Re: HAH!!! (new mac pro)

[jay birdsong]

"Fred Moore" wrote in message
news:fmoore-AF6B8A....@mx05.eternal-september.org...

Apple's new Mac Pro said to ditch expansions, arrive this fall

<http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57587367-37/apples-new-mac-pro-said-to
-ditch-expansions-arrive-this-fall/>

What is interesting here is you use MT- Newswatcher.

Your link, which is not highlighted after the break, works normally
when I click it without a problem..

Maybe you can clue in some of the inept Dicks on csma who can't seem
to get their MT-Newswatcher newsreaders to work properly? I'm sure
it's a simple setting.

It would be appreciated.

[Fred Moore]

In article <kosovg$1b6$1...@dont-email.me>,

The magic incantation is to enclose the url in angle brackets. Over the
years many of us have tried to get others to use the accepted standard.
So do, some refuse.

--
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool

[M-M]

In article <kosovg$1b6$1...@dont-email.me>,
"jay birdsong" <jaybi...@aol.com> wrote:

>

> What is interesting here is you use MT- Newswatcher.
>
> Your link, which is not highlighted after the break, works normally
> when I click it without a problem..
>
> Maybe you can clue in some of the inept Dicks on csma who can't seem
> to get their MT-Newswatcher newsreaders to work properly? I'm sure
> it's a simple setting.

In MT-NW, to open a link you command-click it.

Is that what you're asking?

--
m-m
Photo Gallery:
http://www.mhmyers.com

[jay birdsong]

"Fred Moore" wrote in message

news:fmoore-E5AC4A....@mx05.eternal-september.org...

Thanks, I thought t might be that simple. We have a jerk on our group
who refuses to use "the accepted standard" and then claims every one
else's newsreaders are broke.
FYI: he does it for the attention.

Again - thanks.

[jay birdsong]

For the heheheh "computer consultants ", without websites, hehehe, who
couldn't figure it out.


"jay birdsong" wrote in message news:kot7ir$jrn$1...@dont-email.me...

"Fred Moore" wrote in message
news:fmoore-E5AC4A....@mx05.eternal-september.org...

In article <kosovg$1b6$1...@dont-email.me>,
"jay birdsong" <jaybi...@aol.com> wrote:

> "Fred Moore" wrote in message
> news:fmoore-AF6B8A....@mx05.eternal-september.org...
>
>

[Nashton]

No

[Paul Sture]

In article <fmoore-E5AC4A....@mx05.eternal-september.org>,

It doesn't work with https:// links though...

--
Paul Sture

[Jamie Kahn Genet]

Sure it does. Why wouldn't it? I just tested a long secure URL in
MacSOUP enclosed in angle brackets. No problem command-clicking it and
loading it in Firefox. But for the life of me I cannot imagine how there
could be a problem. Yet I have tested it just in case the universe has
turned upon it's head. Thankfully the universe is as I remembered it -
right side up :-)
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

[Alan Baker]

In article <nospam-086A37....@news.chingola.ch>,

Yes, actually, it does...

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

[Paul Sture]

In article <1l45r1c.2125zbnoa1rvN%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,

We were talking about MT-NewsWatcher rather than MacSoup.

<http://apple.com> turns blue in MT-NW once you enter the final > and
you can option or command click it.

<https://apple.com> doesn't change colour, although opt/cmd--clicking
does work.

https://apple.com can also be alt-clicked but again doesn't turn blue,
so it's a cosmetic thing.

As a side note, typing a url without the closing angle brackets changes
colour and becomes opt/cmd clickable as soon as you have entered
"http://" plus one character (or as I have just discovered, enclosing it
in quotes).

--
Paul Sture

[Paul Sture]

In article <nospam-B9B14F....@news.chingola.ch>,

Paul Sture <nos...@sture.ch> wrote:

> As a side note, typing a url without the closing angle brackets changes

^^^^^^^^^^^
should read
any

[nospam]

In article <nospam-086A37....@news.chingola.ch>, Paul Sture

<nos...@sture.ch> wrote:

> > The magic incantation is to enclose the url in angle brackets. Over the
> > years many of us have tried to get others to use the accepted standard.
> > So do, some refuse.
>
> It doesn't work with https:// links though...

yes it does. angle brackets are a standard url delimiter. it doesn't
matter what the url actually is. it works for ftp:// and others.

