Apple Mail for Earthlink and Gmail users

[Patty Winter]

A few months ago, I got some help (I think the .apps group, although
I can't find the thread on Google's archive) for a friend who is having
horrible spam and full-mailbox problems on Earthlink. Folks here suggested
that she switch to Gmail. She tried that but says the messages weren't
getting forwarded properly from Earthlink, which she needs to do for a
while until she can notify people of her new address.

Meanwhile, another friend switched from Earthlink to AT&T for her Internet
service and switched her email from Earthlink to Gmail. But she isn't
really happy with the latter, either.

Friend A has a Windows laptop and an iPhone. Friend B has an iMac and
will soon be getting an iPhone.

Could both of them switch to Apple Mail? I realize that Friend A can't
use the actual Mail app on her laptop, but she could access Apple-based
mail via iCloud, right? Meanwhile, she could run Mail on her iPhone.
Friend B could run Mail on her iMac and later on her iPhone.

If Friend A uses IMAP to send her incoming mail from Earthlink to her
iPhone, will that happen before or after Earthlink's spam filtering?
She thinks they're letting spam through (about 50 messages a day) to
fill up her mailbox so she'll have to buy more mailbox capacity. I
have no idea why she's getting so much spam when my other friend said
she hardly got any when she was on Earthlink. I would just like to find
good email solutions for both of them.


Patty

[Lewis]

In message <o6oa9c$avd$1...@dont-email.me> Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
> A few months ago, I got some help (I think the .apps group, although
> I can't find the thread on Google's archive) for a friend who is having
> horrible spam and full-mailbox problems on Earthlink. Folks here suggested
> that she switch to Gmail. She tried that but says the messages weren't
> getting forwarded properly from Earthlink, which she needs to do for a
> while until she can notify people of her new address.

Earthlink does POP and gmail will check any pop mailbox, so there is no
reason, other tan someone screwing up the setup, that all the messages
would not be on gmail.

> Could both of them switch to Apple Mail? I realize that Friend A can't
> use the actual Mail app on her laptop, but she could access Apple-based
> mail via iCloud, right? Meanwhile, she could run Mail on her iPhone.
> Friend B could run Mail on her iMac and later on her iPhone.

Apple Mail supports gmail, yes.

> If Friend A uses IMAP to send her incoming mail from Earthlink to her
> iPhone,

No, that is not how things work. IMAP doesn't send anything anywhere.

> will that happen before or after Earthlink's spam filtering?

Only Earthlink can answer that, and last I checked Earthlink did not
support IMAP. Did they finally get around to joining the 21st century?

> She thinks they're letting spam through (about 50 messages a day) to
> fill up her mailbox so she'll have to buy more mailbox capacity.

That does sound like something Earthlink would do.

> have no idea why she's getting so much spam when my other friend said
> she hardly got any when she was on Earthlink. I would just like to find
> good email solutions for both of them.

Gmail has excellent filtering. Have gmail use POP3 to get the mail from
Earthlink. Magic happens.


> Patty



--
When someone is impatient and says, "I haven't got all day," I always
wonder, How can that be? How can you not have all day?

[Happy.Hobo]

On 1/30/17 10:44 PM, Lewis wrote:
> Earthlink does POP and gmail will check any pop mailbox, so there is no
> reason, other tan someone screwing up the setup, that all the messages
> would not be on gmail.

GMail is known for blocking domains that send a lot of spam.
If she is forwarding everything, including spam, that would explain
not seeing any of it.

Because of this, my provider won't allow me to weaken the spam filter on
any address I forward to GMail.

[David Ritz]

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On Monday, 30 January 2017 21:44 -0000,
in article <slrno8vd1n....@snow.local>,

Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>> If Friend A uses IMAP to send her incoming mail from Earthlink to
>> her iPhone,

> No, that is not how things work. IMAP doesn't send anything anywhere.

>> will that happen before or after Earthlink's spam filtering?

Earthlink's spam and virus filtering settings are available via their
webmail interface.

> Only Earthlink can answer that, and last I checked Earthlink did not
> support IMAP. Did they finally get around to joining the 21st
> century?

Earthlink made IMAP available to their users a while ago, on port 143
with SSL. (Yes, I know that IMAPS is designated on port 993, but
Earthlink isn't using it.)

$ dig +short imap.earthlink.net
209.86.93.191

Earthlink users should be sending via smtpauth.earthlink.net, with
SSL/TLS.

$ dig +short smtpauth.earthlink.net
207.69.189.201
207.69.189.202
207.69.189.203
207.69.189.204
207.69.189.205
207.69.189.206
207.69.189.207
207.69.189.208
207.69.189.209
207.69.189.210

>> She thinks they're letting spam through (about 50 messages a day)
>> to fill up her mailbox so she'll have to buy more mailbox capacity.

