mail. Refreshing change, Martin.
Now, the speed disk from Norton is much preferred to the Optimisation from TTP -
the latter being EXTREMELY slow - although accurate in that both apps give
exactly the same number of fragmentations.
Am just going to check what I read in the TTP2 Manual about the floppy thing -
BRB -
Okay, once again I have been proved wrong - and all because of erraneous
information from the TTP2 manual.
I swear that this manual is an old one - on page 5 under the TechTool parts it
says (about TachTool Pro app) - quote "this is the only element necessary to run
the program, so if you wish to carry a copy on a floppy disk, this would be the
only piece that you absolutely need".
This info in the manual is very out of date, and I apologise for quoting from
it.
As you correctly mentioned Martin, the TTP2 app is indeed 3.5 Mb and so cannot
fit onto a floppy, as is advised in the manual that comes with TTP2 - so I guess
the answer is to have the TTP2 on a zip or other disk, and run the app from
there.
Actually, I have a boot zip disk with sys 8.1 on it - taks 70Mb and then I
installed TTP2 onto there completely (not just the app) so am well prepared, in
case of emergency!
Do keep me informed of any stuff that is interesting on this subject, always
good to hear from you.
All Best Wishes,
Josie Farmer
PS - what is AMUG? I am chairperson of CMUG - http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~cumbmac
"Martin S. Zibulsky" wrote:
Josie Farmer wrote:
> >The workaround for all of this is to use TTP from the CD - and drag the TTP
> application onto a floppy disk then throw the TTP application on the hard disk
> into the trash.
>
> >That way you could use TTP from either the CD or floppy, because all of the
> CDEVs are already installed into your System Folder.
>
> Hi Josie:
>
> Great idea! I run Norton's Disk Doctor 3.5.2, also Speed Disk 3.5.2 that
> way, from a startup floppies I made...for the same reasons. Will probably
> do same when NUM 4.0.3 CD arrives here next week...if I can get the
> necessary ingredients to fit on the floppies. Speed disk, no problem, but
> the Doctor is questionable.
>
> I already have Techtool Pro 2x on a couple startup Zip Disks and a
> Syquest Startup Cartridge. Your post reminded me to do so, or check that
> it was previously done.
> However, this leads to my question on the other part of your idea. How
> does one get TechTool Pro 2x application to fit (uncompressed) and
> operate from a floppy, when the application itself is 3.5 mb???
>
> Regards,
> Martin Zibulsky
Shalom Avital wrote:
> I second the motion: I've *never* tried to use TTP2 from the same drive
> that has to be treated. I keep TTP2 on a startup ZIP disk, and use it
> periodically or as required with a desktop PM6500 or a PB G3 Series.
> I've never had the slightest problem.
> For me, the advantage of running TTP2 from the startup ZIP disk, is that
> the same ZIP contains other utilities why I might want to use. The ZIP
> also serves as an emergency statup disk.
>
> josie wrote:
> >