[jay birdsong]

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
news:alangbaker-ADC3D...@news.shawcable.net...

Yes, Alwin, keep parroting that. It will make you feel noticed.

snip dumb cunt sig.

[Fred Moore]

In article <nospam-B9B14F....@news.chingola.ch>,

Well, in my version of MT-Newswatcher the secure link turns a sort of
dark green. The ftp link nospam posted in another message turns bright
green.

[Alan Baker]

In article <nospam-B9B14F....@news.chingola.ch>,

Actually, you can set the colour that NT-NW uses. For illustration
purposes, I just changed it to red, and changed the quoted text colour
to brown.

>
> <https://apple.com> doesn't change colour, although opt/cmd--clicking
> does work.

As you can now more clearly see, MT-NW does change the colour of https
links; although it appears there is no place in preferences where you
can set the colour it uses.

>
> https://apple.com can also be alt-clicked but again doesn't turn blue,
> so it's a cosmetic thing.
>
> As a side note, typing a url without the closing angle brackets changes
> colour and becomes opt/cmd clickable as soon as you have entered
> "http://" plus one character (or as I have just discovered, enclosing it
> in quotes).

And to complete the illustration:

<http://www.flickr.com/photos/23487697@N07/8988248146/>

[Jamie Kahn Genet]

I use both.

> <http://apple.com> turns blue in MT-NW once you enter the final > and
> you can option or command click it.
>
> <https://apple.com> doesn't change colour, although opt/cmd--clicking
> does work.
>
> https://apple.com can also be alt-clicked but again doesn't turn blue,
> so it's a cosmetic thing.
>
> As a side note, typing a url without the closing angle brackets changes
> colour and becomes opt/cmd clickable as soon as you have entered
> "http://" plus one character (or as I have just discovered, enclosing it
> in quotes).

What has colour got to do with being able to be clicked/command-clicked?
The point is long enclosed https URLs enclosed in angle brackets works
to preserve them, while you said it doesn't.

[Paul Sture]

In article <1l471p8.1no0wpyvikj60N%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,

The colour lets you know that MTNW recognises it as a link that you can
click on.

Well on occasions in the past it certainly hasn't worked. Maybe those
were malformed, for example with extraneous spaces or line terminators
within the angle bracket pair.

--
Paul Sture

[Jamie Kahn Genet]

Paul Sture <nos...@sture.ch> wrote:

> In article <1l471p8.1no0wpyvikj60N%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
>
> > Paul Sture <nos...@sture.ch> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <1l45r1c.2125zbnoa1rvN%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> > > jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> > >
> > > > Paul Sture <nos...@sture.ch> wrote:

[snip]

> > > > > It doesn't work with https:// links though...
> > > >
> > > > Sure it does. Why wouldn't it? I just tested a long secure URL in
> > > > MacSOUP enclosed in angle brackets. No problem command-clicking it and
> > > > loading it in Firefox. But for the life of me I cannot imagine how there
> > > > could be a problem. Yet I have tested it just in case the universe has
> > > > turned upon it's head. Thankfully the universe is as I remembered it -
> > > > right side up :-)
> > >
> > > We were talking about MT-NewsWatcher rather than MacSoup.
> >
> > I use both.
> >
> > > <http://apple.com> turns blue in MT-NW once you enter the final > and
> > > you can option or command click it.
> > >
> > > <https://apple.com> doesn't change colour, although opt/cmd--clicking
> > > does work.
> > >
> > > https://apple.com can also be alt-clicked but again doesn't turn blue,
> > > so it's a cosmetic thing.
> > >
> > > As a side note, typing a url without the closing angle brackets changes
> > > colour and becomes opt/cmd clickable as soon as you have entered
> > > "http://" plus one character (or as I have just discovered, enclosing it
> > > in quotes).
> >
> > What has colour got to do with being able to be clicked/command-clicked?
> > The point is long enclosed https URLs enclosed in angle brackets works
> > to preserve them, while you said it doesn't.
>
> The colour lets you know that MTNW recognises it as a link that you can
> click on.