> That does sound like something Earthlink would do.

It sounds more likely that she has Earthlink's spam filtering turned
off. (I do too, but I prefer to control my own draconian spam
filtering.)

>> have no idea why she's getting so much spam when my other friend
>> said she hardly got any when she was on Earthlink. I would just
>> like to find good email solutions for both of them.

> Gmail has excellent filtering. Have gmail use POP3 to get the mail
> from Earthlink. Magic happens.

- --
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com>
Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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[Patty Winter]

In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1...@mako.ath.cx>,

David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>On Monday, 30 January 2017 21:44 -0000,
> in article <slrno8vd1n....@snow.local>,
> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>
>>> will that happen before or after Earthlink's spam filtering?
>
>Earthlink's spam and virus filtering settings are available via their
>webmail interface.

So if those aren't working well, her EL mailbox might still fill up
before the mail is forwarded elsewhere? There's no way to forward
the mail just as it comes in to EL?

>>> She thinks they're letting spam through (about 50 messages a day)
>>> to fill up her mailbox so she'll have to buy more mailbox capacity.
>
>> That does sound like something Earthlink would do.
>
>It sounds more likely that she has Earthlink's spam filtering turned
>off. (I do too, but I prefer to control my own draconian spam
>filtering.)

She claims she has it set to the highest level, including requiring
affirmative responses from new correspondents.

>> Gmail has excellent filtering. Have gmail use POP3 to get the mail
>> from Earthlink. Magic happens.

I assume that was what she was doing with Gmail, but I'll check again.


Patty

[David Ritz]

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On Tuesday, 31 January 2017 05:22 -0000,
in article <o6p6vb$o37$1...@dont-email.me>,

Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:

> In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1...@mako.ath.cx>,
> David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:

>> On Monday, 30 January 2017 21:44 -0000,
>> in article <slrno8vd1n....@snow.local>,
>> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>>>> will that happen before or after Earthlink's spam filtering?

>> Earthlink's spam and virus filtering settings are available via
>> their webmail interface.

> So if those aren't working well, her EL mailbox might still fill up
> before the mail is forwarded elsewhere? There's no way to forward
> the mail just as it comes in to EL?

Spam is filtered to a Junk mailbox, on the server, accessible via
webmail or IMAP. Its contents counted toward her quota. Has she ever
emptied it?

>>>> She thinks they're letting spam through (about 50 messages a day)
>>>> to fill up her mailbox so she'll have to buy more mailbox
>>>> capacity.

>>> That does sound like something Earthlink would do.

I wouldn't be able to comment, as I disabled Earthlink's filtering
fifteen years ago and haven't looked back. (My problem was that
earthlink was filtering mail with naughty URIs, including discussions
of naughty URIs. Even my own mail, in which naughty URIs were
discussed, could not be white-listed.)

Is she using Earthlink's mail server for storage? If she's trying to
store years worth of mail on the server, she's going to run into her
quota limit.

>> It sounds more likely that she has Earthlink's spam filtering
>> turned off. (I do too, but I prefer to control my own draconian
>> spam filtering.)

> She claims she has it set to the highest level, including requiring
> affirmative responses from new correspondents.

She's enabled challenge/response?! It's a bane on communication. I
invariably and strongly recommend against this practice, as it leads
to wanted mail being rejected. It also requires an affirmative action
by the intended recipient, a point which seems to be lost on too many
users:

1) sender sends mail
2) challenge is sent
3) response is sent by original sender
4) recipient ignores authorization request
5) mail is never delivered

%\

As for moving to Gmail, their quotas are higher than what she's
getting from Earthlink.

- --
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com>
Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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[Patty Winter]

In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1...@mako.ath.cx>,
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>On Tuesday, 31 January 2017 05:22 -0000,
> in article <o6p6vb$o37$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
>> So if those aren't working well, her EL mailbox might still fill up
>> before the mail is forwarded elsewhere? There's no way to forward
>> the mail just as it comes in to EL?
>
>Spam is filtered to a Junk mailbox, on the server, accessible via
>webmail or IMAP. Its contents counted toward her quota. Has she ever
>emptied it?

She empties it multiple times a day. That's what she's so frustrated
about and why she thinks that EL is letting it happen on purpose. She
says that EL allows 500 addresses in the Blocked list and she's already
hit that limit so can't add any more spammers to it.

>>>>> She thinks they're letting spam through (about 50 messages a day)
>>>>> to fill up her mailbox so she'll have to buy more mailbox
>>>>> capacity.
>

>I wouldn't be able to comment, as I disabled Earthlink's filtering
>fifteen years ago and haven't looked back. (My problem was that
>earthlink was filtering mail with naughty URIs, including discussions
>of naughty URIs. Even my own mail, in which naughty URIs were
>discussed, could not be white-listed.)