I get that. But colors was not the topic, or if it was everyone else
thought it was about preserving long URLs.

> Well on occasions in the past it certainly hasn't worked. Maybe those
> were malformed, for example with extraneous spaces or line terminators
> within the angle bracket pair.

*shrug* Why not type it in and see?

[David Ritz]

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On Monday, 10 June 2013 01:51 +1200,
in article <1l487pd.v2cav91l0dn1lN%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,

Jamie Kahn Genet <jam...@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:

> I get that. But colors was not the topic, or if it was everyone else
> thought it was about preserving long URLs.

I haven't been following this thread. I just happened to notice this
exchange.

Preserving long URLs in MT-NewsWatcher is a very simple and straight
forward matter. In MT-NW, open Preferences and select Message
options. Turn off Wrap text, while making sure that the Wrap width is
something sane -- less than 77 columns.

Now, when composing a message, manually select and wrap long lines
(command-\), making certain you are not wrapping the long URLs you
want to preserve.

While I haven't used MT-NW frequently, within the past ten or more
years, I turned automatic line wrapping off in about 1996 or 1997, in
whatever flavor of NewsWatcher I was using at the time.
MT-NewsWatcher remains configured in this manner, locally.

- --
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com>
Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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[Jamie Kahn Genet]

David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:

> On Monday, 10 June 2013 01:51 +1200,
> in article <1l487pd.v2cav91l0dn1lN%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
> Jamie Kahn Genet <jam...@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
>
> > I get that. But colors was not the topic, or if it was everyone else
> > thought it was about preserving long URLs.
>
> I haven't been following this thread. I just happened to notice this
> exchange.
>
> Preserving long URLs in MT-NewsWatcher is a very simple and straight
> forward matter. In MT-NW, open Preferences and select Message
> options. Turn off Wrap text, while making sure that the Wrap width is
> something sane -- less than 77 columns.
>
> Now, when composing a message, manually select and wrap long lines
> (command-\), making certain you are not wrapping the long URLs you
> want to preserve.
>
> While I haven't used MT-NW frequently, within the past ten or more
> years, I turned automatic line wrapping off in about 1996 or 1997, in
> whatever flavor of NewsWatcher I was using at the time.
> MT-NewsWatcher remains configured in this manner, locally.
>
> - --
> David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com>

[snip]

Or simply enclose the long URL in angle brackets, and leave it up to
others to use Usenet clients that take notice of RFC'ed conventions such
as this that have been around for decades.

[Alan Baker]

In article <1l48xnd.on7wvk3nbcnzN%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,

jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

That's why I do...

...and it makes the trolls crazy.

:-)

[David Ritz]

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On Monday, 10 June 2013 11:12 +1200,
in article <1l48xnd.on7wvk3nbcnzN%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,

Jamie Kahn Genet <jam...@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:

> David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:

>> On Monday, 10 June 2013 01:51 +1200,
>> in article <1l487pd.v2cav91l0dn1lN%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,
>> Jamie Kahn Genet <jam...@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:

>>> I get that. But colors was not the topic, or if it was everyone else
>>> thought it was about preserving long URLs.

>> Now, when composing a message, manually select and wrap long lines
>> (command-\), making certain you are not wrapping the long URLs you
>> want to preserve.

> Or simply enclose the long URL in angle brackets, and leave it up to
> others to use Usenet clients that take notice of RFC'ed conventions
> such as this that have been around for decades.

I gave it a shot, using your recommendations. I began by restoring
automatic line wrapping, specifying seventy (70) columns. The
message I sent consisted of two lines. The first consisted of
'012345789' repeated, without space, for a line of 480 columns.
The second line consisted of an eighty three (83) character URL,
plus inclusive angle brackets, for a line length of eighty five
(85) columns. Both came through hard wrapped to seventy one
columns, although I'd set line wrapping to seventy columns.