You mentioned that you disabled EL's filtering, but previously you
said that spam goes into the Junk mailbox. So how can one get all
mail forwarded before EL starts filling up the Junk mailbox?

>Is she using Earthlink's mail server for storage? If she's trying to
>store years worth of mail on the server, she's going to run into her
>quota limit.

I'll ask, but since her mailbox gets filled up so quickly, I assume
that she deletes mail frequently.

>> She claims she has it set to the highest level, including requiring
>> affirmative responses from new correspondents.
>
>She's enabled challenge/response?! It's a bane on communication.

I hate it, too, but she's desperate to keep even more spam out of her
mailbox. I don't know how so much spam is getting to her anyway.

>As for moving to Gmail, their quotas are higher than what she's
>getting from Earthlink.

That's encouraging. Now if I can just find out how to forward all
her EL mail to Gmail without EL filling up her EL mailboxes first.


Patty

[nospam]

In article <o6rnbn$th3$1...@dont-email.me>, Patty Winter

<pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:

> >
> >> So if those aren't working well, her EL mailbox might still fill up
> >> before the mail is forwarded elsewhere? There's no way to forward
> >> the mail just as it comes in to EL?
> >
> >Spam is filtered to a Junk mailbox, on the server, accessible via
> >webmail or IMAP. Its contents counted toward her quota. Has she ever
> >emptied it?
>
> She empties it multiple times a day. That's what she's so frustrated
> about and why she thinks that EL is letting it happen on purpose. She
> says that EL allows 500 addresses in the Blocked list and she's already
> hit that limit so can't add any more spammers to it.

blocking an address isn't going to do jack shit because spammers forge
email addresses all the time.

certainly there must be actual spam filtering. earthlink can't be
*that* shitty.

>
> >As for moving to Gmail, their quotas are higher than what she's
> >getting from Earthlink.
>
> That's encouraging. Now if I can just find out how to forward all
> her EL mail to Gmail without EL filling up her EL mailboxes first.

there is no need to forward anything. have gmail pull email from
earthlink directly.

[Ant]

In comp.sys.mac.apps nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <o6rnbn$th3$1...@dont-email.me>, Patty Winter
> <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:

> > >
> > >> So if those aren't working well, her EL mailbox might still fill up
> > >> before the mail is forwarded elsewhere? There's no way to forward
> > >> the mail just as it comes in to EL?
> > >
> > >Spam is filtered to a Junk mailbox, on the server, accessible via
> > >webmail or IMAP. Its contents counted toward her quota. Has she ever
> > >emptied it?
> >
> > She empties it multiple times a day. That's what she's so frustrated
> > about and why she thinks that EL is letting it happen on purpose. She
> > says that EL allows 500 addresses in the Blocked list and she's already
> > hit that limit so can't add any more spammers to it.

> blocking an address isn't going to do jack shit because spammers forge
> email addresses all the time.

Ditto.

> certainly there must be actual spam filtering. earthlink can't be
> *that* shitty.

EarthLink uses SpamBlocker --
http://www.earthlink.net/webmail/help/earthlink/en_US/spamblocker/ ...
It does catch many spams. None of these spam filters are perfect since
some spams get through even on Gmail that is supposed to have the best
spam filter for e-mails.
--
Quote of the Week: "It is not enough to be industrious; so are the ants.
What are you industrious about?" --Henry David Thoreau
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

[Patty Winter]

In article <010220170320550592%nos...@nospam.invalid>,

And again, does anyone know whether this happens before or after
EL's spam filtering? If it's after, then she'll still have the
same problem of spam filling up her EL account, which will then
cause future incoming mail to bounce.


Patty

[nospam]

In article <o6tl0a$c7n$1...@dont-email.me>, Patty Winter

<pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:

> >
> >> That's encouraging. Now if I can just find out how to forward all
> >> her EL mail to Gmail without EL filling up her EL mailboxes first.
> >
> >there is no need to forward anything. have gmail pull email from
> >earthlink directly.
>
> And again, does anyone know whether this happens before or after
> EL's spam filtering?

who cares. gmail's spam filtering is better than anything earthlink
does. it's widely considered to be the best.

> If it's after, then she'll still have the
> same problem of spam filling up her EL account, which will then
> cause future incoming mail to bounce.

no it won't.

[Christian]

Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:

> >there is no need to forward anything. have gmail pull email from
> >earthlink directly.
>
> And again, does anyone know whether this happens before or after
> EL's spam filtering? If it's after, then she'll still have the
> same problem of spam filling up her EL account, which will then
> cause future incoming mail to bounce.

If GMail pulls the message(s) from the EL mailbox, the usual filtering
was already done by EL.

If EL forwards the message(s) directly to GMail it is EL's decision
whether this happens before or after the usual filtering.

Christian

--
Christian F. Buser, Hohle Gasse 6, CH-5507 Mellingen (Switzerland)
Hilfe fuer Strassenkinder in Ghana: http://www.chance-for-children.org

[Lewis]

1 Spammer send mails.

2 her system replies with "prove you love me" message

3 Message bounces.

4 go to step 2

>>As for moving to Gmail, their quotas are higher than what she's
>>getting from Earthlink.

> That's encouraging. Now if I can just find out how to forward all
> her EL mail to Gmail without EL filling up her EL mailboxes first.

No. Do not forward to gmail. Set gmail up to access her account via
POP3.


--
"I am enclosing two tickets to the first night of my new play; bring a
friend.... if you have one." - GB Shaw to Churchill "Cannot possibly
attend first night, will attend second... if there is one." - Winston
Churchill, in response.

[David Ritz]

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On Wednesday, 01 February 2017 21:46 -0000,
in article <o6tl0a$c7n$1...@dont-email.me>,

Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:

> And again, does anyone know whether this happens before or after
> EL's spam filtering? If it's after, then she'll still have the same
> problem of spam filling up her EL account, which will then cause
> future incoming mail to bounce.

If Earthlink's SpamBlocker is turned on, its action will override the
forward to another address. The same holds true, if Gmail is
configured to POP messages from Earthlink.

If SpamBlocker is turned off, the forward or POP retrieval will take
place, without further intervention from Earthlink.

P.S. My memory failed me. SpamBlocker has its own webmail folders,
which do not appear to be accessible via IMAP. Your friend should
also check to see whether these folders are chock-full, to
overbrimming.

- --
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com>
Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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[Patty Winter]

In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1...@mako.ath.cx>,
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>

>If Earthlink's SpamBlocker is turned on, its action will override the
>forward to another address. The same holds true, if Gmail is
>configured to POP messages from Earthlink.
>
>If SpamBlocker is turned off, the forward or POP retrieval will take
>place, without further intervention from Earthlink.

So she should turn off SpamBlocker and then tell Gmail to POP all the
mail from EL? That will prevent her EL spam folders from filling up?

>P.S. My memory failed me. SpamBlocker has its own webmail folders,
>which do not appear to be accessible via IMAP. Your friend should
>also check to see whether these folders are chock-full, to
>overbrimming.

Thanks, I'll mention that. Those may be the ones she's been checking,
but I'll make sure.


Patty

[David Ritz]

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On Thursday, 02 February 2017 00:39 -0000,
in article <o6tv3t$jh7$1...@dont-email.me>,

Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:

> In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1...@mako.ath.cx>,
> David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:

>> If Earthlink's SpamBlocker is turned on, its action will override
>> the forward to another address. The same holds true, if Gmail is
>> configured to POP messages from Earthlink.

>> If SpamBlocker is turned off, the forward or POP retrieval will
>> take place, without further intervention from Earthlink.

> So she should turn off SpamBlocker and then tell Gmail to POP all
> the mail from EL? That will prevent her EL spam folders from filling
> up?

Yes. Do note, however, spam messsages may be moved automatically to
the Gmail Junk folder, depending on how she's configured her account,
as well as her Apple Mail filters and settings.

- --
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com>
Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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[Patty Winter]

In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1...@mako.ath.cx>,
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>On Thursday, 02 February 2017 00:39 -0000,
> in article <o6tv3t$jh7$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
>> So she should turn off SpamBlocker and then tell Gmail to POP all
>> the mail from EL? That will prevent her EL spam folders from filling
>> up?
>
>Yes. Do note, however, spam messsages may be moved automatically to
>the Gmail Junk folder, depending on how she's configured her account,
>as well as her Apple Mail filters and settings.

Does she even need to switch to Gmail? Could she just set up an
iCloud mail account and POP from EL to iCloud on her PC and to
Mail on her iPhone? (I also see a mention of Microsoft Outlook
on the instructions for setting up iCloud mail.)


Patty

[David Ritz]

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On Thursday, 02 February 2017 03:59 -0000,
in article <o6uaqc$bev$1...@dont-email.me>,

Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:

> In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1...@mako.ath.cx>,
> David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:

>> On Thursday, 02 February 2017 00:39 -0000,
>> in article <o6tv3t$jh7$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:

>>> So she should turn off SpamBlocker and then tell Gmail to POP all
>>> the mail from EL? That will prevent her EL spam folders from
>>> filling up?

>> Yes. Do note, however, spam messages may be moved automatically

>> to the Gmail Junk folder, depending on how she's configured her
>> account, as well as her Apple Mail filters and settings.

> Does she even need to switch to Gmail? Could she just set up an
> iCloud mail account and POP from EL to iCloud on her PC and to Mail
> on her iPhone? (I also see a mention of Microsoft Outlook on the
> instructions for setting up iCloud mail.)