It does not appear, to me, that MT-NewsWatcher will preserve long
URLs, with or without enclosing angle brackets, without, as I
suggested, using manual line wrapping and leaving the long lines
you want to preserve unwrapped.

- --
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com>

Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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[Alan Baker]

In article <alpine.OSX.2.00.1...@mako.ath.cx>,

<sigh>

The idea is that the angle brackets will cause MT-Newswatcher to treat
the URL differently...

...it is that by enclosing the URL in angle brackets, well-designed
software will RECOGNIZE the entire URL.

[Jamie Kahn Genet]

FYI - your sig delimiter is broken. It should be two dashes followed by
a space, and then a line break, before your sig's text. See my sig below
as an example.

Now as to the angle brackets - they do not cause Usenet clients
(including MT-NW) to wrap long URLs differently. They do preserve the
ability to click/command-click the URL and have it work correctly,
despite being across multiple lines.

[jay birdsong]

"Alan Baker" wrote in message

news:alangbaker-73123...@news.shawcable.net...

No, you do it for attention.

>...and it makes the trolls crazy.

No - they simply ignore your links and don't bother reading them. In
your pea brain, you think you have "won" "something".

snip dumb cunt sig.

[David Ritz]

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On Sunday, 09 June 2013 23:00 -0700,
in article <alangbaker-6BDA3...@news.shawcable.net>,

Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:

> The idea is that the angle brackets will cause MT-Newswatcher to
> treat the URL differently...

When posting or mailing, MT-NewsWatcher makes no distinction for long
URLs, which have been designated by enclosing angle brackets and
hard-wrap this lines, whenever line wrapping is engaged. Wrapping
these long URLs breaks them and user client applications will only
recognize the one line, beginning 'http://' as an URL.

> ...it is that by enclosing the URL in angle brackets, well-designed
> software will RECOGNIZE the entire URL.

Long URLs, which have not been wrapped and are long enough to be
_displayed_ on multiple lines, are recognized by the user client
application, as the long, contiguous URL they are.

Here's the Fcc from a test I ran on Saturday, which confirms that
MT-NW will break long URLs, whenever line wrapping is applied. In
this case, line length was set to seventy (70) columns, although lines
were wrapped to seventy one (71)..

From: David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com>
To: [redacted]
Subject: test2
Organization: SpamBusters!
X-Pgp-0x1A12DEEB: 9CD0 5537 5C05 4660 38D2 1948 52BC 2999 1A12 DEEB
X-Comment-1: Spam is bad. <http://spam.abuse.net/others/simplespam.shtml>
X-Comment-2: LART a spammer for Dobbs.
X-Comment-3: Invalid assumptions tend to produce invalid conclusions.
X-Meow: yes
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.5.3b3 (Intel Mac OS X)
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 00:24:21 -0500
Message-ID: <dritz-8B22BB.00242110062013@[redacted]>
Status: RO
X-Status:

01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890
12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901
23456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012
34567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123
45678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234
56789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345
678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789

<https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/comp.sys.mac.system
/FYVEcGnruGc>

--
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com>
Be kind to animals; kiss a shark

The line wrapping shown has nothing to do with rendering, only
sending. If you know of 'well-designed' client software which will
recognize a b0rken URL, please share.

- --
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com>
Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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[jay birdsong]

"David Ritz" wrote in message
news:alpine.OSX.2.00.1...@mako.ath.cx...

*******************************************************************

Well, he is the jerk who keeps parroting that "well designed" software
will recognize a "broken URL", but he has yet to name a one.

FYI: he is a well known "computer consultant"! One without a
website.

I would say he is now hiding in the tall weeds.

[JF Mezei]

re: long URLs

With Thunderbird, I use "paste as quotation" . It pastes the URL and
does not invoke line wrapping so the URL is transmitted as one long line.

Thunderbird does not process URLs that span more than one line. I have
to select the 2 lines and paste them in the browser.

[Alan Baker]

Sorry, David, but your post is so jumbled I'm not sure what you're
driving at.

I know that MT-Newswatcher makes no distinction and I know that the
angle brackets are there to cue the software that shows the article to
the reader that the enclosed URL begins in one place and ends in another
and that embedded white space (line breaks included) should be ignored.