She can use POP3 with her Earthlink account, within Apple Mail, using
pop.earthlink.net:110, to download the mail to her computer and
remove it from the server.

She can use IMAP to read mail on imap.earthlink.net:143 with SSL,
using Apple Mail.

She can use POP3 on her iPhone, but only if she really wants all that
spam on her phone. (I've been unable to convince iOS that Earthlink
provides IMAP service.)

I do not believe that iCloud can be configured to retrieve mail from a
third party server, via POP3. That's a Gmail trick.

- --
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com>
Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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[Patty Winter]

In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1...@mako.ath.cx>,
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>On Thursday, 02 February 2017 03:59 -0000,
> in article <o6uaqc$bev$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
>> Does she even need to switch to Gmail? Could she just set up an
>> iCloud mail account and POP from EL to iCloud on her PC and to Mail
>> on her iPhone? (I also see a mention of Microsoft Outlook on the
>> instructions for setting up iCloud mail.)
>
>She can use POP3 with her Earthlink account, within Apple Mail, using
>pop.earthlink.net:110, to download the mail to her computer and
>remove it from the server.
>
>She can use IMAP to read mail on imap.earthlink.net:143 with SSL,
>using Apple Mail.

She can't run Apple Mail on her laptop computer because it's a Windows
machine. That's why I wondered whether iCloud Mail would be a good
solution for the laptop.

>She can use POP3 on her iPhone, but only if she really wants all that
>spam on her phone. (I've been unable to convince iOS that Earthlink
>provides IMAP service.)

Mail on the iPhone doesn't offer spam filtering like Apple Mail on a
Mac does?

>I do not believe that iCloud can be configured to retrieve mail from a
>third party server, via POP3. That's a Gmail trick.

So iCloud Mail is only for iCloud.com/Me.com/etc. email accounts? Drat.
I did see a mention of Outlook in Apple's iCloud Mail instructions.
If she's comfortable with Outlook, maybe that would be a good alternative
to Apple Mail on her laptop system.

Thank you for all the information, David!


Patty

[nospam]

In article <o7036q$4m3$2...@dont-email.me>, Patty Winter

<pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:

> >> Does she even need to switch to Gmail? Could she just set up an
> >> iCloud mail account and POP from EL to iCloud on her PC and to Mail
> >> on her iPhone? (I also see a mention of Microsoft Outlook on the
> >> instructions for setting up iCloud mail.)
> >
> >She can use POP3 with her Earthlink account, within Apple Mail, using
> >pop.earthlink.net:110, to download the mail to her computer and
> >remove it from the server.
> >
> >She can use IMAP to read mail on imap.earthlink.net:143 with SSL,
> >using Apple Mail.
>
> She can't run Apple Mail on her laptop computer because it's a Windows
> machine. That's why I wondered whether iCloud Mail would be a good
> solution for the laptop.

then use outlook or some other windows email app.

> >She can use POP3 on her iPhone, but only if she really wants all that
> >spam on her phone. (I've been unable to convince iOS that Earthlink
> >provides IMAP service.)
>
> Mail on the iPhone doesn't offer spam filtering like Apple Mail on a
> Mac does?

spam filtering is best done server side so that it's blocked no matter
what mail app is used.

[Patty Winter]

In article <020220171504461371%nos...@nospam.invalid>,

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>In article <o7036q$4m3$2...@dont-email.me>, Patty Winter
><pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
>> She can't run Apple Mail on her laptop computer because it's a Windows
>> machine. That's why I wondered whether iCloud Mail would be a good
>> solution for the laptop.
>
>then use outlook or some other windows email app.

I'll check with her on that. She's been using webmail for so long that
I don't know how familiar she is with mail applications.

>> Mail on the iPhone doesn't offer spam filtering like Apple Mail on a
>> Mac does?
>
>spam filtering is best done server side so that it's blocked no matter
>what mail app is used.

Indeed, but EL's failure to adequately block spam before its servers
forward mail to user's inboxes is what's causing my friend's mail
problems in the first place.


Patty

[nospam]

In article <o704lb$4m3$4...@dont-email.me>, Patty Winter

<pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:

>
> >> Mail on the iPhone doesn't offer spam filtering like Apple Mail on a
> >> Mac does?
> >
> >spam filtering is best done server side so that it's blocked no matter
> >what mail app is used.
>
> Indeed, but EL's failure to adequately block spam before its servers
> forward mail to user's inboxes is what's causing my friend's mail
> problems in the first place.

that's where gmail comes in.

[Lewis]

In message <o6tv3t$jh7$1...@dont-email.me> Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:

> In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1...@mako.ath.cx>,
> David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>If Earthlink's SpamBlocker is turned on, its action will override the
>>forward to another address. The same holds true, if Gmail is
>>configured to POP messages from Earthlink.
>>
>>If SpamBlocker is turned off, the forward or POP retrieval will take
>>place, without further intervention from Earthlink.

> So she should turn off SpamBlocker and then tell Gmail to POP all the
> mail from EL? That will prevent her EL spam folders from filling up?

Yes.

At least three people have told you this, and some more than once.

--
...on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them
unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary. -- James Nicoll

[Lewis]

In message <o6uaqc$bev$1...@dont-email.me> Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:

> In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1...@mako.ath.cx>,
> David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>On Thursday, 02 February 2017 00:39 -0000,
>> in article <o6tv3t$jh7$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So she should turn off SpamBlocker and then tell Gmail to POP all
>>> the mail from EL? That will prevent her EL spam folders from filling
>>> up?
>>
>>Yes. Do note, however, spam messsages may be moved automatically to
>>the Gmail Junk folder, depending on how she's configured her account,
>>as well as her Apple Mail filters and settings.

> Does she even need to switch to Gmail? Could she just set up an
> iCloud mail account and POP from EL to iCloud on her PC and to
> Mail on her iPhone? (I also see a mention of Microsoft Outlook
> on the instructions for setting up iCloud mail.)

The reason to use gmail is because their spam filtering is the best out
there without spending money.



--
Generalizations are always inaccurate.

[Patty Winter]

In article <slrno99eo7....@snow.local>,

Okay. Next time she visits, I'll try to find out more about what
problems she experienced in connecting her Gmail and EL accounts,
and see whether I can't get her to try that again on the way to
switching over to Gmail entirely.

Meanwhile, my other friend has switched to Gmail but isn't liking
it a lot. Since she has a Mac, I could probably get her to link
her Gmail account to Apple Mail. What benefits could I present
to her for doing that? Personally, I don't like web-based email
systems, but I'm not sure what arguments would persuade a long-
time webmail user to switch to a real email program.


Patty

[Patty Winter]

In article <slrno99emh....@snow.local>,

Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>In message <o6tv3t$jh7$1...@dont-email.me> Patty Winter
><pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
>> So she should turn off SpamBlocker and then tell Gmail to POP all the
>> mail from EL? That will prevent her EL spam folders from filling up?
>
>Yes.
>
>At least three people have told you this, and some more than once.

People had recommended POPing the mail, but I wanted clarification
that it would happen BEFORE Earthlink's spam filters acted upon
incoming mail.


Patty

[Erilar]

Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
.
>
> Meanwhile, my other friend has switched to Gmail but isn't liking
> it a lot. Since she has a Mac, I could probably get her to link
> her Gmail account to Apple Mail. What benefits could I present
> to her for doing that? Personally, I don't like web-based email
> systems, but I'm not sure what arguments would persuade a long-
> time webmail user to switch to a real email program.
>
>

Caveat: Mac user since Apple //e.
I've had Apple Mail for several years now, since my first OX laptop.
(Before that I had Eudora, which I also liked) My ISP catches a lot of spam
before it reaches me and I can add to their spam filter. The combination
works for me.


--
biblioholic medievalist via iPad

[Lewis]

That is up to Earthlink and has nothing to do with POP.

--
They say only the good die young. If it works the other way too I'm
immortal

[Patty Winter]

In article <slrno9csvf....@snow.local>,

Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>In message <o75b3o$je4$2...@dont-email.me> Patty Winter
><pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
>> People had recommended POPing the mail, but I wanted clarification
>> that it would happen BEFORE Earthlink's spam filters acted upon
>> incoming mail.
>
>That is up to Earthlink and has nothing to do with POP.

Sigh. I KNOW it has nothing inherently to do with the POP protocol,
which is why I was asking how EARTHLINK handles this situation.
There are people here who've done this with EL and know the answer.
Those are the people I was asking.


Patty

[Christian]

Erilar <dra...@chibardun.netinvalid> wrote:

> Caveat: Mac user since Apple //e.

Muhaha.... The Apple //e was anything else - but not a Mac!

[Lewis]

In message <o76fvb$l31$1...@dont-email.me> Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:

> In article <slrno9csvf....@snow.local>,
> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>In message <o75b3o$je4$2...@dont-email.me> Patty Winter
>><pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>
>>> People had recommended POPing the mail, but I wanted clarification
>>> that it would happen BEFORE Earthlink's spam filters acted upon
>>> incoming mail.
>>
>>That is up to Earthlink and has nothing to do with POP.

> Sigh. I KNOW it has nothing inherently to do with the POP protocol,
> which is why I was asking how EARTHLINK handles this situation.

That is a question for Earthlink, and is irrelevant to what people have
told you to do.