That some newsclients fail to correctly parse URLs so enclosed isn't a
MT-NW problem.

Cheers,

Alan

In article <alpine.OSX.2.00.1...@mako.ath.cx>,
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:

[Alan Browne]

On 2013.06.10 18:38 , Alan Baker wrote:
> Sorry, David, but your post is so jumbled I'm not sure what you're
> driving at.

But, but! but.... but! It's cryptographically signed and everything!


--
"A Canadian is someone who knows how to have sex in a canoe."
-Pierre Berton

[David Ritz]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Monday, 10 June 2013 15:38 -0700,
in article <alangbaker-9CC76...@news.shawcable.net>,

Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:

> Sorry, David, but your post is so jumbled I'm not sure what you're
> driving at.

I regret that you find difficulty in parsing proprerly messaging
formatted plain, US-ASCII text.

> I know that MT-Newswatcher makes no distinction and I know that the
> angle brackets are there to cue the software that shows the article
> to the reader that the enclosed URL begins in one place and ends in
> another and that embedded white space (line breaks included) should
> be ignored.

So we are agreed: MT-NewsWatcher will wrap long URLs, breaking them in
the process, when automatic wrapping is turned on. There are
workarounds, to which I specifically referred, in my initial post in
this tread.

<news:alpine.OSX.2.00.1...@mako.ath.cx>
<http://groups.google.com/groups/search?as_umsgid=alpine.OSX.2.00.1306091225310.23458%40mako.ath.cx>
(<http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=137090680100>)

<quote>

Turn off Wrap text, while making sure that the Wrap width is
something sane -- less than 77 columns.

Now, when composing a message, manually select and wrap long lines
(command-\), making certain you are not wrapping the long URLs you
want to preserve.

</quote>

> That some newsclients fail to correctly parse URLs so enclosed isn't
> a MT-NW problem.

Please, by all means, name one NUA which parses a line wrapped URL, as
though it were not wrapped. Were a news user agent or mail user agent
to do so, I'd consider it a design flaw, rather than a feature.

Recall, I'm only asking for a single example.

- --
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com>
Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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[nospam]

In article <alpine.OSX.2.00.1...@mako.ath.cx>, David
Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:

> > That some newsclients fail to correctly parse URLs so enclosed isn't
> > a MT-NW problem.
>
> Please, by all means, name one NUA which parses a line wrapped URL, as
> though it were not wrapped. Were a news user agent or mail user agent
> to do so, I'd consider it a design flaw, rather than a feature.
>
> Recall, I'm only asking for a single example.

a *lot* of software properly handles multi-line urls, whether the lines
are wrapped or split, with or without embedded spaces and/or line
ending characters, if it is delimited by angle brackets.

any software that does not handle url delimiters is broken. it's in the
rfcs.

[Jamie Kahn Genet]

Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2013.06.10 18:38 , Alan Baker wrote:
> > Sorry, David, but your post is so jumbled I'm not sure what you're
> > driving at.
>
>
> But, but! but.... but! It's cryptographically signed and everything!

Which is what breaks his sig delimiter?

[David Ritz]

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On Monday, 10 June 2013 19:59 -0400,
in article <100620131959013222%nos...@nospam.invalid>,

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <alpine.OSX.2.00.1...@mako.ath.cx>,
> David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:

>> On Monday, 10 June 2013 15:38 -0700,
>> in article <alangbaker-9CC76...@news.shawcable.net>,

>> Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:

>>> That some newsclients fail to correctly parse URLs so enclosed isn't
>>> a MT-NW problem.

>> Please, by all means, name one NUA which parses a line wrapped URL,
>> as though it were not wrapped. Were a news user agent or mail user
>> agent to do so, I'd consider it a design flaw, rather than a
>> feature.

>> Recall, I'm only asking for a single example.

> a *lot* of software properly handles multi-line urls, whether the
> lines are wrapped or split, with or without embedded spaces and/or
> line ending characters, if it is delimited by angle brackets.

I take this often repeated unresponsiveness as a resounding, no you
cannot point to a single example. It's the only thing I requested,
yet you have failed to provide one.

BTW -- This discussion has not to with how a long URL is parsed, by
the reading software, rather how the reader might parse a URL, which
has been hard-wrapped by whatever software is sending or posting.

> any software that does not handle url delimiters is broken. it's in the
> rfcs.

Name the RFCs, to which you refer. Again, your repeated claims hold
no water, unless you're willing to back them up with some evidence.

BTW -- I've been using enclosing angle brackets, for URLs, since about
1996. In my case, it was a conscious decision, required by the large
number of user clients which quote using ">", without a following
space. This all too frequently produces quoted URL lines which begin,
">http://". Most software fails, as it should, to recognized this
FUBAR URL mangling.

Thank you for your kind consideration.

- --
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com>

"The first principle of a free society is an untrammeled flow of
words in an open forum." - Adlai Stevenson (1900-1965)

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[nospam]

In article <alpine.OSX.2.00.1...@mako.ath.cx>, David
Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:

> >>> That some newsclients fail to correctly parse URLs so enclosed isn't
> >>> a MT-NW problem.
>
> >> Please, by all means, name one NUA which parses a line wrapped URL,
> >> as though it were not wrapped. Were a news user agent or mail user
> >> agent to do so, I'd consider it a design flaw, rather than a
> >> feature.
>
> >> Recall, I'm only asking for a single example.
>
> > a *lot* of software properly handles multi-line urls, whether the
> > lines are wrapped or split, with or without embedded spaces and/or
> > line ending characters, if it is delimited by angle brackets.
>
> I take this often repeated unresponsiveness as a resounding, no you
> cannot point to a single example. It's the only thing I requested,
> yet you have failed to provide one.

terminal, bbedit, textwrangler, thoth, mail and many others.

> BTW -- This discussion has not to with how a long URL is parsed, by
> the reading software, rather how the reader might parse a URL, which
> has been hard-wrapped by whatever software is sending or posting.

users don't parse urls. that's what software is for.

what users want is a clickable link, without having to reassemble it
themselves.

> > any software that does not handle url delimiters is broken. it's in the
> > rfcs.
>
> Name the RFCs, to which you refer. Again, your repeated claims hold
> no water, unless you're willing to back them up with some evidence.

<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1738.txt>
In addition, there are many occasions when URLs are included in other
kinds of text; examples include electronic mail, USENET news
messages, or printed on paper. In such cases, it is convenient to
have a separate syntactic wrapper that delimits the URL and separates
it from the rest of the text, and in particular from punctuation
marks that might be mistaken for part of the URL. For this purpose,
is recommended that angle brackets ("<" and ">"), along with the
prefix "URL:", be used to delimit the boundaries of the URL. This
wrapper does not form part of the URL and should not be used in
contexts in which delimiters are already specified.

<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2396.txt>
Using <> angle brackets around each URI is especially recommended as
a delimiting style for URI that contain whitespace.

[David Ritz]

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On Monday, 10 June 2013 21:25 -0500,
in article <alpine.OSX.2.00.1...@mako.ath.cx>,

David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:

> On Monday, 10 June 2013 19:59 -0400,
> in article <100620131959013222%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> any software that does not handle url delimiters is broken. it's in
>> the rfcs.

> Name the RFCs, to which you refer. Again, your repeated claims hold
> no water, unless you're willing to back them up with some evidence.

As it's unlikely that anyone participating here, is going to go out of
their way, to provide any specific RFC references, which speaks of URL
delimiting though the use of angle brackets, I looked for myself.

<http://tools.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt>
<quote>
Appendix C. Delimiting a URI in Context

URIs are often transmitted through formats that do not provide a
clear context for their interpretation. For example, there are many
occasions when a URI is included in plain text; examples include text
sent in email, USENET news, and on printed paper. In such cases, it
is important to be able to delimit the URI from the rest of the text,

and in particular from punctuation marks that might be mistaken for

part of the URI.

In practice, URIs are delimited in a variety of ways, but usually
within double-quotes "http://example.com/", angle brackets
<http://example.com/>, or just by using whitespace:



Berners-Lee, et al. Standards Track [Page 51]

RFC 3986 URI Generic Syntax January 2005


http://example.com/

These wrappers do not form part of the URI.