1. Disable all filtering on Earthlink. This included spam filtering, but
also any other filtering rules.

2. Use gmail to access earthlink via POP3.

3. There is no step 3.

> There are people here who've done this with EL and know the answer.
> Those are the people I was asking.

Earthlink has changed their behavior several times over the years. For
example, when I got people off Earthlink to gmail earthlink didn't offer
IMAP.

Someone said that if messages are in the spam folder on earthlink, they
are inaccessible except through the WebUI. Those messages would
absolutely not be available via POP.

--
The Disc, being flat, has no real horizon. Any adventurous sailors who
get funny ideas from staring at eggs and oranges for too long and set
out for the antipodes soon learned that the reason why distant ships
sometimes looked as though they were disappearing over the edge of the
world was that they were disappearing over the edge of the world. --The
Light Fantastic

[Erilar]

Christian <christi...@ghanart.org> wrote:
> Erilar <dra...@chibardun.netinvalid> wrote:
>
>> Caveat: Mac user since Apple //e.
>
> Muhaha.... The Apple //e was anything else - but not a Mac!
>

No, that's what I began with, however. I was just indicating longevity.

[David Ritz]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sunday, 05 February 2017 15:54 -0000,
in article <slrno9eipr....@snow.local>,

Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> Someone said that if messages are in the spam folder on earthlink,
> they are inaccessible except through the WebUI.

I spoke too soon. Messsages which have been filtered by Earthlink are
accessible via IMAP. The view in Alpine, via IMAP:

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Folder-Collection <X>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

INBOX. Known spam Sent Spam Trash
Drafts Sent Suspect Email Virus Blocker

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

With SpamBlocker turned on, these mailboxes will be visiable using
Apple Mail.app, via IMAP, and can be managed from within Mail or any
IMAP mail client.

> Those messages would absolutely not be available via POP.

Only messsages in the users inbox can be retrieved, via POP3. If
they've been moved to a different location, regardless the protocol or
mechanism, they're nowhere POP3 can access them.

- --
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com>
Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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=w00t
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Savageduck]

On 2017-02-05 20:40:00 +0000, Erilar <dra...@chibardun.netinvalid> said:

> Christian <christi...@ghanart.org> wrote:
>> Erilar <dra...@chibardun.netinvalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Caveat: Mac user since Apple //e.
>>
>> Muhaha.... The Apple //e was anything else - but not a Mac!
>>
>
> No, that's what I began with, however. I was just indicating longevity.

Hell! I began with an NCR Century 100, which wasn't exactly portable.
However, at home things got started with a pair of Commodores (Vic20 &
C64), and then an Apple ][e.
--
Regards,

Savageduck

[Patty Winter]

In article <alpine.OSX.2.20.1...@mako.ath.cx>,
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>

>I spoke too soon. Messsages which have been filtered by Earthlink are
>accessible via IMAP. The view in Alpine, via IMAP:
>
>- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Folder-Collection <X>
>- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>INBOX. Known spam Sent Spam Trash
>Drafts Sent Suspect Email Virus Blocker

Someone (maybe you?) had referred earlier to EL having multiple
mailboxes where unwanted mail might be hiding. Looks like my friend
needs to check "Known spam," "Suspect Email," and "Virus Blocker,"
yes? I would hope there's nothing in the "Sent Spam" mailbox.


Patty

[Erilar]

Well, my actual personal experience with computers began via CRT or
teletype machine via phone connection with a university mainframe back in
the 1970s, but I only used a couple programs others put into it 8-) The //e
was the first one I had any control over 8-)

[Lewis]

In message <alpine.OSX.2.20.1...@mako.ath.cx> David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Only messsages in the users inbox can be retrieved, via POP3. If
> they've been moved to a different location, regardless the protocol or
> mechanism, they're nowhere POP3 can access them.

That is not necessarily true. Some IMAP stores keep all the mail in he
inbox and use tags to indicate deleted or spam messages, so they COULD
show up via POP3. That's why I aid if the spam folder wasn't viewable
via IMAP, there's no way they could be available via POP.

That said, it's not usual.


--
My biggest problem is that Steve insists on serving PURPLE Kool Aid, an
I don't like PURPLE <sip sip> Kool Aid.

[Patty Winter]

In article <o75mn6$hm$1...@dont-email.me>,
Erilar <dra...@chibardun.netinvalid> wrote:

>Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>
>> Meanwhile, my other friend has switched to Gmail but isn't liking
>> it a lot. Since she has a Mac, I could probably get her to link
>> her Gmail account to Apple Mail. What benefits could I present
>> to her for doing that? Personally, I don't like web-based email
>> systems, but I'm not sure what arguments would persuade a long-
>> time webmail user to switch to a real email program.
>>
>Caveat: Mac user since Apple //e.
>I've had Apple Mail for several years now, since my first OX laptop.
>(Before that I had Eudora, which I also liked) My ISP catches a lot of spam
>before it reaches me and I can add to their spam filter. The combination
>works for me.