In some cases, extra whitespace (spaces, line-breaks, tabs, etc.) may
have to be added to break a long URI across lines. The whitespace
should be ignored when the URI is extracted.

No whitespace should be introduced after a hyphen ("-") character.
Because some typesetters and printers may (erroneously) introduce a
hyphen at the end of line when breaking it, the interpreter of a URI
containing a line break immediately after a hyphen should ignore all
whitespace around the line break and should be aware that the hyphen
may or may not actually be part of the URI.

Using <> angle brackets around each URI is especially recommended as

a delimiting style for a reference that contains embedded whitespace.

The prefix "URL:" (with or without a trailing space) was formerly
recommended as a way to help distinguish a URI from other bracketed
designators, though it is not commonly used in practice and is no
longer recommended.

For robustness, software that accepts user-typed URI should attempt
to recognize and strip both delimiters and embedded whitespace.

For example, the text

Yes, Jim, I found it under "http://www.w3.org/Addressing/",
but you can probably pick it up from <ftp://foo.example.
com/rfc/>. Note the warning in <http://www.ics.uci.edu/pub/
ietf/uri/historical.html#WARNING>.

contains the URI references

http://www.w3.org/Addressing/
ftp://foo.example.com/rfc/
http://www.ics.uci.edu/pub/ietf/uri/historical.html#WARNING
</quote>

I've attempted to view this text page, using four different GUI
web-browsers, two GUI mailers and text only versions of browsers,
mailers and newsreaders, none of which parse the white space included
samples as complete URLs.

Let me know when anyone can provide a counter-example.

- --
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com>
Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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[Alan Baker]

Sure.

MT-Newswatcher: handles the embedded whitespace properly.

[David Ritz]

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In article <alangbaker-8BEC2...@news.shawcable.net>,

Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:

>> Let me know when anyone can provide a counter-example.

> Sure.

> MT-Newswatcher: handles the embedded whitespace properly.

It sure does. Thanks.

- --
David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com>
Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.


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[Jamie Kahn Genet]

David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:

> On Monday, 10 June 2013 19:59 -0400,
> in article <100620131959013222%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> > In article <alpine.OSX.2.00.1...@mako.ath.cx>,
> > David Ritz <dr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >> On Monday, 10 June 2013 15:38 -0700,
> >> in article <alangbaker-9CC76...@news.shawcable.net>,
> >> Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> >>> That some newsclients fail to correctly parse URLs so enclosed isn't
> >>> a MT-NW problem.
>
> >> Please, by all means, name one NUA which parses a line wrapped URL,
> >> as though it were not wrapped. Were a news user agent or mail user
> >> agent to do so, I'd consider it a design flaw, rather than a
> >> feature.
>
> >> Recall, I'm only asking for a single example.
>
> > a *lot* of software properly handles multi-line urls, whether the
> > lines are wrapped or split, with or without embedded spaces and/or
> > line ending characters, if it is delimited by angle brackets.
>
> I take this often repeated unresponsiveness as a resounding, no you
> cannot point to a single example. It's the only thing I requested,
> yet you have failed to provide one.

MacSOUP handles multi-line URLs just fine - automatically if enclosed in
angle brackets, and manually if selected across multiple lines, then the
multi-line selection is command clicked (when there are no angle
brackets to preserve the URL). Is that the example you wanted? I'm
somewhat confused by your wording, and still wonder what a "NUA" is.

> BTW -- This discussion has not to with how a long URL is parsed, by
> the reading software, rather how the reader might parse a URL, which
> has been hard-wrapped by whatever software is sending or posting.
>
> > any software that does not handle url delimiters is broken. it's in the
> > rfcs.
>
> Name the RFCs, to which you refer. Again, your repeated claims hold
> no water, unless you're willing to back them up with some evidence.
>
> BTW -- I've been using enclosing angle brackets, for URLs, since about
> 1996. In my case, it was a conscious decision, required by the large
> number of user clients which quote using ">", without a following
> space. This all too frequently produces quoted URL lines which begin,
> ">http://". Most software fails, as it should, to recognized this
> FUBAR URL mangling.
>
> Thank you for your kind consideration.

[snip broken sig]

The two RFCs mentioning the enclosure of URLs in angle brackets to
preserve them against subsequent formatting that I'm aware of, are:

<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1738.txt>
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2396.txt>

Likewise several others discussing URL formatting. All easily googled.

Regards,
Jamie Kahn Genet

[jay birdsong]

"Alan Baker" wrote in message

news:alangbaker-8BEC2...@news.shawcable.net...

Hush, Alwin. The adults are speaking.

snip hdcs.

[Alan Browne]

On 2013.06.10 20:59 , Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
> Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2013.06.10 18:38 , Alan Baker wrote:
>>> Sorry, David, but your post is so jumbled I'm not sure what you're
>>> driving at.
>>
>>
>> But, but! but.... but! It's cryptographically signed and everything!
>
> Which is what breaks his sig delimiter?

I haven't been following that thread and the meanderings of it.

The creators of the "-- " sig delimiter considered PGP signed messages:
https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3676.txt .

[Paul Sture]

In article <51b62c4a$0$63706$c3e8da3$1e92...@news.astraweb.com>,

Pate each line individually or together?

I can't remember which browser I was using when Safari first arrived
(Netscape?), but Safari was the first one I came across that would allow
the pasting of a wrapped URL and get it right.

--
Paul Sture

[Sandman]

In article <51b62c4a$0$63706$c3e8da3$1e92...@news.astraweb.com>,
JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

Yeah, thunderbird is crap when it comes to following 30 year old RFC
standards, unfortunately.


--
Sandman[.net]

[Tim Adams]

In article <100620131959013222%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

The basic problem as I see it is that most all newsreaders add some character,
in my case the '>' to indicate quoted text. Once a person replies to a post
with a long url in it, this character is added, breaking the url. it is NOT
a specific issue to MT Newswatcher but ALL newsreaders that add something
to indicate a previous quote.

[Jamie Kahn Genet]

Indeed, that is a flaw in the old fashioned plain ASCII text Usenet
uses. Still, a Usenet 2.0 that actually succeeds is unlikely. There was
even such an attempt once upon a time. Part of Usenet's great usability
is it's simplicity. I just copy, paste and edit such broken URLs by
quoting, or move back to the post that contained the URL originally.

Shame no (to my knowledge) Usenet client authors ever sorted the issue
client-side by trying to recognise quoting characters and spaces, not
only line breaks, in URLs surrounded by angle brackets, and discarding
the unnecessary characters before passing to the appropriate helper app.

But a new more intelligent Usenet app is likely out of the question too.
Sigh, long live Usenet - so much better than web forums - but slowly
fading away...

[Richard Kettlewell]

jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) writes:
> Indeed, that is a flaw in the old fashioned plain ASCII text Usenet
> uses. Still, a Usenet 2.0 that actually succeeds is unlikely. There was
> even such an attempt once upon a time.

Usenet 2 was a collection of new newsgroups and some new rules
(e.g. concerning group creation); it didn’t make any attempt to change
the software. It didn’t last very long.

--
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

[Jamie Kahn Genet]

Thanks for the info :-) Sounds more like it was Usenet 1.01.

[JF Mezei]

On 13-06-12 03:00, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:

> Shame no (to my knowledge) Usenet client authors ever sorted the issue
> client-side by trying to recognise quoting characters and spaces, not
> only line breaks, in URLs surrounded by angle brackets,

It should be noted that Usenet predates the concept of URLs by many many
years. In fact, it predates the internet since it started off working
via UUnet connections.

[Jamie Kahn Genet]

Gee I hope you were not specifically addressing me :-D

FYI - great book to read about the birth of the internet that also
mentions the beginnings of Usenet:
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0684832674/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&cam
p=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0684832674&linkCode=as2&tag=wizardli
ng-20>

[Tim Adams]

In article <1l4d88a.1cuk69sp9ura5N%jam...@wizardling.geek.nz>,

jam...@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

Which is what I do also, if it's needed, but typically it's also what michael
and others bitch about as 'broken links'.