Eudora is not a webmail program, so I don't understand how your
experience with that would convince a friend to use Apple Mail
as a front end for her Gmail account. I had already planned to
mention that Apple Mail can be trained to recognize some spam
that slips through the mail server, but there must be more
advantages than that to using Apple Mail. I've never used webmail
except in emergencies, so I'm not the right person to explain the
advantages of Apple Mail over that.


Patty

[Erilar]

Before I bought my first iPad and also had an iCloud account, I had to use
my ISPs kindergarten-level webmail when I was in Europe, because that was
accessible via browser. It was not a pleasant experience. "Webmail" then
and now varies enormously.

[Patty Winter]

In article <o7ddsd$bi8$1...@dont-email.me>,

Erilar <dra...@chibardun.netinvalid> wrote:
>Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:

[unneeded quotage deleted]

>> I've never used webmail
>> except in emergencies, so I'm not the right person to explain the
>> advantages of Apple Mail over that.
>

>Before I bought my first iPad and also had an iCloud account, I had to use
>my ISPs kindergarten-level webmail when I was in Europe, because that was
>accessible via browser. It was not a pleasant experience. "Webmail" then
>and now varies enormously.

I suppose it does, so I'd be grateful for information from anyone
who has switched specifically from Gmail to Apple Mail. (My friend
has a Mac and is probably going to get an iPhone, so she'll have
Apple Mail available on both.)


Patty

[Lewis]

Apple Mail on the Mac is better than webmail, but webmail is not
terrible (at least not gmail's webmail) and I know plenty of people who
exclusively use it via the web (including some greybeards).

One advantage with gmail via the web is that once you've setup your
rules and your highlights and everything they way you want, all those
settings are the same on every computer.

on iOS, things are a bit different and there are some real advantages to
gmail, especially if you look at some of the other iOS apps. Even
Google's own Inbox can make powering through a couple hundred emails the
task of a couple of minutes since it makes it so easy to archive
messages and has a lot of smarts about the sorts of emails that are not
important.

If your friend is not really a computer person, sticking with the gmail
webmail is almost certainly going to be the best choice.

But there is no harm in setting up Apple Mail, and it might be useful as
a fallback if your friend is ever offline.

--
Suddenly the animals look shiny and new

[Patty Winter]

In article <slrno9m03l....@snow.local>,

Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>
>Apple Mail on the Mac is better than webmail, but webmail is not
>terrible (at least not gmail's webmail) and I know plenty of people who
>exclusively use it via the web (including some greybeards).

...

>If your friend is not really a computer person, sticking with the gmail
>webmail is almost certainly going to be the best choice.
>
>But there is no harm in setting up Apple Mail, and it might be useful as
>a fallback if your friend is ever offline.

Thanks, I'll ask her what she finds dissatisfying about Gmail and
try to determine whether Mail would be better in those regards or
whether sticking with the web interface would do her fine.


Patty

[Erilar]

This might or might not work, but it just occurred to me : she could start
an account with a different address and gradually let every person or place
she WANTS know the new address and gradually close down the one she
doesn't like. It's a workaround rather than a solution, but might work. I
did something similar when I was switching from Eudora to Apple Mail years
ago.

[Jim Gibson]

In article <o7fkbk$t6e$1...@dont-email.me>, Erilar

<dra...@chibardun.netinvalid> wrote:

> This might or might not work, but it just occurred to me : she could start
> an account with a different address and gradually let every person or place
> she WANTS know the new address and gradually close down the one she
> doesn't like. It's a workaround rather than a solution, but might work. I
> did something similar when I was switching from Eudora to Apple Mail years
> ago.

There is no need to change email service providers if you are changing
how you access your email. As long as the new client (e.g., Eudora,
Apple Mail, Microsoft Outlook, Gmail web access) supports the protocol
of your existing email account (POP3, IMAP), you can start using the
new email client right away and keep your existing email address.

You can even alternate using the old and new clients on the same email
account (although your emails will get saved in different places if you
are using POP3 or the IMAP move function).

Most email service providers support both POP3 and IMAP, as do most
modern email clients. I use both in Apple Mail, for example, without
problem.

If you want to transfer old email messages to your new client, then you
might have to do some fiddling.

However, selecting a new email client does not require changing email
service providers and having to notify everyone of the new address.

--
Jim Gibson

[SuperFlyWhiteGuy]

This is exactly what I do. I have an email account at outlook.com but I use
the Mail application (that is pre-loaded on every mac) to access it. I have
never cared for webmail of any soft.

As a side note, I would stay away from gmail, regardless of how useful their
webclient is.... way too many privacy issues with google.